Leaving DND 5e for Pathfinder 2e | PF2e Guide

you should consider moving on from watsi's mess to the Open Arms of Pathfinder 2E because the grass really is greener on the other side for ages I have been told by so many of you in the comments section of my videos that I should take a look at other ttrpgs and I guess I should thank Wizards of the Coast for giving me a bit of a helpful push I'll be starting a new series from now that covers these new systems so you can easily try them too but yes I'm starting with Pathfinder why you might ask well it's simply because I know that this option offers a familiar blend of mechanics and medieval fantasy feel but I have to say I was extremely surprised at just how easy the transition was and I was even more surprised by how many new mechanics and Homebrew rules that were adopted into my 5e games were seemingly ripped straight from the team over at paizo so if you'd like to strike out on A New Path yourself well let's start at the beginning no no no you won't need dice yet you see in Pathfinder it is customary to begin creating a character with all Tins in each of your stats the same strength dexterity Constitution intelligence wisdom and Charisma that you're probably already used to from there you'll get helpful bonuses from different sources that boost your stats in a way that makes sense for your character while giving you flavorful abilities and reasons for having the stats that you do this approach is something I can really appreciate coming from a system wherein I often caught myself role-playing a character incorrectly because I wasn't properly translating their personality into the stats I picked out for them I'm looking at you Barbarian that's a bit too smart for a six intelligence score now if you still like rolling dice I mean really who doesn't you can still pick up your stats that way as an optional rule but I find this default system to be much more reliable and better suited for anything more than something like a one or two shot I've always felt a bit sore seeing some of my players in long-running campaigns outpace others by Leaps and Bounds just because they rolled their dice with a bit more luck at the start now that I've convinced you let's take a look at our First Source of such bonuses ancestry ancestries are the race or species options of this system and for what it's worth I do like the term ancestry better here your core options in the rule book are dwarf elf gnome halfling human and Goblin coupled with these options typically comes three ability boosts that offer a plus two to each of those stats as well as one flaw that offers a minus two to one other ability score but if you're in the camp of people that enjoy the flexibility offered by 5e here don't worry there's also an optional rule that allows you to select any two separate stats to receive a plus two benefit without any flaws you'll get more chances for extra plus two ability boosts at 5th 10th 15th and 20th level as well so even if you aren't able to select exactly what you want here you can still use these other free boosts to shape your character as you move along and similar to DND your ancestry will grant you certain features outside of just ability boost however these ancestry Feats are just way way cooler namely you get to pick up An ancestry feat at first 5th 9th 13th and 17th level from a pool of different options available to you at each level gone are the days of selecting your race and getting a few perks and then just moving on Pathfinder gives you tons of options for each ancestry that can be combined in different ways as you level for Unique outcomes that play into what you want out of your character from here you'll get a movement speed just like you do in DND 5e can't move fast with little legs after all but you'll also get a certain number of hit points too in DND 5e your hit points are usually tied solely to your class and Constitution modifier but Pathfinder 2E improves upon this for a much more interesting result that we'll cover in just a little bit at this step we'll also select our starting languages but that brings me to another characteristic that I'm quite fond of from what I've seen past finder does a much better job of making all of your abilities matter more equally as opposed to 5e where dexterity tends to be leaned on pretty heavily for a ton of stuff for example When selecting your starting languages you'll get the listed languages and additional languages equal to your intelligence modifier it just makes sense doesn't it finally you can really drill down into your ancestry by selecting a Heritage which is basically a sub race this choice will grant you one last ability or set of abilities that further Define where you came from and what gifts your lineage has bestowed upon you and if this seems like a lot so far I can understand your feeling but this slight increase in perceived complexity is often actually just part of learning a new system really moving from DND 5e to this is going to click relatively quickly on account of so many of the glaring similarities similar but better moving on from your ancestry you'll now select a background this too is like what many dungeoneers might be used to except here backgrounds actually matter in large part these backgrounds will give you two more ability boosts as well as a trained Proficiency in a couple of skills and a skill feat that represents some deeper knowledge about a particular Topic in the form of a new way to use a certain skill or just a boost to your skill in general more than anything here you'll usually want to pay attention to the ability score boost you get at this point but I should also take this chance to explain what I mean by a trained proficiency as you might have guessed proficiency bonus Works a little differently in Pathfinder than it does in d d and by that I mean it makes more sense instead of a set number that gets added to skills that you're proficient in depending on your level there are varying degrees of proficiency that your character can obtain in a particular skill or saving throw those levels are untrained for a plus zero trained for a plus two expert for a plus four Master for a plus six and legend for a plus eight additionally your character will always add in their level to this training bonus to get back their proficiency bonus for example a third level character that is an expert in stealth would have a proficiency of plus seven while this does mean that your characters will likely have bigger bonuses to certain skills earlier than they do in 5e I've found that this is just way more flavorful to have a working representation of the varying levels of talent in a certain skill for example I would not expect a Wilderness guide to have the same level of training in nature as a character that was raised by animals a la Tarzan this broad spectrum even allows your character to unlock special Feats as they reach certain training levels in a specific skill as for the skills themselves there are 17 of them that should roughly translate over from what you might expect if you're coming from DND 5e under the strength key ability you have Athletics under dexterity you have acrobatics stealth and thievery which is similar to sleight of hand under intelligence you have Arcana crafting the lore which is similar to history occultism which is similar to arcana but in situations where the subject might be more mysterious or Supernatural and society which has to do with understanding both political and economic structure and knowing how to use them to your advantage under wisdom you have medicine nature religion and survival and under Charisma you have deception diplomacy which is similar to persuasion intimidation and performance just as in the case of DnD 5e no skills fall under the Constitution ability and much of the skill mechanics still work quite similarly Pathfinder is a D20 system after all so to perform a skill check you'd need only roll the D20 and add in your proficiency bonus as well as the corresponding ability modifier as well as any other bonuses that you get from things like items spells or circumstances but more on that in just a moment generally just about any check in the game will follow this basic formula so keep that in mind as you go along it should really simplify buy things for you however you may notice that I didn't mention perception here what gives after all you'll even roll perception checks to determine your initiative order instead of using your dexterity modifier and every character starts with a trained Proficiency in perception well perception isn't technically a skill though you do still add your wisdom modifier to perception checks what it boils down to is the fact that you can't increase your perception training level in the same way you might choose to increase other skills that's it that's really the only reason now it's finally time to tackle classes of which there are 12 in the core rulebook The Alchemist Barbarian Bard Champion cleric Druid fighter monk Ranger Rogue Sorcerer And wizard notably compared to DND 5e we gained The Alchemist here change paladins to Champions and we are missing the Warlock but we do gain access to the investigator which Gunslinger inventor Mages Summoner Oracle psychic swashbuckler and thomaturge from other Pathfinder releases so don't worry if anything there are more options for us to choose from here that said I'll save the specifics of each of those options for subsequent videos but let me know in the comments what strikes your interest first perhaps I'll start there for now what's really important for you to know is that each of these options function pretty similar to DND 5e starting out and by that I mean that they'll give you some starting skill armor weapon and saving thrower proficiencies though some may vary in training level what does change here is that each class gives you yet another ability score boost corresponding to that class's key ability score as a way to represent your natural propensity for performing actions that fall under what that class might be good at you'll also get a number of hit points plus your Constitution modifiers starting at level 1 and at each level afterwards but wait didn't we already get a set of hit points from our ancestry that's right you actually will add this number to the hit points you already have resulting in much sturdier characters at level 1 that won't go dying at the first sign of a stiff breeze also associated with your class choice will be a class DC which will unlock a trained Proficiency in that helps to set difficulty for certain abilities that you'll get later from your class this DC equals 10 plus your proficiency bonus which would be three at level 1 plus your modifier for the classes key ability score this means that you'll be getting some pretty crazy numbers as early as 10th level when your class DC will be something like 25. now you may notice that spellcasters get a spell DC for a certain School of magic this is used for spell saving throws and is calculated in the same way but is notably different and a separate number from your class DC from here as you may be used to You'll level through Mainstay class features and abilities as well as choose what could be considered a subclass at some stage most often also at level one but as expected the way these subclasses work in Pathfinder are just a little different than how they work in DND 5e instead of just locking you down into a predetermined path from that point onwards you'll be able to continue customizing your character as you level by utilizing class Feats and you may even be able to take on more than one subclass as you level much like the ancestry Feats and skill Feats we went over before class Feats are abilities that you associate with well your class and you'll use these alongside General Feats to create synergies and tactics that are specific to your character as you can probably tell at this point Feats are a major driving force in Pathfinder and they aren't optional like they are in D and d5e this for me ends up being the most overwhelming and also the most exciting part of Pathfinder system but even so each class details a handy table of advancements near the start of their description so you'll always know when and where you should be looking for a new feat from whatever source and you'll likely notice that this means you'll always have something new to be excited about at every single level and these Feats are even the engine that Powers Pathfinders simpler and better multi-classing system wait Pathfinder is simpler than DND 5e yeah at least I think so basically when you would take a class feat from leveling up you can instead take a dedication feat from another class to gain certain skills and abilities from that class to incorporate into your own that's it no complicated mess of math to figure out how many spell slots you have or if certain features can be obtained twice you just get the skills as per the core rulebook pretty great right now with that we've learned pretty much all there is to cover for character creation and getting started so let's move into combat beginning with the differences in action economy from d d behold the wonders of the three action combat system in all its Glory unlike DND 5e there are no bonus actions each turn you'll have three actions to spin some actions like the basic attack or strike action utilize only one of your three actions per turn While others like casting certain spells take more than one action and are deemed in activity in addition your character will get a reaction such as an opportunity attack and a free action such as dropping a weapon on each round just like they do in DND 5e this system is actually both more simple and outright better in my opinion now those actions may end up going quicker than you think as even something like using your movement will burn in action so no more splitting movement for free each round things like standing up from being prone or taking cover will also require an action and I know what you're thinking already can't I just take three strike actions in one turn as early as level one the short answer is yes however each subsequent attack will be made with a stacking -5 penalty to your attack roll capping out at -10 so there is a trade-off here these penalties happen regardless of if the attack hits or misses as well again Pathfinder is still a D20 system so a -5 or -10 on your attack roll is going to seriously threaten your chances of success there are ways to mitigate this by utilizing certain weapons or taking certain Feats but all that might be a topic for another video what I would like to touch on are how your attack rolls are calculated since there are some very slight differences from what you may be used to in DND 5e when using the strike action to make an attack you'll either make a melee attack roll or a ranged attack roll melee attack rolls are calculated by adding a D20 role to your strength modifier and your proficiency bonus unless you're using a weapon with the Finesse property in which case you can use either strength or dexterity for the attack just like 5e and as it just so happens you'll use this dexterity calculation for your ranged attack rolls but don't forget your proficiency can vary in training level here too so you might benefit greatly from using a weapon that you're an expert with versus one that you're only trained with once you do manage to land a blow on your enemy you'll want to calculate damage melee attacks always deal your weapons damage die plus your strength modifier and ranged attacks use just the weapons damage die unless it's a thrown weapon then you do factor in your strength modifier as well this just makes sense if you think about it and I like to remember this by considering if an attack is done by us swinging or throwing a weapon using our strength if so you add your strength modifier to the damage next as you might have guessed making a spell attack also functions the same way as D and D utilizing your D20 role plus your classes key ability modifier plus your proficiency bonus but what about spell saving throws well here's where things start to look a little different in Pathfinder there are three types of saving throws fortitude which relies on your Constitution reflex which relies on your dexterity and will which relies on your wisdom all of these do factor in your proficiency bonus as well so be sure you're keeping note of your trained level for each this becomes especially important when you consider how criticals work in this system gone are the days of a crit fail or crit success resulting from a natural 1 or natural 20 on the die in Pathfinder neither result automatically determines your outcome you will still add up your modifiers proficiencies and bonuses to determine what happens regardless so how are crits measured if not by natural ones and 20s you might ask well a check made by 10 above or below the DC is a critical success or a critical failure respectively I really love this change because the implications just make a ton of sense if I get a 26 to hit on a Cobalt with 12 AC I don't just want to hit that creature I want my overwhelmingly solid strike to count for something likewise if I fail a fortitude save with a DC of 13 by Rolling a 2 I should think that the damage done to me would be far greater than if I just didn't quite make it yes you are hearing that right by this system even spells with saving throws can crit so when you crit on an attack you double your damage full stop but in the case of saving throws there are four possible results a critical failure in which case you take double damage a normal failure in which case you take full damage a success in which case you take half damage and a critical success in which case you take no damage it it just makes sense geez I feel like I'm filming an Apple commercial granted rolling a one does still knock down the check by one category for example a failure to a critical failure or a success to just a regular failure but it does not mean failure in the outright like it does sometimes in DND 5e so now that you know that crits aren't just perpetually left up to a five percent chance of rolling a natural 20 you'll want to stack on as much as you can for your attack rolls and saving throws and to get the most mileage out of your character you'll want to be making use of various weapons armor and bonuses weapons will still function as you might expect coming from DND 5e but there are a whole lot more of them and they're all made much more viable for certain builds thanks to a plethora of weapon traits that can give your character the upper hand in a fight with Pathfinder it's all about choosing what suits your strategy instead of just choosing the weapon that can deal the most damage even though that is one possible strategy here as well and similar effort in diversifying your options has gone into the armor Mechanics for Pathfinder 2E as you might be used to armor still comes in the light medium and heavy varieties but with additional rules like a penalty to movement strength and dexterity checks if you don't meet an armor strength requirements as well as a permanent 5 foot movement penalty if you use heavy armor regardless of your strength this added bit of detail combined with extra armor traits make your choices much more interesting When selecting exactly what benefits your character most as well as choosing when to wear or not to wear armor in general in Pathfinder 2E there are three types of bonuses and you can only benefit from one bonus of each type at any given time these types are circumstance such as in the case of raising a shield to defend yourself status such as when you are under the effect of a spell and items which should be pretty self-explanatory utilizing these Mechanics for extra plus ones and twos here and there alongside a proper understanding of your proficiencies and ability scores will reward you with critical hits and critical successes with much more regularity but there are ways to combat this type of play as well after all your foes are also going to have access to crits utilizing things like the over 40 different and often used conditions to debilitate an enemy or applying penalties to their checks and saves via a spell are all part of what makes Pathfinder a more team oriented game in combat I'll likely cover those conditions in a separate video but you should know that the creatures of Pathfinder tend to be much stronger and harder to hit when compared to the monsters of DnD 5e as opposed to just having more hit points so you'll really want to work together instead of just mulling over how to do the most damage on each of your own turns but let's assume the worst your efforts fail you get unlucky or you just take one too many crits you are dying when you are dropped to zero hit points because you can't go into the negative you gain the dying condition and you are effectively unconscious but this works a bit differently from the usual death saving throws you may be used to in DND 5e the stakes are set much higher here when you gain the dying condition for the first time you will be placed at dying level one or simply dying one unless you are dropped by a crit in which case you'll gain an extra dying level and you don't want that at that moment your initiative is then moved to immediately before the current turn and at the start of each of your turns you'll have to attempt a recovery check the DC of which is 10 plus your dying value 11 in this case this attempt is a flat check that results in either a critical success which reduces your dying value by two a success which reduces it by one a failure which increases it by one or a critical failure which increases it by two note that this can take quite a few turns to resolve your fate may not immediately be decided after just three turns as it happens so often in d d and all the while your unconscious State renders you quite helpless with a minus four to your AC perception and reflex saves as well as the blinded and flat foot conditions which will drop your AC another two for a total of minus six taking damage while dying will increase your dying value by one or even by two if the damage you take is from a crit so the problem tends to compound here obviously you don't want to be dying it sucks so let's assume you make it to dying zero a condition that technically doesn't exist when you succeed your last recovery check you are still at zero hit points and unconscious but you lose the dying condition and gain the wounded one condition or increase your wounded level by one if you were already wounded this is where those higher Stakes really start to creep in sure you can always be healed back above zero to Stave off the dying condition but you'll still gain a wounded level and if you are healed and then dropped back to zero your wounded condition will be added to your dying level so you might end up being far worse off No more healing word to just pop your allies back up with no consequences further if you ever reach dying four you die period so this all can stack up pretty quickly in a fight and the wounded condition isn't exactly easy to get rid of either as you'll need to be healed by treat wounds or be restored to full hit points and rest for 10 minutes but on that note resting isn't exactly the same either for the most part short rests don't really exist as they do in DND 5e and long rests offer a much more realistic amount of healing that ends up being equal to our level times our constitution modifier does this make the game more difficult absolutely but I don't think that's a bad thing I've mentioned in several of my other videos that I don't feel DND 5e gives players enough reason to take down time between Adventures just a long rest is all it takes to heal them up and see them back on the road to murder hobo some more not only does Pathfinder raise the stakes again here but these mechanics that encourage downtime also inadvertently encourage players to be more cautious when exploring planning out exactly how they want to maneuver any given dungeon an or encounter so as not to find themselves too far in with too few hit points there are even ways to lower the dying level needed for you to die outright via the doomed condition but that's a bit outside of the scope for this video what we should take a moment to cover are the all-important hero points that might just be your Saving Grace in such a situation those of you that are like me that are moving over from DND 5e may want to liken hero points to inspiration these are special resources awarded by the DM for spectacular deeds and must be used by the end of the session typically each character starts with one hero point at the beginning of each session and they can gain a maximum of three that they can then use to re-roll any check to take the second result or spend all their hero points to instantly lose the dying condition and stabilize at zero hit points without gaining the wounded condition or increasing it if you already had it but I rather like the greater chance for failure the looming threat of death hero points can help offset this increase recent Stakes but it is somewhat optional and it lends itself to a much more polished system that revolves around a slight uptick in complexity in exchange for a much more wildly Dynamic and exciting play experience and now that you're ready to begin your own Journey will you be setting out with Pathfinder as your next ttrpg would you like more videos similar to this one to Aid you in your adventures be sure to let me know what you think in the comments like the video and subscribe to the channel for more and until next time go out there and make some chaos

Channel: Constructed Chaos

Views: 19,112

Keywords: pathfinder 2e, going from dnd 5e to pathfinder 2e, pathfinder 2e character creation, pathfinder 2e vs dnd 5e, pathfinder 2e how to play, pathfinder 2e classes, pathfinder 2e guide, pathfinder 2e new ancestries, pathfinder 2e beginner's guide, dungeons and dragons 5e vs pathfinder 2e, pf2e, pf2e character creation, pathfinder 2e level 1, is pathfinder 2e good, pathfinder 2e combat, ttrpg review, pathfinder 2e conversion, pathfinder 2e feats, how to start pathfinder 2e

Id: CFNuHtr9q9w

Length: 25min 22sec (1522 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 14 2023

Reddit Comments

[u/darkenspirit]

I will say since coming back to PF2e, I realized I can never go back to 5e again.

I ran a few PF2e games at an LGS when it first came out and dropped it over covid for 5e players.

Ive ran through Phandelver, Curse of Strahd, and Descent into Avernus and DiA caused me end my campaign and career in 5e (i recently posted a thread in the DIA subreddit where almost everyone agreed with me DIA is a complete substandard product).

It is so badly written and exacerbates the reasons why 5e is a broken game that relies heavily on writing open ended systems for the DM to fix and patch. This results in official adventures being homebrew kits instead and while thats appealing to many for reasons of freedom and expression, it is terrible for DMs like me who cannot put in 4x hours to prep and make.

WOTC abuses its relationship with DMs imo relying heavily on them to finish adventures for them and make gameplay and products whole. All the advice on 5e channels and games are all advice to DMs on how to make the game more fun, or homebrew answers to fill obvious gaps in gameplay and design. Tons of videos on how to spice up your combat, change up monsters to make them more interesting. And its because of this is why i feel its so appealing, you can make it your own.

To me however, I dont want to pay WOTC the privilege to finish their products anymore. Give me a complete game where the stuff just works out of box.

Your Illusion of Choice video really helped me out to see the difference and I am glad more people are switching to PF2e.

[u/the-rules-lawyer]

This is a good video for people transitioning from 5E. Plus I wanted to direct some traffic his way and spread good vibes!

[u/Any-Revenue1033]

Well done. You make good videos. Easy to understand. Clear and quick. You good

[u/tinboy_75]

I started playing 5E as GM because my players wanted to try it and I thought “well there lots of channels on YouTube talking about how the good the system is and they seem to sell a lot so it must be a good system”. For someone who GM for almost 40 years I can’t believe how bad the system was. I still shudder when I think about it. Good the channels are starting to change to better systems by better companies that actually make good products.

[u/dagit]

Thanks. This was a nice watch and I sent it to my players. I'm going to be a first time GM and we picked pf2e in part because of the OGL stuff but also because of your youtube channel, Ronald. Our first session is tomorrow.

I found your videos of combat demonstrations really helped me to understand and make sense of the high-level commentary you and others had put forth about pf2e vs dnd 5e. There's only so much you can glean from "action economy good" until you've seen it in practice. A lot of the other demonstration videos I found were really just watching people play the game. However, in your demonstrations you are teaching the thought process behind the tactics. And I think for my purposes that is what I needed to see.

The two combat demonstrations that were most influential in my decision was your illusion of choice one where you show the same encounter with and without teamwork focus. And the one where you have 5 fighters that play in very different styles.

I don't know if I would like the technical nature of the tactical combat if we were playing at a physical table with no computer assistance, but we'll be using a VTT because we don't live in the same city. And I think this will help tremendously with the bookkeeping.

Thanks for making high quality pf2e content!