Killer Realizes He's Finally Been Caught Years Later

do you notice you probably died miserably here like a field somewhere with a couple guys she's logged out she was i mean if she's not super hot or something like that i don't pay attention i'm i'm shallow a little bit i'll lie i don't remember ever doing anything like that i figured this is about to make me have a panic attack like and then i'm literally feeling myself sweating and about to just start crying and passing out shoot me right now and i wouldn't give it to you my point right now though yeah go ahead you find it but you went out and lived your life yes i did now you're smart i'm stupid working right now i'm not smirking you were because that's hilarious none of this is hilarious this man is 27 year old daniel clay he's no stranger to the judicial system having been in and out of jail multiple times for crimes involving drugs larceny fraud and breaking and entering however this time the charge against him is far more serious as he's a suspect in the disappearance and murder of 22 year old chelsea brock looking poor chelsea you know what i'm saying look at that i know in fact can i can you please see about if you got your water yet i literally feel like i'm about to pass out on october 25th 2014 22 year old chelsea brock donned a purple wig and her homemade leaf motif dress to complete her ensemble is batman's evil villainous poison ivy she tells her mother she will return the following morning then sets off with her friend laura taylor from her hometown of maybe michigan to the rural community of french town township located approximately 10 miles away the plan was to meet additional friends and celebrate all hallows eve a little early at an outdoor halloween party at the party hundreds of celebrants were drinking and enjoying live music dressed as all manner of fantasy characters pop culture icons strange beasts and evil creatures little did chelsea know that this night she would encounter a real monster she and her friends met up and enjoyed the festivities eventually laura and chelsea's other friends were ready to leave the party but chelsea insisted on staying they tried to get her to take her phone and purse out of laura's car but she refused as a last resort her friend becky tried to take the items to chelsea but at that point she couldn't find her with no other options they eventually gave up and left chelsea continued to enjoy herself partying until the wee hours of the next morning drinking heavily in the chill night air at one point after midnight she stumbled into a post lacerating her nose but still she didn't let that stop her from having a good time around 3am she suddenly decided it was time to leave as she had no phone or ride she began to borrow phones from strangers to try to contact her friends in frustration she began to cry smearing her makeup a witness spoke to her by the party bonfire complimenting her on her costume he noticed that she was highly intoxicated and there was a man with her seemingly serving as her caretaker as they finished their conversation the man led chelsea toward the parking lot and out of sight that was the last time anyone saw her alive six months later on april 24 2015 john markin was transferring leftover dirt to his property from his lake michigan site development business to fill out space on his land for building a house he'd been working on the project for months but this day in particular took a disturbing and unforgettable turn one that would forever remain etched in his memory as one of his trucks dumped its load of dirt it pulled forward for the bulldozer to come through but became stuck as they struggled to free it they discovered to their horror a heavily decomposed body at their feet the legs were slightly bent and the body's head rested against a log sporting patches of what appeared to be blonde hair another nearly 10-foot long log was across the body cleanly cut on one end as if it had been intentionally placed over it when they recovered their wits the men called 9-1-1 and the monroe county sheriff's office began their investigation upon arrival they interviewed the men about the discovery then began to collect evidence among the items discovered were several pieces of duct tape a cigarette butt and a single fake green ivy leaf during the course of the medical examiner evaluation it was determined that the victim suffered many facial injuries including a broken jaw the cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head dental records confirmed her identity chelsea brock this was the end of a search that had begun the day following her disappearance when her mother reported her missing after questioning her family and friends local police located witnesses from the party and collected tips from their investigative hotline after interviewing the banned merchandise vendor who was believed to be the last person to see chelsea at the party the police created a composite sketch from his description of the man she was with at the bonfire circulating it in public only the month before the grisly discovery of her remains investigators responded to a report that a red american eagle shoe was found on the roadside approximately two miles from the party chelsea's family confirmed that the shoe belonged to her a few days into april her wig and leaf costume were discovered within an industrial building in flat rock nearly 10 miles from the party site well preserved by the building the costume itself had a rusty red stain in the chest area that appeared to be blood the shoulder and crotch straps were either torn or cut five months after the body was discovered in september investigators heard from john markin again he was bulldozing more dirt on his land when he discovered a red shoe the missing one to match the one investigators had previously recovered upon their arrival investigators also located a pair of inside out green tights partially unearthed by markin's bulldozer with this evidence in hand investigators intensified their search for the unknown assailant right away there were several leads chelsea's leotard costume contained dna other than her own and several shorter and darker hairs including one with a full root that they could process her wig contained a quantity of gray automotive fibers as well as chips of blue and green paint unfortunately the hair was processed and deemed to be non-human and the automotive fibers match those located in laura taylor's vehicle probably collected on the wig during the ride to the party the dna found on the leotard costume however was a match in the combined dna index system also known as codis it was a match to one daniel allen clay the majority of the following interrogation footage has never been seen before the footage has been analyzed by a qualified team including a licensed attorney and former criminal prosecutor a licensed clinical psychologist and a former licensed professional counselor with a master of science in clinical psychology you're about to witness two detectives employ some of the most impressive interrogation tactics we've ever seen when investigators sought out daniel clay as a suspect in the murder of chelsea brock they discovered he was already incarcerated for failure to pay child support he was arrested on july 22 2016 a year and three months after chelsea's body was found this is why he's already in a jumpsuit as the detectives lead him into the small interview chamber you want some water or something you're good you're fine give me a second i'll be with you actually i'm gonna go ask about your phone right now all right thank you daniel sits restlessly bobbing his head which may be a pacifying technique to help him relax his hands are also around his torso which generally is considered a protective position although some dismiss body language analysis is pseudoscience it's used by the fbi and cia during interrogations when the cia is interrogating an individual they look for clusters of three or more indicators that occur in either quick succession or all at once these indicators can be signs of discomfort or uncertainty in what the individual is stating rather than indicators of deception it's extremely important to note that you cannot detect deception through body language analysis alone the detectives are gone for nearly three minutes all right we're working on the phone all right all right the japanese what they do is they write their reports outside so i guess somebody was yeah the sergeant was he picked up my phone they arrested me and i said you know can you let me call my girlfriend tell her i'm going to jail for child support okay he said yeah well he called her then i asked if i got my phone back and the deputy that like put me in his car so what happened to you when you get to the jail okay and then we'll get it for you i mean that's easy no problem but i will for sure get your phone numbers for you because i was supposed to go get my kids today i got to call their moms and let them know you know okay i will for sure get your phone numbers for you okay the lead interrogator on this case is michael preedmore accompanied by a secondary detective brian sroka they work with daniel on his phone request because they want to start by building goodwill and rapport this also shows that they're willing to help him daniel clay yep so jefferson yeah you quit in is seven no is oh five i quit 07 was when i should have graduated because i was only in the 10th grade okay so you got your ged or your that was my real mom kicked me out really like the state made me go live there they said oh well you can go either to the youth center for like there's like seven months at that point until i turned 18 because you know i had no idea youth center or they said you can go live with your real mom who i've never met asking daniel about his education and other general questions about his life lets the detectives know how much effort they will need to put into helping him understand his miranda rights when the time comes and is part of the continuing process to establish a positive relationship building rapport is an important first step before implementing the read technique the suspect is likely nervous and on edge when in this situation and making them trust the interrogator will help getting them to talk and reduce the likelihood of them requesting an attorney rapport building includes discussing non-threatening topics or small talk to make the suspect feel more willing to start talking and open up the interrogator will employ active listening and seem interested in the topics the suspect discusses people tend to trust and like people more when they have things in common so the interrogator will try to find some common ground as well the interrogator may make jokes or seem light-hearted to ease the tension early on so they're willing to stay and talk rapport building is also useful to get a behavioral baseline which is a key requirement for reading a person later on as deviations from these behaviors are what signal stress and possibly deception i told you we're doing an investigation your name came up i need to talk to you because you're arrested i need to read you your rights okay so just understand you you read him right you understand right so and i'm not trying to be a little yeah i just got to make sure okay detective preedmore goes through each right individually and makes sure that daniel acknowledges his understanding verbally that way there's no way he can later claim that he didn't hear or understand any part of the process daniel signs the paper so investigators begin their interrogation so let me just start what i want to do is just get a little history just basic history um like where you live uh right now i'm staying in frenchtown villa okay i was what's your address i'm not even sure the address i just started was it where they picked you up yeah that's where they picked me up at all right when officers arrived at daniel's residence they knocked on the door for several minutes without an answer however they did notice that the blinds moved as though someone peeked out at them a short time later an officer reported that daniel was fleeing through the back door they had to pursue him and eventually cuff him on the ground the detective spent a few more minutes building rapport and learning about him asking about where he lives his ex-girlfriend and the child support case that led to his incarceration daniel mentions that despite falling behind on payments after losing his job he has a good relationship with his ex jessica pribble and recently saw his kids i understand maybe someday i cannot get a word for you no i'm going to spend 30 45 days i've been good i've actually been trying to stay out of trouble daniel mentions that he's trying to stay out of trouble yet ironically he's incarcerated over child support is a suspect in chelsea brooks homicide investigation and immediately after discusses another brush he's had with the law so this about that book bag that i was in here for a few weeks ago book bag okay no i guess not uh i was with my nephew wesley he took a book bag we ended up getting in trouble i spent two weeks in here and then they dropped the charger you know i heard about that yeah but that's not about okay that's a city we're we're with the county all right when daniel is told he's not in because of the book bag issue he begins to fidget he uncrosses his leg rubs his thighs with his hands then crosses his legs again showing much more bodily movement than just moments before these are body language indicators of trying to self-soothe in order to release a nervous energy so this is what it is all right okay we've had over actually 1 137 tips yeah as i said i've seen some stuff in the paper and stuff no and i mean it's been all over somebody that don't know who she is they've been living under a rock absolutely okay pretty much um and you came up in one of them tips okay a simple response like okay when he's told his name came up in one of the police tips is an unusual reaction for someone who is innocent as someone who was not involved would likely react with surprise or shock all right so our boss when he tells us that we gotta go out and we gotta make contact with everybody that comes up in a tip whether they're at the party not at the party we gotta talk to them detective preedmore wants daniel to believe that he is not a suspect and that they are simply following up on a random tip hopefully this will keep him at ease and encourage him to talk freely the truth is detectives don't have the time nor resources to interview everyone who comes up in a tip they need to at least have a fair inclination that the person is involved and likely some evidence that's why we're here talking i was at that party for two hours and went back to where i was staying up in carlton so you were at the party yeah i see my kid's mama actually therefore yeah okay and jessica priville yeah okay let me write this down you got a lot of girls in here i do have a lot of girls in my life so she was at the party i wasn't with her there she was with her new boyfriend at the time they just had just gotten together now they have a kid together and stuff so what time did you go to party about eight nine i was out of there about ten eleven okay so you went there eight or nine it was still there it was getting dark because it's october you know eight or nine okay and i don't i mean i understand that you're not going to remember everything because it's been a long time i'd say i probably showed up right as it got dark again probably only like two hours that i was there because i started drinking and then do you remember who the band was playing no i know it's like the bands playing they were ending as i was getting there so about eight or nine is when you got there yeah all right who did you go with uh what was it with i don't even remember i know frenchie was supposed to go with me but he didn't frenzy was supposed to go but yeah he didn't who's french matt hurst matt hurst yeah he was uh the buddy i was staying with him and then christine k would did you go with christine no i didn't go with any of them who did you the only person i seen was tyler i didn't go with anyone you went by yourself yeah okay daniel goes from being unsure who he attended the party with to confidently stating that he went alone this is an indication of how easily he can be deceptive and lie who did you go with uh what was it i didn't go with anyone you went by yourself yeah i seen tyler jessica i don't know i saw a lot of people because there were hundreds i was going to get tyler right home and then when i went to leave i was talking to my baby mama i hopped in the car i talked to her when you say baby mommy you mean yeah yeah because yeah do you have a baby mom yeah she was being pissy like because she followed me out to my car and was saying something to me and then she was just being busy when was this that she saw her as i was leaving okay look i've seen her the whole time i was pretty much hanging out with her though this is this is what i do with everybody okay all right relax i'm trying to remember i know it's a long time ago so it's about eight o'clock eight or nine it's been something were you dressed as a anything just just plain clothes you weren't like a peter pan or something the very last person to see chelsea at the party was logan matzel who was at the party selling band merchandise with his mother he claimed that at 3 am he talked to a very intoxicated chelsea about her costume at the bonfire and the memory remained with him because he's allergic to poison ivy represented by the leaves on her outfit with her was a man he thought might be her boyfriend because of how he was holding onto her and talking to her like he knew her he described this man as a white male with medium-length dark hair and a thin mustache and beard wearing black framed glasses this is the description police used to create the suspect's sketch when logan and chelsea finished talking he watched her and the man leave toward the parking lot but he left to clean his booth before he saw them get in a vehicle no i didn't see uh there wasn't there were plain clothes i do remember a girl there that was dressed up like alice in wonderland she was so hot daniel bringing up this other girl may be an attempt to lead detectives to believe that his interest was in this woman rather than chelsea you drove yourself yeah what did you go on uh my friend's car who's your friend uh christine chriswood i don't talk to her anymore she wasn't with christine it was just this chick i lived with christine i might actually have talisa's car that day man you know a lot of girls that's my so this is my favorite baby mama uh christine was just a [ __ ] guy tapping on the table when he speaks is known as using an illustrator it can be a sign of possible deception when someone's gestures don't match with what they're saying he taps twice then pauses then taps one more time which doesn't fit with natural punctuation points in a speech if someone is thinking something different than what they're saying the person's body may emphasize the thoughts rather than the words i might actually have to lisa's car that day man you know a lot of girls so okay well hold on let's let's keep you focused here all right the car pretty sure i had lisa's car talisa pretty china car was that ford fusion a ford fusion so you drove a ford fusion b silver ford fusion silver ford fusion what color or it is silver right yeah like you're you've got no oh it's newer uh oh wait something like that all right um you get there you park you get out you say you got a half a pint you start partying what'd you do just just wander around i mean mainly i spent most of time talking with uh jessica from heaven so okay party you're there you see jessica you said you hung out with jessica most of the time what was you drinking out from her uh fireball i remember that what was your pint that you brought vodka it's always on oh my gosh i'm surrounded how much vodka did you drink i only drink like the half point and then i drank you know a couple shots of uh fireball and stuff but like i started getting a little tipsy so you know what i'm a lie i drove drunk i mean what's your tipsy i mean i know what my tips i i don't control where you like i don't like like if i'm standing here like i'd be standing there like this i might you know wobble a little bit but you know i could still do this number and stuff like that so you still had your wheels you weren't laying down on the ground laying in your puke no i don't like to get drunk i think it's [ __ ] like if you get a buzz i smoke weed so to me like getting a buzz and relaxing is what i want to do i don't want to get stupid drunk so a half pint drink half pint i might have drank a pint total because i drink some of the fireball too we saw it we smoking weed at the party too i know a lot of people were kind of um i don't think i even smoked anything i think i smoked before i went there but like i don't like taking weed to parties and stuff because i've been pulled over so many times and got so many recharges like as it is now i don't even smoke weed unless i'm sitting at home and someone brings it to my house the lead detective makes a point of asking daniel how much he drank this is intentional because preedmore wants to ensure that later he cannot claim that he was too drunk to remember anything the detective jokes around with him intentionally so that daniel won't feel judged and can speak freely daniel seems to be comfortable with the officers swearing in front of them regularly and talking more as if they were friends rather than authority figures he even admits that he was drinking and driving that night you talked to a couple people but you know did you ever see nothing poison ivy like nothing i mean she probably would have stood out if you saw her yeah but it's also been two years i think i like i seem to remember like when this first started coming in the news and stuff that i remembered seeing her like that the leafy shirt thing yeah poison iron yeah it's pretty distinct yeah yeah i remember seeing that but like just seeing her at the party daniel says not that i know of instead of a firm no he may have used a vague phrase intentionally to make it easier for him to later change his mind and remember that he did see her i mean did you know like prior to not already not prior to like afterwards because it was like four days five days later i went to go pick up stuff okay and she's like do you know that my uh girl that i worked with you know come up missing blah blah blah so you never met her never met her at the party never seen her at work not at um yeah i did go into ogres a few times to see jessica but i don't remember seeing her there either you know okay okay i mean if she's not super hot or something like that i don't pay attention i'm i'm shallow a little bit i don't lie i understand no it's fine daniel reinforces the idea that he views women merely as objects as he claims he doesn't usually notice them unless they're super hot as he admits he's a shallow man and he has an inflated sense of himself this also seems to be an attempt to distance himself from chelsea along with his assertion that he never saw her so while you're at the party you don't ever remember seeing no never talked to her never did anything no um nothing at all um i left there and when uh when did you leave probably about an hour and a half two hours after i got there so that's when i got there it was right when it was getting dark and so eight or nine yeah okay i'm not sure what time it gets dark okay but like because i remember like literally it just just gotten dark because i was turning you know everybody had their lights on and stuff and it was getting a little hard to see and all that because we were pulling into the yard okay um we were pulling in like was it just just you were starting the cars you know okay all right and then like as i'm pulling in you know you got stopped by like i seen holly there was another person that worked security that's who i seen when i was leaving because i know most of the people that like work security i just can't think of who it was i seen holly and someone else as i was pulling out because i stopped and talked to him i mean it's all right you know tyler ellison i seen him tyler when i was leaving because he got mad because i wouldn't give him a ride okay because he had like four chicks with him and i was like dude i'm not taking you and four chicks somewhere just so i can get stuck with the ugly one nope i was just tyler ellison is the friend that daniel continuously uses as his alibi for being alone when leaving the party however when detectives interviewed him tyler's version of events differs significantly from daniel's he explained that he arrived at the party with a friend but when he was ready to leave he couldn't find her he saw daniel standing by himself just before the fire was lit tyler claimed that he knew daniel but only casually they weren't friends and didn't hang out together nonetheless he asked him for a ride and daniel agreed saying they would leave as soon as he finished his vodka while waiting for him to finish tyler walked around the party for a bit however when he came back daniel was gone so he had to call his friend jarrett to pick him up at this party you don't remember he never said like i feel like i remember seeing her like i said like i remember a few days later when i heard about it and everything i feel like i remember seeing her there but the detectives continue to build their bond with daniel playing along with his jokes and behaving as if they're just friends having a casual chat so he'll let down his guard meanwhile they confirm the information he has provided them checking to see if he will slip and change parts of his story it seems to be working after all a short time ago daniel was adamant that he'd never seen chelsea at the party i mean i could understand so so maybe possibly i understand you're drinking there's all kinds of people as i say like the only girl that really even sticks out to that at that party besides my baby mama was the chicken alice in wonderland pasta gotcha she's a big tall chick though i've heard i've heard stories i've heard somebody talk about her before before actually too yeah i agree with you pretty good looking right yeah at one point i literally picked her up on my shoulders and carried her then found out she had a boyfriend yeah you're not you're not the only one that's missing alice in wonderland that's that's what bumpy that's i'm pretty sure that's why i left because i was like dude i already [ __ ] it i've been sitting here 30 minutes she's been flirting with me doing shots with me you know talking to me and stuff all about me and that what's it what's she doing you're doing shots with her well she was drinking her own [ __ ] i think she had uh like i don't know i know she had something because i remember cheering her a couple times daniel's return to the alice in wonderland girl continues his attempt to shift focus away from chelsea but also establishes a potential motive that he may have taken his frustration out on her later that night i feel like i seen her that night because i remember talking to jessica about this i'm like yeah i think i remember what you're talking about but i don't like you never had any contact with her talk to her she was asking people for the phone [ __ ] to use the phone and [ __ ] really ask you to use yourself no so if you would have saw her it would have been at a distance just yeah if i i mean i could have walked right past her for all i know but it's been what like almost two years i understand but i i think you would remember talking to her yeah i was talking to her i don't i didn't talk to her i just remember the party because you know the whole thing that happened everyone remembers tonight daniel's hand gestures are getting larger and larger indicating that he's really working to try to convince the officers he's telling the truth individuals use gestures to get their point across and these large gestures are a departure from his much smaller gestures at the beginning of the conversation which shows that he's aware he needs to be believable here so that's i mean that's my main thing is just you may have seen her which is fine i mean hundreds of people saw her there yeah all right but if you had contact with her i need to know as far as i'd like to remember i don't think i even said a word to her i don't think i remember like even getting close to her i just feel like i remember seeing the poison ivy outfit and maybe thinking oh that's cool or something because there wasn't many people in costumes his feet and legs are more fidgety than previously and his right leg is also pointed out away from the room the feet can often give an indication as to where the individual is thinking about wanting to go so when you left at 10 o'clock where did you go from there back to where i was staying and uh i dropped lisa's car off and then went to uh goblins which is an americana okay so you left you dropped police's car off at pear yeah so you left the party and went up to parrot and from pear oh it's american you just did you go and i got a trailer or did you just drop the car off and go drop the car off talk to her from a minute left okay so you went in and talked and made contact with her what time do you think this was like probably like 11. because i didn't have her car for long i don't have a few hours all right so you go you drop the car off it's right around 11. you talk to her for a few minutes and then you leave there and go to americana yeah i had to drop me off in america who oh she got you off there yeah okay all right so she drops you off or who she dropped you off to christine's which is where i was staying at the time it was just this chick i say with my buddy matt another one yeah but i wasn't messing with this one she's an uglier chick she ended up like we stopped talking like christine the girl lets him stay at her house and he insults her further indication of how daniel feels about women so her body where we found her body was briar hill road you familiar with briar i know that it's in europe where chalice lives it's like back a couple miles back or something you ever been there no i mean i might have wrote down it like smoking or something but is there any information that you think that you that would help me not really i mean i i know some of the areas i was at the party but i don't remember like i feel like i remember seeing the shirt and i feel like i remember you know back then seeing it you know being like oh well i've seen it i think but that's about it i was like i mean hundreds of people saw her yeah you know i don't but was there anything suspicious seen her with anyone specifically or anything like that i don't remember you know okay she was never with you at any time you never met her prior to the party no i mean i i couldn't matter i could have met her at august okay with when i went up there to suggest like i never said she was pretty big on facebook uh no do you ever communicate with chelsea on facebook or text message or no because i even thought about i was like no any websites at all sometimes you want to like dating websites and talk about the people the only one i really use do you remember ever talking to chelsea and they're not gonna get one of those but not that i don't know i mean you can check my facebook and everything i'm 99.9 certain so i think i got one more question have you ever had sex with her no never no okay i don't even like i've never even flirted with her never talk to her never nothing nope not anything trust me i'm a man i remember every chick i've ever slept with okay for the most part and yeah all right the detectives are asking all of these specific questions to rule out any innocuous reasons for finding his dna on chelsea's body as this discovery was the reason they identified daniel as a suspect in the first place his denials of any chance or intimate encounters is very valuable for their interrogation the detectives then tell daniel they're going to take a short break he may be feeling relief now as the self-soothing head behavior from earlier has stopped he may be thinking he's managed to dodge a bullet and the conversation about chelsea is over that's the p has to be i got those numbers so all right here the detectives have come through with daniel's request which is an attempt to continue to build goodwill um i just got some follow-up questions okay um but do you need anything before we okay all right because i know i had to pee heart i had to pee so i have all right this is a drink today so okay all right the detectives watch suspects through the camera when they're alone because this can reveal important details since daniel stated that he needed to pee detective preedmore gives him the option to use the restroom it's interesting that daniel declines but perhaps he thought the interview was nearly over and planned to just wait until the end you know like uh facebook would you be do you have facebook yeah okay would you be willing to let me look into your facebook like what do you mean like go through my messages or whatever you get as long as i'm with you would there be any reason that your dna would are on her clothes or not in her hair that's my knowledge or anywhere on her body no okay the detectives are preparing to confront him with their evidence to check his responses to this information daniel's response here is significant because anyone who'd never had contact with the victim would more than likely give a more definitive negative response do you understand what dna is yes i understand what tell me what you therapy blood you know everybody is different but what about semen everybody's different it's dna yeah spit yeah dna yeah okay i just want to make sure you know what it sounds like so there's i'm not so smart it's not just blood okay well a lot of people and i'm not just i'm not calling you dumb at all yeah i just want you to understand and there's no reason any dna of yours should be on on her clothes not her hair or anything like that okay my next question to that we've asked everybody okay everybody okay if they would be willing to consent to a dna buckle swap yeah um they actually just did one for me like a month and a half ago well i mean i don't know where that went okay um this is specifically for this case yeah bring it up all right detective preedmore once more tries to allay daniel's suspicions that he is the main suspect by indicating he's having everyone provide dna as daniel points out his dna is on file from his prior arrest but they're more interested in discovering whether he is willing to provide dna or not so i'd i'll ask him to go and get the order he has it right here so goes over his rights then administers the dna test you may be wondering why exactly the investigators collected another dna sample from daniel in addition to wanting to see daniel's reaction to being asked and if he would agree to it they also wanted to hold their cards until he already told a story that couldn't be explained away when dna evidence was presented to him basically trapping him in his lies they wanted to make him believe they didn't have that evidence until later all right so i know we talked about a lot daniel okay um and i know it's been a while all right and i've been straight up with you okay straight up i mean i'm not i'm not hiding when i'm you know yeah all right and i i hope that you've been straight up with me all right trust me but there's there's some other information that's out there all right that i've asked and i think um it's not been the whole truth okay like well okay um and when we're talking about the whole truth we're talking about content okay all right daniel goes from making small movements like lightly bouncing his foot to suddenly freezing when confronted about how he is not giving them the whole truth this is a red flag that could possibly indicate that the detectives are on to something the freeze response is a survival instinct that may emerge when a person feels threatened if someone is making a repetitive movement like bouncing their foot and then they suddenly stop when they're asked the question or presented with new information this is a sign that their stress level has increased a deceptive person may stop moving in an attempt to blend in and not call attention to themselves much like an animal may freeze when they sense a predator is hunting them i have reason to believe i have information that you had contact with like okay at that party or something yes i might have seen it i don't remember but when i say remember i clarified you might have seen her i mean i said i might have seen when i say contact i mean physical contact oh no okay notice here how his head is shaking no in the middle of the yes head shake this is a subtle sign of what he's really thinking and is called incongruent body language gestures for emphasis should align with the words they're supposed to be emphasizing if someone is shaking their head no while they're verbally saying yes that's a red flag that their brain is thinking one thing and choosing to say another out loud what if i told you that your dna was on her i don't know how my dna got on it okay like no way no nothing no daniel repeating no way nothing no how is a way to try and convince the detectives that he's telling the truth when someone repeats something the average honest person tends to believe it the more they hear it what if i told you that her dna or your dna was on her and why did you just take my dna again they don't have to have my dna from before so but i don't know i i'm not listen yeah listen daniel i am not trying to trick you i'm looking you straight at your face all right i will actually show you all right what i have from the crime lab okay all right and i'm telling you that your dna is on there i have no idea how so we need to figure out how it got there i have no idea nobody can i mean that just doesn't show up at this point detective preedmore has begun to use the reed method a technique designed to use positive confrontation to explore inconsistencies by confronting daniel with the dna results which they had before they even brought him into the interrogation room preed morris calling out his lies he continues to deny any involvement until the detective confronts him with new information we need to right here it needs to happen i have no idea i no it's it's fine daniel is holding both of his hands palm up known as a rotatory display often when a person shows their palms they're asking that you accept them and or what they're saying the palm up position indicates that the person lacks confidence in what they're saying and they're pleading with you to believe them when someone makes a declarative statement their body language will likely show confidence if that statement is true you know i don't know like well it freaks me out too it really truly honestly does it freaks me out okay and i but i need to know all right no her dna was found on her know what they and it you you had to be with her you know why because one in kazillion it's a one and gazillion all right that your dna was on her like what kind of dna like a hair or something dna like like fluid dna i have no idea okay i really do not have you believe me if that's what you're saying i guess daniel probes for information here he may be trying to find out how much the detectives know before revealing anything however the detectives use a strategy of providing their evidence in small tidbits so they can counteract suspect lies i'm asking do you believe i guess yeah okay i am not tricking you there is nothing i am straight up with no idea how many yeah so i need to know all right did you and you're the ladies man if something happens something happened now hear me out okay you know know everything about her everything and i know she was promiscuous your dna is on her i have no idea how preedmore deploys a tactic appealing to daniel's notion that he is a ladies man and sleeps with so many women that he might not remember this particular encounter this provides daniel with an opening while also suggesting that chelsea may have been the instigator to try and make him feel comfortable enough to make admissions i really do not know how so at some time you came in contact with her i don't know could it be like spit or something or is it like semen dna it's it's not spit like because i don't i'm not quite sure how your spit would be on her if you weren't i don't know i'm so sad i could have walked by her talking or something but we're not talking about a brush it's not a brush all right i would already told you that that is not no your dna was on her i have no idea if my dna is not here then i think i need a lawyer but i have no idea how my dna is not here well i don't i mean i'm just trying to confirm you know that we we got your dna and i'm asking you how it got there i have no idea and i'm not i am not tricking you okay you have no idea like you just you just mentioned the lawyer okay yeah like if my daughter is that i'm obviously getting charged with some or something i don't know what when you when you talk about a lawyer all right i gotta stop i can't talk to you about anything anymore detective preedmore has to stop daniel here because once a suspect requests a lawyer he's unable to continue the conversation any longer because any information they learn at this point would be considered inadmissible in court their main goal now is to convince daniel to re-waive his right to a lawyer because once an attorney arrives the interview is likely over realizing now that he's an actual suspect rather than just a tip detectives are acting upon daniel begins to panic i'll listen to talk for now i don't know are you sure yeah i couldn't write this mix i didn't all right when you mention lawyer to me i got to stop i can't talk to you all right i have to confirm that you do not want an attorney to talk with you why i talk to you about it i want an attorney yet okay so you do not want an attorney right now while we're talking about this guy i'm fine i want to know what's the dna i'm going to show you okay but you mentioned attorney too man i'm trying i'm not supposed to talk anymore about it okay but i want to for the first time since this began daniel has his feet crossed at the ankles which may be a sign that he's feeling nervous about what the detective is about to show him particularly for males suddenly interlocking the ankles is often a sign that the person is feeling uncomfortable or stressed as well his hands clutched in his lap protecting the jewels this is a highly protective stance for him to take and indicates a significant increase in anxiety as his fight flight freeze mode intensifies but i have to have your approval your permission to talk further without your attorney yes all right and you are clear yes okay i want to know what's you see your name right here okay this is the dna specimen and this is your name your specimen matched up to dna on hers costume okay you mentioned to me about getting a sample all right you're correct you just gave us one all right but you mentioned earlier about submitting a sample yeah and i'm being straight up with you when you submit that sample it gets tested for everything okay yeah that's what happened okay so that's why the cops come out so i had to look for me so i'm here all right okay it's time if you had contact but you did you did not because your dna was on her costume you did have contact with her another aspect of the read technique is to lower a suspect's confidence by making them aware that the detectives do not believe the answers they're giving in an attempt to stop or prevent future denials and now we're gonna go and we're gonna talk about family okay okay we're gonna talk about our children okay your children okay my children his children he has a the shift and topic to family is an intentional plan to appeal to daniel's morality as not only does he have children but the victim has family members that are suffering due to her loss all right and this comes up and you tell me that no you've never had any contact with her okay but your dna was on her stuff i don't know okay but i know i'm just telling you it was there and listen to me you know how all right only you know hold on only you know how all right but ultimately it's up to you to tell your children okay i do not want your children wondering what their dad did nothing i'm just telling you i know because it's out there it's going to be out there so much speculation okay as to what happened someday we can only hold stuff for so long and then the media can foyer i know okay so when they foy you this and they find that daniel clay's dna was on her stuff all right i mean you know how people are yeah they're gonna want to hang you down here i know okay but that's where you can stop that the inclusion of the media aspect is preedmore's attempt to instill some fear into daniel and get him to tell his version of the truth before the media writes the story for him you can stop that and tell me what happened how your dna got on her i really don't you had contact with her no you did i'm telling you dad i'm not i'm not guessing i'm not making anything up all right you came in contact with her did you kill her i've you never heard me say you killed her no i did not never i don't know anything to that girl but she came in contact with her at the party i might have i didn't do anything so i mean i couldn't like if let's add something about me and i touched her somehow or something okay so hold on people often use exaggerated arm gestures and body movements when lying in an attempt to appear more believable similar to what daniel is doing here detective preedmore then tells him what he believes happened based on the evidence demonstrating that they already know more or less what happened to make daniel lose confidence with his denials right so this is this is what i think happened leaving by myself i showed up by myself everything can i can i tell you what i think have sure all right just hear me out okay it's not gonna hurt anything right yeah that's okay and i've looked into it i mean we've invested we've been investigating this for a long time okay um and i'm gonna tell you it's no it's no surprise it's no coincidence it's not it's not a brush all right your dna was on her stuff but hear me out all right maybe and just hear me out you left party by yourself i'm not disputing that at all okay but i think possibly maybe you picked her up hear me out no and how promiscuous she was and she had been drinking you had been drinking you're the ladies man you told me yourself all right so you see her and i know how promiscuous she was all right does she well i'm telling you yeah i know you don't know but i'm telling you daniel shifts his feet likely an anchor point movement indicating he's feeling uncomfortable when someone is sitting in a chair there are three anchors that are keeping them in that position the feet back and buttocks if a suspect moves any of these body parts it may indicate that they're feeling anxious and trying to dissipate that energy through movement by describing chelsea as promiscuous the detective is trying to take the blame off of daniel so that he will admit to having physical contact with her it will be easier for him to admit the truth if he feels like the detectives are on his side and that chelsea can be blamed for part of what happened this is likely not the detective's real belief at all but is instead a strategy to get the truth i think you two have all right i'm telling you i think you two had but her death i don't know if that was a con i don't know if that was you or someone else the detective is intentionally separating the encounter from the murder to see if he can get daniel to admit to sleeping with chelsea since confessing to intercourse with her does not mean an admission to killing her he hopes daniel will take the bait as it will later prove easier to pin the murder on him as well all right i don't know all right i want to know the truth but i first need to know the truth how your dna got it did you and her have no all right you got to be truthful with you if you want me to help you all right i i've got to be hundred percent truthful with me i didn't do anything with it more happened that night than you're telling us we know that we know that you know that okay we won't know i don't have no idea how that got there i really don't i'm telling you this i do not to my knowledge remember ever once more daniel responds with not to my knowledge indicating deception but you got let me stop you real quick daniel daniel look at me to my knowledge is not a definition okay well like unless i don't remember right well that could be it i don't really get that but that's why i asked you how [ __ ] up were you i was you know okay i was drunk i'm not drunk drunk i was still i remember most of the night after i left like i remember driving home safe i didn't crash nothing so i had to be sober enough to do that could you have had sex with her and thought it was somebody else not too much is that a possibility that's my knowledge unless it's a possibility yeah it could have your dna is on her is there a possibility i mean there's possibilities that you had with her i there is a possibility okay so but that possibility i was [ __ ] up at that party i remember getting there getting [ __ ] up being there for a couple hours i remember getting in that car and leaving listen i remember this marks a new shift in the interrogation as for the first time daniel admits the possibility that he might have hooked up with chelsea in a situation where he was under the influence or otherwise mentally impaired you left that party alone but did not pick anyone up at that party you possibly there's a possibility you could have with her i mean if i was deaf i don't know what okay but i don't remember having sister i remember doing a lot of stupid party i know i had that day twice but i don't think that there was a girl named nicole with a girl named daniel daniel has taken the bait changing his story to fit the scenario detective preedmore is selling after his many denials he now suggests that he was terribly drunk at the party and definitely had slept with someone that it could have been with chelsea which explains how his dna could have gotten on her costume yeah okay what car fleece's okay it wasn't somebody else's car there were hundreds of cars so it was talisa's car yeah the police interviewed to lisa talisa orcette the ex-girlfriend and roommate who daniel claimed lent her the silver ford fusion he allegedly drove to the party she explained that she met daniel on the myspace website and began dating in 2009. daniel moved in with her in early 2010 and lived with her off and on until she became pregnant in early 2011 during which time his residence with her became more permanent in september of 2014 they broke up and talisa kicked him out of her house during which time he moved in with christine k wood and gregory crutchfield talisa allowed daniel to borrow her car only one time and he damaged her door so she states that there was absolutely no way that he was driving her car on the night of chelsea's murder another of daniel's roommates matthew hurst confirmed that daniel always drove christine's vehicle which was a green four-door mitsubishi in fact when interviewed christine claims that while she stayed home rather than attending the party she did let daniel borrow her vehicle that specific night do you think where that's where that dna came i mean it could be but i didn't i don't remember like her being in a costume like that i remember it was just a girl in a t-shirt or something i just waited yeah i'm saying it could be i remember you know but she wasn't blonde she had uh dark hair she was wearing a wig oh i didn't know that yeah okay well it was a darker chick but i hope she's fairly certain it wasn't her okay and when i left i left alone i didn't take her with me or nothing i'm just trying to recount when you guys first brought me in here and i started thinking about it like i don't remember what that i know i was stupid i've always wondered if it could have been her or not and then you guys called me in here freaked me out i didn't want to send you to somebody and then find out it's her and then you know she disappeared and yeah i know i left alone i know i didn't do anything i know all i know that i remember how it was is the girl said you're cute i said no you're cute and she was really giggled and i just grabbed her up started making out with her next thing you know i'm in my car left yeah but i after having with her if that's who i had that's who you had split all right there's no denying it okay there's no discounting it all right you had a get to the car okay okay okay we're at at the party did you see her where did she come up and say hey you're right right by the fire right by i was talking i just got done talking to desk though what time was this right before i left so probably about 9 30 to 10 30. i remember talking to jessica and then tyler was trying to get me to play wingman and i'm like no dude so i hurried up and hopped in the car and pulled out because he seen me literally standing like five feet from me and goes dude you're in a car by yourself you can't take us home okay and i'm like no i'm not taking you on four chicks somewhere despite his claims that he was so drunk that he couldn't even be sure that he had intercourse with chelsea daniel suddenly seems to have a great recollection of a lot of specific details about the intimate encounter including other events at the party especially those involving his ex jessica and friend tyler around the time when he claims he left alone so the thing is daniel is you had sorry which is not bad it's it's not it's a bad coincidence but it's one hell of a coincidence but it's not bad you said she jumped on you hey you're hot and she's like no you're cute and you two went to the car pretty much yeah because i was aggravated i couldn't get with the chick with alice in one million okay daniel attempts to minimize his interest in chelsea by suggesting that he only had intercourse with her because he was unable to get with the alice and wonderland girl however this makes it possible that he took his frustrations out on her you know the thing daniel i just i i'm trying to believe you i know i'm really trying that i don't think about it i'm being honest i'm trying to believe i'm not i'm trying to believe you i really truly am okay um but it's really tough for me to believe okay all right it truly is and i'm being honest with you yeah i'm not i'm speaking to you man-to-man okay there's a lot of people that's that party i know but remember out of all of them people you're i know dna is that that makes me look so okay pretty much my life so no matter what i say it's never but i need i yes it does matter daniel's acknowledgement that it looks terrible for him and that anything he says at this point probably won't matter is not only a sign of defeat but possibly a cop-out to stop having to account for his previous lies the thing is is now all right knowing all right and hear me out what kind of vehicle it is all right what would i tell you if that description of that vehicle was seen up on briarhill that night i i'm just asking what would what would you say i'd be like okay then because i didn't drive it anywhere but from that party to but what i mean watch his hands here when he uses the table to emphasize they don't match his words at all there's a significant delay between what he says and the movement which indicates a difference between what is going on in his head and what's coming out of his mouth it might not even have been her vehicle to be honest it could have been christine's vehicle that i had tonight but i feel like it was talisa's notice that when the detective offers the hypothetical situation where talisa's vehicle might have been spotted near briar road daniel begins to scramble changing his story once more to suggest that it may have been his friend christine's car instead this shifting of his established story to avoid putting himself at risk is another example of his pattern of lies listen i'm not trying to i know i'm not trying to say i need to know what this is two years ago you know i'm saying daniel makes another anchor point movement as he readjusts in his chair the pressure is building and he's likely feeling very tense i left by myself i remember it you told me yourself you drove down briar hill which one's brian hill the one out there off of newburgh around the corner where you would go with a small oh yeah during the day after work i'd smoke i never went down that road that night yes you did no i did not no i did not no no not my baby daniel this girl with at the party okay what was she wearing for the first time in a long while detective sroka speaks up he is confrontational by design setting himself up in a bad cop situation making accusations toward daniel which establishes detective preedmore as the good cop i just remember like a tight pants and a t-shirt or something i thought okay um it might have been the leafs thing but i don't remember like you think you would remember that if it was a leaf if she had a leaf costume i was wasted okay i just remembered that girl girl said hey let's you know and then the girl that you go did did she take her own clothes off did you take them off how'd that go she took them off oh she took her pants off okay all right i have a couple issues with the uh with that i guess um you know number one i think i think you're off on your time frame a little bit too okay i think you're at the party later and you're saying you work i could have been a little late it was later though let me tell you the crime lab is telling the costume was torn okay that wasn't by me though it was torn off that was not my but the thing is the thing is it's both on the castle i left by myself 100 sure he's adding an extra qualifier here another red flag for an increase in anxiety and potential deception it's interesting that he claims to be so wasted he wasn't sure who he had intercourse with but he's able to be 100 sure he left by himself he's also using a lot of intense hand motions here really trying to emphasize his point to the detective and make himself as believable as possible no she was in [Applause] when the two detectives converge on daniel applying pressure he begins to use exaggerated gestures again trying to make himself seem convincing i'm gonna at some point the vehicle with you yeah in the back seat not the trunk not the same about the party no after you left the parking lot at one point no yes she was no she was not she was no she was not and when you know about that see the problem is daniel was we started off on the wrong foot i know i should know we really said i should have i mean i didn't think it was her because it was dark hair i didn't know she had gone but we started off then you know and then i but i um you know i gotta confront you you know what i mean that's i gotta and i don't wanna have to do that the detectives dole out one bit of evidence at a time to not only leave daniel wondering what else they may know that they haven't yet told but to keep him on his toes and catch him and lie since they haven't provided him with all the information the thing is is i think you're telling me part of the truth i'm telling you the whole truth daniel it's not out it's not out of the ordinary for you to drive out there because that's where you live yeah but i wouldn't all right there's no spots with houses all along that road and you know i'd have done it somewhere out there that's a nice quiet place to tuck away at the railroad tracks what railroad tracks are you talking about the ones on the dirt road right there by the what road are you talking about i'm talking about the road that's on telegraph is that where she was from let me hold on a minute let me go get a map and i want to show you exactly okay because i thought she was found over by that school give me a second i'll get a map and i want to confirm exactly where it was at okay relax left alone daniel sits still and focused his mind undoubtedly racing as he tries to figure out how to explain his actions without implicating himself further rian lazot was matthew hurst girlfriend and also stayed in the residence when daniel was there in an interview she recalled daniel talking about a girl who'd gone missing from the party possibly calling chelsea by name she didn't believe that this information had been released into the media at the time in fact chelsea's mother didn't even realize that she was missing until 8 30 pm that night and didn't report her missing until the following day october 27 2014 on that day daniel shared a link on his facebook about chelsea's disappearance at the party over the course of the next few days listed under events on daniel's facebook page detectives found two different planned searches to locate chelsea early the next month on november 19 2014 they discovered a fine chelsea event on daniel's facebook that very day daniel posted a photograph saying i already know i'm going to hell at this point it's really go big or go home the monroe news periodically appeared on his facebook as well which is significant because it happened only on days where larger events and her investigation occurred so this is um sprite over here yeah this is briar hill this is newberg right yep this is the school okay see i've been my newborn that's why i bust my uvs i don't really come down this is briar hill okay the use of a map creates a stronger case as it's harder for daniel to say that he misunderstood anything about the relevant locations later i just wanted to confirm and this is the railroad tracks and this is the pond back here okay okay so that's where i've never been [Music] all right i want to talk to you okay all right i know we're all getting tired but i want to talk to you all right stressing so this is the thing the dna okay i just went and confirmed okay and i'm telling you tony exactly i'm not tricking that's fine i'm not cleaning mine i'm not saying anything i did say something where i was wrong okay it was not semen the dna it was skin all right from force from terror your dna cells were on where her crotch was torn and where her top was torn now detective preedmore transitions to the idea of violence okay so that's where your dna was i'm past that okay all right i know that you tore that i didn't know i we're passing it off or whatever yeah okay so but it was torn you had to tear it i didn't tell you this is where it's time something happened when you left with her listen when you left did not leave it there either something happened where it was intentional unintentional accidental as detective preet moore wants daniel to admit he was responsible for her death in any way possible the easiest way is to suggest it was an accident once daniel acknowledges this the door is open for him to pursue the possibility of murder providing options is another component of the read technique which urges him to accept the option that provides the least moral or legal culpability now is the time for you to tell us what happened because are you that monster murderer no did you have intention but it just it just got it just slipped it got out of control no i didn't do that to her or was it an accident i had this with a girl that's it but then you have your dna from where the tears are on her costume and i'm going to tell you one thing that nobody knows about except us and her mother is that she had brittle bone disease brittle bone disease is a simple touch a tap where it breaks a bone i break myself okay so that's what happened it was an accident something happened where it was an accident telling him that chelsea had brittle bone disease provides daniel another way out by making her death seem like an understandable and easy to accomplish accident something happened with you and she thought that's wrong okay but there an accident happened an accident happened daniel can i get a cigarette an accident happen as detective preedmore becomes more confrontational daniel is clearly stressed out as he goes for his water bottle and even asked the detective if he can have a cigarette okay an accident happened and it was an ocean moment and it was gone it was done and you can't we can't bring it back we can't bring it back all we can do is get closure from here and move on okay we're past all that daniel's agreement here seems to be an indication that he's getting close to admitting the truth was it an accident it wasn't murder you didn't intend to kill her you did not intend to kill her you did not intend to kill her excuse me you did not intend to kill her i am on your side 100 with that daniel look at me i am on your side with that daniel scratches his head which may be an adapter sign that he's trying to relieve some stress adapters can take many forms scratching tapping grooming or fidgeting the purpose of all these different behaviors is to release nervous energy we need to know i know we need to know so when your name comes out there and everybody's asking me don't matter anymore i don't want people to think you're that murderer because i know you're not i know that i know you're as soon as it comes out daniel this is not who you are i can tell you i could tell you right now this is exactly hypothetically i can tell you that she did get hurt and i left her out there i'm still going to jail for the rest of my life but you're not that murderer no you're not going to tell me absolutely look at me daniel look at me look at me the pressure is building for daniel in his observation that no matter what happens at this point he's going to jail for the rest of his life maybe an attempt to get reassurance from the detectives that this is not the case instead as the investigators detect the cracks in daniel's temperament they apply even more stress look at me i didn't do anything you had no idea daniel i was wasted you had no intent to hurt her all right it takes intent to go the rest of your life tonight here's the bathroom you had no intent daniel's request to use the restroom is an attempt to escape to get a break from the intensity and try to regroup and the detectives intentionally ignore him because they feel like they're close to getting him to break you're not the murderer i know i didn't we know anything i just had an accident happen something happened all right i can't fault you for an accident you can't fault yourself foreign absolutely not it matters listen daniel it matters it's absolutely matters yes it does we need to i don't know okay first off can i please go to the bathroom is it possible for me to get a cigarette because i'm stressed out like i will get you a cigarette listen daniel i'll get you a cigarette i'll get you to go to bathroom okay thank you but hold on let's pee let's pee we're gonna get a cigarette we're gonna come back thank you very much detective stroka takes initiative here as detective preetmore attempts to bargain with daniel providing the bathroom and a cigarette for more information this is a wise decision even though it's clearly not what the lead detective had in mind however his partner realizes that if they continue down that avenue bargaining in that way could be viewed as a form of coercion which could damage their case instead giving daniel what he needs even breaking the rules to provide him a cigarette will establish more good will in a sense that the detectives are willing to bend the rules for him hopefully in return he will provide more [Music] my partner's information to get a cigarette for you thank you um something here from brian hill road okay it was never on brian i never heard listen i i'm telling you i'm not around here okay i i'm being straight up with you i'm being man-to-man with you okay thank you i can get my in a ringer and it's not funny i could lose my job over this i know okay very much for god's sakes they don't even let people smoke in bars let alone the sheriff's office interviews don't they go on the roof and smoke that's why the ceos go well i don't know what they do but i know they don't smoke inside an interview thank you very much sir driving home the point that he's risking his job by providing daniel with cigarettes detective preedmore is encouraging daniel indirectly to repay him with information and i have a lawyer right here to speak while you're here today listen i don't do it right now because i can ask a lawyer about my rights because i've already told you your rights i'm okay i know i want to ask lawyer what i should you know be saying here now instead daniel brings up his attorney again beginning the whole process of the detectives having to get him to waive his miranda rights so they don't have to stop the interrogation okay so you want an attorney yeah if i can have one well i know i can't get an attorney for you i can't do that i'd have to wait all right this is it we're done after this all right so if you want me to be your mouth out there on the street i will if you want to leave me hanging and guessing and speculating that's another thing since defense attorneys frequently have to support suspects after hours detective preedmore's implication that he cannot get one this late in the day is a lie he gambles by stating that they are done and he can no longer help hoping that will convince daniel to wave his lawyer again if you want an attorney we'll we'll be done with this this is your chance to talk to us you make the decision if it's gonna be homicide first degree it's gonna be second degree manslaughter that that's that comes from you i know the bad cop ploy of bringing up potential charges is also designed to encourage daniel to talk by implying that his cooperation may lessen the severity of his and ask her what she charges so this you're my mom that's my professional legal opinion okay well i don't know i mean if i could have my phone can at least call her before i would not tell you we'll never know and tell you i'd like to call your mom after we're done i've already told you i would do that all right the detective's refusing daniel's call to his mother is an attempt to keep anyone from telling him that he should lawyer up since he's not a minor they don't have to allow a consultation with a parent we're right here we're talking when we're done we're done okay all right so it's your choice to talk to me with attorney present or you can continue talking to me and waive your rights his response is basically true because if daniel does see counsel he will suggest that daniel not cooperate with the detectives so they will be done speaking i have a lot of stuff i can i want to tell you i don't know i don't want an attorney i'm still listening i'm trying to listen to what you got so it's your choice but you've got to clarify that you do i don't know i don't want to turn you out okay look me right in my eyes as mike mike i was just asking about what would be if i asked for an attorney you do not want an attorney i did not want to join you because i will stop right now and you can have an attorney okay i just wanted to know what would happen if i asked for an attorney well you i'm gonna stop talking to you the detective's invitation for daniel to call him by mike his first name brings their relationship to a more personal level which encourages trust it's surprising that daniel once more waives his rights especially because he has been in and out of prison regularly and should know never to talk to an officer without the advice of counsel okay so your word before we were talking about you you said i'm gonna go to prison for the rest of my life no matter what that's okay there's a difference between a tent i know things like that and that's what we need to know right now okay it wasn't did you intentionally no i did not intentionally hurt her okay then we need to know what happened okay there's a big there's a baby and she sat there and then she's like all right well let's go because we had there then we left okay somewhere else where where's somebody she did like leave and i seen her as i was pulling out she's like i'm about to walk i'm about to walk so tired of this i'm like hop in we'll go i freaked out i was wasted daniel's story has changed many times since the interrogation began now he finally admits that he did have contact with chelsea after the party when his most consistent denial throughout the investigation has been that he left alone and never saw her again furthermore he admits to having intercourse again after he picked her up okay so hold on let's stop now this you feel like a lot of just went off your chest don't you yeah because it's something that is something that eats you up all right but you're going to move on from here you're good yeah this is my life just by telling you that i've lost my kids i've lost my family i've lost my girlfriend daniel listen to me the investigator puts his hand on daniel's knee here a gesture of support and encouragement even though he knows this isn't the whole story he praises daniel for manning up and they talk about how good it feels to get the truth out at last you never told anybody besides us never question you about any friends say hey do you have a moment jessica asked me about it like oh you know the girl i worked with you know coming missing and i like had a mini heart attack but besides that but she never told anybody but us no how did you feel when you you see on the news you know every time for the month after it happened i was really bad i started getting a little better and then i went out on a big drug binge all kinds of drugs and um is there anything i can get you right now unless you can get my phone so i can call my mom we'll do that at least because i know the phones aren't even working downstairs i'd like to at least be able to call my mom and my girlfriend in this world give me a few minutes to tell her you know i'm going to jail for a long time at least you know i'll be able to tell her man-to-man despite the severity of the situation daniel seems unemotional even when discussing telling his mom and girlfriend he's going to jail for a long time the detective leaves the room but when he returns he has an update for daniel speaking of her mom and your phone calls all right i'm going to keep my end of the promise thank you very much but this is what's gonna happen okay and this is respect for the mom her mom okay we're not i'm not gonna let you call your mom until we go out and talk to her mom okay then i will come back and i will get you out and let you make your phone calls okay thank you but i cannot make the ch i cannot take the chance of something happening you're not people talking about that if i put this out can i have it when i come back hey no we got to do it now okay the detectives leave but bring daniel pizza since he missed dinner [Applause] daniel leaves with the detective so they can make the phone call to the victim's mother and inform her of daniel's confession while they do this daniel will be placed in a cell before he's allowed to make the personal calls he requested he continues to express only concern about himself rather than anyone else affected through his actions of course detective preedmore reviewed the recorded phone calls one call was to his current girlfriend kelly richter during that conversation daniel admitted to her that he killed chelsea saying that during intercourse he choked her and accidentally broke something in her neck he then explains that he ditched her because he freaked out and things blew out of proportion he made a similar call to a woman named nikki chisholm telling her that he was drunk as when he killed chelsea daniel was subsequently arrested for the death of chelsea brock but one huge mystery remains what happened that night well the answer is both twisted and disturbing back in the interrogation room for a follow-up interview daniel is demonstrating signs of anxiety as he awaits the sergeant's arrival his legs are shaking and he seems to be experiencing shortness of breath however when the officer does arrive he once more shows his dual nature by quickly composing himself good is it dan or daniel daniel don't matter all right uh we met the other day i don't know if you remember the surgeon explains that since he's now been officially arrested the rules have changed and he must remain cuffed to begin the rapport building process he does agree to loosen the cuffs for daniel there i i think there's a sense of relief um you know because i really want to tell them just not knowing you know so but they had some questions and i had some questions you know nothing just just like last time we don't jump around and scream i think the detectives treated you pretty good that's it they were very nice you know they came a couple cigarettes pizza stuff i don't have any stickers for you i can try to find it the happiest man because i've been sitting there i haven't slept since friday pretty much just like in the previous interrogation the sergeant is cordial and explains he just wants as much information as possible for the victim's family his goal is to try to fill in the few missing blanks in the investigation did you follow the news when no i like because every time i'd see something about it i'd start freaking out yeah and i and we obviously you knew this was coming we talked to some ex-girlfriends and stuff um and and you know they you know you know told some things like good ones erica you know and she did did some of them ever ask you like what happened or no i mean erica like like i talked to her like i talked to her that night when i was in here on the phone i called her yeah i told her what happened she's like i never would expect that out of you by the bottom like no i mean it's no i've never really told anyone anything all right well like i said you know we've obviously been working all weekend and and i appreciate you being you know i i almost getting down there freaking out over everything i almost get the sense though that it seems to be like a little bit of a relief like i've i didn't mean to do it i feel horrible every day i think about it it's like you know if that was my daughter there was times where i literally wanted to just message that chick on facebook her mom and be like i'm so sorry yeah i don't know what else to say to her you know it's like i don't want to spend the next 10 20 30 years of my life in prison for this i'm never going to see i'm not gonna see my kids graduate i'm not gonna get to watch them grow up i've done so much to ruin my life and i do feel better about that it's finally out i don't have to live with it anymore while daniel may be starting to feel some remorse for chelsea's family he immediately turns the focus to how his actions have affected his own life showing his selfishness like i've never done anything that's wrong never nothing even close some weed or gotten a few fights or you know i ran from the cops in december of 2014 for like 50 feet when they went to arrest me and then i stopped because i realized i wasn't getting nowhere at night my brain kicked in you realize they were faster it wasn't even that it's just i was i was out running the cop yeah i would have made it and then i stopped i'm like look i'm just done i'm stunned well i i know you i i wanted to i wanted to kind of go back through um that night the sergeant has daniel go through the story again and he and detective stroka search for inconsistencies they reached the point in the story where daniel describes choking chelsea in the car she moved underneath me and choked me choking her and then she went limp and i know it wasn't that long that i was choking her couldn't have been more than 20-30 seconds and i wasn't doing it extremely forceful to my knowledge like because i've had other girlfriends like to be children as stated earlier when someone makes a declarative statement like this their body language should indicate confidence because they're speaking the truth however daniel's palms are up this low confidence body language is highly suspect and a red flag so but when you when you choke the girl before your girlfriend before did was there ever any time where there was a problem where somebody passed out or somebody like once lyric passed out i mean when max was like four or five years ago what's her name four years ago lyric oh it's been a few years this would be back and forth so she passed out but i mean did she start to pass out she was on top of me when i was joking and that's when i you know first was starting to do stuff like that when officers interviewed daniel's ex-girlfriend erica rafko she explained that during intimacy with clay he would often choke her while she did like when he did so frequently it was too hard and she had to tap him repeatedly to get him to stop she said she didn't feel safe around him because he would sometimes hold her down with a hand around her neck once during intercourse daniel had his hand on her upper chest area and applied such force that he broke her rib another time she asked him to hurt her but he did so with such ferocity pounding her ribs that she asked him to stop now as the story reaches its fatal climax the sergeant begins to ask specific questions because he needs to find the truth about how chelsea received the facial damage the actual cause of her death now now so so then from there you said you you i think you said you get kind of freaked out a little bit yeah and i just started driving no they said they found them split on a lip i'm thinking that maybe when i threw all the branches on her or maybe when i like because i got out of the car i swear i picked her up and carried her but i might have dropped her a couple times because she was you know i'm not that big of a beast right um did you did you ever i pushed you didn't she get into a fight at the party too but she she no she had walked into a board okay and she had a little blood his legs have not stopped moving as well as hands are in the protect the jewels position again this is a fight-or-flight anxiety response we naturally move our hands towards protecting our important organs including reproductive organs i remember seeing blood on your face like that somebody like i remember hearing about it days later that you know she already busted up her face or something she walked under she walked into a board the sergeant has evidence that she was struck but before he reveals anything definitive he's having daniel exhaust all probabilities the coup de gras is his revelation that chelsea did not in fact have brittle bone disease so that was not actually a factor in the damage she sustained did uh okay so did you ever like push her down to the point where maybe her bone could break her and by the way she did not have brittle bone disease by the way so i said that yeah it was it was a little bit of a muscle issue and what that what that was is the muscle issue would it just make her tired okay it had nothing to do with her bones or nothing okay so her bones your balls are very strong i might have pushed down her throat down i don't remember i was [ __ ] now we should drop her i mean did you drop her from how are you carrying like this like probably on my shoulder like okay so so you're wet six foot so we're about the same height so maybe you're a little taller tonight but she carried her like this she didn't carry her like a fireman probably both ways okay did you did you did you drop her pretty sure what did you drop around it'd be because i pulled down the tracks a little bit so whatever is on that pathway the back where they found her okay because i was stumbling all around just trying to find somewhere to twitter pretty much like i don't know why i was doing it i just kept thinking that if i go to take myself to the police department right now they're going to just do you drop around any kind of hard object i might have well i mean can you would you know i mean would you hurt a thud i would think when i pulled up or you dropped when i pulled up i come there's a spot we parked and there's a field right there yeah in front of it isn't that across the street from where she was found because that's where i parked so i probably walked her down those tracks i'm gonna drop her in the road around the tracks daniel continues to change his story to fit the new evidence presented now he's desperately trying to find a situation to explain the damage to chelsea's face because the act will be seen as intentional rather than accidental we have a problem okay because she's got some significant injury in your jaw everybody's jaw is is this is probably one of the more stronger bones you have in your body because it's your jaw i mean you use it you know to bite and you're constantly using it and the way the medical exam explained it it's almost kind of like the bone material you know the i guess the composition of your the bone here is it's almost like woven so it's even stronger than like say your arm bone or like a rib or something like that um and she has a significant injury to her midline right here okay it's broke like could that could have been like me dropping around her face something i'm not a doctor but i'm gonna ask him but because from three feet long like over my shoulder you know before i dropped her like it's not a pretty photo but i want to show you you see that right there yeah because i kind of get that's broken right now i got i got better pictures i have no idea how that happened right here unless i dropped around my face and this is broke here is this the way you left her probably i branched over yeah the sergeant makes a quick check to prove without a doubt that daniel put her there pointing out that only the one who did this would have known about the logs and he agrees the viewing of the photographs is one of the few times that daniel seems very quiet that's significant yeah that is but unless i have no idea i'm talking from three to four feet i mean i don't know how you can break a bone that way yeah i'm just a lay person here but as the medical guy like cause i walked down the tracks part way not across the road there so unless i like dropped her onto the tracks for the road i know i i know i didn't make it that far drunk carrying her that way this after she died did you slam her head up and down on on a hard object with someone no like i might have hit her against something but not like that or i might have tried to smack her like i might have hit her hard when i was smacking her trying to get her wake up but not like that like you're looking like you're looking at the brakes i wasn't that messed up i mean i was drunk i was [ __ ] up but not like to where i would know my own strength like that i could have stopped that don't stop no you can't you're not gonna break somebody's definition i mean i could have like tried i don't even think i don't even think that because these bogs were light if i remember they weren't they were big they weren't heavy at all we picked them up like it was nothing so i remember there being one heavy log that i picked up and put on her the first time that might not have been grabbed the second time did you did you smash your face with it i might have hit her with it on accident but not like purposefully i might have like picked up the log and it went like that hit her i never hit that girl this is the second time that daniel has referred to chelsea as that girl which is a little disrespectful but also a way of distancing himself from her he's been throwing out all the possibilities he can to try to make his story fit the evidence but his stress level is obviously increasing which is evident as he throws his hands wide in exaggerated motions to try to convince the sergeant of his innocence this is what i'm having a problem understanding you know dan is is she has significant injury here here here here and she's back here presumably that's according to you so how can we explain this this is this is not good i mean your your suggestions and i understand where you're coming from but the suggestions of dropping somebody from three to four feet the medical examiner i've already asked you that okay i've already asked him that okay because because i like it's because we all know how hard it is to carry dead weight she's 130 pounds earn 30 pounds i don't care how strong you are that's hard you know to do so so i could see you dropping and i asked that question what would he drop no and i said explain to me how that happens doctor and and it's like strike with an object matter of fact we talked to the anthropologist okay she's a really really smart person when it comes to bones and and i asked herself could somebody punch her because that's what we thought somebody punch her and she said he'd probably break his fists before it would break these bones just to give you an idea probably break your fists so her thought process was that that an object was in the hand you know like a like a hammer or no or a tire and i'm just throwing stuff out there um you know an object would cause that significant break so the next question to the anthropologist was how does that happen and she said well you could smash your face into a hard object a stable hard object uh multiple times because there's multiple impacts impact impact impact impact impact okay we all know like i don't know if i like snapped and tried hitting her afterwards trying to wake her up or something i don't remember thinking i don't she's owed it i really don't i remember do you working out a lot throughout the night like i was stuck i remember after i choked it but then she passed out i couldn't get her back to wait like but listen i remember tapping around the face and hitting on the face but i might have hit her hard then like to give these up here but i doubt this down here i don't think i broke her jaw hit me like that you can't you can't remember i don't remember a good part of the party like i don't remember what i was doing there cause of death i don't remember the force trauma that's the cause of death daniel it's not from her being choked it's from her being hit in the face of something so we need an answer we need closure i was choking her that's when she stopped moving and stuff do you know that do you know that you can be alive and have real real real shallow breathing do you know she probably died miserably here like out in the field somewhere with a couple guys she's logged out she was dead when you know it's like there was no breath no nothing no pulse no nothing i sat there and kept trying to find it forever do you understand what i'm saying death death death was one force trauma that i had that's what they called it that's what the medical examiner calls it the people that do this for a living while the detective is speaking daniel wipes sweat from his forehead and hands there's nowhere else for him to run there's no way that this is about to make me have a panic attack like and then i'm literally feeling myself sweating and about to just start crying and passing out i'm pleased to say that in some water daniel requests a cigarette in an attempt to take the focus off him as he's out of excuses and so he can escape the intense questioning detective sroka goes to get him some water taking money from the lead detective for the purpose while the other man is gone the detective tells daniel how close they've all come with chelsea's family and urges him to give them the closure they need daniel you saw that jawline it is absolutely displaced i really don't know unless that was from throwing the wood on her like the draw i could get the i could get the eyes like i could have probably done that i won't lie to you say there is parts where i blacked out i don't remember a lot of that i remember it was easy like you smash your head in the door i i could have when i got you i got your head not on purpose not on purpose i'm telling you when she stopped moving that's when i was choking her and that's why i thought she was dead so unless after that when i was freaking out trying to wake her up or something i did it or when i got her out of the car i did it i could have hit her head in the door then i could have hit her head on the train tracks walking down him i could have hit her head with the branch but i never like so i'm gonna go back and i would talk to the medical examiner i'm not telling him i'm gonna tell you i don't know like i said i could have done the ones under eye but i don't look at that i didn't hear like that i was going like this and stuff like i was just trying to wake her up i don't know displaced when someone encounters a threat such as being interrogated for murder their body may go into fight-or-flight mode respiration increases and mucous membranes dry up this combination may result in the pitch of someone's voice changing as daniels has here i don't know significant injury doctor said car wreck could cause that and hit her with the car i know you didn't listen i know you didn't i don't know either either a two things you have to either you hit it with an object extremely hard multiple times or b you smashed your head multiple times on a hard object and i'm looking at it and if i'm if i'm just a lay person looking at this looking poor chelsea you know what i'm saying look look at that i know and in fact can i can you please see about if you got your water yet i'm literally feel like i'm about to pass out daniel's refusal to look at chelsea's picture is a refusal to face the monstrous thing that he did daniel we need you to remember this okay people aren't going to believe that you choked her and people are going to be on the impression that you're not sorry about what you did because you're not telling the whole truth horribly sorry i don't remember i i don't remember how she got it in the face and we need to know about that considering keep asking it doesn't matter if you choked your death through the baseball bat after i come out with this yesterday after i come out with this yesterday and told you everything i have nothing else to hide nothing i'm telling you right now there is a good possibility i could have obviously it's i must have did something okay i'm not gonna lie to you and keep trying to say i didn't because you showed me this stuff i don't remember doing that i honest to god do not remember doing that or what i used to do it or if i did it like i don't know what am i going to tell mom i was flagged out tell her when i when she to me was dead she don't give a [ __ ] about that she she i really don't know what you're doing a devastating secret has been hidden from her for one year and eight months the death of her child she now you are now with you are now at the finish line you're now at the finish line and she's owed that she is owed that she is oda a mother somebody who carried her for nine months and cared for her for 20 years for 22 years she still lived in his office she still just cut myself i can't wait my face i can't do anything can i get some tissue or something i don't remember ever doing anything like that the fact that i did that makes me want to die you could shoot me right now and i wouldn't give it obviously i don't remember sir i swear to you i cannot remember daniel's recent references to the detectives as sirs is an attempt to come across as a respectful polite person rather than the monster that he actually is however during this conversation about the victim's family he's more concerned with his own well-being as he's only interested in getting a tissue his crying fits are more than likely staged evident by how he's able to turn his emotions off and on composing himself immediately and appearing fine between outbreaks i honestly do not like remember that i know i was freaked out i was upset i thought she was dead when i choked her if i know she was still alive i would have let her go i would take her to the hospital or something that's why i freaked out was because i thought she was dead daniel slips up here after all if she was there consensually why would he need to let her go he realizes this and quickly adds the part about the hospital as damage control but what daniel has to say next no one saw coming you could have you could have driven her to the hospital monroe just dropped her in a parking lot she had a lot better chance of living than put her out in the middle of the woods i know but i was afraid about going to prison for the rest of my life over it now i'm still i am so it's about you it was yes i won't lie as the interrogation draws to a close daniel shocks everyone with his narcissistic behavior you know i've dealt with this every day since then it's not just something she's had to live with do you think i don't sit there and think about this every day she's dead and now you're telling me this now this is a whole nother thing i have to deal with on it that i could have beat this girl when i was blacked out and not known and that's what killed her instead of me i could have just took her to the hospital and now this is stuff i've dealt with my entire last year and a half this is classic narcissistic behavior as daniel is still only able to think about how his own actions have affected him rather than what they've done to others he has no real remorse for chelsea or those affected by her death at his hands i don't remember doing that if i did i would tell you what do i have to hide you've gone out lived your life you've got on on facebook and and you're under investigation right now for for uh for for other incidents for what you went and lived your life what am i under investigation for i talked about it man all right now what did you i i know what you're talking about everybody what uh what's her name charlie i was with wesley and claire the whole time i heard she tried saying i'm talking about the one where you brought the girl back to your girlfriend's trailer that you said was yours and you showered with her and she told you to stop and you didn't stop which one who so there's more than one i don't know who you're drawing my client right here i'm saying if you haven't seen when i lived your life wait what what trailer did i take who to the one i'm living in now yeah just this month earlier this month the girl from is it if still ipsy or you better meet me cece yeah yeah i'm checking my messages she's mad because i found her that's all it is check my facebook messages they're in there still good look okay trust me you can look through the we'll do that we'll do that we'll do it but you my point right now though yeah go ahead you i know but you went out and lived your life yes i did and now you're smart stupid you're just working right now i'm not smirking you were no yeah well about this easy thing because that's hilarious none of this is hilarious i could have been hitting her i could have i don't remember sir so out of all this this is which one you are that's it just i'm so sorry that's it no i want to tell you i want you to tell her that i'm sorry there's nothing i can do to bring back her daughter there's nothing i can do to make it right there is nothing everything i did is wrong in this situation i will live the rest of my life regretting this i've ruined my life too by doing this don't worry about that i'm just saying i need you after once again proving that all he cares about is himself daniel clay has led away from the interrogation room at his trial on may 16th daniel clay was convicted of the first degree murder of josie brock and given a life sentence in prison without parole

Channel: EXPLORE WITH US

Views: 9,083,477

Keywords: documentary, true crime documentary, psychology, law

Id: Zrsb0nJzX2w

Length: 101min 10sec (6070 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 31 2022