Kelley Earnhardt Miller & Brian Carter On World Of Outlaws, Streaming and Dirt Racing's Future

[Music] all right welcome back uh to 2024's first episode of business of Motorsports I am excited to be here today with a really special guest Brian Carter who is the CEO of World Racing group um and it is going to be just really cool to talk to somebody who's at the HM of another series um uh obviously with with my background in NASCAR and then now us owning the cars tour I've got lots of curious questions um I know there's going to be a lot of commonality so we're going to dive into those intricacies of of that and just learn about Brian's story learn about uh the World of Outlaws um racing and uh dirt car series racing um I didn't know all these things so I just I'm so curious so um excited to dive into this and um this segment today is brought to you by Ally and I'm so excited to be back in the Bojangle studio all right Brian so uh welcome to the business of Motorsports I'm super excited you're my first guest and and I'm so glad that when I reached out to uh Tish who I've known for a long time that you said yes yeah I'm excited to be here it's 2024 already I can't believe it it's uh Trucking along and we're going to be back in valua near Daytona again going racing so it's exciting I know it comes quick and it passes quick doesn't it there the pace today is uh unbelievable it's so much faster and things happen the expectations are high it's uh nonstop 24 hours a day and as fast a pace as I've ever seen it yeah so so I want to start um I've I've got so many things I want to dive into because uh uh you guys have done a lot of things really cool um with the streaming service and um just a lot of different things so I want to dive into that but first you know talk about your position talk about how you joined a world racing group um don't forget to talk about your background in financial and Chuck-E-Cheese I got to hear about Chuck E cheese oh my God that's funny that yeah my first client at Del when I started back in 1989 I guess 1990 it was uh Chuck-E-Cheese ShowBiz Pizza the merger of that company and entertainment right off the bat in my career so uh yeah it's been an interesting journey I people ask me how did you get here is really kind of happen stance you know I grew up as a race fan started going to the track my mom would tell you before I was born back in Manasses Speedway in Virginia uh my dad was a huge race fan so I I started out as a fan first started going to Heart of Texas Speedway um in 1974 so it a long time ago just grew up as a race fan and uh just happens St put me back in it in a way in which I could contribute from uh from my career and and and integrated into what I was doing so it's been a interesting Journey from a Texas boy growing up in Maha Texas uh and then ending up so close to where the home of the World of Outlaws was seeing it as I was growing up 1978 puts me a long time ago but I missed the first race I didn't get to see the first race but it was a part I I knew what was happening it was fun to fun to see it and just growing up a dirt racing fan my entire life and and then happen stance would have me back in a place where I can contribute in a way that I never really expected to be able to and and now 20 years later from the time in 2003 it's just extraordinary to see it and to be be a part of it so I don't know how much of that hisory you want to see but yeah show is I started as a deoe finance guy so 10 years at Delo pretty much raising money for my clients helping them uh from a CPA and from a Consulting perspective and raised a lot of money along the way almost 7 a half billion dollars so it was it was fun to be able to do some things and and really leverage that relationship uh the background and and the finance side and kind of bring some of those resources to dirt racing a lot of this stuff had started to happen before I got involved actually one of the investors initially in what became what is World Racing group was an investor in a software company I was taking public in back in the late 90s in Dallas and it just happened hey we're starting this Motorsports company we had some some aligned investors they they were investing in the software company and they were starting to invest in what was to become boundless racing and and and dirt Motorsports so when I started uh when I could see the software company and bringing it to a Clos as we sold it the investors say hey what do we're working on this Motorsport property what do you think and I'm like well yeah I'm in it was like yeah I'm in it's like what let's let's talk about what you're trying to do and then it was a mess it was a real mess they were buying the World of Outlaws they buying ump they were building a a Moto GP track on top of a nuclear or a a um a uh a a uh oh my gosh what it was it called in waxahachi it was the old uh uh GPX racetrack it was that was a long time ago I blocked that one there must be some reason I blocked that from my memory that's right there's some trauma there I guess I have to have to talk to my therapist about that one um but yeah it's been a interesting journey to see how the world wants its Motorsports and how it wants its dirt racing and how it wants and how it all fits and and some of the things that are it's been an interesting ride it was we're a public company I take pride in being beating NASCAR and SMI to go private y so you know I thought about that yeah so I'm curious about that um why take Motorsports public at that point well it was an easy way to raise Capital uh so you know the the marketplace was enamored with it it was a a highlight time and uh it created awareness too so one of the you know the Pursuits we're after is awareness and and being public and the excitement and energy and telling the story and you could really merge that so we we tried that it was public company before I got involved which is one of the reasons why I got involved because it was a mess and it wasn't in compliance it was doing all sorts of things and but we were still following the tide we really were the the the awareness and all the things that were happening in the in the early 2000s and all the the good pieces around Motorsports we were able to take advantage of that and raise money in the public market and uh and then when all that stopped which for everybody in 2008 uh really had to reevaluate how much visibility we wanted to give the world to what we were doing and what we're trying to get done because it is a it is a place they power is based on how much you know who you know how you get it done and and the public environment was really tough and I think SMI and NASCAR figured out pretty quick too that the public environment is tough especially in Motorsports and everybody who knows something is thinks they know something it's it's it's kind of crazy but we beat them going private too so now we're in a private world and we can operate in a way that's very Nimble for us so yeah I that I worked for Action performance at the time when they were going private too and like you said it was in the same timing that you're talking about when NASCAR was just blowing up and the demands to meet you know what they were looking for at Wall Street were tough and they were tough in this business particularly because you're dealing with um you know our timelines in the in in the Motorsports business don't follow your typical business when you can plan out and you know with sponsors changing and things changing and drivers changing and all these things changing it's really hard to plan plan around a lot of those things so right and then the disclosure started to become and then the processes and when you think about trying to evolve a dirt track or even a even a NASCAR track when you've got all the all of the cash and the transactions and the different pieces and then you try to make that compliance like yeah this is going to be a lot tougher than people imagin so we started going through that process and and actually got all that done and at the time we're able to you know we raised a lot of money in private equity and we're able to navigate that exit in a way that really didn't disrupt it really people didn't understand or didn't really even know it was happening so from my perspective now being a privately held company with just a myself and the original investment banker being the two partners we can be still the same Partners still the same Partners after all this time so it's uh it's been a great ride and now we can navigate this in a way in which we can pay much like a a small company can and it's it's actually gives us a lot of flexibility so let's talk about um how you guys operate um I you know I'll be honest um you talked about brand awareness and growing up and growing up in Motorsports you know certainly the World of Outlaws is a a name that I know I won't say a lot about but you know it's it's what I know right it's at the Forefront I did not realized that you guys were also um the promoter and sanction body for like ump and other dirt car stuff the super dirt series super dirt car series and things like that so um talk about just uh you know how broad the business is and then I also o want to to dive into kind of your promoting and sanctioning at the same time and not one or the other right no it's a it's been a it's been an interesting Journey we we own ump we own uh which is dir car and we super dark Car Series we have 15 touring series people don't understand all of that we sanction uh weekly track weekly tracks a couple hundred weekly tracks across the country uh and provide some stability and normaly for them so really it's been this amazing awareness campaign people are aware of the the World of Outlaws but they don't understand what it takes to make the World of Outlaws successful is this ecosystem of dirt racing that has to survive on a weekly basis and Thrive at the same you know so that we can only be as good as the tracks and the and the racing Community is same thing that we think through in NASCAR with Grassroots racing right when why we're so passionate particularly myself and Dale and Junior Motorsports are so passionate about late mod stock racing and Grassroots racing because it is what feeds the bigger ecosystem like you said not only the drivers but but the fans and and and the manufacturers and all the other pieces that The Balancing Act that you're trying to create and you know if you keep that Foundation strong you can build something really cool on top and and that's what what we're doing with uh all of our it's been the that that's been the focus since the very beginning is creating a hierarchy a balance of how does this work when we leave you know we can't just have one huge weekend with the Outlaws in town and then expect the ecosystem to survive the rest of the year so we really trying to provide an awareness and stability for the industry throughout and then leverage you mentioned promoting but leverage all of those relationships then to not only schedule events but schedule all the events in and you're managing the UMP and the summer nationals the dirt car pieces and you're managing super D Car Series you know Ted Johnson back in the day didn't really care what Glenn Donley was doing in the Northeast but now you have all these tracks at it we're trying to figure out a balancing act and getting us moving across the country now 12 months through the year uh with 15 touring series it it it allows us to create an offering for the racetracks that helps them survive and and Thrive throughout the year uh so that we can have a big event when we we need the the the place at Full Tilt with the World of Outlaws there so I'm going to guess um just based off of what you said tracks like Williams Grove and Port Royal are those tracks that are within your peripheral that you help and what does it actually look like when you say that you know to keep that EOS ecosystem strong at that level well it's uh uh Williams Grove is a great example of what we're trying to do you know people people wonder how do we support weekly 410 racing what we've done is we've we're trying to create an awareness campaign you know if you look at where we've been able to do it it's actually through our streaming platform through our support of Williams Grove and Attica and and Knoxville and beaverdam and and houet and uh our weekly derision tracks are really trying to create awareness and the cornerstones of the Sprint car racing community so that we can support them on a weekly basis create awareness that creates an overall fan base so that when our events start to elevate as we come in with the World of Outlaws so there's whether it's two or 3x come in for that special World of Outlaw show we need that X at the bottom to be the the important part that that that Baseline customer base for the tracks has to be strong or you end up in a place where there's not going to be a fan base to come in when we come in for the week so but the supporting part of you know if you talk about ump and the dirt car piece the Illinois and the Indiana the you know we start to support those programs with the weekly tracks and then you end up you it's it's really this sort of whole machine that's moving um and creating again a a foundation to build on and then to it's it's a it's a it's a complicated business and it's really driven by the whole balance of of you know you need fans first you have to have fans or we're not going we won't be racing in front of anybody then nobody's going to want to sponsor anybody and nobody's going to be watching it so it really is a fan first business then you build out how how do you create as many livings around it that's what we're trying to do yeah and really you know I mean to me it's like all the stakeholders right you've got you've just got to you're working with every stakeholder for the bigger picture Ely I think that's a struggle that we always talk about in NASCAR we're we're getting there and and and but but it hasn't always been that way you so so and the the model we bought from Ted you know he he from 1978 to 2003 he was fundamentally building a business based on sanction fees and t-shirt sales let's not be and then he had sponsors and TV and all the other pieces that really kind of got in front of him he kind of got it growing so fast and then it kind of ran him over a little bit trying to get to where it it wanted to be but he wasn't really ready to get there but you know as we started looking at the business the as you invest in brand awareness and you invest in the marketing side and your only upside is the same sanction fee that we're actually getting Less in sanction fee than we were when we bought it so the $225,000 a night for sanction fee for the World of Outlaws hasn't changed in 20 years but the evolution of what the what we needed to build the community which is the whole the racing Community is okay well we really need to get create the direct relationship with the customer so that's how we became promoters so we bought racetracks in the in the process but we also became promoters of of the World of Outlaws and promoters of events and and by doing that we can mitigate risk across a lot more you know you have a bad weekend it's not catastrophic to some promoters if you have a bad weekend it can be really painful and and something some promoters may not be able to recover from so for us if we're going to invest in the brand awareness invest in the growth of the sport we only have so many weekends we can make $25,000 we really had to come to a different conclusion as to where the sport needed to evolve to which is the evolution of the whole Community the promotion the series bringing all that in and as you create that Community you create more um you know more opportunities more opportunities more opportunities so you know in order for us to to justify the brand marketing and the other pieces we really needed to take on some more of the upside and then more of the risk along the way with selling tickets and promoting shows and and that's really where the business started to take off yeah we've had a lot of conversation um as it relates to the cars tour so with the the four owners that purchased the cars tour my brother being one of them and managing I've been helping manage that transition and so many so much of what you're saying you know we've we've tossed and we're only in our second year and so we're not ready to take over everything but it but it is you know you're working with tracks and you're talking about the sanctioning fees and what they how the track needs to make it work for what works for them all year long just like you said versus how we need it to work and work for our competitors and work for our event that's there they bring in other you know series and what not then that if weather comes that leans in to our streaming and whether we can go on time or not you know there's just so many things there that um that I can understand how that would um make it simpler but you do take on a lot more risk but ultimately more reward right that's right and it allows you to do things that you didn't think you could do if you're selling tickets and you create a ticket database you're creating a one destination for your fans you're creating that again you're just strengthening the community and trying to do it you know historically the ticket buyers at Williams Grove wouldn't communicate with the ticket buyers from Elora and and and that's what they want now they want to one place to go to shop and then we can guide them there that's our websites are really the you know the gate to get to how how do people interact experience and websites I'm generalizing the social media channels the different ways in which we communicate with our race fans but pulling that Community together and communicating with them in a way that you're communicating you know we're selling tickets at tracks in Texas we've never been to before well our ticket databases at at Devil's Bowl and cotton bow will help us sell tickets into Big O or into kennadale so creating that sort of that connectivity with the race fans has to happen more than just how are we reporting race results and and Reporting our schedule it's just it's evolving at a pace but that creation of that promoting arm the selling tickets that Community has allowed us to be pretty flexible in how we approach things either with the new promoters or with a new track or with a new series different things and how to it's it's uh it's moving pretty fast but that's what the sport evolves quickly I mean these cars you can see it here on the table the cars evolve we need to evve as a bu so um as you're making the schedules and and looking how far in advance do you work because we're like you said we're starting the year you're about to come up to your uh second event here at valua and um you know are you already working on 25 like I'm sure you are I'm run a business but you know how far out in advance and changing tracks and making those decisions and what things look like before you've maybe even you know gotten through part of your year here yeah we're looking I mean we've already announced our 25 Speedway are our our our dirt car Nationals and how that fits and the world is evolving with with some racetracks closing at East Bay and and Daytona moving their schedules around continuing you know so it's it you'd love to be able to say this is our date but there's so many Dynamics into what goes into the schedule and not only us but now we're managing other dirt series we're managing we're trying to manage around the NASCAR fans because they have an effect on how we do things and so it's a it's a constantly Evol we're trying to get out as far as we can the good thing now is we're looking as far down the field as we ever have you know we're not waiting until I remember in the early days going to the the promoters meetings in Reno everybody's negotiating their calendar and this is in December like you know we if we don't have something uh preliminary by July for next year we are in trouble yeah so it's it is we're looking into next year we're getting commitments from tracks uh that they want dates and how how what what date they want and then we work that in and then it's probably finalized you know the goal is always August September and it comes out in October November but it's it's a it's a such a amazingly Dynamic process um it's earlier and earlier and earlier yeah because you have to stake your claim so you mentioned you know kind of thinking about the Nascar fan um is that relatively new for you in the last several years of having to really you know think about where the Nascar fan fits into dirt racing because I feel like uh Kyle Larson and some of those drivers have certainly opened up the eyeballs to dirt racing and how much fun it is my son races micros and I mean it's the most fun next to next to Asphalt modifieds dirt racing is the most fun that I feel like we can have we talk about um obviously I've run an asphalt team but man we just love the dirt racing it's so fun um do is that something new for you to think about that fan or have it has it always kind of existed it existed before I but when when brutin and the guys decided to buy and humpy decided to build dirt tracks at the Speedways so that that that was that was set in place long before me so uh our our job is to continue to evolve that and and what's happening is is the as our our fans attention spans continue to shorten the dirt track racing tends to appeal to more but the hard time the hard thing now is are the NASCAR fans coming for four days or 5ay weekends can you build events around that or do you have to avoid it completely and that's that's the hard balance because when we built our two weeks at Dirk cor Nationals it was dependent upon the Daytona running the the two weekends at in Daytona yeah now it's not the case we can support we support ourselves without Daytona so so it's a constant Evolution so and Daytona didn't run that last weekend at night at all you ran against the Thursday night uh dels maybe but beyond that now they're racing Thursday Friday and Saturday night we're trying to race late models at valua so it's a mainly trying to make sure we mix in we understand what we're dealing with and but then going to Texas and going to Atlanta and and tallad those those things do have an effect and the fans only have so much money and resources and time to go to races so it is definitely part of what we're managing but uh we're not near as Reliant upon going to a NASCAR track on a NASCAR weekend to create our crowds uh and but back to your question about the awareness Campa you know the the crossover of competitors and drivers and and that has always been there I think that the ability our ability to to create awareness around what they're doing and showcase it has definitely helped both both both fan bases I I hope and that's that's our goal is to create awareness about Motorsports and if we do that we'll bring them in and once you get in you kind of get set addiction you can't get us you can't get the Cure you just got to keep coming yeah there is no cure for sure that's right that's right so let's talk about streaming um uh and I purposely didn't look this up so that I could uh maintain my curiosity but uh when you know talk about the idea of streaming owning it yourself just the whole why and how because to me that sounds super um complicated and super expensive you know to do it is definitely both is definitely both you know dirt Vision has been around we bought the dirt Vision brand in 2004 when we bought it from uh dirt Motorsports from Glen Donley it was a TV production company that was used to support this week on dirt and some of the other pieces uh in the Syracuse area mainly syndicated TV so you know our struggle with TV at dirt racing is has always been difficult because it's not really the environment's not conducive to live TV so when the Heyday when live TV was happening with Ted and with Glenn and the guy is we were trying to adapt our Sport and our entertainment to live TV and that's a that's a tall task because we we have all the Dynamics even different than you know with the track prep and the the short spurt racing and the different the different pieces it's a difficult task so what we knew that we wanted to and actually dabbled with full live streaming in early two mid 2000s 20 s and eight but the technology wasn't there for us you know the internet connectivity that required the different pieces just wasn't there so we actually uh used it only as our own TV production department but what streaming has allowed us to do is not we're not adapting live TV our sport to live TV it allows us to adapt live TV to our sport so it allows us to to Really uh portray what's happening at the racetrack on our pace and then create an entertainment value for for our fans that cannot come to the races so we've been we tried you know from dirt vision from all Races on dirt Vision only happened in 2017 so this is a real you know really short period of time here and then that was only with the world of Val sprint cars now we're talking about 70 races this year we're going to broadcast over seven or over 600 live dirt racing uh events on dirt Vision this year so to come from 70 uh to 700 in a matter of a very short period of time is a is uh is definitely an advancement of the technology the Staffing but it's a lot more complicated and expensive than people uh imagine but it's been a it's been an amazing awareness campaign is what it really boils down to yeah you can watch dirt racing just about any night of the week and you can watch it on our our platform or other platforms and and it really has raised awareness which is all we're after anyway yeah I read a story I think it was David gravel who maybe had gotten a sponsorship based off the fact that you guys were able to have the World of Outlaws on TV is I am I am I remembering that correctly and that was kind of a check check mark for you guys because I think about it from the standpoint of of my kid racing at Milbridge which is on dirt Vision um and I'm so thankful um and just all the different places we race um sponsors for one you know you're it costs money to do this and I'm talking about a 12-year-old kid trying to get sponsors and the other thing that you mentioned that I I just see um you know clear as a bell is how you do adapt it for the television and the streaming because people will ask me why I want to watch Wyatt on a Friday night and I'm like we're not going to race our feature till midnight so how long do you want to stay up you know um we start racing at six or seven you've got you know six divisions and all these heat races and beam and you can't by that point it's hard for me to even explain the format you know and they're like midnight how does a 12-year-old run at midnight and I'm like yes that's a great question I know you guys you know have your programs and and they're more condensed because you don't have all those divisions to deal with but um it's it's uh it's it's the dirt Vision aspect of it I know for Milbridge has been huge um and I can't imagine for all the other tracks and and just the visibility that gives the competitors and your series um and then for the fans you well it's it's being able to craft the story create and and the stories from Milbridge that's the beginning of a lot of racing careers so our our job is to nurture that through the ecosyst through through Milbridge is a strategic addition not that it's just we all love those little cars and I've been in midgets before and I love I love that and and they're great family and all those things that make Millbridge so special but we're really documenting when you think about it we're documenting the racing careers of these children that we are going to watch race and a at a worldwide level somewhere they're going to be stars and we're we're supporting that infrastructure and EOS system and creating that awareness at Milbridge and now we're doing it through the extreme midgets and then we're looking at other properties on the stock car side on the dirt car side is really easy for us to see we've got all all of the divisions to do that on the Open Wheel side we're working on filling in those gaps and MB was a strategic part of that and you know creating that awareness we have multiple handfuls of different ex examples where Dennis and Teresa Roth are racing full-time with us because they can watch their car on dirt Vision they can watch their car they can't they're at the age where they can't travel it's not and but they still enjoy it they still support they don't have a cure right they don't they don't have a cure they still want to be on the track but they can't go so they can watching and they can be engaged and as a as a as a as a fan base that's engaged that's all people want to be part of is that community so gravel we have lots of customers lots of sponsors that are there because they can watch their car on D Vision they can watch their car on streaming and then if they can't watch it that night they can watch it the next morning when they're having coffee they can see the Highlight it's we really are capturing so much more of the true raw part of our Sport and portraying that in a way I think that's you know we're creating great entertainment value and engagement with the race fans and that's all you can do yeah I think probably um I have this question I don't I don't uh and and you can just you know that vge what you wanted to vge but um in terms of streaming you know we our competitors in your series The Car Store series micro racing whatever it is this Grassroots kind of racing know outside of NASCAR we we're kind of fooled by what we hear in the NASCAR world as far as it relates to TV contracts and rights fees and all this kind of stuff that which um I know the cars tour is not you know doesn't we're not privy to to all that greatness but you know competitors and fans see the streaming and see want to participate in it right but I think um you know I think it would have to be true that it's just really a blessing that we have it you know and there's money to be made um at some point where it where it makes sense but you know the the newness of streaming um and the ability to provide these races is very expensive to do and I just don't think we're there I'm curious you know how how your competitors and your tracks and all view that and and how you deal with that yeah it's it's Again part of the difficult Balancing Act I mean the the piece that probably is when I when it comes to it there's a lot there's some pieces that are a little bit disheartening because the assumption is that we don't but the the fact of the matter is is that we do in different ways than they expect do we write everybody a check based on what the streaming was know you know but do we make investments in racetracks do we make race investments in events do we make investments in our infrastructure do we do we create awareness in different ways things that we believe is long-term investments in the growth of the sport we started that from day one absolutely so you know as it relates to to the extent of even putting in Lighting systems at racetracks to make sure the TV was right so it's it's hard to you know you kind of balance that in is it a direct Revenue share I don't see that in our model it's just not going to work because there's so many Forward Thinking Investments that we have to make to continue this path and for me that's is na that it's navigating that world balancing out okay the investment in World Racing infrastructure the about the investment in The Fan Experience whether it be buying a video board for every single one of our racetracks when we Haul them around the country yes added investment no additional uh sanction fee how do you create uh how do you create The increased Point fund The increased prize money the tow money the support for the the support for the uh owners through tow money and those pieces those are The Balancing Act and getting it in putting it in the right spot to make sure you get the right return on it managing the long-term growth of the sport and that's the hard part so you know for me it's the integration of the streaming making sure that the fan at the track doesn't when I started to hear some of the stuff in 2017 and 18 well for you guys at home here's the replay on dir vision and my fans are sitting there going where's my replay so it's like that started to now we're starting to encroach on what's The Fan Experience I do not want to encourage anybody to stay at home right so that that became one of the things that I'm going to be honest with you that disenchanted me with some of the coverage at the NASCAR races as a Gearhead I wanted to see the Telemetry and hear the crew chiefs talk and all the other pieces well you know I can see that on my TV a whole lot EAS if I can see it sitting in the grand stands right and that that was hard to do so I just wanted to make sure I tried to avoid that and try to learn from all of our peers and figuring out how do we do this so that I can keep my race fans coming to the races yeah good point and for me that was the real when you start investing seven digits on the video experience at the track for the fans who are already getting their visceral experience of the cars going by it starts to it starts to become a real addition to the at track experience and that's what I that's what we wanted to do and continue to do but that balance of where it goes the investment in the Motorsports part of the dirt Vision streaming piece flipping that model on where TV doesn't cost us money it's actually making us money that happened day one and and long term I can expect it to continue to grow as as we continue to grow awareness in in our fan base exactly yeah finance and marketing your Finance background I'm just really curious um I'm kind of I'm a black and white operations you know kind of mindset and and I look at the finances and how we do it I'm marketing is not my thing how do you balance both of that with the finance piece and then because as the CEO I mean you kind of got to have a broad spectrum of everything and where do you where do you feed on learning about all of those kinds of things and well it's for me it's to know my limitations so I know to know that I'm not I'm not a marketing guy don't ask me to look at a logo and pick between the two I can tell you which one I like better but I can't tell you the why that shape is there to create the the different parts of a logo somebody sees it you don't see it the same way as a creative person ex it's kind of black and white for me I can you know as a CFO you can make the number be whatever you want it to be right to sometimes but it's uh but no it's a challenge it's understanding my you know introducing the financial discipline into the sport was something that had never really happened before raising um you know tens of millions of dollars and and and allocating that uh sometimes I was a little tighter on the pur strings than maybe I should have been investing in growth so the hard part is balancing my my dad promoted Motorsports he promoted rodeos he promoted so I I kind of was grew up as a promoter kind of see could see that so so I understood the balance of needing to be the show but that usually costs money and how do you balance that in are we getting our money investment back so it's a mainly knowing that I'm not a marketing guy I'm not a marketing guy I'm not a marketing guy I love promoting I love entertaining people but I'm not a marketing guys so I hire marketing I hire marketing people I put a marketing uh marketing staff in place I I have to trust them in doing what they're what they what they do and and that's the hard part as a CEO they do that better than I do how many employees does World Racing group have full-time employees right at a 100 believe it or not yeah we I think we paid uh 275 or something like last week with contractors in part-time and so it's it's a lot larger than people realize it back to the expensive part people see the see this they hear about subscribers and streaming and all this stuff they don't understand the infrastructure that it takes to run it the connectivity that it takes you know at any particular point we could have 10 or 12 um broadcasts going on at the same time so that takes one per at least plus the whole team to support the infrastructure so any particular point on a Friday or Saturday night we could have 25 people working not even at the racetrack so it's um it's it's it's a tough piece you're managing people and money and money it's your most important asset and your most biggest challenge at the same time absolutely that's one of the things that I was able to learn from Mr Hendrick from day one was just people people people I mean you got to invest in them and uh and and figure it out because otherwise our worlds don't go around do they no they don't and you know our our Sports not really and it's hard to create a long-term career path people come in they they're really good at what they're doing but then creating a sustainable career path for them that's part of our goal and starting to figure out how to you how do you nurture the young the enthusiasm the high integrity people how do you how do you nurture them and keep them in Motorsports and create a career path inside the business and you know you come in as a competition director do how do you become series director how do you become uh an events Court you know how do you move through the business and that that's something that our particularly the the all of the people want now want to have a long-term path um for somebody and once you like I said it's an addiction too from a you do it because you love it um and that's I'm blessed to have a team that loves what they're doing yeah that's totally something here at the xinity level that we deal with is you know people wanting to use this as a stepping stone obviously into cup and whether you're a driver or a crew chief or a PR person or whatever it is I I usually don't have any problem keeping my operations people you know my human resources and accounting and it and all that stays pretty much in place but when it comes to the competition piece of it um you know they're they're looking for that growth and and there's only so much growth that can happen here and um you know it's it's another um uh issue with sponsorship kind of in the same light right because you have sponsors that are attached to drivers who move up and then that moves on so it's kind of a constant uh thing that we battle here is that change and evolution of people and and how do we how do we make them want to be lifers in the Infinity Series right right right if that's possible the best you can that's all you can do just try to keep it where people are challenged and feel that success yeah I wanted to talk about um just kind of uh the perception of you know what do you think the perception is of the World of Outlaw series and when you say the world Outlaw obviously it has all these connotations right and um you know just what does that marketing look like for you guys um in the series and and the perception that you want people to see yeah I want to see them as the I want people to see us as the Pinnacle of of dirt racing I want to see you know I want them to know what they're going to get when they come to the racetrack they're going to see the best accumulation of drivers in an environment that's visceral and they feel it and and this spring cars are awesome but the World of Outlaws racing the program the entertainment value the part of the the community really The Outlaws the World of Outlaws is is really just the name of the community we have some badass racing there's no doubt about that that it's just uh out amazing what these guys can do in the car and not only in the sprint cars but on the late malls but what it what we want which is why we've always had open pit area always I want that people to feel connected to it for some re you know I want them to feel whatever it is it's a personal attachment to the racetrack you can get people to come out but until when they're connected personally it becomes a part of their lifestyle and that's what we're after with the World of Outlaws how do you create it to where they feel like they're part of something special they can escape from whatever they're going to escape from uh for that moment in time they come into the racetrack or watching it on TV and just enjoying themselves watching some really amazing entertainment and if we can do that that that's my goal for the World of Outlaws is to become and then to become as awaren it as possible I don't have to change a thing we're not going to the next level we're not doing any of this other stuff we are going to just make people aware of what we're doing and invite them in and my goal is to see if we can do that as to as many people as possible and entertain them along the way have you um experienced with the world racing group and in your series um the influx of younger Racers and and balancing that against the star power of the Steve kiners of the world and you know the people that have come before them that you know we talk about this in in NASCAR you know uh my dad in particular didn't start racing till he was 28 you know and and and took his first lapse in a in a stock car in the cup series and now I'm raising a 12-year-old racer you know so I I I battle this with myself um you know on what that looks like but what's that experience like um in the World of Outlaw series and the dirt cars and and um how is it changing and how are you well everybody wants with that everybody wants to live this accelerated lifestyle right so that so they now now now now now like on the World of Outlaws side I mean I was there for Kyle larsson's first win at Chico and he was six I mean we don't let them race until they're 16 I have to have this conversation once a year with an somebody ambitious dad that's my son's the next best thing guys listen 16 it's 16 these cars are there's no reason there's plenty of races so you can go race someplace else when they show up they're going to when they they're this amazing person they're going to win when they're 16 in day they're still going to be amazing so the hard part is balancing that accelerated lifestyle to the expectations and everybody's on on the chip especially at a lot of people going to be on the chip at the racetrack so but it's just balanced like stick to our guns it's 16 on the World of Outlaws we got plenty of other places for you to go racing uh managing those pieces but you know it's hard you're not going to slow anybody down uh you just can you just have to stick to what's best for the business there and what's best for the sport because the last thing I need is to be talking to somebody about somebody uh doing something getting hurt or you know the the risk is still very high and mitigating risk in this business will be the thing that's I mean that is the highest number one thing on your radar it is mitigating the risk is the one thing that's the single point of failure for us and we just got to keep managing that and and we have great relationship with our with our insurance companies and all the rest but you know managing those expectations and giving them a place to race whether it be in the micros or the midgets or other places where they can race in their youth we enjoy we want to see that I grew up again as a fan at the RAC track when I was four I want there to be those Lifestyles created around it and and people do crazy things for the kids right so I've I've been there done that so uh I just want them to know that that we're consistent and professional on that front and just be patient patience here will help yeah and how do you see uh you know what what do you feel like builds um these drivers you know Persona and Charisma and personality that are coming into the sport well you just named it that's the they have to be connected people want to be like them that all when you look at all the people that were our there was this a lure of what they were doing that you wanted to get to know them you wanted to be like them those sorts of pieces so it really becomes how how good a person you are can you be the kind heart can you be that amazing race car driver do you want to be somebody that you people want to be around in the pit area around your and that's really just building that Community those are the people that will be successful some of the best best guys and gals in the sport are there because of their relationships and what they what they were like not how they performed on the racetrack and that's that's that's what you know you got to continue to perpetuate that you know people can only go so far being that great a race car ever and if you're not a good people person can't create the relationships the long-term sponsor connections the long-term fan connections then you're going to be shortlived in this sport it Leach up and spit you right back out yeah I think about it like you know and I I've heard this all my life with my dad he's just like me you know I feel like I can sit down and have a beer with him or or or sit at the dinner table but he has a superpower right he could like see the air at Daytona or whatever it was right and I think that's that that is how people want to see these guys they want to see them just like me I have that connection and they're just like me but man they have the superpower to take this Beast around the racetrack at these exhilarating speeds and do things you know race side by side and still death defying right we want that to be that case and what they do is extraordinary but you know they we want people to to see them as they're available yeah they're available and you can connect with them yeah exactly all right so um want to talk about competitive series and uh the the introduction obviously high limit last year and the introduction of um uh their new program and and talk about the world racing group and the World of Outlaws um you know payouts and programs and how it all works for the audience um even for myself I'm not super familiar with it but I want to talk about that and and how that has how how you've how you're managing that and working through that and what that looks like for you guys yeah no it's uh you know my job has been to create opportunity for everybody right so we create opportunity so uh I can only fill so many weekends with the World of Outlaws schedules and if there's desire for more they're going to that this opportunity has come up and that's you know I I take pride in the ability to grow the sport and everything I do is still going to continue to be about growing the sport so you know it um the competition is there and it's always been there we always competing with somebody yeah so whether it be high limit this year the all stars the ASCS or Kennedy soccer and baseball and all the other entertainment value that we have so we've been competing our entire lives so competition is not new and uh direct competition just makes you hone your decision-making skills so it's um you know I'm take I'm very proud of creating opportunity for 20 years I believe Sprint car racing is in a better spot than it was um over in the past so for that I'm I'm very proud of that and and creating opportunity you know it our business model is based on how we got here and the evolution to where I think it's going to be and I'm I'm going to stick to that and we're going to be true to what we are going to be we're going to stay stay the course on entertaining fans bringing people out creating the community being true to what the World of Outlaws is creating a roster of drivers that's unmatched in the sport and then an entertainment value when you come to the racetrack you know what you're getting so we're going to stick to that um you know the payouts and all that have been evolving over time I we when you look at the point funds we we still stick to the same thing we've we we we reward drivers for a great over-year an annual performance we have big paying prize money we want to be a part of the biggest shows in the country and uh we want to figure out a way to reward the teams for that commitment to us in a way that matches what they need for us to so uh for us it's it's trying to stick to our you not getting too distracted with the competition because we've been competing our entire every business is competing you guys whether it be in a car down the street you know the two cars are going faster you see who's faster abut it's really about stick to what our commitment is to the race fans and to our team and and then and then excelling I I can't you know pursuing excellence and if we do that then we'll whatever part of the world we get I'll be real happy with but you know the the people ask me well you know you're doing this because of that well no that's been in the process for a long time you know we've we've been increasing our Point funds you know we're paying triple what we paid five years ago for our incentives to the teams and uh different pieces of that yes they're aware of it because we have somebody to compare us to so I'm I'm I'm okay with that Mor come out of the bag right because you learn more because now there's something else to talk about right that's right and you have to you're allocating resources as you know i' I've always been very consistent with I'm going to I'm going to strengthen World Racing group I'm going to strengthen the RAC trcks I'm going to strengthen the teams I'm going to strengthen the the delivery to the race fans and some version of that's going to get a priority every year you can't everybody can't be top priority or you start spreading yourself too thin so just continuing to make those Investments so that we are on a long-term path to make sure we can continue to do this and that's my goal well and it says something when Brad sweet shows up to your first event right I know he won your first event but when they're still coming and participating there's something to it right no that's right no I I I I've I've been very clear on my message I don't care what color the car is once it comes in the racetrack we we want everybody to come we want everybody to have a great time we want it's we're not going to there's no bias it's it's fair but the guys that stick with us and are committed to us long term are going to be rewarded for that yeah and nothing wrong with that nothing wrong with that that's what they agree to and what we agree to and my goal is to continue to make sure I can make that number grow for every yeah and that's the same I mean in our sport you know you have you sign up to run points in a particular series and you have you're on the owner's plan if you run with a full-time driver etc etc so there's lots of similarities there that that make that I mean and that makes our investment worth it from the competitor side right that you have that kind of system in place because you know we for my standpoint in NASCAR I need the longevity and the stability to be there for me to make the investment every year every year so right works for your competitors um what about I want to know uh your your thoughts on Charters you know it's such a big Topic in NASCAR with the cup Charters obviously High limits has talked about Charters um you know what what are some thoughts there um I I don't see them being successful in our world um when you look at what we're trying to do I'm not managing 40 teams for 40 spots to start we've got 24 spots and we've got 400 competitors across the country so what I need to do is make sure that we're compensating people fairly we're creating rewards and incentives and we're creating prize money and events that continue to grow so again the the the money comes inbound it's pretty simple it was historically it was fans and sponsorship for us we didn't TV was a minus number there was no question that TV was always a negative number for a world racing group and World of Outlaws now it's a positive number it's creating those inflows and and creating a growth plan for everybody involved you know I don't know what the right number is you know I've never seen the charter agreement that high limits are proposing I know that the charter agreement is causing a lot of an animosity right now in the NASCAR world yeah so I'm not you know but we're managing 400 competitors we're traveling across the country we're only bringing 12 to 13 14 17 on The Late Mall we're bringing a certain number of of full-time teams you know to the point where we only travel in and there's only 40 cars I'm really going to be that that's not our buiness that's not our business model so creating The Balancing Act of how everybody's compensated including the local and the regional Super Regional teams that's an important part to me in getting that managed in and right now it seems to be working so right now I don't see any any place for that in our business uh nobody's tried it maybe hopefully we all learn something from it you know NASCAR's tried it for seven years and they're running into hiccups too so yeah know and then you know there's obviously always a chance to learn yeah right but you know for us you know I'm not I don't see it right now in our future I I can totally see that I'm thinking about um you know I I reached out to a lot of our cars competitors and just talked about as we were moving into this year talking about our purse structure and we really don't have a year- end points fund and things like that and just really thinking I said what's important to you and they're like it's important to me that I can show up to the events that I'm able to show up to based off of whatever um you know Financial backing they have or whatnot not so um the the long-term year end isn't as attractive because like you said It ultimately ends up with there's in our in in our Series in particular there's you know maybe there's 11 to 15 that can do that all year long but like you said there's 60 to 80 competitors that can come out to an event and so then how do you you know make that event the best that it can be um and uh so yeah I'm I'm you know I I'm I don't know how that would work um the charter situation I know that you know particularly in NASA car um it it's created a barrier of Entry quite frankly um and now has it been some more lucrative for them to have some guaranteed numbers on the team side and oh great yes absolutely but it has become somewhat of a barrier of Entry to um you know what you can do and how you can participate and what you I mean for somebody like us who's been in the sport this long and then wanting to maybe dive into Cup racing you know it's a it's a it's a big decision these days well I don't I don't know what the numbers look like anyway so if you consolidating it into five or 10 teams how much gets that consolidation of wealth concerns me a lot so how does that how does that happen and and you know again I need have to make the economics work for everybody do the best I can at it anyway I don't know what that number is I don't know how how much should be allocated to those teams or not and then you if you create this like you said a barrier to entry or consolidation of wealth in sport that is not what the world of outlas is going to be about yeah yeah very very true all right so you've raised some yourself tell me about you still dabbling a little racing yeah no I've never been a very good race car driver I I enjoy it I have I have a good time that's right yeah what do you race what what kind of stuff do you enjoy well I still have a Sprint car won as a as a car owner I'm enjoying that a lot now too so I've been one locally here with Jake mlan I've done some stuff there but I my I race a little stock car uh I have a Pro Stock in the Northeast which should become the national dirt car stock car class but I've not really been successful doing that yet but I have a great time racing with the guys you know again it's it it was just trying to broaden my perspective as a decision maker I enjoyed racing I i' raced some before I started with World Racing group just a whole lot of MCA stock car around Dallas and I just enjoy it just I'm more of a tinker Gearhead guy and and I like I end up having to fix my race cars a lot so so it was one of those things it was it was a good time for me and and that and over the course of um my career I've had a chance to play in a Sprint car and a at the Chili Bowl and and the a dirt late model at valua and see faster get really going around that place and so it's just again it's it's it was fun for me it's still fun for me and as long as it's fun for me I'm going to have some version of a race car for me to go out and play you know it's hard for when I go to the racetrack I want to play and people come up to me and I'm now I'm working it's like so it's a difficult but um I just enjoy being part of the group and and it it does broaden my perspective to help me understand okay it's expensive to go buy race tires it's expensive to go well that body panel is it plastic should it be aluminum is it should this is like you know when I get my money out and pay for it uh you know buying pit passes and all those pieces it's it it helps me understand the whole system and um I'm blessed to be able to do it because most of the time I'm doing it it's because my team has got the event under control and I don't have to really work there so but but it's again it's just as a as a car guy I just enjoy it and I I love the community I love who I race with uh with the Pro Stock series up in the Northeast and I just I like being able to to just jump in the car put the helmet on and everything else goes away everything else goes away a lot of um it's fun and like stress relief kind of like just you know be in a different world right not your everyday business world so I know there's lots of great world um World of Outlaw events dirt car events what's what give me give me some top five events that if you're a fan and you haven't been out to see uh your series run where where should they come wow five out out of 250 well I mean top event from each division there you go no that's even harder oh my go see just give me some top events no here you go no that's it's it's it's great uh I have so many to choose from it's it's amazing I really enjoy Ian there's nothing about the community at the Knoxville Nationals the campground at Elora the the pit area at peely or at uh at pred dirt classic uh the just the the whole environment of pressing the the speedway to the limits at valua you know it's really about the community people where we're Gathering all these people that it becomes a family reunion for them you know it's uh it's something about uh seeing the scenery at Miss Calistoga with the back mountains in the background there's just so many things that you know pick one and come out and take a look that's that's my goal for the race fans pick one come and take a look uh the history of the LA you know the first and the last race at at Devil's Bowl were meaningful um it's just there's so many different things I still can see the grand stands full at Syracuse the last year what we're trying to do Now with uh we're doing ongo uh the Hell Tour and of itself isn't one event it's a whole this this month of of craziness and these guys are are it's amazing to watch them there's so many different aspects it's pick something and come out and take a look at it yeah and um for me the best racing is still at peely with at Kenny shers track I've never been to peely one of the ones I haven't been to minia Elora for me that just that you can see it's you know running 55 laps in less than 10es minutes and I see Sheldon lap up to Fourth no green no no yellow flags and it's just Insanity um it's just so many different moments in time uh and there I don't know where the next one's going to come from and that's the beauty of it I don't know we're going back to valua this week we're going to be at all these amazing new RAC tracks we're going to be at all these amazing historical tracks what are some of the new tracks that are on the Series this year oh don't start me L we have got so many um I mean mostly for for us the the hole in my heart with losing Devil's Bowl we're at kennadale which is where I I grew up racing my stock car a little bit and and just down just south of downtown Fort Worth kennadale Speedway that's going to be a good one we're going to we're going to be hanging from the rafters there Big O Speedway um it's there's so many with the late model series I can't even start to list them it's it's it's the beauty of it we can we can move our series around we can adapt them to the Speedways we can adapt but the the Staples still stand there you know there's nothing they're going fast at hu it's it's just just so many different places um you know friends at Beaver Dam I missed the old clubhouse at Beaver Dam it had a it was just so many different things about it um so yeah overwhelmed kind of thing about it actually yeah I've I've learned a lot with Wyatt racing uh dirt racing and uh on the dirt and and you know he he watches nonstop YouTube and everything under the sun and and I didn't even know he knew so much about the late model drivers and I just uh for Christmas he wanted uh some of the late model guys diecast and this that and the other and you know he's telling me names and you know I mean if you obviously Brandon Shepard and there's some that you you know Jonathan Davenport there's people that you've heard of and then um you know he's like my favorite driver is oh gosh I don't even know Tyler somebody maybe is there a Tyler there's a Tyler Tyler might be Tyler her I don't know but he's I mean he just it's just so fun to uh listen and and like you said there there is a lot going on that's the one thing that and particularly again you know my background in NASCAR hearing all about you know is NASCAR what it used to be do you have the same fan bases what are the TV ratings doing d Everybody Wants to debate all this stuff there is so much racing going on in the United States of America everywhere you look when I get on my race pass or when I get on Race monitor to to to look for my son's event on what I'm doing I am amazed at you know you know 40 to 50 events every weekend somewhere a race fan can catch something somewhere every single weekend of the year every single weekend most of the time four or five nights a week absolutely there's something going on that's that's the beauty of it most it's alive and well I know that we fight a bunch of challenges and like you said just keeping keeping the whole ecosystem healthy and and all but uh it it's it's alive and well and it's alive and well because of people like you well it's it's alive and well because of the community we built and the the community that continues to grow like you said the race fans evolve the sports evolving the entertainment's evolving our communication is Evol everything is evolving how how do we position it so for the best chance of success going forward that's right and how do we everybody bring a friend that's my that's my theory this week every year this is my theory this year if you go into the racetrack bring a friend bring a friend show them something ince introduce it to somebody and then give them a chance to to see it and then we'll keep the ones we can and then we'll keep doing the best to keep keep as many as we can so it's that's that's my ask for all the race fans bring a friend bring a friend to the racetrack and then we'll we'll spread that re you'll do the rest right do the rest bring a friend we'll entertain them and we'll introduce you to all of our friends and you can just see how crazy we really are all right last question what Legacy do you want to leave uh at World Racing group wow uh I want it to be better than it was when I got here that's what I want it to be I want I want to put it in a position that it that the foreseeable future there's a success path for people really just to to entertain people that I wanted people to see that we really did try and we really did make progress against a really tough time to evolve the sport the the the early 2000s the the the late 2000s through the Dynamics of bringing sport parts of the sport when we when we bought the World of Outlaws there were four full-time drivers and seven employees we bought um from the business from Bob mem had passed away and it was really lost and when we bought the business from Glen Donley it they you know it was just in a different place so my goal is to make sure that I've positioned it when I'm done in a spot for success in the future and that's my that's my what I want to leave behind so it's it's a challenge um it's a dynamic I never kind of expected my career to get to but for me it's about leaving the Legacy that I've I've I've left it in a spot that was better than I found it and I've positioned it as best I can for the future excellent well this has been really interesting I've um learned and grown a lot and uh I can tell you're the right man for the job you're going to leave a great legacy I can tell for World Racing group so thank you so much for coming on with me Brian I appreciate it it's my pleasure thank you for having me all right well that's it for this edition of business and Motorsports um hope you enjoyed it and we look forward to seeing you again [Music] soon

Channel: Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s Dirty Mo Media

Views: 33,768

Keywords: Dale Earnhardt Jr., Kelley Earnhardt Miller, Kelley Earnhardt, Business of Motorsports, Racing, NASCAR, Podcast, Dirt Racing, World of Outlaws, Sprint Cars, Sports, Brian Carter, Dirtvision

Id: BxRlkwaiYzI

Length: 59min 50sec (3590 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 06 2024