>>Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at
the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of
conversations with spiritually awakening people. I have done over 550 of them now and if this is
new to you, and you'd like to check out previous ones, please go to batgap.com, B-A-T-G-A-P,
and look under the past interviews menu. This program is made possible by the support
of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it, and would like to
help support it, there is a PayPal button on every page of the website: batgap.com. My
guest today is Louise Kay. Welcome Louise. >>Louise Kay: Thanks.
>>Rick Archer: Your welcome. Louise was born in Blackburn, Lancashire.
And if that name, place, doesn't remind you of a song then you have a gaping
hole in your musical upbringing and you need to, you need to Google it, because it was a lyric
in one of the best rock songs ever written. I'm not even going to tell you what it is, you have to
pique your curiosity if you don't know what it is. So but any case, Blackburn, Lancashire is in the
North-West of the UK near Liverpool, which, that should give you a hint And after graduating from
university she worked as an English teacher for 15 years and during this time, began to question
the deeper meaning of life. This led her to the path of spirituality, where she found a strong
resonance with the teachings of non-duality. In, I'm reading this prepared bio but we're going
to go through all this from Louise herself in a second, this just gives you an overview, in
her early 30s, Louise felt a deep call in her heart to visit India where she experienced a
profound spiritual awakening. Shortly afterwards, Louise began channeling and traveling the
world sharing this gift for several years. During this time, she experienced a deepening and
integration of her initial spiritual awakening. And as she opened more to this non-dual truth,
the channeling faded away, and a new form of expression revealed itself from deep in her
heart. Louise now holds group events and retreats around the world and offers Embodied Awareness
private sessions. Her passion is to sit together in presence and hold gentle unconditionally
loving space for all emotions, all sensations, and all experiences which arise in the moment in
order to support the integration of unresolved energies and allow the unfolding of the divine in
all who feel the call. Now, initially Louise said, I don t want to talk so much about my personal
stuff, let's talk about living in the present moment, recognizing our true self, integration
of our emotional traumas, and how the way we relate with our inner - outer experience affects
our state of being. And I kind of pleaded and cajoled her a little bit and said, Yeah, yeah,
we can talk about all that. But let's Can we also talk about your personal stuff? Because
it's interesting. She said, All right. Yeah, we can talk about everything. So, that's what
we're going to do. We have plenty of time. And already a couple of questions have come in from
people in previous days. And, those listening are welcome to send in more questions, and we'll
get into them. Okay, so once, it's funny, one thing I said to Louise in emails prior to, in
previous days was I can't figure out your accent, you don't sound like you're from near Liverpool.
You don't sound like The Beatles at all. You have this unusual accent, there's a little bit of a
sound a little bit like Neelam , who's Polish, and she said, Oh yeah , she said, I've done so
many different things and traveled all over the world and taught English as a second language. She
said, My accent is totally, totally screwed up. But anyway, you've been around that you
just told me you have this beautiful earring thing on Show people that thing it s really
cool. And she said she got that in Brazil, when she was down there Who was it made by?
>>Louise Kay: The Indigenous women in the Amazon. I don't remember the name of the exact tribe
>>Rick Archer: Really neat. So, let's take it from the top and feel free. The way I like These
interviews are very conversational. So you don't just have to respond to my questions. If something
comes up, that you'd like to talk about just, go at it, and don't wait for me to ask, but, let's
start a little bit chronologically and tell us how, like, let me, this is a good opening question
A lot of people I interview, had some inklings, even as little children that there was something
different about them, they were super sensitive, or they had some kind of subtle perception, or
everyone in the world around them looked crazy. Or, they saw they felt like they were in unity
or something, or other, and then that usually faded during their teenage years, and then they
rediscovered it when they got a little older. So was there anything like that for you?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, definitely. I was an ultra-sensitive child.
>>Rick Archer: Were you like Super emotional or How ultra-sensitive?
>>Louise Kay: Like, I wasn't crying all the time, but my parents told me that if they just
said, like, they didn't even need to scold me, if they just said like, Louise, don't
do that , then I would cry and I was also kind of physically sensitive, like, my
skin would like flare up in rashes, if chemicals touched me. So it was like on multiple
levels, I experienced this sensitivity. I was just kind of like very, very gentle
as a child. And it was challenging for me to be around stress, or when people
were projecting anger, it just like, it was like, I felt everything.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: And something in me just felt like
this, this something's not right about this. Just, I didn't know what it was,
but just a general feeling of Doesn't feel right. This isn't how it's supposed
to be. And I was very, very childlike also. And, as the other kids started to
mature, in kind of teenage behaviors, I never really could relate to that. So
the other kids were interested in like experimenting with drugs and alcohol. And
it just didn't make any sense to me. And I was like, at 14 at home and still
interested in playing with Legos, and something didn't like, kind of mature, or develop
in that way. And I never really went through that teenage experience, and then
>>Rick Archer: You didn't miss anything, let me tell you.
>>Louise Kay: And somehow, even into adulthood, something never really kind of matured,
or developed. And this was one of the big parts of my transformation in my
spiritual journey, that it was not just like a spiritual awakening, I experienced a lot of
integration of trauma and I m jumping on now, but we can come back. But, I also experienced
what seems like maturing on a human level, as a human being, and kind of that child
likeness kind of caught up with the rest of me. >>Rick Archer: Yeah. But, you do have a gentle air
about you and kind of an innocent quality I think. So. I think it's and, Christ's famous saying,
Except ye be as little children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. So I think it's good.
I mean, that, most of us got all crazy when we were teenagers, and, in many cases, did a bunch
of damage that had to be repaired later on. So, you were spared that, it seems Congratulations.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, it kind of brought different bunch of challenges with it. But yeah,
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: I think, I can see that
>>Rick Archer: There's an old Bengali saying, which that, If that
if no one comes on your call, then go ahead alone. And, what that means to me is that, if
you have to sort of live a solitary life, because you just can't relate to all the
people around you and what they're doing, then so be it. It's much better to do that
than be a conformist and do stupid things just because everybody else is doing them.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, there's another nice one I think it's Buckminster
Fuller is it? And he says, To be well, to be well adjusted to a sick society is
not a good measure of health. Something like that >>Rick Archer: Yeah, that's a good one.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: I saw him speak one time.
And then there's that Rudyard Kipling poem, To be a man , he said, To keep your head, when all
about you are losing theirs some line like that. So anyway, that's good. I see
it as a blessing personally to To be able to hang on, not through trying
but to spontaneously retain that sort of innocence and purity that you came in with.
Yeah. Which is challenging. I mean, it's a, it's a wild world you know? There's so much
bombarding us, and, like you say you were. I don't know, I kind of feel like the hype
The super-sensitivity was a blessing too because it kept you from bumbling into
stuff that you otherwise might have but, immediately had a reaction. So you recoiled
from it, it sounds like a good thing. >>Louise Kay: Yeah, I, my system developed
like everybody, kind of survival mechanisms and ways to, to Unconscious ways to get through
to survive this challenging world. And through the awakening process, those were revealed
in the light of consciousness, and they started to fall away, because they're not necessary anymore.
My system kind of learned how to, or remembered, how to operate in its natural way.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, that's great. Just a quick comment, which is that, I think some people
systems they're not only very impressionable, but they also are kind of sticky. They retain
the impressions easily and others are more kind of porous, the thing, you feel the thing and it
passes through, but then it doesn't cling to you. Did stuff start happening to you,
which you would now recognize as sort of spiritual awakening, but at the time, you didn't know what in the heck it was?
>>Louise Kay: No, not really that I remember like that. I think in my early 20s, was when
I started to question the deeper meaning and investigate this underlying feeling that I d
always had, that, What's up here? What's, what's the real meaning of all this? What's, what's going
on? What's the purpose of life? Who am I? And At some point, I think, for me, one of the major kind of turning points was that I came across
the book, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. And when I read that book, it affected me
in two very profound ways. The first one was I, for the first time in my life, recognized
that I was able to observe my thoughts. And that created some kind of
separation. And the other one was, I was able to feel and experience for the first
time what he refers to as the inner , the energy body , because he points to these things in the
book. And interestingly, those two aspects now are the things that I focus on in the sessions
and body awareness sessions that I do with people. So that was really a profound stepping stone
in my personal journey, reading that book, and I always recommend it to people now.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, it's a good book. There must have been more developing
before you took off for India What led up to that departure?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, I'm just trying to remember
the kind of the chronological order cause it's quite some years ago now. I
actually came to Amsterdam, where I am now. And I'd gotten divorced. And I came to Amsterdam
for kind of a fresh start. I felt called to coming here. And as this feeling started to grow like
this call to go to India. And I heard about the spiritual side of it, and something in
me felt interested in it. And I, at that time, when I was in Amsterdam, that I also met
my partner Gilad and, in a way he was kind of one of my first spiritual teachers because, he was
much further down the rabbit hole than me, on, at that point, he'd been going to Satsangs,
and doing Vipassana retreats, and he spent two years in India on a motorbike and I was just
like, thirsty for more and he, he really kind of opened the door to me to a lot of
information that I was ready to hear. And then, Amma came to town.
>>Rick Archer: Right? So you're behind me here, huh?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. And I didn't really know much about her but, I felt interested in and,
I went along and that was really like my first taste of India, going there in a huge hall and
they're playing the Bhajans and it's really got this India feel. And, I loved it. And I, I waited
hours and hours. I mean, you've been, you know how it is. And finally, I think it was like 3am I
was in line and I got this hug from her. And it was really strong. It hit me and I felt
a bit like, Whoa, I need to go lay down. And there was this like back room where you could
just go rest or whatever. I think some people were sleeping there. And I just went lay down
on a mat and I closed my eyes. And. And this purple light appeared like a tunnel opening up
here and I felt this rush of energy and then I heard this voice. Go to India, what you seek, you
shall find there. And, I knew it wasn't my voice. And it was only when I, last year went to see Amma
again for a second time that I realized that it was Amma communicating telepathically with me
because she did it again, and I realized. But it was very powerful when I heard those words, like
it struck right in my heart and something in me knew, I have to go. I'd been feeling this call.
And that was like the turning point for me. So >>Rick Archer: It kind of gives me goose-bumps
hearing you say that because I've had so many experiences with Amma like that, where, I mean,
people think, Oh, that's cute. She hugs people. Yeah, I'll give her a hug, she can give me
a hug. But, it's There's something much more profound going on. And the level of insight that
she has, even in 30 seconds of interacting with a person and the impact that that can have
on their lives is really quite remarkable. >>Louise Kay: Yeah. It s Amazing.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay, so that was a wake up call. And. So you managed to get to India?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, I quit my job. I left my apartment. I got a one-way plane
ticket. I didn't know. I didn't know how long I was going to stay or... Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: So tell us a bit about that adventure? Inwardly and outwardly
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, I think India is really something else. And
it's not something you can. Before I went many people who've been, said to me, You know,
you can't explain it, you won't know it. You won't understand it until you've been. And
I was like, What are you talking about? I know what India is like, I've seen it on TV. I
know what to expect. But when I got there, I really understood what they were talking about
>>Rick Archer: I'm curious, as a sensitive person, what was your first impression when you
landed in India and sort of got out at the airport and the feeling in the atmosphere?
>>Louise Kay: Complete and utter shock. Like It's like landing on another planet. It's The intensity is just so overwhelming.
And at that time, my system kind of, hadn t integrated a lot, like, like it is now.
>>Rick Archer: Had not integrated. Yeah. >>Louise Kay: Had not So, for example, if I heard
loud noises it was really overwhelming. Like I would have to cover my ears and
>>Rick Archer: And everybody's blowing their horns.
>>Louise Kay: Like. I've never taken acid, but I imagine that, walking through those
streets of Parrot Ganj in Delhi is like, similar to taking acid. Like the
Rick Archer Sensory overload.
>>Louise Kay: The sounds, the smells, and people coming in your face,
trying to, from all directions, photo, money, trying to sell you something.
I was like in a trance like this. And my boyfriend was just kind of leading me.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that. The reason I asked that
question is, when I first went there, there was that. There's the noise and the dirt,
and the craziness, but there was also something in the atmosphere, maybe I was just a mood maker, or
maybe I was imagining it, but there was something subtle in the atmosphere that I didn't feel
in the West. You. Do you know what I mean? >>Louise Kay: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
There's there's something about India. It's like divinity is in the air.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, exactly. >>Louise Kay: It, it opens your heart somehow. And
there's definitely this magical mystical quality. >>Rick Archer: Some kind
of softness, deep softness. >>Louise Kay: Yeah. Yeah. And
I think it's because it's so ingrained in their culture, and they have such
a deep understanding of these spiritual truths. It's kind of commonplace for them. In a way.
>>Rick Archer: They really do. I've been participating in a webinar with Swami
Sarvapriyananda who's a leader of the Vedanta society, and mostly it's Indians in the webinar,
a few Westerners, but I'm so impressed with a lot of the questions that all these Indians are
asking. They're just like, holy mackerel, they really have this stuff in their blood, you know?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. And you feel it, it's everywhere.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah. >>Louise Kay: I mean, there, you re walking
on the streets, and you hear chants in, and Bhajans, and they're just singing
to pray for the awakening of all humans on the planet and, it's incredible.
>>Rick Archer: Which is not to say that there isn't a lot of poverty, and they're
rip-off artists, and all kinds of crazy. >>Louise Kay: Absolutely.
>>Rick Archer: Stuff. I mean, the whole spectrum of humanity. But there is
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: Definitely a
that element there. That there s >>Louise Kay: It s definitely
a country of extremes and >>Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah.
>>Louise Kay: You just see everything. You see on every corner is just a new shock that you
could never have imagined that you would see it. And I think that's one of the beautiful things
about it, why it kind of keeps you living in the present moment when you're in India.
Because you, you ve got to stay present, in a way because there's just so much activity
going on all around you and so much to catch your attention. It's this aliveness that's there.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned you had an awakening there. What was that?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. So, I went to Rishikesh at the foothills of the Himalaya and I was going
to a few different teachers that are there. And one of the teachers I was going
to was a Satsang with Mooji. And I went there pretty much
every day for six weeks. And one day, I was just following his pointing s. And. It was like the mind was transcended in that
moment, is the best way I can describe it. And after that, I experienced some days of Feeling
like everything was a dream. And nothing felt real. And, things never really went back to
how they were before, after that experience. >>Rick Archer: Yeah, you're already
said. You said, you were already a little kind of spacey in a way. So did you get any more
spacey after that? And did it take you quite a while to integrate or stabilize that?
>>Louise Kay: No. I don't think I became more spacey. I
think the opposite started to happen I think. As more, there was more awareness
and more consciousness in the system, there was More and more clear seeing
of contractions in the body and, unconscious patterns that were playing out.
And there was this real, like, single pointed attitude, or focus, that this is the path of
truth. And this is what is required. And so every little thing that came up, like
everything that triggered the system, was like it was used to deepen, and to
surrender deeper. And as that was happening, a lot of integration and transformation was
taking place. So that space in us kind of became more and more grounded. And the system started
to integrate and become more clear. And I mean, it's still, it's still going on. I.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, I think it's a lifelong process. Really.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. It seems to me that it's infinite.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah, you have a blog post entitled: Challenges:
gateways for growth . So it kind of reminded me, what you just said reminded me of that.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, yeah. And. There s a recognition that When we experience challenges
in life, our mind tends to project that, Life's not serving me or something's going wrong, or
this shouldn't be happening. But really, life is supporting us, because when we zoom out from the
limitations of that little mental box, and we're able to understand the bigger picture that what's
happening is the unfolding of consciousness. Then, from that perspective, there's a
recognition that each challenge is like a mirror, or an opportunity for us to deepen in
presence and, see something where maybe we're acting out some unconscious pattern, or some
unconscious behavior, there is a gift for us in every challenge if we have the eyes to see it.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, one thing that helps me in that regard is that I m more or less constantly
aware that the universe isn't dumb matter. It's sort of the divine play,
everything is permeated with the divine. And so things don't happen arbitrarily or randomly
or accidentally, everything is sort of imbued with intelligence. And every little thing from the
falling of a leaf, to the crash of two cars, or anything that happens is somehow part of this
cosmic dance, and I, in my opinion, everything is ultimately designed for our evolution, for our
growth, even though it might not seem that way in the narrow picture, but in, if we could sort
of expand out enough and see the big picture, we would realize that, all as well, and wisely put.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, and part of our spiritual maturing is when we give up that effort to control
life, and manipulate life, and demand that life be a certain way. And we give over that power to this
divine intelligence, and it can run things, it can run the show, much more efficiently than our mind.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. There's a definition of humility
I once heard, which is that, Humility is the quality of not insisting
that things happen any particular way. And if you think about it, I mean,
people are always talking about, sort of, not acting from ego and letting, Let
go and let God and all that stuff. If you do insist that things happen in a
particular way, then your kind of like, you re not, Letting go and letting God ,
you're trying to run the show and you your own individual intelligence is so limited
compared with the cosmic intelligence that, just throwing a monkey wrench in the works, as
they say, and, I may also ask a little question here that came in. Well, this one relates in a
way to what we were talking about in terms of, I asked you, If you got more spacey? and you
said, No, I got more integrated and in a way better able to interact with things. Someone
named Natalie from the Midlands in the UK asked, I live more and more in a state of presence.
And I find it difficult to take the world out there (in quotes) seriously, which is a good thing
for me. I am joyful, light-hearted. Some people, some people think I'm uncaring, and
lack compassion, when I refuse to join in their stories of fear and victimhood.
How can I best support them at this time? And yet stay true to my vibe?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of fear getting
triggered in the collective right now. And, oftentimes, when other people are experiencing
challenging emotions, like they, they get, their system gets overwhelmed by fear
or anxiety, or anger, or sadness. If we're sensitive, and we're able to feel them,
it can feel uncomfortable in us, and so often the mind wants to change that inner experience and it
says, Oh, this doesn't feel good. I don't want to feel like this. So the way that I want to escape
this feeling is by making them change. And then, we can try to convince them to behave differently,
or try to fix them, or heal them, or change them some way. And really what that is, is just,
an escapism from the experience of the now, and when we are able to fully
surrender to our own inner experience, and open to what it touches in us, and we do feel
other people when they're in pain, because we're connected to them. And so to feel the pain of
another is to feel the pain of me because there is no other. It's all me. And, then we can just
very gently, Oh, there's this Some contraction, there's a tightness here, there's anxiousness
in the belly , be very gentle with that. Our system begins to hold a space of unconditional
love for their system, and their system begins to feel seen and validated. And we don't even have
to say anything. It's all taking place on the felt sense. So, their system can begin to open and
relax, just from feeling the peace that's emanated by us being deeply present and anchored in being.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, look at your experience with Amma.
And mine. I mean, there's somebody who is really anchored in being, you get into her vicinity,
and boom, it shifts your whole awareness, just because it's It s not like she's doing
anything to you. It's just that she creates, well, she enlivens an atmosphere around her
that everyone else kind of entrains with, or aligns with, which is quite transformative. Just
using that as an example of what you just said. >>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: Okay, another question came in that s kind of similar so, let's ask this
one now also. This is from Angela in Inverness, which I guess is in Scotland, right?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: How do you overcome
feelings of guilt regarding all the people suffering so much in the world?
I have felt this since I was a child, and have devoted myself to a life of service to
others as a Nurse, I still feel like I can't be happy when my fellow humans are suffering.
>>Louise Kay: Well, if we're not happy, because other people are suffering, then we re
becoming part of the suffering. So, it's not helping at all. So, the key is to dis-identify
from the thoughts that are running in the mind. And, usually, the thoughts are something along the
line of, There's so much suffering in this world. I can't live with all this suffering. I need to
fix the world. It shouldn't be like this Some kind of negative thread running through it. And
when we identify with that story, and believe it, then it, our system responds to that,
and generates emotions of a matching vibration you could say, so we
start to feel depressed or hopeless. When we begin to dis-identify from the
thoughts and draw our attention back, and recognize that These are
just thoughts passing through, and it's nothing to do with me. I am the open
space of awareness, and sensations are arising in the system, and we gently open to feeling
and allowing the sensations, and we let go of any idea that anything needs to
change or be different than it is. Then instantly there's peace. It's only our idea that, Things shouldn't be like this , when
we believe that, that we start to suffer. And when we're at peace we start to contribute to
the collective peace. Like you were saying Rick, we begin to emanate a peace, and a joyfulness,
aliveness, and others are affected by it. >>Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, I always when that
point comes up, I always think, well, if you can't swim, you're not gonna make a very good lifeguard.
You know? And if you think of it like, if Jesus, or Buddha, or Ramana, or any of these people have
had the perspective of, Oh my God, there's so many suffering people around me. What am I going to
do? I. It's really bumming me out, you know? And I'm getting, I'm starting to suffer too because
of them. Then how much help would they have been? To all the people who came to them?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, so it's really about embodying the teachings
and living it moment to moment, and regardless of circumstance or experiences, because, inner peace
is always accessible to us. When we enquire into our deeper nature. That which is
here before thought. Or, before any experience or before any sensation arises.
Then there's a shift in our perspective, a shift in our attention, where we recognize
there is this background stillness. And that Its very nature is peace. And
there is no separation between that and me , that's what I am . And most of us just
believe that we re the body, or the conceptual self, the story that we told about ourselves.
And that causes us to suffer because we perceive reality through a filter of separation, where
there's me and all the others . And with the simple shift, there's a recognition that, That's
not me, and, I am this formless essence, this infinite spaciousness.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, when I, I was actually going to ask you a
question about this. But when I hear you say that, I very strongly get the impression that you're
not speaking hypothetically. You do have a quality about you that seems very genuinely peaceful
and radiates that quality. So if you could, could you describe your subjective experience,
like right now? What is it like to be Louise? >>Louise Kay: Well, there's,
if anybody really looks with fresh eyes, and honesty, they will discover the
same thing. Because it's the same for all of us. That what is here is awareness perceiving. And the sounds are perceived. And we don't need
to try to hear sounds, it's just happening. All by itself. We can't even stop hearing them.
And images, colors, shapes, are perceived. And it's the same thing we don't need
to try. It's happening automatically. And this body's breathing. And it's performing all
kinds of intelligent functionings all by itself. So, some thoughts arise and pass
through. So, everything is happening by itself. The intelligence of life is dancing. And, awareness perceives that.
>>Rick Archer: Good. So, It's like Eckhart Tolle said in, The Power of Now. And yet, it's
actually, I don't know if I don't know how people take Eckhart Tolle s teachings to heart. But, I
would say that it's not something one should be try- needs to try to do or anything like that it
should somehow, ideally become one's natural way of functioning. But is there a kind of a? Well,
here's a question that came in. How do we get from here to there? That says, people some people
might say, Sounds good, but it's not working for me. I don't sort of feel like I'm, you know, able
to function the way Louise is describing, or the way Eckhart Tolle described. And here's a question
from Rajiv in India, who asks, Is there a need to do any type of spiritual practices and meditations
if there is no psychological suffering arising in a mind body organism? And we could
just modify his question slightly because whether or not there's psychological
suffering, what is your attitude toward the importance or efficacy of spiritual practices as
a way of helping to develop the kind of, the style of functioning that you've just described.
>>Louise Kay: So, I mean, I can just speak from personal experience. To me what
seems to be the key component is a deep interest in awakening, and a willingness to give everything to that. Everything, like
the willingness to die for that, that level of willingness, like, I want this more than
anything else. And that often expresses itself in not a desire from the mind, but a longing from deep in the heart, like this longing for
truth. And it's almost like a yearning quality. And to feel that call to, to
know oneself as God. And, I don't think that can be manufactured. It's like, it just comes
if it comes when it's the right moment. And to, practice as much as possible, living
every single moment fully present, and just perceiving what's here right now. So; the
breath, the sounds, the images, and the thoughts. And whatever thought arises, not to take it
as the truth. To allow the attention to rest as the silence, or the spaciousness, beyond thought. And to become aware of the
inner body, and the, sensations in the body, and whenever there's a contraction or a tightness,
to very gently bring the attention into the body, and just open to feeling it. And allowing it to be
there, being present with it, that allows for the release of unprocessed emotions or blocked
energies from the physical and energetic body. And to practice self enquiry, so to ask,
Who am I? What is it that's perceiving? What is here when there is no thought? What
is it that is aware? Is there any separation between me and that which is aware? What is it
that knows experience? This kind of enquiry. So, kind of a combination of this.
>>Rick Archer: That triggered two questions in
my mind. One is that when I hear people say what you just said, I sometimes
think about the importance of not only, feeling or processing whatever comes up, but
increasing the capacity to do so. And it's like, if you had a cup of water, and you have a handful
of mud and you throw it in the cup of water, it's just gonna be totally muddy. But if you throw
that cup, that handful of mud into an ocean, or a large lake, it has the capacity to
dissolve it. So I think you know where I'm going with this. So what would you say to that?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, so when we start this practice of being aware of the energies is in the body and
present in the body. Often we initially become aware of an underlying sense of anxiety,
that something, that feels uncomfortable, and contraction, or tightness, in the system. And,
when we become aware of it, it can feel worse than when we weren't present in the body, but it was
still there. It's just we become more aware of it. And as we begin to consciously feel it our
system opens up, and these energies begin to release, and usually they release
in layers and the system has a natural intelligence. So, it kind-of knows how
much it's capable of processing at any given time and, it brings some up and then there will be a
release, and then usually a period of integration, which can often be interpreted by the mind
as, Oh what happened to my spiritual journey? I was experiencing so much energies, everything
stopped slowed down. But no The system is processing and it's preparing for the
next deepening or the next level, which is bubbling up. And I often use this analogy
with people, when, I have this program called Integrating Emotional Trauma , it's one of
the focuses of the work I do with people, is meeting these energies and allowing them to
release from the system in a healthy, gentle, loving way. Because if we don't know how
to meet it, it can be really overwhelming. And I often talk about this analogy of a soda
bottle, that if you shake it up, and then you take the lid off, it's just gonna, so all this energy
will just come out and overwhelm the system. When we're in tune with the system and the
body's natural intelligence, we can turn the lid a little bit, and then some energy releases.
And then we wait and turn it a little bit more and it releases in a healthy, gradual, natural
way. So I tell people, Don't be in a rush to get to that end point. It's not
about getting to the end point. When, I'm healed, or everything's fixed or
this energy is released , it's, that s another trap of the mind that, I'm awakened
when such and such happens. The recognition of our true nature is
instantaneous. When there's that shift in the focus of attention to the background
Stillness I am that , and there's peace. And from there, we begin to include the
sensations to allow for the integration and the release of trauma on the human level.
>>Rick Archer: Do you think there is an endpoint? Have you reached an endpoint?
>>Louise Kay: No. My sense is that the formless and the form are both
infinite in nature. And once we work through what Eckhart Tolle refers to as the pain
body , and that begins to dissolve, what happens as it's dissolving is, it gets much easier to
meet it, and to be present with the sensations because it's less intense, because the energy
is dissolving. And our presence is deepening. So it just gets easier. And that's a good thing
but, as we move deeper in the system, we start to access ancestral traumas, and collective
traumas. And even past life traumas can start to bubble up. So, it's better to change
the way we relate with trauma, and enjoy it, and use it as a tool for deepening in presence, rather
than trying to get rid of it and get to the end. >>Rick Archer: Yeah, I agree.
And I think there is an end but, and like you said, it doesn't mean you can't
enjoy your true nature. But that also doesn't mean you're perfect, if there is such a thing, or
that there isn't going to be ongoing purification, and integration, and growth, of in various ways.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, to me, our true nature is divine perfection. It's all that is.
It s the formless essence that animates all form. And its oneness, it s connected, it's
unconditional love, it s peace, it s beauty, and We're also this temporary expression of
form, which is imperfectly perfect. And there's always room for improvement. We can
always become kinder, more compassionate, more loving, more gentle on that level.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, that, I forget exactly how it went. But there was some Zen
monk or teacher who's said to his students, You're all perfect just the way you
are. And you can all use improvement. A little earlier you were saying how,
it's important that our desire for this be top priority, we'd be willing
to die for it or whatever. So this is kind of a dumb question but,
so, does that mean everybody should quit their jobs and go to India and get a
nanny for the kids and, just take off? >>Louise Kay: It's not a
prerequisite to go to India for this. Awakening can happen anywhere. And in any
situation. So, it's more about our inner state of being, and, where, every single moment, wherever
we are, whoever we're with, whatever we're doing, giving our attention to that. And the primary focus is within.
>>Rick Archer: What if you're a Surgeon, or, an Airline
Pilot or something, and your job demands, really intense focus People's lives depend
on it Can you do that and still have your primary focus be within, without
diminishing your focus on the task at hand? >>Louise Kay: Absolutely, it's not that
when we become fully present in this moment, and fully aware of our inner experience that we
become like a zombie. Actually, we become much more efficient because our energy is not being
wasted on thinking about conversations that we had with our husband or wife this morning, or what
I'm going to do after the surgery is finished, we re more distracted then It brings us fully present
into the now. And, in that, we become connected to the universal intelligence. We become part of
that unified field. So, it's more important, and they will become much more efficient.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, there's a verse in the Bhagavad Gita, which is, Yoga is skill action.
And what is meant by yoga there is not the physical postures, but being in union with the
divine results in greater efficiency and skill in our active life.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, because then our actions don't come from the
conditioned behaviors, and the egoic self, but they're born from a deeper wisdom, the
words that we speak arise from the silence, and the actions that arise, are actions that
are beneficial to the whole and are in harmony with that unified nature. So we contribute
to, positively, to the collective field rather than creating more stress and chaos.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, good. Question came in from Dan, in London, who asks, Would you be able to
describe the difference between compassion and being sorry, or pivot- or pitying people? How
can one be compassionate without themselves suffering? Similar to that other question, but
it perhaps, is asking for a bit of elaboration. >>Louise Kay: So if we pity someone, then
usually there's a story running in a mind. Like, Oh, poor them, they, they're
suffering. And there's, we're perceiving this moment through a filter of that story.
And we're experiencing the other person as a concept, as a story in our mind, that, This
happened to them, and now they're suffering. When we become deeper in presence, and
we're more in tune with this unified field. Then we begin to feel people from
a deeper level, and relate to them from that deeper level where, it's not a
conceptual self Louise relating with a conceptual self Rick , but there's me , experiencing myself
in another physical form, looking back at myself and enjoying the beauty of seeing myself
in another form. And, that opens us up to this flow of unconditional love. And the
compassion is a result of this opening and relating on a deeper level rather than from
the mental conceptual level where everything is perceived through filters of separation.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. That's nice. Jesus said, Love your neighbor as yourself.
And you have a blog post, entitled Seeing The Divine - You can see everyone's true
being if you look with the right eyes. >>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: Let's loop back a little
bit to your personal story. At a certain point channeling
started happening. I don't think you tried to develop it or something, it just
started happening. So, let's talk a little bit about that episode, or that period of your life.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. So, that was after I'd been to India and experienced this non-dual awakening in
Mooji s satsang. There was a recognition that, It's not true to go back to my old life ,
and just, there was no question I wasn't going back to teaching. And my money started
running out and there was a realization, Okay, well, so What am I going
to do now? . And there was a clear feeling in the heart that, of wanting to allow this divine intelligence to use this
physical expression for whatever it wanted. I was totally open. And, that was the only
thing that I wanted really. I kind of gave up the personal desire and said, Okay, just your
will is, is I ve forgotten the second half of that quote. Can you finish it for me?
>>Rick Archer: Thy will be done? That kind of a thing?
>>Louise Kay: Thy will be done . Yeah. And, I made a prayer. And in this prayer, which
just really came from my heart, like, Please, just speaking to the intelligence of life,
please use me or show me what you want. And if it had shown me that, Okay, I want you
to , I don't know, Clean toilets for the rest of your life , I had the willingness to do
that. I just didn't care. I just wanted it to be in alignment with that deeper knowing.
And so, I don't remember if it was the next day or the day after, and, I never
really made the connection at the time, it's only looking back that I made the connection
between what happened next and that prayer. I was lying on the bed meditating. And
my body went into this kind of numb state Like, almost like, paralyzation and I felt this this kind of pressure come here.
And it felt like something wanted to come through, like information wanted to come through.
>>Rick Archer: Did it you did it feel like a like a chick was trying to hatch
from an egg? Almost as if there was a >>Louise Kay: Kind of
>>Rick Archer: Pecking from the inside? >>Louise Kay: Yeah, kind of
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: And I had this feeling like if
someone were to ask a question, then this tap could open and it could just flow out. And at that
moment, my partner came in the room. So I was in this deep state of paralyzation where it was like,
I could barely speak and I just kind of whispered, Ask me a question . And he did. He looked at me,
like I'm lying on the bed, What's, what's going on with her? and I said it again, Ask me a question.
>>Rick Archer: He said, what do you want for dinner ?
>>Louise Kay: And he said, Louise, are you okay?
What's going on? So I realized, Okay, he's not going to get it. And I came out of this
meditation. And then I told him my experience. And I said, the next day, I said, Okay,
I'll try it, and see if that happens again, this time, ask a question , and so, I did it
again. And then he started asking questions and this information started coming
through, which turned into channeling. And I was doing that for a few years and
>>Rick Archer: Let me ask you some questions about it. I've interviewed some channelers,
Bashar through Darryl Anka, and Suzanne Giesemann, and Paul Selig, and others, and it's very
interesting. They all take on a different way of speaking as you did when you used to channel,
this, like, it's like a whole different voice, in a way comes through I have a few questions that
I sometimes wonder about, one is, well, obviously, your intuition was opening, third eye, sixth
chakra, the, and, so, one question, these are sort of skeptical questions, but they might help
clear other people's doubts and understanding too, one is, I wonder if sometimes, I wonder if
people are just, who do this are just kind of, tapping into a level a deep level of creativity,
you know? Where you can fabricate all kinds of stories and information, like a good
science fiction writer or something. And, it's not that you're actually channeling
some collective from the Pleiades. But that is the explanation or the definition that is used to give
some kind of context to what you're saying. But it's actually not from these beings, 500 million
light years away, it's, or 500, or whatever it is, it's actually just coming from the unified field,
the field of all possibilities, the field of the home of all knowledge from which all information,
in which all information resides. And you're just kind of tapping into that, and serving as a
channel for that. That's my first question. >>Louise Kay: Well, ultimately,
everything is coming from that field. Whether it's directly from that field,
or it's through a Pleiadian collective, because where are they getting the information from?
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, good point. >>Louise Kay: That field. And really, there's no
way to know this. I I don't know the answer. And a lot of people asked me that when I was channeling,
like, How do you know that it's real? And I always said, I don't know that it's real. But, I just
invite you to listen, and if it resonates, and you find it helpful, great. And if it doesn't, great.
Rick Archer Good answer. And did you find yourself saying
things that Louise Kay had no knowledge of but they were just coming out all the sudden?
>>Louise Kay: Rarely. Most of the time, it felt like
this this energy, or these beings, I'll just speak you like that, because
that's what felt like It was my experience, It felt like they were using the information
that was already somewhere in the system. And my sense is that, maybe not enough integration
had happened for that information to be shared directly. And so, they were kind
of giving a helping hand somehow when that connection was made. It was able to come through
>>Rick Archer: It's interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, if they if someone had asked you about, Einstein's
second, Field or Theory of General Relativity, you wouldn't have been able to say much, they even
if those beings knew about it, it wouldn't have been able to come through Louise Kay very well.
They had to sort of play with what, what you, what your equipment provided.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, that's what it felt like, like they could use what was here.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: And they were coming through this.
So for the most part, there are a few cases when little bits came through.
>>Rick Archer: So obviously you wouldn t of been able to channel in Japanese
or something but you had to use Your instrument wasn't designed for that.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: Yeah, okay. Those who are
listening to this, if you have any more questions about channeling feel free to send
them in too. What else was I wondering about it? Why this Why the change in tone of voice? Why do
channelers sound a little strange when they do it? >>Louise Kay: I don't know really.
In my experience it was that, I would connect to this energy. And then it
would somehow affect the energy of the body and the voice, maybe the information coming
through had a different frequency than if it just comes directly from here and that
effects it. I don't really know. But, I just kind of surrendered to it and let it happen.
>>Rick Archer: Were you, kind of a trance channeler like Edgar Cayce, where you didn't
even know what was going on? Or were you aware of yourself sitting in a chair, and
at the same time doing the channeling? >>Louise Kay: No. I was fully present all
the time. And, so, I was kind of learning from that information that was
coming through and applying it in my own life. And
>>Rick Archer: Did you sometimes ask your, ask, what was it?
Aikon . That was the name of the collective >>Louise Kay: Aikon.
>>Rick Archer: That you channeled, did you sometimes ask them your own
questions? Or just field questions from people you were, doing this for?
>>Louise Kay: No, I never asked them anything personal. And it felt like it wasn't
for that It felt like I just never felt the need to either. It felt like it was for other people.
>>Rick Archer: And did you notice any deleterious influences from it? Did you feel tired or
drained or anything like that, as a result of it? >>Louise Kay: Most of the time I felt energized
after it. And a few instances, afterwards I felt tired or drained if the person that was kind of
interacting with Aikon was, like a few times it happened that they weren't really interested.
And they were just kind of aggressive and >>Rick Archer: So you mean somebody in the
audience? They were being kind of mean, or rude, or something
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: Yeah.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, I think because my system was so open and kind of vulnerable.
When I was in that channeling state that >>Rick Archer: Yeah.
>>Louise Kay: It it would affect me, but it it only happened like one or two times.
>>Rick Archer: Okay. What else? There was one or two other things?
Oh, yeah. So how long did you do it altogether? >>Louise Kay: The channeling was about two years.
>>Rick Archer: Okay. And you actually kind of got, it became an income stream, right? You were able
to travel around the world and channel and people would come and... you didn't have to
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: Clean toilets
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. I actually didn't really, like, have that in mind. And it
just kind of organically started growing where I was doing it for fun. And friends were like, Oh,
this is fun. I want to ask a question. And then, word spread. And, someone else wanted to ask a
question and, well, Hey, why don't I do sessions for people doing this? , and I put a few videos
on YouTube just for fun, and it kind of exploded. >>Rick Archer: Those videos are still
there, if people want to see him. I have found that, I mean, Bashar is, I think
my second most popular interview and, the others are pretty popular too. I have found that healers
and channelers and things like that people often they become very popular. And I sometimes get
the feeling like, people like someone who can do it for them in a way? As opposed to someone
that says, Here, practice this technique and see me in a week or see me in a year. It's there's
some fascination with somebody who can sort of help do it for us, you know what I mean?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I'm feeling much more resonance with what is being shared now.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: Because With the channeling, there's
also a lot of projection, like, These beings are all knowing and I can just ask them the answer
and they can tell me what to do. And one of the main messages of Aikon is that, Look, we're
not interested in that. We want to support you to get in touch with this yourself, to
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: get in touch with your own
inner knowing to really empower people. And, to me, yeah. It feels more important that we we
give up that projection, and connect to our own inner knowing, and our own inner guidance.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, and of course that happens with Earthly teachers too, where in some
cases it seems to be all about them. And, oh, Aren't I special? And, people project all kinds of
things onto them and, begin to actually undermine their own common sense, and their own,
capabilities, whereas other teachers really seem good at keeping things balanced, and not
letting people get into that That dependent state. >>Louise Kay: Yeah, I always tell people like,
No matter who it is that tells you something. It doesn't matter if they're the
most enlightened being on the planet, your own inner knowing comes first.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. I'll tell you a story, I told it last week, I promise I'm not going
to tell this again next week but, so I just I just heard this the other day, from Swami
Sarvapriyananda, but Some guy came to Ramana, and, he's, and he said, Ramana, what should I do? ,
and Ramana said, well Know yourself . And he said Person
You told this last week. >>Rick Archer: I know I said I told it last
week. I'm not going to tell it next week. And so Different people are watching today. And so >>Louise Kay: I didn't hear it Rick.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. Louise hasn't heard it. And so, the guy said, Yeah , but he says, I'm a,
I'm a great devotee of Narayana . And Ramana said, That's fine . And he said, so, When I die,
will I be able to go to Narayana s abode? And Ramana said, Sure . And he said, Oh, great.
Will I be able to talk to him? And he said, Yeah . And, Ramana said, Sure . And he said,
Will, Narayana talked to me? . And Ramana said, Oh, yeah . And so he said, Well, what will he say
to me? And Ramana said, he'll say, Know yourself. Two questions about the channeling still, as you
did it for two years. And, initially you had felt this awakening in the sixth chakra. Did that sort
of open more and more as you did the channeling? Did the channeling become a means through
which this this chakra could get cleared out even more and kind of be wide open?
>>Louise Kay: No, it didn't really feel like that it felt
like the clearing and the integration was happening in the whole system.
>>Rick Archer: Well, Okay. So it didn't just enliven this, the channeling
actually had a clearing and integrating effect on all of you, on your whole system.
>>Louise Kay: No. It didn't feel like it was the channeling that was doing that. It felt like the
dedication to living fully present in the now, and meeting everything that came up,
and... There were a lot of traumas in the system that came up and, a lot of
releases happened and, a lot of seeings of unconscious conditionings, and behavioral
patterns. So, as they were more seen they began to fall away. And as the energies were
processed, the system started to open and a more higher consciousness began to move through.
>>Rick Archer: So that happened regardless of the channeling and probably would have been happening
whether or not you were channeling, channeling was just something that was going on.
>>Louise Kay: That's my sense. >>Rick Archer: Okay, good.
And then so, finally, what was the intuition that it was time to stop channeling?
How did you make How did that realization come about? How did you make that transition?
>>Louise Kay: There was a growing feeling of something just wanting to express
like this. Without the channeling. And I had an intuitive knowing that the channeling
was going to come to an end. I could feel that something new was birthing. And, Aikon spoke
to me directly one day it was only the second time that they had ever spoken to me directly
and they said, We, we shall be leaving soon. And, I knew it, and, it felt right before
they said it. So, I wasn't like disappointed. It was more like, Oh, yeah, I know . And
then, it was like, pretty quick after that information came that it
Fell away. And I was doing group channeling meetings in Rishikesh at the time,
and I had these posters all around town. So, I showed up at this meeting and
everyone came to see me channel, and I said, Look, it's not true for me anymore.
>>Rick Archer: Interesting. Did they want their money back?
>>Louise Kay: Well, it was by donation so... Some of them
walked out and some of them stayed, and yeah it was really nice. They came to me and said, Oh,
I appreciate that you're following your truth. And >>Rick Archer: Yeah, that's good.
>>Louise Kay: It was nice. >>Rick Archer: Do you get the feeling that there
are higher entities of various sorts like Aikon who are, there could be a great many of them, who
are very much concerned about and involved with, the condition of the Earth at this
time, and that are, doing what they can, from their level, to Help it out?
>>Louise Kay: My sense is, yeah. >>Rick Archer: Okay, good. A few
questions came in, let's do those now. So, Rohel, from Spain asks, Why do spiritual teachers
often place oneness above many-ness? Can oneness and many-ness not go hand in hand, like equals so
to say I'm fine with both. Why would many-ness be an illusion or construction? Why would there
even be many-ness if oneness would suffice? It s a good question, actually.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. Well, when we experience and
perceive reality and relate with the world from the perspective of many-ness, we're relating
from a perspective ultimately of separation. And that sense of separation is
painful for us on some level. There's a deep sense, underlying that, Something's not
quite right, something's not quite fulfilled. And We often try to fill that hole Get
that fulfillment through experiences, or waiting for something to happen in the future.
And it's often related to our conditioning that we picked up, like, when you meet your life partner
then you'll be happy, because they'll make you happy. Or when you get successful then, people
recognize you and you feel like you have some worth or value. Or when you get rich, then you'll
be happy. And so our focus becomes on striving to get, and attain, and achieve these things. And
it's always focused on some point in the future, When I get there . And, that causes us to miss
the beauty and the intimacy of this moment, and we never really experience a deep fulfillment or
satisfaction, because that's just not possible from that perspective of separation. It's
fragmented. And so when we look deeper and we go beyond the physical reality and
the conceptual sense of that individual self. And we open to the, what I call
our true nature, which is our formless essence. This Pure, open,
space, of loving awareness. That loves to dance and create, and
express itself in form, then, that brings a a deep sense of
fulfillment and inner peace, just in being And we don't need anything
outside to complete us or make us happy. Just in being itself there's
already a deep satisfaction. And... It's not that the formless and the
form are separate from each other. They There is no separation between them. The
formless is the essence that animates the forms. And the form is temporary. So it's born, and it
dies, and the formless essence is unchanging. It s It's infinite. Yeah, most people
have heard the analogy of the ocean That, the waves arise. And it seems
like the wave is somehow separate, but it's made of the same water. And, it's born
from the ocean and it lives its limited life, its expression of form, and it returns to the ocean.
>>Rick Archer: Good. I would just say to Rohel, that there are different teachings for different
people and different levels of teaching. And no one teaching is necessarily appropriate
for all people at all stages of their development. For instance, the Gaudapada did a commentary
on the Mandukya Upanishad , and the whole thing is this deep logical argument about how the
creation actually never arose in the first place. The rope never became a snake, and so on and so
forth. And it's, in a way, it's definitely true at its own level, but then, even he, did
another whole scripture thing that he wrote, which was all in praise to the Divine Mother, and
the divine play of creation, and so on. So, if somebody tries to kind of emphasize one particular
perspective to the exclusion of all others, it usually ends up being a kind of a lopsided
approach, which is not broadly useful. In my take on it. Okay, here's another one coming
in. Let's see what this one is. This is kind of similar and interesting. Someone from Zand- ,
Rohel , Oh it s the same guy from, Zandvoort asks, Is right and wrong at the level of the soul?
The same as right and wrong at the human level? >>Louise Kay: Well, I think we'd have
to clarify what is meant by soul here? Because I'm not really sure what the question is
asking but, from the perspective of the formless, there is no duality, there is no right or wrong
but, everything just is. And it's the mind which perceives reality through
these filters of dualism, and segregates everything into
right-wrong, spiritual-not spiritual, good-bad, desirable-undesirable, and it's
important, also, that we Don't fall into the spiritual trap of saying, Oh well, there is no
right or wrong. So I can just do whatever I want. When we know ourselves as our true self, the Any
word that labels it are it is insufficient. So, we can call it the true self.
When we know ourselves as that, and the system is totally clear.
That expresses through the system. Wisdom, peace, love, harmony, just that's it
s nature. So it doesn't need to think like, Oh, is this the wrong right or wrong
thing to do? . It just naturally contributes harmony. And it's where we have these veils or filters of our conditioned behaviors
or traumas, that act like a wall or a blockage to that natural expression coming through, that
cause us, as humans, to act out evil in the world. So, all that's required really is for us to
look at these veils or these filters and see where they are. How they're playing themselves
out. And as they're seen, from the perspective of higher consciousness, they begin to dissolve
and fall away, and so that natural expression that comes through becomes more and more purified.
>>Rick Archer: Good answer. The Tao Te Ching has this whole thing
about how if everyone in society were in tune with the Tao, then you wouldn't need all these laws,
because people would act spontaneously right, rightly. And not, be harming each other in
various ways. But it's when the Tao is lost, and when very few people are in tune with it, that
you need structures of law and Moral guidelines and so on and so forth in order for people not
to make a big mess of things and harm each other. So, like you say, and I have
heard teachers actually say that, Oh, well, it's all, it's all absolute, there
is no relative, and therefore I can do whatever I want. It's all an illusion, anyway. Fine. End up
in an illusory jail if you like, but Prison But, Render under Caesar what is Caesar's That
there are, absolute reality does not negate or obviate relative realities,
and the rules which govern them. >>Louise Kay: Yeah, and, it seems to me that
this vigilance is required every single moment. Also, when, when one is performing
the role as a teacher or a therapist, to ensure that the ego mind doesn't unconsciously
hijack that role, to act out unconscious traumas in the system, and use the spiritual teachings
to do so, because that can be very dangerous. >>Rick Archer: Yes, it can. There's a
great quote from Padmasambhava, he said, Although my awareness is as vast as the sky,
my attention to karma , which means action, Is as fine as a grain of barley flour . So what
that means is, that you can be a very high being, and yet you still have to be on your toes in
terms of, there is even a greater preciseness and delicacy, and, intuitive sensitivity To In
fact, there's immediate feedback Wouldn t you say, Louise? I mean, if you do go off the mark a
little bit you You get smacked, more readily and notice it, and it helps to keep you on track.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. When, the problem can be that if the ego mind also infuses
to the point where it says, Okay, I've got it, or, I know , then life can be shouting something
at you, and still, you won't hear it. And it seems to me that there can be teachers or
Expressions of life that are very, very clear, and have beautiful gifts, and very clear pointings
that are coming through. And, at the same time, there can be a huge distortion, or unconscious
trauma, or Something acting out that hasn't been seen. So that's why it's so important that, as
seekers, we don't project that if somebody has experienced realization, or non-dual awareness, or
they're performing the function of a teacher That everything they say, or everything they
do is the absolute truth. To really be vigilant and discerning.
>>Rick Archer: Here, here. I really I heartily agree with you. In fact, I,
along with Jack O'Keefe, and Craig Holliday, and Miranda McPherson, and Mariana Kaplan,
I helped to establish something called the, Association for Spiritual Integrity
, which is: spiritual-integrity.org, to try to Sort of popularize in the
spiritual culture that ethics are important and are an important component
of the spiritual path, which traditionally, they have been understood to be, if you read
Patanjali, or any of the ancient sources, but, a lot of times that's been glossed
over in contemporary spirituality. And there have been all these messy situations,
and like you say, students might sit there, really admiring a teacher and the teacher seems so
good in so many ways, and so inspiring, and yet, starts going off the beam a little bit
and the students begin to think, well, This doesn't seem right, but Hey. This guy
is supposed to be enlightened and I'm not so What do I know? and they
abdicate their own discernment. >>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: Do you have any more comment on that?
>>Louise Kay: Not right now. >>Rick Archer: Okay. Here's another
question. This is from Marilyn in Texas, Marilyn asks, How do we balance living in
the present and planning for the future? I always feel like I have to plan life changes to
navigate around constant unavoidable fear-based messages entering the mind. I love Louise by the
way, I've been following her for a long time, her tender energy is so soothing. She's a
beautiful embodiment of the divine feminine. And then she has Two hearts on the screen.
>>Louise Kay: Who is this question from? >>Rick Archer: Marilyn in Texas.
>>Louise Kay: Thank you, Marilyn. >>Rick Archer: So, do you remember the
question? After I gave you that flattering and embarrassing compliment from from Marilyn?
>>Louise Kay: Maybe just run it by me one more time
>>Rick Archer: Okay, she wants to know, How do you, how do we balance living in the present and
planning for the future? I always feel like I have to plan life changes to navigate around constant
unavoidable fear-based messages entering the mind. >>Louise Kay: So, if we need to make plans
for the future, we can make the plans while staying fully present in the now. For example,
if me and Rick want to schedule a Skype call, we can have a conversation about, When is your
When is there free spot in your calendar? . And as we're talking, our attention is fully
present in the now. And we're deeply connected. If there's fear-based thoughts arising, then it's great that you're already
aware of those fear-based thoughts. And it's not necessarily that the best way to
try to avoid them by making plans, but simply observe them, and don't give any power to
them. So remember that those thoughts are not speaking the truth. And you see, if
you make a plan to do something that's coming from a fear of experiencing a
fear, then life's gonna reflect that back. And it's not coming from your deeper truth.
In order to allow the future to unfold from the expression of life, rather than the mind
s fear based ideas, we have to first be fully present, and also, aware of how it feels in the
body, and we become like an empty vessel. And, life moves through us rather than us
functioning from this mental level of, Oh, what if this happens in the future? Then maybe I
should do this? And everything's kind of logical, and analytical, and trying to avoid
things, or manipulate and control life. When we give up all that, and we just be. Then
the desire of what we want to do in the future, doesn't come from the minds desire, but it
comes from a deeper intuitive knowing. And, it's like we're operating and relating with
life on a different level. So, the key is to not engage with those thoughts. And when you recognize
them arising. Bring your attention fully present in the moment. And notice how it feels in the
body. Often, if there's a repetitive thought pattern, then, there's an unprocessed
energy or trauma on an energetic level that's wanting some attention. So it's good to
ask, Okay, how does it feel in the body right now? And most of the time, we become aware
that there's a contraction somewhere. And then we just be with that, and feel that,
and give gentle loving attention to it. And as we Give it that gentle loving attention it begins
to soften and open, and that energy releases, and it stops producing those fear based thoughts.
And it creates space in the system for that natural flow of life to express.
>>Rick Archer: Let me make up a concrete example. This is probably not what Marilyn is thinking
about but, this just might help to bring it down to Earth a little bit more... So, Marilyn
is from Texas, and the COVID pandemic is pretty bad in Texas. And let's say Marilyn has kids and
she's trying to decide whether she should send the kids back to school in a few weeks. And, there's
implications to that The kids might get sick, or maybe it wouldn't be so bad for them, but
they might bring it home to grandma or, the, a lot of people are actually saying that they
feel like the fear is the greatest pandemic right now more than the disease, although
I don't know if I agree with that but, a lot of people are feeling fear And
Person For good reason.
>>Rick Archer: Probably for good reaso- and a lot of people are being kind of reckless and
saying, I'm not afraid I don't need to wear a mask, and I can go in the store. And don't make
me wear a mask. And there's this kind of like, stigma about being careful in some people's
minds. So, but in any case, there's a lot of fear in society right now. And maybe, and Marilyn
is obviously feeling some, for some reason, I don't know what the actual reasons, but
if we take a concrete example like that, which actually has very practical implications,
it could make a big difference what you do or don't do, how would you then address her concern?
>>Louise Kay: Well, it would be the same with any decision-making process. So if we try to make
a decision based on the level of the mind, then the mind will rationalize and look at the
information available, and make pros and cons. And, it can be helpful but,
there's a way that we can access information on a deeper level, which, when we move
from that place, and take action from that place, then, it results in more flow, and coherence,
and harmony in life. So, we become very still, and open to the silence that s here, beyond
the thought, beyond the mental noise, noticing the awareness in which the thoughts
are arising and rest the attention there, and, kind of tune in, and allow the
knowing to arise from there. And, this is how we move through life so, life
presents a situation and we can either react to that, if we're functioning from
the mind-level, or we can respond to it. If we're connected, and in
tune with this deeper wisdom, and when we're responding to life, there's
never any stress or problems really There's just appropriate action that's taken. These are the
options. And this one feels right. And then we take action on it. And all of that energy that
goes to, Oh, what shall I do and And worrying and fear. It's just, it's not necessary anymore.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. There's a line from the Upanishads, which says, Certainly all fear is born
of duality . And you can kind of get that, because if, if you're in duality, if you are separate
from things, then things can threaten you. But if you're, if you appreciate the underlying
unity of life, then what can threaten what? And who can threaten whom?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: And I think probably if one is, kind of,
stranded in a dualistic condition then, even if you're not feeling fear, there's a
kind of a foundational fear that underlies things all the time, wouldn t you say?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's like the system is in a constant state of fight or flight mode, it s in a constant
state of stress, or anxiousness, Where's the next hit from life gonna come from?
>>Rick Archer: Interesting. So hopefully, Marilyn, that answered your question. And if
it didn't, then feel free to send a follow up question. Here's one from Tim in Victoria, British
Columbia. I think I know Tim up there. He said, I accept the premise that there is a fundamental
ground of being-awareness that is intrinsically unified and whole. I have touched this ground
on many occasions, but find such a resistance to settle fully into it. This resistance seems to
come from an inability to deeply trust. Can you share your understanding of the nature of trust?
>>Louise Kay: So, when we're surrendering fully to our true nature, what happens is
the ego-mind doesn't just say, Okay, great idea. Yeah, surrender . It puts up a
fight. It's not gonna let you go that easy, and it's fighting for its life, it's fighting for
control, it's fighting to stay in charge. And, it's saying, No, you can't trust that, that s not
safe. Stay here with me I'll keep you comfortable, it's familiar. We know this, we've lived this
together our whole life, I'm your best friend. And what's required, is in that moment when
that fear arises, or that lack of trust, to surrender everything in that moment and open
fully, to that fear. And, it's coming to mind this story of the Buddha, when he, he was sitting in
meditation and all the dem-, the different demons, came to him in images and it's like that,
we just maintain that inner Buddha nature, no matter what comes up, we stay still, and have
the willingness to open and feel whatever arises. >>Rick Archer: It's kind of the old Hutton Palace
analogy if, let's say, you've been living in this shoddy little hut. And, then off in the distance,
there's this beautiful palace, and someone says, That's your palace, leave the hut and move into
it. And you start to go towards the hut And then you think, Whoa, wait a minute, what if it's
not really my palace? Or what if I get eaten by a tiger along the way? Or, my hut wasn't so
bad? After all, it was actually kind of cozy. And you see? So you scurry back to the hut
>>Louise Kay: Yeah. >>Rick Archer: And you kind of Yeah. But, like you
said earlier. You don't do this in one fell swoop. It's not like you're doing something wrong, if
you don't find yourself having shifted into a all-pervading cosmic consciousness, or something
like that, on day one, it takes a while, stage by stage, level by level, to unwind all this.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, it's like one of the great spiritual
paradoxes that, There is nothing to do, you are already that. It is done. And at the same
time, it, in time and space, this process happens. And there's an unfolding, and there's integration,
and For most people, even after there's a direct experience of the true self or non-dual
awakening, there's a kind-of falling asleep again, and waking up, and a moving-shifting backwards and
forwards, backwards and forwards until we become more and more deeply anchored in
this natural state of being. And, I like this comparison to a baby learning
to walk. Where, first it, it's crawling. And that's, that to me feels kind of like the seeker
mode. And, then we're meditating, practicing. And then at some point it stands up. And that's like
the first recognition. And then what happens, the baby falls over again. But the baby doesn't
say, Oh, I failed, I lost it, I can't do it again. >>Rick Archer: I ll always be a baby.
>>Louise Kay: It just gets up. And then it falls down. It gets up. And it walks
a few steps. And the falling down is part of the process. It's only the mind that has an idea
that, This shouldn't be happening in the process. This isn't part of the learning. That
makes us think that something's wrong. But it's not. It s perfect just like that.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, that's good. I mean, the reality is what it is, people or no people,
body or no body, universe or no universe. But, what we're talking about is actually, living
it as a human being. And therefore the instrument through which it is lived, has to be rendered more
and more suitable for that, that state, it has to be refined, purified, integrated, and so on.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, so we experience this opening to higher consciousness.
And then, in a way that's like the beginning. And the process of deepening and integration starts.
And a lot of healing takes place on that journey. And on that human level there
seems like there is no end to it. >>Rick Archer: Yeah. Somebody sent me a quote the
other day, and I actually emailed it to you. And I think I'll just read it out. Just for fun. I won't
be reading it out in every interview, but I'll read it out in this one just because it's it kind
of inspired me. It's from something called the What is it? The Kybalion - A study of the Hermetic
philosophy of ancient Egypt and Greece . And here's how it goes, it relates to what we're
saying, Do not make the mistake of supposing that the little world you see around you, the Earth,
which is a mere grain of dust in the universe, is the universe itself, there are millions upon
millions of such worlds and greater, and there are millions of millions of such universes in
existence within the infinite mind of the all. And even in our own little solar system Excuse
me, Even in our own little solar system, there are regions and planes of life far higher than
ours, and beings compared to which we Earth-bound mortals are as the slimy life forms that
dwell on the oceans bed, when compared to man, there are beings with powers and attributes higher
than man has ever dreamed of the gods possessing, and yet these beings were once you, and
still lower, and you will be even as they, and still higher, in time, for such as is the
destiny of man as reported by the Illumined. And death is not real, even in the relative
sense, it is but birth to a new life. And you shall go on, and on, and on, to higher and still
higher planes of life, for eons upon eons of time, the universe is your home, and you shall explore
its farthest recesses before the end of time, you are dwelling in the infinite mind of the
all, and your possibilities and opportunities are infinite, both in time and space. And at the
end of the grand cycle of all eons, when the all shall draw back into itself, all of its creations,
you will go gladly for you will then be able to know the whole truth of being at one with the all.
And actually I, that last line, you can know the whole truth of being at one with the all, before
the universe goes back into dissolution, you can know it now, as you were saying, so maybe there'll
be some ultimate final knowing at that point but, you don't have to wait for that.
>>Louise Kay: For me, I love the mystery and the magic of this
universe and I love, not to know. And that's part of the beauty of this dance of creation.
That, it's so immense, beyond what the mind can imagine It, if we even just try to
comprehend with our mind the size of the known universe, and the billions
of galaxies To comprehend that is It's There's no words And, there is such a beauty,
and magic, in the mystery of everything. And to see life through these eyes. It brings life
to life... To see the magic in every moment, and the beauty in even the most mundane things, the
most everyday objects, the fact that we are alive, and experiencing this form. It s incredible.
>>Rick Archer: That's beautifully put. Have you written any books? You'd be a good writer.
>>Louise Kay: No, I haven t. Not yet. >>Rick Archer: Yeah. Do you tend to write
little things? I know you have a bunch of blog posts Do you express yourself,
in words, written word, very often? >>Louise Kay: Sometimes
>>Rick Archer: You might start collecting that stuff.
You could turn it into a book. >>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah. That s beautifully put. It kind of reminds me of that the idea
of God, which is that, the divine intelligence that is behind all this, or permeate- and
permeating all this. Because a lot of times in spiritual circles, the, there's a lot of talk
of the absolute, and the un-manifest, and all, and it sounds kind of plain vanilla , but, when
you actually consider the wonder, and mystery, and beauty, and incredible complexity,
and vastness, and all, of the universe, it seems to me much richer, much
more profound in a way, then, an emphasis on just un-manifest flatness being
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, to experience that being from the perspective of
the mind, is the most boring thing in the universe It's like, it s torturous, but, to know oneself
as that, and to be a part of this unified field of intelligence, it it's the most joyous experience.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. That's All the points you make are so good. Some-
somebody was talking about depression the other day, and I was, you know the old analogy of a fish
being thirsty while it's swimming in the ocean? You know, or, looking for the ocean, or some such
thing, even though it's immersed in the ocean, and, one of the characteristics of this
ultimate reality that we keep talking about is, is Ananda, or bliss. And if a person
is feeling depressed, or bored, or life seems to be empty, and meaningless, it's like
that fish... You want to elaborate on that a bit? >>Louise Kay: I really love what
Jeff Foster says about depressed, I don't know if you've heard his take on it.
>>Rick Archer: I know, Jeff, and I've interviewed him, but I don't remember what it said about that.
>>Louise Kay: Okay So, he turns depressed as, deep rest . And it's the system just longing to stop,
to... And I'm not quoting Jeff here I I don t want to And, just to take a break, and take a
deep, deep rest, and often when we have the experience of depression, there's this idea
that, There's something wrong with me now. I'm, I'm broken, I need fixing, somehow, I need
to figure out how to feel differently, how to reject this experience that's arising, I need
to take pills or change my diet or, do something. And, if we do the opposite of that, and
we very, very gently get curious about the experience and look closer at it. Then, what
we notice is probably there's thought patterns and stories arising that are identified with Which
are of a negative nature. And, by watching them, by observing them, we're able to dis-identify from
those stories and recognize that the that s the ego mind, it's, it's creating a sense of identity
through perceiving reality in this way. And often it feels a distorted sense of pleasure
by feeling suffering and like a victim. So we're able then to dis-identify from
the mental level of suffering. And look at what's experienced in the body. How is it?
How is depression experienced in the body? And, when we really look with curiosity,
we'll probably find that there's like, some pressure on the chest, or contraction
in the belly. And rather than trying to get rid of that, and making it wrong,
if we just very gently Ah, I see you, I feel you, and it's okay that you're here , open
up to it and let it be okay. Then, that sensation, which is labeled as depression, becomes
the gateway for deepening into being, and accessing our natural state of joy.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, that's nice, and, I like the deep rest angle, because I
mean, sometimes depression can be caused by backlog of fatigue, you're just burdened
by tiredness and some few good night's sleep and some nice deep restful meditations
can totally transform your perspective, but... whether we call it fatigue, or trauma,
or what, the there doesn't seem to be a, the tendency for the system to accumulate
stuff, and it can't be a clear mirror or channel for that deep bliss that pervades
everything. If those, if that accumulation is there, so we ve got to clear it out.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, we first have to meet what Eckhart calls, the pain body , and in
meeting it and being present with it, we deepen in being because you have to be, you have to
increase your level of presence in order to be able to meet those sensations because they can
be intense, and they can be really unpleasant. And I often use this analogy of weightlifting,
it's like, if you want to get these huge muscles, which is like to be deeply anchored in presence.
>>Rick Archer: Like mine. Yeah. You see?
>>Louise Kay: You got to be able to lift those big weights, but you can't
lift the big weights until you start with the little weights. And so you just meet what you can
and be present with what you can consistently. Moment to moment. Opening to the inner experience. And as you do so, you're able to lift bigger
and bigger weights, and you're able to meet more and more intensity of these energies.
>>Rick Archer: And would you say that the deeper traumas or the deeper impressions are, those
are not the ones you're going to meet initially, you have to sort of like with the weights, you
have to start out naturally with the smaller ones. And, then you get on to the bigger ones. And the
bigger ones don't seem as big as they would have if you had started with them, because
now you have more capacity to meet them. Would that be correct to say?
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, it seems like that. Yeah. And it seems like a It's like an onion with
these layers and layers. And, what I'm coming to dis- understand more and more in this work that
I'm doing with people is when you get to the core of it, we all seem to have pretty much the same
core trauma, which is a deep sense of abandonment and feeling unloved or not worthy in some way.
>>Rick Archer: Well, we're just about the end of our two hours. Here's a nice concluding remark
from Marilyn in Texas, who we spoke with earlier, she said Thank you for sharing such helpful
knowledge, and raising up the love frequency in the collective. So I think that everyone
listening to this will concur with Marilyn that they feel appreciation for what you're
doing in that way. Definitely helping. >>Louise Kay: Thank you.
Rick Archer Yeah. What, would you like to say in
terms of how people can connect with you or interact with you? Or, what do you
have going on that people can plug into? >>Louise Kay: I have right now, with this
lockdown situation, I'm doing twice a week, online, zoom, open zoom meetings, by
donation. Next one's tomorrow actually so, everyone's welcome to join that, and they can
go to my website: louisekay.net, and they can, I think it's: louisekay.net/zoom,
is the page to register for those. >>Rick Archer: And there s probably a link
on there or something. So you have an events? >>Louise Kay: Yeah, it's on the events page.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, there it is. I just went to it on the screen. So you click on Events, and it
takes you to the Zoom meetings here. And then you can click the more info thing and sign up for it.
>>Louise Kay: And then on 31st July, 1 & 2nd of August, there is an online weekend
retreat, which is an opportunity for us to together deepen into presence, and to meet
these energies, or these repressed emotions, traumas in the system and to explore together.
>>Rick Archer: Have you done any of those before? Weekend online retreats?
>>Louise Kay: This is the first online one. Yeah, they're usually in groups
they re in different cities. But everything's on hold at the moment, because
of the situation. So I say, Hey, why not Why not do it online?
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, I hope that works out. I would have a hard time doing one because
there's always so much going on around here, >>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: But, it's nice to get away to a
retreat place, if you can, but I hope that goes well.
>>Louise Kay: Yeah, and there is a 5-day retreat in North
Carolina in the end 30th of October. We'll see. >>Rick Archer: We'll see.
>>Louise Kay: We ll see if life, life >>Rick Archer: Yeah.
>>Louise Kay: What life wants. >>Rick Archer: You probably have a, an email
signup thing on your website here. I see. >>Louise Kay: Yeah.
>>Rick Archer: Subscribe. >>Louise Kay: Yeah. You can subscribe.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. They can stay connected with you and then you get notified of things that
are going on. So people are welcome to do that. Yeah, well, thanks so much, Louise. I really
Appreciate your spending this time with us and, I think we had quite a few people on there,
well over 300 listening during the live one, and I m sure there will be many more
once we put this up permanently. So, I really hope that everything goes well
with you. I hope your partner can manage to get out of India and come back to Amsterdam.
Louise's partner is stuck in India We were talking about that before we started. And
that, you continue to shine your bright light, because the world needs such lights.
>>Louise Kay: Thank you, Rick. It's been really a pleasure talking to you. I enjoyed.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah. >>Louise Kay: Thank you.
>>Rick Archer: Yeah, thank you. So, and thanks to those who've been listening, or watching, whether
on the live feed, or later on, appreciate your attention. And, just want to say briefly that you
can, subscribe to the YouTube channel if you like. Click on the subscribe button. And then if you
want to be notified every time I release one of these, click on the little bell next to the
YouTube channel that notifies you every time. But, I only do one of these a week so you're
not going to get bombarded with things. And the same with the email notification system
on: batgap.com, if you sign up, you'll get one email a week and, you get a second one three days
later if you don't open the first one. It s in the In case you missed it email. And there's few
other things there you might want to check out. The audio podcast if you like to listen to
audio things, instead of sit and watch videos, and various other things, just explore the
menus and you'll see them. So, thank you for listening or watching and See you next week.
Next week is a fellow named Andrew Hughson, who, when you look at his pictures, like, How
could he have been a serious alcoholic and spent time in prison? He looks like a bright young kid.
But, apparently he had that kind of experience, and then came out of it and is is really bright
looking now and doing great things, so, we'll be speaking with Andrew next week. And the week
after that is James Finley, who is an associate of Richard Rohr, a mystical contemplative,
Christian Richard Rohr and Cynthia Bourgeault. So I'll be speaking with James. Anyway, we
have them scheduled, usually a couple months in advance and there's an upcoming interviews
page where you can see who's scheduled. So again, thanks for listening and
watching. And thanks again Louise. >>Louise Kay: Thanks Rick.
>>Rick Archer: You're welcome.
