Joe Rogan discusses Cultural Appropriation with Moshe Kasher

hello freak [ __ ] so at any rate there's a story in there where he talks about uh talking this person who's like uh he lived in an all-white town except one of the clansmen that was de hooded talks about he lived in this all-white town and he was raised very racist and that black people were the worst and there was one black family like the Johnson's or whatever and his father told him all black people are the worst they're monkeys they're the worst except the Johnson's the Johnson's are good they're good people and he had this realization this like tickle in his brain of like wait my father hates all the black people except the black family that he's met like all black people are bad except the one group that he's actually met and that is like the phenomenon of othering right it's like oh black people are bad Muslims are bad but actually my friend Tom the Muslim he's nice but Muslims want to kill me but but Tom over here he he's a good dude anyway I think othering is like the big one of the big problems that we have well it's also I think what's going on with black lives matter one of the things that's going on is that they're in the middle of the battle right so you're in the middle of the battle every day you wake up Prime for battle you know you're getting online you're activ you know you're activating your membership you're you know organizing doing whatever and then if this guy comes along and he's doing something totally different he's out there talking to the Clans you go [ __ ] those people man what are you doing right totally yeah I I was I was for my show that uh my that I'm my Comedy Central show we're doing like we just did our cultural appropriation episode and I was uh studying so I was studying I was like deep in the cultural appropriation I was reading so much [ __ ] about it but one of the more interesting things it said about black lives matter it's kind of connected to this is that one thing that happens with cultural appropriation and things in general is that people seize on language we're in like a crazy language War right now right like so many of the phrases that we use uh are so charged with secondary and tertiary meaning that we can't they don't even mean anything anymore like white privilege is a concept that the moment you bring it up there's so manye levels of eye roll that it's like I don't even think it's a useful phrase anymore because it's like the moment you say White Privilege then a person the white person who you're saying is privilege is going like [ __ ] you and the minute someone's saying [ __ ] you the conversation has ended yeah so the thing they said about black lives matter was also a lot of silly people use that expression no doubt that's the weird baggage that it has like it's the thing that we learned about that I learned about cultural appropriation because for me I I roll my eyes so deeply at the concept of cultural appropriation right it's like oh so I shouldn't eat burritos anymore is that is that what you're also I always think I'm always really tickled with the idea of like the person saying oh you shouldn't wear that tribal gear and then it's like go to the third world country where the market is and tell the the like impoverished PE uh Merchant like oh I'm sorry I can't buy this bit of silk from you because it's racist for me to wear it that person's like please please buy it wear it like or you know what I'm saying or like the family that's like oh it would be a great honor if you would wear this sorry or whatever so it's a big eye roll except then you start to think like upon reading it it's like oh the thing is it's not incidental it's emotional it's like deeper than than just like trying to parse out the logic and go oh well I found an example where your thing falls apart it's like it's emotion there's an emotional reaction like when when somebody you know affects you know dreads up their hair even though you can say but people have been dreading their hair in other cultures for a million years Vikings had dreads and that is true you it doesn't matter because the person that's in front of you that's a black person that's going I have pain when I'm I have this pain that I'm looking at you know a person that's affecting my culture without any of the negative parts right so you can you can wear the hair and you can have the dreads but why is that okay just because of the word culture because if if that's the case with someone else some someone wearing something that you might find a like what if you're a person that's extremely uh conservative when it comes to dress you see a woman in a short skirt and you have pain should that impose upon that woman's ability to wear that skirt no definitely and I'm not making a case that anybody's pain ought to be automatically uh uh adopted as like a behavioral standard right that's that's not really what I I learned from this whole discussion is it's like it's not really about going no one is really saying except the most emotionally kind of uh inferior like the person that doesn't have the language to express what they're really saying almost no one that I read when I was think reading these real like intellectuals and their concepts of cultural appropriation is saying white people should stop doing this stuff altogether almost no one I didn't find one left-wing woke article that said white people should stop adopting the culture of other of people of color right okay I I read a lot of right-wing pieces that were saying this is absurd why are you telling us to stop adopting these cultures isn't all culture a Melting Pot and all culture borrowing but not once did I read somebody saying white people stop this altogether well what did you read so so mostly and I hope I can articulate this well because I'm I'm not the best advocate for this position CU like I said it's it's it's one that I struggle with it's dubious it's dubious and difficult and and there are ridiculous parts of the cultural appropriation argument but but one thing that like it's all connected to historical trauma it's all deeper like basically let's see if I can articulate this well what this one um this one person and I wish I could find his name actually but uh because he deserves it because he's a really deep thinker about this stuff was talking about was that you know we have racism right racism is a a huge word that that describes everything from a white person like hugging their purse closer to their chest when a black person walks by or even like a weird like you just the smallest little racial weirdness all the way to lighting a cross on somebody's fire on somebody's lawn to murdering someone like that's all encompassed in racism so they started trying to like parse it out people are going oh when you call someone a racist right they go I'm not a racist you're calling me a monster and then somebody will go oh no I meant like a systemically racist it's like you need more specific right examples so cultural appropriation is one white privilege is another there's all these right but still go back to cult what what cultural appropriation like you said that no one was saying don't do it right so what they what so what are they doing when they're trying to chop someone's dreads off okay I don't know about the spe a I mean what what example you mean the San Francisco State example where the girl attacked the guy I mean that girl was just inarticulately expressing some Insanity I don't I don't think that's defensible and I and I think most of the Articles and the stuff that I read about that specific instance are just like basically saying that woman's an an a a lunatic well I've heard people though enforce it and I know someone who was mad at their friend is a black girl was mad her friend who was a white girl who had braids she had like cornrows and she was mad because she was saying it's cultural cultural appropriation I said do you know about Bo Derek right like like she was one of the first people to ever have corn Romans you know there's cornrow on Roman coins actually right I mean it's it's a crazy thing to call that cultural appropriation but also saying that a white person shouldn't wear that that's [ __ ] crazy because what do you what about a black guy wearing a polo shirt well okay so okay there there's a good example right yeah is uh and again I'm not like I I'm not the greatest advocate for this position I just read so much that made me empathize with the position not necessarily agree with it but empathize with where it's coming from so the polo for example when you see you as a white dude or me as a white dude when I see somebody wearing a polo it's just a polo it has no historical anticon it has no historical baggage to it no connection to systemic racism or Elvis Presley stealing the cream of the intellectual musical crop and then never giving back to that Community or igy aelia coming in adopting a black accent and then just like taking all the money and running you know it has no connection to deeper root systems like these trees have that communicate with each other like taste bitter right so all it is is a polo it's just a guy wearing a polo and that's why the the counterargument doesn't make sense because it's like nobody's upset when they see a black dude in a polo shirt uh I mean maybe some weird racist guy is is but mostly not on the other hand when a person sees a uh like a a a white person affecting a deep part of black culture without any of the uh baggage that is associated with it like for example dreads right one of the arguments I I read a lot is that like white people wearing braids and dreads you know you get rewarded for it you look cool you look awesome and meanwhile black women are having a difficult time getting a job because because they have black hair uh or black people are getting fired from jobs because they have dreads right so there's these consequences that black people experience because of black [ __ ] that white people that are adopting it don't necessarily experience I don't think that's true at all I think if you were working in an office and some white dude had dreads he'd be highly suspicious of his behavior well for example like this this guy's kind of dork I hear what you're saying want hire him a guy who had hair like you and right next to him is some stinky white dude with them stinky dreads cuz dreads stink okay take dreads out let's say that's a good example you used there in the US military there was just a a new um a new set of acceptable hairstyles and mo almost every one of the unacceptable hairstyles that they that they AC that they put into place in was basically black hair like what braids wearing your hair natural um I don't know natural what do you mean I mean I would have to we' have to like an afro yeah a Short afro yeah I mean you're not allowed to do that you you'd have to pull up the article to give the specific examples but basically there are a million different examples like that and like I said I'm not I'm not necessarily an advocate for heed and and honor the call of the appropriation accuser I'm more like now realizing that uh I'm more now realizing that there's like just a lot of deep emotional weird trauma underneath every every accusation of appropriation it's not that I think therefore white girls shouldn't wear braids it's that I think I understand more where the person that is upset is coming from it just from a compassion perspective MH yeah no I get that I get that it just logically it doesn't jive it's not about logic yeah but it should be all human interaction should have some base in logic if you're going to communicate with things I don't agree because emotions aren't about logic right but should anybody be subject to your own emotions like should like you change your behavior your dress if you're person who's completely not racist but you enjoy the way your hair looks if it's in braids should you take into consideration all the people that you're going to run into and they're going to be upset at you over braids even though they're ignorant about the history of braids and cornrow should you alter or change your behavior should you accept the fact that you're just going to have a certain amount of cultural appropriation well let me ask you this like if you I I don't have an answer to that question I don't think so that is an important part of this I mean if you're going to accept the fact there's some sort of an emotional attachment to these things that's where the argument comes from shouldn't you decide or at least contemplate whether or not that emotion is valid it doesn't seem to be seems to be there's real examples of racism and horrible things like if you want to you know uh make your eyes squinty and look like a Japanese character from a Bugs Bunny cartoon in you know 1940 and then you want to go to a party and people think you're a racist you should you should be aware that you're presenting an image that is inherently racist like that's that's something that's kind of [ __ ] up and you should be considerate about the way people's emotions are going to fire up looking at your image that's what I'm saying yeah but that's a different thing than braids oh but oh but that's what I'm I'm not advocating first of all I'm not advocating anything I'm just saying I've I've delved into this topic enough that I've started to understand where people are coming from when they when they get activated by this stuff I understand too but I think a big part of it is reinforcement in the community that that's acceptable to be upset at people cornrow or braids I don't and I don't I actually don't disagree with you I think you're right about that and yet I think it also is connected to like a a legitimate emotional reality that's happening like for example by the way logic is is very important and I would say logic is more important than emotion when it comes to communication but it doesn't because something is more important doesn't negate the the importance of the other thing well certainly doesn't solve the situation just by clearly using the logic you might get a certain percentage of the people that agree with you because of logic but that's more rare than it is common right it's like would you would you feel comfortable going to a Native American powwow you know with a headdress on not even a pow there's a powow next door you can see it and you're at a music festival would you wear an Indian headdress no I wouldn't but the reason why you can't and the reason why you shouldn't or the reason why it's an issue is because the people are marginalized let me take my own people I'm Italian and my people for the longest time there was a lot of anti-italian racism my grandfather used to talk to me about it what it was like coming off the boat but then somewhere along the line it became acceptable for Italians in in American culture where it's not there's no real racism it doesn't stick like you call a guinea you can call us a guinea to our face we we'll laugh no one cares you can make meatballs and spaghetti all day long nobody gives a [ __ ] nobody nobody accuses you of uh you know you have a pizza party nobody thinks it's cultural appropriation but try having a taco party try having taco Tuesdays people get pissed at you why because Mexicans still experience real RAC ISM in this country whereas Italians largely just don't right and like taco Tuesday is an example of something that's like who [ __ ] cares that's not important and and so if wearing a sombrero offensive to lot people if that's as that's as deep as most people go right is that's dumb what do you talking about a can't e a taco I mean that's dumb and it is dumb but if you kind of like get under the dumb which is the name of my my third my third special so it's mouthfucking it's live live in Oakland mouthfucking Hitler and then get under the dumb but if you get under the first like the most you epidermal layer of like flashy insanity and go like what's really happening here is like oh it's just what you're saying actually you're more woke than you than you let on it's like it's really about like power dynamics it's not really about the appropriation incident although on some level maybe it is it's really about the power Dynamic underneath it well I think one of the things that we're seeing in universities in particular is people that are exercising the ability to affect change even if it doesn't make sense they have the ability to uh point out something that they think is in incorrect or is unjust and then they attack it and go after it and they see results right and by seeing those results it's almost in a lot of ways kind of attached to the same idea like if you're worth x amount of dollars why do you still chase money because you're trying to get the thrill of the accomplishment there's the game that's going on and there's a certain amount of game going on trying to get that white kid that you don't even know to cut off his dreads whether or not you know that the Romans wore dreads not you know the Greeks War dreads the Vikings all these different people had them it doesn't matter it's like there's a little tiny white guy and that girl could yell at that white guy then chase him with a pair of scissors yeah exactly it's it's the incidents are the absurdity but the but the current the conceptual current is somewhat valid I mean to some degree you I'm sorry no but to some degree like even you and I think that you're naturally skeptical towards Concepts like cultural appropriation because and I am too because as especially as comedians it's very easy to see the absurdity it's so stupid and it's so it's so pointless like we can't not adopt each other's cultures that won't ever happen so but even we go okay but I wouldn't wear a sombrero to a Mexican club I wouldn't walk into a club like oh hey what's up right so so if you say okay it's almost pornography right I know it when I see it right I know when it's I know it's offensive when I feel it you know so if you kind of expand further and go okay even the Absurd examples I kind of I'm going to try to understand for me I'm going to try to understand where people are coming from with that then I can kind of contextualize it now I don't have to agree with it but I can at least say oh I get where this is coming from it's coming from historical antecedence of racism and oppression that are connected to hairstyle and and the and and uh all of these U musicians that have taken black culture and made money off of it there's all this like deeper sedimentary layers of emotionality I don't have to heed it and change accordingly but I do I would be foolish to ignore it right yeah that that completely makes sense and also I get it from a point of view of a person who comes from a culture that used to be maligned and isn't anymore I wanted to make one final point about because I I think I figured out how to make my cultural appropriation Point uh I don't want to take us back too far but I think what we're what we're doing is like and we came to a good place with it is like what we're talking about it's all about language right so cultural appropriation you're immediate reaction is that's absurd and some of the examples people use is absurd but the the underneath the racism is just we're talking about racial insensitivity we're talking about being sensitive and if you try to just focus on that then you can get to like the reality of what's happening and what the original point I wanted to make was in this article I read about it it said that we often get locked on these linguistic the the the boat that the concept floats in on the Absurd boat so like black lives matter is the ultimate example he gave I just thought this was such a fascinating point is like like black lives matter is the name of the organization that is there to fight against police brutality and killing of black kids right and people react to the words right so people go what are you talking about black lives matter all lives matter blue lives matter and basically if you you don't acknowledge that it's black Liv matter to which is really obvious right you're fighting about the words black lives matter where we haven't been talking you've left the the foundation principle behind like a long time ago which is police brutality no one's even talking about police brutality anymore now they're just talking about the language that you chose to call your group right so at any rate I think that was the the thing I was trying to say no that makes sense look all of it makes sense if what is going on is people are being racist right if someone is doing something if racial inappropriation or sex or um cultural inappropriation at the heart of it involves racial insensitivity or racist insensitivity but there's there's difference right racist theoretically racist is and again racism is a word that doesn't have a lot of use anymore either because you describe the same phenomenon of you saying to like your black friend like wow I didn't expect you to be so articulate you mean well right you mean you you're trying to be polite or I don't like black people they're they're bad these are the same it's the same word to describe both of those things right right so insensitivity is is not overt an aggressive racism yeah I think yeah yeah yeah it's insensitive it's insensitive racism like you're not being sensitive to the possibility that you're saying something offensive or just doing something boorishly dumb now I agree with you that logic's more important than that than that but I think you know the more aware we can all be about how to not be a dick the better it's like people want to say um you know you could never have All in the Family on TV today could you imagine people would go crazy well they that cuz we moved past that I mean that's what's going on what's going on is there's a process and one of the things that's disturbing to people about Trump and what's disturbing to people about this new um freedom to mock Jews or to point at them as the root of all evil and that it's much more open than it's been before is it we thought we got through that and that slowly but surely the demonization of individual groups in in terms of you know like who who are the bad guys and who are the good guys and instead have it been boiled down to activities and behaviors and individual human beings that are the problem not not giant groups of people that believe in one God versus another God which is what it's been historically right the idea is that as time goes on and as people like my people the Italians become so integrated that you can't be racist about us anymore right it doesn't work right totally I mean it really doesn't work it's one of the best examples of it and totally it's it's fascinating because there's so many things that are there still and you're like they don't have any charge or power any longer not only that there's so much gross Behavior by Italians that just goes unchecked uhhuh you know and I think The Sopranos is probably responsible for a lot of that I was in Italy uh last year and I was walking home real late at night and I saw this guy he's got his girlfriend up against the car and he's [ __ ] like going off on her and I'm like this little like liberal American Boy like is somebody gonna call the police and then I kind of stood stood there for a while longer and he's screaming in her face and then I just like looked for about like two or three minutes I go oh this is just some Italian [ __ ] I just walked home [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: JRE Clips

Views: 32,348

Keywords: Joe Rogan Experience, podcast, MMA, UFC, comedy, comedian, stand up, funny, JRE, clip, favorite, best of, Joe Rogan, Moshe Kasher, cultural appropriation

Id: CSCSJMQWWX8

Length: 21min 45sec (1305 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 11 2017