Lin-Manuel Miranda, Donald Glover, Issa Rae & Damien Chazelle: Epic Conversation on Creativity | THR

okay okay I'm John Favreau and this is conversations on creativity and I have a wonderful array of guests here we got Issa Rae we have Damien Chazelle am I saying that right we have lin-manuel Miranda and Donald Glover aka childish gambino is it yeah is that right here or is this a different for this venue you know we can talk about it like it's not a sacred no I know it's and you got the name from the wu-tang website Yale is a service still available yeah you can still do it lots of people tend to do it I didn't if I had known it was gonna be something for real I wouldn't have used it we came out with a good one no yeah mine was the coolest one at the party I was hungry Clemenza full disclosure I see your face every day when I wake my 15 year old son up because there's a on his door is a portrait of you that this is something that was probably that because the internet cover which is in my mixing is it my face you looking very handsome staring at me as I'm waking my son music I came up in improv community so I kind of know you more through there in the improv that and we're both kind of a little bit nerdy and yeah a comment I don't think of them as nerdy as I am everything that I think that's a common theme here there were all a little bit a little bit nerdy or geeky in a way but yet through the certainly through improv which is a definitely a subset of the nerdy or subset of the theatre comedy community I mean like nerdy is just you know stuff being liking stuff that takes work to like yes you know I think like like as you freestyle which I feel like to really I mean you did to like heavy I do long so I know but it's like first drivers it's like what is the I think there's a vulnerability that you have to get comfortable with yeah to be I guess nerdy's kind of overused but but a sense of your identity is something you're gonna put out there and you're fair game like you could show your own your insecurities and do things and fail and not afraid not only taking high percentage shots but putting it out there a little bit hard and I think that's kind of a common thread of from what I know about all your stories and the work that I've seen it seems like that's a big part of it and I think that's part of the bravery that comes with doing certainly do an improv there's you know if you're trying to look cool when you're doing that type of comedy to me there's like nothing I'm more in awe of improv me just improv period like that kind of like when I think of like I've found ways to remove myself from being too exposed as like art like I used to play drums but then like I used to do a lot of music but the performing stuff just gave me too much stage fright so it's like even when I was hidden behind a kit I couldn't deal with that so then I like hide behind the camera or hide behind a tight you know right pewter typewriter whatever so I think that's why I like performers in general I find kind of especially impressive to me and and then yeah the next level I think is performers who literally are performing without a net like improv performer and jazz which is a through-line in both both your films yeah yeah yeah true I mean maybe that's why I'm like obsessed with those people as well yeah these dreams that we keep running into each other maybe it means something yeah you could just write your own roles you know write something that's as interesting as you are what are you gonna do [Music] that can happen every time it's a muscle that's like not as I don't know necessaries are aware if it's a muscle that people don't have to use as much like editing is like a skill people use a lot like even in everyday life itself editing your own conversations were I mean yeah I mean like like on vine or like edit like just being your carry yourself like even like the way we live now is mostly like editing and knowing your brand so it's like very weird when people it's cool when people are able to do it because I know like a lot of jazz musicians and it's like it's cool when you can hear a mess-up and yeah I mean here it turned into something then they play with it yeah yeah it's fun really generous too I mean you're you're kind of making way for someone else to be great like the art of improv is to help someone else and to deliver for them it's like an alley oop in a sense I really love that a limit cuz you you kind of have to help the other person be better well on your show it's very it feels very naturalistic in conversational is there do you encourage improvisation or is it all written ahead of time to sound like it we definitely encourage improvisation but it's it's written for the most part written from like real conversations that I've had a lot of it is taken from you know just how I talk a lot of my friends talk you hungry hey tiger take a drink take this Maddy or not thank this nun it's too aggressive so I wanted that to feel like you're just authentic yeah and it does thank you Atlanta sort of also you're from there and you also wanted to give a naturalism well a heightened naturalism yeah there's like no we do improv a lot I mean I yeah like this we try to do this weird thing where it's like we we try and give two pieces of information at the same time because I feel like that's real life too like somebody's talking and then another conversation is happening and then you kind of have to choose like I've heard a lot of people use like the the term mumblecore which I take offense to now because it's late I'm not even like mumblecore being bad was just like because it's not it's just like I hate like labels like that where it's just like easy to put that in there but like yeah we have a lot of like a lot of stuff isn't I try and get them to do that what are you guys doing right now what you what brought me into writing was improvisation and when you write well you're kind of improvising alone like when it's going well that you're just playing two different characters talking to each other and I think probably mute and there's also a very musical aspect to both your films there's a there's a very a lot of rhythm and breaking rhythm and getting a laugh on breaking the rhythm same thing with Atlanta and clearly a lot of music in a musical and I wonder how that informs all of it and and even like the freestyle rapping there's a sense of a rhythm meter to always to comedy and to music but it seems to be something that you are all kind of aware of as you present your stories it's like a suspension of disbelief thing that I think habits but I actually want to ask you guys like with like making musicals like do you guys find it hard now because people suspension of disbelief is like different than it used to be yeah I used to hear your our feeling on lala land because because it it seems to me that your your you're making a return to the old style where it's like here's here's what they're doing and we're not cutting around someone's dance technique like this is them and they are doing like and you get to see it the way Stanley Donen would just like okay there said Charisse and there's uh there's Fred Astaire like look at him go and really just capturing it as opposed to trying to edit around or make it look cool like maybe it's a rational way that yeah it's really exciting talk about that because I would ask you also if like if on the stage it feels different for me like on the screen certainly there is this like big gap right now in terms of like that you have to kind of cross to do a musical at least like an earnest musical where you're not kind of immediately putting quotation marks on it it's part of the reason why we like decided to you know like a lot of stage shows begin this movie with a big ensemble number right off the bat mainly it's kind of like a warning sign people are not gonna be comfortable with it they'll leave right away that's right rest of us can have a good day hopefully but yes I was definitely very conscious of like how do you like I've been I've been in theaters with certain recent musicals you know even sometimes when they're based on kind of IP that people know where the first moment where someone starts to actually like break the dye Jesus and break in a song you could kind of feel people clenching up in the theater and and you know looking at the screen and it's just you know I imagine that happened less in the forties and fifties you know and it just kind of so I was really conscious of that I mean obviously like I guess on stage you at least have a still an active tradition there but do you feel like do you know lutely and it was interesting you like you have to convert the skeptics every like not so much convert the skeptics but it is certainly true that when you've got a camera and you know the the subject is this close yeah there's a bigger threshold you have to cross yeah break into song because people assume the cameras camera feeling you the truth yeah you have to mention disbelief already in a theater just by being there the technology thing and yes like cameras have gotten so better like things look really I feel like that's what's like yeah more we all we get the more real we get the more people are like well I wanted to fled my world a little bit and it's hard to get to get people it's usually like kind of like things get more binary anything anyway like I think everything now because then it's like a like a lot of like or dislike this and like there's no in-between but it's like with that it's like yeah you're either improving entirely and people are like oh yeah like I know that part of this is that he might mess up and or it's like I'm supposed to believe every bit of this yeah yeah and it's like hard I think just because it's changing faster I had an interesting thing with Hamilton which is you know we start with heightened language it starts with sort of this heightened hip-hop speech and there was a version of act one of Hamilton where I worked with a playwright and there were we'd have songs and then we would break into scenes and be like hey I'll see it that didn't like it like dialogue and we realized it didn't work with Hamilton because when you're we have an opening number that is this intense heightened speech to go back down to like so cool about that is and I was when I saw it with my daughter I was like this is like when I studied Shakespeare this was at that we look at Shakespeare now like it's classic and that's kind of old-fashioned II but at the time I felt very the iambic pentameter blank first all that was very current and I would say the equivalent of the poetry of your show and they were telling stories about characters that were hundreds of years old then right so there's a way to bring the audience in because that was meant for everybody whether you knew the stories or not you were gonna get entertained and so I thought it was a really good idiom for our time whether it's conscious or otherwise to make it it draws you in and it's a type of thing but it's always a beat going and you're just there's just an engine driving through this whole piece and then you're learning something and you're also feeling a tremendous amount and the energy in that room too is just just amazing just amazing and I went in there really being a little skeptical as you always are when somebody says how awesome something is it's almost it's almost a curse to have well that's although the big thing is like everybody there's an everything is lit as like this is the best thing it's a rush to say that the best thing I've ever seen and if you don't agree you're an idiot and everybody get on board and there's such a pressure to live up to that but at the same time you like I don't ever want that for my own work I don't no matter what it is I don't want you know everyone to be on board or everyone to exclaim that it's the best thing they've ever seen like that no I'd also like that's that's the goal I feel like the goal is to make people feel and to make people talk about it at the very least or have a discussion but there's such a hype culture right now it goes back to that like this like thing like you can only be like this is the worst so this is like because there's no room for you from that culture though from being from posting your own stuff right and then and then people reacting to it and then and then eventually now mainstream with with HBO with your show and that's raised now how you you were discovered yeah definitely but that highte element was kind of taken away because it was so small scale and it had time to just grow and build an audience and I guess I didn't have direct access to that you know to a certain extent cuz you turn your way okay I did I feel like I did earn my way it's like a phantom ring and getting chance how long have you been doing it before four or five years yeah like by the time I got I did the web series that really catapulted my career that was like my third attempt I came up in a totally different time what's that like what is it how do you set out to do it how does it build how do you know you're doing well just make help me understand what how do you know you're doing well you know you're doing well I guess when people are talking about it when people are sharing it but for me it was just a measure of this is something that's gaining traction like I I was mostly behind the scenes in in the other two series that I was doing and decided to you know tell this particular story that I related to and then I found other people feeling for it and relating to it as well and I'd liked that I'm like I like making people relate to one just like people of color and black people specifically I just think that especially in these times it's like that's a cool trait to be able to be like you know I'm from this specific background and you know III denta Phi what you're going through and I think that's such a powerful tool to bring people into your world and to bring a sense of understanding and so with this show like I wanted to just make black people relatable my sister told me about uses show like a while ago like she was so and she was like you got to check this out I think it was because like yeah like that she had never seen anything like that ever like really she was like I have that show wasn't that like she watched it like it was like on television like at the time like that other people watched it's finishing like you got to go catch up yeah it's like it's really cool but it's like oh yeah it's a very specific I think I'll look that like online stuff I think is we came from a - alright well yeah but I it was different at the time like because like I never we still hope it's weird being like I guess like kind of Millennials like you you're like I'm gonna there's so many blueprints and you're like aiming for that and by the time you get there you're like this doesn't exist your series got canceled yeah is this previous to writing for 30 rock and I was in this like a sketch group called Derek Comedy and we we I remember the day like we used to put him just online and you just like and you would have to like you know would you be on stage or we were doing average in the home we do stage stuff we had like a show at UCB and then like we'd shoot like on the street like actual like that but at the time it was so new like our friend like Dominic came I remember it's a meeting we had and he was like yeah we should put them up on YouTube because we were paying too much money to put them up and I can download them let's put them up on this thing that just came out called you - yeah and lazy Sunday it was so much so when we put up our first video people in the comments said this isn't real like people have had where's the kid somebody wrote this like they didn't understand but like that's how new it was and then you we kind of were like oh yeah maybe this will get us on television not knowing like that is television now nowadays I guess anything that you put up anywhere has a chance to catch on it's pretty much understood you just put it out there and then and then I guess if you build a following that's when you get the feedback to know you're doing well and then you just keep doing more of it there's also such a value of exactly what he described you know you know the sense of discovery of have you seen this yes you know that's that's so important so much is sold to us all the time it's like that thing of like have you have you have it but when you find something or your friend tells you about something you know that's that's so valuable and you've you know that sense of discovery is increasingly what seems it like that all of that relates to this value that we're placing now on authenticity whether it's in the material you're putting up there if it's authentic to your experience or the way it's being recommended and not marketed to you you have when people and the like thing it is binary but there is a sense of crowdsourcing whether something is a value and and the word gets out and you all see that as a as a positive how you get to the product is almost more important than the product nowadays 30% of people are like this is amazing there's gonna be 20% like well I have to agree with my friends a little bit like there's less of like we release a lot of our stuff on Sundays because I know bloggers are asleep and people don't want to tell it like people have to think about it for themselves which doesn't happen a lot like people know who look like if a cool person is like you're Jaden Smith is like this is cool a bunch of 13 year olds are gonna be like this is cool like I don't really have to think about it not to say that's a good or bad thing it's just like influence happens faster because of the internet so I feel like how people get to it like if people feel like my friend told me this in his underground people feel more invested in it like I felt like with their comedy like we would see like it was very there was a community that happened on YouTube but it was a lot of like college kids who would like follow us around became like you know like something from like the like at least from my vantage point and you know making movies it's like to me I like hear stuff like this and it makes me very nostalgic or romantic you know romanticize an era of movies that was actually before my time when you're kind of local to screen theater would run a movie for months and just kind of and it would start off you know something like you know say Eraserhead or something opens up and no one knows about it and then it just kind of plays in plays and it gains this following now theaters don't allow that and now what's replaced that is at least in terms of you know whether it's movies are TV whatever you call in terms are like filmed content what's replaced that is the Internet and and I guess TV to some extent because you can you can have a certain amount of life there but that idea of like allowing a piece of art to just kind of slowly find its way into the culture is really something that Hollywood at least is like incapable of doing in any kind of unless it has a ton of money and and then it's all about kind of you know you know trying to seed your way to that opening weekend and that's you know and that's all you've got and the movies that are out are out it amazes me though that storytelling has not changed that much it has informed but but what I would have done with independent films because you had video that would back up the independent and everyone small independent film would make 10 times as much as it costs people were placing bets on on those movies yeah and so when I started off it was more like I think more like the la-la-land model or certainly like the whiplash model but when I see your shows that feels very much like speaking to that type of audience and putting it out there and getting a chance for that to grow it shifted from the big screen to the small screen but in a way it feels like the storytelling offers a lot more opportunity because you're not just doing one if you get discovered you take the next step you're getting explore those characters longer slowly build the audience there's not that pressure on opening like you're talking about yeah that it's out of the theaters and I think that's where the internet sort of a bonus you think of Breaking Bad where that was not a show that opened strong but then yeah it was on Netflix and when Netflix was a new thing that the streaming of Netflix was a new thing and people caught up with it and then by the time the third season rolls I don't like all right what's gonna and you know whereas previously we all would have taped it on VHS if you're lucky but but the the ability to amass and stay with the story and go back and rewind that I want to go see as opposed to like it was on TV and now it's gone yeah my self wanting to be immersed in a world now like even even where we're films are concerned like I used to be a huge movie buff you know today I used to go to movies you know every other week and now I found myself wanting to be in twelve hours of a television show and if I see like a movie on Netflix for example if I see a new one I'm like an hour and a half nobody has time for an hour and a half to watch I want to be in a world and I want to feel like my my time means something at the end of the day and I felt like there's so much there's a communal experience to just being able to live with certain characters and storylines and feel like I'm a part of this world it's odd to me now and it's kinda makes me sad because movies are being pushed out you know so fast and it is just about like I gotta say though people said it about theater but then a show like Hamilton comes out and all of a sudden boom or lollol and honestly it's like could not be more classic in its construction and its attention to form and what you start to realize is I think there's just a lot of competition and the stuff that I would have watched you you switch off of cuz there's so much great stuff out there because it's it's democratized content creation I'd like to think that yeah the you know the underline and democratizing like that that that there's there's something good to be said I feel like at least from the vent again from the bench play movies in Hollywood we do a lot of doom and gloom about you know the movies are dying and TVs to blame or the Internet's to blame or whatever there's a lot of like woe is me kind of think pieces and stuff like that as opposed to just actually welcoming that there's good content that's raising the bar and that okay maybe that just means we have to do this much more we have to try this harder to get people to give people a reason to get out of their houses I mean that's not it that led to some interesting things in the 50s when TV first came around it's always kind of those kind of shifts have always I think ultimately push things forward and at least most of the time so I'd like to think of it as like a welcome challenge as opposed to you know a death knell you know and they're just different type of stories you could tell it's sad that you can't tell certain types of stories on the big screen there's this whole level of budget that's gone and a lot of right the mid-size ones the ones that would win the Oscars the ones that would you know but but then it like you're saying it gravitates to you know the small screen where you have time to actually because you can only write so many versions of a rock and roll song because it's got to be that same length in that same structure but if you have all that time to tell a story and get to know those characters all of a sudden it becomes Nicholas Nickleby you could do you know you could really go deep and here's another interesting thing because I'm I think I relate to what you're saying in that if I'm watching the movie even at home same screen or a part of a series like a limited series something like your shows if I'm watching a movie and I pause it I'm like oh man there's still an hour left like I feel like this is long when I pause a television show I'm sad when it's almost over and I don't understand why what that difference is and why my brain clicks that way I think about that all the time it's like what we what we expect from things changes all the time like what you expect from a movie is different from what you expect from a movie like from a TV show and like like I was saying it's like when we were first starting we were not expecting anything from YouTube like I was like I'm not expecting people to really I think like people didn't even know it was a sketch it was big so like but now there's an entire like like anybody I know who has like a nine-year-old or tenant they're like their entire lives like one of the Atlanta writers is like 18 and he's like I don't really watch TV he's like oh my all my heroes and everything is on YouTube so I'm like and that skit me so like so you kind of have to understand like how and why your audience is going to where they're going and like like Issa was saying like is true was like when we made it Landon like I knew I was like we started making Twitter's like years before like for the stuff we were planning on tying in so when people go to those Twitter's they're like oh like I'm in the world leads for different characters I don't know no not like there's like true hip-hop facts which is like a fake like hip-hop that's on the show but we started that like years ago and there's now like years of stuff if a person goes there they're like oh I'm in the world's like going to like Harry Potter land where you're like oh now when I go to Atlanta I feel like I'm there I'm like in the world longer like which is all anybody's good to like that's like does my brother yeah he's good you can make the feet that the Twitter feet as good as a real Twitter feed and the music is good then who's to say where the line is anymore that's the fun part people people not knowing really where it ends so people want to stay there longer you're basically trying to stop people from saying fake and also now also by the way since all of you hit this thing where you all did something clearly I'm assuming that you were passionate about that caught fire and then propelled you and then now you've all become your personas you've become because of Fame and recognition there's a sense that you're playing a character in a way in all the publicity that's done in the way people perceive you that's a very interesting moment in a career that you've all kind of gone through in a similar timeframe you've probably more so with whiplash but all of a sudden when you go from I'm putting this out there on my own I hope somebody likes it too we all like it and we like it a lot and we're gonna tell our friends and now all of a sudden everybody's staring at you what was that experience like for all of you because it's not something that a lot of people understand or go through but it's a pretty it's a pretty common experience among people who've been through it I'm wondering what that was like when when all the good things started happening for the first time I mean I think there's a an initial rush like wow people who really like this is crazy this is great and then oh [ __ ] I have to live up to this you feel like the kind of light is on you and you know when you get your first piece of criticism or people start to hate your stuff on - like that's that's that's that's kind of a big deal but for me it's it's it's actually only helped me creatively because it makes me uncomfortable and that's kind of where I thrive and that's kind of why I live in the first place and so you know I just use it so create so the way affect you creatively is it is it helped generate more other stories for me and it's just like like I I don't have a choice but to live in this in this world in this estate currently and so it's just like you have to use it and make make do but it's it's extremely uncomfortable and I made the mistake of naming my character in the show because I dream just happen it was like I'm running this show it's untitled and I'll just call the character myself like that's just it not change it eventually and I just never changed it and so do you find that people assume that it's exactly your life I had been through it with swingers to where it's like I thought I was making a fictitious character did change the name but it's my neighborhood yeah everybody film lollol in and everybody's like oh you made a documentary yeah and so people just assume you're that person yeah for sure we had a big storyline my character cheats I don't know if I can say that but spoiler oops but not like my my like a lot of the comments like I put a picture of my grandma people I can [ __ ] do you do fine like whether it's comments or reviews whatever like how much do you read I guess I always like find myself asking people that like that question cuz I I feel like I always lose reviews and there's social media that's the thing is to like you know the idealized fire to us they not read anything but I can never I never like I never live up to that ideal that I set for myself which is why it's not reading anything you want to do like all the internet was to engage with it's just I don't engage but I do use it as data like it's just well you gotta know that you do that without the one without the other yeah I engage through the art like I mean the world how do you aggregate data if you not reading the stuff Oh about have it impact you psychologically I just feel I don't know let I feel like just me personally growing up with the internet like I just know what trolls are I know what perspective certain people are do why they're doing it like you can for some reason I can be like this person is the tight like and I and I also do data I'm just like okay this person said this I check what oh you like this kind of stuff so of course you would feel this way about this and like and next time I won't leave this demographic of people out or I'm like that's fine that you feel that way you'll you'll like it more at the end of the season or like you kind of realize how people are but also late online is open up such a like it's caused me to understand like Fame doesn't mean security or it doesn't mean rich right like Fame is going through a weird thing where like it's a no weird time like what what people are and like well the characters you show going through that as well with that the hip-hop doesn't fame and hip-hop doesn't necessarily mean especially when you're selling drugs to it's like where does that when you're doing stellata rappers cuz like basically we all those stuff that came up from becoming famous I was like maybe I can make like a hip-hop Curb Your Enthusiasm with all the awkward moments that happened when people like I know you and and you're like are you gonna rob me or like are you you know everything about me but I don't know anything about you and like that's I think the scariest part about it but like as far as like what come out favorite general I mean about I'll know you and you don't know yeah like when in your art and people assuming what happens on on like people definitely think Atlanta's like my life and it's not but but it that's the fearful part where you're like okay like there's a separation but also like we were talking like mixing in the real world gives them like that's what a lot of the reason a lot of people watch it like they like it that it's part of their real world so you have to kind of like tow that line you don't know how much you're actually because I know like I remember a fight from Tribe Called Quest like how does everybody know I'm diabetic I was like what's one year lyrics you know you put it in your monkey diet and I think honestly there's a little bit of that because everything like a poker players are all tells everything you're doing every subject matter you choose yeah and it doesn't it does get strange there is a moment where someone will call something back to me like yeah do you know that like where you know my dad is the worst Twitter addict than me and people will be like how was the garage sale my dad tweeted his address and invited everyone to a group and so I get a lot of money issues that are only gonna get more and more as a parent when you're dealing with social you you you know they're telling you well teach your kids to not do this and watch out for that and there's so much more sophisticated all of this stuff because they're just right the kids teach you I mean I don't it just feels like it's it does feel like it's replacing something and I feel like an old person saying this but it just feels like there's an element that I don't know that's being missed out on like there's a because there's a very motive communication at this day but it just feels like in kind of what you were saying in terms of toeing the line and in figuring out what's real or not I don't know that that's gonna be as easily grasped unless it's it's it's put in a in a bubble of this is specifically art I think as a culture we just have to decide what's sacred to us we can't not yeah I know we can't even decide that's what I'm saying they're like but we're learning that's what's so weird about it it's like it's having the patience to like understand that yeah we're learning all of this together like it's not that like the Internet and like the social media isn't that old and the fact that like people are just like if there was a girl who was like really cool and high in my high school like that was the only place now like when she's 18 she's like yeah like these basketball players know me and I'm gonna go ain't like the world is so big in what the information you put out means so much more and like and became become valuable later like that's also what it's like something you do for fun like now in ten years like people are like mining that and using that and selling that like it's in it's a value system like you have to decide like I think kids are better now at understanding like this is valuable to me so I shouldn't put this up or like something like you know [ __ ] it like have a friend I have a friend who's an elementary school teacher and he he was talking about how he was you know his kids like all the songs they like we're all about it's just between us like it was that one that's a generational thing yeah like the most intimate thing we can have is something we didn't tweet together like it's something we didn't tell anyone or put online and that's like the hook of like a lot of R&B songs like that becomes suddenly the most intimate they just gonna say like I just did a concert and there were no phones allowed and it's in it you just see it differently like people enjoy it differently because now they have to tell people the theaters were the last bastion right and it's you can tell when someone's fidgeting and dying to check their phone you don't I mean like that's but it's you're also putting especially in theater where it really is frowned upon when someone's shines a spotlight on their own face to turn protective I can see it I can see the identity of the person so much of your show is I got in they want to take selfies they want to take pictures and you've been pretty good about when the time is right you'll stand there take pictures go out with the crowd yeah I owe you that absolutely I mean that is you know I mean I work in the art form where you're in the room with the people who are performing and that's that's there's such a you know the that's something you can't replace you know I think especially talking about online stuff I think we could curate our reality so much we block that friend on Facebook who is talking about politics constantly we're putting up video is that you're not ready to see at 9:00 in the morning and then so you curate your reality but in the theater like you're all watching the same thing and how is the how did going from obscurity to being just drilled down by the limelight how how did that affect things I would assume with the crowd in the room it probably is it's fear it happened in stage first of all you know I YouTube weirdly is is tied into Hamilton - because I performed at the White House and that was like one of the first like arts events they held at the White House before the show 2009 yeah I was I had just left in the heights I was 2009 and I performed the opening song I'd only written the opening song and so that went online and then this is where like good luck comes into it because it didn't look like a c-span event HBO filmed the night because they were filming their poets who would perform that night so the footage of it looks like a movie like and that that's no one's fault except the fact that you know Stan Lathan produced the evening like they just really did it well and film the hell out of it and so I had a like I it took me six years to write the show but I had a bunch of social studies teachers who were ready you know they're like I've been showing this one clip to my kids for six years like here's a whole show coming so I knew we'd be okay with educators I knew we'd get school groups it's the rest of it that was really overwhelming and and doing the show is what kept me sane you know it's it's you know we're more like chefs when were actors on stage we've got to make it from scratch that night the people who were there last week they may have read the review but like you've got to cook it from scratch for them that night and so so the night I went that was a particularly good night you said that was a really great crowd you went the night Bernie Sanders was Bernie Sanders was there I was like why can't it was activist Bernie Sanders in these proof yeah the place went crazy yes it was it was a very exciting and it felt like opening night again so we just and it was also last night of Jonathan that wasn't me oh it was just I could I was buzzing like I was so happy I could share it with with my daughter too and then of course listening to it over because now it's now it's and also here's the other thing it's never there with taking pictures of everything and all of the way where everything's documented and curated and edited the memory transfers to that piece but when you do we have a meal cooked by a great chef or you go to a live performance that only exists here and it takes on in the way it's becomes indelible yeah and so I'm glad I can't look back at a copy of that whereas when you look at something that's filmed you could always go back to that movie there's advantages to that because you could bring people on that roller coaster and that wasn't that was the other big shift that happened once the cast album came out because you know we ran six months off-broadway and everyone just is experiencing the thing in real time and they don't know what they're coming in for yeah and then my show some through when you get the cast album you get the whole show it's it's the entire plot of everybody you and everyone knew was cheering for songs we had this we shifted from I'm experiencing this to this is Rocky Horror I know all the words I'm gonna sing along in the front row so I watched that shift happen as well but the certainly knowing that in this audience this is your only chance to maybe see it that also kept it fresh for us and it also inspired us to you know I always am painfully aware like this is someone's first show this is someone's last show I don't care how tired I am like they they made miracles happen to be in that audience cells right you have to give them that show and so that's that's also what keeps you grounded because it's hard it's hard to go three hours without a break now going no going into the net and the next thing right because I watched the PBS documentary which fortuitously followed you through the whole period you're talking about and it's like I know this is my this is this is my high point and now you're going into other media and you're going into doing Moana and also Mary opens and working on Star Wars and all you know so that's kind of like for our era that's like you're being welcomed into the into as you welcomed into the to the big boys table so what's it like now facing the next chapter and you kind of just went through it now with la-la-land which is to me astounding that you could come off of the success of the first and you get back in there the next step back why was I was lucky just in the sense that I I wrote it all in before whiplash and I I just the best thing that happened to me it was lala land everyone saying no to lala land it was like you know years we're trying to get law and made in Hollywood everyone's saying you know not just no but like please go away we do not want to hear about this musical we don't hear about original musicals we don't want to do anything like this and and like and so kind of doing whiplash out of necessity though that whiplash was a much smaller movie that I kind of was able to actually put the money together for but the whole time I was making whiplash I was hoping that you know hopefully if this doesn't entirely suck it will give me some kind of calling card to make lala land so that was strategy that was the in a weird way the saving grace I didn't have to go through that like goddammit what's next like okay yeah yeah because it was just sitting there it's like Oh any mileage I have now I'm gonna spend it all on and I think what's I think it's kind of nice that you were able to shift gears into a different to not have the responsibility of writing something from scratch and from where's that inspiration to come from you're getting the hook into other peak collaborate with other people and theater is obviously very collaborative as well absolutely so what's this bin like this next chapter coming off of that crazy I think it's the same as before you know I think we all i certainly the way i think about what i do is you you toe this line between the things that are in you that you're burning to make the idea that won't leave you alone in the shower or when you're walking your dog and the opportunity to come along that are so i would do anything to be a part of this and kick myself if I didn't do it if I said no to it and we're all we all struggle with that balance I'm sure you've all had that version of like I could double down and write my thing or like I got an offer to work with this superhero of mine who I looked up to growing up and and making sort of a million decisions like that [Music] [Music] Robert Rodriguez was like a my big hero when I was in high school that was my - I read rebel without a clue you know he'd you know maxed out his credit cards and gave blood to make money to me that's not what I gave to the director of swingers when we started and and what he says about the thing after your calling card is don't let anyone like how to avoid the sophomore slump is like don't let anyone know what your sophomore project is like I'll go make this piece of four rooms I'll go make this Cinemax movie and make so much like random stuff that no one can be like oh is this your next is this your next thing and so I mean I that's the advice I took after Heights I was gonna say like but in terms of like other than right those like things that want it becoming Hamilton you must have had to kind of bury yourself for a while just to create Hamilton like did you feel like the outside world going what the hell like you had a success within the heights what are you doing like wins the net oh yeah and it's funny because you are dancer you also do you know you and everyone goes through this whether you're even in the arts or not to you what are the things you do to support your family and sort of keep going while you're doubling down on whatever Thunder crashing I was on a TV show that was made the record of the lowest rated debut in the history but I took that job because they told me they were gonna kill me off at the end of the first season and it shot in Philly not LA so I could stay home so I could just take the train I was number five on the call sheet I had it was a lot of great theater actors and it was awful mr. Schad is he Pasquale and like Esper and so I you know it was the show it was called you no harm it was no toys cuz I had one of the worst advertising it was like a Jekyll and Hyde like doctor plot and it was the guy who had his hands like this I used to call him dr. face ham but you know I to me I that was my Hamilton residency I was I was I was making living I was only working two days a week and I was going to the historical Philly where I would go do research on Hamilton I wrote I wrote satisfied from that I wrote that in my trailer working under no harm so everyone you balance those those things you guys feel like in between those when you're like okay what am I gonna do next or whatever like do you guys ever feel the pressure because you do have a like a connection with your audience so much to just give them more the same thing I feel like you hear them more you see what they're saying more in a very new way but I if anything I want to give them something different you know I feel like I don't want to be placing the box that you you want like cuz then just delivery man just like supply-demand think there's nothing fulfilling about that and your audience grows up I wanted that happen with my first show within the heights I had you know I had kids who discovered that show and that was their show and they did the rush tickets every week and then I walk you know we ran for almost three years in the Haight and I watched them fall in love with the next show and I was like oh you're not the groupies of my show or you're you're going to see but now you also have and I've experienced this a little bit with somewhat with iron man or with comic book fans more so jungle book but now getting ready do Lion King and you with Mary Poppins you with playing Lando now it's not just your own work that you're being judged against that stuff those stories those movies belong to people and they grew up with it yeah and now you're gonna be adding another experience to that thing that's part of them and with social media too it's like you said you cover up you're out wherever is coming from with it certainly with this you're tapping into something how does that feel for the two of you facing that on one hand you know what's the positive and also what were one of the things I've already had a really interesting sort of cautionary tale experience in terms of playing with a classic I'm like one of my first gigs after the success of heights was writing language transics for a new revival of West Side Story and it was with Arthur Laura Arthur Laurents and song time were both behind it I would never have touched something if it weren't the actual original creatives surviving creatives behind it and so you know that was the pitch and I had a blast writing it and you know I kind of assumed the audience would go with it it was like well everyone knows West Side Story so if Maria breaks into Spanish for I feel pretty like we all know the lyrics do I feel pretty like they'll go with us they did not go with them this is what happen oh you know if there was a huge backlash from the audience of me like I want to see what's that story and it was Enterprise amigas in my last show in the heights has tons of Spanish in it and we go back and forth of ginseng's but it's in the original DNA of how it was trying to instructed as opposed to this beloved 50 year old show and so you know we I I sort of lost with dismay as the producers and the director kind of peeled back everything I wrote so it was just a revival of what's that story and a preview process though which is sort of it yeah there was one where they tried to do super titles and that really didn't work it doesn't work you know you're trained to see it in opera but it doesn't really work in the right writer and so you know I kind of carry that with me of like you know if you're working on something you know I'm I'm involved with the live-action Little Mermaid yeah I don't know in what capacity yet I just kind of have my hat on as the like number one fan of that movie I'm like I feel like I'm just the head of the don't [ __ ] it up committee that's what I'm there to do and if that requires you know saying this this whole subplot doesn't fly in life sometimes just having a meter for no I love it and this is what I'd want to see which i think is kind of a unifying thing to all of your work is like clearly you're making stuff you wanna people know when it's something that's been out already people know what they want from it I got I was asked to do a reading for like Princess Bride and then like I was like oh yeah and I was you know when a film it we were just doing a lot for live stage reading and I was doing and I'm the the inconceivable guy but I didn't say in conceive that I didn't use the list and people like what the [ __ ] are you doing Leslie we're like so upset like everybody and people are like no you're gonna [ __ ] say conceivable like you're in a tribute band yes yes it's not bad being a queen tribute band because their songs are dope like you do it the way that makes sense to them I feel like it's like how do you feel about Lando I mean how did that happen and how do you how do you tool up for that I really felt like the role like it wasn't the first it was the first action figure I ever had it was like I remember like my dad giving it to me I had a like a Darth Vader one and this one I kind of lost the Cape and and like I got rid of it and I think my mom was like good because he's gonna focus I or something so I Lando really well and I I just I don't know it's always part of it was always part of growing up just seeing him because like you know he's like the only black guy in space so that was like wow like this is cool and he was like the cool one looking at it now as far as as far as the movie is concerned like I just realized you know you you want to he still has to be cool you know like the way of and cool is an interesting thing it changes so much like due to like I was actually watching we were talking about black mirror like I was watching black mirror and there's a episode where they go through time and like in the 50s there's a nerd and then the 16 season the nerd and but by the time he gets the 2000s like oh he's just a hipster but he's like he's not a nerd anymore like and actually the the cool guy from this time is only like cool changes depending on the perspective so I was like this just needs to speak to to like the characters and also like it's fun because like it's beforehand so he's still figuring it out a little sure I think it's fun hey great filmmakers great great cast yeahthere's I'm so excited about those and they were good they did 21 Jump Street right so they they they did that same twist on cool now isn't what cool was right which I wasn't expecting it was like what and I felt like it was opening me up to a new world which i think is what I really appreciate about all of your work it's like it feels oddly relatable and personal even though it could not be more different from the experience I had coming up whether it's the world you created the world you reflect and and honestly even with yours like it set really a story's like 20 years after I had explored similar subject matter with swingers in the same area and then to see what the this generation how they're living through the dream and with a sense of nostalgia for what Hollywood is and breaking in and kind of those those first baby steps yeah I mean every swingers being like I mean I it's obviously like it's like when you're looking at like the pantheon of ballet movies which you you know we certainly I wanted to do you know before I was going to shoot here you know try to figure out the different ways you can show the city it's a very it's weirdly like obviously obviously it's a city that where more movies have been shot here than any other city in the world but it's also city that you know given that statistic is very seldom actually seen in movies you know and so there's those few likes when you actually call it you know to make it about it you surprised how little you know about it having seen it film some well you'd be surprised that we had to have like conversations about you know having to convince people that we actually wanted to shoot in LA they tried to shoot like this is it South LA yes now Central there's just specific parts of some art park there's Inglewood like all places I know and I grew up in an area called Windsor Hills Baldwin Bowen Hills and they call it the black Beverly Hills and it's very specific to you know people I knew and people just didn't understand like that I wanted to be there it was like well their big house is over here there's big houses like no it was like no like there's still an essence there that I want and I want to see like if even if there's an extra like I I wanted to feel like they're part of the community I want to feel like the neighborhood is there be and there's something just about being present and acknowledging that neighborhood that I feel like it's just I think people demand authenticity now because they get it so much they want it to be true you want to feel like you're just if you want that that comment this is true you know you want that at the end of the day it's very turn right well everybody can feel the moment to like it's like that everybody's looking for moments and it's like if you're like even in Atlanta I'm like if we don't shoot this we're gonna miss the dude who's like heroin doubt holding an orange right like and that is important because it's it's something I couldn't think of but I always know is there like or something that's a feeling that like you can't just make up like that's the other thing too like everything's possible to make up now but stuff that feels real where you're like I can't you know I can't make that up like you can't pay for that anymore like you can't find that it just feels better listen thank you thank you all for coming here this is such a great group of people to talk to and I'm so glad to be able to share these stories with everybody out there who's especially people who are struggling and kind of where you all were a couple years ago it's it's a fascinating and keep up all the good work thanks so much thank you hi hi what's going on I'm Alicia Keys I'm suraj EP ensign Jon Favreau Jeff Bridges here and I Damon Naomi Harris thanks for watching thank you so much for watching thank you for watching for more videos be sure to subscribe I guess subscribe I'll bide for more videos if you want more that stuff I don't work for The Hollywood Reporter they paid me to say that though you

Channel: The Hollywood Reporter

Views: 1,846,946

Rating: 4.9635096 out of 5

Keywords: thr, the hollywood reporter, hollywood reporter, entertainment, hollywood, lin-manuel miranda, lin manuel miranda, donald glover, issa rae, damien chazelle, jon farveau, creative roundtable, the hollywood reporter roundtable, roundtable, roundtable 2016, full roundtable, full, entire, HQ, director, actor, actress, conversation, interview, thr roundtable, film, thr roundtables, movie, close up, 2017 roundtables, 2016

Id: gU1sTWIbw_Y

Length: 56min 28sec (3388 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 19 2016

Reddit Comments

[u/respekmynameplz]

At 7:30, 4 people ask a question to other people back-to-back.

[u/Sporck]

Hey what's the Twitter account about hip hop facts Glover is mentioning? This is just such a cool idea