John MacArthur Defies The Government On The Babylon Bee

what did it feel like for you having closed the church in March of 2020 to a unanimous decision to reopen in July of 2020 in defiance of Governor Gavin newsom's orders if uh if you're being told that people are going to die in the streets and you're going to kill your congregation to kill your grandma and kill your wife you might want to slow down and think about it a little bit but as soon as we knew that was not true and that we were being lied to then it was just a matter of being faithful and now it's time for another interview on The Babylon B podcast Welcome to The Babylon B interview show this is a huge day for us I'm Sam Greer I've been known to around these parts at The Babylon B pitch a headline or host an interview or write an article in my day we're here with a very special guest Pastor John McArthur you might know as an author you might know him as a gentleman who's pastored the same church for over 50 years and preached through the entire New Testament at a rate of on average five versus a week that's slow and thorough finally Pastor John you might know as the man who wrote the Bible thank you for joining us it's my pleasure thank you now you didn't write the Bible but what was it like to be there with the gentleman who did write the Bible yeah you know that was the real issue with me when they when they said we'd like you to do a study Bible I had to get over the hurdle of putting my words in God's word even at the bottom of the page that was a stretch for me and it wasn't until I was given a Geneva Bible from the 17th century and saw that they had study Bibles to help people understand the word so for at least a few hundred years I was in good company you were in good company and of course you presided over the Legacy Standard Bible which is going to be a huge component of your legacy right that was just making sure that we had a good translation because translations are tending toward I guess you could say the reader in other words there's a concern about the the reader and so you change the language when translation by definition has to be about the writer and once you shift from the writer to the reader you have walked away from the authorial intent of the text of scripture so I was trying to yank the chain a little bit and say let's go back and what would we what would we have as a translation if we went right back to the author and took what God gave the inspired author and that's what the legacy is amen and we're grateful for it we're going to talk about parts of your legacy but today will be a rather focused conversation the essential church is the new documentary from Grace Productions it comes out on July 28th in theaters I'm telling you this news for the first time you know probably that we had already closed AMC and Regal what you might not know is that we were at 72 theaters yesterday as of today 150. that's wonderful the film we want to get massive reach because it's got a massively important message it follows the story of you shepherding the Elder board from having closed the church in March of 2020 to a unanimous decision to reopen in July of 2020 in defiance of Governor Gavin newsom's orders what did it feel like for you to be under the sizzling microscope of the full force of the state and the county did you feel feared did you feel like you were maybe making the wrong decision it should just buckle and bow I don't know that I ever felt anything I'm not that kind of a person I mean I wasn't looking for emotional cues um I knew what was right I mean it's a simple thing it doesn't matter what comes it only matters what your convictions are and if your convictions are immovable and unchangeable and eternal then whatever comes you have the same response so you respond on a Biblical basis now it's true if if you're being told that people are going to die in the streets and you're going to kill your congregation to kill your grandma and kill your wife you might want to slow down and think about it a little bit but as soon as we knew that was not true and that we were being lied to then it was just a matter of being faithful amen our top journalists at The Babylon B were on the case following the story closely we wrote some headlines about the sheer Rage of the state that was leveraging its power against you I'm going to read some out loud chuckle or don't chuckle or respond as you see fit our first is this let my people go to church Bellows bearded John McArthur to hard-hearted Gavin Newsom I love that I love that yeah yeah he's pharaoh and I'm Moses I'll take it then you'll take it it's a gift thank you dump it to your left go ahead don't let me interrupt where are you going to respond no no I look um standing up against Gavin Newsom who sees himself as Pharaoh like he doesn't see himself as a part of a republic he sees himself as a king an authority standing up against him and realizing that the judge that was basically handling our case was a man married to a man we knew he wasn't on our side morally and ethically and spiritually so we our our attorneys basically said we felt you had one percent chance to win the case that's from our attorneys because the the enemy is too formidable and too hostile and but the Lord knew it wasn't one percent to win the case we had 100 chance to win the case amen because he was involved amen and Pharaohs of course Pharaoh massacred babies Governor Newsom has set himself up as a pharaoh-like figure here's another outraged Governor Newsom orders furnace to be heated seven times if John MacArthur Will Not Bow Down and Worship Him do you recognize the reference uh absolutely yeah from The Book of Daniel yeah yeah you know what I honestly remember years ago on Larry King I don't know if you've seen it I did an interview with Kevin Newsome and uh he he he was talking about how he had basically legalized same-sex marriage in the city of San Francisco and the conversation got to a point where I said well what's your Authority for doing that you're the Bible you know is against that clearly the scripture is against that and he made some kind of comment about well well I'm a Christian I'm a Christian also and I said well then you must accept the authority of the Bible right I mean that's what a Christian is somebody who accepts the Bible and then it was like well er uh uh he said I'm not a theologian I'm not going to get into a theological debate I saw the clip yeah and then he said you know he's going to wave on the theology issue of it but again it in those conversations that with him or with anybody else in that environment was always an authority discussion so you're saying this maybe it was Deepak Chopra who was spouting off about all kinds of things and denying things that were biblical and I would just say to him what's your Authority what's your Authority are we supposed to accept you as the authority Soul authority purveyor of all truth architect of Truth source of Truth that doesn't go over real big with a guy who thinks that's true but doesn't want to admit it governor governor Newsom had a formidable foe in you and so does anyone who has the misfortune of facing you down on Larry King live or elsewhere because you have the source of Truth last but not least Newsom demands John McArthur the Baptist's head on a platter and for this one our top journalists wrote a bit of article that I'll share sources say the governor was fed up with the constant calls to repentance and that during a wild party at the French Laundry yesterday he demanded that the head of John MacArthur the Baptist be brought to him on a platter he said this MacArthur has been a thorn in my side long enough I want you to give me at once the head of John McArthur the Baptist on a platter Governor Newsom spoke to a confused server in answer to the question what would you like sir any final responses on this John MacArthur the Baptist yeah you know all I can say is you want to identify me with Moses and Daniel and John the Baptist I'll take it where do I sign out well so could you send those over to my critics yes I'd appreciate it now next question is about the sheer focused might of the ire of the State against you there was credible threats of arrest I was friends with your research research assistant at the time and he said that you were genuinely preparing to potentially be hauled into prison an octogenarian Pastor being hauled into prison for holding church services at that time did you feel any final hesitation or did any Elders or other leadership who were under the same threat did they feel any fear or worry um you know they may have thought this might be an opportunity for us to get a different guy talking to us since we've been listening to this guy for 50 years they didn't say that but no again I it was never about what I felt I never ever had a thought I I remember saying to Jenna Ellis who was the Constitutional attorney in the thing uh you know if I go to jail I like the Apostle Paul I have a jail Ministry whatever is going to happen is going to happen and they were they were piling up fines and every Sunday was another dollar fine and another period of time in jail um I I was honestly eager to see where the hand of the Lord would take it because I'm such I'm such a strong believer in the Providence of God if I look back over my life from this vantage point in my 80s I have seen the hand of God in the Unseen hand of God in Providence work in every imaginable and unimaginable way for all these many many years I trust him completely so whatever his plan is is exactly where I want to be whatever that means so I don't respond emotionally I don't I don't I wasn't fearful of anything whatever was going to happen was going to happen but in honesty I did feel that if there were any vestiges of legality left in the state of California and America there was protection from the Constitution and we had the right attorney to to make sure that that she ran that flag up all the time so everybody remembered that yes Grace Community Church is not a very clappy or loud a mini church but when you thanked Jenna Ellis for her service during a Sunday morning Standing Ovation again a rarity at a rather conservative Church well the film it's a two hour development of a sustained argument after a screening I was able to see uh I heard Bill brandenstein commenting to the producer Jacob Hoffman that the film maintains interest and focus over the course of two hours and it really does develop an argument what is the core biblical argument of the film well the core biblical argument of the film is very simple that God has designed government to have a certain role within a certain sphere and not beyond that the government doesn't become the father to your children although they would like to we're going to fight that battle continuously what they're trying to do now is allow children to be influenced by a teacher toward transgender surgery and not be able to tell the the parents so the government will go wherever you would allow it but in God's design it had a very limited social purpose and structure of protection and sort of social welfare um the the the design of God for the church was to come under the headship of Jesus Christ so in the simple statement of Jesus he said render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods which means they're different so the church doesn't run the government and the government doesn't tell the church what to do and the statement you made was Christ not Caesar is the head of the church now what about State overreach that doesn't interlope in Sunday morning Services you famously have the unpopular stance that the American Revolution was unbiblical due to Romans 13 do Christians have discretion to push back or not be subject in areas that don't involve Sunday worship or is it just the church where Christians are allowed to not be subject if the church is being intercepted by the god what answers that question is the reality that we are to obey the laws we are to be model citizens so you you don't start a riot you don't start a rebellion you don't start a war you don't start shooting people you don't march on capitals and you don't overthrow the powers that be none of that none of that is acceptable Christian conduct we submit to those authorities we pray for the Salvation of our leaders but we are model citizens if there's going to be a change you know there's only two possibilities either you can change laws and therefore change men or you can see God change men and therefore change the laws and the the latter is the only way to make a difference we want we want to live quiet and Peaceable lives so we pray for the Salvation of our leaders we pray for Mass salvation of course the story ends on a happy note with around a million dollars in legal fees being the big banner dollar amount uh the the happy ending wasn't always in view so just rewinding to the beginning did you initially believe that church was essential despite any coveted risks or did you believe that church was essential because the coveted risks were trumped up and misrepresented yes I I believed that the church was essential and the risks were trumped up and they were lies but I also said and I said this to our leaders I don't care if it's the Bubonic plague and the Black Death the church is essential and maybe more essential if this thing is as dire as they say it is and so then the shift is not are we willing to meet in in church and break the law but would we be willing in a real plague to risk Our Lives to take the gospel to people and the answer has to be yes I mean you have history with that amen now a semi-parallel situation in cold cold snowy Moscow Idaho there was a proactive progress protest and expression of First Amendment rights and some of the protesters were arrested for not showing IDs they had showed up to City Hall during the local during the lockdowns to sing hymns in protest is that a fair parallel to what happened with Grace or is what happened with Grace different because the government was interrupting our Sunday morning worship and we were just being reactive is the proactive versus reactive does that make the parallel incomplete yeah I think I mean I'm not going to say you couldn't do that or it's wrong but there's nothing in Scripture that encourages Believers to protest government but to live quiet and Peaceable Godly lives pray for your leaders let let the sanctification of the work of the spirit in the church be made manifest so the church affects the culture not by marching on City Hall and carrying placards the church affects the culture by its virtue its godliness its Holiness its prayers it's compassion and when it is the church then even though Society doesn't like it it is a restrainer it is it is a it is a source of good in the midst of evil it it balances off the inevitability of Destruction so the church in order to be the church it has to be more than just open it has to be transformative which means it's not just the meeting of the church but it's the living breathing members of the church in society that make the difference amen I was in uh our adult Sunday school class the steadfast Fellowship group and I attend there with Shannon holiday the writer and director of the film we had him stand up and speak into a microphone to explain the film a bit and he was asked what was the most challenging part about making the film and he said it was a complex story involving legal scientific and biblical argumentation and he said I also chose to weave in church history and juggling it all was a challenge I believe it pulled it off beautifully it's one of the best documentaries I've ever seen how did the church history element enrich the film and enrich our understanding of what happened with you and Grace Community Church well I didn't want it to be about our church I didn't want it to be about me I wanted it to be about the church and the the position it has been forced to take throughout church history we could have picked a lot of different eras and a lot of difficult different locations through history I mean even today you could find the persecuted Church in parts of the world even now but we landed on the covenanters in the 1600s because it's such a dramatic story of the faithful in Scotland when they were being threatened by the king of England and it brings to the fore the fact that the stand that we took was just us doing what Believers have done in the past and to be honest the sacrifice that we made was nothing compared to the sacrifices that covenanters made I mean they were literally burned at the stake we show the very location there's still a the grass Market in in Edinburgh is still there you can see it I've done that many times so they give with their lives and we were inconvenienced and and we were you know criticized but nobody died but there have been Christians literally the headship of Christ in his church is a doctrine that has come down Through the Ages really on a sea of blood people have died to protect the headship of Christ we haven't done that yet the scene with the rising tide is harrowing I mean speaking of sacrifice and I'm assuming you don't endorse throwing stools at Governor Gavin Newsom no we wouldn't do that but that's an inside joke if you haven't seen the film Jenny Getty's was so outraged she did that and the story of the two the two ladies the two Margarets who I've been to that place I've seen those monuments who were drowned I mean these two women were drowned because of their unwillingness to bend to the government so that's uh it's a costly stand for some to take and you know conveying that communicating that with the Brilliance and genius that they did using using dramatic special effects um pointed up the fact that if you're doing that now you're you're part of a wonderful history you're you're connected to some amazing people in the past who took a stand that cost them more than it cost you amen which is a very Noble thing to think about so we wanted people to understand that this was not just in the moment this is the church's battle from the very start amen something like sharing in the sufferings of Christ and the gentleman in Canada of course suffered tremendously James coats was uh the scene that tears your heart out as a father is when he's reunited tearfully with his family at the in the film and then of course the film where Tim Stevens is arrested in front of his weeping family I mean that was all okay because they were science deniers and misinformation Peddlers right right by the way Tim is right here today I've been talking with him today he's here for the mdiv program I saw his beard a couple Sundays ago yeah but again the price for them was really severe and they didn't know what the end of that was going to be I mean there's no way to know what's going to happen so taking the stand at that point puts them in the category of the the noble who are willing to lay their life down if that's what the Lord asks amen now in your book uh of course you co-wrote with Dr Nathan busnitz from the master Seminary right thinking for a world in chaos the early chapters gesture towards storm clouds of persecution on the horizon we accept and acknowledge that that can be a part of the Christian life but of course those of us with small children don't relish the idea of future Generations being bereft of the wonderful privileges and freedoms we've had in this country what is the Practical to do for Christians who want to try to safeguard a future for their children is it something approximating Christian nationalism where you band together and create laws that are recognizably Christian or is it something quieter and just a quiet faithfulness what's your take well first of all you have to start with what the Bible says and the Bible says that things don't get worse and worse not better and better so it's not likely unless you're a post-millennialist you know unless you believe things are getting better all the time which is not what scripture says if it's if it's difficult or nearly impossible now to make such laws why would we think 10 years or 15 years from now it would be easier to make that like it's going to get better it's not going to get better evil men get worse and worse so it really doesn't matter what the government does and you've got to get off that train and you've got to say I am a part of the Church of Jesus Christ so how do you how do you protect your children in the future by having them in a church where the word of God is exalted where Christ is lifted up where God is worshiped where the pursuit of Holiness is manifestly the pursuit of the congregation where there's compassion and Care clarity about truth the church is the pillar and ground of the truth the protection for families in the future is not going to be the government it's not going to be the government because eventually according to all the prophecies the government will turn on the church the government is always the persecutor because they're the only ones who can put people in jail and kill them you know your neighbor can't be your persecutor he can't come over and shoot you or he's going to go to jail so government is always the ultimate persecutor and they've shown that they're willing to do that so you got to get off that train and you've got to stop thinking that there's a solution with them because that's not the trajectory and you've got to find the church which is most faithful must sound biblically where you have Godly leadership and I look at my kids I have four children 15 grandchildren five little great grandchildren three and under and people say to me what about the future and I say I'm so excited about the future because they're in churches where they're being led to the truth of God whether coming to know the Lord and this is their time I have no fear for them because this is God's time for them but I would say you don't want to leave them exposed and you have to think Beyond even the church and I think parents are going to have to think this way in the future you're going to have to think seriously I mean really seriously not just a passing conversation about Christian education and home school education or you're or you're literally going to turn your kid over to a brainwashing process well and I've heard about the sweet tradition of you bringing the great grandchildren up to your office after you preached to grab some candy from the candy jar and I appreciate the word of Hope and encouragement here at the end uh be faithful don't you know worship your vote but Steward your vote responsibly and of course Psalm 146 do not put your trust in the son of man in whom there is no salvation instead put your hope in the Lord the god of Jacob Pastor John last item we know that there was a wonderful clip floating around from mid covid where you acknowledged you're famously a teetotaler you acknowledge that the the aluminum had been diverted from non-alcoholic beverages towards beer cans because alcohol consumption was up so high from the dramatic overreach I wanted to ask you just a very simple question would you be interested in us refreshing you with some beer right now no I think I think there's a new product that I'm interested in it's Fresca with a John MacArthur face on the can you're in luck Pastor John I know the owner of Tango packaging who put the stickers on the Fresco really I was kidding about the beer here is a pastor John Fresca from Shepherd's house I saw one of these on eBay the other day for 125 dollars you can sell them and uh Pastor John yeah really it was for sale for 125 dollars incredible thank you so it just went down however now that you know there's more I diluted the value uh sorry eBay resellers that was interesting because I had no idea you had that I know our brains are going down the same track correct you must be a great church guy correct okay I want my Fresca I want my Fresca this has been the Babylon B interview show we were thrilled to have gotten a chance to sit down with Pastor John Pastor John this is normally the moment in the show where we say where can we find you and people plug their podcasts you famously say God takes care of the breadth of my Ministry I just worry about the depth of my Ministry so I know you won't plug your podcast or anything I'll just say grace to you is the resource for John McArthur's sermons there's an upcoming podcast season three coming out in August of the MacArthur Center podcast about your life and Ministry any way that we can be praying for you well I think I always think about what Paul said pray that the gospel will have free course it'll go forward with power I I don't fear the culture they can't stop the purposes of God Christ said I'll build my church and the Gates of Hell won't Prevail against it and I read the end of the story we win Christ wins Christ triumphs we will Triumph in Christ so I'm not worried about the end of it I'm worried about only the fact that the church needs to build itself strong so that it can stand against the tide that's coming and I would just make one further comment there's a big Trend in what's called deconstruction Christian deconstruction the hashtag ex-vangelicals the reason so many people are defecting from the church is because they were never converted in the first place you have the shallow there's not enough gospel in some Churches to reject it so if people think they're Christians but it doesn't survive and it's like The Parables of the soil they don't survive whatever comes along chokes off the seed so I think we're going to see a lot of continual defections and deconstruction not only because they're not true believers to start with but but secondly because it's now cool to do that now you're you're part of the new victim group you know now you now you you know I can think back in years past that when somebody that I knew of say is in my college days or younger years was a Christian and claimed to be a Christian and they the fact that it was kind of a kind of a quiet thing they they went away it was a little there was shame and embarrassment it was sort of like being a homosexual say in 1945 no one knew that you wouldn't let the anybody know that you wouldn't have a parade that's for sure so they didn't parade their apostasy but that that's a new category of victim in which you can Garner popularity and you can make a whole lot of new friends if you don't mind limiting your friends to the Internet so I think this is going to continue which obviously calls on the true church to be faithful and to be strong and preach the true gospel so we don't produce half converts who will eventually deconstruct and Fall Away amen we'll pray that that Trend reverses or dies on the vine we'll pray the gospel flourishes again thank you Pastor John the film comes out July 28th the big order of the day is buy tickets if you're in a city where it has it call your friends who are in a city that has it if you're in remote Massachusetts or what have you Pastor John the essential church thank you so much for being with us thank you foreign

Channel: The Babylon Bee Podcast

Views: 186,595

Keywords: john macarthur, babylon bee, babylon bee interview, babylon bee podcast, babylon bee videos, babylon bee woke college, babylon bee college

Id: SRifKX_OvBM

Length: 30min 59sec (1859 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 25 2023