Writing Horizon Zero Dawn - John Gonzalez Interview

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I found the writing to be fantastic. Each main mission drip fed you a look into the past and it was enthralling to slowly learn what happened and how the world went to hell.

At the same time was a powerful character journey with Aloy and finding out about her past and her place in the world.

All in all I thought it was fantastic writing and plot.

I played this after my first ME:A play through and the difference in pacing, dialogue and characters was eye opening.

👍︎︎ 43 👤︎︎ u/Dahorah 📅︎︎ Jan 16 2018 🗫︎ replies

Avoiding due to spoilers, but this is a big element in my interest of the game. If every other system is typical open world, and the writing and setting click nicely together, I'll be happy.

👍︎︎ 6 👤︎︎ u/barbietattoo 📅︎︎ Jan 16 2018 🗫︎ replies

The only characters I enjoyed in Horizon were Aloy, Rost, and Silens. Granted, they were three of the most prominent characters and received a significant amount of character development, but the characters weren't what drove Horizon's world. I mostly played the game for the mystery behind what happened to the Old ones. I wasn't very invested in the conflict between the different tribes. I think that plot line was mostly created to drive the plot forward, whereas the old ones plotline actually "wanted to be told" so to speak.
With Andromeda, however, I thought the narrative was largely uninteresting but the characters and world-development were fantastic. I didn't really care what mission I was going on with Andromeda, I just wanted to get to the next cutscene with my squadmates.

👍︎︎ 5 👤︎︎ u/OperativeLawson 📅︎︎ Jan 17 2018 🗫︎ replies

Gonzalez did an incredible job writing the story of Horizon. It's no small feat to take a setup like robot dinosaurs and turn it into a thought provoking and intriguing sci-fi story that makes sense. I also loved that they didn't pull any punches with the big reveals. A lot of other developers would have drip fed explanations about the world, but they both presented interesting questions and answered them in one game.

My biggest letdown though is so much of the ancillary plot being told primarily through poorly paced audio and text logs. Walking into one of the vaults and being bombarded with 3+ different types of logs was a clumsy way to dole out the game's great lore. My other big criticism is the last of memorable characters outside of Aloy and Sylens. I really don't recall any characters, side or main quest that left an impression on me. It ended up feeling that Aloy was very solitary in her world, with no characters of similar knowledge to really play off of, and no connections that make you feel nostalgic.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/lingitiz 📅︎︎ Jan 17 2018 🗫︎ replies
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(electronic beeping) (keyboard clacking) - My name is John Gonzalez. I'm Narrative Director here at Guerrilla Games. I joined the studio about four years ago. I was brought on board specifically for this project. Guerrilla reached out to me because of my background in open-world role-playing game development, and when they did that, they kind of showed me the pitch for the project and I was pretty stunned. I mean first of all, I was kind of flabbergasted to see that a studio that had been working on linear first-person shooters had decided to create this huge open-world action role-playing game. I was like, seriously? But it was also really clear that the concept that they were working on had a world that was unlike anything I had ever seen. It was clear that they were really excited about it and it was clear that they knew that this was gonna be a whole new level of challenge. So there was no cockiness that the studio had. It was sort of like an appropriate level of fear for taking on something so immensely ambitious. - [Interviewer] And you're no stranger to post-apocalyptic open-world role-playing games. - Right, yeah. So I was Lead Writer on Fallout New Vegas, but this world of course was something completely different, whereas the entire Fallout series is the post-apocalypse, it's this kind of junk heap that's left behind as a result of all this human savagery. This was something that was striking these notes of grace and beauty and majesty, what we often called post post-apocalyptic nature, that took a lot of inspiration from BBC documentaries. With some of the early footage that they were showing me from prototypes, you could immediately imagine David Attenborough just starting to narrate what was on screen, and so it felt like it was something that was very distinctive, unlike anything I'd worked on before. - [Interviewer] Can I bring it back to those Obsidian days for a little bit? Because I want to talk to you about the challenges of making open-world games, or writing open-world games, that you would have sort of learned all those years back that essentially, this team is probably going to learn all over again. What's one of the most challenging things about writing a game which has just so much writing in it? - That's exactly right. I mean, I think actually your question already holds the answer, right? Which is just the amount, the kind of encyclopedic nature of an open-world role-playing game. The script, for one, is in and of itself an immense challenge. In the case of a game like Fallout New Vegas, where there was so much of a focus on branching narrative, on player choices that just led to completely different climaxes, that also meant that the number of facts that you needed to cross-reference, and the range of, the range of kind of conditional dialogue, incredibly challenging to account for. In the case of Horizon, that still ended up being a massive script, and so that's a challenge in and of itself. But we were also doing something very different with this game I think because we were trying to create a hybrid between what's most exciting about playing a massive open-world role-playing game, in terms of the scope of the world and also the depth of the lore, and a lot of the pleasures of interactive dialogue and there's some choice, but we were really trying to blend that with what's most exciting and cool about an action-adventure that has an authored character, that has a defined arc, and the cinematic storytelling that's used to convey that. - [Interviewer] Right. You probably have a lot more situations to bestow, like lore onto the player when you have, I guess it's kind of like an active protagonist as opposed to a passive protagonist in the Fallout games world, or no protagonist, as the case may be. - I think it's actually that what's so different about it is that in the case of something like a Fallout game, you're essentially stepping into a player-shaped hole. You get to create any kind of character that you want to be. This was actually one of the huge challenges on Fallout New Vegas. We literally had to account for the possibility that the player was a sociopathic walking flamethrower, who would immediately murder anyone that they encountered, or someone who was like Mahatma Gandhi in the wasteland, someone who literally would not even harm a Cazador, right? And both of those playthroughs had to be possible. And that was very difficult to account for. I mean that's, if you've played the game, that was the origin of the character of Yes Man. It was like, "Ooh, let's create a character "who's essentially immortal, you can destroy it, "but then it comes back in a new instantiation "and is apologizing, it's obsequious, "it wasn't you, it was me", all this kind of stuff, right? But the relationship that you have to the world when you're playing that type of game is very different, right? I mean, you're sort of figuring out what are all the different levers of power and what you want to do with the various factions, and you're uncovering a lot of lore that can be really cool but is basically impersonal to you. It's about the world. The world itself poses kind of a big mystery, but it's not your story as the player necessarily, whereas in this game, everything about the ancient world, especially everything that you're gonna find on the main quest, that's directly relevant to Aloy's own story. She's trying to solve the riddle of her birth. It turns out the riddle of her birth and her origins is essentially the riddle of how this entire world came to be, and so that, our hope was that that would infuse all of these data points and bits of lore that you were uncovering with a kind of emotion that you don't usually get in that other type of open-world experience. When Guerrilla first reached out to me, they had the concept for the world that was already in place so this was a world that combined three really interesting elements that at first glance, didn't necessarily seem to fit together. You had this gorgeous post post-apocalyptic BBC nature that we were talking about, and then you had this, the wildlife of this world are these robotic dinosaurs and other machines, and then you have people who are living in tribes who have this kind of pre-industrial level of development. They don't really have knowledge of the science and technology even of our world. Well, that seemed to immediately pose a really big question, and I mean it's like, if there was some kind of apocalypse especially a robo-apocalypse. It seems like everybody would really want to remember that stuff. It's kind of like a key to survival, right? So there was just a huge mystery there. And it was one of the things that intrigued me and was a big part of my coming onboard. I really wanted to sink my teeth into that. And then Aloy was there, but Aloy was kind of there in nascent form. She was already this tough, quick-witted, machine hunter. She was obviously already somebody that was gonna be cool to inhabit in the game just in terms of the way that she embodied the wealth of tactical options that a hunter would need to be able to survive. She was obviously somebody who had already been hardened by the challenges of living in this world. Other than that, things were still very undefined. There was, so when I was coming onboard, I was talking about the studio kind of turning to face what they knew was an immense challenge. When I was brought onboard, it was really part of a studio-wide objective to raise the bar on the storytelling, and this was the moment that Guerrilla decided to form an internal writing team. And so, that was great. Not only got a chance to come in and to recruit some very talented writers to work with, but the other thing that was amazing about it was, it was never necessary to fight for the importance of story. Instead, that was something that had already been decided across every single department at the studio. Everybody really wanted to tell an amazing story, and knew that it was gonna be a big challenge. So that's a rare situation I think to find yourself in as a storyteller within the medium, is something where you don't have to fight any of those battles. You don't have to convince people that this actually is gonna matter. Everybody was already pre-convinced. - [Interviewer] Can you speak to the culture of this studio a little bit? As an outsider, at least that I see, or culturally perhaps, and I'm sure there's quite a lot of nationalities working here, but there does seem to be something very Dutch about this studio, very creatively in tune, but also penned up, crossing their Ts, dotting their Is. Is this a particularly well-run studio or a particularly creative studio or daring studio? Or does it stand out in any way from places you've worked in the past? Is there anything about this place that feels a little bit different? - Guerrilla is absolutely the greatest creative environment that I've ever worked in. I mean, it has no parallel in my career. And I don't really know what's the precise mixture of elements that makes it so. I don't know to what degree its cultural elements. I do think that there is a kind of concern about the people who work here from management on down that is not like a lot of places that I worked in the United States. I'm not trying to say that all of those places didn't care about employees, some of them did very much, but I've also seen the kind of callous kind of regard to the workplace that sometimes is part of the States. That's really not the case here. There is I think, a true, sincere concern about the experience for every employee. That may very well be part of Dutch culture. Dutch culture in general tends to have a more egalitarian kind of ethos. Beyond that, there's just no limit to the ambition here, and I don't know if that's something that's tied to any one particular culture, or if it's just the mix of people, but everyone here has soaring levels of ambition and it's devoted, or directed rather, not to something like we want to sell a lot. Obviously, we want to sell, but it's directed towards something that transcends that. It's towards the idea of creating something that's actually beautiful, something that's beautiful in every dimension, something that's beautiful to look at on the screen, which obviously, I think Horizon has succeeded at, but also beautiful to play in terms of the fluidity and the tightness of the controls, the balance of the gameplay, and also beautiful in terms of the story that it's something that when you're experiencing it, there are huge mysteries, it hooks your curiosity, hooks your empathy for the character and for other characters and that it has these, we were hoping to have like these big payoffs both as revelations of what had happened in the ancient past and who Aloy is, but also that those are things that are matters of the heart as well, that there's emotional payoff. - [Interviewer] Let's talk about some of that ambition that I guess when you first came on to the studio. What comes first? Is it Aloy? Is it building the lore of the worlds? Your responsibility as Lead Writer, what do you tackle first? Because there's so much it seems like, a fair amount of things you could you could go for first of all. - Well, as you might imagine, the work of developing the story kind of ends up embracing all of those concerns, and there are inter-dependencies between all of them. So a huge thrust of the creative work early on was to grapple with what had happened to the ancient world and how did the world become what it is in the time that you're playing Horizon? And then the other parallel track was Aloy, and who exactly is she and what is her story and what's the goal that's driving her? And then what we were looking to do was to make sure that those two things were woven together, that they really became as much as possible the same story. The ambition was to create an experience that was both highly personal and hugely epic, something where you're playing a character who has a driving need to solve a mystery. In this case, the mystery of her origins. But that driving need is going to lay bare the deepest secrets of this new world. And I thought that that was especially important to make sure that this didn't, that the mystery of the world wasn't something that ended up feeling like a cerebral, just point of curiosity. At best, that would have given us a good detective tale, but the best detective tales are the ones where the detective really needs to solve this mystery, right? And so that's what we were looking for, we were looking for a way of making the mystery of the earth something that was the mystery of her own being. On the one hand, the emotional core of the opening of that game, of establishing the relationship between Rost and Aloy was present in the very first story document. We had kind of four major story drafts, and these were documents that reach about usually about 80 pages long. They were pretty pretty big. And so that relationship and elements of what you see in the game was actually present in the very first version of that, but that was repeatedly revised and reimagined and it was something that absolutely was honed over time, every single word was revised countless times. We do a lot of reworking and revision in order to make sure that what we, what we have is something that we're actually satisfied with. You take a look at any of the big moments in the game, for example the moment where Aloy is, this is a spoiler, but the moment where Aloy reemerges from the mountian after discovering why she was created. That had endless numbers of revisions. I mean, I was bashing my brains out sometimes with a brick it felt like to try to find a version of that scene that really paid off on who she was, was really a statement of her character. Yeah, it's a lot of work. - [Interviewer] Was the idea of you playing her as a child always in there? Because it seems like a important part of it. - It was. It was, and it was something that really worried us. I mean, to be frank, we were wondering like, "Is this gonna work for people? "Is this something where we can start off the game "and you're not really yet in the core gameplay, "you're not yet experiencing this character as an adult? "Is this something where people are "going to disengage from the game?" It was a calculated risk though because what we found in the writing and then also in the realization was that this seemed to create an incredibly strong bond between the player and the character. So that when you have that moment where little Aloy finally makes the leap and tumbles and comes rolling up as adult Aloy, you just feel like, "I know exactly who this is, "I know exactly what she's about and what she's after "and damn it, I'm gonna make sure she gets there." And so it seemed to pay off and be worth it. So it was one of the risks, but no regrets there. I feel like that really worked out. - [Interviewer] And the idea of her finding her Focus, was that always in there as well? That it was a tool that she found? Because it creates such an interesting, it's one of the most fascinating parts of that opening part of the game because she basically stumbles upon her superpower. And granted, there are narrative reasons why perhaps her, with that piece of technology is the combination that's required, but she kind of, she's Peter Parker who gets bit by a spider in a way, you know? It could have been anyone, right? - Well, that's true. Yeah, I haven't thought about in those terms, but that's actually a really good comparison. I know that in some of the early versions of the story, I had her discovering this Focus device when she was an adult, and there was a lot of pushback from design saying like, "Look, that's basically saying "that you want to not have our user interface "until like hour three or something like that", I would say, and I really resisted it. And it's just one of these examples of how wrong I can be. Really, the importance of collaboration across the disciplines, they really push really hard to say like, "This needs to be something that she's getting "at the beginning of the game." And it was just the right choice. It's also something that, what I love about that sequence is that we experience in a really vivid way her being cast out, her having nothing, in a way. And then when she discovers this, we found a way of making that feel like it's a partial answer in kind of like, in kind of at that moment, where she sees the happy birthday message from this long dead man to his son, Isaac, the way she responds to that, that she's kind of sensing some of this familial love that she wants so much, I just thought that turned out great because it paints the entire, the whole promise of the ancient world again with an emotional brush. There's something that she's going to find out here that's not just a matter of curiosity, it's a matter of emotion and what she needs. - [Interviewer] She repeats the words, doesn't she? She's sort of says this phrase back in her mouth, right? - Yeah, she does. But I mean, there are also moments of that in going back to collaboration, the script for that moment is essentially what's realized there, but the giggle that she has, that's something that was added by the person who is realizing that. There are things, I mean also, there are just some moments in the game where the animators were able to have her face, like the emotion on her face, the emotion on some of the characters be realized in the way that I found to be pretty, I was really it's kind of stunned because the amount of empathic imagination that's necessary to get micro-expressions like that, yeah, I was like, "Wow, that really requires imagination of a sort, "I wouldn't even know where to, how to start doing that "if you gave me a whole bunch of training about "how to animate a human face, "I would still have no idea of how to do "what they were doing." I was really, I was really amazed. - [Interviewer] And it seems like, that seems very important in that entire opening sort of area with the Nora and that like, she's beat upon emotionally non-stop throughout that entire, everyone keeps saying she's an outcast or putting her down. And one of the things that I found fascinating about it, I'm wondering how much of this you were involved in is that the ways in which she responds to her criticism isn't so much that she has a quick-witted response for things, but she kind of does it with her actions. A lot of the time, they're saying like, "Oh, you're never going to", what was the name of the trial again that she does? - The Proving. - [Interviewer] The Proving, it's very much like she does it and then more tragedy happens again and she has to overcome that and overcome that, and it's not until you go back to Mother's Embrace after quite a while that you finally get the catharsis from some of the matriarchs, but it seems like a lot of it is about the doing. Is that the case, or am I reading that a little bit wrong? - No, I think you're absolutely right. Because I think this is something that is I think actually surprisingly little understood by both practitioners, like the people who create media, and then also the people who experience it which is that story craft is really largely not about what gets said. Dialogue is hugely important, and it's one of the main pleasures of experiencing a story, but dialogue, whether it's good or bad, isn't usually based on the cleverness or the freshness of the words, it's how appropriate it is to the situation. It's the action that a character is taking with what they're saying. Dialogue is action. And story craft is entirely about action. Now, that action can sometimes be internal, but that sometimes that action is some kind of huge physical challenge, sometimes it's a social challenge just between two people, but it's how the action plays out at all of those different levels. So the opening sequence that you're talking about where we experience Aloy's childhood, what we see again and again is that there are these obstacles that are being thrown in her way. And then one of the things that I think hooks us it's not just our empathy with the underdog, the person who's being mistreated. Thankfully, most of us respond to that by having sympathy for the person who's being mistreated, but it's also the fact that she will not stop. She has this kind of will that you can see from the very start. Every time that she has an obstacle thrown in her way, she is driven to find some kind of way of surmounting it or bypassing it, and that's something that I think really hooks us because when it really comes down to it, that's what we all need in our daily lives too. I mean, our challenges are not at the same level as fighting a Thunderjaw. But we all have different challenges every single day right? And we're always having to try to call upon some kind of inner reserve of will or ingenuity or whatever, and so that's what I think, that's really what hooks us about great stories is seeing people put in extreme situations, which drive them to call upon resources and come up with some way to try to surmount those challenges and it drives them all the way to the most extreme tests, and then at that point, we see whether they fail or they succeed, you know? And so yeah, it really does all play out through action. It's a matter of orchestrating I guess the obstacle course that the character will have to cross. There was already kind of a really great foundation for the tribes that was in place, even at the moment that I was coming in where I had been exploring these tribes, exploring their culture, sort of in relationship to the environment, a lot of the kind of factors that you were just talking about. Also, the kind of the unique aesthetic of each tribe, the pageantry of the Carja, for example, the grandness of their architecture, obviously incredibly different from the more rustic Nora. And so they were already I think on the right track in making each one of these groups feel incredibly distinctive. And then that really inspired us as storytellers to try to imagine okay, well, what are the different sorts of myths that these groups would have? What sort of like each unique, each unique environment, the challenges of that environment, what are the machines that they're dealing with, and what kind of stories would they tell about this world to understand it? And this was of course, I mean in the case of the Nora, one of the things that we were really interested in was this idea that they live close to a facility from which new generation humans emerged, let's say 750, 800 years ago. So they had, they worshiped this goddess they call All-Mother. And a lot of that is now shrouded in the past, but it's basically true. I mean, it's not quite true, but it's kind of true. And so the idea also that that would inform that tribe centuries later so that it is still a functioning matriarchy and that the role of women would be prized in that way was really, it seemed to make sense and it just seemed cool. It was a way of kind of hinting that there is something more you're going to be discovering here. And we wanted to do that again and again with all of those tribes. We want to try to imagine what was unique about their circumstances, and then how that informed their culture and their fables and their myths. Yeah, another thing that interested us was the challenge of creating a world that didn't feel static, that didn't feel like, as you might be, you won't be surprised to find out I played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons when I was a teenager and so it's kind of like every teenage kid who plays Dungeons and Dragons at some point draws the big map of all of the countries and gives them names and all this kind of stuff, but they don't have any kind of history, it's just like you're creating it at that moment, and it's a static world where, "Well, this civilization's like that "and this civilization's like that." And instead what we wanted to do was to try to imagine what were the histories of each one of these tribes really from that moment at about 750 years ago when people are first reemerging on the planet and don't understand at all what it is that they're doing there, and they're trying to make sense of everything. And we also wanted to make sure that there were a lot of conflicts, a lot of, well, just that there had been these huge events that had occurred in the recent past, which I also think is something that, what's really great about working on Shadow of Mordor and reacquainting myself with the lore of world builder par excellence, J.R.R. Tolkien, one of the things that I had never really understood until I was revisiting this, it's like, he's not setting the "Lord of the Rings" during the grandest stage, that stuff's all in the past. This is sort of in the Dark Ages so to speak of what's left behind. So really imagining all of this, the history and using that to, it just gives you so much more that you can use to inform the dialogue and the understanding that characters have of the world, it just makes it so much richer. So pretty early on, when I was beginning work on the game and looking at that curious juxtaposition of elements, something very high-tech like the machines, something low-tech like the people who are living at this time, the lush, verdant, majestic nature, trying to understand, "Okay, how do those things come together?" This is really what ended up I think inspiring the thinking that led to this connection between Aloy and Elisabet Sobeck, the route to get there was a bit circuitous. So the first thing was, really wanted to make sure that the apocalypse was something that wasn't just what you would expect. For this reason, I didn't like scenarios where there had been nations that went to war with robots and it leveled human civilization. I didn't like it for two reasons. The first reason was, it felt kind of like a, "Yeah, okay, like you showed me this world, "that's the first thing I would think happened, "and you're telling me now, that happened." That's gonna be disappointing, didn't want to disappoint. The second thing is it didn't do anything to help explain why people would have lost scientific and technological knowledge, right? They would have wanted to hold on to that desperately. So that really inspired the idea that the apocalypse was something where it was an existential threat that came true. It wasn't just the end of civilization, it wasn't even just the end of humanity, it was the end of life on earth. It was that drastic. It was the world being reduced to a barren rock, floating in space, as lifeless as the moon. And that seemed really, I shouldn't say it seems really cool. It's terrifying and therefore a great idea because it gives us the suitable kind of drama and shock of a revelation, right? Like, "Whoa!" Okay, but if that's the case, then the other part of that has to be there's some kind of force that reconstituted life on earth, and so what would that be? Played around with ideas that there was some kind of colony that had returned to earth and had done this, but this also didn't at all help to explain why people have lost knowledge. So the concept that I seized on that seemed really interesting was this notion that there had been a terraforming system that had been created, an automated, artificially intelligent terraforming system that had reconstituted life on earth. This seemed really interesting in part because it gives us sort of the drama of Project Zero Dawn, these heroic scientists are racing the Doomsday Clock to create the infrastructure that will allow this, this machine to do what it needs to do to bring back life, but the other thing was it immediately suggested the role of machines, it connected very strongly to the role of machines. The machines are the servitors of the system. They are the kind of distributed network of agents that are doing the work of this terraforming system. Okay, that's great, this is becoming more cohesive. It also gives us an explanation for how this knowledge isn't transmitted, something goes wrong. So at this point of course, in story development, don't know what that is, but something has gone wrong where people have not received this kind of trove of knowledge that would have been prepared for them. And then finally, as we were in investigating this project and this idea that there are these heroic scientists, well, what if there's one scientist who's leading this? And she's sort of the the main hero of this? Elisabet Sobeck, so she's the creator of this terraforming system. Well, what if the terraforming system later on undergoes a crisis that's so extreme, that the only way that it can repair itself is by recreating its creator? What if it has, oh okay, wait a minute, this all of a sudden gives us a way of connecting our main character to the ancient past in a way that gives her a completely unique relationship, right? I mean, this makes her exactly the character that you need to play. This makes her a person who has a kind of role of mythic level importance in the events that are going to unfold. And so then it was a matter of then looking at that and thinking okay, well how do you tell a story about that? Well, if you have somebody who doesn't know her origins and if she's searching to discover where she came from and if the particular pain that she has, the most, the deepest pain is that she doesn't know who her mother was and she's searching for that, that's gonna line up for that in a way that has the potential to be very powerful. Because in the end, the mystery that Aloy is trying to solve throughout that entire game is she's trying to solve the mystery of herself. And the answer of that is this woman in the ancient past who fought heroically to preserve life, to give life a future. So as those things started to come into focus, that seemed to think like, okay, this isn't gonna be easy to pull off by any means, but those are elements of this story that feel like they have the potential to be something special. I think that Aloy's superpower is actually something that she has even during the opening cinematic. The real superpower that she has is that she, she has the same genetic signature as Elisabet Sobeck. And this is also why she's been made an outcast, you know? It's because her birth is from the perspective of the Nora something that can't have happened, and they've really struggled, the matriarchs have struggled to try and understand whether or not she is a blessing made flesh, or a curse. And so their not so great compromise is to make her an outcast and place her with this character of Rost for safekeeping. And sort of take a wait-and-see approach, right? So I think at the beginning, we sort of introduced that mystery. I think that the moment where she finds the Focus, something that's not really clear to, it's not really clear in the game, it's not made clear in the game, it was part of our thinking, I think we could have made it clearer is that the reason why that technology works for her is because she has that genetic focus, I mean, genetic signature. But the other thing that we found is that that risked making things too complicated. And we found that players, when they were going through that part of the game, they seemed to accept that discovery and starting to use the discovery and were doing so without going like, "Hey, come on, this doesn't make sense." It seemed to flow very well. And I think part of the reason it flows is some of things we talked about before, it is something that, it's a discovery that's not just a gameplay feature, it has this kind of immediate emotional effect for the character. It gives her something that helps to begin to fill the hole inside her, so that she can, it's in some way a replacement. "I don't have the kind of social connections "that other people have, "the kind of connections of care and love "that other people have in their life, but I have this", because there's something to grasp onto. It's also part of what's the, that scene where Rost helps lift her out of the ruin where she's found the Focus. And there's a moment where she's kind of looking over her shoulder like, "I don't know, "is this sort of like, "do I actually belong down here more?" And then they have that conflict about the things of a metal world, things of the ancient world that's it's not okay to have, and she is like, not gonna let it go. and Rost, to his credit realizes, "Yeah, I can't take that away from her, "she doesn't have anything else." - [Interviewer] Right. To help develop the power, it's almost like her playing with her iPhone and he's like, "Stop playing with that thing", you understand? (laughing) - "Enough screen time!" - [Interviewer] Exactly. I want to talk to you about the Apocashitstorm, and that whole wonderful story that plays out. I feel like one of the most powerful parts of the narrative of this game is just how somber and sad the apocalypse is. It's a world full of hope, but it's embedded in the death of our entire society so it's like, in a way that for instance Fallout was as well but Fallout does it in this sort of, I don't know, a more tongue-in-cheek kind of way, and this is kind of a lot more personal or something, and that whole story of Zero Dawn and everyone coming to realize what was actually going on, that it was for the greater good, "But essentially, we're tricking people "and not telling them that the world was going to end", was that whole, was that always part of the story, or how difficult was it to craft that part of it? Because to me, that's like one of the most affecting video game story parts I've had in years. - Mm-hmm, oh, thank you for saying that. Well, Fallout is the apocalypse as dark satire, right? It's really the darkest satire. So it's, yeah, it's funny, but it's really not because it is, again, about just human savagery and the irrationality of it, that this is what you end up doing, you just wreck everything. And it takes the bleakest possible view of human nature which is that that is, we're just doomed to repeat that again and again and again. And then I think as you touch on about Horizon, it's very different, there is a more hopeful note. It's not I think a naively hopeful note because there's still atrocity in this world, there's still tremendous violence in this world, but it does give the, what happened in the ancient past with the exception of some of mirthful data logs you can find that reflect the silliness of that particular brand of consumer culture and technology at that time, but when you take a look at the story of Enduring Victory, the story of Project Zero Dawn, the Apocashitstorm that's mentioned and the Vantages story that you can follow, it does strike these notes of sorrow and regret. And I think that that's, I just think that that's important in terms of giving the horror of that apocalypse the kind of resonance that it needs to have. Again, it's really important that that's not abstract. There's a famous quote from one of the monsters of the 20th century, Joseph Stalin, where he said something about, "The death of a man's a tragedy, "the death of millions is a statistic", would be more forgivable if he was saying, if he wasn't responsible for the deaths of so many millions. But the basic idea of what he's saying is true which is that we feel deeply the tragedies of persons with whom we empathize. We actually understand the immensity of the most atrocious events in history through the figures of individuals, individual stories. So we wanted to make sure that that was there so you really felt it. At the same time, we wanted to make sure that we weren't just hammering this one note of feel sad, you know? This is why that cast of characters, they all have little niggling sort of conflicts with one another and they have their own kind of inside jokes, and they have different views of the project. This is something I really enjoy about even the crew of the Alphas who worked on it. One of them, the Travis Tate guy points out like, "Extinction's natural. "This, it's not." He actually has this very contrary view even of the supposedly heroic project that he's taking part in. And so we wanted to make it, we wanted to make them feel like people. We wanted to give them multiple dimensions so that the, so that yeah, that you feel it. I mean, another example, and sorry if I'm going on too long, would be the, when you go on to the United States Robot Command. There's this little story that an article called out about one of the soldiers who's dead in that first chamber that you come through, you can hear the data logs that he's been sending to his wife, and then you get the edited censored versions. And there is a kind of immense sorrow in understanding that, just like seeing the way that this crisis has just, and the manipulation of the forces that are trying to stop the crisis are just crushing this connection between these two people. Those kinds of moments I think make that really feel, I don't know, you feel it much more deeply. There are some things that members of the team also created that I thought were wonderful. I mean this moment, well there's a quest in the first game called Peaceful Grove, where it's one of your introductions to the bow nuke. And this is where for some reason, the machines in this one particular area aren't hostile. And this to them seems like a kind of a return to the way that the world used to be. And I think that all of that is really interesting. And I think that there are a couple of characters that also highlight really unique aspects of some of the tribes with really idiosyncratic ways. I think that Nil, the character of Nil, who seems to have become kind of a fan favorite, the kind of way that he has this kind of unique, sociopathic kind of approach to killing, but the way that that's connected to the lore of the Carja, the way that the Carja were preying on other tribes, and the way, the Red Raids and all of that, the thing that's really interesting about it is this is a guy who's sort of a monster but knows that he was a monster, and to the best of his ability. kind of regrets it and has tried to atone. And then also there's a character that a lot of people have run across, his name is Brin, I believe I'm remembering correctly, who has these sort of shamanic visions when he drinks the blood of machines, these kind of hallucinations that he'll describe to you, really beautifully performed by the voice actor. That I think is also just another one of these moments, like, "Wow, where did that come from? "I thought I was playing Horizon Zero Dawn, "now all of a sudden, I'm in a Ken Russell movie. "I'm like between altered states or something like that." - [Interviewer] So it's like drinking gasoline as if it's ayahuasca, or something like that. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. Perfectly put, yeah. (light gentle music) (electronic beeping) (keyboard clacking)
Info
Channel: Noclip - Video Game Documentaries
Views: 100,571
Rating: 4.951396 out of 5
Keywords: noclip, documentary, horizon zero dawn, john gonzalez, story, narrative, aloy, game design, interview
Id: a4P7uaaoRcM
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 43min 15sec (2595 seconds)
Published: Tue Jan 16 2018
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