LET'S TALK TECH-NOVA GIVEAWAY (CONT) 2.5L TURBO DODGE POWER-HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

[Music] yeah we're live right at 11 00 am i guess yeah yeah so early a edition ish i think i'm gonna be starting these a little bit earlier though so i can you know get up and start the day but today we're going to be talking about two things one is they're both basically project cars the the dodge omni which i'm calling project omnivore because i think it just you know it rolls off the tongue it's pretty good um we're gonna talk about that and also the giveaway nova so as you guys some of you guys may know already from last night i'm officially giving away the 1972 nova project car lots of stuff goes with it i'm giving it away for for nothing you don't have to you don't have to buy any merchandise or you don't have it's not a raffle you don't have to do any of that stuff i'm just giving it away but here are the rules one you need to send me an email and i'll put my email address down here right away so you guys can see it you need to send me an email at this address although not not caps though get rid of my caps lock send an email to that email address if you'd like to win the project nova you can take a look at the video from yesterday you can see what it looks like and i'll be putting up more and it but here are the rules one is that you have to come pick the car up it's in northern california so you have to come get it it has to be done by the first part of may you have to get the car running in 30 days or less and send me a burnout video you can stick whatever motor in you want it has a transmission and a rear end a drive shaft it has a saginaw three-speed manual transit it was originally a six cylinder car um you have to get it running and do a burnout video and you cannot sell the car you cannot just turn around and sell it you have to it has to be a project car you have to like take it out run run drag ship runs or whatever you're going to do that do burnout videos whatever you're going to do with it but you have to keep it [Music] um you know for some period of time or whatever uh so you send me an email and tell me uh who you are and what engine you're gonna put in it and tell me that you can come pick it up and and uh do a burnout video for it and then maybe what you have planned for it if it's a you know you let's say you recently saved a busload of nuns or whatever give me some kind of story about why you're you're the person that should be given the nova because i'm just giving it away i don't have room for it so the the nova has to go and so that's the giveaway for the nova so if you guys are interested in that please send me an email i put my email address and then uh the the so that you know the nova is not a candidate for total restoration turning into a yanko clone be more likely it's fairly rusty although it's you know it's i think it's from out here although i think it was sitting in a field what seems like underwater i've i've pressured washed the whole thing many many times to try to get as much of the dirt out of it i can there are holes in the floor um the body's not bad uh you know you can you could certainly run it the way that it is um you know put some stop signs or license plates or other kinds of tin over it or or do new floors or whatever you want to do it has seats um the trunks in good shape it has tigers and has krager ss wheels and stuff on it so you you get it done and do what you're going to do with it and then send me a video and then you we we want to celebrate with you and you know get the car done so that's the nova so if you're interested in it um make sure and make sure to do thumbs up and like and share and do all that stuff so the next thing in the thing that we're going to talk about mostly today is the dodge omni i have a 1985 dodge omni turbo that i'm going to get running and drive around but i have two motors right now that we're going to be doing testing on the dyno with one is a not the motor that came in the car the uh i got another motor from the wrecking yard from a local wrecking yard that was in a 1984 dodge 600 and so it's an early 2.2 turbo motor and if you know anything about these motors the two that that particular one came with a small turbo non-intercooled um it's a draw through throttle body with a throttle body in front of the turbo oddly enough and as i said no intercooler it was the bear basics kind of thing turns out that we actually got this thing running honestly we stan stan started it and that video is up you can take a look at that and we're going to be running it with a holley uh management system not the factory stuff what i did was and the video is up on that as well you can see uh what i did is modify the distributor basically it's got a four pulse in the distributor and i just put an ls um crank trigger on it and then we're running it with a holley based on that so that it we've like i said we've already started it around and ran it but it was not in good shape so we were having it rebuilt and i'm rebuilding it basically in the stock bottom end we'll put ring gap in it and then put the stock head on it and we have lots of other testing that i'm going to do we're going to run the 85 in it or run it to different boost levels or run different camshafts in it we're going to run test all the intake manifolds on it the the early one the log style manifold the one piece the two-piece i'm going to make a super richie adjustable intake manifold for it we're going to test the draw through versus the blow-through stuff we're going to test different intercoolers you name it i just want to get all the information that i can to the 2.2 2.5 dodge community and obviously we run it at different boost levels and show what boost does and stuff and then the cool thing is is to show what boost levels do with other different modifications because that's really the key and it doesn't matter whether it's this 2.2 liter turbo motor or an ls or small block chevy or coyote or whatever it is boost just multiplies what you're starting with so if you have a stock motor it's not making very much power and you add boost to it you're not going to get very much gain per pound of boost if you make the naturally aspirated motor more powerful then you're going to get bigger gains and that's how it works out the more powerful the n a motor is the better you're going to be able to do as you start adding different boost levels and it will respond better because that's what happens if you if you add if you run 10 pounds on a 100 horsepower motor you're not going to make as much power as if you were adding 10 pounds on a 300 or 400 horsepower na motor so that's how it works out so you want to make the n a motor as powerful as you can which means that when we do a build up on this 2.5 and that's what we're going to talk about today we want to try to do everything that we can to make that combination make more power just starting off because like i said if we're starting with a motor an eight and a half to one motor and especially in the case of the smaller 2.2 [Music] in the non-intercooled version i mean that motor might not even make 100 horsepower n a so you can see it just takes a lot of boost to get any power out of it by contrast if we first of all on the motor that i have we step up to a 2.5 right away you're going to be making more power because it's bigger so if we have a bigger motor and then these will be the questions should i change the static compression i'm going to do forged pistons for it i'm going to do four draws and forged pistons so should i step up from the 8.5 to 10 to 1 or 10 and a half to one or something so so should we step up in that if you then do a ported head which will definitely do i have a poor head being ported right now by david visard if you guys have not gone over and checked out his channel you definitely should because he's the legend in the industry and and has forgotten more than i'll ever know about headquarter so he's doing a he's doing a 2.2 head and so on these dodge motors we have an early and late cylinder head essentially the later head has the also has the roller cams in it which i like so we want to do an early ported head which is david dave is doing i'm also going to do a later ported head which somebody else will do and if you port the head the obviously camshaft becomes a critical thing i know for a long after going through all of the you know whenever i decide i'm going to do a new kind of other guy's motor and test it for the first time i go down the rabbit hole go online like everybody does try to get as much information as i can and you'll get a lot of guys that will say well you don't you don't need to change the cams you just need to turn the boost up yes and no like i said if you just turn the boost up you're going to get more power because that's what happens we you know like i said boost is a multiplier but i want to multiply something that's making more power so the stock cam is not optimized for power production it was optimized for what they were trying to do with it and reach the power output that they needed to do in stock trim and do other things too last for a long time be inexpensive to make um have no you know have few or no warranty issues um produce the combination of mileage and longevity and so they have a bunch of criteria that they have to make for the camshaft that have nothing to do with maximum performance so any by design almost any factory camshaft is going to be mild especially on a turbo motor because it's easy to make the power level especially back then they were only looking to make you know 140 or 150 horsepower and they had n a motors that were already making in the shelby version i think was already making 110. now obviously this is lower compression but they only had to run seven pounds of boost so it was easy for them to make the power that they wanted to make back then back in the 80s so fast forward to now and if we're looking at making more power what you want to do to make more power with these motors is in the build up and this is what we're talking about on the project build up for the 2.5 we need to make that n a motor more powerful so ported head camshaft is going to be critical for that we want to put a much bigger much more aggressive camshaft we want we want more lift we want more duration and i know that a lot of guys are worried because i get this all the time on the ls stuff well you can't have any overlap you know you gotta have a cam that that doesn't have any overlap or all that wonderful boost is gonna bleed out no that's not what happens we want a camshaft that's gonna make good n a power and the cam shaft is going to make power in the rpm range that we wanted to make power in right now this motor is probably going to make peak power at you know less than 5500 rpm 52 or 5300 or something and especially on the 2.5 it's going to be lower than it is on the 2.2 because the bigger motor effectively tames the cam timing and also uh affects where the intake runner length is going to be designed to make power so the 2.5 traditionally would make power at a lower engine speed than a 2.2 the same thing happens with an ls a 4 8 will make power at a higher engine speed than a 5 3 or a 6 0 if it has the same cylinder heads camshaft and intake manifold so we want to we have we want to have a pretty aggressive camshaft in this thing we want to have a ported head um then then we have to look at intake manifold the intake manifold a lot of guys will look at and i know from going down the rabbit hole on the dodge stuff there there is a big concern about flow oh we have to have not only more flow from the from the intake manifold which is partly true and we have to have even flow again also true but what the what these manifolds didn't have especially the early ones is they had no runner length in them they were just a log j the intake manifold could have just as well functioned as the log style manifold for the exhaust because all they did was they when they did i think the original one they basically did it in terms of packaging they needed to fit the the because it was a non-cross flow head they needed to package the intake manifold the exhaust manifold the turbo the throttle body all the stuff that goes with it between the engine which i think is why it's a it's a slant four between the engine and the firewall so that meant them making just and and and back then i think also the this is fairly early on in the turbo development stuff they just figured that the turbo would you know blow air in and they didn't have to worry about that later on they would switch to a long runner or a long er runner intake manifold which which helps power production and the intake manifold like the camshaft will determine the effective operating range of the motor where this motor wants to make power now because this camshaft and cylinder head the camshaft was mild from the factory and the cylinder head is fairly restrictive in terms of flow it's not like they had like a four valve head or something on here this thing still even with a short run or manifold made peak power at a fairly low engine speed which means that when we put a long runner manifold on it it's just going to make more power through the whole range compared to the compared to the early short runner manifold the short runner manifold is a terrible idea and should be replaced which we will be doing so we'll make a manifold and like i said i'm going to make an adjustable manifold just to demonstrate what happens when you make it short and then make it really long so we can go to extremes and then somewhere in the middle there we will find the runner length that we need to run in the rpm range we want so if we want to make a big power number we'll shorten the runner length and if we want to make a good average power number we'll have to have some other combination but it'll be good stuff to show you and then i i don't know if i'll be able to do tapered runners or maybe we can 3d print them or something like that but otherwise if i just use aluminum ones they'll probably just be a constant diameter which will still allow us to make a lot of power um big throttle bodies on a blow through application on a draw through application like the the early 2.2 that we have a bigger throttle body will come into play because you want to maximize the air flow going into the turbo but here's the thing we can put a 200 millimeter throttle body on there in front of the turbo but if the opening of the turbo is only 40 millimeters or 50 millimeters or whatever it is um you're going to get to a point where it doesn't matter how big of a throttle open you just have no throttle body on there just let the turbo do what what what it needs to do put a radius entry like this kind of thing in the front of the throttle body and then maximize the flow into it at some point the the the opening in front of the turbo is going to be not important because it just can't flow any more air no matter what you put on there and then that also happens when we package the turbo and the inner core and the intake manifold the way that god in nature intended it to be with the turbo blowing boost through the throttle body and then into the intake manifold when you do that the throttle body sizing also becomes less critical now it needs to be a minimum size to work with what you're doing but because we're pressurizing the throttle body the flow rate of the throttle body goes up dramatically so it becomes less of a restriction than it does when we're trying to draw through it and this becomes you know more of an issue as we go up in turbo size so if we're trying to make 200 horsepower and we have a 200 horsepower turbo on there we obviously don't need a very big throttle body in either combination but if we start talking about three or four or five or six or 700 horsepower and we have that size turbo on there along with the other things like the ported head and camshaft and the intake manifold that go along with that then we need a turbo that will support that but anything you know for even for six or 700 horsepower when we're talking about being boosted um you know if we if we had like a 60 or 65 or 70 millimeter throttle body on there all of that is more than enough and i know coming from all of the testing that i did with the four valve honda stuff when we went to bonneville a 65 millimeter throttle body it even at 700 or 800 horsepower is is not a restriction on the turbo application when you're blowing through the throttle body so all of that all of those things will be fairly easy to solve so lots of lots of cool dodge stuff testing coming up and i was just thinking that and as a matter of fact we'll do our poll here create a poll okay wait what happened here oh i just i just did a a random pull here here we go there we go okay so the poll for today for this morning or this afternoon i guess by now should i go for more than 600 horsepower with the turbo 2.5 liter buildup let's get 100 we won't we know you never do there will always be those uh let's see so this is our this is our new poll yeah i don't know i just clicked on poland it just it just made one before so the poll is should i go for more than 600 horsepower um on the 2.5 liter build up for the dodge omni so should we go for like it should be a maximum effort thing so what i'm thinking of is that this thing i have a set of forged pistons for it and i was thinking about just putting the forged pistons you know honing ball honing the block surfacing the deck get a new head for it put it on there put the turbo on there and go and just drive it around it has a ford piston it that's one option the other option is just if i have it apart let's just put a forged rotating assembly in it you know let's put a uh i don't know if there's a forged 2.5 liter crank they're certainly not from the factory you know i don't know if somebody makes an aftermarket one off to take a look into that i'm actually not worried about the strength of the factory crank because i don't i've i've never broken a cast crank or a steel crank with any amount of power and i'm not saying that you can't do that i'm just saying that's usually not the thing that goes usually it's a rod or piston so if we put forged rods and forged pistons in it and then put an mls head gasket on it head studs you know a good ported cylinder head cam chef yada yada yada and a good oil pump and oiling system and all that and then i think we can you know we can turn this thing up to whatever we can make with it i say no you'll drive over the crank that's good so um so should we do 600 um more than 600 so that just means you know and that that if you the thing is with this kind of combination is that even with all of that stuff even if you put that kind of effort into it if you do um you know see because you want to put a turbo and then we got to make some noise if you're going to put boost to this thing that's why i wanna do ported head and cam and intake manifold so this thing makes power otherwise you gotta run like a million pounds of boost you're talking about like on a stock motor you're talking about making six or seven horsepower per pound of boost it's you you don't get very much gain and so you have to make you have to run a lot of boost to get any kind of gain so you start modifying it then you have to so i'll give you an idea so if this motor makes a hundred horsepower n a because that's how we have to base on how much power we get per pound of boost so if we divide that by 14.7 that means that each pound of boost will give us roughly 6.8 horsepower now it would be a little bit more than that if we did the e85 which we plan on running on anyway and we'll show you what the difference between 91 and e85 is at some lower boost levels but you know if we and you can scale this up pretty easily if we if we now make 200 horsepower we're now making 13.6 horsepower per pound of boost even that is not a lot but because as you can see it it takes a lot of um you know it takes a 10 it we're only going to add a 136 horsepower at 10 pounds of boost and so at 26 pounds you know you could you can do the easy double math kind of thing and it works out but you can see that why it takes a lot of power or a lot of boost to start making like a good amount of power that's why we want to do everything that we can to make lots of n a power and this is why for instance a honda k series that would make 300 horsepower come on so you know you're looking at 20 horsepower per pound on a 300 horsepower nak series which is pretty easy to do um 300 horsepower flywheel deal we did that fairly easily on the k24 stuff because it has lots of cylinder head and we put you know decent skunk cams and it's got a good intake manifold and all that so it becomes a lot easier that's why the 2.5 dodge motor would be hard pressed to make the kind of power that a 2.5 liter k series does um 2.4 is 2.5 but the displacement really isn't the thing the thing is the is the head flow and the intake manifold and the cam timing and all that that's why it gets harder to do that's why one engine can make more power than another under boost certainly at the same boost level because it's starting out making a lot more power in a and you know that's so cheap said we still have 29 saying no that we don't want that much power uh it's gonna need a lot more than three bar i think what what is the what is with the matte apple thing we know mad and that's a good guy okay i don't know max i don't know what your deal is uh frank please install a back pressure sensor so we can measure total engine pressure ratio we will have back pressure measurements on it [Music] uh richard we know you won't go over 600 horsepower maybe on the engine dyno which clutch would you run which trans i have a trans already it has a the upgraded trans on this thing it has a clutch this thing was running already running 20 something pounds of boost on it um you can literally get a junkyard transfer from a dakota that will handle that power i don't think he's going to spend that much money the the trans is already there so i'm not worried about that that it already came with the trans that will handle that kind of power and the right now we're going to make 600 i'm talking about 600 flywheel horsepower too all it needs is a cam and head that make 200 horsepower 600 that's nice i i certainly think 200 wheel or flywheel horsepower is possible with that 2.5 i don't or the 2.4 i i don't think that that's going to be a problem and then we'll put head studs and obviously uh mls head gasket on i don't have any quarter mile goals for it i have power goals for it right now let's just figure if i'm going to do that if i have the 2.5 or the 2.2 that we're going to do all the testing on and then we have the 2.5 i don't know why i keep calling it 2.4 or maybe i'm thinking honda um if we have the 2.2 that i can do all the testing on on the engine dyno and a motor needs to go in there um you know why don't we put something good in there so the question is if if there were any 2.2 2.5 people here um what cylinder head would you use for that would you use the bathtub head or would you use this what is it the 781 or 782 or would you use the late model head and would you use the flat tappet cam or would you use the roller cam i'm i'm leaning toward the late later model roller stuff and the 781 or the 782 head the g head the og head [Music] will any of your testing lead to additional camshafts uh yeah i think i think that that is possible the heads are a wash once all the work's been so when they're ported that you think that they flow the same there's a head from the conquest fit it's a different engine family so i'm not sure guys have put the four valve srt4 stuff on there but that's not the direction i want to go i had heavily modified ported swirl heads for big valves and the g head got me the best power it sure is a lot more horsepower than was possible back when i used to play with them well most guys just put um not a lot of guys did uh especially when these things first started they were just turning the boost up and then on non-intercooled ones they were putting intercoolers on them they also the other mistake that a lot of guys were making is they were using um factory ecu's and then not knowing what the timing actually was when they were running boost and then trying to get them programmed for different size injectors and stuff and so we're we're not going to have any of that i'm going to have a obviously on the engine dyno we'll have a standalone ecu that we can make sure that the air fuel and timing are exactly what we want yeah dean we'll be doing this on the engine dyno do you often put heads on a flow bench to test them yeah i've tested a lot like hundreds and hundreds of cylinder heads on the flow bench a rampage would be cool uh i'm i'm going down to um disassemble this 2.5 uh probably tomorrow i say the more valves more chance for fail a floor valve head is pretty well scienced out um i don't know about doing that upgrade because i i i like to go on and watch some more youtubes on that and that would be interesting but that's not the direction i want to go if i was going to do that i would just swap in the srt4 motor and trans probably um and if i was going to swap a motor and trans in there it would it would be a k series it wouldn't be an srt4 motor i know that that's heresy and it's not a dodge one but it's a better motor and it makes a lot more power i think the bathtub had helped me to have lower compression allow me to run higher boost so that's the other thing is uh i wouldn't go lower in boost i would go higher in boost i mean i would go higher in static compression to build a motor i would wouldn't start out at eight and a half to one i would start out at ten to one or something a silly question richard every camera is a boosted cam but are some more efficient the way that i look at that is if i look at the camshaft and one camshaft makes more power n a it's gonna make more power under boost that i look at it only and i don't look at the valve events i don't look at that i look at what the camshaft does and what the power curve looks like and then if one cam makes more power than the other cam and a it's going to make more power under boost that's how i view it do you think flat slide carburetors have a different reaction to part throttle compared to normal i i where where is a flat slide carburetor i don't know if i've seen one of those are you talking about like the i've seen some variable venturi carburetors that do that what makes the k-series motor so good well everything about it is good the the valve train is really good the head flow is really good the cam timing is really good it has variable cam timing the intake manifold design is really good all of those things it has more rpm capability it has more flow capability it makes more na power at least compared to the certainly compared to this dodge i don't know about the bearers i don't have any plans for that right now can you share your goals for the 2.5 liter engine dyno i want to modify it and make as much n a power as i can and then put turbos on it and do a bunch of testing with it and then see how much power we can make i don't know what it will do because i don't know i have no idea having never run one of these other than starting it on the stand i have no idea what the limitations on these things are i just know if we start it with something that makes 200 it'll be a lot easier to get to 600 it's still going to take 29 pounds of booze to do it actually i think a little bit less than that because if we add e85 to it yeah dean i'm definitely going to use the i want to i want to do it with the existing heads either one of them motorcycles have round or flat slides your thoughts on turbo cams kind of indicate that there may be turbo cams i've always said that there are turbo cams there definitely are you there are cam shafts that are designed to make and i'm talking about i i look at it not in the range that i'm talking about anything that any cam shaft that fits stock piston to valve clearance like on ls is typically what we're talking about but it works for other cams too any cam shaft that will fit with stock piston and valve clearance you can run any camshaft it doesn't matter what it is i don't care what it's labeled if you go to somebody and they have a any stage one through stage four truck cam turbo cam n a cam blower cam whatever it is if it fits stock piston to valve clearance you can run boost on it now there are camshafts that will work better and make more power but they'll also make more power n a so whatever the camshaft is and whatever it does n a is going to dictate what it does with boost uh let's say you make 600 horsepower with a 2.5 liter would you put it in a car making that much power yeah i would the nice thing about a turbo motor is it doesn't have to be making 600 horsepower all the time you can run it at seven pounds and then it's not making 600 horsepower checking board dimensions and measuring the crankshaft on my 2.2 liter today off the machine shop deborah for 20 over ford fissions cool over built in the house richard are you selling the distributor trigger you made for us turbo dodge guys don't want to ditch the old computers i i can show i mean the video is up to show you how to do it it's something you can do yourself it's very easy all i had to do is um i use the existing bolts on the distributor i just made a v-shaped mount basically which looks an awful lot like any l-shaped mount that you've ever seen i just used a piece of angle iron um this was aluminum and just notched it and drilled the hole in the distributor it's it's pretty easy and then you use an ls crank trigger have you already chosen a fuel management system for i'm we're running it on the holley on the engine dyno uh bill log exhaust manifold or making some sort of header i'm going to do both we're going to run the stock exhaust manifold i'm also going to run the stock exhaust manifold with an adapter to go to a t3 and possibly a t4 depending on what size turbo i kind of want to run a bigger turbo on it a turbo that's too big like a t4 like the gt45 or something just to demonstrate boost response because you don't i i honestly don't think that that's a good turbo for what we're doing i think a t3 t4 hybrid is ultimately going to be what you would want to use on this motor it doesn't make a yeah 2.5 mi might have enough but we'll see we'll find out what happens what's what typically happens on these motors and we've seen this on even on it's less prevalent on a v-tech honda because it has the low-speed camshaft in it which helps low speed power but on a typical application especially where we take a motor and put more camshaft in it to try to push power have it make peak power at 6000 or 6500 it's gonna lose low speed power because we don't have variable cam and we don't have vtec in that kind of motor so we'll lose low speed power and if you put a bigger turbo on it you also lose low speed boost response so all those things will tend to have it not make boost down low and then make more power up top so putting a bigger turbo on it will show that and then if we show you what happens with the bigger turbo there is probably a combination of turbo and this is just like camshaft i'll show you what happens and you guys get to pick oh well i probably don't care about making 600 horsepower i care about making three or four hundred so i go down in turbo size and as you go down in turbo size you go up in response down low so for most guys having boost response down low is a much better option because it's it's a funner combination you're you're gonna you're going to like the low speed response and the torque that you have there much more than you are likely to miss any top end power that you would have from the bigger turbo unless you're actually drag racing i wonder if the 818 chassis would fit on the um omni my my ideal combination like my dream thing for an omni not this one because i wouldn't do it to this one but i would do it to an omni or a horizon i would want to do it to an n a omni or horizon that i could find would be to lift that body off and put it um put a four wheel drive k series based honda chassis underneath it that would be cool like i want uh i want the omni body on an all-wheel drive k series powered like combination that made six or 700 horsepower or whatever that would be super cool to me is the holley fuel management system user friendly for someone who has never done any tuning before yeah it's pretty intuitive and there's lots of information online on how to do it i mean on how to tune it uh yesterday during the afternoon life he a gentleman offered to give you a mopar 300 horsepower 265 straight six australian hemi that is cool but i wouldn't want him to send an australian hemi and i'm giving away the nova anyway to go if i think he was offering that to go in the nova which would be cool um and the other problem is with that particular motor there's nothing here for me to test with it and it's not offered here and so nobody i mean the australian guys would get good information but they don't have a lot of things that would be offered for that to test it it would be cool even just to run it which would be awesome that i guess i could run a turbo audit or something yup ls pieces have been solving a number of non-ls problems uh don love your content watch the nova video this morning discussion with wife after dinner today will hopefully lead to an entry uh ps can't believe you're only at two hundred thousand uh your knowledge is amazing thank you very much there is one all-wheel drive omni that does run and drive uses a chrysler minivan system and a custom rear suspension that's cool we need to see a pinto or a cvh split port injection built what's a pinto i mean i know what the pinot car is but this is not so morning morning live stream yeah i i don't think that this guys are talking about the slide valve deal and i think that the kind of throttle response that you're talking about would be part throttle drivability and not not wide open throttle stuff i on the engine dyno we won't see that because if you go to wide open throttle you're already at wide open throttle when we do the initial load part so that would be something that you would see on the street um and a lot of the drivability portion of it has to do still has to do with runner length and tune and the timing that you have and what cams you have and all that the minivan stuff is way beefier than the crv or civic all-wheel drive stuff uh richard the stock 2.5 rods we're only known to handle approximately 400 foot-pounds the crank isn't far behind so what are these guys that are running these uh 10 second all-wheel or 10 second drag race ones what they're running 2.5 is what cranks are they running in them because i know that they're making 600 horsepower at least they might be making 600 at the tire uh richard any update with the david visor yeah he sent me an email and said he's still working on it [Music] daniel we have a ford f-100 from 76 has the other guys ford 300 in or a single barrel carburetor i do like those i've seen a couple of those i want to do a fuel injected one if i do one i won't do a carbureted one we'll do the efi with the um two-piece long runner intake manifold not they're running a stock crankshaft brand that's what i thought and i like i said i'm not worried about the crankshaft on them um and certainly not at 400 horsepower 400 foot-pounds um and this the one that i have is a common block and and given what the you know if you just look at what the ls stuff has done and even big cast big block cranks and and cast uh some small block ford cranks and all all of the things that i've run that are double or triple or four times the factory power rating it's i'm like i said i'm not that worried about that steve james reeves 577 wheel horsepower see that's way over 600 um using a stock cast 2.5 prank that's what i thought the cranks have never been an issue the rods are good for a little over 500 wheel horsepower but not not suggested while it might be interesting to find out you know how much we could get away with on that with the right tuning and stuff i think rods and pistons would be the way to go and then some of the 2.2 cranks were forged that's right the timing chain is an absolute killer on these the timing chain on the 2.2 is a belt ps4 volt main cap upgrade so are there are there four bolt upgrades for these uh derby shop check and make sure that your thermostat is opening it sounds like the water's not circulating when you're getting your own show and television i don't know uh i don't know which transmission is because i'm not that transmission savvy it is not the original trans that came in that car it's some sort of upgrade one it's a it's a later version maybe there are custom four bolt mains out there the only time i've broken crank because it was bad machine shop service on heads broke spring dampeners and chopped up umbrella seals restricted oil pump if you break a crank um something bad happens somewhere else el inca those 2.5 said balance shafts stock turbo omni stock omni turbo 525 is a time bomb uh the trans did have a tag on the top and i think that i posted that in one of the early videos would a tpi intake manifold be a good candidate for converting to a 413 cell cross ram intake yeah you could start out with that because it's already a cross ram lower section [Music] el inca racing so i'll see if i can look that up uh richard how much power do you think that this stock ford 300 can handle stock bottom end only mods is a custom intake manifold carbon ring gap i i don't know with boost i've never even run one of those i've never even looked at the inside of one yeah over bill definitely rods and pistons are a safe way to go your turbo to 392 or 426 heaven hemi i have not only the 5 7 and 6 1 versions yeah the tall deck was um in between the original 2.2 stuff and then the later comment blocks let's be honest here fella he isn't going to splurge on specialty parts seeing what will handle stock is all we want to see that's what you want to see but that's not everyone remember what i said about always saying everyone i found out not to take heads for a performance build to a shop that specializes in tractor engine builds the cam gear might break on the 300 ford interested to see how far you can take the 2.2 plan to build a 2.5 for my ghs everyone said not to run them because they don't rev so that they say they're saying that the bigger motor doesn't want to rev they just don't have enough camshaft and intake manifold and cylinder head on it that's the problem [Music] i remember reading my mopar bible that you can leave the balance shaft out to free up some power i should have some pictures of the four bolts set up yeah if you can send them over to me that would be interesting and that would be one of the other tests that would be interesting is to remove the balance shaft if it's not you know too labor and parts extensive to do it otherwise there's no reason to do it but if i can remove it and show what the power gain is from that or or not and i would do that n a i wouldn't do it under boost probably because i'd like to run a bunch of n a tests also i have the n a intake manifold that somebody sent me thank you very much whoever sent that and also the n a exhaust manifold and i'd like to run those and see how well they do um because i honestly think that that's gonna actually be a pretty good turbo manifold because you know they're all turbo manifolds i got a restrictor washer in it and a high volume short water pump for like a 283 or 327 that's all new parts even second new speedway radiator head gasket is the head gasket on right um i would check to make sure take the take the upper hose off and see and start the motor up and see if it's pumping water i mean obviously do that somewhere where you can spill water all over or have it or put a hose into a bucket or whatever and see if it's processing water controlling the rockers at high rpm becomes an issue they like to spit them out this is a cam and valve spring issue most of the time that that's more what i'm concerned with on these motors is as we go up in engine speed which you need to make horsepower because you want to you know you'd like to have it be 6 500 or something to make power i'm worried about the valve train on these because i don't know enough about them a 600 horsepower 6.5 liter or 2.5 liter is going to need to be like at 6 500. [Music] i removed my balance shaft and used the holes for the 4 bolt main oh cool i'll have to look at that with 2.5 liter trans i think it will i mean i think it was definitely it will definitely do it in gear i just don't know about speed shifting and stuff was there much advantage upgrading the 2.2 2.5 with a round tooth timing belt guys were telling me to do that but i don't know again that's having not experienced that for uh decades i don't know richard the balance shaft removal eliminates a lot of rotating mass at higher engine speed i know but we ran the geyser guys say the same thing about the honda um the 2.4 versus the 2-liter k-series stuff oh you got to get rid of the ballot shafts we ran to 8 000 rpm with the balance shafts we ran it with the original oil pump too which everyone says you can't do that they'll just break and so i don't know how much of that is absolute or how much of that is just you know there's obviously a modicum of common sense there that that would be more and if you take that away it would be less that makes sense but is it really a detriment or does it help i don't know you know i'd like to see what the trace is for um the frequencies and see what that thing is really doing it might not be doing anything up at the our at the rpm this is beyond what their test rpm was because they never revved them that high haven't used balance shafts on my 2.5 for the last 25 years not a problem see that's good information they're not impossible to find i have an 85 glh i've had for 12 years super fun car uh derby so if it is flowing um is it flowing through the block or is it just flowing through the water pump um or is it just flowing through feel the front and the back of the head to tell me if it's um if the back at the front and the back of the block and the head are the same temperature that was done for nvh okay i always love it here there you go my often bad behaviors modified to better that's good non-common block engines can make just as much power as common block engines so should i go for more than 600 horsepower on the turbo 2.5 build up 72 percent they're saying yes legend has it that the balance shaft removal is worth 10 to 15 horsepower i would love to see your results easy removal and plug the oil feed hole so what is the plug for the oil feed hole is it just a um like a pipe plug or is it a freeze plug or what is it if the springs are weak or the lifters are junk well definitely when we do the head we're definitely upgrading the springs and i don't know about the lifters though what would be cool is if we could put another kind of lifter on there i think i think what guys what i was told these guys are using the um the uh late model four valve lifters in them all right the oil feed hole just has to be tapped and a screw put in it pt cruiser lifters that's what it was so you can get you should be able to get new versions of those from the dealership right and you have to shim the so the pg cruiser lifter is a different length then like a different installed height but the shim is just shimming the bottom below the lifter right in the in the insert hole those lifters won't work on a regrind we will initially do a regrind but i'd like to do a standard base circle cam i don't know if i can find a core for it though plug oil feed can be tapped and plugged or tapped in a [Music] dowel pin and cover with a plate held in place with bolt from the balance shaft mount okay i'll have to take a look at that build the car to drive go on power tour no such thing as too much power just not enough traction see that's good i have seen upwards of 500 plus horsepower on a 2.2 liter eight valve omni i'll be following this for sure building my 89 omni nice if you find a quarter by two and i would i'd be more interested in getting the the roller core i think i just like the idea of the roller i don't know if that's gonna be heavier though or not do i like 93 mitsubishi eclipses yes steve balant shaft oil feed hole but you can tap it with a 16th npt or do the cliff ramsdale legend method by plugging with a press fit of a quarter inch rod of the shank of a quarter twenty bolt then make a tab to cover it we check the head gasket and all all that pulled up hose flows like it should that's just by using stock block as cold heads are fire i i agree that the roller cams are better i don't know what's going on with your engine the thing should not heat up at idle is there a flow problem through the radiator have you checked the flow through the radiator how is the head parting project coming along which one the [Music] the 3800 or the 2.2 which heads are we talking about two point two head uh byzard still has it he's doing more work to it i told him um you're not a legend if you don't if that head doesn't come back flowing 500 cfm and he said it would you just have to combine all the ports i and i when i was going through my stuff yesterday i also did find flow data on the chevy sprint the one liter chevy sprint head porting that we did and it flowed a whopping are you ready hundred and well it didn't even flow 104 cfm it flowed uh after we reported it it did it flowed less than 100 cfm it's pretty good huh i know you're all jealous i'd love to get a custom cabinet for the 2.2 goals 400 which vendor stuff will likely work but not ideal most are wrong i think that there's a lot of misconception about uh 2.2 liter cams also is tyler having a hard time waking up brandon how do you figure the current cams are wrong what have you tested to prove that you do need to test did i see that i need to go back and look at the specs and all these did i see that these cams were single pattern cams i can't remember i'm interested in how will the north star heads flow i don't know that i'll flow those heads i'm hoping that we just put the motor on there and put a turbo on it and then and then it breaks according to what everybody says uh most of the cams have less exacerbation i have i would certainly think that that would be the wrong way to go that's not the cam that i would have made if i had a camshaft made for it ty's cooking bacon there you go pull the plug out of the block on both sides water flows out both sides it did with the old radio also there's a new one right out of the box take the caps off and see it flows clearly sounds like you're checking all the right things yeah the my son does bacon and he does like some sort of maple bacon or something it's really good there were adjustable mechanical lifters i don't know that i would do that i like the idea of hydraulic because i don't i don't i want to make it a street motor uh i am the giveaway was announced last night and what you need to do don is you need to there are a number of criteria i'm just giving it away where i'm going to randomly select somebody the criteria is that you have to come pick the motor or it doesn't come with a motor it comes with the trans and all the rest of stuff you have to put your own motor in it you have to get it running in 30 days from the time that you pick it up and show me a burnout video in it so you have to be able to come get it it's in northern california you have to put a motor in it and get it running and do a burnout video in less than 30 days or it goes to somebody else and you cannot sell it um so those are the criteria send me an email and i'll put your name on the list of people that we would we will choose at random and we'll do that live have you seen the dude in blue omni glh video at 470 horsepower was one of the scariest cars he's driven nothing quite like a 2.2.5 fetish tom not to be a downer but how you're going to enforce those rules what why are you i had somebody else ask me started asking me like these detailed questions about stuff i'm like dude you're not the guy for this if you're already trying to figure out a way to get around the system you're not the guy have you done any testing with gapless rings over standard i used gables rings on my engine masters deal but i didn't compare them to anything else and i've never run them under boost dean you got a bacon diet that is good stuff so we will stop our poll for today should i go for more than 600 horsepower with the turbo 2.5 i thought that this would be a hundred percent but no 73 saying yes and 27 percent saying no so maybe there's some daily driver guys out there so we'll end that poll thank you guys all for participating in that it's got a restrictor washer in it my omni has a stock 88 turbo 2 engine in it that would be good i like those 15 psi it can be handful you know torque steer is like that stuff i mean i had the obviously you have driven the civic at i think that that one was it well when it was right at bonneville probably at i don't know 500 or 5 10 or 20 or something at the tire at the time um but driving it on the salt at part throttle until we're going 150 or 60 miles an hour and then going to wide open throttle it's pretty easy on stuff we just have to worry about traction more than anything uh i didn't do any obviously drag race launches on it total steel has a podcast and it has me wanting to use them on a 2.5 build i i don't think that that's necessary um i i don't think that that's where if you're looking for that to be an edge in power that's not where i would look you have a lot of other things for the that dodge omni motor where you can get big chunks of power and you're not going to get it with rings and i love the total seal guys and they're good guys but that's not where i'd be looking 30 days takes some commitment it does it it's more for a guy that already has an engine sitting there which there are lots of guys that have that and they just decide i'm going to make this happen and to honestly if you have the engine and the the hard part would be making sure that you have the the clutch and the flywheel because really all you'd have to do is all you'd have to do and i've never done it just get the engine mounted with a clutch and flywheel in there you don't even have to hook up the radiator or any of that stuff to do a burnout really and like like we were talking about last night a gravity fed a carburetor iv and and a battery or a jump start or whatever and it's get the engine running and do a burnout that really is not that too involved i'm not saying you have to get it prepped for the zip tie drags or the duct tape drags or whatever just get it running and and so that we can hear it and do a burnout so by the life you wanna you want a crispy or no crispy bacon i don't there's not really a bad way to have bacon right i know maple because that's the only thing that could make bacon better 76 nova 858 and a half to one compression high energy 268 oh that's good stock stall is soggy yeah you're gonna need converter on that for one thing i'm hoping that it's a dual plane intake manifold and a smallish carburetor on there you have a couple things that are hurting you i don't know what uh i don't know what heads are on that but maybe it's a 76 cc chamber like smog head on there if it's if it is a 76 350 that's probably what's on there so all of that stuff is combining to kind of hurt you i'm hoping it's not a single plane that would be even worse but if it's a dual plane um you could mill the heads or put any kind of good head on there but a converter it you know probably 2800 or something is going to help you uh tom you could still enter uh we we could just get your name in there uh noodles what's up how long has it been the street the stream's been live for an hour and nine minutes i'm gonna have to get going here pretty quickly [Music] us canadians just put on the fancy sauce maple bacon we just put maple syrup on it that's all good i'll make maple bacon on your pizza okay that'll work i lap my top range to the lens you are you lapping the tops and bottoms of them so they fit in the ring glands or or are you lapping the ceiling surface what do you tell me about that it's good to have you progressively turbocharge every engine until they blow so we have an idea of how much we can push an engine with a turbo and some durability i think with the like if for instance let's say that i took a a stock unknown condition kind of um northstar engine put it up on the dyno then ran boost on it that might not tell us the strength limit of something because maybe the thing was already had already been overheated once or twice in its life maybe the head gasket was on the verge of going you know the only way to know that stuff for sure would be to kind of do what we do on the big bang stuff on the stock bottom end stuff is make sure that everything is right and even then we don't know because if the like on some of these motors that have two or three hundred thousand miles on them you know where are we at in its cycle life everything has a cycle life and if the rods are two-thirds of the way through their cycle life you know have we lost some of the strength in the rod or the rings you know there's a lot of things the only way to do it would be to start with a brand new fresh engine and then do that so that everything's brand new and then we can figure out the strength issue but i i think we'll still get information from it doing the north star thing hopefully what would happen is we run the north star and we run a turbo and intercooler and injectors and e85 on it and it makes five or six hundred horsepower or whatever and people go hey look when things are right it does that which is more often than not what we find out we usually go past whatever the internet number is for guys saying oh look that though you know the the 4.6 liter the rods will break at 400 horsepower or whatever it's not it's just never that you should do a 3v modular engine push the engine to 1200 like the ls 4.8 i i don't know the 3v would go there but i i haven't ever run one there uh tom that's part of the deal is when they're signing up they tell me what engine that they have to put in it and what their plan is uh the ceiling surface is top and bottom of the ring and the piston ring line okay that's the the key to ring seal is making sure that the ring is lapped into the ring land wall seal is minimum final life racing yeah that would be really nice you should do a hundred big bang engines of similar condition and do an average yeah that would be that would be nice that would only cost more money than i make uh you should make the entries cost 25 nope not gonna do that the transmission that's in it right now is a chevy bolt pattern obviously it was it was an inline six cylinder a 250 what it originally came with on the nova that's what you're talking about uh calvin's gonna try for a thousand wheel horsepower with 4200 calvin sent me an email about the nova entry and he's like was because obviously i mentioned it the other night he's all in on wanting to do the nova because i think he saw the i think he saw the the poll that we did on it it would be cool to have him do a 4200 in it a 25 cat adoption fee so dean's all in on the pancakes and maple syrup and the happy smile on the check and but there's no there's no bacon there needs to there's the bacon one there you go i'm not the the reason that there's no money involved in this is i'm not doing it as a money-making thing i just i want to say thanks to everybody for the for supporting the channel and hopefully get this to one of the people that have been supporting the channel it's important that the land stay sealed up and down the walls have less surface okay so you're not wanting the ring to wiggle around in there that would be that'd be an interesting interview to talk to the guys from total seal and see what the see what that ring clearance is and then what the surface finish that they want if there's any change in that it's important that the land stays steel is is compression going not past the ring and the wall is it going through the ring and the um the ring land and the piston and then going out is that what you're saying two more minutes gas-poured rings i've seen some testing on that stuff so now maybe i should have [Laughter] done more ring prep on my big bang motors the highest horsepower four valve modular engine is 1600 horsepower mustang that's that's not even close look look at melvin's motor if it fits it ships if it fits it boosts come on one more question who's gonna get the last question so so braden you'll get you'll get the last question what are your thoughts on steak well i think it should be combined with bacon obviously and it is awesome and makes get great sandwiches um have you seen project farms videos yes i have okay uh i've got to get going thank you guys all for showing up i see i obviously have a lot more emails now so some people are responding to the nova thing which is good and i'm excited about going down and i have motors like as a matter of fact i don't even know if i'm going to get any dyno testing done i have so many motors that i have to take apart and put back together right now the 2.5 is still attached to the trans so i need to separate that take it all apart and get that thing redone the head the was completely torched i'm told that people could fix that but i'm a little skeptical of of welding that head up and then subjecting it to a million pounds of boost or whatever that it takes to make 600 horsepower let's say um so i think i'd have to get another head which i think i did get another 782 head or late model head and i think that they're just surfacing it and doing a valve job on it right now and then i i'm going to try to send it out to have it ported i'm wondering i also i need to get with um turbo monza because i found some dyna results or some airflow results on some 3800 heads that i think according to the data way back i think brian thule ported these for me so i need to grab that data and take a look and see where it was i need to look at it and see what size valves and stuff and see if that information is there lots of good stuff like i said also found the flow data on the sprint because we did some really interesting things with the sprint head um fred the guy from accufab did mostly we concentrated on very very minor porting to not change the port volume at all in the in the port concentrated on valve job and stuff because we were trying to do more interested in fuel mileage stuff so we were trying to do stuff that we thought would affect that part throttle fuel mileage because i was trying to get you know hyper mile stuff we were trying to go see how far over 50 miles per gallon that we could get on this thing and not just in some three mile steady state or downhill you know lift throttle cruise kind of situation where we would get actually over 50 miles per gallon on a long haul and this was on a these were on i was doing trips from uh vegas at the time from vegas out to west tech and back and these included lots of big hills so we had to go over the the cajon pass and mountain paths and so these are with like real world driving conditions so it's we were doing things and and so i have all the data on that so maybe i'll do a discussion on that and then we'll take a look at also the head flow data on the 3800 so lots of cool stuff that i found that's what happens when you go ahead and try to get organized and clean up thank you guys all for showing up i will see you tonight

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 7,558

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Id: elPyJktcCR4

Length: 81min 9sec (4869 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 23 2022