WELCOME BACK. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY NEXT
GUESTS TONIGHT ARE THE PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING JOURNALISTS WHO
BROKE THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN STORY FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES." THEIR NEW BOOK ABOUT THAT AND
THE REVOLUTIONARY #MeToo MOVEMENT THAT FOLLOWED IN ITS
IS CALLED "SHE SAID." PLEASE WELCOME JODI KANTOR AND
MEGAN TWOHEY! ♪ ♪ ♪<i>
( APPLAUSE )</i> ♪ ♪ ♪<i>
( APPLAUSE )</i> >> Stephen: HI. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> WE'RE GLAD TO BE HERE. >> Stephen: I HAVE FOLLOWED
YOUR WORK CLOSELY, ESPECIALLY THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND
I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR BOOK, SOME OF WHICH I HAVE
READ ALREADY. IT'S CALLED "SHE SAID." AND IT'S ABOUT BREAKING THE
SEXUAL HARASSMENT STORY THAT HELPED IGNITE A MOVEMENT. YOU BOTH WON THE PULITZER PRIZE
IN 2018. NOT FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING,
BUT FOR PUBLIC SERVICE. WHICH IS THE BEST PULITZER
PRIZE, RIGHT? <i> ( APPLAUSE )</i>
THAT IS THE BEST? IS THAT THE BEST ONE? >> IT MEANT A LOT TO US. >> Stephen: IT'S THE BEST ONE. THIS REPORTING THAT YOU DID--
JUST TO REMIND EVERYBODY-- IT IGNITED A MOVEMENT, A CHANGE IN
OUR VINICULTURE AND HAD RAMIFICATIONS ACROSS NOT ONLY
HARVEY WEINSTEIN'S INDUSTRY BUT ACROSS MANY, AND MANY PEOPLE'S
LIVES. WHEN YOU WENT TO PUBLISH THAT
ORIGINAL ARTICLE, DID YOU KNOW WHAT WAS COMING IN ITS WAKE? >> WE-- WE HAD NO IDEA. ALL WE KNEW AT THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" IN 2017 IS THAT WE WERE COMMITTED TO INVESTIGATING
SEXUAL HARASSMENT ACROSS A VARIETY OF INDUSTRIES FROM
HOLLYWOOD TO SILICON VALLEY, TO THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, AND
EVEN THE AUTO PLANTS. BUT WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE
IMPACT OF THOSE INVESTIGATIONS WERE GOING TO BE WHATSOEVER. >> Stephen: THIS BOOK NOW IS
BEING CALLED AN "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S' MEN" OF THE
#MeeToo ERA. WHY TELL THE STORY BEHIND THE
STORY YOU TOLD. >> BECAUSE THESE STORIES HAVE
COME TO MEAN SO MUCH TO SO MANY PEOPLE, WE WANTED TO BRING
EVERYBODY ELSE WITH US ON THIS JOURNEY. FIRST OF ALL, A LOT OF WHAT
ORIGINALLY HAPPENED IN THIS INVESTIGATION WAS OFF THE
RECORD. SO WE NEEDED TO GO BACK AND FIND
A WAY TO SHARE THOSE SECRETS AND TO BRING PEOPLE THROUGH THE
PROCESS AND REALLY SHOW YOU WHAT WE WITNESSED TO BRING YOU INTO
OUR PARTNERSHIP, HAVE YOU THERE IN OUR OFFICE DURING THE FINAL
CONFRONTATIONS WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN. AND, ALSO, WE WANTED TO PUSH
FURTHER BECAUSE THE INITIAL INVESTIGATION SHOWED A PIECE OF
THE PUZZLE. BUT THERE WERE SO MANY
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: HOW COULD A COMPANY, THE WEINSTEIN
COMPANY, BECOME SO EXPLICIT IN ABUSE, FOR EXAMPLE? THAT'S A STORY ABOUT THE
WEINSTEIN COMPANY, BUT IT'S ALSO A STORY ABOUT ALL OF OUR
WORKPLACES, IF YOU SEE SOME SORT OF WRONGDOING IN YOUR WORKPLACE,
WHAT DO YOU DO? >> Stephen: TELL ME ABOUT THE
FINAL CONFRONTATIONS WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN. WHAT KIND OF INTIMIDATIONS DID
HE, AND I ASSUME THE COMPANY, BRING TO BEAR AGAINST YOU GUYS? >> HE AMASSED A GROUP OF
HIGH-POWERED LAWYERS WHO WERE GOING TO THREATEN US WITH A
LAWSUIT IF WE WENT FORWARD WITH OUR STORY. HE HIRED A PRIVATE INVESTIGATIVE
FIRM MADE UP OF FORMER ISRAELI PROFESSIONAL INDIVIDUALS
PROMISED $300,000 IF THEY PUT A STOP ON OUR INVESTIGATION. AND IN THE 11th HOUR, AS WE
PREPARED TO PUBLISH, HARVEY WEINSTEIN BASICALLY BARG BARGED
"NEW YORK TIMES" HIMSELF, FOLLOWED BY SOME OF HIS LAWYERS
AND FOLDERS AND INFORMATION HE WAS HOPING TO USE TO SMEAR HIS
ACCUSERS. >> Stephen: WE'RE COMING UP--
THIS WAS IN OCTOBER OF 2017, RIGHT? SO WE'RE COMING UP ON THE
TWO-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE PUBLICATION OF THIS STORY AND
THE IGNITING OF THE #MeeToo MOVEMENT-- THE HASHTAG TOO,
AND THE IDEA EXISTED BEFOREHAND, BUT THIS REALLY AMPLIFIED IT,
AND IT BECAME A NATIONAL MOVEMENT. SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT IT'S GONE
TOO FAR, THAT SOME WE'LL GET SWEPT UP IN THE DESIRE TO CHANGE
THE CULTURE AND SEXUALLY DYNAMICS CERTAINLY IN THE
WORKPLACE, AND THAT THERE HAVE BEEN CASUALTIES ALONG THE WAY,
THAT IT'S GONE TOO FAR. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THOSE
ASSESSMENTSES? >> WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN OUR
REPORTING IS THERE'S A MOUNTING SENSE OF UNFAIRNESS ON BOTH
SIDES. AND, ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY FEES THAT OUR SYSTEM WORKS FOR THE ACCUSED OR THE
ACCUSERS. BASICALLY, THERE ARE THREE
QUESTIONS ABOUT #MeeToo THAT REMAIN TOTALLY UNRESOLVED. ONE IS WHAT IS THE SCOPE OF THE
BEHAVIORS UNDER SCRUTINY? ARE WE ONLY TALKING ABOUT REALLY
SEVERE CASES OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, RAPE? OR IS THIS ALSO ABOUT BAD DATES? SECOND OF ALL, HOW DO WE GET THE
FACTS RIGHT? HOW DO WE GET TO THE BOTTOM OF
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION DO WE TRUST AND
NOT TRUST IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED? AND THEN THE THIRD IS WHAT
SHOULD PUNISHMENT OR ACCOUNTABILITY LOOK LIKE? AND ALL THREE OF THOSE QUESTIONS
ARE REALLY CONTROVERSIAL. AND --
>> Stephen: AND THE ANSWERS TO ALL THREE ARE... >> I MEAN, CLEARLY WE'RE GOING
TO SETTLE THIS RIGHT HERE ASK RIGHT NOW. >> Stephen: EXACTLY, BEFORE
THE COMMERCIAL BREAK RIGHT NOW. >> LOOK, THE CONTRIBUTION THAT
WE CAN MAKE IS THAT WE'RE JOURNALISTS AND YOU CAN'T SOLVE
A PROBLEM YOU CAN'T SEE. AND WE WILL KEEP REPORTING SO
THAT WE CAN REPORT THE TRUE HISTORY OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. >> Stephen: YOU ARE
JOURNALISTS, AND YOU TALK ABOUT THAT IN TERMS OF YOUR NEED TO
ACTUALLY KNOW. IN RESPONSE TO THE IDEA THAT IS
A VERY WELL-MEANING ONE THAT I THINK HAS A VERY POSITIVE EFFECT
OVERALL, WHICH IS BELIEVE WOMEN. BUT POINT OUT THAT AS
JOURNALISTS, YOU'VE GOT A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE TOWARD
BELIEVING. WHAT IS THE MOTTO THAT ONE OF
YOUR COLLEAGUES HAS ON HIS DESK? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY, ONE
OF MY REPORTERRIZE GOT MY START AT A NEWSPAPER IN WISCONSIN, AND
MY EDITOR USED TO HAVE A SAYING PINNED OVER HIS DESK WHICH WAS,
"IF YOUR MOTHER TELLS YOU SHE LOVES YOU, CHECK IT OUT," WHICH
I THINK-- WHICH I THINK SPEAKS TO AT LEAST WHEN WE AS REPORTERS
APPLY TO ALL OF THE WORK THAT WE DO WHEN IT COMES TO REPORTING
ALLEGATIONS OF ANY KIND. I MEAN, WE REALLY APPLY A VERY
RIGOROUS PROCESS OF CORROBORATION AND DUE DILIGENCE,
AND EVEN IN THE END, GOING TO THE ACCUSERS-- EXCUSE ME, TO THE
ACCUSED-- TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ADEQUATE TIME TO RESPOND SO WE
CAN ENSURE ACCURACY AND FAIRNESS. EVEN WHEN IT INVOLVES HARVEY
WEINSTEIN BARGING INTO THE "NEW YORK TIMES," WE'RE GOING TO GO
THROUGH THAT PROCESS TO MAKE SURE WIRE PRODUCING AIR-TIGHT
STORY S. >> Stephen: WE HAVE TO ATTACK
A LITTLE BIT OF A BREAK. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH MORE
JODI KANTOR AND MEGAN TWOHEY. WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHERE WE GO
FROM HERE.
