Live with Dr Subramanian Swamy on #Afghanistan | Taliban’s true colours revealed & the ramifications

namaskar i am sri ayer your host from pgurus.com today i have with me a very eminent personality who is going to be sharing his views on what is playing out in afghanistan my guest today is dr subramanian swami he needs no introduction he was a former union minister of law commerce and justice and is currently a member of the rajya sabha dr swami namaskaram and welcome to pigura's channel yeah pleasure to be here thank you sir and uh viewers before i start dr swami to weigh in on his observations i want to just set the context here for those of you young india for example as to what has been happening in afghanistan for the past several years we must remember that the russians invaded afghanistan in 1979 and in the 80s the united states funded what is currently the resistance people the same set of people the probably one generation before they funded them with arms and equipment and that was uh you know uh instrumental in driving the russians out the one flaw that happened at that point is that u.s stopped funding afghanistan as soon as the russians left and therefore afghan didn't have anything to pick up their lives they didn't have any infrastructure us should have persisted with funding their colleges infrastructure and so on they didn't do that and then there was a small vacuum and then u.s resumed funding but when they resumed the funding they did not give it to taliban they gave it to pakistan and let pakistan control afghanistan through what is now called as the taliban this was a proxy war and and taliban started becoming the face of pakistan now let's fast forward to the present what happened uh two weeks ago the last contingent of 2500 soldiers of united states left in the middle of the night from bagram airplace in fact they left without even informing the afghan authorities who came in the morning after several hours of you know the place being vacant and looting starting to take place before they could come in and take control now the hard facts that i have gathered from looking at a various uh documents and videos that is that there were along with these 2 500 soldiers about 8 000 contingent from eu also left and also left was 16 000 consultants who were keeping the afghan air force up and running they were also removed the same night the last contingent left and now many of them are sitting in the middle east and saying oh don't worry afghan friends we will help you from here using zoom so this this is the kind of support that they wanted to give now it is important also to remember that kabul did not fall the u.s just walked away the real afghan force is much less than 300 000 with some estimates saying that only 30 000 is the elite force and they are spread all over the country so that kind of explains to you first of all there was padding in terms of how many people were actually in the force second is during these things you know this uh the armed forces became a place to provide employment not actually you know to give it to the people who are fit enough to get employed so a lot of things went wrong there but more importantly days before this actual thing happened someone who is privy to the letters written by the secretary of state blinken and other u.s officials to ashraf ghani said that the tone in these letters was that the afghan square like errant little children so very very you know lecturing thing but then the us has really left it in a big mess now let us take a look at what is in on the ground on afghanistan you have al-qaeda and taliban so what is the difference you ask and could the same people have morphed from al qaeda to taliban to isis so all these are questions that i'm placing because dr swami has all the information on his fingertips and he's going to share what he thinks is happening here now the other important data factor data point that i want to place in front of viewers i won't take long the united states hardly lost anyone in the past 18 months and the uk that is united kingdom even longer they have not had a fatality that is what i'm trying to say is the last two three years peace was being kept with all these people in their respective barracks and only helping or supposedly training the afghan forces to keep the taliban in check yet the u.s pulled out abruptly not even informing the afghan government about their exit so what is it that the us is not telling the world so this is where i would like to stop and invite dr swami for his initial comments on what he sees how does he think that you know foreign forces you know tried to i would say in double quotes help afghanistan and have they helped or harmed them answer your thoughts well first i would say that i've been to afghanistan once and that was in january 1991 as a minister of commerce and of course law and justice and the at that time there were the man who was uh heading the government there was najibullah he was originally set up by the russians but then the russians pulled out and and then you know shut down all the assistance to him and he was he managed for some time quite alone but he was very keen that india should you know take interest in afghanistan and he was sure that if india you know moved in with troops uh taliban would be no match for it and he himself was a terrific fighter and very strong man but unfortunately at that time uh the chandrasekhar government had just come in and you know we couldn't we didn't have enough time and by time i came back and made a proposal and we got it through the cabinet committee on political affairs uh our government actually fell so and najibullah was then hanged publicly by the taliban who took it over brutally they chopped him up killed him or it was horrible they just want to make an example of it now over the years we have had afghan fighters who have come to india and they met me also and they you know wanted me to put in a word to the government and that was the northern uh what is called the northern alliance it's a misnomer because are actually all over they're all over afghanistan but they are strongest in the northern part which is called northern area or something like that and they're they are very well entrenched and neither the previous uh taliban number one or taliban one could do anything to them now not these two people now taliban too will be able to anything they are there and they are alive and but you know they need supplies they need support and therefore i think we must know that taliban taking over this time not alone after defeating the russians and the americans then packing up the bags and leaving now taliban has got pakistan on their side they have got china and of course china's junior partner is russia so russia is also with them and these uh this forms a very formidable combination and this combination would affect india most because who's pakistan against india who's china against today it's india russia it doesn't count because they are junior partners uh you know they may make any noise and we may get them confused with the soviet union soviet union was a huge area and uh it was a communist country uh putin is a dictator he has no ideology he was a kgb agent yes but he had no ideology known to have any ideology and he is a complete dictator but they were bankrupt so they relied on chinese money and the chinese are very smart people they first give you money easily and then afterwards they put the news around you and so uh the the russians have been many many decisions and it's now well established even people who are a foreign secretary like which i go clay has written a book about the fact that they are junior partners and in every other they'll make a noise but the fact is the bottom line is there with the china so we have a very solid group which and pakistan and china are good friends they've been good friends for a long long time and they you know their pakistan is no match for china and like india which is always a threat that it might be a challenger so pakistan taliban and and china that makes a terrible combination for us and this taliban is one that has survived in pakistan this is the worst or what i shall say the biggest paradox that the united states was fighting taliban in afghanistan but united states favorite long-term favorite of military alliance was pakistan so pakistan was also helping a united states but in if it was bringing salary to taliban so taliban prospered essentially over the years and survived all the american bombings and all that because they were hiding in in pakistan so now we have a situation where uh a anti-indian force have now become a mighty combination and uh we have to deal with this i mean can't deal with it the way um mr uh jaishankar or mr the world would like going running at it you know at the moment's notice the runto of our conference and they are kept outside the room and for instance in doha the americans the pakistanis and the taliban they negotiated the whole thing nobody else was there and india was outside uh and then after everything was decided and confirmed and announced then the indians were brought in to say hello to them so i mean indians are nowhere in this absolutely and they are in uh you know tight spot because we in the united nations we may be for one month the chairman but actually in the united nations we have given the chairmanship of taliban as a terrorist organization i mean there is a committee to set up to you know study the terrorist activities of of taliban and now we are getting nervous you know because the our people are all great uh uh table uh chanakya's who say we will move master stroke of mr men modi will be that we'll make friends with taliban you can't make friends with taliban they're a hard core islamic organization and in that there's no room for any other religion as far as china is concerned yes long term china could have problems with taliban but taliban needs money and china is giving a lot of money and and therefore they have to keep quiet on what's happening in xinjiang where the muslims are getting third degrees so therefore uh the the question that you pose is that what should be a posture a posture should be to treat taliban as an enemy and find out who is there anybody there who can challenge them and support them so i would say this h or s i think l e s-a-l-e-h but please go ahead and we all know who you're talking about yeah yeah he was you know he's a very bright guy he was the intelligence chief of of uh the this this outgoing government of ghani and he's well educated and he has become the number two and the masood who was leading the alliance earlier his son is now taking over because masood was assassinated by a trick taliban got there so in this context we have two days before 9 11 i should add days india who met many of us who are members of parliament to see whether we could uh you know uh help them out but uh but you know he was assassinated now his son is grown up and he is now taken charge and he has been very categoric he said no i don't accept taliban is the legitimate government and we need to the it's a pity that we don't have poke with us because pok has a border with uh with afghanistan at the moment we don't have a border of course afghanistan we we have some pluses on it one is during mahabharata shakuni also came from afghanistan and and gandali also came from kandahar i mean the queen of hastinapur she also came she was princesses she came from there so uh it has been a part of india for a very long time anyway before you know that we came to this century this this millennium but uh ranjit singh went and conquered them and there were many any other many others who who attacked afghanistan and took it over and was ruled uh by by them for many many years so we are the only country which has been able to fight afghanistanis and win and um ranjit singh is a example where it was you know it's an outstanding victory so therefore uh uh and if you could talk to the ordinary afghanis they love our music they they are people who want to come and get educated in india in fact most of the leaders of this last 20 years government uh were educated in in india and got degrees in india for instance uh the previous uh president he was he got a degree he said their foreign affairs minister abdullah abdullah i think his name was he was also from india so they the the india's connections in terms of uh of of their uh um or shall i say emotional connections with these people has been very strong so if there's anybody who can save afghanistan it was india so before you know i allow you to make an intervention and ask me for the questions before we go to uh to conclude but the fact is this that if there's anyone who will be welcomed by the people of afghanistan it's india and if there's anyone logistically the best place after uh you know i mean amongst those who can befriend these people is india the question is india needs a nerve and there's no doubt that if we send soldiers to afghanistan they will die but they have died in galwan they have died in uh in fighting in ladakh where they died in 1962 they died in 1965. it's a it's a great pity all we can do is to mitigate that by seeing that their families don't suffer and their children and all they get free education and they get enough stipend uh for their wife to think and they have a place to stay they don't they if that is there then all the soldiers themselves i myself have talked to soldiers the time of cargill said do you feel upset that you might be fighting for a small amount of land and get killed he said no if you look after a family we are absolutely ready now here you put a lovely map of afghanistan uh this the thin strip is actually below it is p okay so if your gaze was there then we would have had a border with uh afghanistan there i've seen that yes which is called uh uh i think uh uh uh national park yes yes yes yes yes yes so this uh this area is and then you know that means all the whole of afghanistan will be accessible through that but we don't have p okay so therefore we don't have any direct connection but still i mean if we have to go fly people there it could be done moreover if you look at the other countries they are also friendly with india and also hostile to pakistan tazakistan then you have kazakhstan then you have uh oh oh uzbekistan so all these these stands are uh well disposed to india and we have lots of engineers and so on working there so i would say that this moment of truth has come for us i mean you can't just go on i mean it's very sad that china turned hostile and took over our territory and this charity was mutually agreed as indian territory for the time being namely when 1993 we decided that till the dispute is settled uh we will carve out areas which should be administered by these us to us two countries namely india and china so aksai chin went to china and the others the ladakh part came to india and yet china crossed that line of control which they have signed it's a mutually agreed i think the lac and came and captured our territory so we should have responded militarily the only time we responded military we got to give them a bashing and that was in galwan and but since then the chinese are approached by the crouching method so we we have all these diplomats saying we will talk we'll go to russia and have a talk and so on and then they say okay uh both of us will withdraw uh 220 kilometers each of the of each other and then the moment we withdraw within a short time china just comes and fills the gap and then we again shout and scream again i have another meeting and again we agreed to do you know draw back another 20 kilometers so this uh this uh i mean this is the most incompetent handling of china i've ever seen in any part of the world uh probably as bad as what happened in 1962 but this is happening now so we have to therefore get a attitude that look our land will fight back even in kashmir because of so much pressure by the party they decide to remove 370. but once they're there no rules have been framed nothing has been framed and uh you know there's no elected government there are all kinds of problems and now with the taliban pakistan occupied kashmir the kashmir problem is going to be a terrible problem for you because the the people there already those people were in the political field earlier in kashmir our kashmir they are now become very bitter they could easily start you know intermingling with this taliban and i'm afraid we have got a major national security problem taliban coming is not only good for uh for the militants in afghanistan but also equally important for india it's been a very very very negative development for us for which we have to now decide how to go about it i don't think you want you want or you will get the americans to get interested in afghanistan again but the americans would like india to administer a defeat to a country like china and perhaps they may become now more clear about pakistan pakistan has made a complete fool of the united states they have done done small things like osama bin laden you know telling where he is hiding but at the same time they have given complete sanctuary to taliban and so america was fighting taliban in afghanistan and their principal ally in this region was playing host to taliban and that's why the the taliban suddenly there was a surge how because they were all living in pakistan they just crossed across it meant even when uh you know we were dealing with in this uh when they our indian airlines plane was hijacked taliban actually was brought in there by vehicles provided by pakistan and so uh i think we have to understand we are totally isolated in this area but we are strong enough to fight them because the terrain is in our favor particularly with china the terror is in our favor pakistan by itself is nothing and we have shown that in the past and therefore we must prepare to liberate afghanistan that should be a policy it may take 10 years 15 years whatever but the planning will start we must evict china from ladakh that will have a huge message for even taliban that we could do this because at this moment we have got a very very bad image because they're having occupied our territory we are all the time suing them for peace and meetings and this is something which has hurt our image in a very big way so to begin with i would like these points and then after hearing you she guru i mean i would you are a guru also but anyway i i would like to then respond and continue the discussion further sir i have the map back up again and i want to draw your attention to this small spot called torah it is at the very to the east very close to jalalabad and it is where the border of afghanistan and pakistan is sir in late 2001 the u.s within a matter of weeks was able to drive taliban out of power in kabul and they had osama bin laden completely locked in caves in torabura now the story i'm hearing and i just want you to tell the viewers what you thought happened the story i'm hearing is at that point there were many warlords like the ones that we have now who told us don't worry you let us go in and catch that rascal and we'll bring him out to you and you are politely waited outside the doors or the outside the caves and these guys escaped him and he went and hold up for another 11 years you were yours couldn't get their hands on uh that's right so so how could the us be so naive that's what i think when i come to know of this the question that i asked was look this is the perpetrator of the 911 why didn't you just finish him off why did you wake up the gates so what is how's your recollection of what happened at that time sir so you see the thing is that the pakistanis were the first one to strike have a defense plan i mean defense agreement with the united states the height of the u.s soviet union cold war that's 1952-53 and then pakistan is very good in public relations they cultivated the us military and the us military supported the pakistan people the pakistanis have a terrific lobby in the united states i remember during my years uh the pakistanis were able to talk to 50 senators within within half a day i mean just by become a phone they would come to our the coffee room or whatever in the senate and uh you know they would discuss and i'm sure for the their campaigns they gave money they were flushed with money they were he naturally because there was no accountability so the isi and all these people did it so it in america you live in america you know that there's no such thing as one man deciding or a group of people with one view it's a in that sense a you know a democratic country but as a consequence lobbies can play havoc with decision making in in in the united states now here is a thing which india was with the soviet union at that time and there was a you know where the soviets were the principal enemy of the british i excuse you of the americans and consequently the american public opinion everybody was with the pakistanis and uh and india you know were seen to be people who are stooges of the soviet union so so this grew and then pakistan is then built you know in deep into the establishment and particularly the military establishment and that is how they use their manipulated i think you have seen the end of that relationship now because the shock they have got when they found that thousands and thousands of taliban soldiers just crossed the pakistani border and came to afghanistan and the speed with which they were they were able to come and occupy uh occupy uh kabul is you know is literally unbelievable and under what assurance did the americans give up that the most modern military airport in the whole world and the americans just walked off leaving everything there including the aircrafts yes yes on whose word no they were not admitted today but i'm telling you it'll come out in time that it was on the pakistan assurance that the taliban will not take this airport and this airport could be continued to be used later on so this uh this time they have been tilted and you know that when in a romance jilting takes place it's deadly so uh the pakistan american lands uh romance is over but you can't do benefit that unless india is ready to fill the vacuum the americans are not going to come back to afghanistan and so if you want the americans to feel secure you have to play an active role now so therefore it is no use in today in talking in terms of americans falling out with pakistan because the americans just will stay off they you know they said i'll let them all go to hell we have to take over this national alliance we have to build them we have to give them weaponry we have to give them intelligence we have to give them links to international issues so i think we need an activist indian government not one which just goes on cocktail parties and and gets carried away by praise which our newspapers dutifully reproduce in the front page first headline so we have to now thinking seriously in terms of our security in which we mean as the american says put your money where your mouth is that is exactly what we have to do absolutely sir and with your indulgence i will put up the map again because i want to show where this resistance is coming from and it is coming in the area called punjashir valley and viewers you can see the i'm i'm pointing my mouse right at this place punjashir valley and this is a narrow strip of land which is very difficult for you know like tanks or others to navigate inside that sir i'm going to blow it up even more so that you can create more clearly so now you can see that that area is where the resistance is completely rooted uh we are trying to use a mouse to circle it and this is this is where um both sale as well as masood they're all there and now taliban is sending some of their best fighters to try and stop them there or perhaps go in and and try to take control there are three or four districts in that area that they are controlling so the question is even if assuming india does say that okay i want to play a role in this we need to have some way to access this area it is believed that they can stay there indefinitely it is self-sufficient in terms of food production it's a very fertile valley it's very self-sufficient so the the for the people there they can hang tough but the point now is how does india get there the only thing i can think of that is close by is tajikistan how are india's relationships with tajikistan well it's uh i mean they are by they are not in by any means uh comfortable with the rise of taliban in that case it will be we have a presence there we have lots of workers a lot of engineers and so on there and tajikistan uzbekistan uzbekistan we have a pretty good relationship so all these uh uh um you know uh these thans that are there four or five of them they'll all be supportive because they don't want they may not be supportive after we say defeat the taliban uh but there were would be during the time we are fighting the taliban be very supportive and through that we can easily reach uh the northern alliance in fact the non-alliance lead to leaders they themselves can fly to any of these countries or travel to any of these countries so that that is there and uh yes you have correctly pointed out uh that the we the these neighboring countries are required if we want to make serious uh worthwhile contact with the northern alliance leaders and viewers uh just wanted to let you know that dr swami is taking questions today in this session but please only ask questions about afghanistan and this topic stay keep the questions to this topic and we will make sure that at least many of them are answered because we are still about i would say about more than halfway through the discussion here because there is a lot of interesting stuff still coming out and i want you to stay tuned do like share and become a member of p guru's channel it will help us give you quality programming uh dr swami has given us a generous gift of his time by agreeing to come on this show and to that end we want to make sure that we present you the viewer with the maximum possible knowledge gyan that you can take by listening to somebody who has seen it all for over 50 years being in active politics and and dr swami i have a next question which is a little bit different and i just want to pick your brains on this earth sir this the fact that u.s brought taliban to the negotiating table this was made possible by qatar qatar said look we will stand for making sure that taliban will hold their end of the bargain and that's how this is during trump's time when the the the talks resume with taliban so to say and they started they stopped they started the stock finally an agreement was reached the problem that happened was the agreement was reached but the way the troop withdrawal was going to be done was that a certain sequence which was not followed under the biden administration the battle administration just abruptly pulled its roots and then went now my question to you sir is you know many people across the world many of them perhaps are your student what is qatar doing today there is not a single peep of information coming out of them no statement why is the u.s not saying look qatar guys you have to make taliban hold their end of the bargain what is going on sir what can you rid this puzzle for us qatar is no match for uh taliban and make them do that say uncle white to stick their arm no see look at this i mean look at the gullibility of the americans the americans told many people on the back channel and it reached me also that the taliban has promised that under no circumstances they will allow al-qaeda to research and the americans said that's the one emotional thing for us americans that if taliban promotes and gives safe safe haven to al-qaeda then the whole of the united states will revolt because of what happened in 1911 and therefore the taliban gave that promotion hardly a few days have gone after august 15th when the taliban arrived in kabul that al qaeda has already started emerging we may not be seeing in the media just now but i have information from our own people who are there have just come they say no al qaeda has reared his head they are building their offices and so on so if the taliban can betray the united states of america then what is it what can qatar do you see second is that the americans said we may have to say beyond august 30th what is the taliban said well then we will have to attack you you cannot stay beyond august 30th now imagine the language that taliban is now speaking to the americans who literally you know walked off the uh battlefield for them to occupy so therefore you know there is no there's no country which can you know which may have promised what about pakistan pakistan is the one that did all the chaperoning and so uh will the americans now turn against pakistan there's a big demand within the united states policy makers that now pakistan should be taught a lesson there's only one way let the indians reoccupy pok and help us whatever internationally has to be done whatever veto has to be applied in the u.n security council but otherwise the only hope the united states has is that india becomes an aggressive country and that is not is not something we can take for granted because the present mindset of our leadership in india is that all this master stroke thing for some time they were trying to make that modi and and taliban have come to an understanding till the taliban take them off and we are we are a country which which is opposed to pakistan and therefore taliban cannot be friendly with you so the short answer to your question is there's no point in doing anything to qatar because the qatar has his limits it played host and we gave you all the facilities for meetings but other than that what qatar can do and to americans to expect that they they can be hold held accountable that would be immature on that part and so the next question is with foreign funds frozen how will the taliban run the country would it be courtesy of uncle xi jinping yeah he has already announced that we are going to give finances to afghanistan and you must know that just before i think four days before kabul went to taliban there was a high power delegation number two who is number two in beijing and the way they wind and dine them so therefore the more you shut off their finances they the more the chinese will give you and what is it chinese giving cash doesn't mean they're giving the dollars they'll give them in kind correct correct they'll give you food they'll give you this they'll give you that they'll give you weapons they'll give you of course they don't have to give them airplanes because the americans have all the planes there for them to take but the chinese may exchange it with their their planes because the chinese want to study the the aeronautics of the american planes so i would say that absolutely no problem pakistan will be shown its place they will not be able to deliver anything and uh to um given that the all the thinking people are all fled afghanistan uh the only only way that now we can restore the position as i go back that national and then the northern alliance we have to find a way to support them and you know slowly get into confrontation with taliban and defeat them of which we can play a role uh just an interesting thing there dr swami um the national alliance was a name a term coined by the pakistanis so that alliance themselves like to call up themselves as united alliance yes they think they recruit in a few weeks no no no i i know about that and the pakistanis wanted to say there's some corners something is happening right so that's why they call it the northern alliance um so uh uh i i i know that the the the people like masood and all resent it but the fact is that that's because it's so much in currency i've used it in this thing otherwise i would have also like to say national alliance or united alliance whichever the they prefer um and the fact is that they have people but in the northern part they can they are more secure because the this geographic is geography is such that they are masters of it and taliban can never be able to uh you know navigate that uh area uh with ease they'll just get killed in the process you know located and killed by by the masood people so the next question is a little bit interesting but it is right up your alley because you have a lot of experience in this i just want to run by you what happened a few days ago the taliban ransacked india's consulates in a couple of cities and took away documents evidently and also the park cars because they were bulletproof now i have a question for you sir they say that all indians have evacuated these consulates because only the local people who are manning the place should this be construed by india as a uh as an attack on its premises because we have to keep in mind every consulate is belongs to the country whose consulate is in that place what are your thoughts it doesn't matter what india portrays it as the question is what is your retaliatory power in you know in dealing with the barbarians like uh taliban the only language they understand is retaliation and uh if you are not able to you you ran away from your embassies you couldn't even take your secret papers i believe even in in kabul they have you know raided your embassy and taken away all the documents uh so and and those documents will may not leave you stay with taliban it will go to pakistan because pakistan is the one that's most interested in that so yeah you know don't expect i mean if india's mindset changes that we are going to support the united the states alliance that's from this program onwards from this stage onwards start only referring to is the united airline of alliance this united alliance if we support them that will be a major statement of value and then if you follow it up with substantial uh support on the ground i think then we are a player in the in the in the matter and then maybe the americans also will like would would agree to support you so would the japanese so would the australians the for you know uh these countries which are part of quad but if you don't do your position is already terrible you know that the americans formed a quad for afghanistan india is not not in it pakistan is in it china is in it then the russians formed a a body again india is not in it so all the anti-american people were saying oh americans are like this and all now what are they going to say they are all russian people our these anti-american people are mostly people who have been brought up by the soviet union and now hanging on to russia so i'm saying that today uh india's has no value unless there is some way you show your permanent your intention to alter the situation and i tell you as i said and i'm going to repeat again that the only way you can show the world so taliban that you mean business you are taking it very thing is to support uh masood as a masood son and this uh uh yes so so the next question is also very interesting sir um you mentioned about the number two of taliban being given a very good reception in china and you can construe that as an indirect way that china has recognized taliban whether they officially come out and say this or not we have to assume that we also know that russia being a subservient country to china will probably do soon now today's news is iran has started allowing oil to flow into afghanistan so essentially iran which is a shia country is now saying that okay you know we will allow you to get the the oil the crew and it is expected that the united arab emirates may follow soon soon because see what is happening is all these countries one by one one like a domino you know they're all saying okay yeah these guys are there but we have our business interests you know let's whatever it is you know hold your nose and do it whatever it is sir my question to you sir is if india recognizes taliban and then taliban sends one of the people who are involved in planning the 1999 hijacking as the ambassador what kind of a slap that would be to india india if it recognizes taliban government then forget about india playing any role at all we will be hated by everybody after all you must remember although we didn't send troops to afghanistan we gave them libraries we built their parliament we gave them hospitals we gave them so many other things and now to turn around and the very people who destroyed all that you're going to recognize them i'll be terrible i would say that you know in what way is uh you can there's no way you can appeal to taliban because the the more conciliatory you sound the more they will insult you uh i don't think that at any stage they have acknowledged that india did anything for afghanistan's people in terms of hospitals and libraries and so on so forth they haven't done that at all and they will not do it because of pakistan they they in the long run they may even subvert pakistan and make it into a talibanized country but the as of now they are people who you know make sure that they are on the good side of pakistan and they will do it according to pakistan china has been very careful because there is always this question that tomorrow taliban becomes very strong very entrenched will they not raise up the sink young matter so that is something which uh which troubles them uh second according to i mean i have no no sources now to tell me what they really think in china but i have talked to american scholars they think that the chinese do feel that it's only a matter of time before taliban starts talking about uh what's what's happening in uh in xinjiang and that would be a matter of great disturbance for them so we are dealing essentially with uh islamic extremism and not a an axis of evil so to speak now you talked about iran i have been to iran at the heyday of my friendship with israel and when they invited me to visit iran and i went to tehran i had many programs including addresses the university meeting their top leaders but i did ask them that i'm such a good friend of israel how is it that you invited me they said well you are dealing with this on a bilateral you deal with us because i had said some good things about iran earlier they said you have dealt with us and the israelis as bilateral matters and you have not allowed it to be interfered so that's why we are doing it the reason i'm telling you is that when the americans put sanctions on iran recently what did they do they told us you want to be friends with us stop buying oil from iran which is much cheaper and we stopped buying if we could pay for it in rupees yeah absolutely on top of that when we are having chabahar we are supposed to be building a port for them which they said after that you can have you know first first preference in all your uh you know your freight movements all that you have given up just because the americans told you we will take it or miss if you continue to trade oil i mean you you unilaterally the americans unilaterally decide to put sanctions on iran and then they say listen you want to be our friends then stop buying oil and it was we are now buying our oil at three four times more as expensive as we are paying for iran with much higher transportation cost what do you call this doesn't come in the newspapers i don't know whether you've seen the news i have not seen it it's such a big thing you see and we are paying so much for oil now and so don't expect countries to respect you if you don't stand with them in difficult times that goes with human beings also you can make only good friends if you stand up with your friend who is in difficult times but at that time because some guys give you a dirty stare you you chicken and go and do exactly what they want to do nobody will have respect for you um sir my uh understanding is uh having been on the other side of this equation being from u.s is that the united states told india if you stop buying from iran we will supply you crude from our reserve strategic reserves and we will also store it for you so that you can draw down as and when you want and we are going to give it to you free i don't know so these are the terms of the agreement that somebody told me i'm not 100 sure i would expect somebody from the government to give this clarification because whatever it is the truth it's okay go ahead and come and say it out because what one problem is see this price at the pump of petrol and diesel is a big big problem why isn't the government trying to be transparent and say that okay we have to stop here on this day abruptly this is how this was you know uh you know replaced by this supply from these people this is how it is coming in so much is the net outflow of foreign exchange for buying crude because now we are not buying in rupees you're buying it in dollars these are all data that is easy to share that everybody will understand and they may even support you saying it's okay you can put 110 rupees as long as you can tell us 10 rupees goes towards building uh our arms or roads towards the border i don't know what it is but what i'm trying to say sir is these things the government can be transparent i don't know why they don't want to do that then i'll leave it at that i have a last question let me add to what you're saying yes sir you want to be with the americans and quad but you are not agreeing to the americans asking you to cancel the s 400 contract why why the americans asking they are saying that the s 400 is produced by the russians with chinese electronics and if you get s 400 you will have to get chinese engineers to come and service they think because you are not yet equipped for that and we don't know what the chinese would put into that electronics you can already see chinese are giving you a warning when they shut down your electricity in bombay and said we can do this to you too i mean they owned up that bombay thing yes yes so your mind is not clear everybody knows that russia is a junior partner of china everybody knows that the americans now are thirsting for some kind of retribution for the chinese i mean they may may be sophisticated in their dealing with china but the fact is that is the bottom line with them you want to be part of quad what's the difficulty in uh canceling s 400 and the americans will give you an american will give you much better things you know after all this is just a matter of fitting some rockets onto your aeroplane that is what s 400 is all about so how is these decisions made we want to show that we are friends with everybody and therefore a natural candidate for nobel peace price i don't think vision is more than that i was going to say that you know this will not guarantee you no whole price but you already plucked the words out of my mouth um dr swami last question yeah one of one of the members of parliament who opposed the caa tooth and nail through after it was passed and you know made a lot of noise now has turned around and said no no no caa is needed the caa must be the cutoff date might be extended from december 31st 2014 to sometime in 2021. so these are the people i'm telling you these are the people who took to the streets and and made a ruckus in the parliament when the cia bill was passed and now this person is asking you know extend the cia to 2021 you have thought sir this is my last question why don't you name him oh i can why i don't want to give credit uselessly for people who you know why why should i give that person a credit sir if your man is done there's some assault if there's no credit okay so so if you since you asked his name is mahendra singh oh okay well you see the question is uh i don't think it doesn't matter if any member of parliament is opposed to cia because it was passed by parliament and i spoke on that issue i know it very well and it's all that all that is said against it is all rubbish there is nothing against muslims in that at all i in fact had one under secretary general that is the number two man in the united nations who held a press conference to say that i had targeted the muslims by making this statement i was flattered that he took my name and held a press conference for that but i find a defamation case against him and you'll be surprised how many countries supported me and the end that guy got fired he is no more in that job of under secretary and has gone back to his senegal so i i would say why are you worried about what people say you have you have not done anything wrong you have not kept any muslims out there's no muslim who is coming on religious persecution asking for your citizenship if it was we would give him citizenship he wanted it canada or canada canadian citizenship and that's where he's gone and then there was uh taslima she wanted to go to switzerland as a citizen and so otherwise she stayed as long as she wanted in india any muslim is ready to come to india and say i have been religiously persecuted by these extremist jihadi type who are not representative of the muslim community but they are targeting me will be the first ones to i mean there will be no hesitation giving him citizenship but the propaganda goes on he says he's muslim it's again muslims and if such a mp does a somersault he's not it's not worth even taking notice of him but the broader question should you think that the cia date should be extended first let's implement what we have promised even today we have not yet given the citizenship papers to these people who came because this was a commitment made during the mahatma gandhi's time and we have been extending extending scanding and we are the first government which has done it but it must be executed it's not been executed because people in kashmir the leaders of kashmir protested against it so we were thinking that somehow we can bring them around in conciliatory talks that has not happened now first do this then you have another ca because this cia will require and you just can't buy a fatwa from the home ministry you can't extend it you have to go back to parliament and get an amendment pass but instead of that it's better to bring a new bill wonderful sir and now let us start taking a few questions from our viewers can you put the questions please the first one is from apoorva raj how can we counter the future attacks by the evil triad of taliban pakistan and china well if supposing such an attack takes place declare balochistan as an independent country there are recognize them yeah yeah recognize them declare it there we have baluchis in india set up a immigrant government and yet some other countries also to do so and uh so any any time such an attack takes place by the way we got a pretty good radar system we have got lots of good aircrafts and if such an attack takes place then you can have the armory of the united states available to you because if there are if china is involved the americans will definitely be very supportive and you know the americans are all on give and take basis there is no emotion in it so just because we misbehaved with them somewhere else they will not take it out on us in another situation where their interests are involved so i don't think they should worry about future attacks by them the question is we don't want terror we don't want in infiltration those are the things that will be disturbing us by these three next question please jack orman wants to know swami sir do you think that it was a huge mistake by us by not putting boots on the ground why have we been so shy of taking decisive stances on the geopolitical chess board i 100 agree with him it's a cowardly of us not to do it we would have been welcomed unlike american soldiers would have been welcomed by the local people and we would have uh and we have uh we are the only country which has conquered afghanistan in the past it was rama maharaja ranjit singh you know that other other than that the british couldn't do it the italians couldn't do it the russians couldn't do it the americans couldn't do it but we can and because there is a basic thing and we have educated so many of their people in our universities there's a lot of bonding we should have sent 20 000 troops when the americans asked for it yeah speaking of that i think about 17 to 18 of the population in afghanistan are in fact many of them carry that name in their last name you mentioned this sir and so there is same thing in balochistan also most of them have maharashtrian names so so then see we don't understand all these bonds these are all born forever i mean they don't have really absolutely and we are much better behaved with people uh local i mean americans you see there there's so much cultural differences there they're not able to and our music by the way charms the afghan is in no end and let's take the next question please anil sharma wants to know why does government keep terrorists alive in jail forever and then and then fall in postage release trap well i mean uh we have hanged uh some people because was hanged and before that uh somebody i remember in 1983 we hanged one terrorist and uh well if we go by the law you see and maybe the framing of the law you know which passes parliament uh may give so many opportunities because it's based still on the principle that you are presumed to be innocent and thus prove guilty and therefore the the courts uh do exercise it takes time the people the lawyers are there there's a lot of money that goes into their pockets and so the adjournment is a very profitable thing so they that that's the reason but i think uh the doing it by any quicker process once you got them in jail and in chains uh i don't think you have to necessarily thirst for an early hanging of them or early loss of life for them by the way the name of the person who is heading the current afghan government in exile inside the panchayat valley umrula saleh m-a-m-r-u-l-l-h so sometimes what happened the pronunciation could be salah but the spelling is there sort of is that is a very common name i've seen it yes then it's saleh and abhilash nanda wants to know pranam swamiji and ayaji if we support the united alliance aren't we looking at increase in insurgency as if uh they are going to wait for that to increase their intelligence they're all those terrorists are thirsting to come to india who are sitting in pok and so the moment the taliban settles down you will find tripling quadrupling of terrorist attacks in india i don't know how old you are but this is exactly what happened in 1989 that's how the 99 the kashmiri hindus got driven out of the valley this was exactly what happened so please please don't even think that it is not going to happen that she wants to know but taliban considers kaibar pakhtun as part of greater afghanistan don't you think it's an opportunity to use taliban to break pakistan into pieces well i mean if they break pakistan into pieces then they would take it over so taliban only gets bigger i mean the question is pakistan we don't want to we can break pakistan into pieces without taliban's help for instance as well as sindh they will separate anytime you give a promise to recognize them so therefore why why wait for uh taliban why should we rely on taliban how do we know they will do it how do you know they will not change their mind i mean why should we be dependent on someone else to do your work next question please vipin kumar wants to know sir if one was to make sense of american haphazard withdrawal what would be the justification of such a mess i don't think american withdrawal was haphazard it was cold-blooded thought that the taliban will cooperate fully there was a cold-blooded analysis that they will be able to lift them all up before by before the taliban turns up but the taliban turned up on the 15th of august and upset everything and took over the policing so that's where the error took place i think probably the only mistake the americans made is thinking that the taliban believes in contracts taliban has no civilizational norms that it practices if you are foolish enough to sign an agreement with them then you deserve the punishment you get somebody has an interesting question i think you already answered it partly is it true that india has lost the narrative on afghanistan due to eam jaishankar flying to doha under bapu no i mean it was not only that it was silly for him to wait around in the outer room for them to come and see allow him to come and meet people he was not there in the meeting he was kept out he was also earlier when he went to america the secretary of state made him wait five days he had an appointment with the secretary and on the very first day he got a message that the secretary has to go to europe so he can't meet you but if he's willing to wait five days he'll be returning back and then he'll meet him and he waited five days what what do you think will be the impression created in that this guy has no other work except to hang around next question from vedam anan kumar dr swami you had written an article about the taliban issue that resulted in your arbitrary removal from our word whatever you said today is whatever you said is today a reality does this begin the clash of civilizations well you know first of all what was done in harvard was a very clandestine thing the procedure for being invited to teach at harvard is that the department of economics recommends your name to the uh to the faculty of arts and sciences and then it is taken for granted what they recommend is final so for years for one year after another year after almost for 10 continuous years of department economics wrote to the dean that we want swami to teach because he teaches two courses for which we need two professors normally one is a course on china the other is on mathematical economics it's very rare to get somebody who can teach both and since i've been in the past also teaching at harvard but on that particular 11th year what happened is that the people in the religion school who are supposed to be experts on india they went to a meeting of what is called as a catalog committee where all that is decided is what kind of a front page there'll be for the catalog and what will be the sequencing of uh now nobody goes to that meeting because i mean this is a clerk's work so but these people came in strength with you know with the indian uh and uh that the um whatever his name was all these characters turned up plus these india experts diana ek and so on they turned up maybe they were inspired by sonia gandhi here i don't know and they just said that i have made us you know i wrote a book in which i have said that the muslims have the same dna as indians as hindus and therefore they should accept it if they want to be treated as people who really belong to our country now that's an opinion i gave i didn't say that they should be killed and on that basis without even asking me which is a fundamental democratic principle that if you are going to accuse somebody of something and take action against him then you will give him an opportunity to represent this point of view without asking me with the bear quorum because nobody goes to that meeting and i was gone given a notice nobody was given a notice that this is going to be on the agenda they may pass the resolution saying that my my courses will be deleted not i was not going to be i was not removed i could come back the next year which they tried to tell me and tried to appease me i said no i don't want to come again so that is the quality to which they def now you see they are holding some conference of some eight nine universities on why hindutva is is a nazi propaganda i mean these are what they are mad what is hindutva got to do with nazis so i don't like to worry about it i think they have done me a favor because every year i used to say i'm not coming and i used to be persuaded to come that meant four months uh spending in america yeah then you know a politician being away for four months you know and by then you know 2g had happened and all this and my demand demand for me to be in india was very strong so they did me a favor instead of my saying no they made it easy for me yes and and the name of the conference is dismantling global hindutva and they claim again see this is there the problem is they have a problem now they claim 45 universities were sponsoring but once the universities were contacted they realized that this was done without their permission stanford has pulled out you see system many ucs have pulled out many more are coming out so there is our word is not pulled out not yet not yet but again it's working through its uh ranks that tomorrow we will be airing an interview with nikon shrivady and rajiv malhotra on this very topic so please stay tuned in with p gurus and we will be able to tell you what is the latest on this a lot of stuff happening there also so dr swami then the next question from avila chandra does taliban looked at the indian the urban school of islam as their parent ideology well you know the the urban school is a highly intellectual school i mean you may not like what they're saying and doing but they are intellectual they are scholars there and so on so it's inevitable that they would have some influence but the fact of the matter is that uh they uh uh i mean the taliban is is a savage institution and for them to have masters a servant or guru shishya relationship with anybody is not imaginable at least i don't think that this is ever going to happen next question please preetam sarvaditiya during 1996 india had secretly given military medical assistance to ahmad saw masood and his forces can modi government follow the same step of providing assistance without acknowledging it publicly i think they could do much more than that they can give them weapons they can give them drones helicopters a lot of things they can give why only medicines i mean this is we must get out of these medicines and libraries and so on we have a world power and potentially and we must exercise that power to show that we are a functioning world power uh jai prakash said at any time if you feel like you want to stop please let me know because the questions are quite a few we will keep going as long as you are ready sir uh 9 30. another 15 minutes 15 minutes sounds good sir jay prakash ir wants to know are we pushed to a likely alliance of necessity between christian nations buddhist nations and india against jihadi congregations well there was a professor at harvard called i knew him very well who wrote a book called clash of civilizations samuel huntington huntington yeah in which he said that there will be and they said this in 1994 uh that there will be a world war it will be islam versus a unity of hindus and christians i don't know whether that's a you know realistic scenario but there's no doubt that if the islam is over taken over by these hardliners they will have to wage war and that too with the kafirs which includes us and the christians so um i think you know what i would say is that this question that has been posed should be turned into a contingency planning that such things can happen and how do we be prepared for it so that we are not surprised when this happens so from that point of view it's a very valuable question and i think we must prepare for a possibility of this happening although the probability i don't think is much subject chatterjee wants to know how could the pakistanis make such a fool of usa well i mean you see i think the americans are easy this is easily susceptible to flattery i don't know whether you will agree they like praise they like gratitude expression deep expression of gratitude and pakistan is a great ones at that and and the pakistanis remain smart enough to do at crucial moments something which wins their hearts like handing over i mean pointing out where osama bin laden is hiding even though the earlier time when that surrounded him the pakistanis said that we'll go and catch him and bring him out instead of that they gave him the back door and sent him away um i think the pakistanis i am myself dealt with a lot of pakistanis both at harvard when they were students of mine and when musharraf was there i made a visit and when the russians came to afghanistan the then dictator sir joel huck invited me to visit peshawar so i went to peshawar and saw the afghan refugees and so on i know that they when they want to please you they'll pour the praise and hospitality and so on but they mean none of it and so the americans you know everywhere they get abused and called yanks and so on then egypt they're kicked and so on so therefore when pakistan is lay down and lay you know tons and tons of butter on them they are bound to be influenced i i mean i don't think that it's you have to be really hard-boiled or a neighbor of pakistan to know the reality of pakistan next question please uh aditya tp dear doctor why are we so slow in implementing reforms in labor judiciary systems is it time to rethink what works and what does not work in the constitution yes that's always necessary how can then for instance you know in america one of the ways that they put lower the load on corpses by having discovery and interrogatories i don't know whether um our uh she here knows about it yes yeah i'm sorry i i was just answering a question and uh okay trying to see how many more questions are left please i'm sorry about that yeah no i'm saying that you i don't know whether you know about discovery of course you have just won a defamation case but that's like was it a civil case or a criminal case it was a civil case sir or civil case then i'm no surprise these because we had threatened them with the discovery and they would have been dead as a dodo after discovery and interrogatories so but in america you can't go to trial unless you have done discovery and interrogation yes yes yes in india there is no such requirement and our lawyers don't like it because it's a lot of work you have to frame questions you have to uh put it across and affidavit and so on so and then they will give you a big bunch of answers then you have to read it and so therefore there are methods by which for example on adjournments don't agree to adjournments unless both sides agree both sides want our adjournments and say that we will not 10 hearings only one hearing i'll allow an enjoyment and everything else then you have day-to-day hearings also there are many ways to do it if there's a will to do it at this point i want to just put a clarification out there uh the person's name i said mahindra singh sirsa he belongs to khalid party he personally may have not objected but i think his party opposed caa which is what i wanted to say but the main question there was whether the cia was going to be framed and you have answered that sir so personally to me the biggest site heartbreaking was the site of three sick pujaris the the text on their head the sacred grunt and and you know posing in front of kabul airport because 100 they are not going back whichever sikh is going to be back in the uh india they will not go back but you see the problem here is indians always say that see this is the thing that we keep to do seems to be doing and i'm afraid the way india is going that you know in a great act of benevolence prime minister modi might say let us form a 200 kilometer corridor for all the afghans trapped in afghanistan to just drive across to india we'll take care of them that is not the response at this time that's my personal opinion i don't know what you think well if somebody is frightened and he's an indian once they come back to india our doors are open we are not uh we are not uh in a position to accept uh others who have no uh no bonds of uh earlier bonds with india so i i don't think there is a highway in all this if he does that i i think moody will have a hell of a time i don't think he'll do it uh but i do think that if indians want to come back considering that most indians have given their savings and sent them back and we have a huge contribution to our foreign exchange by nris so therefore i think we owe them this much that if they want to come back they can come back thank you very much sir and with that uh our program comes to an end dr swami i think i told you 30 minutes i took much more than that i apologize but the topic was so interesting i just couldn't let go sir my apologies again but i think the gain is all of ours and the viewers thank you very much dr swami and we hope to come back and talk to dr swami on many such interesting topics please like and subscribe our channel and support us thank you very much namaskar yeah bye

Channel: PGurus

Views: 373,479

Keywords: Pgurus, Dr Subramanian Swamy, Dr Swamy on Afghanistan, Dr Swamy on Taliban, subramanian swamy latest, subramanian swamy afghanistan, afghanistan news, afghanistan taliban, afghanistan history, afghanistan latest news, afghanistan update, subramanian swamy

Id: 7AdNAkQyY8M

Length: 84min 48sec (5088 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 24 2021