- Yeah. - Are you the moderator or am I? - (laughs) No, I guess we'll find out. (Annette laughs) - Someone said to me they
didn't know Julianne had a talk show.
(both laughing) (rhythmic jazzy music) - Hello, my friend.
- Hi, you. - Hi. I'm so excited that we're
doing this together. I really am.
- Me too. - I couldn't be more pleased. - Wow.
- So- - Mm-hmm.
- Maybe we can talk a little bit about "Kids Are All Right." - Okay.
- Which is 13 years ago. - Right.
- If I remember correctly, we had very little rehearsal. Like we kind of met one day.
- Yeah. - We rehearsed, I think for an afternoon. - Right. - And then we were
literally shooting, I think- - And we took all those family pictures. I remember that because Lisa was insistent that we have actual family
photos in the house. Do you remember we went
out and played basketball with the kids and stuff?
- Okay, right. - And did kind of, you
know, goofy family shots. And that was sort of our rehearsal, right? - So, yeah, we just dove right in. - Yeah, with Josh and Mia.
- With Josh and Mia. - Both who became like major actors. - Amazing.
- Like really who were just, you know, teenagers at the time,
which is incredible, right? - Right, and Mia, I remember
in a scene where she really had to go for it.
- Yeah. - And she had a big emotional scene. I remember how she just
would not overdo it. She had such a sense of truth that she still does,
I mean, as an actress. - Yeah, brilliant actress, really? - Yeah.
- And so are you. - Well...
(Julianne laughs) I know that the world
wants me to shut my mouth and sit down and wait to die. But I didn't think you did.
- Stop. - I can't. - I texted you right after
I saw "Nyad," and I just, your work is just spectacular in it. Just really, really beautiful.
- Thank you. - I was thrilled by it. You inhabit everything that you do, I think, so beautifully. You bring so much truth
and so much groundedness and so much humanity. I think you brought her so much humanity. First of all, what made
you decide to take it on 'cause it is really, really hard. - It was just an incredible read. - Yeah.
- Right from the beginning. Just immediately. I knew that Jimmy and Chai
were going to direct it. - Mm.
- They had never done a narrative film, but they'd made some great documentaries. - Yes, yeah.
- Including free solo. So I knew that. I didn't know them,
but I knew it was them. Then when I read it, it
was just one of those, I'm sure you've had this experience where you just say, "That's it. I'm doing this, I have to do this." I loved it. And I loved how complicated she was and how interesting she
was as a human being. As well as being this person who was this phenomenal athlete. - Mm-hmm. - And it wasn't until then
that I, after I said yes, and then I really thought about it. And that sounds ridiculous,
but that's the truth. - I get it, I've done that- - Because I was just like,
"I've gotta do this." And then I got in the pool
and I've been a diver. I grew up in San Diego, I've
been in the water a lot. I worked on a boat, but I had
never been a swimmer-swimmer, like a competitive swimmer
or a lap swimmer, whatever. So I got in and started swimming and I thought, "Oh, my God,
this is, can I pull this off?" You know, and I have to
be in a bathing suit. - I know.
- Which for some reason, I hadn't even thought about enough. (both laughing)
It's like shit. - Listen, I'm winded after
two laps in the pool. I'm like, "Oh, my God, that's hard-" - That's exactly what I did. And that's just because of kicking. When you have a strong kick that, so that's the skill I had to learn. We hired an amazing coach,
Rada Owen, who's an Olympian. - Right.
- And she lives in the area. She coaches kids. She's just... She also loves swimming still, even though she was a serious Olympian, you know, and some people get burned out. - Yes, a lot of athletes do. - Right, she's not, she loves the water. She said, "Okay, swim for me." I swam for her, she's like, "Oh, yeah, we'll make this work." And then she just basically got in the... First, she got in the water with me. - Right.
- And she, you know, watching her swim and like,
she showed me her flip turn. I mean, it's just like gorgeous. - Right. - She started to break it down, and it's like any physical
skill when you break it down, it gets really complicated. - Sure.
- You know, your right hand's doing this, and then you're kicking,
and then you're, you know, the shoulder and then the breathing. And it's all, you have to break it down- - Right, like the minute you start dancing and you describe the steps, you're like, "I can't do this."
- Yeah, yeah. - Yeah.
- So then you just practice and practice until it
starts to become natural. Diana always breathes to the left. So, and she breathes every stroke. And, of course, there's the boat. So we had to build the boat. Jody's there, she's the coach. So all of these logistics actually had to be worked out, which we did. And I just practiced and
practiced and I was scared. I was just, but that's the kind of the... That's the, what is it? That's the something of it. That's the nature of the work
that makes it worth doing. It's like you're kind of scared, but you're also exhilarated, but you're also like, "Will I get there? Can I get there?" The movie got pushed, thank God. I had more time. - How long were you?
- Oh, I don't know. It was a few months, so we, I swam for at least a
year before I did it. - And did you swim every day? Did you go to the pool every day? And how long would you spend in the water? - When I was training, like an hour. - Mm.
- An hour was about as enough. And she was good that way. Like, she taught me how not to overdo it, and how to do enough and I
think that meant a lot to me. Her professionalism and
the fact that she knew how, no, you don't have to overdo and that's good and that's
enough and we're gonna get there and it's gonna be okay, and all that. - I love a teacher.
- Yeah. - I mean, more than anything,
when I'm learning a skill for a job, I just, I usually fall in love with my teachers and I get very attached. So that's great, but yeah.
- Yeah. And you know how it is
to learn a new skill. It's just so great for the
brain, it's great for the soul, and creatively, and all of it, I just- - Could you feel yourself getting better as you were doing it? - Did you start feeling like, oh- - I did, I did, I mean,
I'm pretty hard on myself. So that's another thing
that the pool teaches you because when you're in the
pool, you confront yourself. It's like a lot of different sports. I remember when I used to
practice a lot of yoga, I remember a teacher saying
that to me, you know, "Here, you face yourself."
- Mm. - And so you do face yourself because there's no distractions. And so, I did have to
learn how to be patient and, you know, say,
"Okay, you'll get there." And I loved it. And I began to also feel
the benefits from it because it's so great for the
central nervous system, and- - Uh-huh. - It helped me sleep better. - Right.
- As it continues to do. And I'm a better swimmer now
than when I made the movie. I came to that conclusion
when I was visiting San Diego where my parents live and
there's a neighborhood pool. I swim in there, and I
thought, "It's really long." It's a great pool, and
I thought, "Yeah, okay. This is a little less effortful," yeah. So now, let's turn the tables if we can. And there's like a lot of
things I wanna ask you. - Yeah. - So I'm gonna do that.
- Okay. - I'm gonna take you to-
- Don't go- - One of the performances. - Don't go too far back.
- I know. You wouldn't be able to remember. - Exactly.
(both laughing) - Okay, one of 'em is,
and I told you this, so I'm gonna say it again.
- Okay. - "Maggie's Plan."
- Oh, my gosh. - One of my favorite characters
that you have ever done. - Thank you. - And I just wanted to ask you, Rebecca Miller directed this movie. - Yeah, she's a friend of mine. - A close friend of mine.
- She's a phenomenal woman. - Yeah.
- A great writer. She writes prose, she writes her movies. She's a director.
- Yeah. - She is truly remarkable. I love the movie and this character. So was that something you cooked up? - We did. I mean, it was something-
- Together. - It was in the screenplay,
but it was what, but I think it was our
collaboration, our knowledge of each other that kind of shaped her. And we both grew up with
mothers from other countries. Her mother was Austrian, my
mother was from Scotland. - Oh, okay.
- And we talked about the nature of that, about somebody who seems,
you know, you meet somebody, you meet their mother, for example, and they, you think to
yourself, "Why is that? She seems different. She seems weird." And you know, you had, and Rebecca and I were saying, "No,
she's just European." Like, so to a little
kid, people would say, "Your mother talks funny." So I had an accent, and same
thing with Rebecca's mother, or "Your mother does your hair in a way that seems strange." Like, you know, in two braids because she comes from somewhere else. So we wanted to do that with her. I wanted her to be that person that- - She was weird. - Yeah, weird imposing. And she, you know, she
dressed like she came from somewhere else,
and she had an accent. And she maybe was sort
of, you know, there's that kind of wonderful moment
where I see Greta's character and I kiss her, I come really close and I kiss her on the face and it feels sort of like, it's
like too close and too much, but it's like, she's just like, that's what I'm gonna do, that's
how I greet you, you know? - Right, the other thing,
the moment in the snow. - Oh, yeah, yeah.
(Annette laughs) - As you know that was genius. - Help, help me.
(both laughing) - That was genius, okay, so that's one of my favorites.
- Thank you. And then another one of my
favorites was Sarah Palin. - Aw.
- But I mean that like, seriously, because for
people that don't remember, She was such a well-known
figure at that point. She was John McCain's running mate. She was an unknown politician until John McCain brought her into the presidential campaign.
- Right. - And Tina Fey was doing her own SNL. - Yes.
- But then you made the movie "Game Change."
- Yeah. - That was such a great
performance, Julianne, because you got her, but you didn't condescend.
- Right. - And you didn't, you
played it kind of straight. And yet you could see the artistry, meaning your choices about
showing us her own blind spots. - Right.
- I don't know how to put it. - Well, she, you know, once again, it's like when you're playing
a real person, which is what you just went through with "Nyad." You have this responsibility
to that person, to who they are. And then, she was also
someone who was very- - Which you did.
- She was so present in the culture, like everyone knew her and she'd pared it like you were saying. And she had a very, very
distinct vocal style. And so that was the thing to me. I was like, "If I get this voice wrong, people are just gonna be
like, 'Forget it,'" you know? Because we heard her all the time. So it's like, you wouldn't believe it. You can't tell the story in the audience. You owe that to the audience. So that's the same thing
that you were saying. Like, I said yes to it, and then went home and went, "Oh, God, I can't do this. Is this too much work?" And literally, we only had two months and I wiped, it was the
only time in my life, the only thing I did was
take care of my children and work on this script and that voice. I didn't go out to dinner. I didn't go meet friends. I didn't watch television
other than documentaries (indistinct) I did nothing because I was so scared about getting it wrong. - But just that, you know,
and you found the right size. And almost less than she is in a way. I mean, you really were very deft. - Thank you.
- And I loved it. So now we can talk about
your most recent movie. "May December."
(Julianne laughs) - Might you marry a man like Tom? I was young and he was, seemed perfect on paper. It was a different time. - It is so unsettling. - I know, I know. - It is so effective. And, once again, you found a way where you're very compelling as her. And I don't know enough about her to know. In fact, when I watched the movie, I really didn't know anything. I purposefully just went in.
- Right. - We're just gonna watch it, blank slate. - Yeah. - So- - Well, she's not a real person. - Okay.
- So she's not. So, Gracie Atherton-Yoo is not, she's a character in a movie. This is Samy Burch's
first-produced screenplay which is really, really remarkable. The screenplay actually went
to Natalie Portman first, and Natalie as an actor and
a producer, sent it to Todd, and then Todd slipped it to me to see if maybe I would wanna
do this role opposite Natalie. And so it all came together
really, really quickly. And so I think it's inspired by the Mary Kay Letourneau story. - Okay.
- But it's not that. So there are elements
that she took from that. But the most salient
fact about the script, and the thing that makes
it, you know, similar is that Gracie Atherton-Yoo is someone who had a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old boy when she was 36. And this is 20 years hunts. And she has gone to. She went to jail. But when she got outta
jail, they got married and they had these
three children together. And Natalie Portman plays
an actress who comes to observe her. 'cause she's gonna make a movie about her. The hardest part really is like, it's about somebody giving
a performance in a sense. You know, because she's got
to send her narrative out into the world, and she's
giving it to Natalie to observe. She's saying, "You're
gonna play me in a movie. This is who I am. This is my story." And for her, it's a great love story. - Yes.
- That's how she survives. Right, it's like she met her
prince, she was the princess. They fell in love and
lived happily ever after. And for that to happen, she
needed to elevate this boy to a man, which makes her, you know, she's the child and he's the man. So that's the narrative that she's pushing forward into the world. Her childlike quality, her
hyper-femininity, you know, somebody who feels very
genderized is, you know, allows herself to be like,
"I'm, you know, I'm the child. I'm the girl. He's the man." But there's a big
difference between the story that she's telling and the reality. And in between there's
this incredible tension and volatility. And, you know, she's
someone who's transgressed. So it's like, how do you
justify your transgression? She justifies it by saying that she was, that they were in love. - Yeah, and I got the feeling
from the way you played it, that I never doubted that
that's what you thought. - Yeah.
- I never doubted that for you, for the character- - Yeah, yeah.
- What, that it wasn't genuine.
- Right. - And that it wasn't real. But I also felt you, Julianne, were able to, like, there's
that moment about the cake. - I hate things like that. And now I have this cake
that's gonna go right in the garbage. - That's such a great
thing what you did there because it's so incongruous.
- Right. - And yet you got it. Like, I got it.
- Good, good. - 'Cause like I understood her. - Right, right.
- And that kind of, 'cause I didn't know
what you were gonna say. - What's she upset
about, why is she crying? What's going on, and it's like- - Yeah, that was great. - As Natalie is like, kind
of knocking on the door of her life and pushing on her story. You know, Gracie's holding
onto the story so hard to this, to her own performance, right? It's like you start to feel the fishes. - It didn't seem like you were performing. - I think it's like her identity, you know, it's about identity. How do we create identity? You know, it's like, what are
we saying about ourselves? What does she say about
herself all the time? So it's like, you know, is there identity or is it just culture? Is she just cultured this
way and has told this story? You know, and as an actor too, you realize you're always looking for signifiers for the character, right? Like, this person is like this, like that. - It's interesting when you
talk about it that way, 'cause how do we identify ourselves, right? How do we establish our own
identity within our own? And it's in relation to other things. - Other people, yeah. Other things, other people, other places. You know, I think that I, from moving around a lot when I was
a kid, one of the things that I noticed was that
every time I went somewhere, the culture was different. So I was like, "I needed
to adapt to that culture." So my behavior had to change. If people spoke, you know,
with a different accent, you sort of tried to adopt that. People dress differently. If they dance differently,
as a kid, you did that. So you start realizing that behavior is mutable,
right, behavior is not identity. So, if your behavior can change
like that according to where or who you're with, then who are you? So yeah, I think that's
fascinating as an actor 'cause you're always
trying to figure out who that person is, you know, in relation to everything else, into the story. - Yeah, and I appreciated what you did. And something just kind of fascinating about it. - It's not gonna be another night. Just one big push. If you can really bring
it, if you can really, really bring it, then you're
gonna reach Florida today. - So what do you think it was about Diana that made her want to
do this at, you know- - Yeah.
- To complete that swim. - I was really interested in how she had to grab that as a 60-year-old. She had failed when she was 28, 29. She tried a couple of times. She was a world-class marathon
swimmer for her twenties. Her big dream was Cuba to Florida. She wasn't able to do it. She retired.
- Mm. - She went into broadcasting. She was on NPR. She did all kinds of interesting
things, lives, you know, she's very sophisticated intellectual. She did all kinds of interesting
things with her life. And then at 60, it was like, she was like, I have to do it now. And I think the thing
that really gets me is that she felt her life mattered enough. That she mattered enough.
- Mm-hmm. - That she needed to do it. And, yeah, she had trauma as a kid. I don't know that she would use that word, but she did, she had a
really tough childhood. She wrote a very good
book called "Find A Way," which is kind of what
the movie's based on. - Uh-huh. - It's based on trying to do the swims. So in the book, she talks about kind of what she went through, but
I think that's the thing that really gets me is because that whole issue of
self-esteem and self-worth. And so, in a way, it was
her saying, "My life matters and I'm gonna do this thing." So it was kind of irrational,
you know, because she was 60 and then she failed and failed and failed. - Yeah.
- And it kind of wore everyone out.
- Yes. - Everyone was saying,
"God, Diana, this is... It's great you wanna do this,
you know, we admire you. And you did swim." I don't know, would you know, one of the attempts she got very, very far and she just didn't get there, so- - It was interesting too, you know, the way I only know of her. - Yeah, yeah.
- I don't know her and, I don't know her and, who is kind of, it appears
to be seriously self-involved who is kind of, I, it appears
to be seriously self-involved where Jodie says to you, you know, "Don't talk about yourself too much. Just try to again," then you, they cut to you just saying, "And then
I did this and I did that, and I wanna do this, and
I wanna do that, and- - You Know, and she does. (speakers talking over each other) So she does have that, and
she knows she has that. - Yeah.
- But she is the most charismatic woman. And so when she comes in
and she's got her stuff and she's got her stories,
and she is a storyteller, she's kind of undeniably
charismatic and interesting. - Right.
- But yeah, she has that. - Mm-hmm.
- And many of the great athletes have to have that. I mean, who swims that far? - Nobody. (laughs)
- Like, and so you have to have kind of a superhuman nature.
- Yeah. - To, you know, to have that aspiration. - Also, the relationship between you and Jodie was so beautiful. It was really great. It was just, it was wonderful to watch the two of you interact and to feel that the nature of
that friendship, that it was that important to you both, that you mattered that much to each other. And that she would do that for you. That you would ask her to do that. - Oh, absolute.
- And that she would come through and all. - And they are soul sisters. They are lifelong friends, Bonnie and Diana, and Jodie
knew them both really. But she had known them before. So when they brought her the movie, they told me they were
gonna offer it to her. And I thought, "She'll never do that." - Yeah. - I don't know why I thought that. I don't even know her, but
I just kind of didn't know. And, so when she said she was interested, and then she came and met me, I could tell she was like, all right, so what's she like and
what's this gonna be like? And then she had so
many good ideas, right? So many good script ideas. So many good directorial ideas, quite frankly, she just, you know, she just like knows the business. - Right. - She's been in it 57 years. - Well, also the screening where I saw... I saw your movie at the
Hampton Film Festival. - Oh, right, right.
- And Bonnie was there, and she walked out at the end
and I was like, "Oh, my God, Jodie like totally captured that person." Everything in glasses.
- Right? - Yeah, it was really,
it was really fun to see. - And it was kind of cool. I mean, it was, the irony of the strike was that Bonnie, because she's not a member of SAG, Diana is, she couldn't go out. We couldn't go out.
- But Bonnie did. - So Bonnie kind of got
to be in the spotlight, which is very unusual because it's usually Diana
who's in the spotlight. - Yeah.
- So it was quite cool. - Well, I remember knowing of his family. I mean, they were the only Korean family in the neighborhood at the time, yes. - The young guy is great. - Oh, Charles Melton. He is wonderful. - Charles Melton?
- Yeah. - Wow, I was really taken with him. - [Julianne] Yeah. - And I felt very sympathetic towards him. - Of course, yeah. - The kids were great. - The kids are great, right? - Yeah, yeah. - Everybody in the movie
was so spectacular. DW Moffett, who plays my ex-husband. Do you know DW?
- Yeah, I do. (speakers talking over each other) - From the New York Theater scene, right? - Yes, yes. - So I know him from New York and he's actually Head of the
Acting Department at SCAD. - Oh, okay.
- Yeah. He'd actually done a role
in a Julie Taymor movie, "The Glorias" that I did down there. So we'd kind of been in touch and then he was gonna play this. I was so happy that Todd cast him. 'cause he's so good. He's just phenomenal.
- Yeah, he's just like completely real.
- Yeah, phenomenal. - Yeah, you don't feel
like he's an actor at all. - Yeah, so all of those people, every, I think we were really,
really lucky with our cast and it was just absolutely top-notch. - And it's brave.
- Yeah. - And it's strange.
- Right. - It really is. I mean, you know, and
Natalie is incredible. - Oh, she, just love her. - And how did you work out
the relationship between you and Natalie and did
Todd help you with that? And how did you guys figure that out? - Well, very much like
the "Kids Are All Right." Which we shot in 23 days. We also shot May December in 23 days and had no rehearsal. - Did we shoot "Kids Are
All Right" in 23 days. - 23 days. Yeah, it was 23 days. I remember it's like, you
know, it was like, doof, and it was over. But yeah, so the same kinda thing. So we didn't have any rehearsal either. And I think that the really challenging
thing about this too is that Natalie needs to be
able to imitate me, right? So, at one point, they
were nervous they'd have to shoot Natalie before I got there and she wouldn't be able to see me and could I talk to her like on a Zoom? And I'm like, this is gonna be impossible. And then it turned out we, it
all started at the same time and we could shoot fairly
chronologically, which was lucky. But I needed to figure out who Gracie was. And kind of, once again, once my, what my signifiers are gonna
be, what are the things that Natalie's going to be
able to kind of latch onto? And then kind of doing some research and reading about the case
that it was inspired by. You know, that's sort
of where I discovered this narrative of her
feeling very, very childlike and very feminine. And I was sort of messing
around with vocal things and vocal indicators of that kind of youthfulness. And I started thinking
about like a speech thing like a lisp because it's like we associate that with children. I made a joke today to somebody. But you remember your kids are so little, when they're really little, they sound like they have accents all the time 'cause they just have these baby voices. So I thought it'd be interesting
if somebody, you know, had that, and I also
gave Natalie something really concrete to do. - Concrete to do. - And the sort of the... And feminine gestures that,
you know, sort of a very, you know, Gracie's just
very lovely, you know? So all of that. so that I talked about with Todd and kind of brought it to
our first scenes together. And then Natalie started, you know, working on that in real-time. So we'd be doing a scene and I could see I'd,
you know, do a gesture and then I'd see Natalie outta the corner of my eye, you know, do that gesture. And she did a wonderful thing
too, and Neil appreciate this. She managed to kind of complete these actions
in such a flattering way from like, to my character. It was like Elizabeth was admiring Gracie as she imitated her, right? So it allowed me to feel good as a character at the same
time that she was doing it. Except for times when the scenes got maybe more antagonistic. There were times where
it felt like, you know, there was some friction and stuff. But I just, and then I
also saw stuff in the film that she was doing imitating
me that I didn't see, of course, in the set
because she was doing it when I wasn't watching. It was wonderful. But much like working with
you, it was so phenomenal to have a female partner
and to have a real teammate and to build something together and to tell a story about these two women and their, obviously,
ours was about a marriage, but this is about people who
are challenged by each other and intrigued by one another, and- - You were kind of dangerous. I didn't really know, yeah. I didn't know what you were going to do. - So here's the thing too. I was saying this is like, we... When people, when someone has
crossed a boundary, you know, and that's a huge one
about that, you know, to be with a child, right? - It's really huge. - Like, you're gonna forever feel unsafe and you're not gonna know why
you feel uncomfortable, right? You're like, "Why do I
feel like it's dangerous? Why do I feel uncomfortable in this room? Something's wrong,"
like, we kind of pick up on that as human beings. You're like, this is unsafe. And so I think that sensation
kind of runs through all of it, you know? - Yeah, it really does. I mean, when she's on
the computer, you know, looking at kids-
- Yes, right. - Who could play the boy, yeah. It's chilling.
- Yeah. - You know, really, it's effective. And, yeah. Reminded me of that whole thing, which I know it's not based on, but it did made me think of it because I- - This is, I'm digressing here, but I was just thinking about how wonderful you were in
"The Kids Are All Right." And some of the things that you would do. And there was that scene
where Mark Ruffalo comes over for the first time and you're, (laughs) you pour yourself a giant glass of wine. And I come over and I'm like, you know, "Go easy on the wine, Hun." And you're like, "Yeah, go
easy on the micromanaging." (both laughing) - Who doesn't relate to that moment? - I know, I know. (Annette laughs) It was like, it was so, it was just so... It was so wonderful.
You were so wonderful. Oh, thanks, well, you know,
Lisa Cholodenko the director. - Yeah. - And she co-wrote the movie. She also knows where to put the camera. - Mm-hmm. - And I know one of the scenes that when we were at the
dinner table with the kids and Mark comes over for
the first time, that scene. And we're all sitting at the table and you're talking about
your landscaping business. (both laughing) I, that's a good one.
- I know. - I know, I love that, I mean, it was so- - People still talk to me about it. - I bet they do.
- Sure, I mean, about the movie.
- Yeah. - And I remember, I went to Cuba on a cultural exchange
trip for the academy. And I had a guy come
up to me in the airport and he was just saying, he
just kind of grabbed my arm, and just said, "Hey, that movie
helped me in my community." - Oh, wow. - Because there was a lot of
homophobia where he was from. - Right. - And just in his particular neighborhood. And that somehow, the
movie helped bridge a gap. - Because it was, you know, at the time- - At the time.
- It was revolutionary. People were like, "Oh, my God, a movie about a family
where there it happens to be a gay couple." And, of course, you
realize things have changed because that doesn't
seem so unusual anymore. That people are married and have children or raising them in a community. And, but I had so many
people come up to me too, kids saying like, "I have two
moms and that's my family." Yeah, yeah.
- "And thank you for that movie, and it
really meant a lot to us." - Yeah. - And it was so, I mean, how wonderful. I mean, we had such a wonderful time and it was such a spectacular experience. But it also feels good to have
contributed something like that to our culture. If it's, you know, if
it's meaningful to people, then it's just great.
- Absolutely. - Yeah. - Where you're going to, Florid? - Mm. - That way.
(water trickles) - You're going to Florida Key West. (water trickles) - That's it. - All right, you're doing great. - So this is gonna sound really
crazy because I am an actor and I should know better, but
when I saw you in the water and you look so terrible, all
I thought was, "Oh, my God. Oh, it looks so sore. She looks so terrible. And look what you know, oh, my God." I mean, and I, and of
course, it's makeup, right? But I bought it entirely. It's so gruesome. You're so swollen. It looks so painful. And I had a lot to do with you too. Like, you know, what you're performing at that moment is just, you
know, someone, I thought that the water looked thicker. Like everything slapping you in the face and it just, it looked so arduous. But, so what was that all about, like how- - Well, we had great prosthetic
artists who helped us. We had stages of kind of the
level of distress that she had. And we had a lot of
documentary footage, of course, of the real Diana. When she finished the swim, one of the things I've always
found very illustrative was that she almost couldn't
eat for almost a week because of the inside
of her mouth was so raw from the salt water. But I think they did a great job because they also don't really
call attention to the work. But that the prosthetics
are so artfully done and so incredibly well done. But, yeah, the swelling and the distortion of
the face is what happens to any marathon swimmer. And certainly happens to
somebody in salt water. So, I'm so grateful to the makeup artists that worked on the movie
because they made it gradual. And we had, you know,
definite delineations. I got in the water with all
the prosthetics as well, which they figured out
how to make that work. Which was kind of amazing. Because in fact, you know, in real life, her face was incredibly,
her lips, all of her skin, you know, the burn, the zinc and everything was, that was very real. That's what happened to her. So we tried to get that right. You know, we did, we tried to make that as real as possible.
- Oh. I mean, it was dreadful. It was really dreadful to see. And like I said, I bought it. I think you're right, I
think it's that progression. - Yeah.
- So, because you don't, it's not like you're, you know, look one way and then
suddenly you look all swollen. You just watch this until finally- - And the great made
makeup artists know how to do it in such a way that
they're not calling attention to it, but they do it just enough. And so, we did tests and
we worked a lot on that. - And I also totally believed that you were in the middle
of the ocean. (laughs) - Yeah.
- I mean, - And then when you told me, when you were sitting in my apartment and said you were in a
tank, I was like, (slaps) of course, you were in a tank. But I didn't feel that way, you know, watching it.
- It's a 70-meter by 70-meter tank in
the Dominican Republic. It's adjacent to the ocean.
So it sits next to the ocean. There's a big platform just to completely destroy
everybody's illusion. (laughs) Right, right.
- There's a big platform that all the equipment and all the cameras
and all the crew is on. And then the tank is out there, and then the ocean is out there. So when they're shooting in
that direction with the cameras, you know, it just looks like the ocean. And then they've also have
blue screens on the side. Yeah. I've got my fringe going.
- I see that. Yeah, it's very nice. - So it's on the side that they
can project stuff onto that. - Uh-huh.
- So that's how we did it. And you know, there's a group of people that are moving the boat. So there was a bunch of us in the water. It wasn't just me, although
it looked like it was just me. - What did you feel like
at the end of the day? Were you absolutely exhausted every day? - You know, I was, and I
remember on Saturdays, it's funny 'cause I remember the Saturdays, 'cause that's when we would
shoot, Monday through Friday. I remember being tired and everything. But, you know, it was also great. I loved being in the water. It was kind of a relief to
be in the water, I guess, because it does kind of
so calm me down in a way. So it's a great element into
which to work, you know, actually, and to do all
the different stuff. - Did it feel private to you in the water? - Yeah, I guess that is true to a degree that you do always enter into that. There is a kind of solitude to it. And I mean, Diana's regime for how she handled the solitude in the water and all, oh, my God, the training. Even just, not even the swim, like at the back of her book, she chron, you know, she made a list of
all her swims and every day. And oh, today was six,
today was only five. Oh, then eight, then 10, then 12. And that's how she
slowly built herself up. So yeah, she would do songs in her head and she would, she knew that if she sang a certain song 241 times, that was like a certain number of hours. And she said, "I never lose count." She would count in different languages. She would count in English, and then she would count in French and she would count in
German and in Spanish. - What about you, do you
have anything that you do? Like when I asked you
about the privacy thing? Like, I'm always thrilled
when I'm able to, you know, I feel like it's an elaborate game of pretend like I love car acting because I can never get the
camera in there with you. It's kind of on the outside or behind you. And so, it makes me feel like
it's really, it's private. - Yeah.
- So, and I just thrill to it. So is there anything that you do that, or that you really, really
love about film acting? Or do you have any kind
of rituals around it, or things that you need to do or? - I remember many years ago
when I was just starting and I didn't really think
about film acting that much, I was in the theater and I had a lot of misconceptions about what it was about. And I felt intimidated by it. I didn't know what a set was like. I didn't know what marks were. I didn't know about close-ups. But I remember reading
a book that Liv Ullmann, I guess it was kind of an interview book, I think it's called "Without Makeup." - Oh.
- And she talks about loving the closeup.
- Mm. - Because it gave her a chance to reveal something. And that the camera does so much for you. And I think that having
done so much in the theater, I do feel the relief of the camera. - Yeah.
- And that you do have to like it, you do have
to want to invite it in. - Yeah. - And sometimes, there'll be a scene which will be a memorable
scene, whether it's you, anybody in a movie. And part of the reason it's
so memorable is actually, because of the way the camera moves and the way that the director
understood the moment and went in or pushed in in a certain way. So to me it's like a great gift. - Right. - And I, so I welcome it now, I like it. Even though I'm also scared sometimes. - Right. - Are you scared-
- Of a cam? Well, you know, I find that the thing that I love most about film acting is that we're all on the same team. You know, it's like, I feel
like the camera is my friend because the camera has
an operator behind it and has a, you know, a dolly
grip and has a focus puller. And they're all those people that are operating that camera. And we're all doing it together,
and everybody on the set, we're all doing the same thing. And so, when I start
my work, I feel like... It doesn't feel like there's any, there's no performative element to it because there's nobody to perform for. It's like we are making something. And so, that makes me feel, I get really, it gets
really exciting for me. - Yeah, yeah.
- And it can be really loose in a way that I wouldn't necessarily be in front of an audience where I feel like, well,
they're coming to watch me. They're not with me. You know, they're not, we're
not making it together. So I find a lot of relief actually. - Yeah.
- In film work. That way it feels safe,
you know, it feels safe. - It feels intimate.
- Right. - And you become so attached
to everyone around you. And I know a lot on something
I've just been working on, we were working with a study
cam operator named Simon. And he's just such a talented person. And he became like, one of, it
felt like he was a character. - Character, yeah. - Because, of course, with the study cam, they can follow you. They can come in. They can move. They do become part of the scene. And also, you can cover
a lot very quickly, which is why we often use
study cam Cam. (laughs) - Yes, exactly. (laughs) - 'Cause we get a lot done.
- Get it done. - We get a lot done really quickly. But, yeah, I love the intimacy and the camaraderie among everyone. - Yeah. - As you said, the entire
crew, the actors that in many circumstances,
that is the joyous feeling of just that common goal. - Right.
- Yeah, it is. It's intoxicating.
- Whoa. - Thank you, Julie. - Thank you, it's been great
talking to you, Annette. So great, thank you.
- Aww. - It was a pleasure. - Hmm, the pleasure's all mine. (upbeat jazz music)
