Louis Bherer and Ed Whitlock talk exercise, lifestyle and aging well

[Music] Unity Concordia good evening everybody Welcome to Concordia University on this gorgeous spring evening and it's uh my pleasure to welcome you to the final public conversations uh brought to you by Concordia University and the Global Mail newspaper on the topic of living well and staying healthy and it's great to see uh so many of you here this even evening uh as it has been uh uh every night in part of this series it's it's really terrific to see so many people come out for for this event and we've been delighted with the success of the series and are already looking forward to uh expanding the scope of the conversation in our next academic year 20134 uh but rather than looking too far ahead let's just look at the immediate future and and tonight and our moderator for tonight's convers is uh Sophie kuino the highly respected uh Quebec Chief correspondent at the glob and mail where her columns appear weekly in the report on business the University of Illinois urana champag diplom on economy on [Applause] Sophie tonight uh tonight so will moderate a conversation on the subject of exercise lifestyle and aging well and our distinguished conversationalists as you know are Lou berer the scientific director for our perform Center and Ed Whitlock Master marathon runner let me just say a few words about our two guests Ed Whitlock is surely one of Canada's most distinguished athletes he is the only person in the world over the age of 70 to have run a marathon in less than 3 hours and he's done that on three occasions now 82 years old he holds World Marathon records for men over 75 and over 80 and in addition he currently holds 15 other world records for various distances in outdoor and indoor track since September 2012 Dr Lou berer has been the scientific director at perform the perform Center concordia's new Research Center dedicated to preventive health and lifestyle management Louie completed his uh PhD in at any point in time that's uh that's a good thing prior to joining Concordia Looney had the hel a Canada Research chair from the Canadian Institutes of Health research to study how physical activity and mental exercise can help prevent cognitive decline in normal aging and he's published more than 60 scientific papers has co-authored a comprehensive book on aging and cognition and has been a guest lecturer uh at over 60 different venues in Europe the United States in Asia so the connections between research and The Wider world are at the heart of the mission the research Mission here at Concordia and finding ways to communicate our research and and make it accessible to the public at large is equally part of our mission and that's the spirit behind tonight's conversation Series so without further Ado I'll turn the podium over to Sophie and look forward along with the rest of you to a great evening Sophie [Applause] thank you thank you for a very kind introduction uh good evening everyone and thanks for being here tonight um just looking at the crowd over there uh I'm pretty sure there are a lot of runners in this room uh we're always in search of Secrets and best ways to run and I think Mr Whitlock is uh quite a quite a draw tonight to for us to be here and uh as all fellow runners tell you uh if you're not a runner uh then running is the easiest thing in the world uh it can be done anywhere anytime it's the best way to visit a city uh you just lace your shoes and off you go uh but running is rarely associated with people over 65 70 and never mind 80 uh in in most people's minds uh people that who are 80 years old should be in rocking chairs and I think that's where the main problem lies is that in thinking that it cannot be done and at what luck has proven everybody wrong in that respect yeah you can only be an awe everything that he's accomplished and um I know that most Runners would only dream of running a marathon under three hours uh I know I wish I could and so I'm really looking forward to our conversation with him as well as with Louis bar he's been looking into how exercise uh can prevent the cognitive decline uh which is associated with aging and um his research is quite Cutting Edge and it it's pointing towards uh uh extremely relevant uh findings uh for Quebec and Canada as our society's age um Sports it doesn't only help you to feel better it doesn't only improve your mood it can also make you more alert um but I I'm really no neuropsychologist and so before I make a scientific PHA I will promptly invite Mr Beer and Mr wh luck to join us here on the stage thank you Mr woodlock let's start with maybe what would be the simplest question is why is it that you run I suppose because I'm good at it I suppose it's it's a good enough reason really really but um when did you start exactly because I from what I understand you were not an early Runner uh well or L Bloomer should I say well I was but I used to run seriously when I was at school and University oh you were but uh when I came to Canada 21 uh I quit running I was living in Northern Ontario and uh not much running was going on there no in those days and and so I didn't start running again till I was 40 okay and and then what prompted you to run to start running at 40 because all my wife's fault it was your so you still blame her today yes what she sent me up to um to a club to to coach young young Runners and when I got there I found that they really weren't very interested in me as a coach and I don't think I'd have been any good as a coach anyway really and so I started jogging around the track at age 40 and these young guys looked at me and said Gee i' never seen an old man run before I found it wasn't too bad okay but it took me another another five or six years of constant Improvement it takes a long time when you've been off that long to achieve what you can do but you did no exercise whatsoever between the ages of 20 and 40 well I was I wouldn't say I was inactive but I didn't do any formal uh exercise you know back in those days there were no joggers on the road there were no no cyclists back then no adult cyclists and um but basically I think people were fitter then on average than they are today youve only got to look at the size of the people on the street today to see that people are not very fit but you know I think that there's what has happened is that there's a bunch of people who've got do all this jogging and cycling and whatever have you who've got better but they're overwhelmed by a whole bunch of other people who've got worse the uh you know French fries are great and I and I understand you had some at lunch today um did you um I mean it's one thing to start running but how did you ramp ramp all the way up to a marathon I mean it's quite a it's quite a journey as Runners know yeah well um in my when I first started running again I was a middle distance Runner I used to run on the track eight and 1500 met with these young kids okay and um I really didn't I dabbled in running a marathon back in those days but I wasn't very serious about it it was just a sort of sideline and but then when I got got to my late 60s I realized that nobody had no no man had run Less Than 3 hours for a marathon even though all kinds of people had got very close to that or or rather well under it when they very when they were approaching 70 but for some reason or rather when they got to 70 they never got it done okay and so I thought well you know that's there waiting for me and uh a degree of notoriety okay and um so it was Fame yes right and uh I I went and ran in a marathon when I was just over 70 in London Ontario and I failed miserably I didn't do it even though you quit before the end uh even though I was very confident beforehand that because I was 6 months before I'd run 254 but uh on that was not a good day and um then I got injured and I had to wait to try again until um well during that time I got debated whether I time was slipping by for me too but then I finally managed it when I was 72 okay and but what what does your training regimen look like because from what I've read it doesn't seem exactly textbook running advice um um it's pretty simple no no uh no great no great scientific basis to it I um I just go out and run for a long time and so when I when I'm fit I I I run every day for 3 hours okay and but at the moment I'm not very fit and I'm at an hour and a half oh that's tough but I hope to be up to 3 hours by summer and and where do you go where do you go you you live in Milton yeah I live in Milton and it's just uh two blocks of my house there a small cemetery and uh I run round and round that uh see for 3 hours and I I don't uh I don't count the laps and I don't time elapse but um this was kind of a little bit mindboggling because don't you get tired of the roots and yes you don't enjoy it not particularly no it's a it's a chore that has to be done if I want to race well I find that I have a fair amount of natural speed in running and I I need to work on my endurance and I find that just by jogging around this at a relatively slow Pace that that seems to work for me I don't know that it'll work for anybody else [Music] although I think it might you think it might um how do you avoid I mean the runner's biggest threat is always to be injured and not to be able to run how do how do you vote those do you do you do specific exercises or stretching or no have to be patient patient when so injuries come uh friend of mine in the Running Scene said you he he raced between injuries okay and um I I've had my share I have um problems in my knees they're getting a little old and uh some arthritis in there and if I get tracking in the wrong way and they start to hurt and I have to take some time off for rest and I find that no therapy seems to work for me just just uh take some time off rest them and then you have to gradually start up again and it's all very frustrating um when you're running marathons I mean running a marathon is really pushing yourself beyond your boundaries it's it's it's pushing through the wall it's pushing through the pain what what is your Mantra how what how do you how do you drive yourself to the end quickly might I add um I don't know I I have a degree of dogged persistence I guess which help helps me through but uh there have been marathons that I finished when I felt uh great and I could felt I could have kept running in fact when uh my fastest time when I was over 70 that that that day I could have felt I could have kept running for several kilometers more whether I could have done or not I don't know but on other occasions though um I wondered whether I could do another step so yeah it's um but Mar different different marathons are different yeah but do you what do you tell yourself what do you when you have a bad day or what keep looking at the clock you have to time yourself keep keep to the PACE and uh I have a pretty good idea of what I'm capable of before I start and as long as I'm disciplined enough and don't get overly ambitious I stick to that pace things generally work out well but trou with for me and most other marathon runners we become ambitious and uh you pay a horrible price at the for starting too quickly yeah um Lou uh how I mean I've never met someone like Mr Whitlock and so is he an exception a curiosity or is he a role model all of the above uh yeah he certainly is an inspiration for for most of people that participated in our studies and is an inspiration for for us too researcher who are interested to healthy aging um I remember uh when we were chatting about this series uh with Christian Duran who is here today is the communication advisor at perform and we were trying to look for someone who will inspire us you know I'm I've been working in uh in the field for like 10 years we're we're training older adults we're trying to take sedentary people telling them okay you should do some exercise you should do like two three months of exercise and you see you'll feel better you'll have a better memory you'll sleep better uh but but the the very good way to convince them is to bring an example and as a matter of fact I was using uh Ed picture in my talks for three years and I told Chan what about this guy maybe maybe we should call them and he he called them and realized that was just a normal guy eating not always good food that I I could I could see that today uh just just a normal guy and I asked him uh does it hurt that third Marathon at your age of course it hurts uh how do you do that well I you know I work hard and and so everything was so normal so is of course an inspiration a model is a is unique but his life is common life of a runner and for me it's such a great example that everybody can do it and that there's it's never trly I mean if if you could if you could start when did you start again to run you started at 40 you stopped and then no I stopped at 20 and started at 40 oh you restarted again at 40 okay and yeah so it's never too late and most people can do it and and running you said running is a a very simple example of sport we can do a lot of people are trying to buy fancy uh sport equipments and stuff like that but but in truth I mean just running doesn't cuss the buck I mean you just have to have nice shoes and and even now the trend is that you can run bare feet right I mean it's it's new now no I know there's a lot of Runners I don't want to I don't want to debate yeah uh so I mean for me yeah I mean it's just a simple sport activity that everybody should be doing on a regular basis and uh that's the best way to uh to to age well uh for me I mean I think it's pretty well documented I think everyone would agree that you know if you do exercise then the physical iCal benefits are there but what surprises me is and is to push back the cognitive decline how um how can it pushp back those manifestations how uh useful is it to really prevent the onset of uh uh illnesses that are associated with u um uh either um Alzheimer's or other forms of De generes uh the the the the mechanisms behind this are still poorly known and I have to be careful because aging as a field of research is a is a very new I mean it's it's uh it's bizarre but it's a very new field of research right because 10 100 years ago we're not aging on over 55 years old so now we have this new ground to to do research and uh what we do know is that if you if you follow people over a long period of time like in Long nor study you'll get like 15,000 people that you follow for 10 years the those who do exercise more than three time a a week on a regular basis lower their risk to become demented by up to 30% which is huge right but that doesn't control for genetic background for where where you grew up uh what do you eat uh so of course we need more science more research experimental research to understand what's going on and what we start to understand and was I mean back one or two decades ago we started to realize that there's direct effect on the brain when you do exercise it increases uh blood flow it increases uh neur neuro the neuro commmunication if you will uh uh neurotransmitters it also increases metabolites that are calling for uh neurons growth and synaptogenesis and angiogenesis synaptogenesis increases how the the neurons talk to each other it also increases the the the microvascularization of the brain so we we start to understand by using animal models that it has all this direct impacts on the brain which probably and maybe will help us to understand how it protects the brain over many years and and do we know what type of exercise works or I mean are all exercises equal or are we starting to see some differentiation between what the different types of things that we can do that that's another uh huge debate uh right now I think that the last 10 years were governed by aerobic exercise everybody was saying in the field you should do arobic exercise you should do fast walking running um more than 30 minutes each session blah blah blah now we've had some great results over the last couple of uh years showing that strength raining uh does also have an impact on the brain so people start to look at combined exercise strength rining and aerobic exercise of course I'm not talking about uh winning Marathon here I'm talking about protecting the brain from the bad sides of of aging and and what marathoners are all mad so yeah it was a saying that um um if a coach wants to find out has a a good Marathon prospect on his hands you all you need is a flashlight you shine it in one ear and you can see light coming out the [Applause] other well some some athletes have a very uh specific relation ship with their sport right I mean they don't they don't do sport for the good part of it right and I'm sure that you experience some of that some of that right that's right can you give us like specific examples of what are the benefits in terms of uh doing exercise for for older people um well there's the the IND effect besides dementia that you mentioned well the it it's been shown that it lowered the risk of depression anxiety it increases sleep uh Al those are have strong impact on the brain it also help control for chronic diseases that are often associated with age like uh of course hypertension we can think of metabolic metabolic disease uh it improves the level of physical fitness and physical fitness is a broad concept I mean it comes with uh modern Fitness it comes with Arabic of course Arabic Fitness but also morphological Fitness you know the way you the way the the the the fat Mass are are distributed in the body um so all these aspect of Fitness are improved by exercise how come I mean we' already know it improves our Wellness uh although we might not be as familiar with those extra benefits how come old people are not more doing more exercise as we speak well that's that's a good question I feel I might be too young to understand that uh uh I'm not going to ask you because the the uh I don't know but I it's true I mean I just mentioned that that we're we're less active than we were before and that's very interesting because as the market for or sport equipments growing people are not active they're not I mean based on the last statistic from the United us Center of uh control disease and prevention um we can think that right now after 65 years old onethird of people are doing exercise on a regular basis uh after 75 years old it's one one half of them when you look at vigorous exercise which is the level of exercise you need to achieve to improve aerobic capacity and physical fitness in general less than one less than one out of 10 people will practice vigorous exercise after 65 years old and the statistic lower again after 75 years old that's than 6% of them do vigorous exercise on a regular basis so I don't know why but the statistic are dramatic right now and people are are less and less active than it was before is it do you think it's because people don't think they can do it it's bears that they put themselves up uh in terms of uh I mean are are old people that are own worst enemies in a sense I think that uh one thing that we experience when we work with older people is uh agism just because of their age there's an attitude and a reaction towards exercise when if we tell people at after 75 years old you should do exercise or you have hypertension then you know you should do exercise it's good for hypertension they'll say well at my age age I shouldn't start exercise because I've never did that before which is a bit bizarre to me because uh my my reaction would be well can do you think you can exercise what what you know and this sentence that I use some sometimes is close your eyes and just pretend you don't know your age what age would you be right uh and to answer to that you should think what what can you do what exactly can you do well some people will come out saying well I can bike I bike I can run I that before I can do that and that and that just because they forget about their age so I think older people are acting they're doing ages right they're they're acting against them themselves um but again it's easy to set my age I'll see I see later but uh I think that there's some ways we should look for helping those people to be more active and and all sports in uh indicated in in for people who's for a person who's 75 or are there sports that should be uh preferred over others uh because of the they are less strenuous on the body I don't I don't think there's we should again I don't think we should think of limitation jugging is bad I mean jugging is really painful I there's I'm sure there's a lot of juggers in the room tonight and I I mean it hurts no does it hurt no don't you think it hurts at some point not always I mean it's known in in sport sciences that that it's not the most easiest way to stay active right I mean it's hard for the knees it's hard for for the for the legs and for the body in general um but it's an easy way to do exercise and a cheap way to do it and I I don't think I would limit to what type of exercise a variety of exercise is good and I would suggest that especially for those who are not used to do exercise to have a variety of activities because you would you should aim for social activity as well because sometime it helps get motivated and I'm sure I don't know but I'm sure it's easiest to run faster in a crowd in during a competition than by yourself yeah that's one of the reasons that uh why I run I train by myself is because when uh if I getting with a crowd you get competitive and you start running faster than I want to do so it could be comp I don't look upon myself as a terribly competitive person and yet somehow or other the adrenaline gets going when you get in a crowd and but it could be competitive but it could also be a social aspect that's positive you know I run in a park in Montreal and I can tell you that you you often time you see those people who run like this and then they come across someone you know a girl or a man and they're like you know they start walking like this this is social retroaction right it's social feedback so it's good it keep you motivated right to run anyway so but how um so you never run with anyone you like you never run with with friends friends or with family or uh not for my training no I prefer to train by myself because then I can just run at the speed that I want to yeah on occasion my son joins me in the cemetery and I don't welcome his his arrival he generally runs about three two strides in front of me and says why are you running so slowly so the competitive Spirit runs in the family apparently oh yeah I guess um but what do your friends and family think of of what you're doing do they um do they H have you inspired people around you to run or older people to run have you found that uh people have said well if he can do it then maybe I could or uh I don't think I have found that I mean people people say to me on occasion you're an inspiration and I I don't know really how to respond to that cuz I don't think I'm a terribly inspiring type of person much too lowkey and I can't I'm not one of these people who stands up before a marathon and say you know you can do it type of thing that's not my nature I'm not like that but I I certainly agree with the idea that old people can you know their own worst enemies that they don't do things because they just don't feel they can and maybe I should run much faster than I do if I only had greater Ambitions I think you have a lot of ambition do do have ever has everybody ever told you that you should stop running when you have knee issues and stuff like that saying you know that this agis and that uh maybe you know you know it's time to people some people say that it's not good for you to to do that running and uh um I went to see a joint specialist uh about s or8 years ago and I was having knee problems and um she said you're running days are over so you know you and how do you respond to that advice and you know you don't you don't have to believe everything you were told but um so so you pushed despite the fact that you had knee problems you continued and you just rested as you did I took a rest and things got better better and I I find that these V various therapies don't don't seem to work for me and I don't bother with those sorts of things um I just find if my if my if I have some sort of ACH or pain what I have to do is um assess whether you know how important it is if you stop for every little thing you'd never run at all but uh you know if it hurts take a rest and let it get better and so far that's worked whether whether it'll work uh next time who knows and and do you feel the benefits that uh Mr B was referring to like in terms of uh your mental equity and uh do you feel rest do you have do you sleep easily do you uh not according to the rest of my [Laughter] family but um you do I I remember I recall when we spoke just a little bit before this conference you said that um for instance you suffer a little bit of hypertension um isn't that something that um would somehow subside for running did you um or is it something that you think might be caused by your running um well I I think it I think it's possible it's uh caused partially by my running but um you know my heart is because of the type of training I've done has become too strong for the uh for all the uh pipes that lead away from the heart and it uh it's raised my raised my heart uh my uh my stolic um pressure whether that's really so or no I don't know whether it's just uh just genetic whatever I don't know but uh um you know doctors don't like it they you know say to me that's something that should be attended to but so far I have uh chosen not to get on medic any medication you've got your own medication running well I suppose yes I mean I I I I don't think that running is universally good for anything you do in this world always has its pros and its cons nothing nothing is ever perfect that that's uh that cones very clearly what we're trying to tell people when we tell them they should exercise because he's not saying it change everything it it you still have hypertension and 9% out of 10 after 65 years old have at least one C vascular risk factor and those people that run don't get rid of that but the functional aspect Associated to it is virtually not there right I mean the most people that have many chronic medical condition can cannot run but you still run and you're still healthy uh you don't take pills I mean most people after 85 years old will take eight or nine of them uh there's a big cocktail of pharmaceutical uh um ingredients that come with age right so exercise is not is not exercise is is just a way to keep uh to stay functionally active as we age and so so if people are not doing enough how um in terms of public policy should we go about encouraging older people to do uh whatever exercise they like and because there obviously social benefits to this uh as our population is aging well that's a that's a very good question I'm not the civil engineer and I don't know what the how we should change the city I know there's big group of people thinking about it the Aging friendly City group and there's a lot of organization want around the world that are trying to work on this uh I think that as much as we can have space and places for uh that Su suit older people needs it will be better because right now what what people would tell us after 3 months of exercise in our lab they're really happy they felt the change they felt better they have increased quality of life and they want to keep this exercise regimen and of course we're a research center so I have to tell them that's it we had the money from AWA to run this huge study but now you know I'm not running a gym uh well I know that at perform there's there's community services and there's a lot but prior to coming to perform I I no access to this so we're telling them you should you should find a gym but what happen is that they don't feel comfortable going there that that doesn't look like them right and what's in your lab exactly in terms of equipment or well they're by themselves they're they're just all people people with of the same age with the same needs with with trainers that are uh that are trained to toh to work with those people so I think that we need to come up with with Mur that fit the needs of older adults and maybe we should just ask ask them what would be nice for them as a gym um and I think that as the growing uh bodyy of evident uh showing exercise is good for older brain as it's good for younger brain uh will will come out I think the Govern should look at it and and think well if it's good for the brain it's preventive preventing uh disease it's saving money one thing but it increases the quality of life of everybody and what would you think would be like I know you're saying we should ask them but in your mind what would be the right infrastructure and the right services that we should provide because uh I guess you know a 20-year-old training is quite different than someone who's 70 and might not have done a lot of strenous exercise in the past what what I found and that's a bit uh contradictory to what uh what we heard about Ed's experience is that people are looking not just to to do exercise but always also for social social engagement and social interaction so I would try to come up with with with sites that that promote social contact not just exercise um uh and a diversity of activities cognitive activities social contact maybe you know some room to get together and think and exchange and uh and I think that that would be a better meteor than just a gym or you go there you train and you do some Fitness stuff and go back home and are governments receptive currently to these types of uh uh demands I don't know is there anyone for the government there but I don't know uh do you feel that you know as aging is is becoming more and more a uh an issue that's on the Forefront of public debate that I don't think we're there yet no I think that we're just realized that we're aging very fast and that in less than than 10 years from now uh one per person out of five will be 65 years old and that the growest segment the the fastest segment of the population that's growing faster than than all other segment is the 85 and older which was not existing 20 years from now I remember when I started doing aging research normal aging not doing you know dementia and stuff like that but just normal aging uh we couldn't find any uh studies with centenarian and now there's a bunch of them so it's moving really really fast uh maybe maybe we're getting older older faster than the public policy change I don't know at the same time the government want us to work longer that's right so we should um I I I was just curious um do you feel um that you still have anything to prove because it seems like uh running for you is such a uh an activity that that brings you so much um satisfaction in terms of recognition um do you still feel you have anything to prove oh yes uhhuh the um one that the when I when I first started running again when I was 40 there were no age groups and races in those days and uh whereas you have all these age groups now so you kind of look forward to your next Fifth Fifth birthday when you get to 85 there's a whole bunch of uh new to conquer there can you explain what the age groups are because not everyone here is a is a well there are fiveyear age groups which uh races typically give um some sort of prize for so age group 20 to 25 25 to 30 30 to 35 and and so on all the way up well as recently as I know 20 years ago it was rare that there was ever an age group over 50 but and 30 years ago there were none over 40 and now you have all these age groups going on you uh I go to on occasion go to World Champ track championships and you get the odd people person there in the over 95 who are uh running around most of them are not doing uh as much as 5 or 10,000 meters most of them are sprinters or throwers or something like that okay but you know um in in that respect um you know things things are progressing people you know a few years ago you you didn't see people that all doing things whereas you you do see that now um so so I suppose that's that's an advantage and certainly I mean the in spite of all the I don't know if there will ever be a reversal because of uh the amount of obesity which is prevalent now but I mean the a the average age is uh of um life expectancy is is still increasing yep that's partly I supposed using medicine and right now in your age category which is 80 to 85 is that um how many competitors do you have or not too many when I I went to the World Championship last last year no the year before last um um about uh about 10 people running against me something like that worldwide yes worldwide yes they come from all over okay so it's it's it's it's you're a very small group yes well of course part of that is the logistics you know it's uh it's relatively expensive to go to those things I mean you're not not a professional athlete being being sponsored on that sort of thing so everybody is basically paying their own way and if you're in Europe and these championships were in Sacramento it's fair fair cost for transportation living expenses and the entry fees and whatever have you it's uh a lot of people don't attend for those reasons and um I guess how how long do you plan or see yourself running uh I don't know you don't know as long as long as I can and um you know life life is what you say un certain I mean I'm I'm sort of traumatized by what went on in Boston forough SP wasn't the runners that got hurt it was Spectators but you know they had no thought that anything like that was going to happen to them and you know that's a completely lifechanging event for them I mean people Lo losing limbs like that I mean how do you face the I mean they never gave a thought to living like that that morning and then all of a sudden there you are so you know who who's how long will I run I don't anticipate I'll be blown up but you you know things happen you I I understand that you never run at Boston no I've never B why why not I mean it's it's considered the most prestigious race that's right it's the most famous um marathon race and um I I would like to run there in a way for the um for the atmos spere that that exists there but in most occasions when I've been running I've been trying to uh achieve some sort of record and uh the Boston course is not record legal so let's um in spite of it being the most famous of marathon um because it's the the start is higher greater altitude than the finish it is not a legal course because it's considered that is an advantage okay so basically I I like to run in races that uh start and finish at the same place I'm good at running around in circles um Louie where do you think that um research manone should be investment where where should we be investigating what is important to look now in terms of the effects of EX exercise on um well I I'd like to understand better our Ed work so I'd like to put some money in working on this no I no I was just amazed by by what he just said uh because he's really acting as a true athlete not running to stay healthy but really he has gold he's a he's a you know very high level really driven and and we know that everybody knows that that athletes don't don't do their sport to stay healthy of course I mean they as a matter of fact sometime it do the the reverse right U and I I just realized at some point and then back to your question where the money should go maybe it should go to how we can make people more active and and sustain their activity and make sure that they they will commit to this activity on the long run and and we don't ask oursel this question when we listen to Ed right I mean he has a goal he run for this goal and he will get it and uh that's that that's the big thing that we should Discover right right now why people are unactive and how can we make sure that they'll become more active but that's more social or sociology just it has to do with the brain as well yeah I mean the brain strive for something and then then your brain is always looking for good food or for good experience and and for a marathon runner uh a marathon is a wonderful experience and I'm sure after after probably not doing it but if you do it and keep doing it that's because it gives you something back at the end or maybe the morning after or maybe just knowing that you've you've broken your your past record or there's something there right and that I think that's there something there that I want to discover to make sure that everybody will run it's nice when you [Laughter] stop you you don't get a high at all no I've never suffered that maybe you're too high all the time that's right yeah I mean I mean it's um you know you feel kind of when you're at the end of a race when you're when you run well and you feel kind of euphoric then I suppose but just before the Finish Line most of the time it's uh kind of tough and uh the Euphoria comes when you cross the cross the line that's when it's when I feel good so so so the idea would be to get people to taste that Euphoria not necessarily a marathon Euphoria but that small the positive aspect and the Fulfillment aspect of being engaged in an activity and uh I don't know I mean that's I think that's the big challenge right now and are you optimistic for um what you're seeing right now what's being done or uh well I think there's more research than before uh it has to be maybe more connected with to the community to make sure that what's being done in lab because there's a lot of work done in the lab but but sometime it doesn't go back to the community and that doesn't change the way people age right now and as I said there we we do more research we have more fancy equipment to do sport but in fact people are less active than ever so I think there's a there's a big translational process that doesn't occur right now and what are the things that you you're doing in the lab that we like to transpose outside of the lab well I I I wish we could at least communicate the the major effect that we see when we scan a brain that that has done some exercise for six month and we do a pre- and post scan and see the difference between the two uh I wish people would see that and think about what's good for them in there um we don't we don't maybe it's I mean Ed air is not a good example because it's been running forever uh but if you take someone that doesn't do Sport and you changes life trying to make these people engage in in the regular exercise regimen you'll see huge effect and uh and what do you see what do you see exactly on the scans I mean well what and so it's not I'm not talking about my work but what some people have shown and good group in the US are working on this U they've shown that uh there's major microchange of course from metabol metaboli and some chemistry effect that the brains would benefit from but one of the most amazing thing that have been shown last year was an improvement in the size of some brain regions that are playing a critical role for memory and we know that most people would be concerned by their memory loss as we as as we go older um and what a group from Pittsburgh University have shown is that the hypoc campus which is a brain regions important for memory it's like the Hub of experience that would recreate memory would increase its size by doing regular exercise after 6 month in a year so it shows and and more than that they showed that in this group of I think it was 300 people they showed that the increase the npoc campus would predict better memory at the end so it shows it's we're starting to understand that there's some real effect on the brain that would help to prevent memory fall for example do you think you could come to a point where you could actually design a program to maintain your uh I wish we could I mean we're far from that right now uh all sort of exercise are good probably because the level of inactivity is so high that uh right now as you do some exercise you have some benefit but that would be a very nice goal for our research come up at the end with being able to prescribe exercise to a spec to a particular person being associated to or need and and or goal and say okay that's the type of exercise you need to go um I think um I would like maybe to open the floor to questions because I'm sure that Mr woodlock um a lot of people would be interested in maybe hearing a little bit more about his experience good evening hello there right there just in Fr hello thank you very much um uh I'm wondering maybe um the reason that people don't run is because running is an individual Pursuit it's very lonely maybe if the alumni were to organize something together for alumni people maybe we we we would go if if we found other people to do it with us we would go and just a word of advice coming from me because uh I'm a political junkie every aspect of Our Lives is a political decision you spoke today about the government has which has to be interested in the welfare of human beings and encourage this type of thing and every other aspect of Our Lives is a political decision and the best way to stay young is to get involved in politics that's the best way to [Applause] get another kind of sport another type of running yeah Miss yes I I have COPD I don't know if you know what that is and I do my exercises at the Center and I would like to know why there isn't more availability in the city of Montreal for seniors I don't know that I'm my question to you uh I don't know the the reason why there there's no facility like this I mean most of the facility that are running right now are sponsored by some uh bu that has some money to give in uh or some research project combination of both but there's no big decision to support this like I'm like I was saying uh the place that I go to is coming Center seniors I don't know if you're aware about that I know the coming Center I don't know where the money comes from though well we do pay a little okay but we don't pay uh full amount I can say I presume everything a lot of donations come probably but there should be more availability like I was saying by the government which would help seniors not only for COPD for various things I've seen people that couldn't even walk and they're there with strokes and after two years you see a difference yeah it's all that to do with exercise you don't have to do exercise like being a marathon runner and run your your heart at you do it at your ease and I think it's a lot uh very beneficial to you I've taken courses at that at the chest hospital and they say that exercise the best thing for you it helps your breathing certainly and without that you're a failure you'll go down the tubes so I'm just wondering if it you know or you can hear any about the government helping us I don't know we would have to we would have to ask to the Ministry of Health maybe uh yeah with your help thank you yes um uh Steven snow I'm the chair of the Department of creative arts therapies first of all thank you for this lovely evening it feels like a very Concordia thing um I spent the first six years of my care career in a nursing home and that was 25 years ago or so and most of my clients were between the ages of 75 and6 um my observation in those six years was there was a real relationship between vegetation and depression that is the more people sat around and did nothing the more depressed they got the more depressed they got the more they vegetated so I'm wondering if there's any I'm asking Dr barer as a neuropsychologist if there there's any research that really uh demon shows that that to be true what we see is that as you increase exercise level uh anywhere in real life but also in the in the housing facility you lower the risk of depression and anxiety as well so it goes with what you're saying and I remember a geriatrician who told me that the worst thing ever in in housing was The Lazy Boy you know that I'm talking about the furniture that yeah and uh that he was about to try to get rid of them all over the place because of course I mean I don't feel I should run right now you know I'm really comfortable so you're probably right yeah I would say it's a it's a very found observation and that's true even at 106 yeah I would say that's true and that's even that there's some studies showing that if you if you make sure that people do some a minimum of exercise you all also better control uh behaviors uh that are associated with dementia you know like rendering or or bad behaviors or or or anxiety they they become really really anxious uh at some point so just a minimum of physical activity is good for them although they don't I mean they've lost their memory they're confused sometime but exercise is a nice way to control their behavior thank you do you have a lazy boy I'm sorry do you have a lazy boy uh no no see I you I think so I'm basically a teacher so the last gentleman who said Just remember the rule if you don't use it you lose it that's right that's right my question is twofold one to Mr vlock and you have talked about exercise but there are two other components of the good health one of them is the diet and which you can control to a certain extent and the second was good genetics you have not talked about it and the same question to director that how can you isolate the exercise and diet and genetics in your research and what results did you find out is in terms of probability of effect of one over the others thank so start we start with Mr WL thanks well my brain's gone well how do we start off the question now was what about genetics right and uh diet the question of diet and genetics you did not mention I am not careful about my diet I um I wouldn't say I have an unhealthy diet but I wouldn't say that it uh it certainly do wouldn't meet uh the you know what um I say the organic uh I don't go for organic vegetables and all that kind of stuff I just um eat regular type food I I think I probably eat more carbohydrates than probably the average person I probably eat more fat than would be recommended and uh I probably eat less meat than most most people would but uh um I'm I say I don't really pay a lot of attention to it and uh um that's maybe I should but but I don't what do you eat before about genetics sir genetics uh yes well I'm sure that's very important I I'm not I'm not aware that um my parents were athletic at all but um I'm sure that um um my physique is not only you know because of the training but I what I've been naturally endowed with I'm kind of long and lean and that came as part of the package which is no thanks to me um yeah and we let directly talk about the research to see how did you isolate the tree yeah I can talk about genetic I won't talk about my diet uh uh it's it's really difficult to set numbers because the studies are very uh scarce but uh you can think of genetics playing a role anywhere between 30% to 50% in terms of prediction depending what you want to predict if you want to predict brain disease or physical uh Frailty um but the thing to keep in mind is that it's not because you have the gene the wrong or the good one that your life is good or bad uh in fact it's been shown that even the carrier of the gene that calls for dementia for example would benefit from exercise even in in some studies they would benefit even more than those who don't have this Gene so the the the genetic is one thing but the phenotype is another one so the way you the Gen the the gene is going to express itself in your in your real life so I I would I understand the question I think it's very important and I think that genetic is all over the place and that's something very important in our research right now to understand what is the role play by genetic but we should be careful because it's not because you have this bad Gene that you're going to end up with the with the disease that's associated with it and the diet I'm speaking like a teacher well it's good to eat well and then you can do what you want with this right that mean yeah yes okay I have a question again it's not a trick question but you I hope well I don't know the answer that's why I asked for it is there some benefits to be often outside your comfort zone when you train when you're like at 70 and older now I'll explain why I asked that is on one side I see that is talking that on one side I see that is telling I couldn't care less about my health it's performance on your side you say say well be active well there's a big spectrum between the two okay now some people if they have the genetics and they have the drive and they can go for performance well they'll go outside the comfort zone to try to perform and be the best now in your study did you see some people that were quite far behind Ed as a runner and yet healthier than him like in the sense as it seems that you portray Health with per for in this case here but is it true like can you just be I don't think you need to be a marathon runner and to break records that's for sure but you're probably I mean it's a it's a very good comment and and I'd let you bring this up because it's true that you need to be working outside your comfort zone that's a known thing you have to do that yeah and it's true for for for physical exercise you need to do vigorous exercise well I would I mean you have to be careful of course if you have medical condition to have sound advice on how what type of exercise you should be doing or avoid avoiding but it's also true for for brain exercise we know that you know it's good to have a cognitive stimulation on a regular basis as you age and and and look for different type of activities and we know that as someone mentioned use it or lose it so you need to use what you have but you also need to push the limit a bit and that's true for brain training as well so you mean that there'll be adaptation to stress at any age the brain never stop to adapt the brain never stopped changing and it's not changing all the in the bad way I mean it's changing it it's positively adapting uh itself to what you ask him to do or it to do can I ask the last question is that okay guys okay the last one is if which subsystem in your body is the weakest like which one will give up first if you're not active and which one will give up first if you're active by System you mean I mean nervous system muscular system tendons uh I I would be comfortable to or the filtering system or I I think there's so much difference between people that I don't I don't think there's one system who's breaking down the first now the reason why I say that is that if the muscles and tendons are the most durable ones running and being a fast runner at an Advan age is nice but maybe if it was another part of your body that would be deteriorating while you're using the strongest part then we would we would be doing another sport like maybe swimming or or biking or gardening or dancing or or even uh yeah dancing or social activities activities of the brain because that's the first one you lose that that's why I'm asking the question to see which I don't think it it's not always the first one you lose though I mean uh the brain is is an organ like the others it needs uh blood it needs oxygen and and and and and and uh and all the other nutrient that comes with with with blood and uh if you're healthy your brain is healthy if you're not healthy your brain is unhealthy and that one of the thing that we've discovered over the last couple of decades I would say is to bring back this notion that the brain is an organ and that it needs to be uh uh to be feeded by all the nutriment that the organism add um I was one of those 40-year-old doers who started at that point and uh lasted 20 years I wore out my parts uh and then wound up walking a lot so I was doing maybe five days a week for an hour I do a lot of walking with my wife and my pace is faster than her so my question is really about motivation to keep up with her I have to slow down um for her to keep up with me it makes it difficult um do I understand from what you said before that you really need sort of a malange of different kinds of activities swimming walking some strengthening in the gym stuff like that she say we're approaching 70 we're looking at that uh in order to keep the motivation going are you recommending maybe mix and match a lot of different things so that people are sort of connected to what they like and yet they're still doing it five days a week or so for you yeah I think it's a it's it's exactly what I I would recommend uh of course it depend upon your goal right if your goal is to break marathan recort no I want to stay alone just yeah if it's if it's staying healthy uh I like I like an analogy that uh it's made by one very great person in the US who founded the Institute of Aging in the United States Jean D Coen who passed away a couple of years ago and he he he pictured that in a in a book very uh nicely it was refering to the brain as we age as as a reserve of potential as for your Finance potential okay if you go and see your fin financial advisor he would say make sure you have a diversity of of of plasma right to make sure that it it it grow Investments investment thank you and uh Brian hi by the way and and uh it would say if if you put everything in the same basket you might lose I would say the same for exercise as you grow older because you if if you do just social exercise and people don't show up then you don't train if you do just personal exercise and you don't feel like this this morning you won't you won't go but if you're socially engaged in an exercise in a team for example you don't feel like this this morning but oh what what the other will think oh I should go cuz my friend are are going to show up so I will go the same for the weather it's a big concern in Quebec right the weather we actually we stop training uh activities during winter because we don't want people to fall when they come in the gym so of course you would have to to have some exercise that indoor exercise some outdoor exercise so de Jin Coen did did that very nice picture of of a brain Reserve that you should Place differently make sure that you have a variety of activities so that it grows it grows for the benefit of everything thank you and uh I'm Clive's age so I uh when I was you know running races with Clive back in high school I met you often at events in the' 70s and for high school kid like me you were an inspiration back in the 70s and I look at you now and I'm just amazed but just to put it in perspective and I told Louis this story a couple years ago um I used to live in Rochester New York and 10 years ago um I did a lot of training on uh skating and I'm watching this young whipper snapper fly around the ice and no matter how hard how much put effort I put into my skating this guy's putting no effort in flying finally I talked to him after his training I said how long you been doing this he goes well I'll tell you I've won a state or municipal or national championship at least once every decade since the 20s guy was born in 21 and he said said now let me explain to you son you're skating all wrong I was 41 I'd been skating since I was 2 I was doing it all wrong changed my skating entirely saw very very frequently in the six years I lived in Rochester and a few months before I came back to Montreal I actually kept up with him for an entire lap then I laid down on the ice like this just waiting for oxygen to find my lungs 5 minutes later when I could stand up again I caught up with him and I said Henry Henry did I actually keep up with you an 86-year-old Henry chardash puts his arms around 46-year-old me and goes son that was my warm down lap so don't stop EG you I told you that's that's a hard act to follow before I ask my question I just want to say that a couple of questions ago you had said uh what you have to do is go beyond your comfort zone I think that that is your answer to why don't most people do exercise who wants to go beyond their comfort zone and and and I I I think your answer is right there and and that's the Hub you know you know we've talked about all other aspects of getting people to do it social this that or the other but getting beyond your comfort zone we like pleasure you're Comfort the brain is well wired for that yeah we we want pleasure but that at the same time if we have if we set ourself goals that's where we might agree to go Bey the comfort zone in order to achieve this goal and that's why that's that's what Ed is doing when he runs right he wants to break a Rec so of course he would do that to break another record you know what he's in a different category yeah but that's that's true and you're right but what I'm saying is that for every one of us the challenge is to find a goal to to achieve if a goal is to live uh until you're 100 years old you will be ready to break your comfort zone to make sure that you achieve this goal what you have but first you need a goal and that's what I'm I'm I'm seeing you need you need more you need you need you need more than than a goal many people have goals they don't get there and um I'm being poked here suggesting that it's time for me to get off which I which I which I will do and I haven't asked my question but that's okay no no um go ahead go ahead it's okay um but what I want what I want to say is that you're probably aware of and other people are aware of the model psychological model called stages of change and you know maybe that's that's what needs to be happening I recently attended a lecture at the Montreal Neurological Institute where to everyone's great surprise we learned of a new phenomenon which is called use it and lose it apparently if you begin to show signs of Alzheimer and you are above average in intelligence you decline faster than the average this is a phenomenon we don't completely understand so to extrapolate into today's events I'm wondering what the effect is going to be since we have an epidemic of obesity in our society if we encourage all these obese people in our society including ourselves to suddenly start running and doing exercise if we look at even the young people today are not doing very much so surely as important as excise is and as the benefits of running may be there are some aspects of this that could be very dangerous unless we proceed with a certain amount of intelligence that part is correct so I'm wondering for per elaborate it's it's a nice it's a nice observation it's true that in some people that are really highly educated and very very bright people when they start to get dementia they they abruptly uh Decline and uh what What's probably the cause of that is that they were covering the disease for many many years and finding ways to overpass or to cover up this disease right so what what what you see is that they will maintain their functional capacity although the brain is as a strong disease and the brain is deprived from all sort of thing that's very important and and they maintain their functional capacity up to a certain point a breakdown point point my the way I think of it and most people think of it is that you maintain functional capacity the longer the better right of course at some point it's not as I said the font deance at some point we don't know the life expectancy of a human being right now we don't know the exact number at which at which we can expect to live right um so it's the same for exercise if you take a couch potato and this person just Lo L this functional capacity you wouldn't see you wouldn't see any difference right if you if if if something bad happened to Ed you'll see huge difference because he's running a marathon and the morning after you cannot anymore so I don't think we should think like this I think we should think of trying trying to keep up functional capacity as much as we can by all means and that's how most people would say they enjoy life and they report high quality of life because yes but at the same time if you speak orthopedic surgeons they tell you they love all the people with foot with broken bones and foot problems because they decided to suddenly become active after not doing anything for years what you're mentioning here is the the way we do it and you're right we should do it properly and maybe seeking for advice if we have not done that before uh and you're certainly right here we just have two more questions if you have the time thanks sure um thanks for your uh story uh the first part is a comment in my personal experience and then the second part is a question um I had a knee replacement two years ago and so before and after made a big difference like before I'd walk 500 MERS and I'd be sweating and now I can walk you know the other day I walked like 10 kilomet and it it was a lot better um so sometimes there's things that don't work that need to be repaired and also I'm using the rubber bands uh body elastic I don't know if you use those things but I find it very convenient if you're going to wait for the government to do something you know buy something that's really economical to be able to work out in your home it's helped me the second part is uh a question about uh like other cultures like you see like in Kenya I don't know if I'm picking the right culture culture like people seem to just run naturally um you know for long periods of time so what is it is it just just just because they naturally run all the time or have you done any Research into I was not involved in any research I don't know if you have analytical events related to that but I've heard that they run since they can walk right like we play Acky at two they start running right so it might have to do with with the experience I think you know that uh to some extent probably the fact that I'm can run as well as I do is um uh the the lifestyle I led when I was young um you my my parents didn't have a car you know went everywhere on a bicycle and you know would think nothing of going 100 miles on a bike not you know not just for exercise but as a means of transportation yeah and so you know there was and I think that applied to so much of the youth in in my day that um you know they're just naturally active and there's no doubt that these Kenyans the elite Runners of today you know benefit from living at altitude and they don't have any sophisticated training methods when they're young basically what they're doing is running to school every day and of course that translates into over the years I guess they've become genetically modified to to that kind of existence and uh um maybe we're heading down some disastrous path at the at the moment whereby we know we're going to be um have to have chairs twice as wide as they are now and then another confounding factor is the motivation of course because for those people becoming a marathan winner changes your life right like Houston B became very rich and famous uh for us you better try to play hockey if you want to be famous but I mean Ed is not sponsored as you said you're not sponsored right so sponsored you don't you don't do that for a living you cannot should ask I uh I mean you say to some EXT St I mean to whatever most of the commentary on me is always contained in the lifestyle sections of the newspaper and I don't like that I mean I I believe I'm I'm a sportsman and I should be in the sports section I can't compete with the Montreal Canadians yeah I couldn't agree more ed you're you're a fantastic Runner and but beyond that what I really see in you to admire is the drive and for so many of us um that's what is making us do what we do I I also am a runner um and um I'd say that framing the conversation along the lines of just getting physical is too limiting that whatever brings you to engagement in whatever it is be it art or or or U physical activity what if you have a goal and a drive then even doing those things that aren't conventionally looked upon as being physical become physical because you have to do things to get to get to those to do the achievements to do the things that you want to do so that that would just be my view on some as part of this conversation but I'd like to ask you a running question since I don't know if you had one um I also came to running late in my life and I'm terribly attracted and tempted by your unconventional regime and I think in the beginning of your talk you sort of suggested that that might be uh sort of of a viable path for some of us in a way to improve and I'm wondering if you might have some more to say about that what if instead of the normal thing that we're taught to do or that we do do uh let's say a track evening and then a long run and and all the other things that are part of a conventional routine we start to contemplate something like a regular run every single day would you have any thoughts on that for runners well um um I I don't I I don't like to tell people what they ought to do and um therefore I would couldn't be a good coach and uh I am not sure that what I do uh would work for everybody um you know I'm always happy to say what I do I have no no particular secrets I'm willing to say what I do but I don't I don't say to other people well you should do that everyone has to find what works for them so um I guess in general um the coaches don't like me because um I mean there's um there's no need for coaches you just go out bad boy you don't you don't um you don't have structured workouts and all that type of thing but I but I don't mean to say from that that that is no good I I'm sure that if probably if I were at the elite level you know at a younger age um and had you know Entourage around me of um therapists of various sorts and taking continuous blood samples and all kinds of stuff like that maybe I'd run better than I do but um I'm kind of um still sort of believe in amateurism I'm I run for I run for fun basically I don't run for um I think it's unfortunate that the degree of um you know the the prize money has has entered into it I think that is part of the cause of all the problems with drugs for for runners and um I think that's a Scourge I have my doubts about the validity of a lot of elite performances by by Young Runners I I really wonder what stuff they're on um so and I say I think I think that comes from you know the you know we moved a long way away from uh the ethos of Mr banister and the 4minute mile he was a totally different sort of character to what the elite Runners are today but not just I'm not just talking about the the Africans I'm talking about the Europeans also Europeans North Americans well I think we've come full circle because you started running because you didn't want to be a coach and so on this I would invite Mr Carr to give the concluding remarks to uh tonight's talk thanks very much Sophie I guess I'm a little conscious of the time that we just spent an hour and a half sitting in a couch and Ed would have run a half marathon in that time um so before I ask you all to uh join me in thanking uh Ed and Louie and uh and Sophie for a really wonderful evening I just want to share uh a little um story with you and that is that uh when we invited Ed to uh to come to Concordia and participate in this uh in this series we discussed the possibility of offering him an honorarium and and he simply declined and suggested that we could use the money and should reinvest the money in the University so when Louie heard about this uh he proposed that in fact uh Concordia uh take the money that it was going to offer at as an honorarium and instead use it to support a student who would do uh research that reflects Ed's dedication to living a healthy lifestyle so to honor Ed's generosity we've created the Ed Whitlock Fellowship which will be awarded to a graduate student pursuing research in the area of preventive health and lifestyle management and the perform Center has also provided additional funding to ensure uh that that student will be funded for an additional year so on behalf of Concordia I would like to thank Ed and and uh before all of you uh run off um I would like to thank you for attending um this final uh conversation in the Concordia glob and mail series on living well and staying healthy and I want to particularly thank our Partners the the glob and mail for uh what has been a really uh exciting series uh over the last few months but right now I'd ask all of you to join me in giving a warm round of uh appreciation and Applause for Ed Whitlock we better thank you very much better than the sports fa

Channel: Concordia University

Views: 13,217

Keywords: Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Globe and Mail, running, lifestyle, aging, exersice

Id: 65dNE_BMTNc

Length: 87min 15sec (5235 seconds)

Published: Wed May 22 2013