Journey Home - 2019-02-18 - Chris Padgett

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program and as you can see is another one of our wonderful winter episodes of the journey home our guest tonight is a returning guest Chris pageant former Baptist Assembly God Nazarene maybe a few others tucked in but he's also a little bit like me a homesteader that deals with critters once in a while I hopefully have a chance to talk about that so Chris welcome back to the drama it's an honor thank you it's good to have you here I think about the different ways our lives have passed besides the fact you were in the journey home before but our time in stupid Ville together you had a house just down the road from where I lived that's right yeah we must have just missed each other so you made your break towards the wooded area and we moved into the metropolis of Steubenville but our families both shared a similar infection and that we had chickens that's right I'm pretty sure that we did not break any laws but we did have chickens in yeah we were that family I wasn't that bulb to do that I got out to the country but anyway it's good to have you back it's an honor so as a returning guest even though your previous episode is posted online so somebody can go and watch your episode that was about nine or so seven or eight nine years ago about seven years ago yeah okay well the Lord continues to move us and then so let's start though by asking you if you would to review that ya journey how did the Lord awaken your heart to the church and then we'll go from there it's crazy it's this is my 20th year of being a Catholic Easter of 1999 we entered the church and I still sometimes pinch myself thinking I cannot believe that we're Catholic because like many of your guests there is no way becoming Catholic was on my to-do list before before that happened in fact it just was remembering how there was a time previous to of course my journey into the church that we used to put gospel tracks on cars of people who were at Mass I'll never forget that I was at Our Lady Queen of Peace in Bradenton Florida and we were so on fire for God so pumped and we wanted everyone to have that relationship with Jesus and so we were radical we'd leave gospel tracts and like the occult books at bookstores when they used to be in the malls and we would just spend our time talking about scriptures and the latest books that we were reading we were we were all in but I was thinking about this a little bit when I was a small child my parents were probably not terribly religious in the beginning but something traumatic happened my my parents got divorced and I think that was the the springboard from my mother to just kind of find our faith again and I have a memory as a small child of going to a tiny Baptist Church in Valley City North Dakota we were living there in the middle of nowhere and and we had a faith life I learned all sorts of great songs all those cool songs I remember the teachings of the scripture on felt board and how powerful the felt board was and Sunday school I think it's where I first ate glue but moving on so most of my childhood was really going to church because my mom I think she just knew that that was what was missing when I'd spend time with my father there was no there was no interest in you know going to church if I wanted to go I could walk down to like a Pentecostal Church that was nearby I had really no you know intense interest in necessarily being religious when I was with my father because I was kind of allowed to do things that would never have been allowed to do with my mother I say all of that because something happens I think you know in a kid's life when they're raised in a Protestant church which is what are you gonna do with what you've been given and are you gonna make it your own and from my mother it was very important that my sister and I had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ I mean she knew she needed him and she could tell a story of how her broken marriage brought her to Christ but but she also knew that we as small children needed Jesus our life and so from the Baptist Church we started going to an assembly of God Church and a Nazarene Church even before that and all of those moments were key moments for me as a small boy because I think in various ways I learned that Christ wasn't just information not just somebody recorded in a book but was somebody to interact with and communicate with I don't know if you got when you were a kid those read through the Bible in a year little brochures and I always started out so good and Genesis was amazing and even there's a small kid I got captivated with the stories but boy I was there to say folks even the coming on network publishes I read the Bible in the Catechism in here in case you're interested go to CH never go anyway the reason we have that is because it does spark the instant opening the Bible and Sampson is an amazing figure when you're a small boy I mean some of that stuff's pretty hardcore anyway long story short was when I was in the Nazarene Church we were still living in Valley City North Dakota by the way Jeff Cavins must have still been a part of that community or he goes just left yeah it was pastor Wiseman who was the pastor there it was this Nazarene Church and I still can remember this day where the music minister was singing that 20th verse of just as I am and the call was given do you want to give your life to Jesus and I felt like that church was 18 miles long and I knew I was being convicted to make a personal response and I as a small little boy I finally got up walked down to the aisle and I still vividly remember thinking as I got to the front of that church like so what do I do now like I didn't I knew I was responding to Christ I just didn't know what I was supposed to do and my mother came up and the pastor prayed with me and of course then was let's get baptized because in obedience to Jesus we should be baptized and I I of course I got baptized and I still remember that in the Nazarene Church like many Protestants growing up though I had periods of time where I was really in the zone walking with God and then not and so I would recommit my life to Jesus like thousand times and at the Assembly of God Church man that was when a thief in the night was out and everybody is talking about the rapture and I knew every time I walked into the house and it was empty that Jesus had left me because I was so horrible it terrified me and I man alive I just knew that the God was wanting more of me it's kind of even as a kid and so I would recommit myself and I would try and I just struggled to maintain that consistency you know got to college I knew that God was doing something radical in my life and we started going out and I was really a big fan of David Wilkerson and time score church you know we ended up having that church in in New York City and before that teen challenge and and it was it was amazing to me to watch his journey and I wanted that conviction of a relationship with Christ that would cause me to get out of my comfort zone and share so even in the early years of college we'd go around into the inner city of where we were at and share the gospel and hand out tracts and just talk to people about the faith I was all in and I think part of it even as a kid was I knew that I knew that Jesus was real I had felt him I'd read about him in the scriptures my mother was leaning on him we learned how to pray we were memorizing scriptures like I knew that Jesus was not information but a person who was transforming me but I knew also that that I wasn't fully able to thrive the way I wanted to and it was fascinating to me because in college I'll never forget we had a guest who was a convert to Catholicism and this was a baptist college that I was going to at the time and I'm thinking who converts to Catholicism on purpose and I'm in speaking at a Baptist College no thank you it was insane and we're listening to this and I remember just talking and and I was frustrated I'm like if you know what he's saying is true is like what does that do with all of what we've been doing and what does this mean and I just was diving deeper long story really ultimately short was that I had a friend who was working with st. Joseph's communications the joke is that we stole about five hundred dollars worth of tapes but I didn't we just borrowed them and later this guy Matt told me that he felt like it was just an investment I was doing a band at that time it was a Christian rock man we were traveling around and in the middle of the night I started to listen to these tapes as we would drive from gig to gig I've had an experience at a diocesan youth rally where I saw confession being done and I didn't know what to do with that because I thought why are you being forced to go to confession and I saw this priest who with long hair who was like super fun and cool and I thought how is that allowed and then I never having all these talks about the Eucharist and what does that mean and and then of course Scott Hahn you know and all those tapes you know it just drove me crazy and also like began this life-changing journey funny enough we were in Conyers Georgia at a Trappist monastery it was think the monastery of the Holy Spirit and I'm thumbing through the books this was probably at that time and I found a book called journeys home I and there are more and more examples of people who intentionally became Catholic and I could not stop reading it like I was hooked my friend was reading GK Chesterton and he was reading Thomas Merton and I was reading Henri Nouwen and liking it and we kept saying to each other like why don't we have this depth in our Protestant circles and we'd been reading and trained in theology and it was it was good but it wasn't like this kind of good and I I was in New Mexico and I'll never forget this we were supposed to do a concert and this lady is talking to us about doing music for the mass and I remember panicking because we weren't Catholic we ever did music for the maths we just did concerts and all I kept thinking was like um I know a hallelujah I could probably do a hallelujah there's a hallelujah apparently here and at one point she stopped and looked at me and she said you let me ask you a question you're not Catholic are you and we said no we're not Catholic we just don't we shall do music for the mass we do concerts for kids the next day I they didn't let me go to communion and I was mad I was mad I thought why am i man I'm not even Catholic but I've been studying about Catholicism I've been asking questions about Catholicism I'm listening to all these Scott Hahn tapes and and you know whoever else was you know on those and then reading the journeys home book and in the guy hold of Carl Keating's both fundamentalism Catholicism and my brain exploded because here is talking about Chick tracts and Jimmy Swaggart which by the way I was accepted to his college and didn't go Keith green last days ministries I mean the hole that was my world and I just remember thinking like I think I think this is real now what do I do and we we ended up starting our CI a week because I knew that there was an out like if it didn't click I could get out and my mom when she found out that we were becoming Catholic she was like have you forgotten everything you've learned she was so mad and I said I think we're gonna have our kids baptized she didn't come to the baptism we didn't even know anybody who'd be godparents because because we we didn't we were Catholic and so we the priest was the Godfather of our kids that same priest ended up marrying my daughter and baptizing the granddaughter and it's amazing how that long-haired priest has been heard the whole journey wasn't on my to-do list but it was definitely on God's to-do list I guess is Chris pageant a couple things I know you summarized it think back if you will let's see you you had that invitation to come forward in the 20th verse of just yes by that time is just as I was you know because it's so you know there's something though significant about the invitation to get up off your what yes and stand up absolutely and move forward out into the aisle and come forward there's something important about that and I want you to if you will to talk about if just that moment in your life but compare it to how parallel that is on any mass getting up off your what to go out into the aisle to come down to receive Jesus there's a parallel there amen well it's ultimately about a personal encounter with Jesus Christ like we are invited to not just know about him learn about him memorize scriptures that speak of him we are meant to have an encounter with him and any Protestant that I knew in any church that I went to that's what we wanted we wanted a personal encounter with Jesus Christ that's why we spent so long doing worship music that's why we spent so much time reading the scriptures and praying together and over one another and and inviting Jesus into our life and that that response as a small child was was the appropriate response to the call call response like if you look at the scriptures this is part and parcel with what it meant to to follow Jesus I hear his call I'm going to respond and the times that people don't respond it is tragic the rich young ruler it is we don't know the end of his story but what a sad state of affairs to hear that he walked away you know disappointed and and sorrowful and imagine having your story for all time in scripture as a person that walked away I know and then you go just in the same chapter over and there's Bartimaeus a mark chapter 10 and I love that verse where Jesus basically says have them come to me and and write take heart rise he is calling you and what does bartimaeus do he goes to him and Jesus asks him what do you want and I think that's what's so awesome about that call as a young man or a young woman do you want Jesus in your life in a personal intimate way yes I want you lord and then we hopefully continue to have that ongoing conversion as Protestants but that's the reality of the mass a call a response Amen yes I want you in me I want that personal relationship with you and I always tell people if you are ever asked by anyone who's not Catholic do you have a personal relationship with Jesus you had better say yes not only have I had I do have and I will have because I am growing and what it means to say yes to Jesus every day yeah one of the dangers is that because our separated brethren used that idea so so much personal relationship with Christ and because we didn't use it as much in the Catholic Church yeah we got the idea that well that's a Protestant thing no no no no no in fact Pope Benedict that we should hide the books in front of me because I had a list of the times that Pope Benedict said we need to have a personal relation with Jesus Christ in reading Scripture sacraments of course Pope Francis says it always always been about a relationship with Jesus look at first John like that which we have seen what we've heard with our hands of a handle that's what I'm talking to you about it's not information it's a person I know Jesus I leaned against his chest I mean I was there at Calvary I know him do you know him and that's it it's always been that way when you listen to the tapes that you got from st. Joe's communication or read a few books like the journal book or other what do you think when you look back it was that open jury does Holy Spirit use to open your heart open that door you even just a cracked Catholic Church what what was it was that the logic was the reason was it the fact that it were real people making this journey sure I think in some ways it there's a little bit of all of it I don't it's hard to pinpoint exactly one thing I will say this if the books were amazing for me because I had that personal relationship with Jesus so I wanted to know why a person would intentionally choose to become Catholic at some point I was like what do Catholics say about Catholicism I know what Protestants say about Catholicism but what do Catholics Act actually say and so I was studying all that and those books were so helpful because one they had a real relationship with Jesus Christ and they longed and they ate to continue to grow on that so why would they say yes and a couple of things that stood out to me during that time and the one thing that pushed me over the edge was I remember there was a neighbor next to us and they were these Puerto Rican little Nate neighbors and we had just had a baby and they would always make a girl's gun boil and they would give us these chicken or ice in these beans so we would we love them because they gave us free fall they were so good to us and I remember but they had this like three-foot statue on top of their fridge and of Mary and rosaries all over and I'm thinking to myself what is the I cannot deny that they they have this relationship with Jesus there's no denying the way that they've loved us and cared for us and and I said so what is it that is the problem and I realized one is I have misconceptions about Catholicism and stereotypes I have this false understanding of what Catholics really are and the more I asked Catholics about teachings and read these stories the more I began to get the truth and at some point I was like this makes more sense than some of the things that I believe and ultimately the deciding factor was the authority of the Catholic Church and this was by far the the last you know proverbial straw because what I realized was that Jesus prays for unity right they're saying well you know you're casting out demons by the king of demons Beelzebub or whatever and she's like you're crazy that's a paraphrase and so what happens is originally Kingdom divided against itself is not gonna stand so I thought to myself what is the deal with 25,000 30,000 different Protestant denominations and at that point we had gone to tons and tons of different variables in terms of Christianity and I remember thinking some great people holy people personal relationships with Jesus Christ kind of people but but there's no consistency but there is consistency with the Catholic Church and what is the deal with that how can how can you say that it's no big deal when some of these doctrines are at odds with eternal ramifications like it's either baptized the infants that's legit or it's not or once saved always saved or it's not or you know fill in the blank the the gifts of the Spirit are applicable John MacArthur said no after the last apostle died but you know Jimmy Swaggart and all bunch other charismatic s'right they're saying yeah who's right and when it comes to things they have these eternal ramifications go into confession Mary my gosh what is that about you know all of these things and at that point though when I saw the consistency of Jesus right given that authority to Peter passing on apostolic succession I thought to myself okay I don't understand everything about about it yet but but I if this is true there's that consistency of faith of morals then that I have to become Catholic and that's when we decided to enter enter the RCIA and later after we became Catholic my mother said to me Chris you being Catholic is the most hurtful thing you've ever done to me you know when we became Catholic we had a couple national CDs and we had some success emember I had these books on a table with my producers and they looked at ad and they're like yeah I think one was a Scott Hahn book Thomas Howard I'm being Catholic and you know whatever and and they looked at me and they said you're not really considering becoming Catholic are you we had to leave the Catholic Church to find out about a relationship with Jesus and that I just knew I wasn't gonna have the argument with them there at the macaroni grill but I will say that it breaks my heart to think about that how many times I've heard that yeah you know I had to go somewhere else to find a relationship with Jesus and all I keep wanting to say is what do you think like the Eucharist is about it's this intimate connection with it's the most intimate we can be with God decided eternity it's all personal I remember talking about that with Benedict Groeschel once and that is this idea that so many Catholics leave the church and then find Jesus you know what's going on here what's what's the problem here and then that's a big discussion but I remember Bedrich one thing you did says well at least we need to celebrate that they found Jesus and and the one thing we can also celebrate is that we see the baptismal seeds coming alive yeah it said that they came alive up there right but we're glad they came alive now we need to bring them back to the fullness yes but now the question is how do we make sure those baptismal seeds come alive here and now in this rice another well let's talk about that because what we're doing Minister Lee with Catholic family and marriage is this very idea it's very evangelistic just a second I got up on my reading glasses because it's called the Catholic family in marriage ink Catholic BAM so this last year we decided to focus all of our efforts in what we see to be the ultimate crisis right now in the need which is marriage and family and with that when you gave up on the pigs and the chicken and all that no no we still are doing our home study I'm still they will work with youth all the time I'll be doing tons of stupid conferences this year but ultimately what we wanted to do is we recognized we recognize that not every marriage has a family and not every family has a marriage but but in both worlds there we have the ability to minister and it comes down to evangelization this to me is the ultimate calling I think of who I've always been as a lay evangelist but it's just really honed in is that you know I was watching an episode previously of you with another convert and you were referencing second Peter chapter 1 and I want you to know how special this verse is to me because Peters talking about all these amazing virtues the cardinal virtues the theological virtues and then he says something he's like basically if you don't have these you're ineffective and you're unproductive right and your knowledge of Jesus Christ and I always ask people do you want to be effective and productive when it comes to your ministry to your to your life your relationship with God yeah yeah yeah well some are blind and short-sighted do you know why and the answer is so powerful says because you have forgotten that you have been passed and cleansed from your sins this is st. Paul's message I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ in him crucified I have been crucified with Christ it's no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me write these verses this passion of st. Paul to keep talking about the gospel is I think the missing link that we we have assumed far too long that people understand their baptismal promises that that we have to read you know renewal of our baptismal promises and that's kind of enough but the problem is what we have is we have true Christians obviously through baptism in our Catholic churches but they have not grown so often in their relationship with Jesus Christ not because they don't want to but because they don't know and I'm not saying that that's not the case that there are generally speaking all sorts of people who don't have a relationship with Jesus that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is that this passion that that we had in our Protestant world growing up and sharing the story and challenging each other here's this worship song I'm listening to you that was constant but oftentimes in our Catholic churches it's in it's out I'm one and done let's get back to real life and I think that our seek the secret is to evangelize the faithful and to evangelize the unfaithful it's all about evangelization it's the power of God unto salvation for those who believe and if we're not preaching the gospel they're hungry for it they're gonna go somewhere yeah what's interesting is why did the Holy Spirit inspire Paul James John Peter to write these other books besides the Gospels so in other words we have the Gospels which give us the words of Christ they give us his story we give us his redemptive passion we have that so why do you think we need these other books well part of it was that the people who had already received those story had already been changed weren't living it that's right they weren't living it out they weren't getting along they didn't appreciate what their baptism had done yeah they forgot what that did they had heard the stories so Paul's got to write letters excuse me like Ephesians the whole book of Ephesians is about this is what baptism means now this is what you got to do this is how you live out your marriage it's not you live while you work because this is what baptism changed you you've been enlightened second Corinthians you're a new creation the old is gone I mean so just what you said that's why that Peter wrote that in 2nd Peter says guys he's not trying to evangelize new people he's speaking to people that already have it yeah they don't realize what they've been given well Linda and I with my wife Linda and I with our ministry we look at it like a stool when we when we became Catholic we had this one pillar a personal relationship with Jesus Christ another we had experiences with Jesus and we had a basic formation so when we started searching the Catholic faith a man pour on as much as you can on that stool because the foundation of that relationship with Christ was so real I want to know why I want to know why so deep rich catechesis huge theological arguments give it to me I'll take it all and you start to realize oh my gosh it's even more reasonable than the previous understandings I had but so often we I think what happens is that we look at people when we say more information more information more information and they have no experiences let's say very little understanding of a relationship with God and what happens is it begins to collapse and it can't maintain that heavy theology wait I'm not saying we minimize anything truth but I'm saying you have to start with the basic mechanics of what it is that we're doing here it's a it's a relationship and if you ask people what does it mean to pray to talk to God one of those answers gonna be like what does it mean to be in a relationship with your spouse with your children I mean they'll get that it's tangible its flesh and blood like you said yeah that that stool that you had before one of them the legs was your personal relationship with Christ and the other ones were experiential and the problem with the experiential ones you encounter people that have different experiences sometimes contradictory to your own sabri's those legs don't hold the weight of your faith and you're holding on to relation with Jesus which is a great I mean that's great yes but but that's why Scripture is there but you got a thousand different herb days and scriptures right so you got the church and sacred tradition to make sure that you could hold some way of your faith we're gonna pause there and we're going to come back in a little bit he's used up all his energy that's the program I don't think so Chris Paget's our guest we'll come back in a moment and pick up from there especially on how to live out this deep relationship with Jesus Christ [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home I'm your host Marcus Grodi our guest is Chris pageant and before I jump into it I just jump into the story just want to remind you about the coming on network ch network.org that's where I work and of course the coming on network exists to help non-catholic Christians particularly as well as fallen away Catholics discover the beauty of the church and if you go to our website you have lots of stories like Chris's and others that you hear in the journey home program as well as ways that you can connect with resources and get in discussion with others who are on the journey that CH network dot or Chris boy there's so much I want to talk about but I'm gonna throw as I did that you mentioned a recent guest I threw some scriptures at them and I'm gonna drop a bomb on you too because I want you to talk about this passage I'm gonna tell you this Hebrews six chapters four through six is one of those scriptures that many Protestants stay away from I never preached on this when I was a presbyterian because I believed in once saved always saved and I didn't know how to fit this verse into my categories as a once saved always saved because this first talks about people that fall away and commit apostasy and the reason I want to run this by you is what do we do to help people who've not progressed in their faith and drifted so the writer of Hebrews who I think was Paul to chapter 6 verse 4 says for it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened who have tasted the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit and that tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come if they then commit apostasy since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold them up to contempt now first of all I want to ask you what do you think the author is referring to when he says have been enlightened have tasted the heavenly gift have become partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come what's he referring to in there I mean I I look at it like this is you know you're all in when it comes to the life of Christ so but but I think this refers us to what's kind of traditionally known as that one unforgivable sin here's what we don't know is that is a timetable here I think ultimately what we're being told is if a person at the at the end of their journey this thing called life if they have partaken and all of these if God has granted to us buffet of incredible richness they've experienced it and then they say no ultimately there's nothing left then for them as they enter into eternity that can can stand in and make a you know some sort of a pitch that's worthy of being readmitted I mean here that's why we look at Jesus as the one advocate I mean is this great our mediator between heaven and earth so I and I was gonna say I can't remember the TV show I was watching but there's an episode at the end of this at the end of this program and so you're watching may know what I'm talking about where a person is going to a person's house to say they're sorry because they really hurt this person and they want to say this sorry and and the person opens the door understanding and the person that's come and he wants to say I'm sorry and the person inside just closes the door mm it's close to the door as I heard you say this it's like at the end of life God is beckoned he's giving everything and if the person closes the door to God yeah what is there when you closed the door to God right he's saying it's impossible and I that breaks my heart but I think that's where we're at and I think for those of you who have lost family members to whatever agnosticism in atheistic tendency or even a different denomination that seems to be anti-catholic there's a breaking of a parent's heart of grandparents heart family members heart but there's a lot of hope because the truth is there store is not done yet and and we pray and we ache and my wife likes to say this phrase is that we we maintain the path back I think some people have a tendency to try to like ok I'm washing my hands of you I'm still can't believe you do that I'm done there's nothing about that that will help so we have to pray we have to eat we have to love we have to find a ways to find a common connection there and maintain that path back because there will be a day where they ask themselves that question you know maybe this isn't everything I thought it was and you know there's the path I'm gonna head back when you read the early church fathers and other scriptures of course you see that many of the terms used in this phrase are sacramental words right yes I think that's the other important thing we want to say is that they once been enlightened in other words they were baptized yeah who have tasted the heavenly gift in other words they've received the Holy Spirit confirmation and and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit confirmations in Baptism have tasted the goodness of the Word of God Eucharist I mean so in other words when people receive Catholics receive the baptismal graces the confirmation confession the Eucharist we partake of this but unless you grow right unless you grow you can fall away yeah and even in the early church right from Nero all the way to Diocletian and others the truth is is that there were a lot of Christians that that tried to save their own skin and and they they walked away and then the church after the persecution ends they have to deal with do they need to be rebaptised like what do we do with them and they recognize no they don't need to be rebaptised like there's a repentance here and that's what we're gonna work with your story's not done I mean that's the reality I think ultimately if you ultimately say no to the forgiveness of God then you have nothing to stand with when you enter eternity except your own merits and really if we just live the best life that we could do all we've done is what we were called to do in the first place you were involved a little bit in Christian music yep so what we did it's funny that you you say that in a way we were a house band for a church that bought a mall and Florida and so every week we did the the music for this for this youth group we were kind of like it was like a David Letterman Show you know Jay Leno whatever Jimmy Fallon the whole point was you'd have this kind of couple fun crazy songs the guy would come out welcome everybody a couple more songs a worship song entering into the bang this message and then we would do you know kind of come to Jesus moment so we did that for for a long time and and then and then occasionally we would do some music for um you know whatever without all of our concerts ended with a worship component in everything that we did I love music I think musics a great catalyst it helps us to reach people who are closed often I think there's a lot of reasons why music is powerful but when I entered the Catholic I say this and I was thinking about this a lot when I became Catholic something died in me and I well and this is a real honest truth and I think many people who are wondering maybe should I become Catholic or not they're gonna understand what I'm saying because I knew if I became Catholic that I was not gonna be a pastor and ultimately when it was done I was done with my music and I was done with whatever I was doing with the youth eventually I would be probably a pastor cuz I'm a book of holic and I knew pastors got a book published budget and that's all I really wanted the thing was when I became Catholic I knew that there wasn't that that was not gonna happen and I died a little bit because I wondered what place do you have for me God if I become Catholic and I knew I didn't want to be a worship leader in a Catholic Church because I felt like to be a great worship leader in a Catholic Church a liturgist you needed to know the depth of what you were given in this heritage of music from Gregorian chant to you know you can skip some of the 70s but you know there's a big diverse opportunity there and I didn't have that skill set to do that justice I felt so I God what do you have for me and it was amazing I could not have written this there's no way I could have known but I just said I want to talk about you I want to I want to be all in so when I come you brought me here I'm giving you my family my life I mean our whole livelihood was based in ministry in you know churches so what do we do and I thought can we make a living just going from Catholic Church to Catholic Church they don't I don't know they pay their bills that's a bonus but and the thing is is that you we have a little phrase in our family you can't outgive God and to think about this journey that I've been on which began with people like you and inviting me to see things differently or the messages that we're being put out by st. Joseph's communications by tons of people Thomas Howard and Peter Kreeft and Hahn and and fill in the blank like there is a place for me and there's a place for anyone else who wants to come in because our church right now more than ever needs the late people to stand up and say yes I have a gift of music I want to serve yes I have a gift to be able to tell stories don't want to serve I mean there's room if you will for all of us to do this talk about and I think you wrote about this and in one of your books but the struggle between you have a large family yeah you your wife and children nine children how many chickens I don't read you have even family life yeah you have all that and ministry right and and the devil can use that oh all the time to tear apart someone who has a great witness oh my gosh one of our closest friends there that we thought they were the ideal couple perfect everything's great that's the ones we want to be like and they got a divorce or like what we what we just came out with this book marriage and ministry how to have one without destroying the other and after 25 years of full-time ministry we learned a few things along the way and you know one of the main things is that we both have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ we still get excited talking about it look I know I'm a little animated and I know I get a little excited but if I can't be excited about this then then what I come on this is it this it's like like the joy of the Lord is my strength I mean we talk about what we love and when it comes to my marriage in my family and what we're doing we love our faith is it perfect no just come anytime and watch us try to pray a rosary it's like we're on the brink of L hello we need like almost a priest at all times to to bring us back from the that's crazy they're gonna choke each other with their rosaries they're not praying properly it's hard and doing ministry it's so easy I tell people you cannot sacrifice your marriage on the altar of ministry and boy it's not just a Catholic problem anybody who's done Protestant minister he knows the demands of ministry it's a full-contact sport and there's a lot of people that have lost it but I think I think they don't get this idea your wife doesn't need another husband she needs you your kids don't need another dad they need you your church could have another pastor and be okay but you'll never you'll never have someone take your place when it comes to marriage and family our guest is Chris pageant Chris so you've you talked in that book about the struggle between a married man family and ministry yeah and I'd like to talk you to address the struggle that's happened in our leadership in the church sure because again I I know I've mentioned this program it reminds me of CS Lewis's book on the Screwtape Letters that as soon as you respond to the call of Christ to give your life and service you've awakened the spiritual battle absolutely that this is one of the huge points I think what happens is if you choose to serve the Lord in any type of ministerial capacity it's like a warning sign goes throughout all of Hell to pick it up in other words like you're intentionally waging battle on the enemy when you do ministry I'm gonna seize back these people who belong to Christ and that makes the enemy angry where does he attack he attacks marriages any attacks families because this this is a reflection of God's love in time and if he can destroy that then he is going to Mar people's understanding of how much God loves see those vows are so important right sickness health rich poor doesn't matter no matter what comes our way circumstantially I'm all-in I love you and when you have that division begins and you have a marriage basically falling apart it basically bespeaks to the world see even this type of love can't endure so let's just do whatever makes us feel good and I always tell because Linda and I do all the pre-k nuts for our diocese for our couples getting married we always tell people look it is hard in this day and age to be a person of integrity and faithfulness but God wants your marriage to succeed more than you do and that's the great truth is that even though all of hell might come against you and you might feel overwhelmed if you and this is a friend a phrase from a priest friend father junk Gordon he said if you want what God wants it's gonna happen and if you want your marriage to thrive it's gonna happen cuz God wants your marriage to thrive it's not gonna happen accidentally but you pour yourself into that marriage if you want your kids to know God then you are in good company because God wants that as well and their story's not done the last thought and then change wherever you want but I'm I was added about a year or two ago back to back two days ago I did a Men's Conference and then I did a retreat for the retro vibe conference which is a ministry for marriages and chaos and I said this I said it's very real many of you might know that husbands your job is to get your wife to heaven and right wives who are not there at the Men's Conference obviously their job is to get their husbands to have him but then I said it's your job as a couple to get your children to heaven and day one and then day two a man came up to me in tears crying saying I knew that my job was to get my wife to have him but I have never heard that my job was to get my children to heaven and they were broken because they knew they had dropped the ball when it came to share that faith with their kids this is what we need ultimately we need we need a revival in our homes what does the Psalms say is the beginning of wisdom the fear of the Lord okay when you read the early church fathers and you see it especially in first Clement you beg you see it a number of the protrude rods every single time the writer of that epistle is telling parents how to bring up their children every single time what do they say bring them up in fear of the law yeah it's interesting even the ecclesial documents that come out like familiars can sort see own and the like what you have is you constantly have this education of the children that's kind of in there like there's a formation right there's something that's important and I think that we forget that and honestly all of us are susceptible to forgiving at times you know we have to be careful and guard against being blind and short-sighted but what has Jesus done something in your life share it with your kids I had the coolest experience this last summer three of my kids came home from a conference they were so jacked up for God it was unlike anything that had happened and my kids had been to eight thousand conferences many of them I have done and and they came in and they were so tired I mean pumped talking about it like what God had done how would God had shown himself real to them and I looked at my kids and I said what you're feeling now is why I do what I do it's like we're on a same playing field we could have a conversation that wasn't just dad saying saying saying but but but it's it's in some ways it's all of it right I always tell my friends you're gonna be part of my kids conversion like we're doing that for each other more faithful we are the more correct me up to think about this and this is something that happens a lot and happens in Protestant Rome when you got your pastor and you got kids and of course when you're an evangelist you got kids or when you're you got journey home program you got kids you know and you're thinking there that someday they come on and they hurt somebody else hate now say teaching you all these years amen talk about that the struggle when your children find Jesus through somebody else we gotta praise God amen that's right we gotta praise God I don't care like give me a like I know the foundation that we that we've laid as we yelled and our children during prayer time and the foundation that we hate as we basically spend our time out in the cry room while the you know homily was going on I mean all of those moments they matter because ultimately what they know is that faith is important in my family and but it's got to become real they got to be able to say it that was part of my journey too is like I could read I would read as many things as they could on Mary because that was a big struggle for me and finally I would read it from a person who had converted and I think that's my language like I get what he's saying like that's it and when I could put that teaching in my language it was my own and that's what I want with my kids when it comes to the faith not what dad says about the faith but how have they met Jesus how has Christ been real to them like what miracles have they seen and and you know I'm that's my modeling hopefully it's a father there is uh oh there's a scripture towards the I think towards the end of the Sermon on the Mount and you know I'm gonna ask you this now a bunch of people came to Jesus and they were telling Jesus all the things they did for him the thousands of things you know I preached these conferences I did this you know I I did that I did that and and Jesus said you know not everybody says the Lord Lord is going to enter the kingdom because I didn't know you yeah that's a hardcore verse you know that's a hardcore verse how would you say especially to our audience in becoming Catholic has helped you not only for you to know Jesus more but for him to know you this is a beautiful question and the way I would articulate it is going to be a little strange many times when I grew up without it being intentional we want to show God that we love him and so we choose things like mission work and writing books about the Lord writing songs we want to show him and sometimes we're not careful it can become let me prove to you that I'm serious especially if we struggle with the sin I'm gonna prove to you that I'm serious I'll be faithful this time I'm gonna pick it up a notch I'm gonna pray harder and all those are great and virtuous and that's wonderful but I think what I've been learning a lot lately is that doing has to flow from being I have to learn more and more how to just simply be with him and that being is enough like and that's so hard if you are a type-a personality if you're the kind of person that's driven and you want to not just sit around but it's that Mary Martha dynamic there's always going to need to be work done right there's something about being with Jesus and that knowing and being known I think it's a lifelong process and I think if you're willing the Lord will take you deeper than you've ever imagined well I think about those of watch EWTN for a long time you remember for example father Thomas today's wonderful programs as well as his writings fire within programs like that you think about the writings of the Teresa of Avila of jonatha cross I think about what Burke is doing with the spiritual direction it related to the ewtn i think about all that and wonderful books all the apostolate and all that to be said is that what is the soul the apostle in its prayer hmm it's prayer it's not just the work it's the prayer is the devotion the connection we can get so busy that Jesus doesn't know us because we're focused everywhere do we focus on him and that's why earlier in a program when I said when you get out of your seat and you're invited forward and you come down to receive the Eucharist how many of us do that flippantly mmm it's a process rather than realizing wait a second right this is the intimate intimacy that we're receiving of our Lord as it talked about in that verse in Hebrews people that receive that can still fall away right do are we missing the moment of what that enlightenment means I'm sure that on a regular basis we miss opportunities to know and to be known yeah it was interesting I was thinking about this little phrase I had written down a while ago which is we robbed god of the opportunity to bless us when we cease things back in our control and I think when it comes to knowing God it's all about allowing him to just love us in our brokenness in our mess that's the truth I wrote a book I'm not okay you're not okay but it's okay you can believe that that he loves you when you're worse while you were yet sinners Christ died for you and then you're gonna be sad I know something that we don't know a lot of time here but I know since the last time you're on less time you're on the program you fed your art heart-opening times I had open-heart surgery yeah two years ago and that's a sobering moment where you know everything that you've been studying and reading it's possible I'm gonna have that real encounter with my maker and if you were wondering I didn't die in surgery but you know those moments are so profound in heavy and most people out there in the in the audience have had experiences like that where you have to make real ultimately what it is that you're that you're talking about when that priest comes in your hospital room and anoints you and you're getting ready to maybe meet your maker in that way what a consolation to have those sacramental opportunities and to know that that jesus loves you in your in your brokenness and I'm hoping not to have that anytime soon I have to be honest well bringing from your enthusiastic evangelical background into the church all the New Testament writers talked about the urgency the urgency he's coming yeah got 45 seconds how important is urgency in our faith listen you can wait around and somebody else can do to do a lot but nobody's going to be able to share that love like you can share that love and eternity will be changed if you open your mouth and you talk about what God's done in your life thank you Chris god bless website what's the website Catholic van org or Chris Padgett com all right thank you for coming on the journey home again thank you it's an honor all right thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I I really Chris's journey as an encouragement you know but also his openness to serve the Lord is the desire himself to be known by Christ but his desire to be a channel of the grace of God to others hey that's you and me we need to be equally as open to be a channel of God's love and mercy to others we pray that we can do that as we keep each other [Music]

Channel: EWTN

Views: 10,954

Rating: 4.8321676 out of 5

Keywords: jht01645, ytsync-en, jht

Id: LmdVpf9KjzA

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 19 2019