Life's Work: Oral History – Seth Hancock, Claiborne Farm

[Music] hello this is Chris McGrath tdn welcoming you to the start of an exciting new project partnering with Keeneland and the University of Kentucky's Nunn Center for oral history we're so lucky that some of the most accomplished figures in our industry have agreed to share some memories of their lives and careers the great horses and horsemen they've encountered and we're especially fortunate for the first person to give us his time is mr. Seth Hancock of Claiborne perhaps the most iconic bluegrass farm of all well I was born into it and I was around there all my life I mean I never really knew anything else so people come there and they they tell you that the place is dripping with history and it's moving for other folks probably more so than me because it's just it's always been there I mean my grandfather started clavering farm in Kentucky back in 1910 and my father built it into what it was and hopefully still is and I've just been somebody's maintained it or tried to maintain it you know I I don't feel that I've had much to do with it other than just keeping it going not sure if I remember him or if I just remember him because I've heard so many stories about him but I was six years old when he passed courts Arthur was 12 and he would he would have memories of him that I wouldn't but I've seen so many pictures and heard so many stories I feel like I have memories but I'm not sure if they're real or not he was a big man he was about 6 6 which back then was about probably like being 610 or something now and I guess he had a pretty girl voice and was you know he was a real man and there was a brood mare for him and me mr. Harold Johnson he used to tell me stories about riding through the fields and they come up on a phone the phone would be laying down and mr. Johnson would say also getting him up for ian's in my grandfather would say you know don't get him up he's he's growing you know and it just kind of always impressed on me the fact that when shed started people were running everything in sheds all the time and I'm like oh no offense coworker not my grandfather and said they needed to lay down and rest to grow so you know that's just something that I remember that story about him Seth's father Poole became one of the most influential breeders in the history of the thoroughbred the first job I ever had was opening gates for him when he'd ride through the mares and foals the late afternoon that got to cents a gate that was you know hell I could get 10 or 12 gates maybe hour and a quarter as five packages of baseball cards as big deal and but if it was never you know son look at this look at that look at this look at that I guess when I graduated from college and I went in the army I got out in December of 71 and he had a program set up for me kind of a two-year apprenticeship and then course September the next year he passed so that kind of went out the window and I was into the apprenticeship I done stage 1 which was work with a broodmare Foreman for the breeding season at 72 and stage 2 was go with the yearling manager and break all the yearlings and get everybody weaned and saddled and then the third year was gonna be riding with the farm manager but I was we were breaking the yearlings and you know my father passed so that that program went out the window I was ready to learn and I hope that I was learning and he got I put him on an airplane over here in July to go to Saratoga and he went up there and then he went grouse hunting and he got sick over there and he went straight to Nashville and he was operated on the middle August and he was diagnosed with cancer and he died 14th ASF temper and you know how it's like i guess if you you got somebody in a boat and you throw them overboard they don't want to die so they learn how to swim and you know I mean I I knew all the guys on the farm Hill I'd been around there ever since I was a kid and I had a good rapport with all of them cuz I'd work with the side of many of them for a long time it's easy to go to them and say hey it's this is what we got to do we're gonna sell these horses were breaking they're going to New York we're gonna sell them all the race horses are gonna be sold we're gonna sell yearlings next summer and you know you just you just go and one thing about being young I guess in a lot of ways it's a disadvantage but in other ways it's an advantage because you don't ever think you're gonna fail you know I think if you're 40 and you make a decision you stop and consider what happens if it's doesn't work when you're 23 and you make a decision there's no thought that it ain't gonna work because you just figure hey I'm all that proof Seth's older brother Arthur has meanwhile brought his own immense distinction to the family's story after deciding to establish a farm of his own in fact he became the first hancock to raise a Kentucky Derby winner and has since added another to both Arthur and Seth are gratified by the way things have worked out for each other but Arthur had his troubles as a young man and Seth witnessing his brothers clashes with the older generation resolved to keep on the straight and narrow I saw the mistakes that he made and worried God him as well I'm not going there and you know when when Daddy passed arthur was running and gunning and you thought well this will be a sobering effect on him and he you know he'll he'll realize you can't he can't do that anymore and truth be told old he really didn't realize it by his own admission and we were going long but he had his areas responsibilities I had mine and I guess we were doing all right but we also had an advisory committee that we had to run big decisions by which followed me I mean I was 23 hell I certainly didn't have all the answers but he was 29 I guess he figured he did have all the answers and he'll want to do it and he made a couple of decisions that he didn't run by them and they kind of called him all the money in short order said I've had enough I'm done and he left and that was that the farms young new president made an immediate mark in the record syndication of the champion two-year-old a horse by the name of Secretariat the reason he came to the farm was because of a long-standing relationship between my father and mr. Chinnery and then when he got sick between my father and mr. weedy mr. Perry called me when mr. Chenery died and he said Seth Christian redyed and I said I'm sorry to hear about that and he said you're gonna have to come over here for the funeral and I said what do you mean I didn't even know the man mr. Perry and he said no you need to come over here because the state is probably gonna have to sell some assets to pay for estate taxes and one of them's lovably Secretariat champion two-year-olds you got a lot of value and then maybe something they're gonna do then I said well if you think I need to come over that's what I'll do so I flew over there he said now look you be sure and tell penny that you're ready willing able to syndicate the horse if you know if that's something that they think they might want to do about a month later or right six weeks later she called and said I'm coming to Lexington with my lawyer and we want to get together with you and Gail moaning and talk about syndicating Secretariat and I said that's great we went to the coach house over there and we talked about it and I had a cocktail napkin there and a pen and I wrote down the details on the top cocktail napkin number of shares price per share how many they were keeping you know just the structure of the thing and now I mean I've been office being coached up I had been coached up by mr. Perry Arthur and I syndicated Bowl reasoning together the fall before so that was kind of a joint effort but this was you know this was first one on my own there again I if I if he had rolled craps and he had had a bad three-year-old year it probably would have been the end for me but I never thought that I just figured what he's going to go on to whatever and but the timing of it with mr. chenery's death and I'd made that necessary for their estate and I suppose if I hadn't done it they did going on to the next person but but I had first swing at it and you know back then there really were only three farms to speak of I mean there was gains weight over spendthrift in those Claver hell now there's God knows how many I mean the competition for these stallions now it's a war back then and back then people were loyal I mean penny gave us the first shot at it because of the great relationship that my father had had with her dad and with her I had no idea that he could possibly win the Triple Crown I mean at that time it hadn't been won in 25 years and people were saying it would never be won again that's just like 34 years ago and they so it'll never be won again I said I'm gonna tell you what be one again and it'll happen multiple times and a seven or eight year period because I lived through that Secretariat did it and then Seattle flu did it and then the firm did it all in 70s and we've had one in fifteen and one in eighteen and Lorelai will have another one in 21 or 22 you know I was just in the right place at the right time he had already done enough when he won the Belmont I mean you know he set a track record in the Derby and he after they retimed it set a track record at Pimlico so the cake was pretty well baked but lord knows that was mighty sweet icing on top of it and to be sitting there watching it it's almost like this can't be I mean you know just to keep widening and widening it was jaw-dropping it truly was and then you look at the tell the time and see how fast he ran it's like yeah I can't believe what I just saw [Applause] [Music] in his will all Hancock had specified that the new regime should take a more commercial approach and offer us headings at auction I mean you might go five or six years and and lose money every year and then 49er comes along or a pulpit comes along or a swale comes along but if you go too long before that one comes along you might be out of business before he gets there and he knew selling yearlings was the right thing to do for us to put us on the firm financial foundation and I mean he wouldn't he couldn't have known whether we were going to sink or swim and sell and yearlings would give you more time to learn how to swim got lucky right off the bat and secretary came in there and you know and then we were able to kind of keep adding some stains and do okay and then course dancing mr. prospector came there and Haiti and they carried this for a long long time and at the time they were kind of getting old and here comes pulpit and at the time he was getting old here comes war front and now he's getting old and hopefully write a happy or somebody else is gonna pick up the ball and run with it it's a process I I mean and nobody ever told me but you know when my father passed I went back and looked at all the mares that he had made it and we had some big mares like face the facts and moccasin and some of those and he'd been breeding them to roundtable who was about fifteen two and a half maybe fifteen three not a big horse so in my mind at the time I thought well I see what he's doing here he's trying to balance the athlete he don't want one too big so he's not gonna bring Marx into a big stage and so that's what he's trying to do well we got unbridled he was a great big horse and I thought well I'll burn him to some small mares didn't work not at all Claiborne has long achieved unusual international influence but while bull Hancock imported several turf stallions from overseas his son stresses how dirt blood has also invigorated the European gene pool to me that that's a lay down if you've got a good dirt horse and he's got speed he'll he'll get offspring that'll run on anything now if you've got a turf horse and he doesn't have any speed don't think you're gonna get a good dirt or spam because you're not in my opinion and you know I know turf Racing's become a popular thing in this country but I hope to hell that the people that are gonna try to keep the breed going don't forget about good old-fashioned dirt because that's where that's the proving ground in my opinion one of the farms most potent international stallions was Danzig though his arrival was largely thanks to his trainer woody Stevens if it weren't for woody Stevens I went up there and he called me he was gonna run a Philly for the farm he said got her in she didn't birdie and I said well you know look forward to seeing how she does he said probably need to come up here and I said hey I don't know what it's a long trip and he said no he said I've got della rose in her for Henrik they split the race he's going to be here you need to come up here and talk to him about Danzig and I said all right I'll do it so Henry can woody and I met in the trustees room course Henry always had a lot of stories you know he wanted to tell and he told his stories and he said you know how great Danzig was and he was thinking he might stand him in New York and I saw would be a tough sell in Kentucky because he never once taken he only ran three times and he boarded said said you know you better take this horse he's the fastest horse I've ever trained and so Henry kept talking I said Henry I can't come close to that kind of money and would he looked at me and said what can you do Seth and I said I probably can sell 40 shares for I think it was 80,000 share and Henry stuck out his hand he said you got a deal and that was that greatest trainer that ever lived in my opinion he taught me more than anybody I mean he and he took time to teach me I mean you know my father had the racehorses with him when he passed of course we're gonna sell them all but I was around and whether it was our horse or another horse woody said let me show you this you know attending her puffy ankle or a buck shin or whatever and now not only was he somebody that was a mentor to me he was also a really good friend and [Music] I'd have never made it without him the horse who slayed claybournes thirst for a Kentucky Derby winner acquired his name in picturesque circumstances they went looking for him when we were breaking urology was broken right there at the farm and he was turned out in the paddock and then went looking for him one morning it was foggy and they couldn't find and they thought he must have jumped the fence or something so they were learning he'll just you know where's the Seattle Slew Colt we can't find him so I said well you know where else he got to be in there so they went down in a swale and there he laid down our sleep hidden they'd called and hollered and he's the only thing I'm gonna lay here and sleep and that's kind of our she was nothing bothered him you know he had a tremendous attitude and a tremendous mind and you know the hoops and the hollers and all of Derby day wouldn't have meant anything to him it's just tailless could get it home he ran a great race that was tough because I mean I'd been up there on Saturday we ran a fill in the mother goose and I went over the bar and it was you know nice late spring day in New York he was standing there head out over the web and breeze blowing for top looked like the happiest horse on the face of the earth came home that night would he call the next morning and said you sitting down and I said well yeah what's going on he said soil drop dead this morning said you're like hey chill I'm not doing in this thing here I mean this this might be little rough but what the hell I ain't the first one that was dealt a bitter pill and won't be the last Witcher hadn't been the last and it's just like you said it's this game and Leroy Jalla said the best this game one meant to be played by people wearing short pants if you ever see me around these sales wearing short pants you better run for cover because the world's getting ready to come to an end woody Stevens was not the only trainer who's old school horsemanship became synonymous with Claiborne you know who Hugo Lasell good friend of mine really good horseman so we were talking about shooting the gayi one day and he said he's really good and he said I said you're damn right he is he's a hell of a trainer and he said he's got the gypsy touch and I didn't know what that meant I guess it was maybe it was an English expression maybe you do know but you know I called you cold because I've got a a yearling Philly by run-happy that I'm all keeping race and I called to you go back in the spring I said you go this is what you told me many years ago but shook touches got to be a good thing doesn't it and he said oh yeah it's a real good thing and I he didn't say what it is but and I was talking to dr. Brown much one day and we were talking about sug and he said says what makes him so good I said I don't know doc I said he's I just he said you know I'm around there in the barn in the afternoon and he sits in that chair and he walks his horses go round and round because they get him out for an afternoon stroll at feed time he said but he sees things and those horses as other people don't see and that's that's that's just you know he knows hey I'm not gonna breeze his horse a half mile before the race like I did last time I'm gonna go three-eighths the day before or that's the way you used to be I guess nobody does it anymore but anyway it's just a feel a touch you know mr. O'Brien looking in one side and the horse looking back and I don't know it's just it's it's something I think you're born with I don't think it's something that you can acquire like Danzig mr. prospector was a Claybourne giant with an unorthodox background in fact he was standing in Florida when one of swales owners Peter brand brought him to set for tension December that year said well you think by mr. prospector sale he's doing great and he said I've become friends with mr. Savin and he's getting a lot of pressure regarding this horse and he's an elderly gentleman and he don't like the pressure and I said well you know that's pretty good pressure to have on you and he said says he he's only got six years left in the horse and he said he has told me that if you give him three million for those six years and he can't moving this year he's got to stay down here but y'all can breed on that share and then if you call for a vote in June they'll vote because there's other folks that would like to see him come to Kentucky they'll vote to move him and only takes the majority so I said well I'll do it so we bought the six shares at Cox bought one Peter bought one mr. Phipps bought one on Christiana bought one cherry valley bought one I can't remember who bought the six things but anyway they call for the vote in June and it was voted 39 to 1 to move him up here but it was not my doing so it was all Peter brand he's the one told me what to do how to do it and I will could follow those instructions so that's what we did well any form of athletics that you fool was speech is a precious commodity and he had it in abundance and he threw it into his offspring and you know it's just if you've got speed you you go in with an edge in my opinion and you know he he had it like in its what we were talking about earlier a good staying on the dirt but I mean he'll get your grass horse to get you one one front lawn it gets you anything in Secretariat's case when you consider the females that he was bred to the first five or six years he went to stud I mean it's like a who's who of brood mares and if they had daughters those daughters had a hell of a chance of being successful ad because they were by him but being probably more important they were from those great great great female families and then you know the other stands that are great staying there they're probably going to do it all like we were saying they they get a sprinter they'll get her out or they'll get a turf or and they'll get off track they'll get fast try you know and if they're able to do all those things their sons will probably be successful and their daughters will probably be good brood mares I mean there's a bit of many a day I walk down the breeding shed in late May and flat or might come in or run happy might come in and you know you would have been there in February March early April they walked and they're trance and they're ready to go and they jump up and breed and it's great and it's May and they were walking on their heads down and I you know I I mean I'm thinking to myself well now if I was a horse trainer and I knew this horses personality and he had his head down like that I wouldn't enter him in a race so why am I gonna breed this horse to a hundred and seventy five mares when he's telling me hey I've had 130 this year and that's enough I mean you know it just doesn't make any sense to me and the one thing about it I mean old flat are still out there as arthritic he isn't his knees and he's what 20 years old he's still going strong we talked about mr. prospector and Danzig they were still breeding mares and they were 26 to 27 so you know if ever I'm lucky enough to get a good one by God I want to preserve him for as long as I can because they are damn hard to come by as market tastes to change so Claiborne has had to adjust but there are some principles that abide Clayburn itself has got about 28 brood mares they own 30 mayors with Miss Dale Snyder so you're gonna keep those numbers at that level it's a continuing calling process so if you know what you're doing when you're calling you know hopefully you're keeping some good ones and selling the bad ones because if you don't you're going out of business if a good horse does come from the Kleber until snyder partnership or the Clayburn partnership it's probably been a garden that's been cultivated and weeded and watered and had everything bred to the best stage you can breed them to you know that's that's all the people a clavering farm do i mean we're not in the restaurant business we don't play the stock market we play the horses and not betting on them but you know betting our reputation on for sure and I mean it's what I you know we live on the farm we're there 24/7 there's no absentee ownership to it and that's what I always did and you know what looks like hopefully what walk or my sons gonna do having made such success of his own tenure Seth decided that his own son Walker should also be given responsibility when still a young man people when I made that decision they said said you sure you know what you're doing he's awfully young I said you know I don't want to listen to that young crap I said he's a year older than I was when I started plus I will still be around and my father wasn't and he doesn't rely on me much he doesn't need to because he knows what he's doing but I think in the back of his mind knowing well you know if something happens here I can always go ask him what I need to do then I think that's probably comforting at least I hope it is [Music]

Channel: Keeneland

Views: 33,386

Keywords: keeneland, Thoroughbred, Horse, Racing, Sales, Auction, Claiborne Farm, Seth Hancock, horseracing, Secretariat, Danzig, Mr. Prospector, A.B. Hancock, Penny Chenery

Id: 3xpnxm2d7pg

Length: 27min 55sec (1675 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 26 2019