CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS. JOINING US IS GLENN KIRSCHNER, A FORMER PROSECUTOR AND MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST. GLENN, AS I WAS READING THAT STORY I WAS WONDERING WHAT DOES A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR SEE IN THAT REPORTING BY "THE NEW YORK TIMES." >> GOOD EVENING, LAWRENCE. AND YOU CAN’T DRAW A DEFINITIVE CONCLUSION BASED ON THE REPORTING THAT DONALD TRUMP COMMITTED POTENTIALLY MORE TAX FELONIES, TAX EVASION, CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS, JUST AS YOU CAN’T LOOK AT A TAX RETURN IN ISOLATION OR IN A VACUUM AND CONCLUDE THAT SOMEBODY COMMITTED CRIMES. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE UNDERLYING FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS. YOU HAVE TO RUN COLLATERAL INTERVIEWS TO SEE IF WHAT’S IN THOSE DOCUMENTS IS ACCURATE OR NOT. BUT BOY, WHEN YOU READ THE REPORTING, IT SURE LOOKS POTENTIALLY CRIMINAL. AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COMMIT FEDERAL TAX EVASION, ONE COUNT, YOU’RE LOOKING AT FIVE YEARS. IF YOU FILE, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE FALSE TAX RETURNS, THAT IS FIVE YEARS PER. AND A JUDGE IN HIS OR HER DISCRETION COULD RUN THOSE SENTENCES CONSECUTIVE TO ONE ANOTHER. YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS ON TOP OF FIVE YEARS, IT ADDS UP PRETTY QUICKLY. THEN OF COURSE HE’S ALSO POTENTIALLY LOOKING AT STATE TAX VIOLATIONS. NEW YORK STATE, OF COURSE, HAS BEEN INVESTIGATING HIM. CY VANCE, THE MANHATTAN D.A.’S OFFICE. HE SEEMS TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A HEAD START OVER THE FEDS. NOW, IN NEW YORK, IF YOU COMMIT TAX FRAUD OR TAX EVASION, IT CAN BE A MISDEMEANOR OR IT CAN GO ALL THE WAY UP TO 25 YEARS IN PRISON. SO IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS YET ANOTHER POTENTIAL CRIME THAT WE CAN PUT IN THE DONALD TRUMP CRIMINAL BUCKET. >> THE "TIMES" IS REPORTING ON MONEY THAT WAS NEEDED FOR THE CAMPAIGN. THERE’S A LOT OF REPORTING ABOUT HOW THE CAMPAIGN WAS IN TROUBLE FOR MONEY. AND OF COURSE WE ALL REMEMBER THAT DONALD TRUMP, LYING THAT HE WAS A BILLIONAIRE, WAS TELLING HIS FOLLOWERS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CAMPAIGN THAT HE WAS GOING TO PAY FOR THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN HIMSELF. AND WE’RE GOING TO HEAR HIM SAY THAT ON VIDEO NOW, AND HE’S TALKING ABOUT HOW HE WAS REFUSING CONTRIBUTIONS FROM FRIENDS OF HIS, IN THIS CASE PHIL RUFFIN WHO IS THE PERSON WHO IS INVOLVED IN TRANSFERRING THAT $21 MILLION THAT "THE TIMES" IS TRACKING IN THE ARTICLE. LET’S LISTEN TO DONALD TRUMP LYING ABOUT HOW HE WAS GOING TO FINANCE HIS CAMPAIGN. >> HE’S DRIVING ME CRAZY. HE SAID, DONALD, I WANT TO PUT $10 MILLION INTO YOUR CAMPAIGN. I SAID, PHIL, I DON’T WANT YOUR MONEY, I DON’T WANT TO DO IT, I’M SELF-FUNDING. EVERY TIME I SEE HIM, IT’S HARD FOR ME TO TURN DOWN MONEY BECAUSE THAT’S NOT WHAT I’VE DONE MY WHOLE LIFE, I GRAB AND GRAB AND GRAB. >> DMRENGLENN, ACCORDING TO "THE YORK TIMES," HE KEPT GRABBING, HE DID NOT SELF-FUND HIS CAMPAIGN. >> HIS LIPS ARE MOVING, LAWRENCE, SO I’M SKEPTICAL OF WHAT’S COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH. WHEN WE SEE REPORTING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE DONALD TRUMP CRIME DU JOUR, IT TAKES ME BACK TO WHEN I WAS A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR AT THE DCU ATTORNEY’S OFFICE, WHEN I HAD A DEFENDANT, SOME OF THEM REMINDED ME OF DONALD TRUMP, WHO HAD COMMITTED SO MANY CRIMES, YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED, SOME OF THESE MEN, GENERALLY MEN, MY DEFENDANTS WERE, WOULD COMMIT, EIGHT, TEN, 12, 15 CRIMES. AND WHAT I HAD TO DO WAS FIGURE OUT WHICH WERE THE MOST IMPORTANT, WHICH WERE THE MOST READILY PROVABLE, WHICH SHOULD I GO AFTER FIRST, BECAUSE WE CAN’T LOSE SIGHT OF THE FACT THAT YOU CAN ONLY IMPRISON A MAN FOR BUT ONE LIFETIME. LAWRENCE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE, ON THE PUBLIC REPORTING, WHETHER IT’S THE CONSPIRACY TO COMMITTEE CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS WITH MICHAEL COHEN, WHETHER IT’S OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE TIMES TEN AS METICULOUSLY DOCUMENTED BY BOB MUELLER IN VOLUME 2 OF THE TRUMP/RUSSIA REPORT, WHETHER IT IS OBSTRUCTING CONGRESSIONAL INQUIRIES MY TELLING ALL OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OFFICIALS, DO NOT COMPLY WITH LAWFULLY ISSUED CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENAS, THAT’S A CRIME. A CRIME. THAT’S WITNESS TAMPERING. THAT’S WITNESS TAMPERING. MARIE I DON’T HAVE ANYOVANOVICH, ACTUALLY TESTIFYING TO CONGRESS. YOU HAVE IN MY OPINION, AS A 22-YEAR HOMICIDE PROSECUTOR, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER OR NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE OFFENCES BASED ON HIS HORRIBLE ABDICATION OF HIS RESPONSIBILITIES TO HANDLE THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC. YOU CAN ONLY CONFINE A MAN FOR BUT ONE LIFETIME.
