LIVE: Tucker Carlson, Takes Part in World Government Summit at What’s Next for Storytelling? | IN18L

start thank you very much for asking me and thank you very much for having us here one of my favorite countries in the world um the I'll start in reverse order why now well I've been trying for three years to do this interview um the US government prevented me from doing it by spying on my text messages and leaking them to the New York Times and that spooked the Russian government into canceling the interview so I've been trying to do this but my country's Intel Services were working against me illegally and that enraged me because I'm an American citizen I'm 54 I pay my taxes I obey the law and there was no expectation in the America that I grew up in that my government and its Intel Services NSA and CIA which were always outwardly focused on our foreign enemies would be turned inward against American citizens and I'm shocked by that and I'm infuriated by that and so once I discovered that that was happening and I confirmed it was happening and they admitted that they did it then I was totally determined monomaniac dedicated to doing this interview not simply because I want to know uh what Vladimir Putin is like and what he thinks about a war that is resetting the world and really Gravely damaging my country's economy but also because they told me I couldn't on the basis of illegitimate means um and for no really clearly stated justification and I thought that can't stand I don't I want to live in a free country I was born in one and I'm going to do whatever small thing I can can do to maintain um you know the society that I I I I love you you are known to be um Pro Republican party rightwing of Republican party this is what they claim they said first you've been a Democrat then became a republican okay or you are known to be Pro Trump anti Biden what is truthful in this and you want to Putin because you are pro Trump and anti-biden um I mean My Views are not very interesting uh I would I'm not sure how it characterize them they're changing as quickly as the world itself is changing and I as a matter of principle I I think that you know your views should change when the evidence changes and assumptions that you had in the past are proven wrong that has happened to me virtually every month of my life if you pay close enough attention you can rate your own performance just as if you're betting on sports you know I lost that one and when you do when it turns out that the things you thought were true were lies you should admit it so what are My Views I'm not certain tell the truth is my main View and I plan to do that to the best of my ability so um Trump played no role in this whatsoever there's a obviously an election in my country coming uh to fruition in November I have no idea what's going to happen I think that the current Administration is very obviously incompetent and the the president is scile that's not an attack everyone knows it um it has now been confirmed I I I would say this week uh in in the report that you're all familiar with but um and that's very sad but it it had sort of nothing to do with the interview I wanted to interview Putin because he's the leader of a country that the US government is sort of at war with though not in in a declared way sir you know your president President Biden well you've been working in several media organizations from PBS CNBC m m Ms MBC Fox News CNN and you've been covering this field well and you know the American politicians and now you've been following Putin and you did a very lengthly interview with this gentleman and for sure to interview them you did your homework and you did your research comparing the culture the competence between Vladimir Putin and Biden how do you see the two men now running the world I mean if this were boxing the fight would be called by the medic um so and I say that as an American and I'm I don't have another passport I don't plan to ever leave my country my family's been there hundreds of years and I love it I am a patriotic American and I grieve when I see that the president is non-comp Menace and that in my country it is considered very rude to say that and you sort of wonder how did you get to a place where you have an incompetent president who's driven not simply the standard of living but life expectancy downward and no one feels free to say that that's not a political observation it's a statement of fact which is provable empirically and the most radicalizing thing I would just say for me in the eight days I spent in Moscow was not simply the leader of the country who of course is impressive it's the largest land mass in the world and it's wildly diverse linguistically culturally religiously as hard to run a country like that for 24 years whether you like it or not so an incapable person couldn't do that he is very capable and many of you know him and you know that what was radicalizing very shocking and very disturbing for me was the city of Moscow where I'd never been the biggest city in Europe 13 million people and it is so much nicer than any City in my country I had no idea my father spent a lot of time there in the 80s when he worked for the US government and barely had electricity and now it is so much cleaner and safer and prettier aesthetically it's architecture food its service than any country city in the United States that you have and this is non ideological how did that happen how did that happen and at a certain point I don't think the average person cares as much about abstractions as about the concrete reality of his life and if you can't use your Subway for example as many people are afraid to in New York City because it's too dangerous you have to sort of Wonder like isn't that the ultimate measure of leadership and that's true by the way it's radicalizing for an American to go to Moscow I didn't know that I've learned it this week to Singapore to Tokyo to Dubai and Abu Dhabi because these cities no matter how we're told their run and on what principles they run are wonderful places to live that don't have rampant inflation where you're not going to get raped sir excuse me what is that excuse me are you anti-American model no I am the most pro-american so I'm 54 I was born in 1969 I grew up in a country that had cities like Moscow and ab Abu Dhabi and duai and Singapore and Tokyo and we no longer have them and what I have discovered is that's a voluntary Choice as inflation is as you heard in that fascinating last panel inflation is the product of choices made mostly by the Central Bank not exclusively but by policy makers crime same you don't have to have crime actually if you don't put my children don't smoke marijuana at The Breakfast Table why because I won't allow them it's very simple it's a short conversation no and you can run your country the same way we're not going to put up with that so don't do it and people understand that filth graffiti Paris one of my favorite cities New York one of my favorite cities are filthy and part of the reason they're filthy is because people spray pain obscenities on buildings and no one cleans it up so that encourages more people to do the same and our policy makers for some reason don't notice this London another one of my favorite cities you see English girls begging for drugs on the sidewalk and I thought to myself if I'm Boris Johnson who briefly and very badly ran that country I would ask myself like wait a second my countrymen are begging for drugs on the street maybe I should do something about that but no he'll show up and give some speech about Ukraine and how we need to send you know more cluster bombs to the brave ukra what are you doing you mentioned Ukraine by talking to this gentleman President Putin for this lengthly interview my question is did you had coffee with him did you have any um off the Record discussion before the interview after did you feel during the interview or before or after that this man can make or is willing to do a historical compromise number one on the uh status of the world with the west and number two about Ukraine is he compromiser yes or no of course right I mean leaders of every country on the planet other than maybe the United States during the unipolar period are forced by the nature of their jobs to compromise compr is part of that's what diplomacy is and he's among those his position is clearly hardening Russia has been rebuffed by the West I mean Vladimir Putin this is not I'm not flacking for Putin I'm an American I'm not going to live in Russia I don't love Vladimir Putin I'm I'm stating the facts a he asked Bill Clinton to join NATO he tried to make a missile deal he mentioned this in the interview that's correct and he's mentioned it in other forums as well and NATO said no we don't want you now if the point of NATO not if the point of NATO originally of course the post-war goal of NATO was to keep the Russians the Soviets from coming into Western Europe it was a Bull workk against the Russians so if the Russians asked you join the alliance that would suggest you have solved the problem and you can move on to do something constructive with your life but we refused and so I mean just meditate on that go sit in the sauna for an hour and think about what that means before sitting in the Sona a question a question now final conclusion you think that Vladimir Putin is eager for a compromise a compromise like Yalta sybo uh the Ottoman Empire sever agreements any International agreement to share power and to share influence in the world with the West if there is somebody who is willing and Biden Administration wants tension wants War want to exert pressure on him so that they can um weaken his economy and weaken his alliance with with China is this is what you are reaching from your conclusions my my conclusions are in Co I mean I've been thinking about this for a couple of years I have a whole new set of data to all over I'm not a genius so it's going to take me while to figure out what I think but at this stage four days later I would say first of all Yalta and syes Pico are two of the you know worst agreements ever struck um so uh I hope whatever comes out of this is nothing like those but um first things first Putin wants to get out of this war he's not going to um become more open to negotiation the longer this goes on one of the things we've learned in the course of the last two years is that Russia's industrial capacity is a lot more profound than we thought it was when Russia's having an e Russia this country were assured was a gas station with nuclear weapons um has a pretty easy time making missiles rockets and artillery shells whereas NATO doesn't so we should think about what that means one two um the West doesn't spend any time or our policy makers in Washington spend no time thinking about like what are the achievable goals here I have heard personally US government officials say well we're just going to have to return Crimea to Ukraine well you don't need to be a Russia scar know that's not going to happen short of a nuclear war that's insane actually so even to say something like that reveals that you are a child you don't understand the area at all and you have no real sense of what's possible and so as long as our leaders and not simply in the US but NATO and I really mean Germany um don't like take the time to learn about what's possible like we're not going to get anywhere you think there is a a big gap between the depth of understanding the philosophy of history between Biden and between Putin you see Putin who have studied history and who is very deep in history and he looked looks like he gave you a lecture in in for 30 minutes concerning the history of Ukraine and its relationship with the mother uh Russia does Biden understand the law of action and reaction which moves a country like Russia I I can't overstate how incapacitated Joe Biden is it's not an attack that is a fact and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying so these are not decisions Joe Biden is making but there are capable people around Biden and I know them what they lack is any perspective at all so a conversation with a US policy maker about the history of the region would begin and end with a conversation about of course Chamberlain and Churchill and Hitler period so the American policy maker historical template is Tiny in fact there's only one and it's a two-year period in the late 1930s and everything is based on that understanding of history and human nature and that's insane and so actually actually American policy makers have convinced themselves that Vladimir Putin is going to take over Poland and it is not a defense of Putin I don't mean to defend Putin I'm not a fan of Putin's and I'm not a subject of Putin's I'm an American however there's no evidence that Putin has any interest in expanding his borders he is the largest country in the world and it's very hard to run they don't need natural resources there's nothing in Poland he wants there's nothing he will gain by taking Poland other than more trouble that is if you're saying that he's going to invade Poland you don't know what you're talking about here is a point a point in the interview when you asked him are you are you ready to to invade Poland are you in expansionist power expansion yes in in in Poland he said only if Poland launched a war of course on Russia okay Ukraine did not launch a war on Russia and he invaded Ukraine why you didn't follow up on this question I started with that question actually um but he treated me to 35 minutes of Katherine the Great okay and the Roose uh but no the core question is why did he move his forces into eastern Ukraine and I watched this from a distant Vantage in the United States and I watched the vice president of the United States KLA Harris go to the Munich security conference just days before that in February of 2022 and say in a public form at a press conference to zalinski the president of Ukraine we want you to join NATO which is another way of saying it's a synonym for we plan to put nuclear weapons on Russia you think they thre a bait for him are you joking of course they did everyone and it just tells you how constipated and restricted and censored the US media landscape is that I was the only one who said that well wait a second the purpose of diplomacy is to reach a peaceful mutually one hopes beneficial conclusion to a crisis so if you're showing up voluntarily at the Munich security conference and saying hey zalinsky why don't you allow us to put nuclear weapons on Russia's border you're cruising for a war because you know that's the red line because Putin has said that that and any close observe the area already knows now do you have an explanation a reasonable explanation why there is this anti-war and this very negative remarks about this interview from a lot of your colleagues and a lot of politicians in the world one of the ways that I I think I'm Different is I don't like the internet and um I haven't seen any of the reaction and I would imagine you know I'm not the most popular person among my colleagues in the United States I wouldn't have dinner with them anyway so it's no great loss but um you know they I I can't imagine what their motives would be I didn't go to Russia of course to promote Vladimir Putin and if I if that was my purpose I'd say so because I'm not embarrassed I went because I felt that most Americans in whose name all of this is being done don't really know what's happening and they know nothing about the guy they're supposedly at war with in unofficially and I just felt that my job if I have a job in this world is to bring information to people so they can decide and so I wanted to do the longest interview I could with Vladimir Putin that contained the most amount of Vladimir Putin talking not me grandstanding about what a great person I am when an American journalist interview someone like Vladimir Putin the whole point of the interview is to say I'm a good person and you're not and that interview was aimed at his colleagues in the newsrooms in the United States I'm a good person why are you such a bad person you're committing genocide okay that's not fruitful and that's certainly not my role I care what God thinks of me what my wife thinks of me and what my four children think of me and that's all I care about so I don't need to prove that I'm a good person I want to hear Vladimir Putin talk so people in my country can assess what's happening I'll use the Devil's Advocate Advocate away yes okay I'll tell you you should challenge in in in the rules of an interview and you are a master in in your in your business uh it's not for me to give you a lecture about that but you should challenge some ideas for instance uh you you didn't talk about freedom freedom of speech in in Russia you did not talk about navali about assassinations about about restrictions on opposition in the coming uh elections I didn't talk about the things that every other American Media Outlet talks about because those are covered and because I have spent my life talking to people who run countries in various countries and have concluded the following that every leader kills people including my leader every leader kills people some kill more than others leaders requires killing people sorry it's why I wouldn't want to be a leader um that press restriction is universal in the United States I know because I've lived it I you know asked my former you know I I've had a lot of jobs um and I've done this for 34 years and I know how it works and um there's more censorship in Russia than there is in the United States but there's a great deal in the United States and so you know at a certain point it's like people can decide whether they think you know what what countries they think are better what systems they think are better I just want to know what he thinks that was the whole point yes I was very surprised uh about an unappropriate remark I don't think it is contains any of the uh what you can call JS or Nies from uh Mrs Clinton when she mentioned phrase about you I don't want to repeat it oh you're not going to hurt my feelings don't worry well well gentlemen she she called this gentleman this honorable gentleman that he is playing the role of a you see it I I didn't see it you didn't see she's a child I don't listen to her how's Libya doing no no no no okay she said uh the the the the the useful idiot and and and if you see the interview that has nothing to do with this at all he was trying to get uh a a testimony about the world as Putin sees it and this is exactly what we need to know how this man thinks either you consider him an enemy or you consider him uh a friend or you consider him a dictator but you you should understand how the man thinks now the you put it better than I could that's you just describe my motive right there okay sir now now now the the the question is if this is that that is that as they say in the United States and this is the the the uh the power of media and the way the media is becoming very biased in a deep State like America where are we going in the model of democracy in the world media information in a free country is a counterbalance against in trench power not just government power but the economic power business it it was in my country con institutionally it is it is designed to be serve as a counterbalance to that so if sources of information media Outlets align with entrenched power then you have a powerless population and it's totalitarian and that is very quickly the direction the United States is headed and and I do think that technology abets this progression and machine learning especially and so it's a perilous moment if if it you know we're a democracy purportedly and a prerequisite for democracy is information so that the electric can make up its mind and decide who to choose and so if you don't have access to information you don't have democracy and we're in this sort of weird spiral where our leaders lecture us ever more about democracy and how sacred it is even as they choke it off choke it to death and so I think the people who provide information who bring the facts to the public have a critical role to play and right now it's difficult I'm not facing any great I don't mean to cast myself as a hero I'm certainly not a hero at all um but I do think it's tougher and tougher to do that and that means we have a greater obligation to do it sir do you have an explanation till this moment since the Gaza events took place till now nobody came out and said how on Earth the United States of America is vetoing the the stoppage of uh fire how a country would veto not to continue War H how how somebody is against stopping a war the United States is for this moment is the most powerful country in the history of the world so if you were to frame this in terms we're all familiar with which are the most basic terms the terms of the family the United States would be dad would be the father and the father's sacred obligation is to protect his family and to restore peace within his walls so if I come I have four children if I come home from work and two of my kids are fighting what's the first thing I do even before I assess why they're fighting before I gather the facts and know what's happening I st the fight I stop fighting yes so if I come home and I have two kids fighting and I say go go beat the crap out of him I am evil because I violated the most basic duty of fatherhood which to bring peace because I have the power I'm the only one who can bring peace and so if you see a nation with awesome power abetting War for its own sake you have a leadership that has no moral Authority that is illegitimate and I mean that too and I and I not I'm not even referring to any specific region or conflict I mean generally and I'm deeply offended by that deeply um and and it's something that I try to express and I'm often called a traitor for saying that it's the opposite I say that I say that because I believe in the United States I think it's a moral it has been a morally superior country and if we allow our leaders to use our power to spread Destruction for its own sake that is shameful there it's a binary okay it's a it's a black and white it's a zero11 you are either creating or you're destroying you're improving or you're degrading and that's how you know whether something is good or bad whether it's virtuous or evil if you just judge the fruits by its fruits you will know it h and I and I'm very distressed and concerned that we are entering an era where this awesome Force for good is instead being used for evil two quick questions because I ran out of time first question is now in the American elections we have probabilities either it's Biden and Trump or Biden and somebody else not Trump or no Biden and no Trump and circumstances or fate get us two different people representing Republican or Democrats what do you think where are we going to reach the coming 19th of November who will be running the show I haven't honestly I I haven't the faintest idea but I I think there's volatility ahead in our political sphere I mean clearly there is because I I like you when you said I I don't have an an idea you you have this courage of to say that you don't know you were telling me this morning that what one of the things which you like very much about here um our president Sheik Muhammad bin Z God bless him uh when you ask him a question if he doesn't have an answer he tell me actually I don't know the answer of this question I've never heard a leader of anything whether it's a country or a company or a soccer team ever in my life in a lifespan interviewing people I've never heard a single one of them say you know I don't I don't know the answer it's very complicated I haven't figured it out I've never heard anybody say that and to me that is this the pure sign of wisdom because wisdom grows from humility wisdom grows from the recognition that you are not God and in the United States we had a period where we were sort of you know having this debate about are some religions good and some religions bad I'll tell you my view on it and it's a hardened view it's a sincere view I divide the world not between Muslim Jew and Christian or Buddhist I divide the world between people who believe they're God and people who know they're not and the only people I trust are in the second category because that is the beginning of wisdom when you know you are not God that you cannot affect every change that you want you can't foresee the future that you're not omnipotent then you are much more likely to make good decisions wise Humane Decisions by contrast when you believe you have the power to shape the world and other people as we were hearing this morning through through you know biohacking um when you think you can create a better human being through technology you're very dangerous because you don't know understand your own limits you will get a lot of people killed uh when you when you have those false beliefs in my opinion by by this note Mr Carlson thank you very much for giving us this chance to come for the first time after your great interview to talk to the world through this Podium and this country and my humble Son thank you sir thank you for having me [Applause] for Argo on oil you can put embargo on gas but you can put an embargo on freedom of speech Mr Carson great honor for me to have you here today thank you I'll shoot because I have a lot of questions and very limited time basic question why you looked for this interview why would Putin and why now well I'll start thank you very much for asking me and thank you very much for having us here one of my favorite countries in the world um the I'll start in reverse order why now well I've been trying for three years to do this interview um the US government prevented me from doing it by spying on my text messages and leaking them to the New York Times and that spooked the Russian government into canceling the interview so I've been trying to do this but my country's Intel Services were working against me illegally and that enraged me because I'm an American citizen I'm 54 I pay my taxes I obey the law and there was no expectation in the America that I grew up in that my government and its Intel Services NSA and CIA which were always outwardly focused on our foreign enemies would be turned inward against American citizens and I'm shocked by that and I'm infuriated by that and so once I discovered that that was happening and I confirmed it was happening and they admitted that they did it then I was totally determined monom maniacally dedicated to doing this interview not simply because I want to know uh what Vladimir Putin is like and what he thinks about a war that is resetting the world and really Gravely damaging my country's economy but also because they told me I couldn't on the basis of illegitimate means um and for no really clearly stated justification and I thought that can't stand stand I don't I want to live in a free country I was born in one and I'm going to do whatever small thing I can do to maintain um you know the society that I I I I love you you are known to be um Pro Republican party rightwing of Republican party this is what they claim they said first you've been a Democrat true a republican okay or you are known to be Pro Trump anti-biden what is truthful in this and you went to Putin because you are pro Trump and anti-biden um I mean My Views are not very interesting uh I would I'm not sure how it characteriz them they're changing as quickly as the world itself is changing and I as a matter of principle I I think that you know your views should change when the evidence changes in assumptions that you had in the past are proven wrong that has happened to me virtually every month of my life if you pay close enough attention you can rate your own performance just as if you're betting on sports you know I lost that one and when you do when it turns out that things you thought were true were lies you should admit it so what are My Views I'm not certain tell the truth is my main View and I plan to do that to the best of my ability so um Trump played no role in this whatsoever there's a obviously an election in my country coming uh to fruition in November I have no idea what's going to happen I think that the current Administration is very obviously incompetent and the the president is scile that's not an attack everyone knows it um it is now been confirmed I I I would say this week uh in in the report that you're all familiar with but um and that's very sad but it it had sort of nothing to do with the interview I wanted to interview Putin because he's the leader of a country that the US government is sort of at war with though not in in a declared way sir you know your president President Biden well yes you've been working in several media organizations from PBS CNBC m m Ms MBC Fox News CNN and you've been covering this field well and you know the American politicians and now you've been following Putin and you did a very lengthly interview with this gentleman and for sure to interview them you did your homework and you did your search comparing the culture the competence between Vladimir Putin and Biden how do you see the two men now uh running the world I mean if this were boxing the fight would be called by the medic um so and I say that as an American and I'm I don't have another passport I don't plan to ever leave my country my family's been there hundreds of years and I love it I am a patriotic American and I grieve when I see that the president is non-comp Menace and that in my country it is considered very rude to say that and you sort of wonder how did you get to a place where you have an incompetent president who's driven not simply the standard of living but life expectancy downward and no one feels free to say that that's not a political observation it's a statement of fact which is provable empirically and the most radicalizing thing I would just say for me in the eight days I spent in Moscow was not simply the leader of the country who of course is impressive it's the largest land mass in the world world and it's wildly diverse linguistically culturally religiously it's hard to run a country like that for 24 years whether you like it or not so an incapable person couldn't do that he is very capable and many of you know him and you know that what was radicalizing very shocking and very disturbing for me was the city of Moscow where I'd never been the biggest city in Europe 13 million people and it is so much nicer than any City in my country I had no idea my father spent a lot of time there in the 80s when he worked for the US government and barely had electricity and now it is so much cleaner and safer and prettier aesthetically it's architecture it's food it's service than any country city in the United States that you have to and this is non ideological how did that happen how did that happen and at a certain point I don't think the average person cares as much about abstractions as about the concrete reality of his life and if you can't use your Subway for example as many people refering to in New York City because it's too dangerous you have to sort of Wonder like isn't that the ultimate measure of leadership and that's true by the way it's radicalizing for an American to go to Moscow I didn't know that I've learned it this week to Singapore to Tokyo to duai in Abu Dhabi because these cities no matter how we're told they're run and on what principles they're run are wonderful places to live that don't have rampant inflation where you're not going to get raped sir excuse me what is that excuse me are you anti-American model no I am the most pro-american so I'm 54 I was born in 1969 I grew up in a country that had cities like Moscow and ab Abu Dhabi and Dubai and Singapore and Tokyo and we no longer have them and what I have discovered is that's a voluntary Choice as inflation is as you heard in that fascinating last panel inflation is the product of choices made mostly by the Central Bank not exclusively but by policy makers crime same you don't have to have crime actually if you don't put my children don't smoke marijuana at The Breakfast Table why because I won't allow them it's very simple it's a short conversation no and you can run your country the same way we're not going to put up with that so don't do it and people understand that filth graffiti Paris one of my favorite cities New York one of my favorite cities are filthy and part of the reason they're filthy is because people spray paining obscenities on buildings and no one cleans it up so that encourages more people to do the same and our policy makers for some reason don't notice this London another one of my favorite cities you see English girls begging for drugs on the sidewalk and I thought to myself if I'm Boris Johnson who briefly and very badly ran that country I would ask myself like wait a second my countrymen are begging for drugs on the street maybe I should do something about that but no he'll show up and give some speech about Ukraine and how we need to send you know more cluster bombs to the bra ukrainians what are you doing you mentioned Ukraine by talking to this gentleman President Putin for this lengthly interview my question is did you had coffee with him did you have any um off the Record discussion before the interview after did you feel during the interview or before or after that this man can make or is willing to do a historical compromise number one on the uh status of the world with the usest and number two about Ukraine is he a compromiser yes or no of course right I mean leaders of every country on the planet other than maybe the United States during the unipolar period are forced by the nature of their jobs to compromise compromise is part of that's what diplomacy is and he's among those his position is clearly hardening Russia has been rebuffed by the West I mean Vladimir Putin this is not I'm not flacking for Putin I'm an American I'm not going to live in Russia I don't love Vladimir Putin I'm I'm stating the facts a he asked Bill Clinton to join NATO he tried to make a missile deal he mentioned this in the interview that's correct and he's mentioned it in other forums as well and NATO said no we don't want you now if the point of NATO not if the point of NATO originally of course the post-war goal of NATO was to keep the Russians the Soviets from coming into Western Europe it was a Bull workk against the Russians so if the Russians asked you join the alliance that would suggest you have solved the problem and you can move on to do something constructive with your life but we refused and so I mean just meditate on that go sit in the SAA for an hour and think about what that means before sitting in the SAA a question a question now final conclusion you think that Vladimir Putin is eager for a compromise a compromise like Yalta Sabo the Ottoman Empire sever agreements any International agreement to share power and to share influence in the world with the West if there is somebody who is willing and Biden admin ministration wants tension wants War want to exert pressure on him so that they can U weaken his economy and weaken his alliance with with China is this is what you are reaching from your conclusions my my conclusions are in Co I mean I've been thinking about this for a couple of years I have a whole new set of data to all over I'm not a genius so it's going to take the while to figure out what I think but at this stage four days later I would say first of all Yalta and syes Pico are two the you know worst agreements ever struck um so uh I hope whatever comes out of this is nothing like those but um first things first Putin wants to get out of this war he's not going to um become more open to negotiation the longer this goes on one of the things we've learned in the course of the last two years is that Russia's industrial capacity is a lot more profound than we thought it was when Russia's having in Russia this country we were assured was a gas station with nuclear weapons um has a pretty easy time making missiles rockets and artillery shells whereas NATO doesn't so we should think about what that means one two um the West doesn't spend any time or our policy makers in Washington spend no time thinking about like what are the achievable goals here I have heard personally US government officials say well we're just going to have to return Crimea to Ukraine well you don't need to be a Russia scholar so that's not going to happen short of a nuclear war that's insane actually so even to say something like that reveals that you are a child you don't understand the area at all and you have no real sense of what's possible and so as long as our leaders and not simply in the US but NATO and I really mean Germany um don't like take the time to learn about what's possible like we're not going to get anywhere you think there is a a big gap between the depth of understanding the philosophy of history between Biden and between Putin you you see Putin who have studied history and who is very deep in history and he looks like he gave you a lecture in in for 30 minutes concerning the history of Ukraine and its relationship with the mother uh Russia does Biden understand the law of action and reaction which moves a country like Russia I I can't overstate how incapacitated Joe Biden is that's not an attack that is a fact and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying so these are not decisions Joe Biden is making but there are capable people around Biden and I know them what they lack is any perspective at all so a conversation with a US policy maker about the history of the region would begin and end with a conversation about of course Chamberlain and Churchill and Hitler period so the American policy maker historical template is Tiny in fact there's only one and it's a two-year period in the late 1930s and everything is based on that understanding of history and human nature and that's insane and so actually American policy makers have convinced themselves that Vladimir Putin is going to take over Poland and it is not a defense of Putin I don't mean to defend Putin I'm not a fan of putins and I'm not a subject of putins I'm an American however there's no evidence that Putin has any interest in expanding his borders he is the largest country in the world and it's very hard to run they don't need natural resources there's nothing in Poland he wants there's nothing he will gain by taking Poland other than more trouble you're saying he's going to invade Poland you don't know what you're talking about here is a point a point in the interview when you asked him are you are you ready to to invade Poland are you expansionist power expansion yes in and in Poland he said only if Poland launched a war of course on Russia okay Ukraine did not launch a war on Russia and he invaded Ukraine why you didn't up on this question I started with that question actually um but he treated me to 35 minutes of Katherine the Great okay and the Roose uh but no the core question is why did he move his forces into eastern Ukraine and I watched this from a distant Vantage in the United States and I watched the vice president of the United States KLA Harris go to the Munich security conference just days before that in February of 2022 and say in a public form at a press conference to zalinsky the president of Ukraine we want you to join NATO which is another way of saying it's a synonym for we plan to put nuclear weapons on Russia think they th a bait for him joking of course they did and everyone and it just tells you how constipated and restricted and censored the US media landscape is that I was the only one who said that well wait a second the purpose of diplomacy is to reach a peaceful mutually one hopes beneficial conclusion to a crisis so if you're showing up voluntarily at the Munich security conference and saying hey zinsky why don't you allow us put nuclear weapons on Russia's border you're cruising for a war because you know that's the red line because Putin has said that and any close Observer the are already knows now do you have an explanation a reasonable explanation why there is this antiwar and this very negative remarks about this interview from a lot of your colleagues and a lot of politicians in the world one of the ways that I I think I'm Different is I don't like the internet and um I haven't seen any of the reaction and I would imagine you know I'm not the most popular person among my colleagues in the United States I wouldn't have done with them anyway so it's no great loss but um you know they I I can't imagine what their motives would be I didn't go to Russia of course to promote Vladimir Putin and if I if that was my purpose I'd say so because I'm not embarrassed I went because I felt that most Americans in whose name all of this is being done don't really know what's happening and they know nothing about the guy they're supposedly at war with unofficially and I just felt that my job if I have a job in this world is to bring information to people so they can decide and so I wanted to the longest interview I could with Vladimir Putin that contained the most amount of Vladimir Putin talking not me grandstanding about what a great person I am when an American journalist interviewed someone like Vladimir Putin the whole point of the interview was to say I'm a good person and you're not and that interview was aimed at his colleagues in the newsrooms in the United States I'm a good person why are you such a bad person you're committing genocide okay that's not fruitful and that's certainly not my role I care what God thinks of me what my wife thinks of me and what my four children think of me and that's all I care about so I don't need to prove that I'm a good person I want to hear Vladimir Putin talk so people in my country can assess what's happening I'll use the Devil's Advocate Advocate away yes okay I'll tell you you you should challenge in in in the rules of an interview and you're a master in in your in your business uh it's not for me to give you a lecture about that but you should challenge some ideas for instance uh you you didn't talk about freedom of speech in in Russia you did not talk about Naval about assassinations about about restrictions on opposition in the coming uh elections I didn't talk about the things that every other American Media Outlet talks about because those are covered and because I have spent my life talking to people who run countries in various countries and have concluded the following that every leader kills people including my leader every leader kills people some kill more than others leadership requires killing people sorry it's why I wouldn't want to be a leader um that press restriction is universal in the United States I know because I've lived it I you know asked my former you know I I've had a lot of jobs um and I've done this for 34 years and I know how it works and um there's more censorship in Russia than there is in the United States but there's a great deal in the United States and so you know at a certain point it's like people can decide whether they think you know what what countries they think are better what systems they think are better I just want to know what he thinks that was the whole point yes I was very surprised uh about an unappropriate remark I don't think it is contains any of the uh what you can call JS or Nies from uh Mrs Clinton when she mentioned a phrase about you I don't want to repeat oh you're not going to hurt my feelings don't worry well well gentlemen she she called this gentleman this honorable gentleman that he is playing the role of a you see it I I didn't see it you didn't she's a child I don't listen to her how's Libya doing no no no no okay she said uh the the the the the the useful idiot and and and if you see the interview that has nothing to do with this at all he was trying to get uh a a testimony about the world as Putin sees it and this is exactly what we need to know how this man thinks either you consider him an enemy or you consider him uh a friend or you consider him a dictator but you you should understand how the man thinks now the you put it better than I could that's you just describe my motive right there okay sir now now now now now the the the question is if this is that that is that as they say in the United States and this is the the the uh the power of media and the way the media is becoming very biased in a deep State like America where are we going in the model of democracy in the world media information in a free country is a counterbalance against entrenched power not just government power but the economic power business it was in my country constitutionally it is it is designed to be serve as a counterbalance to that so if sources of information media Outlets align with entrenched power then you have a powerless population and it's totalitarian and that is very quickly the direction the United States is headed and and I do think that technology abets this progression and machine learning especially and so it's a perilous moment if if you know we're a democracy purportedly and a prerequisite for democracy is information so that the electric can make up its mind and decide who to choose and so if you don't have access to information you don't have democracy and we're in this sort of weird spiral where our leaders lecture us ever more about democracy and how sacred it is even as they choke it off choke it to death and so I think the people who provide information who bring the facts to the public have a critical role to play and right now it's difficult I'm not facing any great I don't mean to cast myself as a hero I'm certainly not a hero at all um but I do think it's tougher and tougher to do that and that means we have a greater obligation to do it sir do you have an explanation till this moment since the Gaza events took place till now nobody came out and said how on Earth the United States of America is vetoing the the stoppage of uh fire how a country would vet to not to continue War h h h how somebody is against stopping a war the United States is for this moment is the most powerful country in the history of the world so if you were to frame this in terms we're all familiar with which are the most basic terms the terms of the family the United States would be dad it would be the father and the father's sacred obligation is to protect his family and to restore peace within his walls so if I come I have four children if I come home from work and two of my kids are fighting what's the first thing I do even before I assess why they're fighting before I gather the facts and know what's happening I stop the fight stop fighting yes so if I come home and I have two kids fighting and I say go go beat the crap out of them I am evil because I violated the most basic duty of fatherhood which is to bring peace because I have the power I'm the only one who can bring peace and so if you see a nation with awesome power abetting War for its own sake you have a leadership that has no moral Authority that is illegitimate and I mean that too and I and I not I'm not even referring to any specific region or conflict I mean generally and I'm deeply offended by that deeply um and and it's something that I try to express and I'm often called a traitor for saying that it's the opposite I say that I say that because I believe in the United States I think it's a moral it has been a morally superior country and if we allow our leaders to use our power to spread Destruction for its own sake that is shameful there it's a binary okay it's a it's a black and white it's a zero1 you are either creating or you're destroying you're improving or you're degrading and that's how you know whether something is good or bad whether it's virtuous or evil you just judge the fruits by its fruits you will know it uh and I and I'm very distracted stressed and concerned that we are entering an era where this awesome Force for good is instead being used for evil two quick questions because I ran out of time first question is now in the American elections we have probabilities either it's Biden and Trump or Biden and somebody else not Trump or no Biden and no Trump and circumstances or faith get as two different people representing a Republican or Democrats what do you think where are we going to reach coming 19th of November who will be running the show I haven't honestly I I hav't the Fest idea but I I think there's volatility ahead in our political sphere I mean clearly there is because I I like you when you said I I don't have an an idea you you you have this courage of to say that you don't know you were telling me this morning that what one of the things which you like very much about here um president Sheik Muhammad bin Z God bless him uh when you ask him a question if he doesn't have an answer it tell me actually I don't know the answer of this question I've never heard a leader of anything whether it's a country or a company or a soccer team ever in my life in a lifespan interviewing people I've never heard a single one of them say you know I don't I don't know the answer it's very complicated I haven't figured it out I've never heard anybody say that and to me that is this the pest sign of wisdom because wisdom grows from humility wisdom grows from the recognition that you are not God and in the United States we had a period where we were sort of you know having this debate about are some religions good and some religions bad I'll tell you my view on it and it's a hardened view it's a sincere view I divide the world not between Muslim Jew and Christian or Buddhist I divide the world between people who believe their they're God and people who know they're not and the only people I trust are in the second category because that is the beginning of wisdom when you know you are not God that you cannot affect every change that you want you can't foresee the future that you're not omnipotent then you are much more likely to make good decisions wise Humane Decisions by contrast when you believe you have the power to shape the world and other people as we were hearing this morning through through you know biohacking um when you think you can create a better human being through technology you're very dangerous because you don't understand your own limits and you will get a lot of people killed uh when you when you have those false beliefs in my opinion by by this note Mr Carlson thank you very much for giving us this chance to come for the first time after your great interview to talk to the

Channel: CNBC-TV18

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Id: h2xa7hHMUho

Length: 53min 59sec (3239 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 12 2024