Joe Rogan & Steve Rinella on Hunting Regulations

is it better for you that you're kind of is it better to be sad about it somehow is it better to be regretful or just ignore the fact altogether or why is it not okay that I'm happy about what I eat I know the story of it really well like I understand the history of wildlife in this country I don't want to say better than anybody but damn sure better than most I know where we've been I have a good sense of where we're going in terms of American wildlife what the challenges are for American wildlife right I'm involved in this stuff on a daily basis I can know all that and I can see my place in it right I can see what my actions are and whether my actions are helpful or hurtful for something that I care a great deal about and if I can know that well and get a deer a bear or whatever and have it be food and find that I'm like really happy to be involved in that that somehow is off-putting to people but it's okay to be that it's I'm blind to it I have this nagging sense of guilt about it that I haven't reckoned with I don't really know about it you know and that's like that's like an accessible position for some people to have it's really hard for me with people that are that that are contributing to animal death who want to condemn those who are more willing to or for whatever reason willing to excited about taking part in the process themselves I got to find a way to I got to find a way to engage with it though and I need to get a better understanding of it because the the debate isn't going away I can't keep brushing it off is so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant my time because clearly it does warrant my time to understand that perspective I just haven't had anybody really give to me in a good way I have people say like oh but they were raised to be eaten that's a foolish perspective that that's that to me is way way worse it's a life condemned I'd rather talk you'll google of Glenn Greenwald as a vegan I probably talk to someone like Ricky Gervais about it because I assume that he's articulate about it he's articulate I don't think his position is nuanced I don't I don't I think there's some willful ignorance that's a part of people that eat meat but condemned hunting willful in the fact that like I said they know that they're gonna get a certain reaction out of people when they tweet about it on social media one thing if you're talking about someone who's out there shooting things and not eating it okay I get it I'm with you so if some guys are shooting an elephant because he wants its tusks I'm on your side I get it but if someone chooses to hunt you know and an animal fill-in-the-blank that might be a goat might be weird to you that they're eating this thing but they're shooting this it's an invasive species it's actually very delicious it's very edible its prized for its meat by some communities you don't make any sense you know doing this because you know that other people are ignorant about it as well and either you're ignorant because you've never bothered to look into it or you've bothered to look into it and you're ignoring the nuance yeah in the case of the goat thing this is all added thing there's an added element that our government on the federal level is involved there's a lot of state wildlife management agencies that are involved in trying to do wild go eradication projects on islands yes this is something that's ongoing all the time in Hawaii and many other places where we're like out helicopter gunning yeah helicopter gunning for invasive species explain to people how those goats got there in the first place because this is also very weird a variety of ways but a lot of things were a lot of island species this is one way it happens where invasive on islands would be introduced by seafarers whalers who would want to establish food resources along transoceanic routes so you could put something there and come back and get it later early waited like whalers used to come out of the the American Northeast like all those famous whaling villages and in New England you know they would go down and stop in and like you know stop in and the Galapagos whatever and gather up tortoises that they could flip over in the hold of a boat and the tourists stay alive for months on its back you'd have like a fresh meat resource and as people came to understand scurvy and realizing that fresh meat gives you enough vitamin C to avoid scurvy that you can get from dried meat because you know the way the vitamin C behaves through the cooking and drying process but like fresh meat you can keep from having scurvy meat became like even more important then but people would come in and like cut some sheep loose cut some goats loose on an island and know that they're gonna breed and build up a big population and that can be like a place you stop in and get food and other things get introduced in other ways and of course animals move you know so you have one island that has close proximity to another Island they can swim across yeah bump over and then it destroys native vegetation they trample birds nest and so you have in many cases where introductions of non natives clearly not native grazing animals not native predators will wind up causing like a lot of extinctions of endemic species on islands and creates all kinds of problems and that's exactly we're talking about with this go in that picture so this is an animal that must be killed if you want healthy wildlife on that eye on the native wildlife and the native fauna the flora all this stuff that lives there all the stuff that's supposed to be there you got to kill the goats otherwise they'll eat everything but I think people look people look and they they they they look in there like I don't buy that that was the motivation of that person what I care about is motivations of individuals I think you're right because when California got rid of mountain lion hunting they're still killing several hundred mountain lions here a year people are comfortable with like the total lion kill didn't change much people are comfortable with the state agent or someone being paid to go out and kill lines they're not comfortable with someone paying who wants to go do it I don't think they realize I don't think they realized that state agencies are killing as many mountain lions in California as they are I don't think people understand that I think people do understand if something gets put on the ballot you know would you like to reintroduce mountain lion hunting people would go crazy like why would you do that mountain lions are beautiful they're exciting I want to see them that but these are people in Santa Monica you know I'm saying yeah they're not people that are living you know an hour outside of Bakersfield they got 16 mountain lines in their backyard in a year that's this is a different kind of world you know if they're in the tachi mountains out there and a seamount lands all the time they have a lot of mountain wines yeah an issue and there's a problem too that I view this is coming from there's a problem or I think a lot of people have a very hard time empathizing with people who might be negatively impacted by wildlife as well and the question of the lion issue Brian where it's kind of like this idea like well you better suck it up right yeah so if you're a rancher and you're running cattle in the area where you're losing a lot of cattle the wolves and Grizzlies people will look and be like you better suck it up buddy like I can't really picture your problem but your complaints are not legitimate well they can't it's somewhere to cut a if someone were to cut a grizzly loose in Golden Gate State Park right I don't know um I think that people would have would come to have a different perspective on that to put it mildly yeah but it winds up being the you look and people are they don't really want to hear about other people's problems if it doesn't if it doesn't jive with their understanding of what problems are and that's area where the the issue around grizzly bears and in the delisting so you know they were delisted they were removed from Endangered Species Act protection temporarily because they had met all recovery goals so when we look what's the recovered population look like they mapped out what would look like and we've exceeded that for many years now and they were delisted but then Wyoming and Idaho moved to have a very limited hunt on them and then they were a federal judge block the delisting and they went back and listing was the federal judges motivation well you want to hope that that they didn't have one you wanted you want to think that they were just looking at you know the details of it but I think there's a suspicion that that person went into that knowing damn sure what they were gonna do you know but but you don't really know I mean a lot of these arguments around they come down to like technicalities right no one's arguing that the populations recovered but there's also the argument that the judge is probably trying to protect his own reputation because the amount of blowback that a judge would receive for allowing a hunt to go through is vastly different than blocking a hunt yeah blocking a hunt you're not gonna get that much blowback you get a few people that are upset but it hadn't been an established resource now you're taking something away from people but if he allowed it poor the wildlife people would go [ __ ] bananas on this guy yeah they tend to like I don't even call him in but like I don't call him environmentalist like people who sue to block the D listing of recovered species then they'll masquerade as you know ecologically conscious environmentalists but they're just people who it's it's untenable to them you know they can't that they're never going to accept the idea that that you're gonna have human exploitation of this resource right that they masquerade is there they have an environmental motivation but it's not it's like it's an animal rights motivation there's a very there's a they have a sensitive ear in a certain federal court you know a Missoula and so you'll see a lot of these cases around wolves and Grizzlies they'll get that they'll want it done through that court they know they're probably have a friendly take on it I think it was a real it was the watching that happen and that's been having reason I think it was a real a real travesty because there's a couple things that happen like culturally in areas where you'll you create a lot of tension with people where there's people that are living amongst these things and they're looking for some level of some level of relief and they want to see it go to state management and they might want to see the state exercise some control over where certain populations of large predators are spreading into and when it winds up being that they're like their voices are not heard you know and they feel that people from far away are really heavily influencing decisions that affect them on a daily basis it winds up creating like a lot of animosity toward the species to where means I think about what happened with this botted I will write the spotted owl no one can see no one perceives the spotted owl as Owl anymore the spotted owl has become like a symbol of federal overreach and you'll find that like you know wolves for a while they become like a symbol of a dispute and people stop like liking the animals much and it becomes like this like contentious creature and I think that we're gonna head that way if we keep if if we keep stepping in on wildlife issues with the mentality that we've been approaching the wolf and grizzly issue in the northern Great Lakes the Northern Rockies soon to be in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem now I think you're dealing with local and then you're dealing with national right so the local people gonna have an issue with it because they're going to be impacted by it it's going to be directly impacting their life dogs are going to be killed while you know what they're gonna take domestic cattle and all sorts of different things you're gonna have real issues with the people that like to go elk hunting the populations have diminished rapidly but the rest of the country doesn't give a [ __ ] people in San Francisco they don't give a [ __ ] about it people in Chicago aren't impacted by it if especially if they don't have anyone in their family that hunts or anyone that has a background in hunting and they don't have a background in it themselves they don't care know people really don't and it's I pointed out all the time but um that I care about the availability and bunt and abundance of deer elk moose caribou right like I care about the resource there's a lot of people who rely on the resource use the resource their major economic drivers I'm definitely I'm anything but I'm like I regard myself as a pro wolf person I regard myself as a pro grizzly person I cherish every interaction I have with those animals do you think I'd love to be around and I'm a resource I don't have a problem : respected people but people do have a problem with calling a resource and um and and yeah I'm like pro I'd like to ensue Tabo habitat I like to see them present I also like to see that that I also like to see them managed in a way that allows for abundant wild game resources what's going on House passed the bill to drop legal protections for gray wolves as passed today whoa I was two hours ago well roll down a little bit republican-controlled House passed a bill on Friday to drop legal protections for gray wolves across the lower 48 states reopening a lengthy battle over the predator species long despised by farmers and ranchers wolves were shot trap poisoned out of existence in most of the u.s. in the mid 20th century by the mid 20th century since securing protection in the 1970s wolves have bounced back while insolent really exactly what happened Great Lakes of Michigan Minnesota and Wisconsin as well in the Northern Rockies in Pacific Northwest that's sort of but they're not talking about the reintroduction the reintroduction is the big issue right well and that's what people have great issue with well yeah but the reintroduction is only in one area the the great lake the northern Great Lakes that was not a reintroduction there was you know one sizable population well movements of wolves coming down from Canada and coming back in the northern cotton the core northern Continental Divide ecosystem not a reintroduction you had a place famous yeah well yet the famous case of the famous reintroduction also National Park so it's widely viewed now it's widely viewed now that if you wouldn't have done that you would have had had you not done that reintroduction you too had a natural flow anyway a natural flow from Canada you've got it you devote you would have eventually you would have eventually have gotten there anyway interesting but would they have gotten to the exact same levels no no at this particular point right now and I think that'd be like laughable to act as though they'd be there now but but people there's no realization that you would have that without the reintroduction you would have through natural movement have eventually gotten you know do you think that that's the the that supports the idea of the reintroduction you think the reintroduction was well thought out I don't want it you know I'm not gonna debate the merits the reintroduction like I said my perspective on it is should be in a place where it supports them yeah my perspective on it is I don't the idea of extinction and regional extra patient sickens me I do not believe in I do not believe that like as a people as a culture we can justify or afford to remove species of wildlife from the landscape native species of wildlife from the landscape it's like I said the idea sickens me I'd like to you know I like to have all native wildlife present on the landscape so I don't oppose it what I oppose is a thing that's happened now is getting where we have populations that we agree like what will recovery look like and at what point when what how will we manage all the different viewpoints that are coming in all the different like interests of all these varied stakeholders and at what point where we get in there and manipulate the situation that we're creating I just would move that in a different direction where I think that when that recovered species right in this case we're time we're not wolves and Grizzlies I think that you should have that if you can do it in a sustainable way that doesn't have long-term deleterious impacts on the population so they should be managed as a renewable resource see this is where people are going to have issues the Germans don't have anything just even the term you manage them as a renewable resource you mean shoot them and kill them and use their fur sure I think that I think that recovered species that I think that if you put something on the endangered species act and it goes under federal protection and then when it reaches recovery and the US Fish and Wildlife Service says it's recovered it's time to hand it back to state management if a state then decides that they're going to do some limited harvest particularly let's say they're even if they're focusing on areas where there's like very high prevalence of human animal conflict and the state decides to do that in some like minor way as a way to service the needs of certain segments of their population that wants something to happen I don't think that then some at like an activist judge or or environmental groups or animal rights groups should come any be like well never mind we're going to pretend that they're not recovered now because we want prevent the state from doing something that we think is unsavory well the thought process behind the people that support blocking the hunt is that if you leave these animals alone naturally they're gonna find balance and that the Wolves will kill the elk and till there's not enough elk for them to sustain their populations and the numbers of their offspring will dwindle and they'll get to some sort of a sustainable level yeah but we already I mean we live in a Lhari live in a heavily manipulated kind of land a kind of manmade environment now the idea that things are gonna that we would just let things run their course and watch what happens isn't gonna happen you're still gonna have a lot of Grizzlies every year are still gonna get in trouble they're still gonna get killed you're still gonna have mortality you know you're gonna have tons of grizzly mortality in tough areas but their chilies aren't acting in packs that's not but they kill they kill cattle and they come up they brought up against humans it's just like it's inevitably gonna have some day you're not gonna let it run as a person as a hunter I also don't have a problem with an actually support as a hunter that we would you know while allowing wolves to be present on the landscape that we would mitigate their impact on big game I don't mind saying I don't mind just coming out and saying that I like to have high populations of big-game animals that are available to hunters and also at the same time sharing some of that resource they're having wolves on the ground doing it don't want to see them gone not anti Wolf not anti grizzly it's just one of those were it's it's because a wolf is so much like a dog and because there's not a great history of people eating I remember you tell me about one mountain man where's favorite food was wolf filled amor Steffensen yeah who's the arctic explorer what a crazy [ __ ] that guy must yeah huh Laurie love wolf meat you ever tried it no no no levian coyote you've eaten Caio so you've eaten a species I've never I've never killed a wolf never killed a grizzly bear mmm just haven't haven't eaten either oh I ate one coyote yeah didn't ate it didn't like it haven't messed with one since yeah you said that was similar to diver duck - right that was rammie rammie felt it tastes like bad diver duck ie diver ducks and still eat diver ducks but no I haven't no I haven't uh haven't done that anymore and and haven't included any coyote recipes and there's no coyote recipes in the wild game cookbook either wolf might be the ultimate one that people are gonna have a problem with it's a variant that might be where the the rubber hits the road well you know in some places become a moot point because Idaho Wyoming Montana all have state management of wolves yeah all of the things that were all these horrible things that were gonna happen when the states resumed management of wolves didn't materialize right but those places also have a rich history of hunting yeah but it was it was gonna be the end of wolves right it hasn't been in the first few years in the first few years the wolf seasons he actually had you actually saw the populations go up well it's so hard to hunt them right well they it winds up being that putting that with that little bit of hunting pressure on them really changed their really changed their movements and changed the way they perceive human threats and he adjusts to it pretty quickly but it hasn't led to you know I think a lot of people looking in those cases where it was pretty effective you know it was very effective to bring in to bring in limited regulated hunting had the desired effect on how wolves were using the landscape and ways in which they were interacting and avoiding humans and then I have no doubt - I have no doubt - like it'll the situational probably in the northern Great Lakes they had state management law state management like it bounces back and forth you're gonna you're gonna eventually I mean kind of depends on how the political winds blow but you're eventually gonna wind up with it there and you're not gonna see wolves vanish from the landscape you know you you just not if grizzly bears wind up doing it you're still gonna see you're gonna see gradually expanding populations of grizzly bears to fight despite the fact that they're using limited harvest to achieve certain management objectives it's not going to be in the world

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Length: 22min 7sec (1327 seconds)

Published: Fri Nov 16 2018