John McDonnell: Labour should have a female leader if Jeremy Corbyn loses next election | British GQ

[Music] John thank you for having us in this palace right we'll just kick off with a few quickfire things to get it going last time you cried actually yesterday why I went to see the David Hare play on rail privatisation us straight to privatization officer you've seen no oh it was from 2003 2004 after Paddington that field and all the rest and and they had a number of the victims they played the victims and one of the drivers on one of the trains was one of my constituents and I attended his funeral and it was it was really upset and it actually it did bring it all back it really did last time you got drunk with my brother in Madrid at the Champions League final and I admit it it was the Magno that did I didn't realize we'd actually had that many Brandis with the coffee after the layoff Trump is legally off when you did believe in God did you see God as a socialist yes oh yeah I still see I still through Jesus as a socialist of course he was yeah and it was interesting because we had a discussion this isn't long ago a couple of months ago we had the discussion about Sermon on the Mount and how he fed the four thousand with a few of those and fishes and so on said didn't you realize that what that was about that was about everyone brought their own food but they shared it amongst everybody that's socialism so that's Jesus what's the difference between God and Jesus well we were in the I was brought up a Catholic so Jesus is the Son of God and so therefore his life on Earth was a demonstration for me real socialism okay is Tony Blair a war criminal no no say something positive about Tony I just think what he did in Northern Ireland you know I'm just always extolled or what he did there and I think he'll go down in history for that and I'm hoping and I said this previously I'm hoping he goes down in history for that rather in Iraq because that sealing that deal which is actually now under threat of it have to say it was just magnificent some of the positive about Gordon I actually think when you look back on it he tackled child poverty he redistributed wealth and income and a scale that we've not seen before he put the investment into our public services are no work of a Tony as well that really transformed people's lives and in my constituency you know we talked about sure start centers but it wasn't just that it was right though across our schools in London were seen as some of the worst in the country the London challenge that he funded transformed them which current Tory do you most respect I don't I'm afraid have look I'm living with nine years of austerity cuts that have implemented my constituents and I can't I can't forgive any of them you can't what about the ones who've been any of the ones who've been kicked out no they voted for all the austerity measures there's not one of them that stood up King Clarke no I'm Frehley vote for as well I can't forgive the Lum I'm dealing with people who've lost their lives as a result the disability cuts we've lost family members I can't I can't forgive them for any historic Tories you can respect now none no never no monarchist or Republican Republican Putin or Netanyahu neither because because I'm Putin because of what he's done in terms of turning Russia into effect of the a gangster state Netanyahu because this street and the Palestinians and and also the completely failure to try and bring people together BBC or Sky News BBC I'm a strong supporter public service broadcasting is it ever okay to lie no I don't think it is actually not even to stop people feeling hurt or these are sort of that argument around white lies etc I wouldn't even call those lies I'd actually I think there are actually ways in which you can pose the truth okay favorite line in dust cap itself you can't sum it up in one line as three volumes I'll send you them okay give me an argument from it you think is still relevant today okay the whole issue about how capitalist crisis ridden that's exactly what the capital brings brings out how it's the best I think it's the best steel I haven't seen one better demonstrated an understanding how capitalism works and how it is crisis ridden and therefore it's interesting we're in 2007 2008 when the crash occurred people reach into Das Kapital to look at actually there's elements here that demonstrate just how their system operates okay but you don't worry that the people out there that you're trying to persuade that you're gonna be yes an argent you're not worried that your role rehabilitating Marx just sends them taking their capital overseas to a certain extent what you have to do it is almost like a personal mission to try and rehabilitate the reading of Marx I know but you can't be in a situation where people refuse to engage in an intellectual discussion around a significant lies like that purely because the prejudices of what's happened in the past and I always say look I'm a great believer in the New Testament I don't blame Jesus Christ for all that happened in Christian countries over the last got 2,000 years favorite Beatle song plays as I remember okay okay best ever little ballplayer doing a little best current Liverpool player version and I'm currently reading I'm I can't remember the title of it but I'll go and dig it out it's a recent book about immigration okay favorite opera um Tosca on a scale of one to ten if Boris Johnson is eight point five right wing where are you and I on the left/right scale you and I I think we balance each other up on the left so we're talking about at least eight okay so you're eight or you're ten you're ten on the Left scale or I'm nine you're six okay so did you support my expulsion from the party no would you have me back yes good thanks for that right and now we're into sort deeper deeper I know your expulsion was on the basis of ridiculous rules that were brought in under new labor were they yeah the automatic especially Oh stupidly was bad it was but it was a stupid rule I didn't come back Alistair all these people listen up not they've told me have you applied they've told me basically I'd have to go to court no I thought you'd ejected in I thought you jacked him because basically I would have to go to court just submit a reapplication I haven't got that so I'm just a party member so gage with you so listen when you and Jeremy were rebelling fairly regularly against New Labour did you ever think that you and he would be the kind of in charge of the party no but I always worked on the basis and I I chaired the socialist campaign group and I always said to them at the time the left has to be ready to move into government has to be you've got to demonstrate your government ready you've got to demonstrate in some ways as well though on those back benches that you you know your subjects that you're interested in you're capable of it developing policies but more importantly a capable of implementing them CBBC you thought it was always possible that you might end up his chance to these jacker no I thought there's always possible that would get the left back into government in some form when Ed Miliband got elected leader there was a sort of I think a bit of a renaissance in in the way we had political debate and discussion within the party and I was hoping that would at least get one member the campaign group back into ministerial office or into cabinet was the ambition and Michael Mitra was in the cabinet for a long period of time so that was the height of my ambition at that point let's try and get someone not necessarily me I think I didn't seem either Jeremy or me being appointed to anything but we might be now to populate maybe junior ministerial ranks with some members on the Left who start stimulating the debate again do you not worry though that the people of the country outside the bubble that the country has just kind of decided Jeremy is not going to be Prime Minister no I don't I don't agree with that I don't but no no opposition leaders ever got near to power coming from the ratings that Labour and he have gotten out yeah that's true but you see I don't believe anymore were in the same political climate that we were in the past night that's 2017 general election just actually demonstrated that she was terrible yes that's true but we were twenty four points behind John Johnson assuming he's gonna stay well he's not he's not to resume I know that's true but I also think he's got vulnerabilities just as much as treasom a that we can expose and exploit in a campaign that's our job to do but I'm not I'm being realistic but all I'm saying is is that the political climate is such as it was in 2017 it's incredibly unpredictable you can't just use the usual gauge sticks to measure the situation but you don't worry there's a sense that you guys promising this working-class revolution but the working class are actually not engaged in it I think it's more than a class revolution I think there's many more issues than just the traditional issues that people campaigned on climate change now is the big issue the existential threat of climate change is now the big issue for us the systemic failure on virtually every front whether it's around public services or whether it's what's happening within our communities their division that there is we've got to demonstrate that actually we can change the world and that's what we're going to do but I was in Burnley at the weekend Ilkley on Saturday night and the sense you get and you must feel this at times is that people write hate the Tories but they're looking in and saying I'm not having those guys there's an element of that there's no doubt an element of that when that's what we've got to do in this current period of campaigning and I think when people in that general election campaign in particular I always say this as you know that you get that more balanced coverage in terms of broadcast media and that's legally obliged probably so it's broadcasting a particular legally obliged to do that that gives us that window of opportunity of getting the message across a bit untrammeled and then when people go into that ballot box I think they'll have a Clefairy clear choice then about where they go so I'm I'm confident that we can turn that around but yeah we face up to so you think you you think you can win a majority of the election yeah and you don't think you'd have to rely on the SNP or the Liberals well I think we can win the majority but we're going to a minority government situation no deals we'll just lay out our program and there they are the support if they or they don't if they don't support it we'll go back to the country and it'll be interesting to see how if they did how they argued against the real living wage investment not public services restoration our trade union rights tackling climate change how can they argue against that but what would be what would be wrong with it with going into some sort of formal agreements say with the SNP or the Liberal Democrats because I we want to be absolutely clear to people what we're about no backroom deals whatsoever and we're not going to be held back by any other political party but if you're not sort of introduced the idea of backroom deals by the fact that you've got these all parties ah what we're trying to do we've come to the view on No Deal certainly with any reason we're all sitting around the table at the moment is because we want to block No Deal beyond that we'll see what comes up a bit based on that specific purpose here but it's not for a it's not to do it's not going into an election on any platform or anything like that with them and do you not worry that you I mean you've definitely moved on breaks it I think in terms of yeah yeah we've worked through a sequence of events as we you know party conference than last year there was a clear decision about what sequence we'd go through and that's exactly what we've done and why's Jeremy been had to be dragged kicking and screaming and still not really there he hasn't he hasn't no you're wrong down this answer when we had that party conference decision last year block a No Deal that's exactly what we're doing see what deal we could get and we tried six weeks six weeks win with the Tories it was hard work and the hardest work of it there's that they were falling out amongst themselves and they couldn't deliver a deal at the end of the day and then after that we made absolutely clear that if we couldn't get a note if we couldn't get a deal done we'd go back to the people that's what we're doing but there is something I mean I do understand the logic of the party now yeah but Jeremy's standing to be Prime Minister mm-hmm but trying to make make something of being neutral on the single biggest issue facing the country you've got you you're not neutral no but what I'm also saying is that people have got to have a choice before them and I can issue for me is that yes we knew the first principle was let the people decide so we're at that stage now where we've exhausted every other route we possibly can so it's back to the peanut and do you agree that can't that shouldn't be an election I'm I'm more of the view that look we've said up until now we want the general election but I'm more of the view of course that's what our objective is but let's see what actually palm wood will wear in the end with empowerment itself there was a large number of people are saying actually we'd rather have a referendum attached to any deal but what would you rather I'm well I'd I want a general election I'd say I would like a general election but do you think bricks it can be resolved and in my I think there's the potential of that but we'll see over the coming couple of weeks is with limited time scale we'll see over the coming weeks how that debate goes I'm not sure if there's a majority on the for the House of Commons for a referendum before a general election but I'm a bit more nuanced about that I just really want to say that whatever we've got to do we've got no deal whichever is the best route but what about if an election leads to another hung parliament do we then yeah is that is there then any doubt that there has to be a referendum I don't think there is any doubt about a referendum if it was a general election first or referendum first it doesn't really has to be that's gonna happen you ask if we get elected into government we've said we'll go back to the people with the referendum I think if there's a hung parliament I think there may well then be a majority of going for the feet or a friend of yeah and how do you legitimately keep no deal off a ballot paper given that you do have a very large body of opinion now says I don't care about No Deal that's what I want yeah I think legitimate it's about making sure we get Parliament debating the issue of making sure we put a realistic option before them a sensible option on meaning that they can vote for and being honest with people that no I don't think any one sensible could support an OD at the moment so as a parliamentary activity how seriously should we take this idea that Jeremy is sort of the some of the people around them are actually won't brexit do they matter I don't think I don't think the way it's been portrayed in the general public about you know there's this coterie or brexit ease around but that's not the case but what there is the case is is everyone is in the view now we've got a position the party that's holding up quite well I've never seen the Palmateer they were pointing more United than it is at the moment of the last couple of years so everyone's very sort of careful about holding that political vows so we don't drop it so that means basically working through the sequence that we've done coming the logical conclusion of that which is actually once we get to the stage of blocking No Deal that the general election is on the table if we can't get that general election or the referenda becomes an option but isn't it a problem when in this kind of populist era where you describe your own policies of ours mm-hmm the that becomes a very difficult thing to explain to the public yeah of course it does and that's that's the well that's the challenge that we've got but I think every physical party's in the same situation in the sense that you know the libs now have come out for revoke and they've got to go and explain to a large number of people who voted leave why they're being completely ignored the Tories now you know get it done hardline brexit No Deal if necessary they've got to explain to all those other bases did a bit of new labour triangulation EdgeRank I see no not at all well we're trying to be trying to be straight with people and say actually the best thing to do is try and get people back together again and the best way of doing that is getting another referendum who do you think is I asked you about Putin Netanyahu what about the same question Trump Johnson I think it's very difficult to say anything between them I really do I've I find the whole thing really I find it really worrying I really find it worrying and I've said this in debates in the commas and elsewhere Johnson needs to understand and be worried about the forces that he's unleashing it's you know when you go into that political climate where actually you're lying through your teeth and that's what's happened when you've got a crony media in large sections of it you have the potential then of unleashing forces that you lose control off and I think we're on the edge of that I just give a local example okay the Daily Mail did a number on me the usual staff photographs of my street knocking on doors of neighbors and stuff like that and within three days of that top of my road is a children's nursery a big white wall within three days Nazi swastikas painted all over it MacDonald out Wallace or stuff would leave means leave we've not had that in this constituency for maybe 40 years and they're the sort of forces where Johnson's pertained to the unleashing and I think he needs to realize the dangers that there are on that so do you actually see one at an interview Tony for GQ we had this argument about whether we are sort of reliving a version of the 30s do you think we are that's interesting I have you seen the BBC documentary on the rise of the Nazis yeah I bumped into one the young man you were edited that and he said to me interested in when we were doing as a sort of a historical documentary of interest people start thinking my god what look around us and their similarities you can't argue that these are the same as the 30s but I understand where Tony's coming from because it is about these unleashing of forces that you lose control of and it can take as a dangerous race Hal Vaska at the end of the Second World War is the chair the Labour Party Marxist I think he said fascism in this country won't come through a dictator in a uniform with medals all over his chest marching about the dangers of conservative authoritarianism where you lose that there's an erosion of all those rights rules regulations institutions that protect our democracy and I think that's the fear that we have but you think Johnson wants to do that because that is what he believes or no no I haven't I don't think Johnson's got much of a belief at all I think this is the ruthless pursuit of power for powers sake and that's why I caution and be careful you know what you're unleashing here what's happened in the past when we when these sort of right-wing forces have been unleashed is that you've got a politician who literally truth doesn't matter to them secondly they start attacking the institutions that protect our democracy was Parliament judges the rule of law all of those things once you get into that territory you into danger territory you don't know again how that will wind up and I think I think there's real issues their own lessons we've got to learn and you said you weren't you were the publican not monarchist but how do you feel about the way he's kind of even the queen he seems to feel is sort of fair game yeah yeah I I'm a I'm a Republican but I respect the constitutional settlement that we currently have and that has to be protected so if you are attacking the courts if you are attacking Parliament if you are almost ignoring the rule of law and that's one of the threats we've got for him at the moment and then the Mott the constitutional monarchy that I don't agree with but we have at the moment as soon as you start undermining that process as well well what have we got left to protect us mmm so what's the answer to that the answer is I think making people up to the threat that we've got I'm mobilizing them and mobilizing them on a scale that demonstrates the Johnson and others that we won't tolerate the undermining of our parliamentary democracy but is that back back to the Jeremy point is there not do you not feel that people agree with that but there's a real problem they look across the despatch-box and they just they just don't see the the replacement of the alternative the issue for us is how we get across that actually the best form of protection is to elect a leader that's a consensus-builder that brings people together whether it's brexit or other issues and that is actually has been consistently I think on a number of issues on the right side of history and I think we can do that but we've got to have this serious debate now and it as I say isn't just about Brett Sears but have to hop the operation of the whole system because people aren't just angry about brexit they're angry about the status of their lives but if you if you go out to people not again not in the bubble and just say well what do you know about what's happened in the labour party of late that probably mentioned anti-semitism way you haven't brought people together they might mention all this kind of deselection and stuff going on now because that's been fairly topical so I have you ever since sometimes that you talk the talk he talks to talk about units but actually there's a lot of division and divisive Muskaan I keep on on the issues that we've got within the party so I always say that don't mistake democracy for division because that that's what's happening and of course the media portrayal is pretty abysmal semitism you're not happy with no I'm not and I think we're sure you know my view I think we should have been firm and more ruthless I'm faster but I think we are on top of that now but we were learning lessons all the time but damaged of course a of course it has but look at the contrast of the way the media has treated us and anti-semitism and I'm a disgrace actually no of course we shouldn't no but I'm just saying look at the operation of the media with regard to that we're an anti-racist party and we will be and we've always been a leading part in that respect but it just demonstrates just what the role the media itself we've got to cut through that all the time I actually think we I think we are to a certain extent but you just have to step up to the plate all the time would you in power actually what would you do to try to change the media landscape I think now well we are to a certain extent in the sense of look the mechanisms that we're using one in terms of broadcast media making sure we didn't use strategy I mean I want Lesley I'd look well two things one I'd like Leverson parts - I think Leverson was a good exercise I think if it had been followed through that's why the Tories blocked it because it was became beginning to develop a more accountability within the media itself but also yeah we want to make sure there's a diverse media as well so when we go into government we'll do whatever we can to support the spread of media or ownership I was the help set up the nuj parliamentary group and I was the secretary of it and we negotiated even with the Tories to make sure that there was money going into the local journalism and if you remember what was brought about was one of our ideas whereby funding came from the BBC to appoint local journalists working to demonstrate that to develop local media back again those issues and initiatives like that that actually you're not typically revolutionary but would really work but would you so how big of an influence do you think the current the media that you don't like minimum could the criminal I think it's minimized look at the circulation of the Sun and then some of the papers circulations have declined dramatically people take most of it with a pinch of salt now and the new generation that's coming up as you know most of the Muslim information that they get now and the news that they pick up is via the internet and via social media and that's why we concentrate have you been surprised that Joe Swensons approach visa vie Jeremy government not her personally but I'm surprised that other elements within the Lib Dems haven't asserted themselves a bit more but I think that's begin to happen so you think that you talk about the Constitution that if the government Falls for any reason Jeremy has to be the first place yeah we're the largest party that's there that's the convention and if he doesn't get the numbers I think you know if he doesn't I think you will okay and they get another hypothetical if he loses and if he were to lose another election is it possible for him to stay on I can't see whether that's the same for my own personal position I can't see so what would what would do is as the tradition which is you know of election for a new leader and but I think my own view I still you know I'm still of the view now that whoever comes after Jeremy it's gone it's got to be a woman we've got a woman leader now and if you look at the new youngsters that have come through they're fantastic but why I mean I get that on one level Labor's never had a woman lead apart from Margaret briefly yeah that's true but why why why does it tell me why it has to be a woman if if the may be men there who could actually people could look and think that's the minister you work on the basis on these equality issues you work on the basis if there's a to people that are roughly the same then actually what you need to do is discriminate in favor of those groups that have been discriminated against in the past I think people get that for most jobs well I think when you talk about leaders apart I think we're I think we're in that situation now where we've got such a range of talent from talent of women now in the shadow cabinet that is so obvious it's going to be a war next time so it's Emily Rebecca or Bailey you've got a whole range of them Angie Rainer there's a whole range of women in this fantastic you don't worry that the public your discovery and this is not the basis on choose a Prime Minister I think they'll be like us is that if you've got someone who's really good and that's a woman well support one okay it's that means are you ruling yourself out again yeah yeah definitely yeah how's the old ticker great when I had the heart attack it was add one stent inserted at hair field which was great and the good thing about that you know is that as the consultant said to be that the 649 out there sitting in that House of Commons who don't know what their heart is like we know exactly what your heart is like we'll keep an eye on all the way through and that's it Brandon do you feel that both you and Jeremy have the energy that you need both of the campaign and four different strong no no he's and Jeremy is the fittest person I know actually but he's he's not the face person you know John you must know Vitter people no you mistake Jeremy style you really do you know this zen-like qualities that for the media wrote up he's a very quiet caring compassionate person he's a consensus builder and you'll he'll work through quietly issues and then that's it I worry I worry that is in terms of the start is a problem in this world that we've been describing where people lot of people are looking for that kind of sense of look you're more like me and I'm more like you in terms of style all right I think that isn't what was needed at the moment you need someone who actually comes at these issues in his own quiet steely way and gets them done yeah you stand what I mean talking of you though have you I'm gonna be altered Harrington yeah yeah very old friend of our colleague at the jail and wannabe always used to say no matter you know Ken may be hard but McDonald's harder right have you and I'm not criticizing you deliberately try to soften the way you've seen with you with your nice bullies and yes and you shrug red jumpers has been a feature all through my life and people pull my leg over and all the rest I think it's got my mom used to knit them that's why no I haven't what I was ill to do you know I love Jill said he was a great thing a real Welsh orator who got blocked from going into Palmer Kimmie would have been a brilliant MP the hardness he was talking about was really well you know once you've made a decision stick to it and see it through no matter what have you still got that oh yeah yeah I have in terms of image and all the rest of it oh yeah of course the idea is you know you don't allow yourself to be portrayed as a villain in the way the media do and so you cut through that crap as much as you possibly so have you done just been straight with people that we've just said you know look if you want to talk to me about it you come and talk to me about an issue if you're writing rubbish I'll come and have a conversation with you and I'll cut through that and you can tell me what I really mean as simple as that being straight with them if I noticed through in your office there's quite a lot of kind of Irish Republic s stuff up there yeah if you'd have been living in Northern Ireland would you been tempted by the armed struggle to take part of it a lot of you know I come from a working-class family Irish background and all the rest and I think almost inevitably people like me were drawn towards that how far you went along that path I you can never be sure but I some of the old I went to one the funerals recently of one of the Irish oh one the older Irish comrades in in London and they were part of the first civil liberties marches and they moving really when they had those marches these were sort of they were singing we shall overcome and all the rest and then they got battened they got bat and heart and that was when the whole peace movement transformed into something different and I can't tell now which way I would have reacted but I can see why some went down that route now interesting you know the older comrades here who I were talking to they kept to the Gandhian principles of you know non-violence and all the rest of it but quite a few of the others didn't and that was as a result this was about violence that was perpetrated - and if they've learned anything over the years and if anything about mellowing maybe this is it now are much more around the sort of the Gandhi principles of non-violence is the way in which you go forward and you'll always be more successful by using non-violence but you use that you talked about what Tony did in relation to the peace process do you think those who did get engaged in the armed struggle that they did have an impact in terms of where they've got to now I think it's undoubted that what happened was is that they felt at the time first of all they were protecting their community that was the first thing that was the motivation at the time but there are others who saw the armed struggle it was leading towards some form of negotiated settlement that hasn't happened the armed struggle failed in that sense and that has to be acknowledged and I acknowledge that the key issue now and this is my fear about the brexit issue that we've got to protect the Good Friday Agreement what Tony did was right it was exactly the right thing to do and and we've got to just adhere to that we mustn't allow anything to go back and that's why I join with others every time there's some form of violent action now I join with others in completely condemning it but there is a total inconsistency between the Good Friday Agreement and the workings of the single market in the issue of the frontier yeah so that that actually says bracing cannot happen without some sort of undermine I don't think there's any way that Bret sir could happen without undermining the Good Friday Agreement unless for example you had a solution which was permanent membership of the customs union and that's what we put forward and that was what was in the back of my mind in negotiations with the toys but they wouldn't budge and they still haven't or United Island you know or United Island but again the good thing about the Good Friday Agreement that gives a process the way that can be achieved and that's what sold the people together yeah so you haven't you haven't managed your image then not deliberately you've done it a bit sorry say again mellowing when we talk about Melling your image yeah people do see you a lot of people do see you it's got a menacing figure dude is that you for to you um not really no I'd rather people just see me for I am but that's it you know I've I have a view about how to change the world that's what I'm gonna do if people want to contest either the objective or them the methodology that means let's have a talk about it and if you did become Chancellor what's in you first what what are the first three big priorities okay first of all the most important thing is to try and those people have poverty I've experienced it in this constituency as other's real living wage get that in straight away second to make sure we we protect that trade union rights sexual collective bargaining and then the third then is about the complete end of austerity and that means making sure the immediate reforms a huge emergency package of reforms to Universal Credit and then leading on to a new system and which on the nationalization agenda which would be first in line I think the one that is the most offensive at the moment is water sold off where any debts whatsoever they've paid out some eighteen billion pounds worth a dividend some of them borrowed to pay dividends load of themselves with debts some tax avoidance schemes that have been used I've been scandalous and all if you look at what the FT did their analysis of it for a quite a while it's just offensive and you wouldn't see the need to recompense people at market value well palm all would determine the value itself as they always do and it'll take into a range of factors the key thing to me as making sure we protects and the shareholders are in there for the long term so the pension funds and others you bonuses you know pretty strong about those what's the difference between a banker's bonus and Virgil van Dijk on six figures a week plus well we were going to tackle both because we introduced in the gray book my alternative budget an excess of pay levy as well so we tackled bankers bonuses as well as the excessive pay as well but they those footballers they just go don't they yeah was that bad I don't think they'll just go anyway but also there's a bit of a difference in terms of the the football regime itself because actually what you need to do is if you cut if the football is earning the wage it is then on our excessive pay levy would be against the company or the football club itself and they'd have to determine then whether or not they want to shell out that sort of money is there is there a would you see a limit to corporation tax and income tax is there a okay of a top-end that you wouldn't go beyond yeah well on the income tax stuff what we've said is top 5% or pay more and we've set out the figures that we said you know we took 50 P rates above 126 grand no it isn't it isn't but it's a fair a system it'll give us some it'll help us pay for some of our education in particular so we're not gonna you know we're not gonna penalize people even in that top 5% heavily we want to bring people with us as much if you do if one if you're only going to do that how can you possibly then have this kind of economic transformation at the lower okay what we've said is in the last in the last general election we put forward the grade book and it was raising about 50 billion pounds and we were quite clear top 5% will pay a bit more income tax reverse some of the corporation tax not all bring a financial transaction tax in designed by Navin espisode and those in the city itself and then tackle tax evasion tax avoidance June elements around inheritance tax as well that reversing the cuts that they've made and you can see there's a there's a package of measures on a spectrum that actually enables you to have that sort of income that you need that'll do the investment in terms of revenue public services on the capital side it is straight borrowing we've got to be straight people with that we've preached it five hundred million five hundred billion over ten year program I took that figure out some of the discussions the CBI and the employers and the unions were having about what we need to bring our infrastructure up to scratch I think there's most probably the opportunity of ensuring that we get that on the ground fairly quickly because the climate change issues what I'm finding in the city discussions are with asset managers and others on pension funds in particular they're quite interested in our idea around green bonds because they realize a lot of the investments they have now possibly could be in stranded assets in fossil fuels so therefore they want investment opportunities running alongside the state funder quite a lot of them are focused on getting their money out already and there and you you must hear as well that people say I actually fear a Labour government more than I fear brakes yeah that's become a sort of a headline thing that appears in some of the press and all the rest that's not the fear that I'm getting on the ground serious players know that this marker and this country will be a place they will want to invest in now whatever your Avanza Britain yeah yeah well let's let me come back on the Black Sea issue in the short term there's a real issue on brexit and there's a real worry and what I'm saying now non-meat in various companies and others is time and time again the chief exec of the company in this country will say I go along to my European board and I'm bidding for a longer-term investment and that isn't happening because I can be outbid by Germany France and the other reps in the company because they're stable of a brexit and that's why in the city it's interesting we're becoming the party that will provide them with the stability that they want does it worry that if you do become Chancellor you will actually be controlling the means of production and therefore you'll be part of the boss class that's because I'll be redistributing the ownership of the mission means the production have you got if you got any wealthy close friends trying to think I'm rich good friends friends I'm not in that sense no but I look on some people maybe not close friends but I look on people as friends who are quite wealthy Julian richer has a friend of mine met him over the recent years I didn't realise that he'd been privately and quietly funding a lot of the campaigns I've been involved in over the years I didn't had no idea that though he came to have a chat with me and I thought when we become good friends yeah but close friends though I have few front close friends in that sense because are the closest friends are the ones whom this prediction is particularly for two years who's your closest friend outside politics um should have actually all my friends are involved in politics or in some form you know it is a bit I suppose yeah it is but that's my circle of life I haven't if you've got you know you can't think of a close friend that sort of actually when you sit down you talk about nothing to do with well no look my closest friend used to share my party is retired now and we talk about everything in fact well you know we almost have a truce about not talking about is good for not good for his heart but so we have a truce about not or and you know I have a whole range of friends that I do nothing I don't their political they're involved in some for their party members or whatever but we'll talk about other things around politics and you know as you may be aware Tony and Gordon had their moments now you did you and Jeremy is that relationship exactly as it was intentions in that as well well we've known each other 40 years there's always been tensions we've had all sorts of disagreements about different issues but it's never been one in which there's any person stuff in there so you feel it so how would you define that relationship because it could have been you remember you once said we don't believe in leaders yeah yeah what do you mean brother we weren't as a collective my workers are collective and people may play different roles but they're you know they're respected as part of that good now they've kind of the leader thing is very very strong the old Jeremy Corbyn oh yeah well that's great yeah but it's also there is a little bit of you know what Jeremy says goes which is well you always have you always have to have the authority of the leaders name signing things off and getting their done but how you arrived at that decision is more collective I bumped into an Cryer and she said you back to my his bowls and she'd written to Jeremy and said she and you and he rebelled regularly and consistently and nobody ever thought about know exactly that's why I so annoyed about it but what Jeremy has you know again it may be the people around him but there's a sense of you know you it's his way or the highway no no I just completely disagree with that no the recent the D some of these selections we've been hearing about no no interesting enough on all those so that the one thing that Jeremy said is that the local people will decide and that's why he's been really clear we're not we need to get those collections over intervening Milford one recently no that was done by the NEC officers they intervened overall and I don't to get into that but if you've got complaints like that you have to deal with them but Jeremy amongst the officers group was saying if you you've got to deal with them but you should need to halt the selection so as not to prejudice anyone in that and what about the sort of Tom Watson Fiasco at conference I mean that was all a bit weird well yeah yeah it was a fiasco was he sort of just not present or not engaged was engaged and it went wrong I think things happen that Jeremy wasn't aware of and then when he became aware then we intervened but intervened by providing what his view was to the NEC and they adopted it does the Jeremy Tom thing do you feel that tension within the Shadow Cabinet tomlin no you don't actually no actually Tom does his brief DCMS does it well Thomas Tom you'll make statements on all sorts of things and you wake up and the more thing I'll be lying was he said now sort of thing but that's all part of it part of the joys of life isn't that the public is confusing it can be at times what we get through it private schools yeah would you get rid of them I want to integrate them into the system so that means a process by which they well eventually you know private schools I hope won't exist but the issue here is you bring people with you as you integrate them this idea that was brought forward about you know you expropriate their land and all that sort of thing I explain to people well that's virtually impossible to do anyway but what we need to do is tackle the real issue at the moment which is charitable stage there's tax advantage etc but engaged grammar schools are just as well I agree well well part the other stuff that went through conference that wasn't really acknowledged well is making sure we reform Lee at the 11 plus and then we start looking at how we end the grammar school programs that sort of energy rain is working on that okay and can you see any circumstances in which somebody who is a socialist would use the private sector in schools I want them to use the public sector for stop no but I want them to use the public sector and I draw that's what I'll rather they did I went you know I I went to Catholic primary state prime and all that so I did the 11 plus it was I hated it you know or me and my brother were the only ones are in our school we went through them but everyone else but secondly Mazatec all our friends you know disappear well we had friends on the estate obviously but complete auto but you sit around a shelter kept our tour with people who said yeah I would prefer my view is clear I prefer they went to public school they went to state schools not public schools I went off to I went to train to be a priest you know I went off to a Dallas our college and all the rest of it and to be honest I can't see what difference the education there was incomparable than apart from bitter Sado christianity but they oh they were in well I was of that generation where they the cane ella slipper was used quite a bit did you think do you think you'd have been a good priest looking on it back I it was it was I thought I I just think I had a vocation really I really did I was absolutely convinced out of occasions where did it go I got to the age of 16 and some you know you just think actually I haven't I I don't believe this anymore and it was just like it was like that it was a sort of she's like it and it was quite a revelation well I find it quite distressing at the time when I was a 16 year old and I've spent the last three or four years moving in that direction that was a sort of an Irish Catholic family so I wanted to go into it but I was no pressure from my parents quite the reverse my mum didn't want me to go off to and my dad was quite proud about it but what doesn't meet a stay at home but no I found it quite distressing at the time yeah well I've been a good I don't know I was probably not you know I would have must been too lippy there was it would that did the belief you have the belief I'm interest was on your political beliefs that seemed to be never to have changed but there you had a big set of beliefs you believe in God and you believe in what the or and the Catechism and all the blood you bleed and then suddenly it goes was it sudden or was it it was within it was in that last that age 16 around then over a number of months and it just happened and he just it was rational it was thinking it through a bit more so you reach the age of maturity as a 16 year old which I'm good to do and you have a you have a rational process of really thinking it and he suddenly thought I cannot imagine and I felt like I said well I cut I just can't believe this anymore if you kept in touch with any of the people who did stick let's think the cool no no no and how do you feel what do you have a relationship with faith now oh yeah all the faith groups were in my constituency I work closely with local parish priests always says I'm a lapsed Catholic I was robbed to mystically no I have a lot of respect for faith groups then I bring them together the mosque across the road here I helped found I found the premises for the local Muslim families to operate in and with the good whare again I help them find their premises and I work closely with them and it's a it's interesting it's about values as much as anything yeah I'm fascinated but I'm the same I'm a pro faith atheist yeah anything else you want to tell a grateful nation let's go back to that star of interviewer as brilliant wasn't it so Liverpool's win the league how'd you know we're gonna have to really screw up now I know I know my do you know at some points I had last year and we felt with her never I'd never underestimate Man City what a team they're phenomenal really and the problem I've got with Liverpool is I clock didn't go out and buy this summer so I'm really worried if there's any injury to male or seller or for me no I think there's real problems there you know that's my big thing he's got lots of good youngsters coming through and out on loan but they're not ready I agree [Music]

Channel: British GQ

Views: 247,899

Keywords: behind the scenes, brexit, british gq, british gq style, british magazine, british style, celebrity, fashion, gq, gq uk, jeremy corbyn, labour, luxury, menswear, men’s fashion, men’s lifestyle, men’s style, politics, style, style guide

Id: joo4w_BwEJs

Length: 48min 19sec (2899 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 11 2019