Live Beyond Fear: Jimmy Chin & Chai Vasarhelyi on 'Free Solo' | Rich Roll Podcast

[Music] does it feel different to be up there without a rope it's obviously like much higher consequence people who know a little bit about climbing they're like oh he's totally safe and then people who really know exactly what he's doing are freaked out I've thought about I'll cap like four years then every year I'm like that's really scary I'll never be content unless I at least put in the effort El Cap is the most impressive wall on earth it's 3,200 feet of sheer granite it's the center of the rock climbing universe obviously I'd get interview questions about it all the time Oh would you like to do that you're like yes for sure so you're a girlfriend now I heard as awesome pretty much makes life better in every way it's really hard for me to grasp the why he wants this but if he doesn't do this stuff he'd regret it everybody who is made free soloing a big part of their life is dead now I haven't been injured in like seven years I suddenly start getting injured all the time what if something happens what if I don't see him again I could just walk away but it's like I've always been conflicted about shooting a film about free soloing just because it's so dangerous it's hard to not imagine your friend falling through the frame to his death I think when he's free to enjoy a feels the most alive most everything how can you even think about taking it away from somebody no mistakes tomorrow starting to come sight if you're pushing the edge eventually you find the edge [Music] I can't believe you guys actually hey Jimmy do you copy things just started quite [Music] super excited to have you guys here today delighted to be able to talk to you about free solo and your life creativity and art and commerce and everything so welcome thank you great to be here it's very nice to be it's cool I'm fascinated by your relationship both personal and working relationship like it's got to be a cool and at times I would imagine challenging dynamic to work together on a creative project or projects that you guys both feel so passionately about but and please correct me if I'm wrong I feel like this is like a divine pairing like the expertise that you bring Jimmy and Shai that you bring creates this beautiful complement complimentary sort of set of skills that allows both of your work to like go to the next level and I think free solo is a perfect example of that if you so is it is it is the manifestation of that yeah along with what Alex brought uh-huh and you always need the good subject yes but no I think it's because he brought so much of his craft to I'll cap that in kind of it pushed Jimmy and and that and his high angle team to bring their best and then I pushed Jimmy and I his directors to bring our best yeah but I mean yes the free so is a very good example or manifestation of how Jimmy our partnership works yeah and it's it is like the evolution from Meru also I feel like climbing movies have been sort of tiptoeing up against the this barrier of trying to break through to mainstream audiences it seems like valley uprising was was a solid attempt at doing that it didn't quite get the penetration that I feel like it deserved and then Meru went a long way towards introducing mainstream audiences to this world that you're so passionate about that runs through your blood but free solo is like next level importantly came out yes no but I think that you're you're right that you know that cross-pollination essentially from Chai's talents and where she comes from and her very strong background blast with 15 years of you know serious nonfiction documentary work combined with you know what I've what I've been doing for 20 years and you know I think the biggest thing is that there's a lot of trust there and you know sometimes I wonder you know I in some ways our our working relationships on films on this film it's almost simpler a convert are compared to like being married and having children are all those things because we you know I think it's really very easily recognizable like what we each bring to the table on that level and I guess it's it's it's similar ya know it's hard I mean the it was wonderful to bring our children to somebody you know and it was definitely part of my motivation was keeping everyone together and bringing our children to this wonderful place but now in this part right like you've got both parents on the road and that's hard yeah so it's they're kind of those very practical considerations that become tough on us as a family yeah but in the work in the work it's really it it works because Jimmy and I trust each other so much like I know he's gonna make the right decisions when he's shooting uh-huh he trusts when I'm asking for something that I'm asking for it for a reason like you know get that shot and it's really important that we film that um and it kind of works that way and like just even on this film like they're toiling away on the on the wall with Alex for eight hours ten hours and then Alex you know Alex it's down but they're still up there kind of you know huh gathering the ropes and getting down and you know myself and a different team like a Verret a cinematographer would be there to talk to Alex about life and love yeah his dad and you need both I mean Jimmy you know on the one hand like you're the only person who could be doing what you're doing you have the climbing expertise in the background and the experience and you have this incredible acuity with the camera your cinematographers eye and then cha you bring the emotionality and the narrative structure to this to really take these extraordinary visuals and turn them into a narrative that will connect with people's hearts is that fair I think it's fair but I think that it's often easy to underestimate Jimmy in that particular respect whereas I think we have a great cheat so to speak where Jimmy in this one bring such an intimate knowledge of this world and I often feel like just more of an interpreter for like his instincts and bring some exteriority to it yeah because what I think would also is strong that the film is it looks at Alex's interior life and tries to build a story while also aspiring to be something that the core respects mm-hmm right like that there's an authenticity that is a hundred percent Jimmy yeah you have to serve two masters right you don't you can't alienate the hardcores but you also have to make it appealing and interesting and compelling for somebody who knows nothing about this world yes it has it has to make both of us happy which is kind of nice right yeah yeah yeah yeah and it works that way I mean I think she's very accurate about that in the sense that you know a lot of the heart and the soul of both Mara and free solo are ideas that you know I've experienced are seeing or feel deeply about because I've been in this world and they're the great lessons or the great conflicts internal conflicts that I have suffered or people around me my peer-group have experienced you know those are ideas that are really the inspiration behind the films you know the mentorship and the camaraderie and the friendships that I felt so deeply you know that have driven me to make these films the task though is that I've never it's you're so close to it it's really hard to translate and like I said I mean chai has been like being the great interpreter she has been able to kind of stand outside of it and be able to tell that story in a way that people can digest it right and that is really powerful because I have not you know I know it well and so those are the conversations you know entire nurse sitting there in the Edit room or when we're making these films it's you know she's just kind of you know her first strokes editor usually very good and then and then we start to kind of refine those things and then also making sure you know of course it has to also speak to the core like there's no way I'm ever gonna put out a film where I can't feel proud walking into a room full of my peer group yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but I would suspect that from your perspective Jimmy you may think you're conveying a certain point because you're so close to it and chai can say yeah you think you're seeing this but actually I'm not getting it or the average person is not gonna understand what you're trying to convey it's more like that's a wonderful point it's very important that we achieve this other thing uh-huh we get to that other thing and then I'm like okay let's go back to what Jimmy was saying right um and see if we can make it work within what we've done uh-huh series polishing each other stones yeah yeah and it's really important it's like this concept that was incredibly important in the film is a good example about preserving Alex's experience of Clym right like that's actually the most important part of the task for for us was to make sure that Alex enjoyed and got what he wanted out of this but that is a very elusive idea for people who don't understand my right [Music] all right Jim's gonna follow you guys down partway Claire's gonna pick you guys up at the bottom of the gully going into the base we're good we'll be shooting on the wall she's ever once we pass you guys you guys wrap it and hike to the summit basically yeah Jimmy and I have worked together for 10 years we've climbed all over the world 70 we're gonna be as chances yo the team that Jimmy assembled are all professional climbers the best possible crew for this kind of thing its own way I'm like this is kind of Awesome you know it's kind of just like I get to go plan with all my friends [Music] Mikey we should put someone right here because if you lean out you can see the entire frickin roof then let's just put the hundred meter there in the corner here doubled up I've known Alex since he pretty much started climbing in Yosemite in two thousand eight or nine I've filmed Alex a handful of times free soloing and then we've also spent a couple winners together down in South America we the times added up I spent a lot of time with him now so I'm scared cuz I don't want to see anything happen to Alex I mean it's one of the reasons I almost said no to this job and I mean I think Jimi went through the same stuff of being like do we really want to be part of this I've always been conflicted about shooting a film about free soloing just because it's so dangerous it's hard to not imagine your friend Alex soloing something that's extremely dangerous and you're making a film about it which might put undue pressure on him to do something and him falling through the frame to his death and we have to work through that and understand that what we're doing is something that we can live with even in a worst-case scenario it's an extraordinary accomplishment this movie and it's a very delicate tightrope walk because the simple fact that you're present around him inevitably influences him and that's something you explore in the movie and trying to remain adequately removed so he has the space to do what he does and in the way that he aspires to do it while also trying to you know responsibly document it so you can tell the story I mean it's cube you know try to solve that yeah and I love how you kind of break the fourth wall with that I mean you bring the filmmaker in the filmmaking process into the actual narrative of the movie and that really elevates the the compelling nature of the story that you're trying to tell it's like that physics thing like the simple observation of of a subatomic particle is going to you know change its position in nature right and that's a micro example of what you are experiencing just trying to be there and I don't want to you know spoil it for people that haven't seen it but that gets played out you know in in a pretty interesting way yeah no I think you have it I mean it it's a lot also about respect for the craft and the athlete and you know I mean you you as an athlete I mean you know that you don't want to like take away from the whole inspiration of the film you know by being there and filming him it's always been a conundrum in my field or you know because especially in climbing and probably in you know surfing and there's this whole idea of purity right of the of why you do it you know and and we addressed that too you know you see Peter Croft in the film being like you know when people asked me if they could fill me on an Astra man I was like no not in yeah you know and in that moment Alex lights up like a Christmas tree you can see the respect that he has for this guy and he can really hear what he's telling him and Alex you can almost see the gears in his brain turning like am I making a mistake like yeah is this a demonstration of a lack of integrity because he's like look I have a film crew with me like how do I do this and the and the the the old sage is saying like I wouldn't do that you know and he's like you can see him like really having a moment of reckoning with that yeah and Peter's like the great you know Yoda for all writers you know for he's been the one like the chosen one for four generation and so his his words weigh heavily for sure but it was interesting because that decision to include the filmmakers you know it was a hard one and it it was one of those things that we had to see if we could make it work in a in a true way on different levels right and without it yes yeah and without it you did you did a cut without that it was always about degree but the filmmakers right how much do we put in like and also what is it really about you know so it's it's not about the people are interested in how we did it right like that would be like the clear one reason why you include them because people want to see these guys hanging on ropes and they're like how did they do this how did they do this it was often a really big question of Merit where I've we're like they're like so what the fourth person was filming it you're like no where they were filming themselves yeah but what's relevant about breaking that fourth wall and bringing the filmmakers into it is this question of purity like what does it mean to do this from you know a pure place of the heart and and you're Jimmy you're like struggling with that because you have these conflicting drives right to respect what alex is trying to do and also to have some fidelity to the creative process of telling an amazing story that will inspire millions of people and the ethical questions of what is right yeah I mean causes right to die yeah what does that mean you're shouldering this incredible ethical conundrum this burden of being respond not responsible necessarily but a participant in something that could be fatal and that seemed essential to include yeah because it also gets to the existential heart of the movie itself right because in dealing with that ethical question about how what is our responsibility in this situation you have to stop and think about all the worst-case scenarios and then think about the reasons why you would make a film like this like what is it is it justifiable like is that worthwhile and you know it gets to then that idea of Alex living a life of intention and every day is exactly what he's wanted what he wants to do he's thought deeply about his own mortality and his own death and he chooses to do this and and you know and for us that that that idea like a life of intention makes it worthwhile right clearly we thought he would not get hurt we trusted him deeply we had trusted him to make the right decisions and not to climb you know like you see in the film I decide not to climb but it was you know including the crew was a way to get there to talk about this I mean also you know what is has always been a solo endeavor for Alex like he's in a van he gets up and he goes and does this and no one knows about it maybe someone later you know reports it on a climbing blog his greatest free solo of his life ended up being about a connection rather than being isolated you know he had his best friends next to him for a year and a half training alongside him giving him feedback trying to refine their shots while he's are fighting his moves yeah um and all saying like we're never gonna ask you whether or not you're gonna actually climb and we like you for who you are you know you're you and we're still here and any of this woman who entered his life who for I think for probably the first time in his life said I'm gonna tell you how I feel about this but I still love you yeah you know and I'm not going I'm gonna try not to go anywhere so I think that it was this weird process for Alex that it became about connecting with people and communing with people sharing an experience whereas it always had been just this alone like loner endeavor for him and the crew was a way of bringing that to life by showing the crews feelings about this and how they interact with Alex was our way of trying to get to that truth you know from a psychological perspective he's such a fascinating person unique and and really funny you know that comes across really well in the movie yeah in a you know just a quirky bizarre kind of way and to kind of echo what you said about you know the solo pursuit of what he's doing and then and then trying to grapple with the community component that the amazing variable is you know enter stage left girlfriend which is like a filmmakers dream right because that just takes the narrative in a new direction and makes it so much more layered and complex and interesting if it's stuck if it's stuck yeah yeah yeah sure perspective which I would imagine on some level reflects your perspective being in a relationship with Jimmy right like what does it like to be in a relationship with somebody who's constantly going at who's compelled to do these death-defying you know adventures and I also loved how you explored Alex's background particularly his father and what his father struggled with and I couldn't help but wonder like well what what like remnants of that lives within Alex like not that he is you know has Asperger's or anything like that but there's something unique about his personality type that makes him perfectly you know a perfect fit for what he loves to do and it was really important to us to explore like Alex's origins like where he came from and explore his most influential relationships and you know Alex's dad was a really tricky one because you know Alex's dad died I want to say 11 years ago or 12 years ago he dropped at an airport of a heart attack and his parents had gotten divorced about a year prior to that and so there's this absence right there was no one to speak for Alex's dad who had belaid Alex for thousands of hours in this climbing gym and probably didn't say much but showed up and belayed him right like Alex's sister puts it the best being like I was wonder if my dad had lived if he would call and say a sentence about each book he read instead of just telling me the titles yeah his man didn't speak very much and but he was very present so I think there's definitely some a part of Alex's dad and Alex are probably like inclines him towards what he's doing mm-hmm um but I think that what you see if his mom is very interesting you know this idea of perfection is clearly like from his mother yeah it's weird though cuz I don't get that vibe from her she doesn't strike me as somebody who's some kind of taskmaster who's who's like you know you have to be perfect but clearly that's you know Alex's recollection or perception of his upbringing well I mean she's a published author she runs marathons she's a concert pianist and I mean I don't know if she held him I think she clearly held him to this standards like good and good good enough isn't it what's the other one it's good enough isn't is the best one yeah yeah um but also held herself to their standards uh-huh you know but she grew up in a different time right she's a Sacramento teacher you know from New York who moved in with this Northern California family mm-hmm as somebody who's not a client like I'm not a climber thought I've watched a bunch of climbing movies I've gotten to know some of the climbers and I know lots of extreme athletes who do crazy things and I went into the movie and and I had met Alex and Alex you know sat right where you're sitting and got to know him a little bit so I went into the movie thinking like I pretty I know what this is about like you know I'm familiar with the story and I get it and you know it didn't take very many minutes into the movie where until I had this daunting epiphany like oh I don't understand this at all you know I this is like way more complicated and intense and hardcore than I could have ever imagined and Tommy kind of says it in the movie he's like you know people think oh yeah he's gonna free solo that's what he does like I just thought like you know he's just he picks these routes and he just goes up and it's the climbers who really know who have the great appreciation for just how super gnarly the whole thing is and the diligence and the preparation the attention to detail and the focus that he demonstrates like that montage where you have the voice-over of him reading from his Diaries and you're like he has every maneuver completely devoted to memory all the way up this wall yeah and it really boils down to those three or four tricky moves to make it work for him no absolutely I mean I think I I know it's really almost impossible for a non climber to imagine the scope of the difficulty because it's hard for a professional climber it's hard for me to understand even how difficult it is it's truly beyond what you know we were even talking about it wasn't something that climbers are sitting around the campfire talking about you know because it wasn't just it's just wasn't even on the radar of a possibility it's just so far out there and you know I've been filming and shooting in this space for 20 years and and worked with many of the best you know Peter craft included Dean Potter and and many other incredible how these people Conrad at the peak of their careers and some of their top achievements also in the ski mountaineering world and snowboarding and you know just a lot for a good mix of extreme athletes and I just haven't seen anything like it you know when Alex came on the scene and he kind of came out of nowhere when when I first heard about him soloing moonlight buttress and Half Dome I mean honestly I you know didn't believe it I was like there's no way somebody just showed up and did that you thought it was just apocryphal or somebody made it up or yeah I know you know I had to I did I dug I was like no way there's no way and and El Cap is you know several magnitudes more difficult than Half Dome like many more it's just was so much more difficult and I I don't know if there's a good way to put it I mean it's like yeah I think about in the world of running like a marathon it's like people are talking about that person that's gonna break the two hour right here right and then someone shows up and runs a marathon in under an hour uh-huh you know wherever these like that it's that crazy yeah you're like what would who's who's talking about running a marathon under an hour yeah this is not physically possible well that's all we so we believe I sell we believe yeah and so for a you know to imagine somebody it's just it's a combination of not necessarily physically possible but it's just mentally there's no way someone could keep it together like that it's just unimaginable so when how does this all come together at some point Alex had to be declarative like I'm gonna do this right to at least you know get you guys in motion and thinking about the idea of doing a movie on this yeah well it's a funny story because you know Jay and I were talking about different potential films after mehru and and a few people had been approaching us and so we kind of thrown it out there that we were gonna you're thinking about making a film about Alex but it was more of a character portrait you know a character study of Alex and all his achievements up to before I'll cap were already worthy of you know an incredible film and so Ivan climbing filming and traveling with Alex for 10 years and knowing pretty well that Chie didn't know him as well so she wanted to spend some time with him and he came out to New York and I was on another project out of the country or out of out of the state but she was spending time with Alex and he came to stay with us yeah yeah which in itself is a great story but we'll leave it at that um what come on say that I can't he wasn't alone that's for though all right it wasn't to my great surprise and but it was a for breakfast that he basically just came out with it and said I'm thinking about free soloing I'll Catherine if there's a movie it should be about that and she's like oh that sounds great like as a filmmaker I was like okay okay that sounds amazing great that's big and then I told Jimmy and I think I was the first person Alex ever said it to out loud directly um and I told Jimmy and you were like no way like too risky we can't do it I was like he didn't say that visitors know it he did he said what you know I made her repeat herself like multiple times because I'm like he's never said it to me he's never said it to anybody I've known and obviously we're very conscious of it cuz I you know all of his friends in the back of our minds you know we didn't even want to think about it but back there we kind of could tell like everything he had been doing has been leading towards a particular direction and the end of that path there's a giant 3,000 foot wall you know right and so unimaginable and set against the backdrop in which a lot of sponsors are you know dropping these athletes because the risk factor is so high and it's just too trepidatious for you know a brand to be involved in something that could lead to a fatality right yeah cliff dropped all the people whose solos as opposed to racecar driving right correct those cars flip all the time though for the most part those guys seem to walk away I don't know how that works but yeah yes so so alright so you're like there's no way right so your initial your impulse was okay we can't make him we can't be involved in this or you just didn't believe that it was me we need to let's let's take a step back here for a moment and really think about this let's let's we have to answer some very hard questions you know is this ethical do we trust him do we trust that we're able to do a production around this without you know causing him harm is he is the production gonna you know the external pressure of the production gonna push him to do something he wouldn't want to do it wouldn't normally do you know just a lot of those questions and and there's a couple months where I just tried to shut it down and and stop thinking about it but you know people were interested and so we had that kind of make a decision and I think six months into the process which I and I were hanging out with John Krakauer and you know the author and he's a very good friend and mentor really and you know we kind of dropped it on him it was even hard to say it's like hey cuz he was like what do you guys thinking about next and we were like we're thinking about and film on Alex he's like oh that would be a great film and you're like well he's thinking about soloing I'll cap and I remember we were walking down the sidewalk and he stopped and he looked over and he's like what cuz that John yeah like yeah he's he's thinking about soloing like happen you know John took a minute to absorb it but then I was like well what do you think and he just looked at us and he's like well is he gonna do it anyways and we were like yeah probably you know he's like you've been filming with him for 10 years you know as well as anybody this is what you do mm-hmm you know do you trust anybody else to do it mm-hmm no you're the only team that could that could if he is gonna do it anyway that kind of answers the ethical dilemma aspect of it but then I would imagine yeah you're like shaking your head right I mean it doesn't let us off that it doesn't let you off the hook but I would imagine that there was then a lot of conversations about what the ground rules would be for how you would capture this yeah we had to build guidelines for ourselves what is that free lawyer um well I mean the the most poignant one is like one could never ask Alex if he was gonna freak out if he was ready if he was gonna go any of it and if you just stop and think about what that looks like that's kind of mean it's a staggering for a documentary film like you've got how many people waiting everyday in place ready to go your burn rate being very hot right cuz that was the other thing too I just I just I guess I just assumed that there would be a date on the calendar and that that was gonna be the day that he was gonna do it and everybody would be ready and it's not it's like that well if he could just you know do it went out whenever the moment whenever you can felt inspired to do it when he felt in his soul that he was ready that it would just happen and you had to be on standby the whole time as an open timeline how long did that go on for it felt like forever do this yeah I mean obviously we we were seeing him train and we could tell you know where he was in his kind of fitness program I mean the other thing that's like amazing and I think that people take for granted is that there's no coach for this there's no diagram for how you train best for free soloing I'll cap I mean he invents it himself and so you know we're also friends and climbing partners so he's explaining like how he's training and what you know so we're getting indications you know clearly you know we know what the problem areas are on the climb you know obviously the free blasts and you know the enduro corner and clearly definitely the boulder problem there's a bunch of other sections and he he starts to work the route he starts to kind of systematically tick off the sections he knows that he's comfortable with and like the monster off with like they're all these pitches that are notorious among professional climbers you know professional climbers going to free climb meaning climbing without using points of aid still using a rope but you know there are sections on that route that are notoriously difficult but the boulder problem has a 10-foot section that's incredibly difficult it's a very intricate sequence you've got your right hand on a crimp left hand on a side pull and then you put your right foot on to this dimple thing right hand is up to a small down point crimp left foot goes into a little dish and then you drive up off the left foot into the thumb press that's the worst hold on the entire route so you get maybe half your thumb on the hold then you've roll your two fingers over the thumb switch your feet left foot stems out to this really bad sloping Blackfoot hold switch your thumbs and then reach out left to a big sloping bread loaf type hold that feels kind of grainy from there either karate-kick or doubled I know to an edge on the opposite wall in some ways it makes more sense to do the big two-handed jump because you're jumping to a good edge so there's actually something to catch but the idea of jumping without a rope seems completely outrageous if you miss it that's that the way that you took something that would be very difficult for the average person to understand and translated it in a way that was not only understandable but made it like more compelling like oh my god here he is he's on that at one point that is gonna be this is the defining moment you know like he did a great job of creating like a tense narrative around those moments thank you yeah thank you what is it that I'm sorry go you know some of there was some really valuable lessons learned of Mary mm-hmm which made give us more confidence and decisions we made about how to do that where you could walk you could see a lot of details you didn't need to know what they were called you didn't need it was all about his own experience of that challenge and there's you know spivot things like the thumbs like you know no never forget those thumbs what exactly it's called is it called a pinch or whatever it doesn't really matter right or pitches think maybe there was a lot of information that was okay if it was not included uh-huh when he finally went it's the moment and he's beginning that was in the wake of another attempt where he decides it's not the right day and you guys make adjustments and how you're gonna document this because there's some sense that that it's your your process was a little bit too I don't know invasive or in his face or something like that and you have the cameras that are then like in the valley with these huge long lenses but you were still I mean you seem to have plenty of document you were on the wall and you had the drones and all that kind of stuff right like how what were the adjustments that you made so that you could still make sure that you were getting the most riveting version of this without being overly interfering the main adjustment was that a rule that always existed was like really enforced about Alex could only see you if you were filming him on and on from the mountain right so but mostly was about off for them yeah like that we had 15 people in the valley but he didn't know that he didn't know that there was 3 rented houses in Foresta you know he just didn't know the details of what was going on and in order to minimize the the pressure you know that all he knew was that you know Jimmy er and Claire Popkin or sit hanging out in his van you know um you know and trusting us that if the TAM time came we would be in place um but in terms I think that there's kind of a almost a misperception of what it was like on the wall like when you asked about the guidelines like the main guideline also is that these are elite pro climbers right you know Jimmy on the team they are no longer criteria you know they're elite pro climbers so that dangling 20,000 feet to 2,000 feet in the air is normal right and they're comfortable there so it's not really a question if they would ever drop something or let a rope swing like that their main job is to make sure that never happens and I think that Alex trusted you know really trusted the people around him so that you know they are dangling next to him and you know the the mountain is is undulated so you can be quite close without him seeing you but he still needs to know that you're there because no surprise is like that's the worst thing for him and he can hear you but um you know there are adjustments like the boulder problem remote cameras whereas a decision that everyone came to together because his issue was not about dying it was about having a friend of his watch him die yeah which in itself is remarkable right this guy think about someone else's emotional experience of his own death the guy who really had of always a very hard time thinking about what anyone else felt but also very undramatic about it like these lights well you know like yeah I'm gonna I got ya he's so bad he's like so mater he's like it's great well yeah of course I don't want to die but like you know dying while my friends watching me well you know yeah that would be kind of a bummer you know he's so low-key about it now it and it comes with the territory when you spend a lot of time in that space you know and and he says that all the time he's like you know free soloing gives me perspective because when I'm standing in the airport line and there's a guy in front of me just having a like fit like he can you know he's like well at least you're not gonna die right and you can kind of keep it yeah I feel like with Alex the you know the line of questioning is always like you know what's your relationship with fear and death and all of these things and people have a hard time wrapping their heads around it and I kind of look at him as somebody who has perhaps one of the healthiest relationships with death because he's so close to it all the time that allows his life to present itself in Technicolor right like he's able to be incredibly present and like grateful for the moment that he's in because he's so closely connected to this thing that's gonna happen to all of us but which we all dismiss or try to pretend you know isn't going to happen yeah no I think you're absolutely right about that and that that comes back to the the idea of his you know intention in living intentional living hmm I mean he is acutely you know aware of of his time and and that even for us being around him for this long it has it has like rubbed off you know has affected us think in what way just he he walks the walk you know I mean he he holds himself to a very high standard and and then you see him you know whether it's executing on his climbing or if it's carrying a dirty old you know a half liter Nalgene not a Nalgene bottle bit like a Gatorade or a bottle that he's had for six months and you know he's put protein drinks in it every day for six months and carries him around internationally the same old yes because it's a perfectly good bottle and it still doesn't leak and it still does its job I mean the pants he's wearing on the climb he's you know by the time he climbs you you look at the bottom of his afraid if they're afraid of him those pair that pair of pants he did like a legendary climb like years before one of the great Alpine climbs of all time where he did the entire Fitz Traverse and Patagonia but anyways that's another story but it was a tremendously difficult climb and he shredded his pants on it and then we saw him in New York and we're like what are those pants you're wearing and he's going on his book tour and he's like oh these are the same pants I wore my Fitz Traverse and I'm going on a date in them tonight you know I mean yeah to the point being like you know he's very conscious of not being wasteful yeah and you can't be around that all the time without starting to see you know your own actions over the course of the day well that red t-shirt is he's in LA in like every photo he's wearing the same red t-shirt well there's there's a logic behind that too and I get that beyond not being wasteful he also he always wants to minimize variables so he wants to wear the exact same clothing on the actual climb that he has trained him that's why in the morning he gets up and he already has his muesli breakfast built and the exact same time.he for the month leading up to it he was getting up at 4:00 in the morning so that he would be regular mm-hmm at 5:00 go to the bathroom because he knew he would start up the wall at 5:00 and he didn't want to make it feel early and he wanted have gone to the bathroom and he wanted have had his breakfast and so he so that when the day came he could just go on autopilot and everything would be the same it's amazing you mentioned the book to her so Alex is on this book tour speaking tour and as was you talked about this at the premiere when you're on stage like he he was like on tinder or whatever and trying to get a date like in every city totally he actually did send updates in every city it was I just wanted to raise my hand and say like please read me what your Twitter what your tinder profile said like I would love to see like how he characterized himself you know it's that fancy site like the riot it's not a Riya Riya Riya mine's your Instagram feed and your Pandora like preferences so it was basically heavy metal photos of Alex shirtless hmm like in spectacular place oh my god and it was hilarious I could always be like what do you tell these women that you do for a little bit uh-huh do you tell them that you live in a van like yeah and it was amazing cuz we're like great we have like documentaries are never funny enough like I it's always my dream to like make it very funny documentary and it was a great we've got a funny documentary which'll help because the stakes are terrifying on this film and it'll be a way to give people a release and then sunny arrived yeah so she moved into the van with us we were there first so but she is just a very special person yeah it was it was a real turning point for the film yeah and and one of the things that you said that that evening at the premiere was how important it was to you into the movie to get that part of the story right so what is it that you really wanted to make sure that got properly conveyed by virtue of that relationship well I think in all of our films and together being very mindful and thoughtful about how everyone is represented is really important and but especially you know the women in the film I mean the men too but it just seemed that there are always women in these particular types of stories have always have often died been portrayed a certain way it was like what was me I'm staying at home and these women are not like that and Sahni is a very good example of someone who is emotionally articulate and self-confident enough to push back on Alex but also find this place where she can love him for who he is which was like a revelation for Alex like he I don't think he's ever had that experience like I don't think his parents looked at him outright I think but so just giving her the space and allowing the discomfort of what it felt like when she pushed back on Alex right before the client liked it because it's an incredibly uncomfortable moment in the film it makes you feel conflicted about her conflicted about him but just allowing those moments to live because that was the right thing to make it was the right representation it's honest yeah it's so human it's so is she it's sort of a passive-aggressive comment that she makes it's like you know it's okay if you don't do this you know and you're like what's behind that the dream I dreamt that you fell in the same place the date and we know that he's climbing he's gonna go free solo in two days she doesn't know like those are really difficult things to include and to witness but it just seemed really important for her character and for his character and do you feel like Alex compartmentalizes all of that or is he really does that on his I mean he's very clear like this isn't going to influence my decision but I would on a human level it's hard to imagine that it doesn't impact how he thinks about what he does I think if he were to answer the question now it would clearly impact what he does like they were six months into a relationship he was nine years into a dream and that I think he I think he's being very candid when he says that you know that's understandable this was a dream he had and then he met someone and where is that gonna go they don't know um but I think that if like they're still together it's been three years and that's a different type of conversation now which is interesting and you know I'm very happy for Alan right so what does it look like now then so it do you think it will have some level of impact on what he chooses to do next yeah at this point yeah I think so and and I mean he's already you know admittedly changed in in ways particularly he said you know when I watched the film I see these things that I say to her and I think wow that's I need to work on that I mean you know yeah he has a really a deep sense of self-awareness around these things I think he does and he doesn't know it's a he doesn't sometimes in the moment but then on reflection he is all about self-betterment you know all the time so it was whether it was the eating vegetables or not knowing how to hug and learning how to hug he's constantly looking for best practices but they they often feel very unemotional and like ya know baat ik yeah kind of throws people and his friends but that makes it comedic - yeah he's generally honest yeah he's trying to be right yeah yeah you know he's trying I should be more emotional like oh no I'm at the you know there's that point in the film he's like I'm feeling quite emotional you're right and that bad is like him being emotional him being like that's a he's saying like I'm glad ya Spock is he yeah his nerves right cuz some pens were like hello right right right right well the most uncomfortable he looks in the entire movie is when he's standing in that house in Vegas they're like shopping and you're like I'm almost like uncomfortable watching him you doing that is like it's so out of place ya know and he's trying he's like I want to do this and he's you can you know he's I don't know it just it was fascinating to watch that without him saying anything I think he's trying really hard and I think I don't think alex is ever gonna change feels this range of emotions whereas most people feel maybe that range of emotions I don't think that will change for him yeah but I do what I think is like I think we've been thinking a lot as we're talking and about this with other people and being asked these questions I've been thinking a lot about the motive his motivations are the why in his idea of self betterment cuz I don't think it's necessary about self-betterment the more I think about it I think you know like what he says other people seem to enjoy hugging I might as well try that I think it's about communicating you know it's about him trying to understand more about what other people think having more in common with people like there's what would a normal human being do in this situation you know and try and trying to understand that experience like normal people should have a house like yeah should have a house he is an alien that came to Planet Earth yes studying what it means to be human he wants to touch people and that's really interesting to me what what didn't make it into the final edit that like was difficult for you to cut out like some other aspects of this story you know we had the real privilege of having time when we made this film so we worked like we tried everything but there's no idea that wasn't tried and the question is did we go back again to try it like that's kind of the level of how much playing we were doing like once we got the film to a certain place to be of did we actually go back to that original idea and see we could make it work and I guess there's there's nothing I regret that we regret yeah there's one thing that popped up the other day that I kind of began to regret which was the rock there was a rock that fell in Morocco yeah while they were climbing it was it was a freak normal like it's something that happens on climbs but it was pretty dramatic but we didn't get it on camera uh-huh and everyone was very shook like shaken up and it didn't fit like we tried everything and people were too animated that didn't feel serious and but it would have been wonderful like it would have been very meaningful if we could have made that work but there are no regrets with this film like I think that we really tried everything we could and that feels good yeah you've been traveling around screening the movie all over the place it's getting you know this incredible response right now from all different kinds of people I mean you guys must just be elated and delight it's super exciting I mean I would imagine you're gonna get Oscar shortlisted you know you guys are on a incredible trajectory what is the experience been for you guys sharing the movie and watching gauging like audience reactions to it it's been humbling and and we were so immune to this one we're just so relieved that alex is fine like the best day of this production is the day he you know free so at El Cap and we knew we were okay I can't imagine the cathartic release it was it was such a profound release and release and and the thing is is I kind of had made a deal with myself or with the universe or at some point probably the month or the week leading up to when he finally did it which was that you know in those moments when you're like the idea of him pulling it off us filming it successfully everybody being okay the crew being safe it seems so out of reach and I remember thinking if if we ever pull this off if he ever pulls this off like everything else will be gravy like the film whatever happens with the film is all gonna be great and and I you know I kind of go back to that through this experience where I'm like you know what we're so fortunate to have been able to have this experience I mean the process of the production was really intense but it was like an expedition where it's difficult what the 450 des expedition yeah yeah long oh yeah but you know when you suffer through this thing achieve you know what seemed like an impossible goal and there's you know a deep satisfaction with that and so you know there's there's you we tried and we're trying to enjoy the moment or try not to put too much into it I mean we were putting everything into it but I just mean like attachment oh yeah I'm trying to stay centered about it like we appreciate looking across an ocean of heads that are like in a theater grip watching your movie I mean that feels great you know but yes we're we're just we're very happy and grateful so we were relieved when he did it and then like the on like but instead of like oh no we have to bring it now like you know we've got a big you know it's to him - Eddie's shown up in these intimate moments like we have to make the most of it so then having cruise I mean everyone was so committed and said then having that time to really experiment and explore and push was great but we became immune right I think it's not it's just a shot now when it like in the Edit room was like oh that's a nice shot of the mountain and when we went to tell you right and washed it with an audience and it was 10 o'clock at night it was the world premiere it was a huge auditorium and isn't looking at everyone from Tommy Caldwell his wife Shaunie all our cinematographers the producers sitting there in one row sobbing and experiencing probably like a profound PTSD on some level he had this exercise for three for two years it like you don't feel anything in front of Alex so no one like you put it away and suddenly if you let it out and that audience I know an audience really during it and like I'm part of this so it's just been it's been a real privilege and like a great like I I think we keep on saying to each other and I keep on saying the Jimmy and Alex a lot like this doesn't happen like this is a moment and it's really special and I wonder what it is about the film in this moment and that's kind of an interesting question yeah but um just let's just enjoy it you know it's so cool I mean it was screening at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood like when was the last time a documentary period was on the screen at that theater it's insane it's an interesting story because we were so it's all about where you opened in LA right what theater we'll take this movie and we couldn't book it we couldn't book it we couldn't book it in like three weeks before Arclight came in and that was great like it's amazing we got one of their screens at the ArcLight and it was the Wednesday before cuz everything got sold out so fast there is a sense on our side like we need more screens we need more screens and like no one wanted to give us more screens and on the Wednesday before one person from our team was checking the ticket sales and you know like tapped on the ArcLight link and saw that they had added it was like 14 more screenings on Thursday and Friday including the Cinerama Dome they gave us three screens like the whole thing it just overnight happened and that was almost that was amazing like II know right like we just didn't know yeah it's the highest per screen average of like any documentary or screen otherwise you just can't throw a number like yeah yeah the wild thing was as I'm watching it you get lost in the narrative and and and you're just like oh my god is it you know what is he gonna fall is he gonna fall and I'm like was sitting right there I know it he's fine he gave me a hug practicing his hugs so I was like it's all good yeah and yet you still couldn't help but like become incredibly tense and anxious yes ya know even when you you know what's gonna yeah yeah no it's it's funny I mean the number of people who come out of the theater that are shell-shocked and just look at you - I mean it's the number of times I've heard my hands are still sweating you know it's just I never anticipated that in much of a reaction and so I you know on the on this tour it's it's fun I love going for the last 15 minutes and you know I don't watch the movie i watch people mm-hmm and I love watching that you know people have their hands over their eyes or they're gripping their partner next to them I mean I think it's a great date movie ya know people they're having each other holding each other you know it's a horror movie it's a comedy it's just it's that has been something I didn't expect I don't really enjoy from a technical perspective I thought it was really interesting trying to deconstruct how you actually did this I mean there is a mix of special effects that are layered in and I couldn't really tell where that began and like I knew you used Google Earth yeah you have these amazing shots where you're pushing in on the wall yeah and it gave you like because you see the wall and you're like yeah that's a big wall but it's only when you kind of zeroed in on them and then you would see just how tiny you know the bodies yeah we're against it that you really got a sense of just how the largess of of the affair yeah that was definitely one of the challenges because we've all been there you know China and the whole team have stood under El Cap and I've climbed up a lot of times I mean it's this scale I mean it is so big and it's really really hard to translate that on yeah it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't get conveyed now sorry worked very hard we spent a lot of time it's a good example of our partnership for gym where you come in and watch these cuts and be like El Cap doesn't look big enough and be like you didn't give me a shot that makes it look big enough what's up they've had it for two months they still can't make it look big enough and it just cut it was the push of it's a but we could have them no it's enough information right and so finally it was it was funny it was like we are process I think it's fair to say that we keep on tweaking to the bitter end you know like I don't know until I ride him he was even the final version of the movie you know keep on tweaking and right before we were locking it was just I was walking healing the street and I was like wait Google probably has better images I wonder if they've given does hmm and then they did and so so that was very late it was very late and then it took you know weeks to negotiate them to give us the information and then the files arrived and they were too big like it was just assumed it was ingesting it into the uh-huh took weeks and then but then they were able to create this three-dimensional mountain that worked because that was the whole thing they would only be able to get in a certain in a certain tightness and that would just kind of defeat the purpose yeah you have to go other way or it's like what's the point right well I mean that was brilliant because that really did make a huge difference in helping you to understand the the gravity of the whole thing what was uh what was like the other than the simple fact that you have a dear friend who could possibly die like what is what was the hardest part of this whole process I think there was - you know I think that we both each kind of focused on tackling our respective you know spots I mean I think for as the the Verte filming and just getting putting in that time and getting Alex and Sonny to just go totally commit and give in and submit to the camera and submit what you just have to leave it rolling while they're not aware of yeah sure yes the work itself I do you think it was it was them it was the pressure it was this it was no I guess the idea that he couldn't die um they never went away um and that he woke up with every day and all we are and also like of our crew itself because normally these types of high angle shoots don't last for as long as ours did and don't have that many people so our exposure was significant yeah so the day wasn't over until they were all on the ground and that was a thing like you know you kind of you'd hopefully not eat before them and like it wasn't that wasn't the point the point was like just make sure they're back and okay yeah well then tonight Morocco is Mikey down yet are they down yeah you know I mean Morocco was pretty extreme as an experience like it's seven minutes in the movie ups three weeks of shooting and like pretty intense sit in vitam pretty intense climbing environment so I think but it was always just the idea that Alex could die and did we make the right decision as much as we believed we did then please let us have made the right decision and Alex make good decisions yeah and there was a possibility of course that he could have decided to not do it at all mhm right yeah yeah it's okay yeah that would have been fine yeah but as Alex says but the movie would just suck he decided not to do it it would be a question of when I'm not doing it this year okay we'll see you next year like waiting around for six years but you're getting kind of old Alex that's okay like you know um he was so obsessed with it that you just felt like he was gonna happen yeah and when he achieves it and he you know gets to the top and he's like I'm so delighted you know it's so there's something really childlike and innocent and and pure you know and beautiful about because it's so honest to him you know it could like funny too like what a weird thing say I mean every screening uh you know people laugh at that huh because he he's accomplished this like insane goal and he looks up and he's like I'm so delighted yeah yeah yeah he is he has this kind of way of thinking about it too which is very smart I mean he's very smart and he he's like you know I can't build it up into thing bigger than it is which would be hard anyways but his whole idea is that you know this isn't a stunt like he knows he's put the time and he knew he was ready and he wouldn't do it until he was a hundred percent you know like he wasn't gonna go for it fully if you he didn't feel comfortable walking I'm to it and going up it but his point because people have asked him about it and you know his response is like yeah I'm not like jumping up and down her joy because I you know robbed the bank and got away with it he's like I knew I had it you know and he always describes you know if you're in a if you know the emotional spectrum is one to ten he lives between 4.6 and 5.2 uh-huh and if he's super riled up he gets to like 5.6 yeah I know and so he's just that is natural of his five yes you know that smile his smile is oh yeah I mean it's a million-dollar smile but it's really just the accomplishment is just an external manifestation of who he is and what was within him the whole time you know and it wasn't it's not a destination oriented thing like that hey I did this like now I'm done and you know he goes back to the van and he's like doing pull-ups like the same day well you know it's just this is uh this is who this guy is like through through and through and through one question I have for you guys is and I'm interested if you answer this different what what do you think makes a great documentary like what are the elements that differentiate like a good documentary for from one that like really sings for me it always is about the story and I'm probably the character I know we make these visually you know we have very high expectations for herself visually but you know if it's when I was just going with our editor through like my earlier films and went back give him back to watch my first film um you know and that was shot on a you know tiny mini DV camera by me and you know and the characters in that film are just remarkable you know and so and their story was amazing so I don't you know I think of things like street fight you know Marshall Curry's film that he shot on another mini DV camera about Cory Booker you know first yeah race and you know I I think it you just have to have that story in that character and it'll make a wonderful film and then the other part of that is clearly the gays like the ga ze of it like that that your own intention as a filmmaker is it will very much define that oh you know and do you think those principles apply whether its narrative or documentary I mean you you've done a lot in in documentary filmmaking you've worked with all kinds of interesting people and made many other films but you also work with Mike Nichols on closer right like what do you learn from I mean a master storyteller that informs the films that you make now I mean it's story I mean it was always story for Mike and character I think those are his two things I think his process was really interesting like he still rehearsed he would work with the writer in rehearsal with the real actors saying their lines and like breaking it apart and how he really focused on those performances and he I mean Mike is it wasn't genius like the amount of thing like he was the type of guy that in the room he would notice what the person the coroner was saying and if it was something of you know worth he would no matter who you are he would engage because he would remember that that person had said it and and for him he was always story and characters yeah the same thing yeah Jimmy yeah I mean I how can I argue with that I don't know but I but you come to it from a more of a DP / special sure yeah I mean visually of course I mean I love you know creating the visuals yes part of what I do and who I am but I always kind of go back to what I personally loved about films and you know for films that really moved me emotionally that made me feel something who were your guys like who are that I mean like the most recent example I don't know I mean there's I guess this is more narrative but yeah I grew up what well I I'm just trying to think of something most recent like I I loved a Hurt Locker I loved Damon Zell's whiplash - I mean that you seen first man yet and we saw a first man I loved Senna - if so there's two things that I I love as when you're really moved emotionally I remember watching the power of one back you know there were some films it later that's the me feel something deeply I'm like and I love that experience because you're being transported somewhere and you feel something and I always want to make films where people feel something you know where they're like moved emotionally and I also love being transported in a world and I think Senna did this for me where you're like yeah a racecar driver I know it's kind of dangerous and like I'm not that interested in racecar driving and I came out of that movie being like you know I was like Formula One is so gnarly am I so push your edges so I get what they're pushing for and I understand the ambition and like what it means so those kind of things I have you know for marrou the previous film like those I remember Hurt Locker and Senna informed some of my mm-hmm thinking around I love the emotional yeah what's interesting about what you do though is that for most documentary filmmakers that are sort of on the periphery and I suppose for this movie you had to be more on the periphery than you usually are but but generally it's an immersive process for you where you are participant and observer at the same time which is unique which is unique like you're you're telling the story and you're part of this story as well yeah and I feel like it's always because I'm feeling deeply on these productions you know I feel something very deeply when I'm in it just because you are in it and it's I don't think it's necessarily special but but you know it's important for me you know to bring that feeling and hopefully share it you know bring it through the screen and give it to to the people watching it and that's thankfully how to try to help like Jimmy is like a literal translation of that but I think that most like waffle makers are all authors like you are active participant in what you're doing and that that's like a responsibility but at least with Jimmy like it has to be a palpable it take a palpable thing that you're you're watching it and he as he's doing it what it what do you want audiences to take away from this movie or do you want to just allow them to have their own experience but like what is your do you have an intention behind that yeah it's kind of what I took away from Alex's story which is here is this incredibly scared kid he's a loner who began climbing without a rope because it was scarier to talk to somebody to be as ask him to be his partner and who you know was intimidated by vegetables scared of hugs scared of intimacy any intimacy and methodically taught him you know to work through his own fears and that is very very moving to me because I feel like everyone has a fear like that we're not that extreme maybe but there are lots of things that scare us and the process of him working his way through his fears is what like he places himself in the most fear inducing scenarios a human being could imagine well I think it's little by little right like he practiced hugging in the Sun he introduced one vegetable a month right and yes and then he decided that he wanted to climb this mountain so he began he spent you know 15 years of his career preparing for doing something bigger and badder but I think he also has this courage that I hope people take away from the film like it's very inspiring what what he's done and how he looks at it and how he and also this communal experience that happens it's about communicating and courage and doing something so yeah and and what is it that you think makes him unique like if you had to define what makes him special and distinct from his peers within that community and even in general I think that his absolute like adherence to a life of intention makes him incredibly unique yeah um like that is real and it and inspiring its uncompromising its inspiring and then you add to that that he's clearly a genius like he's an absolute genius but he's also has this discipline that is unheard of like it is after it's disciplined I mean that's what makes him great because I'm sure Tommy could be a better climber than he is like but alex is like discipline just helps him move through all these challenges right like his talent is on par with his peers but his talent isn't the deciding factor it's not like he's more talented than anyone else it's something else not not necessarily physically right that's what I meant to say I mean he's unmatched like and his mental capacity to I mean we always kind of say that it's his one superpower yeah he has a superpower that he could exist yet it's it's like he's able to take his emotional mental physic spiritual sells and dense them to steal them down into one thing that's working in perfect unison yeah I think you're very that's a very good observation because if if you look at soloing it is it is the purest form of climbing right I mean you are stripped to even not having a harness and ropes it is the purest expression I mean maybe he could do it naked but otherwise like it is like the purest expression of climbing but you know and saying it's like it's and and he's like that he's like that should be pretty fun yeah it made me think of the guy in the bunny suit on the wall or yeah right yeah no but like you said he distills you know it's all about efficiency distilling down to these very you know everything to its finest form essentially and that is is a constant onion running in his head yeah for everything what do you think he's gonna do next I think he's you know we've had a few conversations about as this thing starting to blow out you know and get bigger and bigger talking about you know how you manage it and what you know and we talked a lot about taking taking his time you know there's no rush to be inspired again but and there's no need to force anything unless he's inspired by it and so I think he's kind of biding his time I think he's gonna pivot a lot of his attention towards his foundation which he really believes in you know his belief is like there's no use in being famous if it's not being used for good and so he has like a good pivot point for it and you know climbing has a lot of different expressions speed climbing like he finished this climb went to Alaska did a big outline climb went to Antarctica and we went to Antarctica to you he went to broke the speed record on the nose I mean he's actively training and climbing because he has other climbing goals but does he need to do another bigger solo I mean probably not I don't know I mean if he's least a higher played his man card I mean anything to prove to anybody for himself really it's just his eternal you know drive to express himself yeah and then the funny thing is it's like he did it for himself you know it wasn't even trying to play the man card yeah I mean the beautiful he has that beautiful line in the movie where he's like look it's more important to me to do this what's important is that I do this and do it the way that I want to do it not that it be documented yeah paraphrase I don't remember yeah I'm lying but I don't care if it's yeah yeah what about you guys what are you gonna do next it's a good question you set the bar pretty high that's I mean I have to seesee all that pressure but after Mary you felt that pressure profoundly because it's like doesn't get much you know we fell in love while making merry we had a child we Mary was made for nothing and then it was it made all this money like there was this like thing that you eat could we ever marry with Shakespearean as a film so I'm just excited to do something a little different like we we be I'm working on a film concurrently about Christine Tompkins and Tompkins conservation and Christine tongue is in the lead Doug Tompkins and it's kind of like an out of Africa for our generation as I gets building on this idea of intentional life of intentions a little more radical even than free soloing there's a mountain but not a main mountain it's like a whole new thing for Jimmy but these are his best friends uh-huh so and it's just I'm excited too I've never made we've never made a film about someone who's passed already and so Doug Tompkins had died several years ago tragically and like that's kind of an interesting challenge and the characters are so rich on this film and there's a lot of archival so I mean I'm excited to kind of tackle with something else while we are exploring what else is in our future yeah but it's deeply meaningful and to try and weave you know Yvonne Shannara and that and Doug and and Chris and Rick Ridgeway that circle of friends have been well clearly an influence on a lot of people but you know have been very dear kind of mentors and friends that I've looked up to you for a very long time and I've gotten to know for over the last 15 20 years and our kids get to go to Patagonia it's great we have yeah we love them deep family it feels like a lot of you know inspiration now meaning behind it you know I I don't want I only want to well as you can imagine you you throw down a lot for documentaries yeah and yours basically making a decision for the next few years however many years yeah we get faster though I found like I've this is my sixth film now this would be my seventh I feel like every film it basically cut the ratio in half but isn't this doesn't the story dictate that sure yeah you can also get better yeah well you have I mean there's something magical in the alchemy between the two of you you know Manhattan born and bred Minnesota Wyoming climber like it's a you know it's an unlikely pairing but there's something really cool on how you complement each other come from Chinese dagger mom's like our mom's probably had a lot in common huh and it's yeah like I'm half Chinese if I had like this whole nice Hungarian Brazilian like profess Oriole dad right who like very much wants me to do what I believe in whereas my mom still huh will be like it's not too late to go to bed school yeah yeah if your hand but I think my mom is not a tiger mom she's not Chinese but she still asked me if she thinks I'm gonna go I'm 52 years old I'm gonna go to medical school anyway I'm gonna get a real job I get that a lot it's a thing but it's definitely this deep we know where each other comes from when it comes to the really important things uh-huh and that's something that's very safe and warm and special for both of us I think but you have you have this Upper East Side you know rearing people she had people say this like it's like a poison right my parents for immigrants I was conceived in LA okay I was a professor at Columbia you know it's just it was a good place to raise kids the same way that Jimmy's parents had read that Minnesota was a good place to move to raise children so there were librarians at the University of Minnesota Mankato so it's like we it was um I think New York City has like bad rap where I would more say like it was this opportunity to go to an amazing girls school you know that shaped everything for me and let us eat Chinese food every weekend you know like it's like the city with everything but both my parents worked and we're also really dedicated to my brother and myself so it did I don't know and Jimmy you have academic parents but Tiger mom like how do you get you know I don't have time to explore the whole backstory we're gonna wrap this up we're highly attuned to excellence yeah Jimmy played till book 15 of Suzuki okay like he's a mean we still have this violin it is amazing like it's this big yeah thank you high school and then I picked up again Jimmy he was like oh like you mean swim champion of Minnesota huh there was no drive there and martial arts I basically competed and you know yeah you were Simon yeah it meets every weekend but they were throwing in martial arts competitions on top of oh wow and and playing the violin yeah and plan to do it all so he was ready for the mean streets of Manhattan huh yeah so what do they think of what you're doing now well they both passed I don't have I'm sorry that yeah but they you know they got to see I'm very happy they got to see you know they once I started publishing and I was in the magazines and stuff like that you know huh my mom had a stack of magazines this big with little markers sticking it out of them you know in the living room and I'd be like that's so embarrassing can you put that away but it's like she just put all of them she was yeah and your dad was pretty proud of our two kids yeah that was also like a big event in everyone's lives yeah it's cool all right well I got a release you guys to your lives but I thought a good way to kind of close it down would be to maybe impart a little bit of inspiration or wisdom to the aspiring filmmakers out there I mean you guys have achieved something extraordinary with the work that you have done and I have no doubt will continue to do for people out there that are interested in either narrative or documentary filmmaking and are struggling to figure out their voice or how to get going what can you say to those people I think that making phones is hard so if you're gonna make a film it should be about something that is incredibly meaningful to you you know and that's that's that's why you would use your voice so that that meaning you know find that meaning you know and it's okay to wait until you find it or like bumble along the way and find it later but it just it should be meaningful yeah I I mean I would echo that I mean it's really about finding it's a bigger question it's about finding your purpose and finding what gives you meaning and finding things that you're inspired and passionate about because like I said it's very hard to make films but when you find something that gives you that drive and purpose it's a lot you have to be relentless regardless you know it's a lot easier when you find something that has a lot of I find it cool all right I think that's a good way to end it you guys yeah I didn't go so much for having you here very sincere um thank you it's an extraordinary accomplishment free solo we should have been called solo by the way except for a pesky Star Wars film that happened to come out right Alex don't mean like that was the original title when we tried we were like who will fly in defiance and now now that Nat Geo is just bought by Disney like why couldn't we but um legal legal couldn't wouldn't let us do it and then ultimately I think that free solo solved a lot of problems for us like narrative problems think it was still on the loose of concept for everybody is free so say we just call the movie free solos and suddenly like all the problems went away yeah yeah you know I can't imagine imagine it being called anything else yeah yeah like I said extraordinary accomplishment it's it's funny it's riveting it's harrowing it's beautiful I saw Brett Morgan tweeted that you should be getting a cinematography Oscar for it which is a high praise from a master documentary filmmaker I think all that praise is well-earned it's super cool and exciting to see the response that the film is getting I think it's only going to continue to build and the beautiful thing about documentaries is they they they get that opportunity to build and find their audience and this has got to be it's a great time for you guys it's so cool so I'm excited for you I look forward to seeing you on the stage at the Oscars we'll see fingers crossed that's nice hey man I had Brian Fogle in here last year around this time so anything is possible and for those that are listening you haven't seen it yet please make a point of seeing it and you will you will not be disappointed cool is there is there is it everywhere nationwide right now and what about internationally it is opening in England December 14th and more more countries to follow hmm but it is at its widest this weekend it's in 400 theaters so people should go out and see it yeah and if people want to learn if this is brand-new to people and they want to learn more about it where's the best place for them to go online free solo film comm uh-huh and we're anything else coming up you guys doing talks or anything like that where people can find you and track you down and stop you our instagrams yeah I'm at Jimmy underscore chin and look for years that you didn't have any posts unless I had it wrong she changed she just joy oh you changed I everyone has convinced me to change it from like the name that used to make me happy to my own name so it's cha Vasarely jive s early well and I'll put links to all that stuff up and free solo film there yeah all right cool thanks you guys thank you [Music]

Channel: Rich Roll

Views: 395,452

Keywords: rich roll, vegan, health, fitness, athlete, podcast, inspiration, motivation, wellness, spirituality, self-help, mindset, jimmy chin, chai vasarhelyi, free solo, meru, climbing, adventure, nature, documentary, filmmaking, cinematography, mountaineering, north face, national geographic, alex honnold, el capitan, yosemite, conrad anker, oscars, sundance, relationships, creativity, risk, fear, death, tommy caldwell

Id: 84N98mAD_oM

Length: 92min 43sec (5563 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 02 2018