Key to the City - London Final Thoughts

hey everybody final thoughts time for key to the city London which it's not it's about is a great great great game because its predecessor key flower is a great great great game I mean key flowers in my top 10 games of all time absolutely love it and amazing just just about perfect blend of auction and work replacement and route building it's just phenomenal and Scotney onto big expansions add a lot more in division you know it's become a big heavy beast with a ton of stuff that's going on and so now along comes it's it's kind of it's a little brother key to the city and so I'm sure a lot of people out there wondering well I have key flower should I get key to the city or I don't have key flower which should I get key to the city or key far what should i do what should i do well before I actually give you Jentezen my feedback and you know kind of what we're thinking about it please bear in mind that you know we're just two data points you'll use the run-through decide for yourself which one thinks better I'm really gonna focus more on what the strengths and weaknesses are of each game I think so you can make an informed decision about why you might want one over the other or maybe both depending so let's do a contrast and compare well for starters the the big claim to fame that key to the city has is it what's the best way to play it's a it's a more streamlined game how those about to say it's a simpler game or it's an easier game but that's that's kind of misleading it's more streamlined because this is a deep game there is a lot of thinking it goes on there's a lot of connotation there is a lot of brain burning that goes on in this game but overall the experience you have playing this is just smoother silkier there's a lot less little persnickety rules I mean yeah and I we played key flower tons of times now over a dozen times every time we play though I always have to go back to the rules and right right what was the end of round order what were house it particulars you just a worker right how did this particular thing interact with this thing key flower is a brilliant beautiful design but streamlined it is not it has a lot of bumps in the road to playing that game key to the city really smooth things out but probably the thing I love most about key to the city over Kefauver I think it's a huge improvement key flower is the way turn order is determined because it's hugely important hey you know as you saw in this game it's really simple there's this brilliant it's a totally new element to the game that wasn't in key flower it's kind of playing chicken because whoever passes whoever gets off the merry-go-round first gets first dibs on you know a very big important choice more meeples first in turn order or grab an extra tile that nobody else can have that's a big interesting decision in key flower that same decision is there but it's not based on somebody stopping bidding it's there's actually bidding there are additional tiles out that people can bid on in addition to the resource generating the Oh village tiles you get there are turn order tiles worth I really want to be first next turn then I need to bid on this town somebody else might outbid me to be first player that's fine that works and it can create for some very interesting stuff particularly with higher player counts but this is so much better because I love this notion in a key to the city of okay I can do a pass and then just wait to see what you're gonna do um you know I'm sure cuz I'm trying to find out do I need cuz I want to get out now okay I want to get out because I want to jump on London Bridge and grab what I want right but if I get out completely then I could get outbid I lose my thing so instead I'll just do a soft pass I'll just wait and buy my turn so that you are now worried about okay do I still have yellows if you try to raise me on you know my Royal Festival Hall because you want it am I still holding yellows back I stayed in I didn't pass so if you try to outbid me I could still get in there so I mean it's it's a brilliant brilliant thing this it's just incredibly tense if you vote when Jenna are playing it we're saying I need you to tell me what you're gonna do the whole time it's a beautiful wonderful feeling this incredible tension and you're I'm not gonna tell you what I'm going to do you have to get it's just oh it's good it's it's clean it's so cleans and tidies up the player succession because again in key flower it was sloppy it was ugly it's something that's easy to make mistakes and you're always double-checking the rules right let me sure blah blah blah here it's just this simple thing I'm okay if I get out completely hey I get first dibs on what's coming next umm you know and that's a really interesting choice but oh my god what have I given up what if I walked away from um you know did I guess correctly you don't have any more blue so you're not gonna outbid me or do I just wait and see okay well I'll do a soft pass and I'll sign you know the full pass oh my god you were gonna quit anyway I could have gotten out before you III judge strongly it's brilliant it is so smart I gotta say I would love to see that retro actually put back into ki flower it is such a huge improvement hugely and there's another thing side-effect of that as well of course in ki flower you didn't have these tiles that you're weighing anchor and moving over to where it's just says oh well you get four meeples you get six meeples or whatever and everybody just draws blindly from the bag in the original key flower the meeples that you're gonna get by a winning first player and getting first dibs on whatever boat you wanted you can see all those meatballs they're right out there in public knowledge so you're trying to decide ooh yeah that's a boat that has seven meeples that boat only has five meeples but it also has a tile on it how do i value these but a thing that was in the game because of that was okay I I see that you my opponent you took the boat that had the seven meeples on it that was five yellows and one blue and one red okay I now have to remember you're strong and yellow you're strong and yellow the boat system in key flour added a memory element to the game that Jen and I both hate hi so much appreciate so much more enjoy the notion of okay well just um yeah it's gonna be think and now I'll just find out what I get and you don't know I'm just gonna put it back I yeah again key flowers in my top 10 games all time but I'm not saying it's perfect I'm you know there's a reason it's not my number one game of all time it's just in my top ten and Jen and I it's fine and you I'm sure for people who have eidetic memories who have just like steel-trap brains and can remember how much it did love that the fact and you know heck they might not like the fact that in kiya City London there's more uncertainty you cannot count meeple like Rain Man and memorize what everybody is taken off the board you know both in terms of what they claimed off of their tiles and what they claimed off the ships gen-i we didn't like that because we always kind of felt like well gosh I really should try to remember that but I don't want to I just want to focus on my game so for us on the whole I think the overall structure for how the procession of turn order and how you set the next rounds is so much better so much smoother I like it a lot and I would love to roll back now the next big change between the two games is the introduction of these route pieces and what that does is that basically replaces you know wholesale core placement of the gameplay of the original game you know of course you're still bidding you're still hanging tiles you're still trying to lay out the puzzle of your borough or village in the original game but in the original game all the pieces already had the roads built in and you were trying to build roads you're kind of doing like Carcassonne style tiling making sure all the roads connected because these tiles would generate goods that you had to move from one tile to another to be able to upgrade so I mean I so it was like this multistage process to be able to upgrade your tiles and score lots of points this very big is very deep it's where a lot of the depth of the game comes from and this game is jettisoned all of that to replace with the depth and complexity of this route building Network stuff which is I'm gonna go so far say I'm I'm gonna say that's a wash they are both good systems they both give you a lot to think about they both make the puzzle of how you're gonna lay out your own little neck of the woods and interesting thing to solve and it makes for interesting decisions of which tiles do you value the most because they will work really well in your borough now I will say if anything there you know they both have an interesting they're both equally interesting they're both equally challenging but this one key flower again with this whole notion of kind of it's a streamlined version of the original game it is kind of easier to get your head around because no no it's more forgiving that is a central tenet of key to the city it is a bit more easygoing um in this game because you know what when I lay all my stuff I build the roads I decide how the roads are gonna be laid out I am not beholding to the roads that are already on the tiles and I'm spinning him around trying to puzzle fit this thing together to make it work so that I can get my stone from over here to over here because I need to do it in only two moves and all this kind of stuff this game you have so much more control over your borough and a lot more freedom and flexibility and a little bit more of a safety net because you you can always you know even if you got the wrong tile for what you need it or the tile you really need went away you you um it's a lot easier to make up for any kind of shortfall that happened because of your opponents you know with the game it takes it easier on you key flower is harsher and more unforgiving a key to the city is more warm and inviting you know and in supportive of you as a player which is interesting and you know it's really gonna be up to you as a player to decide what you want I mean if anything I would say keef the city is almost a bit more sandboxie in that regard because well you know everybody sees there are these goals right up front right I mean everybody knows about them you can decide whether you're gonna chase after these are not because you could be just as successful and completely ignoring these and building up your borough that much stronger or you could save up for these and try to go for them at the end of the game well you got might have to pay big to pull them off but um you just have a lot more freedom and flexibility kee-kee flour is more constrained because of you because there are because in key a key to the city all you gotta do is you just got to generate your stuff and put them down wherever you want wherever you want um you know and in fact I didn't mention in the run-through but to upgrade in in key flour you have to send a guy to your own home tile and then that gives you the opportunity to move goods around so that you can actually flip a tile in key to the city if I want to upgrade Hyde Park I just put a guy on Hyde Park and I show up do I have what I need do I have architecture and a thing yeah alright then boom I'll just go ahead and flip it it's just much easier going now I'm doing wrong the puzzle to actually figure out how to lay my stuff out get everything that I need to get to be able to do it is still an interesting and engaging challenging puzzle but it's it likes that it's just it's yeah it's it gives you a little bit more leeway it doesn't quite put the thumbscrews - you're quite as hard you own again I think that's kind of a consistent thing it's a more streamlined game it's a more easygoing game it's a more I'm free you know you had you're less constrained unless confined as well so that's interesting element I'm you know and again it's gonna be up to what do you want more do you want a game that can really punish you and just beat you up you might prefer key flower do you want a game that gives you a little bit more freedom to artistically express and solve problems you might like key to the city if you want do you like both of those things you might want both um let's see Oh another one thing that I think is bad about key to the city I mean I like this this robbed building thing but you just saw in this little example I did I want to upgrade this tile to do that I've got to slide these guys off get the move off flip the thing over put it back and slide off it's a bit more fiddly you didn't have quite as many moving parts um you know when you eventually get all six connectors to your home tile six things connected and you're ready to flip it you gotta hold them all off and flip the thing and then put them all back on don't get me wrong it's not the end of the world but it's a little fiddly and I honestly think they would have been better off dumping the notion of flipping to represent if a tile has been upgraded and instead just shipped with a bunch of cubes or a bunch of extra tokens saying upgrade because I gotta say one thing I love I love there's a new type of tile were there any that came out in this run-through I'm doing so far yeah it's the new type of tile that basic the monument tiles like if I could just find one like oh oh I can all right like st. Paul's here so st. Paul's you know there were there were tiles like this in key flour as well we're basically you just had to get a bunch of resources to it and then it flipped and that's it hey it's scored points that was it it doesn't generate stuff it's just it gives you your own goal to try to get the resources here this one you need the resources as well you need sewage you know the brown tiles getting over to st. Paul so you can flip it but the thing is once you've flipped it it can be upgraded a second time to go from six points at the end of the game to twelve points means you have to do some more in this case you have to give a skill tile and another brown connector and then instead of because you can't flip it a second time you instead just take it and you put the little marker on it to indicate that and I love this I love that there you know it functionally doesn't matter but there's this 3d element to the game now that that's your city kind of build upwards that's awesome I would love to see that retrofitted back into key far as well the notion of double upgrade tiles is very very cool I like that quite a bit and the reason I mentioned that is because honestly I think since you know putting these on is a second stage of upgrade I would have liked the first stage of upgrade just to be to put a little cube on there so I don't have to mess with all the sticks and moving them and flipping them and all that it's a minor complaint but it was just it's just kind of a little bit of it yeah it's really not that big a deal but in all honesty I it's an easy solution as well if you've got games you have a bunch of cubes electron you know every one of these tiles shows you what the upgraded side does just provide your own upgrade cubes and when you successfully upgrade just put the upgrade cube on rather than move everything's around and flip and all that kind of stuff so I would have liked to see that it's a minor complaint but let's see in a nutshell the tears twinky the city and key flower like I said key flower is more harsh it's more unforgiving and it's more person icky this is smooth and streamline and another thing I haven't mentioned I'm really surprised after Jenna I finished our first game of this we said wow that was fast we looked at the box and it says 90 to 120 minutes which is the same stated time as key flower ah this box lies our first time we ever played this game we finished in a shorter time than our most recent play of key flower because this game is fast it is so much quicker um you just go go go because again that streamline nature there's less stuff to fall and the puzzle like I said because it's a bit less unforgiving this game I'm not gonna say it's half the time but maybe like 30% shorter so that's something to bear in mind as well if you want a really rich and interesting auction slash work replacement resource gathering game but you would like it in a shorter time frame this one is significantly shorter that is a huge SCAP for me and Jen big big time so that's another big consideration are there any other things to bear mine well so there's one thing that I really do prefer about key flour over this this has basically two resources these skill tiles that you're collecting which you need to do upgrades or you know short trade for points at the end of the game depending on the objectives and these connectors that you're connecting to make your big elaborate routes and that's the fundamental puzzle um the what's a key flour has resources instead of these you know there's multiple colored resources instead they work differently but about the same level of depth and complexity or you know an interest level and it had the skill tiles like this game but the meeples were also an ongoing resource because some tiles actually generated meeples converted one color of meatball to another color people created a special fourth color of meeple which by the way wasn't very colorblind friendly so that's another problem key flower not very colorblind friendly key to the city colorblind friendly I mean even though they made sure not to put any green sticks in here so that color bond players can play so I do miss that there was an extra level of complexity of what your tiles could do in this game all the tiles either generate skill tiles or generate um you know these connector sticks or they generate points there's nothing that generates workers as well and so that extra arm is one of the reasons this game is so much faster if you're looking for a deep interesting game that's quick this is the one you know and that gets more important I think and this is the last thing I want to talk about player count honestly if your if your main concern is player count I think for my money key flower is a better two-player game um become but again only if you're like me and gin you're the type of player who likes to be brutally crushed by the game one things I love about key flower is the fewer players are the fewer tiles come out of here and and it could very well be you play a game where no tiles that generates stone or wood or something like something you really need badly they might never be in the game at all and then that really forces you to rethink everything and double time it and try to figure out how best to do stuff in you and so that's something can happen in key city London all the reet no matter how much player count you're gonna all the resources are gonna be available every single time you play guarantee because there's a much more fixed layout you know you know these six tiles are gonna come out in the first round these six outs are gonna come on the second round and then there's a bunch of points going stuff for the rest there's a lot more uncertainty in key flower this game you can proceed with a lot more confidence that you will be able to achieve what you set out to do and again for some players that's improvement for me and Jen we like the fact that sometimes key flower will just crash just destroy us and break our spirit because it just will not give us what we need and that means we have to fight tooth and nail all the more to try to to solve the problem the game gives us this game like i said it's faster it's smoother and it's more laid-back and forgiving oh and then of course there's also the theme you know this is a very clean modern design London is Jen's favorite city in the world haami okie flower is obviously very sweet and charming and you know for the art from Richard baristas sister Juliet they both are lovely and lovely in their presentation the theme I really is gonna be up to you I mean we like them both equally so at the end of the day though like I said I get you know oh that's the other thing I was talking about player count I think key to the city is gonna be better with higher player counts because key flower is pretty well known as being a game that the more players you get around the table the more painful it gets and not because oh it's it's a good kind of painful because the game is really putting you through your paces and make you figure out stuff a bad kind of painfully oh my god will this game ever end kind of painful make a decision we have to go kind of painful analysis paralysis you know these are the the auctions are gonna last a lot longer this game is gonna be a breeze I would never ever want to play key flower with you know five players or a higher player counts you know three players I think key flowers gonna be better because it's tighter it's a little bit more interesting it's a tougher game higher player counts I'd rather play this because it's going to be faster it's gonna be smoother it's gonna be more fun I one time did play a key flower full player count and I'm doing that again this game I wouldn't be afraid of it because of the streamlining because of the player friendliness so that's another consideration to have as well too okay that's it folks the Hat there's some final thoughts for key to the city London hopefully that helps give you some idea of the relative strengths you know the pros and cons of the two games and I'm gonna end it right there and say thanks for watching any questions comments concerns as always please let me know otherwise I've got a very very nice day talk to you later so long

Channel: Rahdo

Views: 10,230

Rating: 4.8630137 out of 5

Keywords: boardgames, radho, baordgames, board games, game, rahdo, baord games, baord game, baordgame, boardgame, board game, rhado

Id: t4K-C1UBZLg

Length: 20min 33sec (1233 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 07 2016