LIVE: House hearing on anti-doping measures ahead of 2024 Olympics in Paris

e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we do have to wait for a few more folks to show up but we're going to try to get started so that everybody knows uh we do have we're in informal at this point but uh Mr Phelps has to leave at 8:30 Miss Schmidt has to leave at 8:45 so we're going to do the best we can and we apologize when we scheduled this we didn't know that we were going to have a swearing in on top of everything else so we do apologize for that and hopefully Miss cast will be here in just a minute for for I ask all our guest to please take their seats Miss Caster having arrived call this subcommittee on oversight investigations will now come to order um I now recognize myself for a five minute opening statement as us athletes prepare to compete in the Paris Olympics a cloud of uncertainty hangs over the reliability of international anti-doping en enforcement which is supposed to eliminate the use of certain performance-enhancing drugs this committee has been alarmed to learn from news reports that several swimmers representing the People's Republic of China tested positive for band performance enhancing substances and then went on to compete in the 2021 Tokyo Olympics just last week 11 of these swimmers were gain named to the People's Republic of China's 2024 Olympic team all of this comes after the world anti-doping agency aada ignored signs of systemic Russian doping for years seven years ago this oversight committee held a hearing on ways to strengthen the international o anti-doping system it is unfortunate that we have to be here again two witnesses from that 2017 hearing are back with us today Premier Olympian Mr Michael Phelps and the CEO of the United States anti-doping agency or usala Mr Travis tiger we are pleased to welcome another outstanding Olympic swimmer Miss Allison Schmidt to join us today so we can revisit doping in sports ahead of next month's Summer Olympics I want to start off by reminding everyone what Mr Phelps told us seven years ago because it Bears repeating he said quote if we allow our confidence and fair play to a ro we will undermine the power of sport and the goals and dreams of future Generations the time to act is now end quote I'm glad Mr Phelps highlighted the damage performance enhancing drugs has on our country's youth athletes and I'm disappointed that W has not seemed to heed that call children join sports team and clubs believing that the system is mostly fair and that cheaters will be punished the importance of sports for our country's children cannot be understated Sports Empower children by teaching them life lessons building their confidence showing them the meaning of hard work and offering some of them opportunities to represent our country and make a career I myself have had the opportunity to see my own children grow and learn from competitive swimming in fact last week last week was very exciting in my household because one year ago in high school regionals my son Davis competed against Olympian Thomas Hilman who who at age 17 is the youngest male swimmer to qualify for Team USA since Michael Phelps the joke at my house was that at one point in the race they were tied that would be the point where the starter says take your marks foundational to the Olympics is the trust that clean athletes both the aspiring and current Olympians have in the system to keep cheaters out doping leads to cynicism in sports and inevitably disappointment for aspiring athletes as I'm sure miss Schmidt and Mr Miss Schmidt and Mr Phelps can attest to we cannot overemphasize the dedication sacrifices and training required of our Olympians competing at the very the very highest and what I believe to be the most prestigious athletic level youth athletes dedicate themselves by putting in countless hour of training pushing both physical and mental limits in the hopes of one day being an Olympian athletes miss birthdays and holidays to train so that they can achieve success the right way on their on their own Merit Mr Mr Phelps has previously said he didn't take a single day off for over five years just so he could be at the best to be the best at what he does doing irrevocably undermines the purpose of that Sacrifice by allowing competitors who really want all the glory without putting in the work is it fair that we encourage our youth to invest so much of their time if on the greatest stage consequences are not expected for certain country's athletes that is why I'm disappointed that Mr Banker the president of w refused our invitation to testify before this subcommittee today to discuss his role in upholding the Integrity of anti-doping testing and enforcement in international Sports competitions water received nearly $4 million in US taxpayer dollars through Congress last fiscal year their refusal to appear today calls into question their commitment to accountability and perhaps if they're not going to do the job we shouldn't even fund them Mr bank and W have hidden today rather than explain how wada let over 20 swimmers representing the People's Republic of China compete in international comp competitions after they tested positive for a ban substance cheating athletes take away sports take away spots and take away medals from clean athletes the integrity and sanctity of sports is critical for the Olympians competing but also for the children who dream one day to be an Olympian or excited that they once were in the pool with an Olympian we will keep a seat open for Mr Banger just in case I doubt it but just in case he decides to join I want to thank the three of you who made it here today despite your very busy schedules ahead of the Paris Olympics and I yield back now recognize miss cter the ranking member of the subcommittee for her five-minute opening statement well Mr chairman thank you very much for convening this hearing to uh investigate illicit doping in sports and the troubling questions swirling around the world anti-doping agency especially with the Summer Olympics uh starting next month in Paris America an do not like cheaters and they do not they will not tolerate organizations that give cheaters a pass wada was established in 1999 as the international agency responsible for developing and coordinating anti-doping rules across all sports and countries as well as monitoring compliance with those rules importantly W has the power to investigate allegations of doping and enforce penalties when the world anti-doping code is violated however recent troubling reports suggest that wada did did not do its job in the case of 23 Chinese swimmers who tested positive for performance enhancing the performance-enhancing drug TMZ just months before the Tokyo games we need to know is it worse than that is the Chinese Communist party or the People's Republic of China paying wada to look the other way thanks to investigative reporting it appears that in January 2021 the Chinese an anti-doping agency known as chinata collected 60 samples from Chinese swimmers staying in the same hotel for a national championship swim meet nearly six weeks later in March of 2021 test results were reported to wada showing that 23 of the swimmers tested positive for TMZ janata suggested that TMZ positive tests were due to food cont in a contaminated kitchen uh that served the athletes NADA did not impose a rule violation against the swimmers or make the matter public wada also kept the violation secret and shockingly agreed to allow the swimmers to compete any amount of TMZ found in an athlete system is a violation of the rules and presumptive sanctions are required yet 13 of the 23 athletes that tested positive went on to compete in the games in Tokyo and some have been name to the Chinese team for the upcoming Olympics in Paris this makes no sense why did w accept chat's conclusions why did wada keep the violation secret why were Chinese athletes treated differently than athletes from other countries why were the Chinese swimmers not provisionally suspended what kind of scientific testing did w perform when assessing the results and why won't it share the details why were the required procedural steps not followed did did purported payments from the PRC to wada influence W's decisionmaking these are unanswered questions are why I am especially disappointed that wada refused the committee's invitation to testify today its lack of transparency is troubling especially this close to the Paris Olympics as the international enforcer of anti-doping rules W must provide these answers and be held account accountable as our Witnesses know well the Olympic games are one of the most visible and elite athletic competitions in the world and set the standards for sports at all levels maintaining the Integrity of the competition at a Level Playing Field and safety of athletes at the games is Paramount and I'm interested in accountability through the funds the US taxpayers provide to w i serve on another Congressional committee it's a special committee on the strategic competition with a Chinese Communist party where my colleagues there also called for more accountability I want to thank the Olympic athletes M Schmidt uh Mr Phelps for being here today and representing other athletes ac across the globe I applaud you for representing the United States of America on the world stage and becoming Champions that we're proud of hard work and dedication and commitment to Excellence inspires Millions W Mr tiger for your presence here your work to ensure that anti-doping rules are followed and that our American athletes are held to the highest standards helps set an example for the rest of the world to follow true Champions don't cheat they compete fairly and they follow the rules the international Olympic Committee affirms in its Mission the movement is intended to encourage and support the promotion of ethics and good governance in sport to protect clean athletes and the Integrity of sport by Leading the F against doping and by taking action against all forms of manipulation of competitions and related corruption W needs to take this seriously thank you and I Y back Jen lady YB now recognize the chairwoman of the full committee Miss Rogers for her five-minute opening statement thank you chair Griffith and thank you to our highly decorated panel of witnesses today whose Olympic careers have inspired an entire generation of Americans tonight's hearing comes at an important moment as we're just one month away from the start of the 2024 summ Summer Olympic Games in Paris we will be examining how the world anti-doping agency's policies and their failure to enforce those policies on the use of banned performance enhancing drugs and how that's undermining the Integrity of the Olympic Games it's completely unacceptable that the world anti-doping agency president V told bka whose agency received over 3 million in US taxpayer dollars this past year declined to join us tonight doping scandals have real effects on our athletes including American swimmers who must abide by the strictest anti-doping standards enforced by usada and include requirements like random testing these anti-doping standards should be applied evenly to ensure a Level Playing Field and that the best athlete wins recent recent reporting unveiled that just weeks before the 2021 Olympic Games in Tokyo 23 members of the Chinese swimming team tested positive for a ban substance tra deine or TMZ the Chinese authorities dismissed the positive test telling the world anti-doping agency that this was all a mistake because the band drug which is found only in pill form somehow ended up in the kitchen of a hotel that all 23 swimmers were staying at and they all somehow unknowingly ingested this ban substance the world anti-doping agencies review some included this exp concluded that this explanation was plausible and no further investigation was necessary it's important to note those swimmers won several medals including three Golds W has consistently failed to be transparent or accept any responsibility for his actions and it's not just the US Congress W is declining in a hearing invitation from the German Buon stag that was scheduled earlier this month how many more Olympic athletes have to lose lose out on winning medals and proudly singing their country's national anthem before the world anti-doping agency decides to enforce its rules uniformally everyone's watching the Olympics in Paris in their homes next month should know that the system is not rigged against athletes who compete the right way I look forward to hearing from all of you on this important topic I yield back as Rogers yields back now recognize the uh ranking member of the full committee Mr palone for his five-minute opening statement thank you Mr chairman and every four years the world comes together to watch the best athletes in the world compete for gold at the Olympics and over the last couple of weeks American athletes have been competing against each other for the opportunity to represent the us at the Olympics next month in Paris and I was thrilled to see that two New Jersey swimmers Matt Fallon and Jack Alexy earned spots on the Olympic Swim Team at the Olympic trials in Indianapolis last week and the Olympics only happen every four years but these dedicated athletes train Around the Clock day and day out for the opportunity to compete and they should be assured that the world competition is fair so I want to thank the witnesses who are here today and demonstrate their ongoing commitment to drug-free competitive Sports Michael Phelps and Allison Schmidt are two of our nation's top Olympic athletes who have both dedicated most of their lives to rigorous training and incredible discipline to Showcase their talents and represent the US on the world stage and both of you have made our country proud through your athletic achievements and you can continue to make us proud by standing up for clean Sports the CEO of the US anti-doping agency Travis tiger is also here representing an institution that works tirelessly to ensure clean competition and the Integrity of sports you uh usada's drug testing and educational programs are held up as examples of the strongest and most effective anti-doping programs in the world and thank you for your important work and the example that you set I have to note my extreme disappoint and frustration that the world anti-doping agency declined the committee's invitation to testify W is supposed to play a critical role in ensuring that sports are fair and that competitions are clean across the world they were established to enforce the rules that keep everyone safe and uphold the Integrity of global sporting events it's really outrageous that W does not have the courage or Integrity to show up and defend itself here tonight should be protecting clean Sport and not hiding from accountability now we need answers directly from W about the disturbing allegations against Chinese Olympic swimmers recently the world learned of the allegations of doping amongst Chinese swimmers that happened in early 2021 7 months before the Tokyo Olympics it was especially alarming to learn of wat's role in sweeping these positive tests under the rug and allowing the Chinese anti-doping agency to ignore the rules by not making the violations public and failing to issue proper sanctions on the effective athletes 13 of those swimmers that tested positive for ban substances comp competed in Tokyo and won several medals not only were there no repercussions for violations of the doping rules of the time but 11 those of those swimmers are on the national team for China now and will compete again in Paris next month so W's mission is to police doping in the International Sports Arena the positive test from the Chinese swimmers raised serious concerns about water's Effectiveness in this role to ensure the Integrity of international competition W must send an unambiguous message that it will enforce the rules established in the world anti-doping code and supply and I should say apply all sanctions equally for any violation so we need a full clear and truly independent examination of what happened in the case of these swimmers and equally important a thorough assessment of wat's actions in inactions I'm aware that W has commissioned an investigation which is ongoing is expected to conclude before the end of this month that W should commit to making the results of this investigation public and answering our questions the international Sports Community deserves to know what the investigation found and to assess whether the probe was truly independent all athletes deserve a cop on the beat that will enforce the rules without fear or favor and ensure the Integrity of competition is not being questioned so I look forward to learning what action is needed to ensure the strong and fair International enforcement of our anti-doping rules an assessment of the appropriateness of wat's action must occur to determine what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again so I thank all of you the three of you who did show up today to ensure a Level Playing Field for all athletes and to maintain the Integrity of international sports at the highest levels thank you again and thank you Mr chairman I yield back gentlemen yields back we want to thank our Witnesses for being here today and taking the time to testify before the subcommittee you will have an opportunity to give an opening statement followed by a round of questions from Members I should also mention that that concludes the members opening statements and the chair reminds members pursuant to committee rules all members written opening statements will made a part of the record please provide those to the clerk promptly Witnesses you are aware the subcommittee is holding an oversight hearing and when doing so we have the practice of taking testimony under oath do you have an objection to testifying under oath seeing that none have an objection to testifying under oath we will proceed the chair advises you are also entitled to be advised by counsel pursuant to house rules do any of you desire to be advised by counsel during your testimony today youall can tell I'm trying to do this a little fast seeing none please rise and raise your right hand if possible if you're capable do each of you promise or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God seeing the witnesses answered in the affirmative you are now sworn in and under oath subject to penalty set forth in Title 18 section 10001 of the United States code with that we will now recognize Mr phel y'all can be seated we will now recognize Mr Phelps for five minutes to give his opening statement Mr chairman members of the committee good evening my name is Michael Phelps and I come before you before you today not just as a five-time retired Olympic swimmer but also as an advocate for mental health awareness the conversation around mental health especially for athletes is incomplete without addressing the Integrity of sport and Fair competition representing the United States on the world stage has been one of the greatest honors of my life through my 15-year career I competed in over five Olympics and six World Championships winning a combined 65 gold medals for my team and my country my in the pool has taught me the values of hard work dedication and above all fairness it helped me overcome challenges like ADHD and taught me resilience and focus however the constant suspicion on doping eroded the mental state that took a lifetime to build while competing at the highest levels I witnessed firsthand the pervasive uncertainty and the suspicions surrounding doping which significantly affected my my confidence and that of my fellow athletes the hardest part was seeing athlet to achieve seemingly impossible Feats knowing the immense effort and sacrifices required to reach these Heights cleanly it was disheartening and demoralizing causing pain and a profound sense of Injustice I know what it takes to to achieve the seemingly impossible things the right way I trained for five straight years without taking a single day off I knew that that level of my competition an extra 52 days of practice would be necessary to make that difference such sacrifice brought me to the highest of highs also the lowest of lows but I did P I did I did it in pursuit of Standing On Top of the podium watching the stars in Stripes listening to my national anthem play the last time I spoke at the committee in 2017 it was the first time that I had spoken out about doping and for fair and for fairness in sport I testified to the necessity of an athlete being able to believe in themselves to compete at such a high level and know that belief in oneself is only e El to compete at such a high level and know that belief in oneself is only to compete at such a high level and know that belief in oneself is only doping and for fair and for fairness in sport I testified to the necessity of an athlete being able to believe in themselves to compete at such a high level and know that belief in oneself is only e e e e Chinese athletes treated differently than athletes from other countries why were the Chinese swimmers not provisionally suspended what kind of scientific testing did w perform when assessing the results and why won't it share the details why were the required procedural steps not followed did did reported payments from the PRC to W influence W's decision making these are unanswered questions are why I am especially disappointed that wada refused the committee's invitation to testify today its lack of transp transparency is troubling especially this close to the Paris Olympics as the international enforcer of anti-doping rules W must provide these answers and be held accountable as our Witnesses know well the Olympic games are one of the most visible and elite athletic competitions in the world and set the standards for sports at all levels maintaining the Integrity of the competition at a Level Playing Field and safety of athletes at the games is Paramount and I'm interested in accountability through the funds the US taxpayers provide to w i serve on another Congressional committee it's a special committee on the strategic competition with the Chinese Communist party where my colleagues there also call for more accountability I want to thank the Olympic athletes M Schmidt uh Mr Phelps for being here today and representing other athletes ac across the globe I applaud you for representing the United States of America on the World stage and becoming Champions that we're proud of your hard work and dedication and commitment to Excellence inspires Millions thanks to the US anti-doping agency as well Mr tiger won several medals sweet also rules all members please statement through my 15-year career I competed in over five Olympics and six World Championships winning a combined 65 gold medals for my team and my country my journey in the pool has taught me the values of hard work dedication and above all fairness it helped me overcome challenges like ADHD and taught me resilience and focus however the constant suspicion on doping eroded the mental state that took a lifetime to build while competing at the highest levels I witnessed firsthand the pervasive uncertainty and the suspicions surrounding doping which significantly affected my my confidence and that of my fellow athletes the hardest part was seeing athletes achieve seemingly impossible Feats knowing the immense effort and sacrifices required to reach these Heights cleanly it was disheartening and demoralizing causing pain and a profound sense of Injustice I know what it takes to to achieve the seemingly impossible things the right way I trained for five straight years without taking a single day off I knew that that level of my competition an extra 52 days of practice would be necessary to make that difference such sacrifice brought me to the highest of highs also the lowest of lows but I did P I did I did it in pursuit of Standing On Top of the podium watching the Stars and Stripes listening to my national anthem play the last time I spoke at the committee in 2017 it was the first time that I had spoken out about doping and for fair and for fairness in sport I testified to the necessity of an athlete being able to believe in themselves to compete at such a high level and know that belief in oneself is only every single world record I ever break same thing vials blood then urine it's not the same for everybody else well how how shortsighted is it to undermine the Integrity of an international competition like the Olympics um if scandals like this uh proliferate then what happens to to Fair competition in in the interest of the public and all of us it's it's a great question and and and honestly I I think if we continue to let this slide any farther the Olympic Games might not even be there you know I I think there could be a possibility where you know there are other avenues that people try instead of trying to trying to do it the right way and and as a kid growing up again you heard my dream was to wear the stars and stripes and stand on top of that Podium and listen to my national anthem play and I tell I will tell you what over a 20 year career I got to do it a lot and it was really awesome um but also like Allison said I outworked any single human on this planet that's a fact and that's why I got the results that I got and for me I don't want kids growing up thinking that it's only doping and cheating where you're able to do these unfathomable things because people told me my whole entire life I would never amount to anything thing I use that as motivation in my career I guess I won a couple gold medals so it was a good career and I had fun doing it but for the future again this has to change and it has to change now thank you each one of us has been a little boy or a little girl who has had a dream now Michael and I have had a dream in this Sport and in the Olympic space and to be robbed as a little kid that there is not a clean um playing field and a fair playing field that's robbing little girls and little boys of their dreams well put and now recognize Miss Rogers for her five minute question five minutes of questioning Mr Phelps the last time you testified before this committee seven years ago you testified quote for me as a father now I don't know what I or how I would even talk to my son about doping in sports I I would hope to never have that conversation and I hope we can get it clear and cleaned up by then Mr Phillips has the problem of doping in sports been cleaned up where you can tell your sons that athletic competitions are fair and clean of cheating no from your standpoint what is preventing competitions from being fair and free of illegal performing enhancing drugs I think lack of playing or lack of Level Playing Fields um lack of rule following across the board right you know I mean you heard the the the schedule that we have to give every hour of every single day we they have to know exactly where we are usada knows exactly where we are and again we are okay with that if everybody else is doing that then that's what I want right I want to be able to stand up some to to to the block with with somebody next to me and be like all right cool this is me verse you it's not me verse you and seven other drugs so yeah so would you just describe how vigorous a little bit the US anti-doping agency testing standards are and is how often you were testified or tested throughout your career I would say on an average I was tested four to six times a month sometimes more depending on if I was competing or not um when I was competing it was pretty much every single session um it was the random testing um which again I'm okay with um and yeah I mean it's it's you know sometimes it's at six o'clock in the morning and we're getting up out of bed on our day off in Colorado Springs knock me on the door we have to do a drug test fine no problem um but it's literally I mean for my whole career I'm probably one of the highest tested athletes that we have is that fair to say Travis yeah so you know so it's you know again if everybody else isn't doing that and I'm subjecting myself to it it's just not right you know and I know that I know there are other athletes as well my competitors from the US we're going through the same exact thing right Ryan locky going through the same exact thing we were number number one number two in the world right we're going through the same exact process but somebody else who's number three in the world or number four in the world number five in the world they might have two or three drug tests that's it and they might not be random right so yeah it's it's hard for me to to yeah to Fathom that this is that we have made changes moving forward but I think we need to now thank you thank you Mr tiger why does the world anti-doping agencies explanation for why they ignored positive test results from 23 swimmers on team China not hold up in your opinion well it's absolutely against the rules e even if you buy this contamination Theory and and keep in mind TMZ is a controlled prescription medication it's prohibited all the time the default sanction is four years it doesn't magically appear fairy dust in a kitchen of a hotel three months after this event happened during covid when cleaning protocols were at the height of what they were so but however even if you believe this contamination Theory they still didn't follow the rules and W has now admitted that they that China did not follow the rules because even if it's contamination that calls the positive test and and there are some of those cases we have some meat contaminants and these are drugs that cattle is treated with and if you eat that oxtail for example it may cause a very very low level of a positive test we understand that that happens however if that happens it still has to be announced there's transparency in the system there's still disqualification and there's still a violation and that did not happen even if you buy this this crazy contamination Theory so what should have they done they absolutely should have appealed the lack of a provisional suspension when the notice of the positive tests were first sent and if they were going to let the Chinese handle the case W has the power to go in and grab a case out of a national organization's hands and they handle it themselves in the first instance and and they probably should have done that when they saw that China wasn't given their athletes due process there was no B samples they didn't give notice to the athletes there was no provisional suspension which is mandatory but given that they didn't do that when they then got the full file that demonstrated China swept these under the rug and didn't follow the rules they should have immediately appealed those to the court of arbitration for sport like they do in hundreds um of cases are any of those athletes competing in Paris 11 of them have made the team now competing in Paris um Schmid what does ignoring 23 positive tests do to trust in anti-doping agencies responsible for holding up the Integrity especially for clean athletes that compete the right way there is no trust and what we ask for is that trust for accountability and transparency we don't have accountability and we don't have transparency as we have not seen the full files thank you thank you all for being here really appreciate it I yield back J yield back now recognize the ranking member of the full committee Mr P first five minutes and questions thank you Mr chairman I want to follow up what uh chair Rogers said and and what Mr tiger said about this what happened uh it seems to me that the water code you know that the rules uh you know outline in specific detail how anti-doping violations are supposed to be processed and reported the problem is they not they didn't they're not enforced or they weren't enforced and the lack of transparency so if you Mr terer just again explain quickly what would have happened in your opinion or what should have happened in your opinion following chat's receipt of the positive test which of course we didn't know about because it was a lack of transparency but what should have happened following the receipt of the positive test from these 23 different Chinese swimmers in January of 2021 yeah g given that this drug is such a potent performance-enhancing drug that's banned at all times not dur just during the competition but you can't take it during training that it can help you during training for recovery and cardiac efficiency which is critical to Performance um at an event later they should have immediately provisionally suspended the athletes take them off the playing field that's mandatory under the rules that was not done W has the appeal right when anti-doping organizations like China in this case fail to impose a mandatory provisional suspension W should have immediately appealed that like they did in the Russian figure skater case if you remember she was provisionally suspended by Russia surprise and they appealed that same drug same level of drug and then when they got the full case File if they weren't going to grab it out of China's hands themselves like I just described in the prior question they should have immediately appealed China's sweeping these under the rug and and W has now admitted that China did not follow the rules they had to find a violation they had to publicly announce it and they had to disqualify these swimmers and they did not do that and that's if you believe the contamination Theory which is a whole another but in other words those things should have happened even before uh they assessed the uh the ban substance or the responsibility right that's exactly even before now let me isure this I mentioned in my opening that um W now has supposedly had some independent Swiss company you know do some sort of independent analysis of whether of what they should have done or what they did wrong and I said that that should be made public suppos they're going to get it by the end of this month but they haven't agreed to make it public so if I guess my question is if they again this goes to the transparency if if they made that public and the and it said uh you didn't follow the rules which you clearly say they didn't then could they go back and um you know reopen the case I absolutely and thank you for that it's really really important th this we believe and we said it when they first announced this ktia investigation that it's it's a whitewash we we've seen these before my guess is they will make some of that public they may make the whole thing public but what what we are asking for to be made public is the actual evidence in the files so that independent people can determine and yes the statute of limitations in these cases has not run so they could reopen absolutely now let me ISS you this if they reopened the case and found out that these athletes should have been suspended let's go the Next Step could they then recommend to the international Olympic Committee that uh that the medals be taken away listen you uh uh uh how the rules unfortunately what happened happened where we are now is that athletes and others around the world deserve justice on those cases themselves statute of limitation has not run we need a prosecutor to go in and look at the facts get independent advice investigate check to see if all these athletes actually stayed in the hotel but you're but what I'm asking you you're not recommending this but it is possible for them to reopen the case absolutely determine that they should have been suspended and then recommend to the international Olympic Committee that they should be uh the medals should be taken away under under the rules once that legal process has been followed then it's automatic disqualification if there's a suspension put in place such as and ala Russia case where she's been suspended got a four-year sanction now our athletes are moving from silver to gold in the figures and the international Olympic Committee could then determine that and say they have they have to follow what the court of arbitration for sport would say but but the athletes deserve their due process let's make no mistake about that the Chinese athletes that was robbed of them at the time but the statute of limitations has not told and if there are violations that deserve something longer than just a disqualification and an announcement then that can still be put in place that's one way of achieving Justice maybe setting an example you know that we're going to take these medals away and you shouldn't violate the rules Congressman that's why we have been pushing so hard from the very beginning for an independent prosecutor to get access to the cases themselves not a report that W does but the actual evidence in the cases interview the whistleblowers which was not done and determine whether or not it is fair to bring cases against those 23 athletes and if a sanction the four-year default sanction should be put in place or if it is contamination listen if it is contamination and the evidence proves that we we you s up and say you know what that's contamination sorry you got silver medal and you should be happy with it but you weren't robbed that happens this will haunt our athletes and athletes from around the world for the rest of their lives thank you thank you Mr CH went over now recognize the gentleman from Kentucky chairman of the sub committee on Health Mr Guth thank you thank you all for being here and I'd like to address this to Mr of H and M Smidt my understanding is athletes who are doping on ban substances do everything they possibly can to avoid the regulators and not get detected I know and I appreciate both of you standing here and saying that everything you've done has been because of your hard work that that's admirable I appreciate it but I know you've been around some people who have probably uh or know of situations and could you share some of the ways athletes try to hide the fact that they're using bad substances or they try to trick testers and regulators and also so how do they do it and based on your experiences are cheaters often a step ahead of The Regulators you can go I mean I I don't really know how to to be honest right like I mean I I I would assume you know I've heard back in the day with with uh I guess there were just pills that were administrated you know I'm talking like this is Icarus like way back then like people are just giving pills and you're just going and drinking and that's it like you don't ask questions other than that like I have no idea I don't know where to get it I don't know how to I know nothing I mean I just I I did what I do best and that was uh work as hard as I could every single day and stare at a black line and sometimes talk to it every now and then but you realize it doesn't talk well understand that but sometimes understanding how people get around the system helps us figure out how to fix yeah I mean I would I would assume they're masking agents um right that this might be a question better for you than me but I assume there are masking agents that people can do this or that or I I I'm not you just don't know you're not for me it's good that you're not but I hope maybe heard secondhand you have have you heard anything secondhand how that would work I've never heard anything but I mean it we have finished thousands of yards of practices and have felt bricks in our arms uh We've woken up for 5:15 a.m. practices uh diving in the water at 515 with sore bodies uh with legs that we have to walk backwards down the stairs because they're they feel like jello um so like Michael said there is if I have ever heard of anything uh we would go right to usada so so people get away with doping or just the Regulators are not regulating I mean there's not a way around it they're just not checking them is that what you're that's listen I I would say and we should take some consolation right that whistleblowers have come forward and exposed deep state sponsored doping in Russia holy cow that's been exposed and that's that was not dealt with as effectively as it should have been guess that's what trying to expose these are these are intentional regulating agencies that are just allow it to happen here here is the here is the problem is that the global regulator that's supposed to be the global referee to ensure that every country is being held to the same standards we now have another example Russia was one we now have another example that whistleblowers in the media just like Russia exposed of them not doing the job so M it's not been able to Mass to sum up because and I'm going to go ahead and Y because I know we're against a time for you a couple of you guys and others but so to mask it to sum it up is that they're not been able to mask their doping are these regulating agencies China and Russia we know are allowing it most more importantly the world anti-doping agency has turned their Blind Eye to them allowing you got it got Russia and China have been too big to fail in their eyes and they get a different set of rules than the rest of the world does unfortunately I'll y back gentlemen yields back now recognize Miss DEET for her five minutes of questioning thank you so much Mr chairman I'm the co-chair of the bipartisan and Bic cameal Congressional Olympic and Par Olympic caucus and my constituents and I are very proud that usada the US Olympic and Par Olympic Committee and so many Olympic athletes called Colorado home I will apologize for the 6:00 a wakeups but you know that's out of my hands um as you heard from this from this panel we had a hearing in 2017 when I was the ranking member of this subcommittee about and Mr tigart Mr Phelps were here about the revelation of the S systematic doping among the Russian athletes that led to Russia's being banned from the Olympics for several years and at that hearing um there were some serious questions raised about the effectiveness of um the world anti-doping agency W and and it's kind of poignant that there they are or not and they haven't come come here to explain themselves but after that hearing Mr tiger you will remember this we felt like maybe they didn't have enough resources we felt like that was the problem right yep and so uh the US now contributes nearly $4 million in dues to water right yes ma'am and that was in in response to the concerns about their ability to finance themselves right that's right but um how do how does our contribution comp compared to other Count's dues paid to water so we are the single highest payer US taxpayer on the government side that's matched by the ioc the ioc overall is the largest payer about half of W's 53 million budget but you'll remember to your point about what w asked for when they did have the decency in respect to show up here and answer questions under oath that they asked for three things one they wanted authority to investigate an investigators correct they wanted a compliance process and they wanted a process to handle effectively whistleblowers they got all three and a 60% increase in their budget to handle that those weren't used in this case whatsoever right so that this case and the problems we have has nothing to do with the funding that we're given them isn't that right I I think absolutely not okay now um I also found out that um in 2018 and 2019 coincidentally China paid water nearly $2 million more than their required annual Duce payments remember that overpay payment unfortunately I do and that and as we now learn that was right before these doping investigations is that right and and even worse 500,000 of that close to 2 million extra payments was specifically given eart for investigations and now knowing that they didn't open an investigation into these cases I'm not suggesting I don't have evidence of a proquo you you don't have to suggest anything I think we'll just let that sit there the Optics and perception of fairness and being objective unbiased is horrendous and Incredibly troubling okay um another development since the two 2017 hearing was the uh R renov anti-doping act which was a bill I let coed in the house with some other people's actually signed into law that that law makes it a crime to engage in a doping scheme at any International Sports competition that is broadcast in the US sponsored by use a US company or in which US athletes participate Mr Phelps do you know about that law no okay then I'm not gonna but do you think a law do you think a law that would do what I just said would would be helpful for athletes who dop I do yeah I mean because they're replica excuse me there's there's something that happens right like they're going to get punished for it like right now people are just getting away with everything you know there are people who are still testing positive that are still having the opport to to compete internationally right what not from the US no not from the US no but from all over the world and how is that possible Right like just makes no sense I I'm I'm one that if somebody does test positive I would like to see a lifetime ban cut and dry right like and and obviously to Travis you know what Travis is saying you have a lot of contamination issues obviously things happen but if somebody is going out of their way to single-handedly cheat go lifetime ban yeah lifetime ban what do you think m schm I agree and Echo what they're saying I think there should be a zero tolerance policy internationally yes thank you thank you all for coming we may have to have you back again I can imagine but but we will continue to chip away at this I yield back thank you thank you all for everything today thank you so much recogniz Mr Duncan chairman of the energy uh sub for his five minutes of questioning thank you and I'll thank M deette for that information that was wow um I want to discuss what the world anti-doping agency cited as to why they didn't have to investigate the 23 Chinese swimmers who tested positive first off is any of this normal I mean if you worked at w and one day you get over 20 positive tests all from one country in this case China in a onewe span is that a normal day at the office or would this have raised an eyebrow or two Mr Phelps it does raise an eyebrow because I think for three years nobody said anything about it right so that's kind of bizarre I mean do I believe there there is doping in sports of course I mean you've heard me say I don't believe I've ever competed in a clean field so I think there is doping across the board but I don't I don't know it's not normal and and it absolutely should have raised the reddest of all Flags to the tallest of all 20 from one country in one weight absolutely particularly for this drug that less than nine months earlier they met with a whistleblower who defected from China who they found credible told them that they were giving low levels and undetectable levels of this very drug to their athletes to cheat wow so how that didn't result in an immediate investigation immediate grabbing of that case to be prosecuted effectively is is why we're here yeah and why we need answers is it here Mr Phelps is it still the same where if one one delegation has four drug tests they they skip the next Olympics is that right depending on the sport but okay okay okay because throughout when I was swimming I was always under the like if four of our athletes tested positive in one Olympic or one quad four swimmers test positive in one quad we're done we can't compete in the Olympics they had 23 they competed in that Olympics and they have the opportunity to still compete this Olympics in Paris wow and and don't think for a second if if I may that that is that is a terrible day if your W to receive notice of 23 positive tests they were going to have to likely gut the Chinese swim team going into the 2021 Olympic why didn't they as well as 2022 China was going to host winner this is the question this is what we're asking like Russia are they too big to fail and that's why you turned a blind eye and allow them to not follow the rules and sweep these positive tests on the rug that that's the very question we are here for and want and need answers to I agree on the Life Time ban um aside from the Russian doing Scandal have any of you ever heard of over 20 positive tests not being investigated I got a know from Mr Phelps Miss schmith no one of the reasons they cited for not investigating 23 swimmers who tested positive was because they were quote in the same place at the same time when the positive samples arose end quote can each of you tell me if that is a good excuse not to investigate over 20 cases listen in otherland Armstrong case the team stayed together so that they could dope together they rode a bus together so they could do blood transfusions together the fact that they all tested stayed at the same hotel and all tested positive is not a fact that is consistent with not doping it's a fact consistent with intentional doping team that travels together dopes together um would covid-19 restrictions have prevented the world anti doping agency from effectively and thoroughly investigating these positive I would just say 3500 athletes in February of 2022 so just a few months later came into Beijing and competed in the Winter Olympic Games without any problem they could have easily gone in two or three people to interview they could have done Zoom interviews so it's not an excuse athletes don't want an excuse to that Co prevented them from lifting a finger they didn't even open a factual investigation they've acknowledged that and and the fact that it might have been difficult to get into China during that time because everywhere was difficult to get into is is not a valid excuse that answers the questions for why athletes weren't held to the same rules yeah I'm a former athlete and I I want to Level Playing Field as you do um I've got a little bit of time left Miss Schmidt do you want to add anything um you have any comments you want to add I'm grateful for this opportunity and like all of us up here state that we just want fairness in sport like you stated we want fairness in sport and sport has given me so many opportunities and I hope that I can have children that are in sport that have opportunities and know that they're competing on a clean plane uh uh Fair playing field thank you Mr Bona your U lack of being here speaks volumes Mr chairman y back jman Ys back now recognize Miss chikowski for her five minutes question she up here we go I want to tell you what an honor it is um to be with these amazing athletes and experts um today and I want to make the point that it's not just about the athletes I want to talk about the fans about the people about the Americans we love the Olympics we love to cheer at the gold medals it's a really important time and so the issue of trust is so incredibly important I want to um just say a few things to um M Schmid you are such a role model for so many people I think women look up to you um they listen to you and they want to follow in your footsteps so what I want to ask is not just what you think should be done um to correct the wrongs that have been but what are you saying right now to inspire the athletes that are going forward now that are working both of you have been talking about the um incredible effort that goes into over years and years to get ready for the Olympics so how do you inspire the young women who are considering being there and hoping to be there right now thank you I appreciate those words I'm honored to hear those words and I hope that I can sit here and Empower others to use their voice so often our voices are lost especially as athletes especially as female athletes um we know our bodies and we know the work that we put in so to be able to stand up and use your voice and do the best that you can at any level is what I hope that I can Empower others to do as well thank you um Mr Phelps you um hinted about sort of mental state um is is really important so has that now been diminished is this going to affect our athletes um well I guess I'm I'm just assuming um and I'll ask Mr um Ty uh tigart um whether or not we're going to see the corrections that we need right now but how important aside from the work workouts and all the expertise is the mental state of of the athletes for sure um I mean I I can touch on sort of just mental health and kind of my own experience through it um you know I'm somebody who suffers from depression and anxiety and I know there are a lot of people that mental health has struck into their lives because of covid and everything we've gone through I think loneliness has struck in people's lives more than it ever has before and that leads to depression so and then you put all of that on top of you trying to prepare and all these people around you are doing all of these things to get an edge it's going to weigh extra on you right so for me one of my things every every single day that I try to I'd like to lower and I'd like to have some kind of involvement in lowering is the suicide rate I can tell you this we've lost way too many of our Olympic brothers and sisters due to Suicide so this is something that that I I want to be a part of and I want to make a difference in but when we keep having things like this there are going to still have things that we need to address and and the mental state is very sensitive so I think this is definitely playing a toll in a lot of people's mental state but I think some people look at it as it's something that's out of our control that was something that I looked at a lot throughout my career was what can I control every single day if I can control myself and be the best version of myself that should be good enough and I think people are doing that now and people are cheating and that needs to change so I think that's why we're here today trying to fight for that change for the Next Generation Well there certainly by power on support here but Mr Tigard is this going to happen in time during these uh Olympics right now the window is closing I think back when we first when this first was exposed and we called for the independent prosecutor to get Justice in the 23 cases there was time but this close to the games I'm afraid there's not and unfortunately the world anti-doping agency has dug its heels in has said they would do this all over again they would not change so the likely that the self- selected review that they have going is going to result in anything of material outcome that will be beneficial for getting to the truth I'm I'm I'm sorry to say but I'm highly highly skeptical that it's just going to be the whiteash that we predicted and so and so no but this cannot die just because the Olympic Games come because it's a pattern of behavior that we have seen going back to at least Russia in 2014 2015 when it was first exposed by whistleblowers in the media not by wada to get this fixed particularly given these events are coming to the US like never before over the next 10 years well I have a uh Grand uh nephew who has ASP aspirations to be a swimmer and I want him to feel trust thank you I yield back G lady yields back now recognize Mr Palmer for his five minutes thank you Mr chairman I want to go back to uh a point raised by uh representative to get about the fact that China gave an additional $2 million to W but they did that right before uh clearing the athletes but they all there was also something else that took place right after they gave the money and that was uh International Olympic Committee uh member Yang Yang Chinese uh Committee Member was elected vice president she was just in 22 reelected to her second three-year term and it raises serious question to my mind about the fact that I think water has been compromised and particularly in clearing the 23 swimmers they relied on the Chinese anti-doping I think their assertion was that they had collectively been uh exposed to a band heart medication Mr Phelps uh do you consider W an effective regulator for Olympic athletes I don't have many positive things to say about them all right and and we're going to stop the clock for just a second so we're not eating up your time Mr Phelps has giv me the signal that he has stayed over graciously but he has now got to leave uh did you want to introduce um your guests who are with you this evening before you you have to leave well first of off I I'd just like to say um thank you for having us back uh and thank you for addressing this issue um we we hope we don't come back in seven years but we know that you guys will fight with us if we if we do um so I just I just want to say thank you again for for having you guys in our court um to doing what's right um and second this is uh this is my better half my wife Nicole and uh number four This is Nico my little child behind us so um thank you all so much and Mr Phelps I was going to tell you my neighbor was Rowdy Gaines and he was pretty good swimmer too sir yes sir I just spent time with him uh covering some of the Olympic trials and we'll be over in Paris covering it together as well the only negative I have about rowdy was he was an Auburn swimmer yes yep yes sir played football at Alabama but he's a great guy yes yes sir yall did a nice job thank you so much I appreciate everything thank you and I was talking about the other time not today particularly when you were on doing the trials reclaiming my time Mr chairman gentleman time is is restarting go ahead I'd like to uh redirect to um Mr tiger and M Smidt that that same question because uh considering the the excess payment that China made in the election of yangyang and I'm not making any U accusations against her but it just seems incredibly um more than coincidental that that payment was made she was elected vice president and they allowed basically the Chinese anti-doping agency to to clear the 23 athletes how do you consider wada a a legitimate regulator the issue in and in my written testimony and and my oral testimony it's the fox car in the hen house and when you have sport um leaders who um has an have an interest in the decision that they're making that can't be an independent regulator when you have people from the ioc like the current vice president from countries China and a big case like this comes through and it's not handled according to the rules of course the perception if not the de facto conflict is actual conflict is just rif and it erodes the confidence and the trust in the system by the athletes that you've heard from today and millions of athletes around the world M SM um um the first that comes to my mind is mental health um especially in this um China situation um it comes from both sides I'm a huge advocate in mental health and it comes from the China swimmer side of the pressures of hiding um cheating and the pressures of that and then it comes from the clean athlete side of being robbed from those victories and never having to be able to celebrate those victories at the time that we competed let me um be a little more direct about this um China is exerting enormous influence in a number of agencies whether it's w World Health Organization other agencies and I'm concerned that it's not the athletes decision to take these drugs and these drugs not may give them an advantage but it's also going to have some serious health consequences down the road because some of these performance enhancing drugs impact the heart it it increases the capacity of heart and down the road they're going to have some real issues have you and you mentioned suicide Miss Schmidt uh some of that may be because of of of the effects of having taken these peeds it's yeah go ahead it's holding it's holding that standard it's coming from for us as us athletes it's coming from usada and to knowing that uh we're responsible for what we're putting in our body and like I said it's empowering ourselves to know what we're putting in our body empowering ourselves to use our voice my question since my time is lied is are their countries and in this case China uh forcing their athletes to take these drugs because what I would say is we absolutely and we can't be naive that some of these countries we saw it with the Russia State sponsor doping affair they see sport as an extension of their Foreign Affairs exctly and it's and it is a war to them and they want to win and they will use their athletes as their soldiers on the playing fields of the Olympic Games it's we can't be naive to that and it's exactly why we have to have a strong Global referee to ensure that those countries don't gain an advantage that they don't deserve under the rules now it's not about competition it's about Supremacy and they're willing to risk the long-term well-being of their athletes uh in an attempt to defeat all other nations and and competitive Sports so I just think we're at a situation now Mr chairman where W is there's a serious question as to the legitimacy of of the organization and I I think it's going to impact the long-term future of Olympic sports y back gentlemen y's back now recognize Mr tonco of New York for his five minutes in questioning thank you Mr chair and uh thank you for the opportunity and thank you to our Witnesses for being here today uh I want to Echo my colleagues and uh register my disappointment great disappointment that the world anti-doping agency refused to attend tonight's hearing uh I would like to discuss how w handled the case of Russian figure skater camela valva there are several similarities with that case and the case of the 23 Chinese swimmers following a positive test for TMZ in December of 21 Ms Vala was provisionally suspended before being cleared on appeal by the Russian anti-doping authorities W appealed that decision and in January of 2022 Beva was found to have committed an anti-doping violation her penalty was a 4-year suspension backd to December of 21 Russia's gold medal was stripped and awarded to the US um Mr tiger good to see you um I'm interested in understanding why W appealed in the Russian case but not in the case uh involving the 23 Chinese athletes um can you explain the key differences and similarities in the handling of these cases and indeed their significance and if we could if we could cut there Miss Schmidt has indicated that it's time for her to go are you are you able to stay longer or you ready to go yes yes I have to go make my flight okay yes we appreciate it we're going to come right back to you appreciate you being here uh as well did you have any guests that you wanted to introduce this evening that were with you I got people watching so hard got people watching there you go and and I have to tell you uh I loved in your written statement uh about uh swimming not being a or being a no cut sport uh that's why I ended up being a swimmer and love it very much but uh really appreciate you being here in your testimony thank you yes sing is the one sport that is a life skill as well it is and so even an old man like me can keep getting in the water and do a little bit all right appreciate you being here this evening thank you very much thank you very much thank you Mr tiger did you need uh Mr tonko before I turn the clock back on did you need him to repeat his question I I don't I think I got it so the the the similarities or the contrasts in R's handling of aleva very similar if not identical facts lowlevel of a potent drug that's comp prohibited at all times the fault sanction is four years they appealed the lack of a provisional suspension in that case they did not do that in these Chinese cases we don't know why in that case when she was exonerated although Russia even announced it they didn't find a violation or give her a suspension in those cases Russia even announced it w then appealed that case to the court of arbitration for sport they prosecuted that case and they got the default sanction that otherwise should have been put in place by Russia which was four years that was an example while it took too long that was an example where the W did its job as the global Watchdog and enforced the rules against Russia as those rules should have been enforced identical substance similar low level this time 23 athletes they didn't appeal the provisional suspension when China swept these under the rug which is against the rules even if he believed it was contamination they didn't appeal that they let W they let R excuse me China do that and get away with it it how they justify treating these cases different than how they treated valy Eva case is again incredibly troubling and it's why we've asked for the full China dossier if there are distinctions in there that make sense and that are com comport with the rules then we'll be the first to say that but right now they are so far away from that is why we're here asking for assistance and help thank you I appreciate that and let's take a look at another scenario Mr tiger you correctly me mentioned in your written testimony that this is not the first time that this committee has addressed these issues in 2017 we held a hearing to review wat's role in response to the systematic doping that was uncovered in Russia I believe that covered the area of 2014 to 2015 perhaps um what similarities or differences are there between that case and how W handled the case of the 23 Chinese swimmers I I I would say well first of all it's it's both in the Russia case and now in this sweeping under the rug of 23 Chinese positive tests it's been courageous whistleblowers in the media that have gotten this out in the public so that we can see what actually happened in the Russia case they turned a blind eye and then when it was exposed they attempt to limit it they tried to put it in the rearview mirror as quickly as they could they did an quote unquote investigation once that exposed a little bit of the tip of the iceberg athlete groups called for a broader investigation they refused that it was then media and whistleblowers who then blew it open to the extent we now know what was going on W's hand was forced by whistleblowers to do the job that their task and we pay them to do here again in China we never would have known about these 23 cases being covered up in violation of the rules that W has now admitted China didn't follow the rules W has admitted that but they didn't do anything about it how can that be and how can it be that again it's courageous whistleblowers and the media that bring Shine the Light on the darkness and bring this out so now I think we all and our athletes as as you've clearly heard deserve to know what the truth actually is and Justice needs to be served in addition to the reform that we've talked about well look it's disappointing and this in action runs counter to the principles of transparency and fairness that are foundational for international competition so I thank you for your respon answers to those questions and thank you for your help in other areas of anti-doping legislation that we did in another industry the horse racing industry I appreciate the help so uh thank you Mr chair with that I yield back gent yields back and now recognize Miss lco for her five minutes of questioning thank you Mr chair Mr tiger thanks for sticking it out with us to almost 9 have a plan to catch actually okay well I'll be I'm kidding I maybe I wish I had a plan I'm not sure well um if if Mr phelp would still have been here I want to put on the record that I want to thank him for his um contribution to the Arizona community he helps ASU swim team uh his foundation also helps the Phoenix Children's Hospital uh children um swim education so um I want to put that on the record that I'm thanking him for that Mr tiger um my question to you is if 23 Americans swimmers tested positive for a ban substance do you have any doubt that the world anti-doping agency would have investigated us swimmers I think it's pretty fair to say that they if if we had swept them under the rug I think it's fair to say they would have done something different but make no mistake we would not have done that we would have put in provisional suspensions as the rules mandatory rules required those athletes would have been removed from the playing field we would have investigated it and if it was legit contamination as the rules allow for we would have announced it disqualified the athletes so those other athletes would have moved up let's not forget about those Chinese athletes who were third and fourth to the ones that got first and second that tested and had positive tests those athletes should have rightfully moved up in their event and W didn't protect their rights so I think it would have been hand handled entirely differently and and in accordance with what the rules require do you think we should withhold us funding from wada until they turn over the um their case File and the Chinese swimmers who used illegal drugs it's a tough but really important question I think where we are now after Russia after what we're seeing and their response to it we we have to have the leverage we need I think other countries would join and I think the threat of that um if not actually suspending it for a period of time will go a long way into influence the truth being out and that starts with the full China dossier as well as uh you know not allowing them to make secret back room deals anymore and then doing a a compliance audit I think they're all very reasonable and I think they're all very doable and and it should be if we're going to invest in an organization that is supposed to do the job as the global regulator we should ensure that our money is going for good purpose and right now it's just simply not and that pattern of behavior is just too much to continue to do I think well Mr chairman I agree with Mr tiger I think that we should withhold funding from from W until they turn over the Chinese files and until they um agree to an audit and I hope that we can have Republican and Democrats support in and talk to our appropriators about it and with that I yield back and for the folks watching back home we do policy appropriators do money so we'll have to work with our appropriators on that and now recognize Miss kamik for her five minutes of questioning thank you Mr chairman thank you for hanging in there with us Mr tiger um and and I will submit my questions for the record for our two athletes that were here with us um because I do think that there is some really important conversation to be had about the mental health that these cases and these situations are um putting on our athletes and I do agree with your assessment that many nations treat this as a geopolitical tool they use their athletes effectively as foot soldiers to further their mission um so I I agree that this is really important I want to kind of dig into some of the nitty-gritty um while while you were speaking we were talking a lot we kept hearing about the zero tolerance policy I just pulled up the um ioc's website and they say right there Point Blank we have a zero tolerance policy what does that mean especially in light of these these 23 um Chinese athletes that have popped positive on their drug test I think it's good PR honestly I I think and that that's what's so crushing about the Russia issue and this now China issue we have to stop the charade if we're gonna fight to win just like these two athletes give everything to be Champions those of us who were here to protect fairness and Sport and the Integrity of sport particularly the Olympic movement it's different arguably than Pro Sport right um we we have to win this battle not just attempt to give the appearance that we're for zero tolerance for example or a lot of testing for example we actually have to go out and try to win this for athletes so what is the relationship then between wada and the international testing agency they put out a very flowery press release talking about how they're ready for Paris what exactly is that relationship how do the two collaborate yeah so so wada well has an observer board seat on the international testing agency but they also oversee them okay and the sports that the international testing agency runs the ioc created and funds and has governing positions on the international testing agency that that said they are definitely an improvement from what was there before and they will be involved hopefully in Partnership they oversee the groups that test right the international testing agency along with usada chinata and China usada and Russia W oversees us W has to make sure we comply with the rules and the people who are testing they're called the doping Control Officers is that correct so what are what is the nationality of these dcos that come and test these athletes on a regular basis they they can be from all over is it more Nation are the are American dcos Test American athletes or is it kind of a hodg Podge I I'm I'm trying to get a better sense of what it looks like yeah so we so we have employees that are dope and Control Officers who you know as you've heard sometimes go into athletes house at six o'clock in the morning and collect samples um the international testing agency will use sometimes they'll use us to do their testing when they test here in the United States when you know Michael Phelps talked about he was tested and then two hours later he was tested again that was the world Aquatics I suspect that came and tested him afterward and that was unbeknownst to us because they sent a third party in to do that kind of testing and this is a really important point because while wada has put out a lot of testing numbers by China those as we understand it and we've investigated this are all through the Chinese National anti-doping agency they don't have third parties that come in and do the testing they're solely relying as we understand it on the Chinese anti-doping agency and they're only using the Chinese laboratory we're hearing the United States one we have two Labs two we allow foreign testers to come in and test in the US if it's not a test that that we're performing well and shouldn't that be a redundancy that the ioc adopts as just good standard practice it's a good check it's a good check and balance so I mean the vetting is there any vetting of or standards that are established by W for the doc's that there there are there is a um International stand standard for testing and investigations that all dope and Control Officers have to go through and it's a full background check here in the US all of ours are safe sport certified which is not the case around the world unfortunately something that we're obviously very proud of um given you know the the crisis in Saga there and the victims that were deeply affected ours are employees so we over background checks um all of the things that you would do to ensure that the folks that are going into to test are actually you know trustworthy and can do the job at the level that they need to do do the job is there a follow-up standard though so it's kind of like you you pass the background check and then you know you're Off to the Races no pun intended but is there continual followup of you know are these people compromised because I mean this is you know at the highest levels is there any followup with these dcos along the way yeah for sure for at least here in the United States I couldn't speak to what happens necessarily around the world but there's evaluation you know constant athlete feedback correction if there's you you know um Conformity minor conformities that need to be dealt with but but constant oversight to make sure we've got the best people in the trenches doing that kind of work because that's the first leg of the testing process if you have bad collections if you give advanced notice then it's only as good as you know ultimately what you're going to collect which athletes can find ways to defeat the system if they're given that advanced notice I'm I'm getting the signal that uh my time has expired I have some remaining questions that I will submit for the record thank you for for your time and for appearing before the committee today we appreciate it I yield Gan lady Yi's back now waving on to the committee we recognize Miss Baragon who's been here since the beginning uh for her five minutes of questioning well thank you Mr chairman and thank you to the committee for allowing me to wave on today um as a kid I was a swimmer myself my mother almost drowned when she was a kid so she made sure that all of her kids would have the opportunity to learn how to swim and uh once a year I would perform in a big competition and so as a kid you watch the Olympics and you watch swimming and it's so inspirational to see our athletes do this and perform and we don't really understand or know the sacrifices that are made and to hear today about those sacrifices um and their dreams of standing on the podium and wearing the stripes which is so patriotic us as members of Congress who represent the United States need to do all we can to make sure we have their back and that they know we have their back and that they do that and they know that so that they continue to compete and push uh to make sure that America is at the top of that Podium um Mr tigar you you have told us a lot uh that has been very helpful um you mentioned um and we talked a little bit about how China has paid an additional $1.8 million to the world anti-doping agency uh how common is it for a nation to pay more than its dues is that normal or not so much you know I don't I don't think it's all that normal um I know in the investigations that I mentioned earlier they gave out of that 1.8 roughly extra money above their dues 500,000 was earmark for investigations my understanding is that's the only money that was extra that went to earmark specifically for the investigations division um but there have been other opportunities where governments have given extra money to the world anti-doping Agency for a science project or to develop um a new collection um you know model or something of along those lines the the other really rare thing that I'll mention is that W also had a private sponsorship they had two private sponsorships one this one that I'm referring to was with the Chinese Sporting Good manufacturer Anta that also has a sponsorship with the Chinese National Olympic Committee as well as the Chinese National swim team and swim Federation so you can obviously the perception of the conflict whether it's direct extra government money or it's a private sponsorship which until now and questions have been asked no one's known what the value of that sponsorship was and what type of money if it was money they now say it was value and kind and you know shirts or clothing was given for some of their staff um but we haven't seen the detail of that and the Optics of that just erods the confidence once again the trust that athletes have and again I'm not saying there's a quidd proquo there but clearly the perception of a conflict and having money on the one hand extra and sponsorships and then allowing China to sweep these tests on the carpet is is incredibly troubling right and you've spoken um quite a bit about some of what you would do um one of them you mentioned was a sepen um and as a country who gives the most money I would think that would be something that we would do uh that we would say hey if we're going to give you money you got to be here and answer questions uh so thank you for for bringing that up um you also brought up conditioning money how would you condition the money you talked a little bit about uh disclosure of documents and audit um how would you draft that just for our guidance on going back as mentioned to talk to appropriators what kind of conditions on on the money would you place fantastic an incredibly important question when Russia happened the taxpayer money that went to the White House Office of National Drug control policy it was seen as a contract that had to be paid Congress changed that it's now discretionary ondcp the director Dr Gupta who sits on the executive committee at w he and that office has the power to pay the money or not to pay the money we would recommend very strong language and the reporting of that money and condition the payment of that money on the three things that I asked for and there may be additional things that can be asked for and make sure that the White House office um you know adheres to how Congress expects its taxpayer money to be spent and and ensure that we're spending it in in the right ways and and make no mistake we we need and have to have a strong water and maybe we need to pay more but we should not continue to pay bad money after money when we've seen this pattern of behavior happen well great thank you um I am represent a district in Southern California and so we my district uh is going to have the Olympics come there and swimming will be there and so I'm super excited about it um but we don't want to have this hanging over our head either we don't want to have athletes um second guessing the competition and uh to hear today the athletes talk about the mental health impacts is something that is not talked about very often and something that we need to continue continue to focus on and make sure that we're addressing this so thank you so very much for all the witnesses and for the committee I appreciate it thank you very much for your questions uh I'm now going to recognize Miss caster for a few wrapup questions if you can stay with us just a couple more minutes we're almost done thank you Mr tiger thank you Mr tiger uh two just simple questions to wrap up um and thank you for recognizing the W whistleblowers and the investigative reporters who have helped bring some of this to light so the um summer OIC games in Tokyo they were July 23rd August 8th 2021 uh chinata had collected the samples from the Chinese swimmers that January um and reported to W was that was that really done through the international testing agency and the doping Control Officers what what is what is what is that what is that step that that they that W actually received the reports about The the Chinese swimmers yeah the the Chinese anti-doping agency chinata as we understand what's been reported collected the samples sent them to the Beijing laboratory that ran the samples they were positive for these low levels of TMZ they reported those as required into the atom system so wada and World Aquatics were on notice in March as they've said of these positive tests that were collected in early Jan there have been any way for them to to when they went to the laboratory for them to say oh they're all clean and no problem here or is there there's some is there some check at the at the U with the dope and Control Officers or the testing agency or World Aquatics well certainly we saw in Russia the lab itself was corrupt and was not doing the job that it was required to do here the lab and good for the lab ran the samples and reported them to wada it then fell back to chinata who brought in the government to help them with the investigation and they come up came up with this story that it was contamination then chinata swept them under the carpet and didn't follow the rules that they were required to follow and then sent that file as they're required to W who was okay with it okay that's helpful so the um the international Olympic Committee they say right in their mission statement I read it at the start of the hearing that they exist to encourage and support the promotion of ethics and good governance in sport to protect clean athletes and the Integrity of sport by Leading the fight against doping and by taking action against all forms of man manipulation of competitions and related corruption what can the ioc do now that this has come to light they they could solve the problem tomorrow they could remove themselves from the governing boards so remove the fox from guarding the hen house and continue to fund and maybe also increase their funding and let W be the Watchdog not their lap dog when it comes time to enforcing the rules and what what recourse for the since they have athletes that are headed to to Paris would there be some recourse there as well we we have to get to the we athletes deserve justice and it's not just us athletes other athletes that swam in the 2021 Olympics and athletes who are going into the Paris Olympics for 2024 we have to get Justice For Those athletes it's not fair for them to be haunted as you heard from Allison Schmidt for the rest of their lives whether or not those athletes from China who had these positive tests should have been there or not and it's why we need someone that understands the rules it's given the freedom and the access to dive into the cases themselves not a review of what w did but actually get to the facts of the cases prosecute the cases like we have called for from the very beginning and get justice for all the world's athletes thank you I yield back J lady yields back I have a few follow-up questions one I thought it was a good point you made earlier that uh some of the Chinese swimmers were not uh did not test positive for the uh illegal substance and they too were cheated that's right and so when you talk about the athletes of the world it's it includes the Chinese athletes or in the case of Russia the Russian athletes who maybe didn't get that uh that spot that number one or two spot because they were knocked out because of uh performance-enhancing drugs by some of their uh colleagues uh we talked about how we give about $4 million to w we talked about the international Olympic Committee being on the W board and therefore you've got the uh Fox watching the hen housee and I think it was in your testimony but I don't want to put words in your mouth because it's been a long night and I don't know that I remember but I believe in your written testimony you indicated that maybe NBC as a major contributor of funds to the ioc might have influence on this as well did I remember that correctly or was that somebody else's I I for sure made reference to the sponsors listen it it it's you can look at the numbers the US companies including NBC that pays a lot of money to broadcast it in the largest market most valuable Market here in the United States have a lot of influence at the ioc we would hope the sponsors will listen to the athletes and finally say enough is enough enough ioc get this fixed and it's a simple fix make it independent have it do the right thing to try to win this for clean athletes not just go through a charade where we pretend that we have clean sport but but actually provide clean Sport and look I think we can say and no no country and please do not misunderstand me the US included we've had some of the most hardcore intentional cheaters look at the Lance Armstrong case go back to the Balco case we remove five medals from you know one of our top athletes back in 2000 but you can win it and you can raise a generation of athletes like you've heard from today who want to do it the right way no no kid on a playground grows up and says oh I can't wait to be an Olympian so I can inject myself with dangerous drugs it just doesn't happen people want to win the right way we know you're not a winner if you cheat to win but we have to build a system that's fair and you know firmly applies without fear or favor to the to to every country and every athlete what the rules dictate well said I yield back I want to thank all of our Witnesses but particularly you Mr tiger since you're the only one left standing the Lone Survivor uh for for your testimony today seeing there are no further members wishing to ask questions I would like to thank our Witnesses for being here uh I would ask unanimous consent to inser in the record documents included on the staff hearing documents list I don't think we have any that do we uh without objection that will be the order pursuant to committee rules I remind members they have 10 business days to submit additional questions for the record and I ask the witnesses to submit their responses within 10 business days upon receipt of the questions now that said this was a little bit of an experiment didn't work as well as I had hoped but I've been advocating for at least six years maybe eight that we do night hearings uh so thank you Mr tiger I appreciate our other Witnesses who had to leave for participating in this experiment I want to get it shortened up where we start at 6: and we ended 8:30 but uh we'll make it happen without objection so sub commmittee is adjourned for

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Length: 121min 45sec (7305 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 26 2024