LET'S TALK TECH-BOOST & DYNAMIC COMPRESSION

yeah we are live what do we have 701 702 just clicked over i'm going to call that 701. tonight we're talking about dynamic it's magic right you can determine anything i bring this up because i've gotten a lot of comments about it and i've got a lot of questions about it guys are asking hey what kind of dynamic compression can i run on my street motor like i'm pump gas like well that's a really good question and i wish i had a really simple answer for you what they want is okay if your dynamic compression is 7.74 to 1 with your combination of static compression and cam timing you can run on pump gas but as always there's a lot more to the story than that so let's talk a little bit first about about dynamic compression so most people are familiar with static compressions well static compression basically is the the difference between the piston at bottom dead center and the piston net top dead center and you have a ratio of you know it's more at the bottom and it's less at the top and then you're going to have some sort of ratio when you calculate that out it's going to be six to one seven to one eight to one all the way up to 15 to one just depending on how small this part is at the top and how big this part is at the bottom that's a static impression so you know for a long time people would know and i and i this is like the first level of understanding something so everybody knows that high compression if you have high compression you gotta run good guess look at all of the super high performance motors from the muscle partner so we had 10 and a half 11 some of the stuff let's say it was 12-1 you know look at an l88 it said right on the sticker inside the car you must run a minimum of whatever the ron number that they gave 106 or 108 or something so high static compression you need lots of octane right well yes and no i mean it is a good idea if you have big dome pistons and it's going to be a race motor and you should run it on good gas so you don't so it doesn't detonate that's just common sense excuse me but the reality is a lot different than that because static impression is the first level dynamic compression takes into account that static compression ten to one eleven to one twelve to one eight to one whatever your number is and what's happening with the camshaft most prominently the uh intake valve event so i think it's the intake valve closing so what they're looking at is when you put a wilder camshaft in you're bleeding off some of that cylinder pressure we're going to talk about why that might not be happening and how important that is but the thinking is that and and what usually happens is when you have high stat compression if you run a wilder cam timing it bleeds off some of that and then you have a lower effective dynamic compression and then you can run that on a lower octane field which is absolutely true i mean whatever the detonation threshold if you can understand that and measure that if you run wilder cam timing which is why and and we're going to look at this both ways like if i take a we've got a couple of big blocks sitting here so let's take a big block for instance so we got a big black chevy and we put a camshaft in it that's we'll look at this in reverse first so we'll put a big cam shaft in let's say we have an eight to one big block you know it was going to be a blower motor so it made it 8-1 put a big cam shaft in 278 285 286 at 50. it's a pretty big camshaft especially when you combine that with it being 780 lift or 800 lift or something it's pretty good size camshaft now a lot of people will tell you right off the bat richard you cannot run that big of a camshaft on an 8-1 motor you absolutely can it works just fine the dynamic compression is going to be fairly low because you have a combination of low compression and lots of cam timing but yet it still works and still makes power at the same rpm and does everything that it does the reason that they tell you that they want the cam companies to tell you that they want you with this big a camshaft we want you to run 12-1 compression or 13-1 is not because that cam works better with more compression compression is just going to elevate everything so whatever the power curve is when you change the compression from eight to one to nine to one ten eleven twelve it's just gonna elevate the whole thing the reason that they want you to run the high compression is because the that camshaft is going to be soft down low it's going to be soft down low not because of the static compression it's going to be soft down low because of the valve events it's a big wild cam it wants to make power up here and the the way that you get a camshaft may power up here is it doesn't make as much power down here if you have a lot more static compression you fill in some of that and so you can get some of that missing stuff the reverse of that obviously is also true and that's what we're talking about dynamic compression if you have a high compression big block and you put a big cam in it you can run uh less octane and that's certainly true but here's my question and we're going to go in and take a look at some dyno results and we're going to take a look at what happened on the 3800 v6 because it was supercharged so we added a camshaft to it we were running it with a stock cam very mild we ran out of the blower we had good guess at it because we had the 85 and we and we had no problems but and here's the thing we put a cam shaft in camshaft did several things but the one we want to talk about right now to begin with is dynamic compression it obviously changed the dynamic impression it made that lower so did it make that motor less susceptible to that nation from that change in dynamic compression so what do you guys think let me know answer in the comments let me know what you guys think did putting the bigger cam in which we know made more power we're gonna go take a look at that it did make more power and it made more power everywhere it definitely lowered the dynamic oppression because of the valve event change we it was a wilder cam compared to the stock one did we reduce the chance of detonation by putting that camshaft in so we need to think about that the reason that we need to think about that is well let's go in and take a look at the we'll go and take a look at the power curves now unplug this for a second make sure i got enough yeah we got plenty of juice in here i want i want to go in and have you guys look at the power curves we're going to talk about a couple of other things because even though we made that change dynamic impression wasn't the only thing that changed when we did that so we're going to take a look i'm going to scoot you over here so you can kind of see zoomed in here get you adjusted so can everybody see that okay everybody should be able to see that right everybody's everybody say yes i think the image is pretty good okay so here we have our supercharged 3800 and we have it the black line down here and here this is a horsepower torque is with the stock cam the red lines are the horsepower and torque curves when we put the camshaft in so here's my question lower the dynamic impression but this motor now makes a lot more torque and a lot more horsepower so did we change the detonation from lowering the dynamic compression well maybe yes maybe no let's take let's take a look at also what else happened when we did this so now we have not only more horsepower which we expected because it's wilder cam timing when i say wild it's still pretty mild but we made a lot more torque made more torque everywhere so with more torque comes more pressure with more cylinder pressure becomes greater sensitivity to detonation so while we've changed the dynamic compression and which should help us with that we've also increased the cylinder pressure which hurts us so which one of those is going to play a bigger role so you guys can comment and let me know what you think there the other thing that we did here which is also very important which is why i when everybody asks me about dynamic impression i tell them yeah it's an indicator it's a correlation but it's not a causal effect with the detonation threshold there are too many other things that are going on the other thing that happened when we did this when we put the camshaft in and and made more power you know we picked up a fair bit of power um the peak power went from 342 to 382 so we picked up 40 horsepower with the camshaft the other thing and we and we made a lot more torque as you can see everywhere but the other thing that happened on the supercharged combination is we lowered the boost pressure i think three or four pounds in this case so lowering the boost pressure has a positive effect on the detonation threshold because when we lower the boost pressure we lower the charge temperature charge temperature is another one of those things that can cause detonation irrespective of the dynamic compression irrespective of the cylinder pressure just all by itself so we have a couple things that are helping us with the detonation sensitivity of this motor and one of the things that might be hurting us now in our case on this particular motor we don't have to worry about any of those because we had a safe tune in it we had the motor was cold we had e85 we weren't running a ton of boost i think that this was i don't know 11 or 12 pounds or something by the time we were done after we put the camshaft in it so the big things like the tune and the octane and all that all those things were right the other things as i look at them are kind of secondary and this isn't even all of them this is just a couple of things to talk about so we have change in charge temperature we had a drop of boost we have change in dynamic compression with change in cylinder pressure the other things and i mentioned those a little bit when we were talking about it the other thing to think about is you can also um change the water temperature in the head you change the water temperature in the head you definitely change the detonation threshold just like the air temperature change the water temperature of the motor whatever you're running the motor at you'll definitely change the thing you can also change it with chamber shape we can go into later on when i do an interview with brian tully we can talk about softening the chambers and the effect that has on the detonation threshold it allows you to run more timing therefore whatever timing level you're at it's going to be safer the material that you have of the cylinder head aluminum versus iron there's this age-old discussion and argument that cast iron heads make more power because they don't let out all that heat one thing we do know is that an aluminum head is going to be make the motor less sensitive to detonation or less susceptible to detonation than an iron head is so we have a lot of things that can affect that affect the detonation threshold and that's one of the reasons why when i get a lot of these comments about dynamic impression obviously i understand it and know what it does i don't have a real like i'd have to i'd have to test like 100 or 200 vehicles actually out on the street that were similar where we could change only that the problem is it's hard to change only that as you see when we change that sometimes other things happen on an n a motor it wouldn't there wouldn't be as many changes but you'd have to run through a series of them and make sure that the water temperature was the same that the air temperature was the same that the timing was the same and then go through and change dynamic compression with different camshafts you'd also have to be able to monitor and have very accurate and repeatable knock detection to find out what that sensitivity is and how much you've adjusted it a lot of guys are doing this with boosted motors not not as often i think with n a motors although it the effect is still the same if you put wilder cam timing in an n a motor you should theoretically be able to run you know more timing and and have less less of a chance of detonation i'd like to see the actual testing that would have to go into that to satisfy my curiosity about that being the only change because as i said you know in the supercharged deal we definitely changed change dynamic compression but we also changed a lot of other things that could have both a positive or and or a negative effect on the detonation so when somebody tells you yeah if you lower it down to below eight to one dynamic or seven and a half to one or whatever the magic number is um just know that unless somebody has done an inordinate amount of testing on that particular combination and your combination is identical in all respects um otherwise it would be very hard to determine that that's actually the case this was a cool test and i'm very excited about getting this 3800 back up on the dyno which is why i was running around all day today went over to see um gary over at mahogany's place and talked to him about the design of the adapter plate for the 2.2 so we could get that going spent most of the day um at the wrecking yard which was awesome get you zoomed back in look i'm not tall enough [Applause] so let's see here there we go so today was a lot of running around i had to get the gaskets for the 3800 we had to get another i had to get another inter or blower gasket between the blower and the intake manifold for the l67 i have the one for the for the other one for the l32 i had to pick up the bell housing which was over at mohobits is because i was letting him use the 3800 v6 um bell housing as the back half for the adapter plate as the pattern that goes on the dyno and then he has the 2.2 one over there i just took him over replacements i had to pick this up so we could try to run this that's hoping to get it on tonight but it doesn't look like that's going to happen now i can't find the flywheel pulls i might have to get new ones if anybody knows if there are any 3800 guys out there if you know the thread pitches on the on the going into the crank to bolt the flywheel on let me know because i need to all have to just go get rather than try to continue and search for hours i need to just go get another set of bolts for it which should not be too hard we got mcfadden dale's right around the corner or you know a few miles away and they've got a lot of stuff so hopefully they'll have if it's not a weird thread pitch we'll be able to go pick that up and get that going um i also went to my storage and picked up another 3 800 series 2 the l67 blower because what i'm going to do is cannibalize it and make a manifold out of it so we can also run it in a i want to include that in the test and that's part of what i was doing over my trip to the wrecking yard and you'll see i'm doing a video on that because you know every day the reckoner is freaking awesome that's reason enough to go there but i went over there for actually two specific reasons not just to go over window shop although we know i do that as well but on my truck on my silverado i had a couple of things break on it one was the door latch to open the rear you know small door on the passenger side so i went over the wrecking yard specifically to get that and after five or six i found five or six different silverados there um of my year or that body style and and they were all gone one of them was there and it was broke but all the other ones were gone so apparently that's a fairly popular item lots of people breaking that and going over the wrecking yard i thought i would just be able to meander over there and without any problem the other part that i went to get for my car or for the truck i knew was not going to be there because i've been there looking at that before and that's the um the grab handle inside that's uh you know part of the door part of the um door panel whenever i go to the wrecking yard we just look in there all the stereo buttons are gone all the knobs and all of the door panels are always going the door panels and that handle are always gone so i got to get another door handle i took it off and because i i have repaired the one on the driver's side and i just made a metal brace and a backing plate and everything and secured all that and it worked good and it's lasted for a really long time it's lasted more than a year now and it works good the other one's broke now and i took it apart thought oh i'm just going to do the same thing but it's actually beyond repair i can't weld plastic i know people can but um i can't do that so i'm gonna have to i'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and get a new one and or or even one from ebay or something i can get that and fix that so i can give my truck some love the other thing i tried to do is i did a point of purchase or display purpose when i was at napa getting some oil and stuff because i'm going to change the oil in the truck but while i was standing in line if i you know what that truck doesn't have a um it has a uh a ratty-ass steering wheel because it's you know it's really old it's been sitting in the sun a lot and so somebody put a cover on it but the cover now is just falling apart every time i grab onto it pieces come off my hand so it's like you know what i'm but it's about time i deserve it i work hard i'm going to step up and get a new cover i'm not going to get a fluffy one but i was going to get one that was kind of like on right now it makes it look like the regular steering wheel and i went to put it on but i got one that's just way too small so apparently there are different sizes for those steering wheels and i just grabbed one because it was it was sitting right there where where i could check out so we got that stuff and so i'll have to put the you know i'll have to replace that and put it back on but i got the stuff that i needed got the um [Music] the blower gaskets and then i got the other blower so i can you know take the take the rotor pack out and make an intake manifold but the other reason the third reason that i went to the wrecking yard is um because i wanted to look for all the intake manifolds for the n a deals so i went over there and we did i did a video on that like i said that's coming out but i went over and walked around and went through all of the i went through every row because i do that every time i go there you're going to go there i might as well look at everything look at all of the of the cool like weird older cars that they have there and then i you know looked through all the import stuff and looked through all the trucks because i was looking for my panels and then went and looked through the all the domestic stuff because they have it's all haphazard there it's not it's not just all the pontiacs are right here in the forge right here so i looked through and stopped at a bunch of them and did videos on the different intakes different intake manifolds and it looks like from what i found today i only really saw two different ones um there's a composite one an aluminum one in the front wheel drive stuff and i didn't see any of the rear drive camaro firebird 3800 stuff i'd like to get one of those too but i didn't see any at this reckoner so maybe i'll have to source one of those from another place and i was just looking while i was there while i was doing recon to find out what was there and what was available and stuff that i could get i also took a look at you know so i could take a look around at all the bolts and everything that's connected to and stuff so i could do some um you know pre-staging on what kind of tools i'm going to need when i go over there obviously you try to take everything over there and then you always oh if i only had whatever thing is that you're missing um that always happens but having worked on these 3 800s now for a couple of days we can kind of see you know what needs to take place i'm just hoping that taking it out and accessing everything with the motors in the car you know won't be too much more difficult um you know some of the stuff we might not be nice to because we're not going to use it but i have to pull the when i pull the intake manifolds we want to get everything we want to get obviously the lower intake manifold the upper intake manifold throttle body and stuff some of these later ones like the later one the aluminum one is going to be a drive wire by wire throttle bikes or even have to convert it to manual um like we did with the l32 deal which is not a big deal or if or if i don't know if the probably the earlier throttle bodies will not bolt on um so we'll have to you know have to solve that problem but if i get everything then when we run it i just have to you know kind of plop it on there and the other thing if i get everything i can use the injectors to plug the holes because when we have the supercharged heads and the n a intake manifold then basically we have two sets of injectors and we want to you know you can't have big holes in there but i will run them all n a and then see what happens and then then we'll decide what to do with turbo stuff but that tests us a little while down the road because i got a lot of supercharged stuff to do beforehand and before we can do that we just need to make sure that the motor is just okay and then while with those other manifolds with those other factory manifolds um i'm just going to add the you know blower casing basically and the short runner manifold that came with the supercharger to kind of see i i if it if and i'm sure we can get it to work what i'm hoping is to illustrate what happens when you have a dramatic change in runner length and it's going to do the same thing it always does you guys know you guys have seen this because i've tested it many many times but i'll what i will be interested to see in that one is is there there a crossover point will that short run or blower manifold blowing through the blower casing will it ever make more power than these other long runner deals so that that'll be interesting and i'm also going to try to um airflow test the v6 head tonight i wasn't able to get to it last night words i just had too much stuff going on you know too busy chatting with you guys uh bobby thank you for cold snacks those are the best kind little ice little friendliness and i also while i was at the auto parts store because i tried to do lots of things um got head gaskets for the the magnum and today and part of last night i also disassembled the hemi and we we can go over and take a look at that real quick because it's pretty exciting so you guys can look at some of these david thank you very much look at some of these uh some of the engine masters motors and stuff i'm gonna grab a piston for you guys so here you go here's what was left of the hemi nice huh look at that all kinds of fancy and as you might imagine there's an attending hole in the block we're gonna go take a look at that it's over and show you why here's all of the hemi parts his parts [Music] so here we go so you can see oh yeah that's not really good right shouldn't be able to see in there look now here you can kind of see what's going on get a good lighting angle for you kind of need a flashlight i was hoping the camera would adjust basically broken rods and stuff you know your usual and a big hole in the block let's see [Applause] yeah got some windage trade damage as well so that's uh that's not bueno and this is the l32 damaged one bad bearings but it did well while we were testing though we got a lot of good information cam stuffs blower stuffs e85 compound turbo stuff you know so it uh it served us well so i'm excited now to see what's going to happen with the l67 obviously whether it's a actually a runner or not and also um is it gonna make you know is it gonna make more power is it how is it gonna compare to the uh to the l32 and put it on you know was the l-32 down we don't know that um it would be interesting to see what happens let's take a look at my camera don't know if i uh touched it and got grease on it yep cooling vents in the hemi hey got the cam made sure i took the camshaft out of the 3800 before we send it on its way but yeah so you can see it's been um it's been a busy day the cool thing is when i was at the wrecking yard and i this will be in the videos i did find a couple of other hemis that were there so i'm uh i'm wanting to get one of those this little jb weld i still have most of the parts the oil pan was full of them it's like chunky style will the hemi rod hold more power than the gen 4 ls rod i don't think so uh i've never made what we made with the um with a hemi i've never made that with it or with the ls i've never made that with a hemi uh ben i your question is can you port your 706 heads and make as much power as afr heads it depends the turbo is ultimately going to determine how much power you can make so if you and we've talked about this many times is if you have a 700 horsepower turbo i wouldn't buy heads for it just put stock ones on it i wouldn't even port them same thing with a thousand horsepower turbo i wouldn't even port the heads you don't need to because you're only gonna make a thousand horsepower the turbo's going to see that the the heads are just going to determine like what boost level you do that at if you're trying to make a million horsepower you need good heads uh what was happening to the hemi when it broke that was totally my fault you can't see it now but it had edelbrock aluminum heads on it and the edelbrocks um have a little pipe plug that goes in them because that's how they make the heads symmetrical they could bolt on either side one of them has to be plugged and so long story short the bottom end of the motor filled up with water and when it did it reverse hydrolock that's why the piston broke because it was my fault so you know you live and learn can i build your suburban no i'm not that's not something i'm interested in david on the west coast here may have enough body intake that i would loan also hv3 inserts for the plastic and aluminum intakes uh david i'm going to put my email address down and thank you very much that would be cool if i could borrow that stuff so there's my email address i destroyed the valves these shrouding valves does help we i've shown that quite a bit by and by 12 or 13 cfm it's quite a bit i want to do a 5.3 ls1 but i don't know how to make 500 horsepower very hard to do with a five three with an n a one easy to do with boost demon tech thank you very much i've been gone for a while working a few projects finishing s10 and prepping for the grand national cool that's the other thing that people do admiral just mentioned that nine to one should be safe on 87 octane so we know that 87 is good for over 130 psi cranking pressure so is there is there a correlation between cranking compression and detonation sensitivity is there a correlation between cranking compression and dynamic compression uh have you ever built a chrysler powertech 4.7 liter i have not uh oogie speed we've done a good bit over a thousand horsepower with a stock bottom end on a hemi as long as you put ring gap in it we know that they'll go there a lot of things a lot of um the reason why a lot of people were saying that these hemis were fragile and the pistons were junk are made of glass and all that is because there's two reasons one they weren't putting ring gap in them they were running the factory ring gap which is tight and also the those pistons do have a smaller ring land but that wasn't the problem the problem was the ring gap and then the lack of available tuning back in the day especially they would just put boost to boost and fuel usually which they would augment augment with a secondary fuel source and you can't do that you have to do it it has to be it has to take away timing too lee we've run boosted nitrous uh often and it works good turbos love it so ben there's two different versions of the f-body one are you gonna put arp rod bolts in the 3800 i was not going to because then it wouldn't be a stock bottom end if we're gonna continue with the stock bottom end theme uh nothing's happened with the big bang k24 yet i haven't run it i haven't we haven't turned the boost up it's only made 600 and whatever horsepower i have tested l29 heads a lot i've run them a lot but i've not compared them to a 781. yeah mike that's that's definitely true that early hemis dropped valve seats i was worried the whole time i was running mine because we had never done anything to the seats on those heads and they were really old they were from an 0 4 or 05 or six maybe yeah you can spray a lot of nitrous we ran 300 shots on the junkyard ls stuff you need to do a series where you run all the boosted engines on 91. i don't normally run stuff on 91. it's too scary okay so they changed throttle bodies and in inlets kind of like they did with the series 2 and series 3 3800 transverse stuff right 132 psi is nine to one that that's actually not true i mean your nine to one motor may crank at 132 psi but there are other ways to get 132 psi cranky it's not nine to one yeah cranking compression changes uh racer d that's a good point that changes with head flow um i remember somebody yelling at me chastising me when we were doing cranking compression about not having one guy yelled at me for not having the throttle all the way open when we were doing the cranking oppression test the other one yelling at me because i ha for not having it closed and you know i guess everybody does it their own way it's not it gets to the same point because i've done that test paul the only thing that happens is you have to run less timing and you make less power if you don't have e85 and you run it on pump gas you're gonna run like i know uh with matt over at sloppy he likes the 14 and 14 numbers that you can run 14 pounds of boost i think he runs 93 because a lot of other states have 93 in california we only have 91 but he runs 14 pounds of boost at 14 degrees of total timing and that's the most timing that has he i need to ask him if he has less timing at the torque peak which i would imagine he would but that kind of gives you an idea whereas normally like with e85 especially at 14 pounds your number would probably be closer to 20 degrees and so you would make a lot more power with the extra timing so that's the only thing that pump gas does to you is it makes you take away the timing and i i wouldn't change the air fuel on pump gas i'd still run that you know 11 2 3 4 or whatever uh james richard do you see the piston rings do i see them where i saw the hemi ones playing on the ground well jeff that and that's the problem with people they want to i i don't want to run race gas and i don't want to run i can't run e85 and i have to run 91. but i want to make as much power as i can what's the maximum i could make and i don't even talk to those people because those are not the same thing to me um you know you're you're going to turn it up till it breaks and it might break for some other reason that's not related to the amount of boost you ran and then the amount of time octane that you had and the amount of timing that you had could be water temperature could be air temperature could be a lot of things will the thinner what thinner rings are you talking about oh okay admiral i thought you were saying nine to one was the static compression based on 132 psi of cranking compression do you know if you can run e85 and a holley super i don't i don't know what a super sniper throttle body is if it's one of the throttle body injections and it has standard kind of injectors in it there should be no reason why you can't run e85 through it because the injector doesn't really care about that as long as it's big enough uh sanders we ran an lq4 a 2000 in fact it's from chad's it's 99 or 2000 um and that went to 1482 horsepower so you could certainly run a thousand horsepower with that i don't do any decent we don't do any diesel testing on the engine dyno cam timing also affects cranking compression yeah hard rock when i when we when i put together big blocks whether it's a you know i got one from a 540 from the guys at blueprint and that was already low compression but when i build one i normally make it at 10 or 10 and a half to one because it will make enough power n a i don't want to make it twelve and a half to one and have it be a dedicated thing and brulee always tells me look if you're going to make it 12 to 1 you should make it 15 to 1. because it already has enough static compression it works going to be problematic on pump pump gas anyways unless you have the right dynamic compression um he said just put compression in it don't put a little bit of if you're gonna put compression in put a lot of compression in it and make it a compression motor otherwise don't do it and so i i run them like a 10 to one which is something you can run on 91 run around on the street especially if you have a good size cabinet which we do and make power but then you can also run boost on it if you run e85 on a 10 to 1 big block you can run a you know a 12 or 1 300 horsepower procharger like an f1 a94 we run a 671 or an 871 with a nitrous on it we turn a turbo on it and that seems to work really well you know i know that uh if a guy's building a boat motor and i was going to be running it for minutes at a time it wide open throttle i might put lower compression in it because i'd be much happier if the motor continued to run and even if i gave up 50 or even 100 horsepower and the motor went out lasted like year after year after year i'd be much happier about that dome pressure refers to putting pressure on the top side of the wastegate yeah tim i think that when they crank if you're not trying to start them and you just crank them the cam timing stays fixed but i don't know if you're actually trying to start them if they're varying that i don't think that they would under cranking yeah admiral an iron-headed 12-1 motor would be a 91 especially if it's hot outside would be problematic all of the blueprint engines that i've ever run we've run that 540. we ran an na540 i think that they've run a 565 here at west tech we ran a 400 with chad i've run a number of 383s and other things and uh i think a 408 ls and an ls3 and everyone i've ever run here has worked like like we expected it to so michael you want to do a valet tune um a valet tune would be lots of timing pulled out of it and then a really early rev limiter so put a 3000 rpm revliminar or 3 500 or something yeah a five-layer mustang it definitely if it was running at temperature would um you'd definitely get detonation at 87. i run 87 in my truck all the time but then i very rarely am i in the throttle a lot like i'm driving the 450 mile an hour 450 mile 450 miles an hour that would be nice i'd get home in an hour 450 mile trip um i'm just you know i'm just cruising if i'm if i'm towing a trailer with it then i put good gas in it especially if i would be going over heels james is it beneficial to put half inch head studs in an ls no you don't need those the if you the standard headsets hold a lot way more power then you don't have to worry about the head said stretching if you're worried about that get a ca625 7 16 head stud like we did on the big bang motor and that was 1540 and 1300 foot pounds or something so the headset is not the issue so admiral he went right to the bottom of the page then right uh william do you think that the news easy 632 is worth the price i don't know how much it costs i have no idea how much stuff like that sells for because i know that i would never buy one yeah fascists that's a good point the oil pressure's probably too low to operate them yeah the roadkill guys have run the blueprint stuff a lot 37 000 for that 632. i mean the the thing that's nice about the gm stuff is they put a lot of they put a lot of effort into their stuff and and they do a lot of testing with it which a lot of places don't ben thank you very much let's put together a richard holder no prep truck trans rear-end so what do you need you need a motor for that i i see what those no prep races are and those are really big power and really big like expensive motors and those things uh will you help me tune my 18 focus for the turbo at 10 pounds it's a 2018 and i don't tune factory ecu's if that's what that is the can that we put in the let's see if this is it this was a uh 510 lift a 210 220 duration and 115 lobe separation angle it's just it was a cam from comp yeah the new corvette motor looks impressive i've not tested any of the howard stuff we may have run howard's cams here but not any of the rotating assemblies i remember thousand horsepower motors are pretty easy to do i don't know how many passes they make because i don't ever take these things out and dry grace them mckenzie this will be interesting dave advisor talked about rounding the bottom of the cylinders to allow crankcase pressure to move out of the way so is he is he wanting to radius the bottom of the cylinder i don't know that i don't know dave's pretty sharp guy but i don't know if that's the is that the only cause of crankcase pressure it's the downward movement of the piston they're wanting the air to go to the side instead of down so it's not reflecting back or something if you have a texted block you can run any amount of power to that the this cam is an off the shelf cam for the 3800 very rarely do i put custom cams in anything because it's not necessary what's the most na power you've made out of a 5'3 i think 5 505 or 510 or something that was on a stock bottom end and not on a built 53 it was just a junkyard bottom end that we put heads cam and intake on this this motor needs more camshaft and this is this is really mild it needs a 224 232 like the extreme energy g74 cam because every motor needs that or something even bigger there there's no we can talk about anything that doesn't have to be the subject matter i haven't done anything with a seven mgte toyota but i would like to let's see i want to read the girdle question does a girl help with bottom man strength on aluminum ls1 no i think it's the block structure is the problem i think it's the sleeve strength but a girdle can't hurt yeah dan that's was my thinking when i heard that i love david he's a great guy he does have some off-the-wall theories and that i i like listening to them and it'd be kind of cool to test some of them stage five from zzzp i looked at some of their cams for turbo motors and they seemed to be more toward the single pattern into the spectrum yeah tucker that's why there's communication in the gen 4 motor that wasn't in the gen 3 they do even now people complain that the ls motor has that issue even with those but you just want to have enough room for the um for this the pulsing to move around the ideal thing is to compartmentalize each each one of them and have scavenge stages from your dry sump to make sure that you don't have to worry about any of that does anyone know if there are aftermarket turbo headers for a clever small block ford build isn't that going to be chassis specific stage 1 from intense 512 523 i don't really care about the lift the fact that one's 5 10 and one 520 is probably won't even show up on the dyno um the duration is the thing that i would be concerned with well admiral the um there are aluminum blocks that you can run all the power on just not the ls1 you can run it on the l33 the lc-953s but not on any of the six liter or six two or five seven ls1 blocks we don't ever run lots of power with those because the sleeves are not nearly as thick i wouldn't run an aluminum one for very long at a thousand horsepower aluminum ls one you'd be better off to just get a 5.3 either an iron one or an aluminum one they have aluminum versions of that like i just mentioned the l33 and the lc9 and i think that there's another one too so ben you need a junkyard 5.3 with an s4a turbo on it a cam53 with a turbo on it would make a thousand horsepower less than or less than 20 pounds william happy to help man let me know if you have any questions cameron yes you can adjust the boost with a knob with a boost controller there are manual boost controllers that you can just turn it just opens up a bigger bleed basically we don't ever run more than a thousand horsepower on aluminum ls1 and i don't even remember doing that on an ls1 actually only on the ls2 and ls3 blocks scott yes the duration is the thing that for me for me it's intake duration the exhaust also obviously plays a part the duration is for me what makes the cam big or not not so much the lift if you can make you can make a 600 lift cam that has stock duration specs and it will operate like you just put rockers on a stock cam um because it doesn't matter that it's 600 lift because it's just not staying open long enough to really fill the cylinders and so duration to me is the big thing the lift is going to go along with it with any any sort of performance ls cam you can have 210 220 230 is that's that's gets in kind of the range of most of the stock bottom end stuff and then they're all going to be usually some of them will be 550 lift most of them will be up near 600. does the piston slop and 53 lose oil pressure no the piston slap is the wall of the the cylinder and the the piston moving in the wall or moving in the skirt of the piston moving in the cylinder uh why not run a turbo desk on a 437 it would be cool to run all the motors that i ever find but there's there isn't time and there is there aren't resources to do that three seven will do what every other motor does when you add boost to it whatever the power curve that if you've seen the power curve from a stock one like on a chassis dyno and you add boost to that you can just multiply like take that number whatever you saw and then um double it and that's what it will do at fourteen and a half pounds if a lot of other things are going right uh i've done a lot with d16 hondas i wrote a couple books on honda's and have run lots of d16 stuff both with superchargers and nitrous and and a turbo safe on 91 thermostated to 170. yeah with those scams i don't think that'll be a problem admiral the um are you putting okay you're putting a single chain on it whether it has a tensioner on it or not is usually dictated by the block that you're using five threes don't have them four eights even even six liters don't have them um the later stuff does ls2s have the little block in the middle of them ls3s have an actual tensioner on it if you look at any factory or aftermarket ls timing chain setup it's gonna have a lot of slop in it and i don't know if that somebody told me way back that they do that to make it easy to install by a robot because people aren't putting those together i think a robot's doing that uh i don't know if that's true or if that's just an internet myth um and then the tensioner takes up that slack but i've i went through this many many times and in fact designed something to fix that and every chain every combination of gear and everything that i ever tested had lots of slop in it do you recall the power the ls6 made on the dyno stock one so it depends on what year it is because they're rated differently but i can go back and look i've never had an ls6 um i think that the guys from hot rod did though i don't know if you can put the uh a carburetor and run that and still control your electronic um transmission i don't know what's gonna happen i don't know what signals it needs at what point is too much duration on the camshaft um when it starts to not make power through the part of the curve that you want it to be in you can keep pushing duration up and make it's going to want to make power higher and higher but at some point you know if you have a long runner intake manifold on it all you're doing is killing bottom ends you're not adding anything at the top jeff things you should do to avoid detonation um good octane intercooler cold air going into the turbo if you have a turbo on it um water temperature and tune make sure you have a big enough fuel pump and fuel injectors and somebody mentioned knock sensors if you're running with the factory ecu and has an aux sensor so that's a good idea south australia 2 31 pm c nice you're actually a time traveler what's the most you've made i haven't ever tried to break any kind of record on them um i remember the guys coming over from one of the honda places around here and i think that they turned it up to 3 50ish or something at the tire which boosted engine surprised you the the 4-8 that we did early on was the most surprising thing not that it did something out of the formula i mean it followed the formula but it just made a lot more power than we thought on the stock bottom end now you're not going to add boost to that motor right admiral guys run 11 to 1 with 91 but you have to have really good um knock sensors and stuff i don't know what year they went to serpentine stuff did they have serpentine stuff back on the um on the tune port stuff was that serpentine all right ben get some sleep yeah stage three on a 48's a lot of camshaft what's the safe horsepower stock five well if you you shouldn't be trying to boost a stock five liter you should do other things to it i mean you can add boost to a stock one it's just that you're starting out with so little power that the boost is not gonna help that much um chris that depends an awful lot on the how big the motor is and how much power it makes how much fuel it wants and the specific injector that we you'd be using some of them will allow you to go down really really low um on the milliseconds you know pulse width some of them are designed for that some of them don't like it at all so it's going to depend more on the actual injector that you use rather than just the size i just was taking a look at an l83 today and i don't remember looking at the um i don't remember looking at the front dress assembly non-ethanol fuel benefit i don't understand the question ls1 ls9 cam turbo uh i don't ever recommend the ls9 cam chef right turbo it's cheap and it makes a lot of power on the top end it's pretty soft down low so i don't think you'd be happy with what it does to the spool rate of the turbo paul the um the stall speed of the converter it's not going to be a function of the turbo it's going to be a function of your camshaft so if you have a stock cam and you put a turbo on it you'll still have the stock converter and stock stall speed the stall speed might actually go up a little bit because you're adding a lot of power to it which would be normal but you don't have to put a different cell speed in it uh you can run a throttle body injection as a blow through like you do with a carburetor uh gene you have a 3.7 liter motor and just tell me how much power you want to make and we'll size your turbo up dan says yes the crossfire had serpentine is there a horsepower benefit to running a non-ethanol fuel if you're running n a in our test i didn't see any gain from e85 versus 91 that we run here i don't know i've tested against anything else i think the engine masters guys may have the 3800 heads are going to be ported and we are putting bigger valves in it we're going to put um probably a 1 900 i think and a 155 or 157 600 horsepower 3800. well you probably could do that with a gt3582 i would think if it's 600 flywheel horsepower yeah darren if you're adjusting the you'll pick up gains from e85 or other different octanes but you're not picking that up from the fuel you're picking that up from the change in timing and so if you if you don't have enough timing in it and you add timing that's just like adding timing what's the most power you got out of a 305 i think 3 70 or 380 is some is we just put a set of trick flow heads on it and a mild cam and a you know a dual plane intake manifold uh dan i don't know i need to talk to the guy who's gonna pour the heads i don't know what the throat size is right now yeah if you're running very high ambient temperatures 85 is good and we see a little bit of gain on some of the na motors with the 85 and sometimes we see some gains down low but usually not near the peak the exception to that has been the um the coyote and also the gen 5 lt motors charles i think i'm going to order a 2.5 pulley for it what would be an ideal camshaft spec for a big bang 3800 i'll let you know after i see what happens with the intake manifolds because i just want it to run at the right engine speed but something that's going to be like a 228 2 34 36 or even something in the 230s i'm the wrong guy to ask for converters on a 2021 l86 talk to the guys at brian tooley they'll know and i wouldn't suggest a stage 4 cam in that you can get pick that 220 cam that they sell that's a much better choice and you'll get a lot of power uh c sharp is it too big for what what are you trying to do what is the intake manifold what is the intention for the motor or what what are you doing with it are you i hope that that's not okay it's a forged bottom end so you have pistons that have valve reliefs that's you'll need them with that camshaft i think the aluminum heads that brodex makes are for a 4.3 meter 5 16 oh so they are but it's a it's a about 5 16 by 18 like what's the thread pitch yeah charles we plan on grinding the snout down and i that might be overkill anyways but you know if you're gonna do it the i you have a lot of things there amid i just need to know the inducer and exuser diameters of both the compressor and the turbine to give you an idea if it's a 69 millimeter turbo that's like a gt45 it's like a 700 or 750 horsepower turbo yeah the the the bolts are really small i've already put a 5 16 in there i just don't know if i got the thread pitch rate it's a fine thread tyler q usually makes more power and i i don't know if i've run tests on i we have run c16 q is pretty nasty stuff you don't want to touch it yeah i haven't done paul i haven't done a lot of testing on cleveland's done some but not nearly enough to write a book on it no dan i haven't measured valve drop but i was going to ask somebody maybe the guys from zzp if they knew how much cam would actually fit in there i haven't measured it because we're gonna we're gonna the other thing i want to change is i'm gonna mill the head a little bit and i also i'm going to change the gasket we're going to put an mls gasket off before we do the big bang on it let's go their stage five cam is a 230 224 why would they why do they have smaller exhaust duration i won't be going that direction the 3800 already has headers on it yeah we've we've measured valve drop many times dan i've never run anything with nitro methane a 4th gen ram engine i've run a 5 7 um hemi that had variable cam and a dual runner intake i've tried to get a hold of the guys at um both at zzp and in tents and i wasn't able to get a hold of anybody so i don't know yeah ben guys like to do those single patterns or even reverse patterns on turbos and i don't think that's a good idea david a lot of the problems with guys running mls gaskets is that they didn't get the surface finish right on the head and or the block yeah gene 600 horsepower in that car would be pretty fast yeah a lot of guys what they'll want to do is um you know because everybody's running they've been running those velcro gaskets or the factory replacement deals all the time and they just take that gasket off maybe they scratch it like i do with a razor blade and put an mls gasket on there and that doesn't work i mean it might work okay but it's not going to work no matter how much copper spray you put on it your um admiral your 462 valve should have come with mls gaskets from the factory right what's the simplest to tune i don't depends on what you know and what you don't know the i like the holly because it's pretty user friendly but i've spent a lot of time on it 528 to the wheels on an audi that's be nice tim i think that tim i think that they're worried about all the boosts blowing out the exhaust yeah aaron any any kind of coating that you put on the gasket if it helps fill in or surface irregularities that's what they're trying to do and paint can do that it you know if you put it on before it dries 275 with sportsman heads that's pretty good okay guys two more minutes did someone say poor said i know that would wake you up dan i'm also kicking around the idea of putting a different kind of blower adapting a different kind of blower on the 3800 and i do happen to have a 2.8 liter kenny bell should be more than enough size right for 3 800. charles thank you very much uh ahmed i run we run ls9 gaskets on the um on on all of the later big bang stuff they all had ls9s on the the one that made 1500 horsepower that was those were ls9 factory gaskets 1471. i don't know if it needs that uh 3 8 18 okay that's what it is okay so i have bolts chad i did run a kenny bell long ago on an l67 when i was back when i was with rammer technology but it was a smaller one though i'm thinking it was a you might remember it might be a 2.1 or 2.2 i think um it wasn't really big made decent power but we still had a stock cam at which i now wish i would have put something else in there save the 3800 big bang fund nice the tvs i don't have any tvs blowers though and i have the kenny bell and i also have other size candy bells i i have a um i have an n112 from an o3 cobra that opens house and it has the intercooler but it's it doesn't package very well the the adapter plate would have to be really big for it to fit the inner core i think that the ls3 one might work out better um and plus it's a 2.8 liter blower it's big paul what's going on thank you very much yeah i just saw the tim i just saw the thumbnail for that thing on the ball honing i i've used ball holding a lot and works fine do you see the bottleneck being the heads i think that the high heads are not ideal for what we're doing but i think that the i think that the internal strength of the motor is what we're gonna get to something either a piston or a rod i'm guessing it's just we're gonna have to run a lot more boost to do it the psi blower yeah that's what it needs i'll have to add mike i'll have to ask mark sanchez if he has a 2.2 he might have one over there because he's got some kits some early 5 liter kits but i think that those were small i think those are 1.5 so it's a 3 8 18 right is that what you're thinking i'm on here a lot more than an hour tim made a good point this will be the last comment for tonight i um he was talking about putting a torque plate on there when you hone it um i don't ever do that when i do a ball hone would because we're doing it here at the shop sometimes i don't even take the piston out so that we're not going to do that but i did make one for my b series stuff um so that we could do the machining properly because with the places that we were taking to get it done didn't have that so i didn't make it the guys you know mahovits my go-to guy made that for me so you could both bolt it on there and you know do it correctly 5 16 18. cool thanks ben all right we'll see you guys later thank you all for showing up and supporting the channel uh hopefully i should be able to get this motor up and testing we'll try to do some maybe flow testing and have some numbers up thanks for showing up see you tomorrow to do

Channel: Richard Holdener

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Id: khjseap2CKg

Length: 84min 49sec (5089 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 16 2021