Jocko Podcast 163 w/ Jason Redman: The Trident. Overcoming Adversity

this is Jocko podcast number 163 echo Charles and me Jacque are willing good evening echo good evening I am bleeding out I can feel my life ebbing away as blood seeps from my body into the Iraqi soil a few Brown weeds splashed crimson now are crushed around me as I lay sprawled on my back in the middle of this ambush the weeds offer no concealment I'm in the open alone and wounded sizzles of pain hid me in waves like pulses of electricity a bullet has torn off my left arm after I get hit I reach over to grab my left hand it isn't there I hunt around feeling only the gear on the far left side of my body no arm I try to move the fingers on my left hand but my mind sends signals to a station that doesn't exist now I can't feel anything but pain bullets kick dirt in my face through my night-vision goggles I see green blooms of light strobing the darkness muzzle flashes from automatic weapons ten metres away an enemy machine-gun opens fire again it is a belt-fed russian-made crew-served weapon probably a PKM they sound like giant zippers tearing open when the Gunners go cyclic like now the air around me erupts with sharp cracks the miniature sonic booms of 760 millimeter bullets speeding past me at 2500 feet per second the terrorist gunner lowers his aim a spurt of dust blows across my face again several bullets passed so close to my head that I feel shockwaves as they go by to the left an ak-47 assault rifle opens up then another I'm pinned in a crossfire without cover or concealment a crippled sitting duck in a kill zone at least a hundred metres long and 75 deep with my right hand I key the radio handset I have mounted on my chest troops in contact troops in contact I call to my command we have three severely wounded including me static greets my words I can't duck I can't crawl away there's no place to hide all I can do is ignore the incoming fire and stay focused the PKM gun PKM gunner finds the range bullets crack around me dirt flies the terrorist eases up on the trigger trigger but only for a second I hear him unleash another burst then I hear nothing at all and those right there are some excerpts from the opening chapter of a book called the Trident which is written by a retired seal officer by the name of Jason J Redman and this book does an incredible job not only of bringing the reader to the front lines in some pretty chaotic combat situations but equally important it brings the reader into the challenges of leadership and the challenges of life especially the challenges of facing significant adversity and Jay's book humbly splays those challenges wide open for all to see and that humility from Jay is what makes this book so beneficial he tells us plainly and bluntly of his personal triumphs and tragedies his victories and his defeats and how he eventually found success and overcame by traveling the path of humility and since I have the honor of actually knowing Jay he has been kind enough to come by this evening and talk about his experiences with us so with that mr. Jay Redman thanks for stopping by brother Jocko brother echo thank you thank you both for having me on awesome dude awesome to have you sitting here man hey man honored to still be here blessed that's for sure you know like I tell so many people I'm living on a second chance you know you and I got too many brothers who are not I don't know why the big man decided to give me a chance but I'm making the most of it outstanding so I want to try and start you know a little bit at the beginnings people get a little bit familiar with where you are everyone always wants to know where people are where people came from how they grew up I'm going to the book right here I came from a family with a rich tradition of service so in retrospect this made sense my dad was a US Army Airborne rigger at Fort Campbell during the Vietnam War my paternal grandfather earned a Distinguished Flying Cross while piloting a b-24 Liberator bomber over the flak filled skies of Hitler's Europe I also had a great-uncle who flew fighter aircraft in the southwest Pacific during World War two he made the ultimate sacrifice in battle against the Japanese I dreamed of adding to that legacy a life of combat medals and service I was young and naive and had a long road to travel before I could truly understand what my grandfather and great-uncle gave for the country but that idealism became a very big part of me I wanted to carry a rifle for a living my dad watched this desire grow in me and decided to focus it my freshman year in high school he sat me down in our tiny living room and said you know Jay we had these guys come through airborne school they were US Navy called seals they jumped out of airplanes swam they blues blue stuff up given how you loved the water maybe you ought to look into them so your dad planted the seed huh it did yeah a young age and you know this was 90 play I'm sorry probably 89 you know 88 89 back then you really couldn't find hardly anything about the SEAL Teams and this was at a point in time where GI Joe was big I mean I'm a you know 12 13 year old kid into that and then I was probably about 14 when my dad told me about the SEAL Teams and started researching it found almost nothing and by sheer happenstance one of the guys in our church was a huge special operations buff he was a guy that was unable to go in the military he had had polio actually when he was a kid but he was just infatuated by it and he had done tons of research and he actually had collected some things about the SEAL Teams he had an old soldier of Fortune magazine and yeah it was awesome it's so different nowadays no now did you just google it exactly back in the day you had to be lucky enough to know some dude in church who happen to have a copy of the issue of soldier of fortune magazine is that still a thing his fortune still out there that dude it actually is as a matter of fact somehow and some weird twist of fate I ended up being on the cover of soldier of fortune after the book came out and it was the most bizarre thing because now you know you're in the military and you look at this thing you kind of laugh it's a fortune it's a little bit of a you know really focuses on probably the the gung-ho aspect of soft as opposed to you came full circle yeah full circle that's for sure build a soldier of fortune it was it was pretty funny but but that magazine and that journey of coming to understand who these guys were they you really couldn't find much about them it just drew me in even more and the only thing the core thread that I found over and over again was toughest training in the military and you know I was a young kid I was a small kid and I just had this inner fire that if you told me I couldn't do something it just drove me even more to want to do it and everyone you know at that point in my life that's probably four foot 11 and about 90 yesterday so when I told people I was gonna become a seal they laughed me out of the room and that just fueled me even harder and I set my sights on that dream and that's where I was going and you use some of the things you did he started playing football you started getting involved in sports to make sure you were physically fit and all that so that was part of the driving factors part of any good way to sort of prepare at least in a minimum way for buds yeah absolutely I mean I wanted to build a mindset I knew that fitness I knew that being part of a team I knew that pushing myself in different areas so I started wrestling and I started playing football and I was the smallest guy on our team but man I just I love football I've always loved football my dad had always told me no you're too small too small you're gonna get hurt and so probably my 10th grade year I said you know I don't care what you're telling me I'm going out for the team and thankfully we lived in a really small town and I think they would take anyone and they looked at me and they said well you know we can at least use you as a tackling dummy and and I said Roger that I'll do it Masamune oh I will you know I'll hit somebody as hard as my 95 pounds camp and got out there and just I love the sport you know I was you know not a starter in any way but uh I was out there every day just grinding and I try and lay the hardest hit so I could on people and I played receiver and cornerback and nice yeah now I was also a little bit as I read through the book and was kind of piecing together what you were like when you were kid I got to this point here and she's kind of a little bit of a different direction going back to the book at the same time I fell in with the wrong crowd I got a job my junior year and my work friends were drinkers I started sneaking out of the house by sliding down the antenna pole outside my window I'd meet with friends we'd go drink I'd stagger home drunk at odd hours of the night scaling the side of the house with the help of that pole my family tried to nudge me into course correction but I had a chip on my shoulder and refused to listen especially to my dad things got worse my relationship with my father and stepmom spiraled out of control into the ground months of this war us all down that slide continued that that happens right I mean that straight-up happens to kids especially boys and I think it has to do with I'm gonna prove myself that's what I think hey I'm gonna prove myself and one of the ways that you prove yourself is by proving that you're willing to sacrifice in a way and what better way when you're 16 years old to prove is like oh watch what I'll do I'll drink I'll drink this whole bottle and I think that leads to young males doing a lot of dumb stuff and it sounds like you're right on board absolutely you know the thing that saved me though this is where I got really lucky is I was smart enough and and disciplined enough to understand that if I got myself in any kind of major trouble I wouldn't be able to go in the seal to us so like I said we lived in a real small town in rural North Carolina and you know drugs were prevalent and a lot of my friends were starting to get into that and I just said man if I get you know that'll stop me from going in the Navy so at least there was kind of a line I wasn't willing to cross and I'm fortunate there were a couple of times we got ourselves in trouble where you know we were right on the edge of the law being involved and you know we managed to dodge that bullet but yeah I wanted to get out there I wanted to fit in so I think it's a combination of both peer pressure as a young man you know I want to fit in with this group but I have my hopes and dreams so this is the direction I'm going and I think that's where a lot of young men get off track they want to fit in so much that they give up on their hopes and dreams and they get sucked down this path for me I had such a little laser focus on what I wanted to do that it at least kept me in check yeah I will say this just to kind of add to that point from my perspective if you've got someone that's aspiring to do something you know hire the people that don't have those aspirations are more than happy to try and crush that dream for them and more than happy to pull them down and so I've found that for out life if you have some high aspiration that you're trying to achieve where you see someone that's got high aspirations that they're trying to achieve you can watch the people around them if they're not good people I'll try and rip those things and pull them down and pull them off that track scary and it's unequivocally true I mean it's one of the tenants you know I now speak on something I call the Pentagon at peak performance and the fifth level is or I'm sorry the fourth level is social leadership so how we lead ourselves how we build our ring of friends and influencers and and you're unequivocally right a great influence or an entrepreneur I've been recently working with he gives an amazing analogy of he was up in Alaska on a vacation he was walking the beach and there was a fisherman that was fishing with the net and catching craps and he was putting the craps in a bucket and you know it's really morning and the guys name pedro's Cooley and and bedros was watching this happen you know early in the morning looked in the bucket there was about 10 crabs then probably about you know 5 gallon bucket and probably about 8 inches of water and he kept watching this one crap would climb up and grab on to the edge of the bucket and try and pull itself out and he like tells the fisherman hey hey man dad I won't let you know you're gonna lose one of your crops and the fisherman doesn't even turn around look at him keeps drawing his net and he goes watch what happens and bad rows kind of steps back and he looks down into the bucket and he watches is all the other crabs grab onto that other crap and pull him back down and he had this epiphany moment of the circles of influence he had in his life and he was like oh my god I have crabs in my life he's like I have people that I want to climb up and be better and they're pulling me down and it is unequivocally true I mean it's something I brought up to the bud students yesterday I said if you want to be the best seal you need to surround yourself with the guys who are driven disciplined and they're pushing themselves to the edge if you want to go to the next level you need to surround yourself with the guys who are either already there or they aspire to get there because if you're gonna surround yourself with people who are content to just drink and not move forward at all they're gonna try and pull you into that circle because they're gonna feel threatened that you don't want to do what they're doing and they want you to assimilate with them burst driving forward and being successful it's unfortunate it's just kind of a way of life it's a it's a horrible it's a horrible situation so watch out for it because it's everywhere so how did you end up so you graduate high school and go to recruiter and boom right I mean any any other particular things around the recruitment process yeah the recruitment process was actually I actually kind of got off track a little so I went to the recruiting station I assumed as I decide I want to be a seal I went to the recruiting station so I was 15 years old that's 95 pound weakling and walk into the recruiting station and I'm like hey I want to be a seal and there was an old crusty I mean he was like an old school probably 25 years 6 and just crusty is all get out you know boats ins mate and that dude basically laughed me out of the office was like get out of here stop wasting our time you know you you couldn't even carry the paddle much less the boat you know get out of my office and it didn't faze me in the least I came back like next week and was like I want to be a seal and they this guy chased me out of the office I came back about four or five times and he just continued to not even give me the time of day so finally I was you know kind of tired of that I try the way things are real rough when a recruiter won't give a kid the time of day yeah take that quota this is hardcore oh man yeah well I mean you think about a 25 year he's six yeah yeah he was at a point he didn't really care so uh you know when I got to the point I came back again probably about eight months later and at this point I'd you know really started training I was focused on it I didn't let him deter me and I came back and he had left just by sheer happenstance he was gone and there was a new recruiter in there a guy by the name of Henry horn Henry if you're out there and you listen to this I've never been able to track him down and thank him but Henry took me in and was like yeah man absolutely we sit down and had this video you may remember this be someone special and it was the cheesiest it was like nineteen eighties video at at its best yeah and and it was this high-speed you know the shields come in on a helicopter and they get out and they take down this target and take out these terrorists and you know the the tagline is be someone special and I just ate it up man and came back on a regular basis and and Henry was fantastic he told me these are the things you need to do you know as bad fitness this is what's gonna happen so went to went to go sign up you know right as I was turning 17 I was gonna do the delayed Entry Program and I went to go sign up and went so I got back up for a second there was a glitch I'm sorry I got my facts backwards here I actually because of the deal with the crusty East six I was and him being a block to me I changed my mind decided go army up first Henry happened after this I'm sorry I got that backwards Henry happened after this and when I went back I decided to join the army I said we'll find my dad you know he was army the Rangers I'll go the Green Beret route so I went to MEPs to prot or to do my intake screening for the army delayed Entry Program and I failed the physical because when I was a kid I had ruptured my eardrum and I had a lot of scar tissue on my eardrum and the army said oh well you're not gonna be able to equalize so they tried to convince me to still go in they were like oh well you don't have to be an Airborne Ranger you know you can do this or you can do that you can drive trucks and I was like nah man that's not what I want to do so I left and I didn't sign up and probably a couple months went by and then that's when I came back and the krusty e6 was gone and Henry Horne was there and really helped pave that path so kind of an interesting Road and I think the lesson is this is there's always going to be roadblocks that are going to deter you from your dreams you know don't let it stop you keep driving forward because by you know if I just listen to that guy right for getting you know I never would have been a seal sure yes you go in you show up at Budds I like this is a good going back to the book your your intro to buds one night I was asked ordered to escort a member of class 199 back to his room building in 602 he'd quit the program and the Navy required an escort for anyone who rang the bell during hell week I went off to find him in the darkness he was waiting for me a smaller guy like me wrapped in a blanket he was shivering so badly he seemed ready to fly apart he put the blanket over his head like a hood giving him a monastic look he said little so we made our way to the barracks in silence I walked alongside him fit fit to burst wanting to get any details on what I'd soon experience finally I couldn't stand him anymore as he reached his door and opened it I blurted it out so come on man what was it like he turned to me and looked me in the eyes his rooms night light cast an orange glow across his face his skin was waxing and he looked hollowed out at length he answered in a slow earnest tone dude it was so cold I would have poured gasoline all over myself and lit a match just so I could have been warm for a few seconds before I burned to death he stepped back without another word and slammed his door for the first time I wondered what I got myself into as legit right there is Row two buds so there's a so not only did that blow my mind you know there's a funny little side story we actually had to edit that so the fire thing we actually created because what he actually he told me that exact thing the so the dialogue is the same but what he told me was about as vulgar as all get-out it would have made the book rated xxx and and it was so mind-blowing because I mean you know the fire thing we tried to come up with what is as impactful as but it does not convey I'll let your imaginations run wild but what he told me and he slammed the door in my face left me so stunned I thought I was like what the hell did I get myself into I mean it was but we could not put it in the movie you know it was so bad I mean I was like my kids can never reach a jack so anyways I mean then you get to but you go through buds and buds is cool and you you write about buds a little bit in here but you don't spend a bunch of time on it because as we know buds is not a huge part of our careers and the SEAL Teams and I'm gonna jump right right ahead to the book here seven years and three South American deployments into my career as a seal I found myself in Fort Knox Kentucky working as a basic warfare instructor with a small group of fellow operators we worked 18-hour days but being 20-something and single once the gear was stowed all we wanted to do was get out on the town and blow off some steam work hard play hard that was our pre 9/11 mantra the 90s teens work hard play hard I always have to explain to people how cool it is being in the teams being an e5 and the teams what were you any five or any sex at this point I was named v e5 and the teams and I was telling the story the other day this when I got to SEAL team one there was AI was a new guy and I was quietly walking through the locker room trying to keep my eyes averted from looking at anyone and I hear this guy go ah yes and I was like oh my god and it was this like barbaric yell from this human being who is one and then I looked at him and he was this monster guy probably six seven six six 280 pounds of tattooed flesh and someone's like what happened and he goes I just made ye5 Master Chief as far as I'm concerned so yeah you know you get to be an e5 in the seal platoon you know you've got if you if you're not looking for a lot of responsibility you won't find it but you won't you know you're a little bit above some of the crap work so it's not a bad place to be and that's where you were doing doing deployment after deployment three deployments to South America and doing the training gig yeah were you at training cell at the team at this time or was it already consolidated no each team had its own individual training still yep I did that too and this is also the time during one of these trips where you met your future wife that's right so you know you know the SEAL Teams are an interesting place because being an all-male unit you know the only time you have an opportunity to meet people ladies is typically in the bars and because we did such a good job you know I tell people the mindset of the early teams really was you know you know Marcinko captured that mindset in his book the real warrior but it's interesting to see post 9-11 how guys and subways are focused on combat you know but for us you know literally we trained hard and then you know you were actually looked down on if you didn't go out and party and burn it down to like 4:00 in the morning and then get an hour asleep and get up and start training in the next day you know which was just stupid you know you weren't operating at optimal efficiency but that was just the way it was that was life and accepted it and drove through so yeah I was fortunate enough one night we went into a crazy huge bar that somebody had scouted out and said hey man this is a target-rich environment and the Phoenix Hill tavern and went in there and yeah beautiful blonde walked in and I was like I need to get to know this young lady you did all right man along along the course of this you apply for the seaman Admiral program which is the same program I did I think you were a couple years behind me and we're going to the book I had applied to the seaman Admiral program something the Navy started to encourage top-performing enlisted to become officers only 50 candidates a year were accepted back then so the competition was fierce I gained a slot in the Navy sent me to college just in time to miss the outbreak of the war I watched the Towers fall I recognized the magnitude of the moment and left school in the days fully aware that our country was heading to war with 3 years of college ahead of me I feared I'd missed my chance to be a part of it a few days later I drove back to my old SEAL team to see my former co and mentor commander Vince Peterson he had stuck his neck out for me more than once and had been instrumental in getting me a shot a slot in the seaman admiral program I told him I wanted to drop out of school so I could get back to a platoon and help with the war effort commander Peterson sat listening quietly as eeks as I explained my desire to come back he was a legend in the SEAL Teams he had been a former Marine before joining the Navy and headed to seal training at the age of 36 he was highly respected both up and down the chain of command in my leadership defense analogy most men fell on one side of the fence or the other while there were those small few who had the unique ability to stand on top and move back and forth for Vince Peterson there was no fence as I sat down with him and asked him to put me back in the platoon he looked me dead in the eye and said red this will not be a short war it's going to go on for years and we're going to need strong warriors and leaders for upcoming battles you need to stay in school then come back and lead Jack I when I read that of course I thought about guess what I was doing when 9/11 happened I was in college as well on the same program that's probably a year or two ahead of you and guess what I did same thing I called the detailer who was a friend of mine who I had worked for and I said hey I don't care about college I'll do online I don't care about any of this send me back to a SEAL team right now please and you know this individual too is as well and I know who this guy is and that he told me the exact same thing he said this war is gonna last a long time yeah of course I didn't believe it and it you know and this is what's interesting I recently saw the guy that I called and I saw him and his wife who I know his wife and she's a great person and I was telling her this telling her this and you know what she said it was so awesome to hear she goes do you know how many calls he got that day so there was zero unique about jocko callin that the seal detailer and saying sir get me back to a team right now every single guy that wasn't in a SEAL team in the teams we everyone's gonna be billet of any kind was called in the detailer and said get back to a team put me in coach yeah and it goes that men tell her you're talking about we we were we were just training and training and training and be like training for a game and training for the Superbowl never get in the play yeah so you you so you actually did a great job in college and you you you were an ROTC too right I was yeah see I got the real scam deal where I just went to college and wasn't wearing a uniform I was like far enough ahead of you that I got the DNA you were in the original program so you got commissioned and went at school as an officer see you get paid officer petty I go to school I got the most ridiculous deal I apologize to the taxpayers yeah and the Navy quickly realized yeah okay yeah we screwed this one up I think it took them two iterations yeah I was in because I think I was in the third iteration third or fourth yeah but no we actually were required to be a part of ROTC so you know every day we were we were up early and we and the Hampton Roads NROTC at that time was the largest ROTC consortium on the East Coast so you had Hampton University you had ODU all Dominion University at Norfolk State and they had at that time probably about I think we were at about 330 Midshipmen and officer candidates and we had a huge contingent of ex enlisted so there was actually was probably six or seven seals in the program there at that time so it was good I had teammates to go through with but yeah man we played all the games and real quickly I realized I said okay you know they want it you've got to step up you know they're gonna put you into these different positions and a lot of the guys that have come there before me we're kind of like no dude we don't want to do anything we don't want to be involved we just want to you know a lot of times typical team guys we want to create our own little circle of of trust and we don't want to let anybody else in the circle and I was like nah man we got to change that mindset you know there's young kids here that we could influence to become future frogmen I said and because there was note that all these communities at the school they had they had you know surface warfare community that had the aviation Club they had the Submariner Club but there was no Special Operations Club and there were young kids who were interested and I said what we need to create this you know we have the experience we can help these kids and then the other thing I said is I said well you know I'm gonna try and step up into leadership positions and I think all the rest of us should do the same and and thankfully you know it worked we all jumped on board and no I was fortunate I did excel in school and I ended up leaving the school as the student battalion commanding officer prior to being commissioned to him I was the regimental commander at Officer Candidate School and that was you know the number one position yeah and I thought man yeah I was talking to my mom and I mentioned - which I shouldn't have done because my mom just doesn't understand I was like well yeah I'm you know I'm the the Reggie because at the last couple weeks of OCS and I she's not close to what's going on now cuz then I could call because you weren't allowed to call so I said well we're doing this and I'm in charge of the thing here it's called the regimental commander and she goes oh what he sir you're the commander and I said um the regimental commander she goes what are you in charge of and I said I am overseeing the cleaning of every toilet that Officer Candidate School and it's going quite well so a spotless spotless you see do you do great job in college and now you go back to the teams after college going back to the book instead of having an advantage I found myself left behind everything had changed and as our platoon went through its training cycle I always felt like I was playing catch-up I made mistakes and exercises that I've never made in the 90s it made me edgy intense feeling the pressure of trying to be a leader and drinking from that training firehose at the same time I got tight and held on even harder which only made things worse in our time off I drowned my frustrations and booze and routinely routinely made an ass of myself none of this was helping my credibility with the men I was supposed to be leading but I didn't see that at the moment it also didn't help that senior chief Pete Kerry and I despised each other almost from our introduction he was a good skilled SEAL and I respected his tactical abilities but I felt his people skills were lacking rough and abrasive at times his leadership style clashed with which set us on a collision course while I privately railed against Kerry I was too blinded by arrogance to see my own flaws I wasn't making a good transition to being an officer I'd been enlisted for so long I identified with my enlisted teammates more as one of them rather than as one of their leaders it put me too far away from the fence the senior chief and the a oh I see are supposed to work closely together to make sure the team functions effectively the Alic and that's assistant officer in charge is also supposed to learn from the Chiefs tactical experience that never happened in our platoon instead I refuse to humble myself and listen to the senior chief as the pre-deployment work up or on I wouldn't can we what we couldn't conceal our dislike for each other the feud spilled out into the open and culminated with a public screaming match in Europe after a tactical exercise with some NATO allies in the weeks that followed my arrival within the team our relationship became the cancer in our locker room by the time we got to Afghanistan we refused to be civilly to each other I had lost touch entirely with what it meant to be a leader during the daily briefs we would openly take shots at each other I talked about this dynamic many times with my superior the platoons officer in charge one day the OIC finally said look you two have to work to this out I'm tired of it we never could or did work things out different platoons structure things in different ways in our platoon senior enlisted members acted as fireteam leaders with Chiefs and some more experienced officers acting as the assault force commanders I had been assigned as neither if I had taken a step back I might have realized that I hadn't given my boss as much confidence in my leadership but I didn't see that I only felt slighted and embittered roughed or yeah but all brought on by myself I mean you know the dynamics obviously created some interesting you know problems but you know as often happens I wasn't taking ownership my own actions and instead was just kind of trying to point fingers externally well you know it's peak Gary's fault that these things are happening when the reality was 80% of it was me you know 80% of it so it's one of the things that I talked to a lot of individuals about I think you see it in Special Operations I know you and I both have spoken to professional sports teams I see it there where young men accelerate quickly and achieved this elite status and then get a little bit of enamored with who they are and their abilities and lose sight of the end state which is to be an effective part of the team to do their job so ruthlessly well it plays this huge part in the team and at the end of the day whether you're in professional sports whether you're the SEAL Teams or them whether you're in some elite business you know that's what has to happen and I lost sight of that and more focused externally instead of internally and really now I speak a lot on what my three rules of leadership is and the foundational the first rule is lead yourself and how you lead yourself 80% of leadership is leading yourself you know you talk so much about discipline it's how you discipline yourself it's how you structure yourself it's how you push yourself it's how you set the example and in doing so it automatically leads to rule number to lead others it almost makes it easy to lead others because you've already done all the work they want to follow you because you're setting the example I kind of had it backwards I was trying to lead others but I wasn't leading myself and it's almost impossible to do and I meet all these people you know that I've gone out in business and talked to him they say Jay man how do I be a better leader and you know my first question I always ask them is how well do you lead yourself because that's where I really really failed we talk you know in the several times you've mentioned a principle I talk about called the leadership fence and the leadership fence was just kind of a concept that came up with after watching a lot of really good leaders and and bad leaders including myself in that category you know years later I looked back and the idea was this that imagine a chain-link fence and and that fence represents where you are in your leadership journey and on one side of the fence are all those you lead and on the other side are those you report to your superiors everybody has a natural tendency to kind of fall on one side of the fence or the other depending on how they grew up or how they came into the organization for me obviously when you start out as an e-1 I connected a lot more with the guys on the side of the fence and I was leaning as a matter of fact the team's back then typically wanted to switch coasts with guys if you're an analyst guy they won't send you out to the opposite coasts and that didn't happen for me and I tell you what I look back on that now and I think that was a mistake I you know I created a lot of my own problems and the SEAL Teams were right in their thinking on how to do that because now the hardest leadership often is pure leadership you know to break through those bonds up hey you and I were both friends but now I'm in charge of you so how do we navigate that waters and if you're close with those people it makes it a lot more difficult you know you have to be the one that really has to break those bonds and sometimes you know it can damage friendships if you're not careful with that and I think I was more focused on retaining that so that was on one side of the fence the other side of the fence a lot of times you see individuals that come into an organization later at a higher leadership position so they get brought in as an officer they get brought in as a leader to a company and they're most more focused on that leadership position that they don't take the time to get to know the people they're leading so they're too far away from the fence it's a chain-link fence so that you can talk through it so that you can communicate through it and the best leaders have the ability to be right up against that fence so whether they're on either side they're able to turn around and gain guidance from the individuals whether it's their leadership and communicate it through to the they lead or whether they're on the side of communicating and interacting with those they lead and communicating through and getting guidance from who they follow problems arise when you're too far away from the fence you know the leaders who are so far on the other side of the fence at all they're thinking about is how do I make the next rank you know we know who they are I mean we've seen those guys who literally you know you think men you would like kill your mother to make the next rank to be this or be that and then we also know those guys who you know they have no aspirations to try and get better on the other side of the fence and we you know we joke about the career e5 so you know they're perfectly content you know the magic position and the SEAL Teams where you know you're at that level where you're high enough above to not do the grunt work but you don't really have tremendous responsibilities I was way too far away no is the bottom line and this is where I was tremendously failing and not setting the example I wasn't communicating with with the leadership I was they were trying to provide me guidance and basically saying hey dude you're screwing things up and even even Pete Kerry himself was trying to convey to me in his very abrasive way hey dude you know this is not the way you do things but I was blinded both by having excelled at this point in my career really rocketing up and thinking oh I know these things you know I'm the man so humility is such a critical component of leadership to take that step back and if anybody's giving you advice always take a second to think through it and and you know evaluate hey even if maybe you don't think it applies there's probably pieces of it that do that's the reality yeah I was with someone's giving me critique points you know and of course and it's every single I say every single person on earth doesn't like receiving critique like and I always joke about the fact that even when someone asks for criticism when they get it they still get mad even when I say hey Jay would you you know take read this thing that I just wrote and tell me what you think of it and then you read and you say you know I thought it was a little you could do a little bit better I'm gonna be mad right everyone gets mad and so that's so what I do is the same thing I take a step back when somebody gives me a critique point even though I'm completely offended and I don't agree with them and I think I'm right because I'm gonna give testicle maniac I put all that aside and I say wait a second there's a reason that they're telling me this there's got to be some truth to it I like I'm one of my favorite things about this book is the fact that it it reveals the the the difficulties that we have in the SEAL Teams which are the same difficulties that I see all the time so people think oh and you're in the SEAL Teams everyone's just perfect and you know this this pee carry would be the perfect mentor and he'd just be able to come along and and then you'd be the perfect recipient the perfect mentee ready to learn and everything is just perfect and and it's actually completely untrue and what you have in the SEAL Teams actually in the in like in the civilian sector and companies and organizations they have these personality you know different personalities in the SEAL Teams and so you think own the SEAL Teams you don't have that no you actually have it worse because you've got these guys that have that have really built their egos been built up and we all think we're great we all think we're a tactical genius we all think we don't have anything to learn and so so we have a lot of issues around this exact kind of thing and it does completely derail not just leaders but it derails platoons and I I mean we would disband platoons and when we would disband a platoon that means the platoon is no longer going to exist we'd have a platoon coming through training level to get disbanded it doesn't happen very often but it happens yeah and when it happens it hasn't has zero to do with the ephors ePHI vests and usually the e6 is and it has 100% to do with the seniority six is the Chiefs and the officers inside the platoon that just are disasters and it does happen and I think the fact that you the the fact that you talk through some of these issues are I mean that's what that's what you're very revealing about the SEAL Teams in this book is like hey we got you know we got the same issues that they haven't other or any other team any other organization and that that you know that thing that you talked about this this fence you know that's to me that's the dichotomy leadership right that's like you can go too far in one direction or the other and if you go too far in one direction the other you're gonna you're gonna fall apart yep so check all right now you're on deployment in Afghanistan and I always I always mention this I haven't mentioned it yet but I'll mention it right now because I'm only reading small portions of this book and there's so much more great detail in the book and you'll have a better understanding of these lessons when you when you read the whole thing so if it seems a little bit you know if it seems it's jumping around a little bit it's just because I'm only reading chunks because I'm not gonna read the whole damn book you can read it yourself alright so now speaking of jumping around you're in Afghanistan you had a mission go down where it sounded like you guys got some bad Intel and it caused a little bit of a problem you hit the target pretty hard and you guys got put on an operational pause meaning hey you guys aren't gonna do anything and and that's a great story and how that unfolds is great and people should read so they can learn lessons from that but then I'm gonna go skip a lesson here you are in the chow hall and you're sitting with some of your boys and I'm specifically losing using that term because at this point you definitely were boys with the boys and I'm going to the book I'd been searching for a way to prove myself ever since I'd come aboard now the opportunity to do so had just fallen in my lap I had to take it in time I learned there is nothing more dangerous on the battlefield than an immature and arrogant officer who feels he needs to prove himself it can lead men to their death and what you're looking at is you happen to be sitting in the chow hall with the commanding general and these guys kind of your your boys kind of egg you on to go talk to him but hey why are we why are we standing down and you're an ensign at this point okay so here we go I walked over and stood beside the generals table excuse me general ensign Redmond Naval Special Warfare do you have a couple minutes his aides glowered up at me stamped on their faces is who the hell are you look that made me momentarily waiver the general invited me to sit down his aides looked frosted and grew more so after I began to talk sir I just wanted to talk to you about this operational pause we still seem to be in I began the generals face registering nothing but interest I continued I know there was a miscommunication with our first mission but we know the enemy is out there and we'd really like to take the opportunity to go after them the general heard me out then replied diplomatically well ensign I've got to look at all the strategic factors here we must always weigh the strategic impact with the impact on the civilian populace and there are implications to going out and operating at night I understand that sir right now we're at a crazy time in the war and we have to balance what we were doing well general I said I can hardly read that with a straight face well general I said we really feel like we can contribute in a positive way to by going after the men who posed a clear and present threat to coalition forces when generals non-committal but remained polite I don't think his aides took their eyes off me through the entire conversation I could feel them boring holes through me I thanked them for their time got up and headed back to my table the other two operators were gone why hadn't they stuck around get some yeah beware of peer pressure and beware you know once again it comes back to that that lead yourself you know lead yourself that founding principle because you know this was a dangerous thing and and and I did this several times during that deployment you know this this misunderstanding or this idea that somehow there's this shortcut to being an effective leader that there's this push button easy button that beep look at me now I'm a great leader and this really was this moment and people understand this was an interesting time so this was this was July of 2005 so June 28th the 2005 Operation Red Wings had just happened and that was our troop so we had lost you know we had lost five of our guys including our troop commander we had lost my Eric Christensen we had lost my good friend in the OIC in a platoon Mike mcgrevey I originally was in Echo platoon we had trained alongside those guys so we were all grieving and we all wanted revenge we all wanted to go after the enemy so the very first mission we did was the mission you talked about that got us in a little bit of trouble so now take the dynamics of everybody grieving because of the loss of our teammates and and then doing our first mission and being put in hack because of really some outstanding issues that you can read about in the book we had actually done everything right but it kind of got placed back on us so I just you know it's these moments that as a young leader whether you're in a business whether you're in the military law enforcement whatever you do that you see this shortcut oh look what I can do and it got fueled when you know my teammates and I sat there and started talking and you know teammates were the biggest you know shit talkers on the planet and they they definitely were egging me on and I ate it up hook line and sinker and I was like you are absolutely right here is a great opportunity for me to you know shed some you know amazing wisdom and insight to this general where he now is going to be like Oh young ensign you're so right we should absolutely allow you guys to go out and conduct all these operations because I'm you know I'm not smart enough to allow this to happen I mean they're the arrogance that I had and really sad that I didn't think through you know what are the implications of this you know for you to go do that I mean it was just a stupid decision and I realized it as soon as those guys were gone like all the sudden I'm like what did you just do moron and as I walk back from the chow hall to to our you know our camp I was like this isn't going to go you wouldn't told your boss that you did it I did I went straight back to my CEO and I said hey I want to let you know what just happened I said I thought it was a good idea and I don't think it was and you know it was funny he kind of looked at me and he said why why did you think that was a good idea and and I said well I was you know I was doing it for the boys it's about the boys and you know so he really was at the end of the day it was about me and that's where you know really understanding that you know in leadership you are the last point in the equation and don't get me wrong you know there's an overlap of everything that happens that we do so oftentimes you're focused on the mission you're focused on the man and of course by doing that well there is a positive impact for you and there's nothing wrong with that but that thought process it should be it should be by sequence if you will not because you're focused on it ya know a hundred percent and you're right the byproduct of focusing on your people and focusing on your mission the byproduct of that is you'll be successful and the contrary the the contrary in situation is literally if you focus on yourself instead of your people and your mission you will fail you will you and you know what fails a strong word because there's people and you and I know him who have focused on themselves and they they they can win this battle and they can win this tactical battle they go in this tactical battle and they can get to a certain point but eventually it will come back on them and you won't be as truly successful as if you would as you would have been had you focused on the men the mission and not focused on yourself I call those people leadership wrecking balls there's good they're good at what they do you know in some ways Pete Carey is one of those people he was very good at what he did and he got things done but he had a tendency to leave and a lot of organizations have these individuals and they keep them around because they do get things done but they leave a path of destruction behind them and over time people don't want to work with them and you know that's why I call them the leadership wrecking ball so you know I tell people you need to evaluate yourself are you one of those people do you turn around you know forward you look at the successes you have but you turn around and look and there's a path a destruction going away there no doubt about it all right so you guys eventually do get back in the game you the the pause operational pause gets lifted and you guys are operating again and here you are out on an operation you're in an overwatch position on a hilltop going back to the book between bursts of gunfire I heard and rapport troops and contact troops in contact we're facing at least 20 enemy fighters a wash of Static followed then I heard joker add one of our afghan soldiers is wounded we need reinforcements Jay here's your chance your teammates are in trouble I looked down into the valley a thousand feet below the slope was steep perhaps 60 degrees in places getting down there would be a serious climb once at the bottom we'd have to maneuver to the sound of the guns through broken terrain and vegetation that would complicate approaching our guys without getting shot by accident I called to Fred and asked if the Western overwatch team was still in place gunfire erupted over the radio as he keyed his mic and answered I think so okay good that gave us eyes above and control over the high ground over there this is the moment Jay go prove yourself as we dropped off the lip senior chief Carrie called to me over the radio and wanted to know what I was doing we're going down I told him he went ballistic absolutely not we need to link back up fall back the boys needed help and we were closest if it had been anybody else I might have thought twice about his call but my own personal quest to prove myself coupled with my intense hatred for him clouded my judgment I ignored him and we pressed on as we dropped further into the valley we lost all communication with the headquarters team I began to realize what a hairy situation I had just placed the two of us in we had given up the high ground to move down a thousand feet of vertical terrain to try and link up with an element under fire with an enemy force almost one kilometer away I pushed this thought to the back of my mind the boys need help focus on that but where was the fight the sounds of battle echoed all across the valley making it difficult to calculate distance and direction a broken transmission filled my earpiece I couldn't tell what it was but I recognized JD's voice I tried to establish contact a moment later through washes of static JD's voice came back where the hell are you JD demanded I told him we were at the T intersection on the valley floor get your ass out of the valley now he said with so much anger I could almost feel a blast of fire shoot out of the earpiece I was about to explain my intent when he added those guys are in a major fight and we can't call in close air support because we don't know where you are that shook me there were aircraft overhead waiting to join the battle with rockets and bombs yet they could not make their runs because of my decision to go into the valley I should have thought about our air assets but I was too blinded by a my own ambition with my combat experience on full display it started to dawn on me at last had I made a mistake what if somebody got hit during the delay I'd caused I keep my radio and reported that we would be pulling out of the valley and climbing up the North Face of the t-intersection to link up with our element there once we were consolidated on the North Ridge and our security was set for what would surely be along that ahead JT came looking for me as he approached I could see he was livid what the hell were you doing indignant Lee I told him I was trying to go to the aid of my brothers he looked at me like I just spit on his wife that was a stupid thing you did read you could have gotten people killed his words made me even more righteously indignant I fired back at him the boys were in trouble and I went to their aid I did want to needed to be done in the moment Jadey refused to accept that I tossed out a similar situation that occurred in Afghanistan a few years before as if establish establishing precedence would help my case JD knew of the mission - and he cut me off with not the same at all red they didn't have air support available I didn't know I know we did I shouted back you delayed it with what you did JD roared at last when it was clear to JD that his words were not sinking in he ended the argument curtly he said we'll deal this when we after when we get back to Kandahar he turned and stalked off I watched him leave and struggled with my own thoughts had I really made that big of a mistake no no way I went to help when is that ever wrong bro that's rough you know a lot of people read that section who don't have tactical background and they don't fully understand they're like oh man no you did the heroic thing you know you went down into the battle you know you tried to take the fight to the enemy but you know I try to explain to them you know you don't have a tactical understanding you know there are so many things that were done wrong there that it literally and this story would be so different if something that actually happened and the potential for something to have gone wrong is through the roof I mean you've been in Afghanistan I mean you know the fighting positions and basically I took myself off a very advantageous high ground position that we owned down into the valley a thousand feet below I mean there could have been hundreds of fighting positions and caves above me that any one single fighter could have just decimated us and you know would have been one thing if I got myself killed but I pulled a young team guy machine gunner down with me so I placed this guy's life in jeopardy and you know I the the funny thing is you know I tried to paint it in that moment arguing with JD that I was doing the right thing I'm taking the fight to the enemy I'm you know supporting my brothers and all this BS you know the reality was I wanted to get in the fight at that point I had been on the edge of a lot of firefights and and you know and even in fighting I mean until you get in there you haven't proved yourself and I wanted to prove myself I wanted to prove myself both as a seal as a fighter and as a leader and this was another moment just like the general where I thought here's my opportunity and and I was so unwilling to listen you know that I had made a mistake and the reality is if I had to owned it in that moment it probably would not have been as bad as it was but the mere fact that I just planted my flag on that spot and was like screw you you're wrong I'm and I did the right thing I think just turned what was a fire into a raging inferno yeah yeah no that's that's definitely rough and I think also from from a tactical perspective people make mistakes like this like it can happen and it can happen and and you know I talked about being able to detach and that's something that I definitely learned in the SEAL Teams and it was I think one of the most advantageous skills for a leader especially a combat leader to have is to be able to to step back from the situation as its unfolding because if you fully knew hey we've got air overhead and they're in a firefight and if I go down there we won't be able to use air support you wouldn't have done this even even a 60 gunner you know even a pig gunner would say okay no I need to I need to let that that unfold but you know you're exciting to get down there and and get in the fight is definitely you know that's something that that can grab a hold of anyone if they're not careful and and again it's what we just talked about with you at that moment put yourself ahead of the mission ahead of the team and and then yeah I mean this idea of ownership and and you know when I when I kick off the book that I wrote with life extreme ownership you know kicks off with a blue on blue and you know is it was a lot of bad things happening there was a lot of moving parts going on it was a horrible situation an Iraqi soldier got killed several more got wounded one of my guys got wounded and I can tell you right now like I think if I would have said hey this wasn't my fault blame it on someone else I think I would have gotten fired about in about three seconds because it's just it's a bad situation to unfold and yeah you planting the flag on that is is rough and and III mean your humility and putting this out there is awesome and people can learn so much from that because if you recognize how easily you and you okay let's let's let's let's paint you in a bad light that you were young and you were but let's paint you in a good light even with you had those qualities of being hyper aggressive and you want to get in the fight and you're a little bit arrogant you're still a team guy that's trying to do a good job it wasn't like we were trying to do a bad job so to recognize like hey even if you're well-intentioned if you don't pay attention to these things they can grab hold of you and they can pull you in the wrong direction and and you look up and and you're you're you're planting your flag and and putting up your defenses around an indefensible position which is where you ended up here and and you nailed it with the idea you know it's something I know you talk to people about a business I talk about I think it's no different probably I'm fighting you know you've got to let the battlefield develop sometimes we have this natural instinct that when something bad happens when a crisis happens we feel this you know oh my god I got to react immediately before we actually take the time and even in a gunfight you typically have a few seconds and it's amazing how much information we can process in a few seconds before we react and move and so that was one problem and the other problem and you know was I was driven by this relationship issue and it's funny you know the individual the retired Master Chief that you were with on you know Thursday who was I served under him twice later we had talked about that exact situation and he had given me advice later and he said never let your personal feelings get in the way of your professional relationships and I had I'd absolutely let my personal feelings drive that and that was probably the biggest fu moment you know like I said if it had been anybody else but my hatred for him had grown to the point that I was just like yeah let me show you buddy you know and so all these things you know dangerous you know that not only did you know all these things you have to be careful of it I mean this is what falls under you know a lot of people call these different things and my Pentagon a peak performance I call it emotional leadership so your ability to attach yourself for a second and say okay I'm not gonna let my own personal feelings drive this because what's going on around me my ability to lead and make the right decisions is more critical than what I feel and obviously you know I have not learned those lessons yet I was on that on that glide path and at this point I was on the glide path down I was crashing and Bertie ruff-ruff going back to the book back at Kandahar I heard the first whispers about me floating around the team the men had nicknamed me Rambo red though some may think being compared to Stallone's lone-wolf silver screen icon was a compliment within our community it was a supreme insult in the SEAL Teams there's no room for individualism foundations of our success rest on mutual cooperation and communication a lone wolf like Rambo could destroy a team with catastrophic effects on the battlefield after we debrief the mission JD Richardson took me into his makeshift office and said read your operational abilities have been called into question we're sending you back to Bagram to meet with the SEAL and we'll discuss this further when the rest of the team gets back I was stunned at worst I was starting to expect something more than a wrist slap but nothing like that I was being sent back to the rear out of combat nothing can ever be more humiliating for a warrior I trained my entire adult life for this and now I had been told I didn't measure up I felt like a mule kick to the gut I heard rumblings that senior chief Kerry wanted to see my Trident taken away behind the scenes he was pushing for a Trident Review Board to determine my fate the months of infighting between us had been bad enough now he was trying to destroy my career I was sick at the thought of losing my Trident over a single bad moment in the valley whose name nobody back home would ever know and whose location would not matter to anyone but a handful of men who had fought in it ensign Redmond had to Semin strated a consistent pattern of bad decision-making I thought again about my screaming match with senior chief Carrie during the NATO exercise when it ended what did I see in the eyes of him what did I see in the eyes of my teammates embarrassment this wasn't really about one moment in the valley was it Jay I had to face that fact I rubbed my inking temples I felt like my head was going to explode from the pressure building inside of it my life was being destroyed and I had made myself vulnerable to these attacks with my own actions if I was allowed to continue to operate stories of this deployment would circulate through the teams if I go to my next platoon with my reputation in tatters who would follow my lead sitting neatly on the wooden crossbar on the floor beside my bed my holstered sig sauer p226 sat well oiled and cleaned I leaned over and pulled it out I knew around was already in the chamber but I drew back the slide and took a look to make sure we called a suppressed check and it confirmed what I already knew my gun was ready to go as I held the pistol I thought of the great samurai warriors who if disgraced would commit ritual suicide part of me will my hand to raise the sig to press it firmly to my temple my life is over there's nothing left but an honorable exit I glanced over at the desk and saw a picture of my beautiful wife Erica the image of her face riveted my attention her easygoing smile her eyes alight and lively always quick to laugh and offer love and compassion what would this do to her after all she'd sacrificed for me would my death snuff out the life of her gorgeous eyes with the bullet I put in my temple I'd leave her the burden of my failed career and a ticket to a lifetime of grief the kids would live under that cloud as well you know it's interesting a lot of people who have not read my book or maybe they have read it and they gloss over this but they will wrongly assume that my injuries and that ambush in the aftermath of that ambush were the hardest thing I've ever been through and and I tell him absolutely not by far that that moment right there in that period of time in my life about a that was about a four month period maybe five months that that journey to the bottom and I was almost at rock-bottom at that point and this is where the psychology of humans is an interesting thing because all of us have that little voice that lives inside of us I call mine my demon and my demon has been my greatest pusher because he tells me what I can't do and he also at times can be the most dangerous thing out there because they will push you to do things are wrong they will push you to do things and tell you you can't do things and it was in that moment that I literally was listening to that that you know you will never recover you you know your career is over there's no way you're gonna come back from this the guys are never gonna follow you again all these lies these are lies that we tell ourselves and I think it's really important you know if there's anything about me I tell people that I am I am an expert on overcoming adversity failure in crisis and it doesn't matter how bad things have been you always can recover it goes back to those three rules of leadership you just once again go back to leading yourself and in that moment though I was so crushed so crushed because I had convinced myself that I had done the right thing and and unfortunately I still believed that nice just saw myself as a victim a victim who had no way that I can recover and you know it's sad and and you know you know that God moment that I glanced over cuz I don't think if if I had made the mistake or wherever I was I'm not having pictures and my wife and kids right there I probably would have done it cuz I just felt so hopeless and then I was ashamed honestly for thinking that and thinking about the impact I would leave on them so I'd love to say that was the catalyst of starting to climb out of that hole but I actually continued to spiral down over the next couple of months until finally you know my nor you know that moment occurred right after you know my judgment had been set upon me which really I was very fortunate because I should have been grateful because really what they could have done is said you're out of here yeah you know we're sending you out of the teams you're gonna go before try to review board and they didn't you know the CEO believed in me he said you know you've done a lot of great things you've had some amazing moments you've just you've got some flaws you've got some arrogant flaws and you definitely we need to work on your decision-making leadership abilities so that's what they did it's it's you know when I was reading this part be it's it's gonna be it's it's I don't really I don't think you could have I don't think a human being I don't think you could explain I don't think Will Shakespeare could explain to someone that's not in the team's what it feels like to be in the teams and to feel like maybe that's not gonna be your life anymore that's rough man and I don't think he I mean you did your best and like I said I don't think it's just to to explain and I mean I guess you do it because you explain listen you were at a point where if you couldn't be in the team's you didn't want to be alive that's where you were at right there and I guess that does explain it I think it might be hard for people to relate to but like for people like you and me that grew up literally whole adult life in the SEAL Teams I can't even imagine if at the in the in the in the highlight of that moment of being deployed in combat you just lost your comrades and arms from your task unit and to be told okay you can't do this job anymore I mean like you said and again I think it's gonna be hard for people to understand that it seems like you you would never want to you wouldn't want to live at all and then just to add this on to what you're saying and I say this every time that I talk about these kind of personal storms that people get into and I've just got to say this in case someone hasn't heard me say it before when you're in that storm it seems like it's goes forever in every direction anyone on the outside would anyone 10 feet away from you would look at you and say oh yeah you're you made some mistakes you need to you need to get back on the horse you need to get back out there here's what's gonna help you get fixed there's will get you back up but when we reach every direction you look is black and you think you're not getting out and team guys don't play around either at all going back to the book I you so you decide okay I'm gonna I'm gonna stick it out you're on your way back I've made my way back to my hooch when I entered our living quarters I walked by our message board and saw a note scrawled next to my name why don't you go ahead and kill yourself I stared at the words for I don't know how long the hallway was empty nobody had been standing around waiting to see my reaction that's team guys there's no mercy in the seal platoon there's not you know I've often thought about that and and you know the deal we have incredibly dark humor so I often wonder was somebody just trying to lighten the mood and kind of shock me into hey dude come out of it you know go fix yourself I've always I've often wondered that or were they serious and just like dude you're a disgrace yeah we don't and and I know for a fact I mean there was a point right before we left on that deployment a couple weeks later where you know guys were being divvied up into where there going next so neckla tune its next leadership and they were asked you know who who do you want to work with you know who do you want to work under and and they unequivocally wrote we don't want to work with red so this was an additional blow that really kind of reinforced him in you you you got some you got some work to do except I'll be honest I wasn't at that point yeah you weren't there yeah I was still at rock bottom you know you talked about the storms I talked about life ambushes and this was a major life ambush one of the first major life ambushes I'd ever encountered and I literally was on the acts taking withering fire and I couldn't figure out how to get out of it and you were doing your best to return fire with your pistol in this case I was gonna return one round thinking that was gonna fix things I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm right yeah I'm gonna maintain this position right here and I'm gonna win no actually you're not you need to you need to look around you need to maneuver so you do end up keeping your Trident because obviously there were some guys that that believed in like you said believed in you and saw that you had the potential and actually sometimes people ask me what makes a guy get fired or not get fired and for me it's like almost 100 percent if the guy lacks humility they're gonna get fired or if they if they if no one if I would see a guy that had no humility whatsoever and I didn't see a crack it'd be like okay this guy's a lost cause he's never gonna listen anyone you can't coach someone that's lacks humility completely so or you can't help them maybe they're gonna sit and on the X and just get shot up that's the way it's gonna be so somebody saw that hey we can get through to this guy you know he's a good team guy and more importantly to that point and this is a great leadership point an organizational point not only are they gonna sit there and take those hits because they're too arrogant to be willing to move they're gonna pull everybody else down with them and that's where it gets really dangerous I mean especially in our community where lives are on the line I mean if they're unwilling to learn or humble themselves enough they're gonna get somebody else killed and that was the big concern at that point and man I've got to give kudos to my commanding officer who is a friend of this day he saved my career because I was an exhibiting humility though I was fighting back I was I did the right thing I'm the victim here you know I'm just being thrown under the bus and thankfully he had enough faith in me I guess he had seen enough good that he said I think we can fix him you know good man and one of the things that they do to fix you in the SEAL Teams is send you to Ranger School a wonderful vacation for back and I would say there's a small there's some people that go to Ranger school cuz they want to go to Ranger School right on but oftentimes in the SEAL Teams Ranger School and I wouldn't even call it punishment but it's it's like a reeducation and that's definitely something that has always been and that's what they do with you okay they're gonna they're gonna send you to a really tough training school where it's not just a tough training school where you get weeded out you learn some tactics you learn to you learn leadership and I did not go to Ranger school but you know it's a great school everyone I know that the Rangers that I know are awesome guys so great school but often times we use it in the SEAL Teams maybe punishment is the wrong word in some cases I know it's been punishment occasionally a guy I'll want to go there but generally guys I mean generally guys are working so I'm not gonna go to Ranger School you end up getting the Ranger school and here we go sick hungry burning with resentment because as you said you're not you at this point you're still like all this is this this is crap I don't deserve this yeah I was bit to say I was bitter is an understatement yeah burning with resentment I went into the first few days with without my heart or mind engaged the first week of Ranger School is nothing but a gut-check long days of minimal sleep exposure the elements and constant physical and mental evolutions to get those who don't want to be there to quit teamwork leadership within a circle of peers and decision making under stressful conditions were the objective of this first phase as a seal should have represented my community in the best possible manner while by displaying leadership a commitment to teamwork and a willingness to overcome obstacles instead my actions showed me to be arrogant ill-tempered and unwilling to work with others many soldiers falsely believed that seals are like that and my actions we simply reinforced it I failed to represent my community as anything but that stereotype so you have this bad attitude you go out on a compass course you're pretty good at land nav you think you're gonna kick ass you don't kick ass you do a bad job the black hats who are the Ranger instructors here we go the black hats chuckled with laughter damn squid got lost we should have given you a boat swabby another growled not surprising seals don't know how to navigate anyways I failed it's something I once took great pride in not so good without your Gucci gear are you another sneered I lost it all my pent-up fury frothed out of me screw this course and screw you kiss my ass I walked up to my company instructor and told him I'm out of here I quit are you sure you want to do that without thinking I said yes I was reading this book and I was like Dave I was damned I mean holy shit yeah talk about a total breakdown of emotional leadership I mean that's the reality iodide and and here's the problem with that I had allowed this to happen by not managing myself I had allowed this I was like a pressure cooker waiting to pop off and instead of managing it and recognizing and come to grips with it I I didn't and it it just manifested itself in that moment where I failed the land nav course because of my own arrogance and then you know I allowed those Ranger instructors to get under my skin in that failure instead of immediately saying well hey no big deal I could have gone back and done it again like three days later cos er I wasn't the only guy that failed there were other guys that failed but instead of that I instantly just it was one additional below that I had sustained and being at this tipping point you know I allowed them to get under my skin and snapped and it is the only thing I have ever quit in my life that I have verbally quit I mean for all intents and purposes I rang the bell in that moment and so angry and frustrated and listened to that demon that said your career is over you will never recover from this you know this is the final straw you know you had an opportunity and you missed it man so you know nobody's never gonna follow you again yeah and everyone screwed you over and put you in this point absolutely that's why you know victim victim victim mentality now this is a miracle this is a miracle this niggas god moment you know I don't understand this this is a miracle the colonel in charge of Ranger School happens to be friends with Vince Peterson who we talked about earlier and that's not his real name but he's a legendary seal officer and a prior Vietnam Marine battle away City by the way just a just an awesome guy and for whatever reason miracle the Colonel that's in charge of Ranger School is friends with with captain Peterson and here we go going back to the book you're sitting there talking to the colonel Vince Peterson was the greatest natural leader I'd ever known he had a knack of expressing where the team needed to go with just a few words he'd plant seeds like his men taking ownership of the plan then watched as everything went forward with the plans when the plan succeeded and it almost always did he never took the credit he gave it to everyone else in retrospect I'm not proud that all I could manage was the fable and this goes back to something you talked about earlier in the book but at this point I was still unable to face the truth myself let alone admit it to the leader I respected above all others and so here you go your conversation with Captain Vince Peterson read do you really think Ranger School is punishment it is sir read have you ever thought that maybe there is an opportunity here sir you have a chance to learn something of value if you're willing to take it I didn't know what to say to that I had not been trying to learn anything since Afghanistan I've been trying to defend and justify you're getting ready to throw your career away read I'm not sure I have a career left sir read he said firmly what are you gonna do if you get out if you come back you'll be out of the Navy in a month how are you going to support your family he let that sink in I had no answer in stayed silent besides do you really want to go through your life having ended your career this way you can recover you control your destiny and your future you can earn back the respect of the guys if you give them something to respect if your actions demand respect I hadn't looked at it my situation from that angle read get back in that course finish it then come back with your head held high and show that you have the ability to lead that'll leave a mark yeah well and you know for people to understand I I didn't sleep a wink that night after I after I quit and I was so ashamed of what I had done and I was so convinced that there was no way I could undo it that I literally was just resigned to the fact that my career was over right and when I went into that office I first spoke to the sergeant major and the sergeant major asked if I wanted to speak to anybody in the SEAL Teams hell no man I don't want to talk to anybody you know I am a failure I am you know broken and and then it was the colonel who asked me and I said the same thing so the mere fact and this is he didn't even offer he just started dialing so that and the mere fact you talk about this bait moment that that Vince Peterson will happen to be at his phone an answer right then and and then saying being on the phone and him to hand it to me and there was no way in hell I mean I had such respect for this this man there was no way I could say no and you know that conversation you know this is this is the highest levels of leadership to be able to quickly analyze a situation especially when you're working with people to understand you know okay this is where we're at this is the battlefield I'm looking at this is what I have to work with and this is what I need to do to move this person to where we're going to motivate and inspire them and I mean he did it flawlessly you know exactly what to tell me he told me both the good and the bad he gave me hope and he told me what happens if you don't which would be hopeless you know I will have you out of the military in less than a month and then you know I tell people that is the most succinct and powerful leadership advice I've ever been given you know people will follow you if you give them a reason to if you give them something to respect and that really is the foundation of you know the three rules of leadership I talked about lead yourself that's 80% of it you know leading others comes naturally and he was right because I left that office and the the funny thing about it though is I got off the phone and I asked the colonel I said sir would you put me back in class and he didn't miss a beat no he said instead you will go to the holding company and we will class you up with a new class a month later which is just what you needed you get rolled back for 30 days going back to the book I bent down and picked up the cigarette but lying in the grass at my feet with a flick the bus spun to the garbage bag I'd been dragging across post with me so here you are a combat seal officer picking up cigarette butts 13 years and 13 years in as I filled my bag with litter the bit bitterness flared again I've put 13 in I've put in 13 and a half years I was a member of one of the most elite Special Operations units in modern history millions of dollars were spent preparing me training me outfitting me to handle the toughest battlefield tasks our nation can face and my own brothers have reduced me to this I stop and thought about that statement where was the personal responsibility in it Vince Peterson's word came back to me you have an opportunity to learn here if you're willing to take it I served with good men whom I respected they turned their back on me or did they what did all this say about me a door suddenly opened in my mind the place it led to was a dark room that I had never entered inside I could see the truth about myself through the facade of lies I had built I stood at its threshold not really wanting to walk through sunsoo once said if you know your enemies and you know yourself you will never be defeated I didn't know myself I was running blindly through life refusing to even acknowledge my weaknesses I have been an arrogant ass most of my career clearly I needed to come down to earth maybe trash detail did serve a purpose after all I guess I needed to mentally flatline before I could reconstruct my self for leadership I found another cigarette butt inflicted into my back the bitterness over being forced into this sort of work evaporated far from a humiliating burden it was giving me clarity I surely needed for years my attitude had hobbled relationships and endangered my career I suddenly recalled a moment years before I had worked my tail off for months on a special project when I finished it I knew I was gonna receive a significant award for the effort for whatever reason it got downgraded to a lesser award what did you do after you found out I've thrown a temper tantrum I went off on one of our admin guys who had congratulated me after I received it instead of being grateful receiving any sort of acknowledgment I'd thrown the awarded him I might as well have thrown it in the face of captain Peterson who was my CEO at the time that incident stuck with my peers who witnessed it and four years after when I ran into one of them they'd remind me of it Jason Redman Navy Achievement Medal thrower Vanguard of leadership I can't say I looked forward to picking up trash the next morning but I didn't start the day despising what would come next I was ashamed that I had thought so highly of myself that I saw myself as above picking up trash I realized that as a seal leader it was my responsibility to accept the example with everything I undertook there you go there you go it was you know so this is probably the point and I talked to a lot of people about this like I I wish I could say that after I hung up the phone with Captain Peterson that I went back and was like you know yeah let's go let's do this you know let's crush this and instead I still was kind of finishing I was on that slope down to crash that plane and I finally crashed that plane and hit really the bottom of the barrel and and it was at that point that I really started to analyze myself this someone I talked to a lot of people about you know you truly have to know yourself you cannot because our weaknesses manifested themselves in the hardest times they don't come out in the good times and the good times there's no issues with it and the only way you could manage that you know is to a mental leadership and emotional leadership at the highest level because in the hardest times and usually those are the time so you got to be managing the most is when it comes up and it was by really starting to rip myself apart and look at you know all these things that I had done and understanding oh yeah when I get into these situations I feel that you know that that meltdown with the Ranger instructors you know I felt that coming on I could have stopped it but I didn't I let it go you know they lift the fuse and instead of tamping it you know ow I let it burn and blow up so it was you know really it was these moments and this is probably biggest thing that I can tell anybody out there it is never too late you can always come back so for four months I had convinced myself that I was a victim for months I convinced myself there was no way to do this and for the first time when I finally looked at you know these are your weaknesses but oh by the way man you've got some amazing strengths and you know you need to figure out how to amplify these strengths minimize these weaknesses and and what an opportunity you have you are a seal that's in Ranger school that couldn't crush this course set the example and come back every day is another opportunity you're gonna screw up again and that's okay but you know so for the first time I saw Hope standing at the rock bottom and looking up through this tunnel I saw a glimmer of light well what's what's when you say that what I think about is what people get themselves into they box themselves into this scenario and it's exactly where you had boxed yourself into which was hey look this guy doesn't like me this guy's blaming me for that this these people have a bad attitude and you're in and guess what other people you can't control and so you end up in a hopeless situation because I can't change this guy's attitude he's an asshole he doesn't like me he whatever we had a run in this person they don't trust me and I can't change that and so when you're in a situation where you can't change the situation at all because you don't have control over any of it well then guess what you're hopeless but the minute you look at yourself and you say wait a second I actually control everything that's going on right now everything people's perception of me is based on my behavior not theirs and that's what that's what I liked what up what Peterson said you you control your destiny in your future that's that that to me I highlighted that 98 times you control your destiny in your future and at this point in the book is where you saw and it took you cigarette butts in it took you to that point where you say wait a second all these things that have happened to me I can get control of them and I can turn them in a better direction and yeah that's awesome and the journey began yeah that you can't expand a little bit more here I could not I could not change my decision but I should you're talking about this is what you're talking about you're reflecting now on what happened on your decision to go into the valley in Afghanistan that whole scenario that you got in trouble for here's what you said about it I could not change my decision but I should have owned it in its aftermath I should have listened to those with more experience taking my lumps and moved forward that is how leaders grow I was so desperate to justify and defend my actions I lost sight of what to do of what I was there to do I was there to lead when necessary and to follow and called upon but above all else to accomplish the mission as part of a team instead in the aftermath I made it all about me and the defense of my ego again when you come into the office and you say this wasn't my fault I was doing the right thing everyone that's looking at you is thinking he's he doesn't even see what he did wrong and that's where you know you talk about in this book you talk about the fact that one of the most one of the most horrible things on the battlefield is an arrogant young person that thinks their that's not gonna listen anyone and you when you sit there and put up your defenses you're showing everyone that back to the book yes senior chief Kerry hated me we love each other but the truth he was a damn good operator in a firefight I would have wanted him there as a tactical leader in his own abrasive way he'd attempted to mentor me if I had put down my pride I would have seen it and I would have learned a lot from him that never happened I failed to manage our relationship and it poisoned the entire platoon it also hurt my reputation with my teammates myself deceit finally collapsed Kerry had not done this to me I'd done this all to myself I was being punished less for the decision I'd made and more for the way I'd fiercely refused to take responsibility for it the more I railed against those aligned against me the more I deserve to be punished I wasn't betrayed by my teammates I betrayed them with my selfishness it was time to grow up damn yeah it was exciting because it suddenly Ranger school suddenly became a new opportunity and really I set my sights on you know kind of interestingly enough I think all of us are super goal driven people and for the first time I saw an opportunity and and set a goal you know it's just what I think all of us do so well that you know we have a target to move to and now I have a path to go after it and that that path became I want to graduate the honor man in this course and set it set there you know woke up the next morning firing up the guys around me and hey man we're getting ready to start up again it's gonna be awesome let's go do this so yeah again I'm harping on this a little bit but just the fact that this book is so powerful because to walk through that transition I'll tell you anybody that's read extreme ownership or anyone that listens to this podcast is going to be especially there they're gonna be having even deeper understanding because they I talk about this all the time and to see you go down that path see where it leads and then be able to come back how be and I'll come back out as awesome but but it's so powerful to actually hear from your perspective from someone that was in that exact position and doing those things to hear you saying it and be able to witness the turnaround it's uh it's powerful powerful stuff next morning I hit the ground running and never looked back the company I joined was full of strangers no matter I did everything full-bore made sure I helped but made sure I helped everyone in my squad whenever I could I was going to be but this I was not going to be the disconnected selfish jerk I had been this go-around Court was fully invested and you kick ass and Ranger School you're not honor man because you find out that yeah I only find out at the very end that if you're rolled back you're not eligible yeah well I did really well I was ranked at the top of my pure evals I mean all the instructors gave me a hey man you're you're just crushing it and so no matter it was a goal you know that another great guy earned it and well-deserved you end up back at the back of the teams you go back into a task unit and you're an assistant platoon commander now is yeah again is this a reroll as a is it re reef reload as an assistant platoon commander oh you're still just super junior because you were receiving an animal that no I had just made JG at this point so back then we still you know now they're kind of doing it differently a lot of us seaman Admiral guys did have the ability to do two pumps yeah they made me do two boats yeah yeah they wanted me to do two pumps and this is I mean for those who are not aware there was a little bit of impetus on me because they basically so as officers if you ever get a letter of reprimand on your record it effectively ends your career I mean if it that official letter goes into your record you're done you'll never you won't make the next rank you're going to be out and they basically wrote this letter my outgoing CEO who was in Afghanistan to my incoming CEO who was taken over the team and they basically said you made some mistakes and we questioned your tactical decision making and leadership abilities but we're gonna give you a second chance so this letter and I was you know I was in the office with the CEO and he put it into his safe and basically said this will be burned or shredded at the end of the deployment if you show us you have the ability and if you don't it will go into your pur and they had my officer record right there and they were like it will go right here into your record so and I think they knew the power of that also and it gave me additional momentum and I think this is important in leadership you know in the same way we raise our kids the accountability you can't just tell somebody hey this is what I want you to go out and do we have to let it lay out the right and left limits and tell them this is where you're gonna go and you have to have those things that hold you accountable so I don't know if I necessarily needed that I was pre fired up on on wanting to get back and set the example and redeem myself but I will say on the back of my mind I knew a man you you got a you got a crush yeah that's a that's a I don't know if that's happens in all the military but in the SEAL Teams there's there's a lot of letters that get shredded and part of it is like a cover-your-ass like when I was a commander a part of its cover your ass because hey look you screwed up and if you screw up again and everyone knows that this has happened multiple times and you haven't been counseled about it I look like an idiot and not only do I look like an idiot I am an idiot if I'm not documenting that you screwed something up so I'm gonna document this and make sure that you know I've got it documented but by the way I'm not trying to kill your career if you can turn around and you can get back on the path cool this thing's going in the shredder but here it is got it you got some ways to go before this thing goes in that shredder yep it's a it's pretty common thing in the SEAL Teams not too common but um so you're in a task unit you're a system platoon commander and things are going good and you you were a lot more self-aware and again but you have to read the whole book to get all these details about that transition you were a lot more self-aware and you started off as mobility commander and then eventually you start working with the assault team and here we go back to the book after that first successful mission now on the assault team I had earned a spot in the mix and harmonized with the task units battle rhythm our platoons rotated back and forth between running mobility or running the assault force the pace was intense and the mission started to blend together in a groundhog day sword away I may have lost my way years ago but through God and a willingness to work hard and learn my strengths and weaknesses I had earned my way back into the Brotherhood and you detail some some good missions some pretty hot missions you know you guys gotten some pretty good gunfights and you're getting towards the end of deployment and your tu commander he's he you have a little conversation with him and he says we're gonna have you run his Ground Force commander on the next one for a second what this really meant failed to register really JP and the date at this point in the book JP is a guy he's you're tasking a commander JP nodded yeah I spoke to Erik and Paul and we all agree you're ready for it besides this will help get you up to speed to be a platoon commander at length I finally answered that's awesome thanks for the opportunity you earned it bro he turned to leave I had done it my career is back on track at last I knew some in our community would always hate me for my mistakes but I had earned back the trust of the men I served and fought with since 2004 I've been an officer within our community rank does not automatically make you a leader your character makes you a leader your actions make you a leader rank is almost irrelevant after years of selfish focus on myself I'd finally understood what it meant to lean men lead men of this caliber and what was required of a man in order to be part of this most elite of all fraternities the letter in the safe would be destroyed for an instant the horizon ahead held no boundaries and again I skipped this was not like an easy process man you worked your way right back up you started with small jobs you made some mistakes that you you know that you you talked about the you lay you lased it's a Marine colonel and and he was not happy yeah not happy so quick story you're doing deconfliction and you can't identify and so you escalate the deconfliction to a visible laser and then you know they realized that that both sides were friendlies and it was a Marine Corps colonel that you were lazing and he wasn't too happy about that and when you when when your commander brought you in and said hey what the hell happened you took ownership of it and said hey here's the mistakes I made instead of blaming everyone so big big turning point and and I think this important point you know you you know I mean within our community it's pretty hard to turn around when you've made a major mistake like that I mean no I'm you guys get out we've had guys that have been sent to the fleet as some never come back and then some come back and redeem themselves but in a gang and some just get put into ostracized position of low importance inside the SEAL Teams right and it's like oh cool yep we you're stationed over there yep we know what you're doing and we know all about you and and we get that you still have your Trident and you're still considered a seal but you're not a team guy and we all know that yeah you would not be invited to go back to an operational reveal it you know you're relegated to training and all that you know other things so I mean it really is for people to understand I mean our community is driven by amazingly talented warriors and at the end of the day you know the leader they rely on the guys next to them and their leaders to make those good decisions so if you made bad decisions I mean to be able to come back and them say okay you know you've shown us that we can trust you once again to lead and make the right decision so it really I tell people there's a hardest road I've ever walked I mean when I got wounded I was like I got this yeah the the trust when broken is extremely hard to rebuild and I get asked a lot how do you build trust with people either whether it's been broken or whether you don't know them it and it's very clear in the book and again this is why people should get the book the way that you're tasking the commander and I'm trying to think of the alias because I know him too JP the way that you're tasking the commander is very common to what a guy does he gives you a little bit of responsibility and lets you let you earn a little bit of trust and then once you've heard a little bit of trust it gives you a little bit more responsibility once you've earned a little bit more trust and that continued going this is this is now a six-month deployment plus a year-long workup or whatever so he's been giving you a little bit of trust and you've been earning an urn and earning and earning back your trust and you are digging out of a deficit right that's a lot harder so that is a lot harder when if you show up as a new guy you're like a zero right cuz P and then you're gonna get a little trust and maybe you get to a point too and then you get a little bit more responsibility and you get to a point for you were at like a negative nine and so you had to just you don't earn your way back to get to zero and then once you're at zero then you had to build up and at this point in the book and you did some again I'm sorry I'm not gonna go into everything but you know you had a pretty dynamic potentially horrible situation unfolding big gunfight going on some head counts not accounted for people and you took charge the situation and that probably is what you know jumped you up a bunch of levels in people going okay you know what we can trust this guy and and and then you continued these to build that trust and up to the point where and I need to explain this because I didn't up to the point where the task you to commander said okay one of these necks coming missions we're gonna make you the Ground Force commander and what that means for civilians is that means you're in charge of everything you're gonna go out you're gonna be the this the the main leader the senior leader not even the main they're gonna be the senior leader the guy in charge of everything that's happening on the battlefield that's that what the Ground Force commander is and you're now being it's the end of deployment you're being told look you've any we want you to be the Ground Force commander on one of these upcoming operations and that is the ultimate trust for someone to give to a subordinate is hey I want you to go out and take my job that I would normally do you go do it so pretty amazing comeback humbling I mean yeah so you're almost at the end of deployment and up like an OP comes up we were one week away yep 101 we won't hack enough to get ready to go home note to self those last operations be careful first and last man the first mission once get you you and it's the mission comes down it's one of those missions where you guys are kind of like this probably isn't gonna go down it's sketchy Intel high visibility if it goes and you're thinking because we get a lot of those you know this is gonna happen and you get used to getting all amped up and then eventually you don't even get amped up anymore you continue with your daily routine go to the gym work out whatever in this particular case you guys you you literally went to the gym you're working out like normal and I didn't think there was a chance in hell this mission was gonna happen and some of the guys were looking at it but I just didn't think it was gonna happen it was already late so we were outside really the window you know to really try to execute in a in a good manner in my opinion and then there were external things you know there's some classified factors to it that I don't talk about in the book were which were other some of the really big reasons why I did not think there was any chance this was gonna happen but but it does and you guys roll out on a you know al Qaeda target and definitely you guys had the Intel that bad guys expected security team expect enemy security team expected and and again like we would hear that a lot I mean it's not like it's not like oh this Intel's a hundred percent and you're not gonna do anything different they tell you there's a security of enemies security team you're like okay Chuck we've heard that 27 times they've only been there however many times and so you're always expected that they had there was a little more detailed information about this security detail that made it a little bit hairier than some of our regular missions I mean there were things that we knew you I can't get any yeah I can't get into the details I'm basically more solid into absolutely so it made it a little bit different and kind of raised our hackles a little more than normal but you know the process of the mission is the same I mean I know probably you I've talked to other people you know the guys did the bin Laden raid the mechanics of that mission were the same it was just a level there know how we take down a target is pretty much the same regardless of where you go and it was the same for this case there were just some things that yes go mmm maybe we should prepare a little more you guys roll on the target and things get pretty pretty intense pretty quick once you've once you've you hit the target you've got it secured now we got some squirters meaning some folks that we think have run away from the target building again I'm not gonna go into the full detail of the mission which you did a beautiful job of explaining what this was like in the book and that's why people's get the books they can read it but as we mentioned earlier this ends up in a firefight and you're in it going back to the book I keep my radio and called JP troops in contact troops in contact I have three wounded including me the machine guns were still blazing away at us and they walked their barrels right and left criss-crossing our positions with hundreds of 7.62 millimeter bullets I recognized that if I didn't get a tourniquet on what I thought was the stump of my left arm I was going to bleed out I looked back at Al and the rest of my team behind the tire right then Al saw me get to my feet and try and run to join them al told me this later but I have no recollection recollection of standing up after I was hit the first time the PKM gunner spotted me moving and laid on his trigger according to Al had only taken a step or two in my head whipsawed forward and my body spun around to the left I fell limp to the ground the team thought I had been killed I'll recognize the dire situation we were in and called in an immediate fire mission the ac-130 crew turned it down the first time two times before finally making Alek knowledge that if anything happened to us it was Al's fault not the gunships the first 25 millimeter shells hit the thicket behind the enemy only less than 50 feet from the enemy machine-gun that engaged me I drifted in and out of consciousness the entire time awake in a fog of confusion one minute out cold the next al risked his life to save me during a lull and fire he rose from behind the tire and charged over to me Shaun lay down cover as al ran into the teeth of that PKM bullets cracked and wind around him but he reached me and dragged me back behind the tire where he put a tourniquet on my mangled arm I remember nothing of this and I didn't know al had even moved me to the tire until months after the firefight the medevac bird arrived a few minutes later and the guys helped us aboard once we were airborne and out of harm's way the remainder of the task unit fell back to the original target compound to wait for extract but the fight wasn't over the gunshot gun ship detected more movement in the thicket enough was enough al called in 105 millimeter howitzer from the ac-130 and turned the thicket into a smoking crater months later when JP visited me at home I learned that the al Qaeda commander had fled the house when he heard our birds coming at the start of the mission he left part of his personal security detail behind to fight a battle he had no stomach for himself and they died to the last man after inflicting three casualties on us months later another SEAL team ran the al Qaeda commander to the ground and killed him justice served so that firefight and again people should should read the book to get the details of that firefight but just reading about you wounded which I've covered that part and now you're up and running and get shot in that face and down every guy's think you're dead and and you know I should have covered this with a little bit more detail but you know you're trying to make calls you're trying to let people know what's going on you're trying to decipher the situation because it was a rough situation that you guys were in and you end up you know getting extracted your boys took care of you they did I owe my life to those guys I mean they fought back that gun ship overhead you know for special operations squadron I owe my life to those guys that was the closest fire mission ever in the Iraq war we were well well they wouldn't bring in that mission because we were we were literally within any Danger Close parameter there were the machine guns that had me pinned down we're about 45 feet 50 feet away so al did an amazing job I mean this was his third combat deployment you know experience JTAC experience team leader and you know really I mean he hung it all out there exposed himself to get me save my life with my tourniquet and the rest of the guys you know fought amazingly to get us out of there and get off the axe and survive and yeah I wanted out to get a Navy Cross they downgraded it to a Silver Star to this day you know I'll tell anyone he deserved Navy Cross but all those guys did an amazing job I owe my life my life to them and the gun ship it and obviously you know in the beginning of the book you know the thought that I'd lost my arm and what tent what happened is actually I guess my arm was pinned under me so when I reached I couldn't feel it and you know it just stunned all my nerves there was a nerve damage too right yeah yeah yeah so when when and this is kind of an interesting point that I talked to people about and something I'm speaking on all the time now this idea of surviving so having trained in a career where we learn how to execute ruthless and devastating violence of action in an ambush to crush the enemy and destroy the enemy in that kill zone on the X and to now be on the flip side of that coin and be in a very well executed ambush I mean they had us it was an L am bullish they had us caught a very good crossfire you know and just sheer will for us to fight and and at least and push back enough that it gave us a window and and by the end sheer we were she locked that there happened to be that tractor tire back there at least one point of cover because beyond that there was nothing but thousands of yards of open Iraqi desert but to be in that ambush in that devastating and withering crossfire I stepped out of that ambush into another ambush and the next ambush was what I call a life ambush suddenly here I was I had been on this amazing journey of failure growth understanding gaining experience and wisdom and redemption and you know career back on track getting ready to screen and go over to the next level SEAL team was my goal when I came back from that deployment I was doing that and suddenly to find myself laying in a hospital bed so weak I needed nurses to help me go to the bathroom from the amount of blood loss I had the very first thing I woke to was the doctors telling me most likely they were gonna have to amputate my arm I had no use of my hand I had not seen myself in the mirror my face was totally blown apart I had lost my nose cheekbone my eye my baton the bullet traveled the bullet hit me right in front of the ear travelled through my face and exited the right side of my nose so it took off most of my nose and took out most of my cheekbone it vaporized my orbital floor so my eye actually dropped down into the new fountain pool in my face so it damaged my eye muscles I broke all the bones above my eye had shattered my jaw broke my jaw to my chin so I have not seen myself laying in the hospital bed and I'll be honest I was I wasn't ready to look at myself I knew I had tubes coming out of everywhere I was tricked I was wired shot out of stomach tube that's how they were feeding me so I stepped into this next ambush I was you know with this thought of where do I go from here and I'll be honest for the first couple of days I kind of struggled and I think this is natural so we talked about this idea of being pinned down on the X and how we have to survive in whether it's a real world ambush or it's a life ambush for anyone that's out there that's encountered some sort of devastating event and I classify life ambush as an event that'll forever leave physical mental or emotional scars on you you have to get off the X so I'm laying there in this hospital bed and I'm like kicking myself oh my god man what if I had you do the things that humans do when bad things happen we start to think well what if I had done this or what if I had done that or you know what if I could go back and change this fact and I did that for probably I don't know 36 hours after I got to pathetic you know just kind of lost in my mind thinking about it and at one point I just said stop you can't go back and change the past man what happens happen the only thing you can do is shape the future and I thought back to that journey that I had been on from ground zero from that broken man in Afghanistan ready to kill myself to where I had come and I said dude the only thing you can do from here is shape the future so get off the ax and go and I I never looked back from that point and I tell people that you know you have to push yourself into those zones of discomfort so that you can handle these hard situations when they come because if you've never Ford yourself if you've never been put into these areas of discomfort you're gonna be crushed when they come because you're not going to be ready I was so ready for that moment when it came I mean you know it took me about 36 hours after I got home to figure it out but still that's pretty quick for a devastating injury like that and I never looked back you're you're in Bethesda and just just to kind of give a little bit of detail around that you got some doctor named female doctor named dr. Maillard and here we go back to the book kind of list she's about to list your kind of your situation that you're in with energetic bluntness she laid out the extent of my wounds the machine gun bullet entered just in front of my right ear it shattered my job vaporized my right orbital floor destroyed my cheek and exited through my nose I'd suffered nerve damage as well virtually nothing was left in my cheekbone or ocular floor bones on the right side of my face she and her team was amazed I didn't suffer greater eye damage so that was a blessing my nose was almost completely destroyed and we need a full reconstruction they would need to repair my shattered jaw implant a titanium plate to replace the ocular floor and would have to repair the damage to the rest of my facial bones on the right side I was still under the impression they could fix me right up and get me back into the team's not not now I was not so sure and you at this point your jaws wired shut in your trach so you can't talk to you right out a note how many weeks are we looking at here doc weeks she said surprised no Jay we're talking years a few years at least years it didn't even sink in at first there would be progressive surgeries each one will need to be fully healed before we can move on to the next one she went on to explain that there was no road map for the extent of the net because of the extent and nature of my wounds my case was highly complex and I would recall require extensive bone and skin grafts in the years ahead after she left I struggled to keep my spirits up this was news I did not want to hear yeah you know and this is an interesting fact you know I talked to a lot of other team guys about this I think a lot of us we do a really good job in the SEAL Teams and you know I'd like to assume other military units do the same we do a really good job of preparing guys if they get killed you know page 2 we make sure they're all taken care of I don't think any of us ever give much thought I sure didn't if I was severely wounded I think most of us think one side of the coin is you know it'll be merely a merely a flesh wound if you know and we'll walk away and we'll get back and then the other side of the coin is I'll be killed and I was good with either of those I you know just kind of resigned myself to that back so it was a whole other thing to be severely wounded and be faced with this fact that hey you may be forever disabled and it was tough for you and here's you run into this situation going back to the book one afternoon two family members came to visit us Erika took the opportunity to step out and grab some lunch for herself I talked with them for a bit which left which quickly fatigued me I started to drift off before I even realized it while I was dozing I heard them whispering to each other I only got fragments of the conversation but it was enough they were full of pity for me when Erika returned and my relatives departed I wrote down all that had happened recounting it sent me into a fury again I tore off the sheet of paper and handed it to her then I thought for a minute and added never again never again would someone seal feel sorry for me I fought for my country and I'll fight to regain my health so I will ultimately be able to return to our nation's battlefields I was not here for sympathy I was here to recover to be a leader to set an example of mental fortitude it would be all too easy to give up into despair but I refused there were men and women in this complex who were far more badly then I was missing limbs burned suffering brain trauma or eyesight loss I would be grateful for what I had determined to succeed in the days ahead and when he used these principles I learned over the last two years to guide me forward I wrote a note to all my visitors in a hasp an Erica to hang it up on the door and here's what the note said attention to all who enter here if you are coming into this room with sorrow or to feel sorry for my wounds go elsewhere the wounds I received I gotten a job I loved doing it for people I loved supporting the freedom of a country I deeply love I am incredibly tough and will make a full recovery what is full that is the absolute utmost physically my body has the ability to recover then I will push that about 20 percent further through sheer mental tenacity this room you are about to enter is a room of fun optimism and intense rapid regrowth if you are not prepared for that go elsewhere from the management and awesome.i meaning that that picture got sent to me by someone and eventually it got sent to everyone by everyone so is a viral picture of that sign on your door that you eventually put in bigger writing to make sure everyone saw it that's right you you eventually you do get home and and again you know what always I went Jacko I want to make a really important point about this cuz that that that was really a learning point for me or it was a jump point and and it comes back to what we talked about earlier in the beginning a little bit of this social leadership idea who you surround yourself with and in that moment I had individuals that wanted to express pity and I realized how dangerous that was because if I listened too long to people express that it would be easy to accept that except this victim mentality and I've walked that road before and I was like no way am I going to allow that to happen it is a choice and that's what people need to understand you know having a positive attitude on how you handle the situation's you're in is a choice and the more you accept positivity and drive it forward the more you actually start to believe it and it will create momentum and that's really what happened with that sign I said it I will not allow that to happen again no one will come in here and be sad because I refuse I will not allow it and and you you never know the impact of the decision that you're gonna make you never know how even though deep down inside you're like you know holy shit how do I get out of this situation but you project that positivity who you can bring with you and bring up and how much you can leave a an impact on the last a lifetime that sign has gone on to help hundreds of thousands of people I've had people write me that have had cancer I've had people that have read that have written me that have had major horrific accidents I didn't keep the sign I had it framed and it hangs in the wounded ward at Walter Reed and the bottom of the sign is like rub clean now and I'm told that all these wounded warriors whenever they go to a surgery they go by and they rub it and it just it continues to have this impact secretary Gates wrote about the sign in his book Michelle Obama's book just came out she wrote about the sign and what the impact is so one moment of saying I'm not going to allow someone else to drive my thinking makes all the difference and I tell so many people that it is a choice it is a choice you can choose to be a victim and feel sorry for yourself or you can choose to be a vector and drive forward even if you don't believe it in the moment it doesn't matter you know say it live it and start driving forward and that belief will catch fire within you and everybody else surrounds you no doubt about it man and and the the unfortunate opposite that is when you start allowing yourself to be negative and you start listening to people that want to be negative and be and drag you down you can easily add yourself in that direction as well so when you make a choice and make a decision on which one of those two directions you want to move in up or down we recommend you move up move forward yeah absolutely later that spring Erik and I went out to eat at a local Outback Steakhouse to celebrate the unwire Alaia it been almost seven months since I've been able to chew food I was still underweight and confined to a wheelchair because of the grass but we both needed a night out I just you know I when I was reading this book I was like eating something whatever you know and it's just one of those things that we all take for granted every single day and you know faddle I've had multiple prisoners of war on this podcast and you know they're eating a ball rice once a day or ball of rice twice a day that has chips of wood in it for three years for six years and here here you are you know you're not the prisoner of war but something as simple as eating a steak and that really like hit me hard because as you know I takes takes very seriously and and to think that like for seven months no steak and the daily things and and and that always gets me thinking about the daily things that when I talk to my friends that have been wounded it's like it's the daily everyday things and as a matter of fact when we had Jim Webb on and he was talking about one of his friends that have been wounded in Vietnam and he's like that's the daily Kurds like that guy was courageous in Vietnam but he's courageous every single day takes him X amount of time to get up out of bed take some X amount of time to get his prosthetic so take some X amount of time to do normal functions that people can normally do easily he's got a struggle with them all and he does it every single day without complaining daily courage and so just thinking about you in that situation man awesome I flew to Chicago almost once a month the preparation for my first surgery with dr. Walton which he'd scheduled for July the airports and their crowds continued to be a torment little kids pointed at me and called to their mothers to look at me two people refused to talk to me they'd act ashamed or embarrassed or they'd set expressions of pity on their faces internally I raged at them are these the people I sacrificed for coming back from a ship coming back from Chicago on one trip I just broke every one who stared at me I treated with a sudden boo by the end of the trip though I realized I need to do something different or the bitterness would eat me alive it gave me a thought I came up with an idea I went online and designed a couple t-shirts the first one said stop staring I got shot by a machine gun it would have killed you I put an American flag on the back and called it wounded where so are you still making wounded wear shirts so weird wears on pause for right now but it will be coming back okay we've got some work we're getting things online in 2019 but yeah a lot of people have asked me when will it come back it will be back I assure you yeah so this podcast is eternal so most likely when people are listening to this it is live you can get it you can get your wounded wear t-shirt that's right yeah you were talking about that that sign and that sign got so much attention and it was so so impactful to so many people you ended up going to the Oval Office you ended up meeting President Bush with your family and then you ended up coming back to the White House again and we're going back to the book I went to Mike mom sores Medal of Honor ceremony in the White House that April Michael is a fellow seal who had jumped on a hand grenade thrown onto a rooftop he had and saved two of his teammates in a firefight in Ramadi he shielded his brothers with his own body and paid the ultimate price for that it was deeply moving to be there to see Mike's family receive his posthumous Medal of Honor but while I was there I met another seal named Ryan joke he'd been part of the team three and had served with legendary sniper Chris Kyle in Iraq during the 2006 campaign Ryan had been a mark 48 machine gunner for the team and during a firefight that spring a bullet had struck his weapon then hit him in the face destroying his right eye he survived and reached Bethesda much as I would a year later but nerve damage cost him his vision in his left eye the prospect of spending the rest of his life blind had to have been terrifying though he never showed it instead he announced that if he had to be blind he would be the best damn blind man there was so that's where I met you for the first time obviously uh Mikey and Ryan and Chris were all with me in task unit bruiser and you came out for the for the Medal of Honor ceremony for Mikey and I actually remember looking at you guys you know looking at you guys talking to each other and I actually thought I had pictures of it but I didn't I thought I had pictures of you two talking but I didn't have any pictures but it was it was crazy to sit there and look at both you guys that have been you know both been shot unfortunately Ryan you know he lost vision in both eyes which obviously could have happened to you very easily and thank God you know it didn't and you guys kind of you know I guess when you have getting shot in the head and calm and you guys kind of became Bros and continue on here Ryan and I bumped into each other on multiple occasions over the next several months on one of the occasions Ryan had come out to the East Coast SEAL Teams for a wounded warrior benevolent organization conference as we made small talk and met different people I Ryan and another SEAL who had been shot me I were joking around and came up with the idea for a club for seals who had been shot in the head it was a very small club we decided to call the club shit seals hit in the head we unanimously voted on our motto this club sucks so yeah just just pretty awesome and that's pretty much the you know that's definitely Ryan Biggles jobs attitude was he was just gonna have an awesome time all the time regardless what situation he was in he was gonna he was gonna get after it and yeah what's cool to see you guys meet yeah Ryan was awesome and you know he was ahead it was interesting because the reconstruction process that they were doing with me was the same they were doing with Ryan and obviously I was blessed to keep my vision although they were fixing things with this right eye but so often I'd call him and I'd be like hey you know you had this done how'd it go you know what did you do do you have any recommendations like anything you know you go to the people who have experience so Ryan and I got close through that yeah I'm just kind of learning from him well one of the this this was another bit of a of a surprise to me well again this is the kind of thing that I never had to think about but here you go going back to book and the months that follow it I knew that I was in for the long game the slog through surgeries and setbacks continued and again you got to read this book to realize the absolute just medical a medical trauma that you're going through day-in day-out and this really drove at home to me I call it a medical budge there you go it's really what medical buds and here's here's one thing that just hit me like a ton of bricks by the summer of 2009 I was starting to run low on the available patches of skin for grafting my body was roped with scars from surgical sites and over a dozen grafts that to me I'm thinking myself I mean you're running out of skin to graft to to do damp to do damage repair to your face what is that process like so a lot of times they harvest the skin from you know your thighs and areas and and it and it wasn't that I was just running out of skin they were running out of skin because I've got quite a few tattoos so my back is totally tattooed you know you know top my arms so that's what the problem was becoming putting tattooed skin on other parts of your bodies no big deal they could have cut that in a second but obviously they were like you know we did I did not want to put tattooed skin on my face so that's where we were starting to run into issues and this really is something that a lot of people don't understand with with battlefield injuries is they're super dirty bombs are dirty bullets are dirty and you fall in the soil and you bleed into the soil overseas and that's dirty so the vast majority of wounded warriors come home especially from this war with infection problems and there's so many guys myself included that it's not your initial injuries that are as devastating I mean obviously there's levels of devastation but for so many of us it's the infection problems so many guys come back with their limbs and end up losing their limbs because of the infection I had major infection problems which caused us to continue have to do more and more grafts they would have to cut out what they had done because it was infected and failed they rebuilt my nose three times so the first two that totally cut out and start over so that's why we were starting to run into issues hey where do we you know where do we get more cartilage where do we get more skin they can use cadaver but it does not it does not last it doesn't always take so they always want to use your own body and that's where we started to run into issues September 24 2009 Ryan Jobe is dead I hadn't known Ryan incredibly well I wouldn't call him a close friend we talked on the phone occasionally we shared a common experience and discussed our notes on recovery and we shared a twisted sense of humor but above all I respected his spirit and relentless energy recapture all he could out of life he made the most of every moment and achieved things most people with their eyesight intact never would in 2008 he climbed Mount Rainier when I heard about that I was blown away in the climbing community the 14,000 foot volcanic Mountain in Washington state is considered one of the most difficult to summit in all North America it has deadly crevasses narrow ledges and glacial ice it is as technical climb as you can find Mount Ranier claims on average three lives a year of those who aspire to summit and Ryan made it to the top two years after that bullit robbed him of his vision he and Kelly who he had married he and Kelly were getting ready to have a daughter together Ryan had started a new life found a fresh path to blaze and had built something from the ruins he really was being the best damn blind man out there then with the snap of cosmic fingers it was all stolen from him and if you don't know the story there was he went through one of his many surgeries because he was still going through surgeries and after the surgeries there was complications and he he died as well they killed him I mean they messed up yeah there was Harris overdosed him that was a total mistake and that slayed me Ryan's death rocked me because I know how hard it is to stay positive and to drive forward despite these really hard injuries and it just it killed me to know that you know it was a medical mistake that killed him you know I mean it's hard enough to go through all this and you survive battle and you know all these things so that that that really shook me when Ryan had died and you're still looking at unknown numbers of surgeries ahead and at the time yeah that was halfway through so this was 2009 I ended up having surgeries all the way up until 2011 yeah and the other thing that was crazy about Ryan was I'm not gonna say he was out of the woods I mean but he was pretty damn far out of the woods and that's why you know to lose him like that was just a fucking nightmare yeah you at this point you still want to get back to the teams and you're trying to get your arm fixed to the point where you can have enough mobility in it to to change magazines to operate your weapon so you're going to a bunch of different people trying to see who is who can make this happen you finally find a guy that's you know you think you have a good lead on somebody that can make this happen and you go to see him and he says going back to the book Jay I'm gonna be frank with you if you were my son I wouldn't let you do this what you have now is the best possible outcome if you proceed and have another surgery you'll probably lose some of the range of motion you have now worse you'll set yourself up for a lifetime of chronic pain the drive home was a quiet one for me as I deliberated whether or not to roll the dice one last time by the time I turned off the freeway and for Virginia Beach I knew it was not worth the risk my days as an operator were over part of me always suspected this might happened this might happen now it was confirmed I had no epiphanies during the drive home about what to do now as the that dream to kick doors again slipped away what would I do how would I support my family I didn't have any answers but I knew one thing I'd live as Ryan Joe Pat honor his memory and never take another day for granted Ryan's death reminded me that nothing is guaranteed in life they can be taken away in a heartbeat the life you've built with everything you've got can come apart an instant from circumstances far beyond your control you either adapt and overcome or you become a casualty of those twists of fate I refused to be a casualty so you get this news that hey you're not either we can't do this this is what you got what you got this is where you're at and the idea of getting back operational again is gone and it's funny Hyun I were just talking about you know you were over talking to some students at Budds and you had a guy that was was but what he been injured older guy you said it wasn't real to come back yeah he's medically dropped medically dropped not going to be able to come back and so dream is gone it's interesting you're talking to him and you'd been through it you've been through it and your attitude was okay what we do now and like I told him I mean so you know this this idea of life ambushes I told him I said you just stepped into one and they're they're small ones and big ones a lot of times they're totally unexpected but the reality is most ambushes aren't totally unexpected there are indicators that we see before we ever get into it whether we're aware of seeing them or not sometimes it's after the fact that we look back 9/11 is a good example of there were indicators that we missed before 9/11 happened for us as seals when we move into areas we know that's a bad area we are in an area where we're getting channelized there's high ground above us this would be a good area to execute an ambush you know for me I had seen those indicators coming so I kind of knew what was coming I had met so many doctors who said literally the doctor from Johns Hopkins who put my arm back together they actually wrote a medical journal about what he did with my elbow I mean he successfully reconstructed an elbow that had been totally destroyed and it was always funny to me there's an arrogance and I think there has to be there has to be a little bit level of Beranek arrogance and confidence and high level orthopedic surgeons so every time I'd go meet one of these guys they'd be like oh yeah I can fix your arm and then they slap that x-ray up and I'd watch it was like the air got sucked out of the room as they looked at it and then they would look at me and they'd say yeah man I'm sorry I they're like I don't even know how your arms work in the way it is so when I met the guy from Duke who was one of the premier you know hand and arm guys literally the guy that put my arm together was probably a deep premier hand and arm gone I tried to get him to go back and do more and he said no he said there's no way in hell he said your arm he said going into your arm and getting what we got is a miracle he's like I am NOT going back in and I recommend against anybody else doing it well I still tried to find other doctors and it was this guy from Duke who finally convinced me so when that moment came I kind of knew so as opposed to this young man from Budds it was less unexpected than what I step you know for me it was less unexpected so it just became where do I go from here and and interestingly enough I had laid out some different things for myself one I wanted to do a 20-year career so that kind of became my first thing can i still stay in and finish my career maybe I can't be operational at this point I was at Dam Neck and I think I was at 18 years at this point so it'd have been four years almost four years from my injury and so over a couple of days I talked to I was working in operations and I just said hey what are our options what can we do and they actually allowed me to go work some new things different projects and different things so it was great they allowed me to finish what I set out to do but it also gave me a decent amount of time at this point it was another year before we started the medical retirement process which actually took two years so it carried me to 21 years and it gave me a lot of time to really look at you know where does my future go from here and kind of lay out what are my new passions what is my purpose and where do I go from this life after the military what can I do with all these lessons that I've learned and you know how do I pay it forward how do I honor Ryan how do I honor all these guys that everyday I walk by this granite wall and they didn't get a choice they didn't get a choice to come home so thankfully you know I had that time it's still within the community but also coming to grips with the fact that you know like I talked to those young men about so many people are so strongly tied to what they do for a living that they cannot function if suddenly it's taken away from them there's a lot of meat a lot of police officers and firefighters or professional athletes that if suddenly their career is over they don't know how to function without that they've tied their identity so much around what they've done and I realized that the lessons that I learned in the the SEAL Teams and this journey that I had been on was incredibly relatable and it was and nothing to do with tactical lessons you know I didn't need to be the guy that got out and taught you how to shoot or do anything and that like that what I realized it realized is there were amazing life lessons the lessons human lessons lessons in leadership and teamwork and overcoming adversity and this idea of helping people you know not only survive but thrive from cry said ambushes so that really started to become the path that I was walking and to help other wounded warriors well I just want to wrap this last little section of the book because we're talking about the identity and what you invested your life into and you say this I held the Trident in my hand this golden emblem had driven my life I focused on it I coveted it I became enamored by it I almost lost it and then I earned it back before I sacrificed my body for it only then did I finally understand what it truly represented it carried the spirit of warrior poets like Mike Murphy Mike Mansoor and Chris Kyle it carried the spirit of my friends Ryan job Adam Brown Mike mcgrevey Kevin Houston and the 79 other men who have made the ultimate sacrifice for freedom and the brotherhood since 9/11 I didn't know why God spared me but I did know I would find a way into the future where I would use each and every day to honor my brothers who had not made it home and I think obviously you've done a lot to honor our brothers and I think you continue to do that obviously every day with what you're doing and how you're doing it and how you're taking the lessons that you learned and bringing them to to more people spreading the word broadly what did that translation transition look like like the you know from the time you got out into where you are now because you know I mean obviously everyone that's in the military right now one day I hate to break the news to y'all one day you're gonna be not in the military anymore bring us from you know the end of your career into where you are now and where you're focused right now and and what you're doing yeah absolutely I think that transition is a lot harder than people realize I think a lot of things I'm sure you experienced this we take for granted the level of structure that exists in the military and suddenly you get out into the civilian world and that's not there I was a little bit fortunate enough that I had launched the nonprofit wounded where later to become the combat wounded coalition while I was still on active duty but so when I got out that kind of became my focus god I will say that I made the mistake that a lot of military members and especially Special Operations members make when they get out I tried to do everything everything I saw was an opportunity that I didn't want to lose out on and i falsely can convince myself yeah i had the ability to do that so running the nonprofit we did a lot of amazing things you know two and a half million dollars we helped thousands of wounded warriors even created a program specifically to help wounded warriors build structure find their new passion but what I started to realize and I was doing all this while I was still trying to speak and develop content and work on things and take care of a family and kids and all these things and I kind of had an epiphany in 2018 I'd been doing this you know I had retired in 2013 so five years I'd been doing this and I suddenly realized you've got to find that one thing that you truly are going to make a difference at and I took a step back in 2018 and said where can I have the most impact and what really is my new mission what drives my passion where is my destination where I'm where am I going to set that course to go and I realized I look back you know we were doing a lot of great things with the nonprofit but there's 43,000 veteran nonprofits out there we are losing more guys to suicide right now then we lost to the enemy and I said okay so one option is you go create a whole nother nonprofit but there's a lot of good ones out there and I think that's part of the problem it's diluting some of the message so I said maybe I'm better off focusing on helping a whole bunch of people with this message and lending my support so to another organization so myself and the board made the decision that we were going to face down our organization in 2018 and 2019 made that shift that I'm totally focusing on delivering this content to help people overcome adversity to to launch themselves out of failure and to not only survive which some people just survived from these life ambushes from these massive catastrophic events but to thrive from them to use them as a launch point to get better and to understand how to do that and because I realized man you know this you've written all this amazing content on it and all that is coming into the second book that will come out in December called overcome so I have online courses that are getting ready to come on board here in the next couple of months and I just want to get out there and help as many people as I can and then lend myself to some of the organizations that are out there that are helping our wounded warriors specifically with post-traumatic stress and traumatic brain injuries one of the things I've started doing a lot of research and what we're beginning to understand is I used to think that if we could help guys find a new purpose after they got out it would help solve their problems wounded warriors but what we're beginning to understand is that we have never the way we train down the way we have fought wars is exposing guys especially in front-line combat units and special operational operation units to level of blast that we've never in in up until this point the way we trained in the military we haven't done before so I mean you look at our breachers and how many blasts we exposed them to just in training you know and what we're starting to see I mean I've had multiple friends now that have killed themselves who I said no way no way and I've watched these downward slides and what we're starting to find out is we are creating physiological impacts on the brain from these continued exposures to these blasts so we need more research we need you know we need more non pharmacological solutions to these problems and there's a lot of things that are out there that are on the forefront so one of the things with research I started doing some stuff with the concussion Legacy Foundation which is the same group working with the NFL or you know highlighting the impact of CTE on NFL players and we're beginning to realize that some of our special operations guys like Rob guzo who took his life severe CTE but what they figured out is it's different some of the premium and premier neurologists that are out there figuring out it's different it's it's blast and the blast goes all the way through the brain as opposed to a concussion that creates an impact and there's a centralized location now for guys or even gals out there that have had multiple concussions that creates more but the bottom line is we need this research so I donated my brain to the concussion Legacy Foundation and I'm encouraging all the veterans that are out there if you have been in combat donate your brain you don't need it I get it you don't need it when you're gone and they're not going to come early and collect you know but the bottom line is it is an amazing way to be able to give back to the veterans that are coming up behind you because they don't have enough veteran brains in the brain banks that are out there to understand the kind of trauma we're putting on our brains and until they can and obviously they can't study the brains while we're still alive so if if you want a way to get back look up the concussion Legacy Foundation and donate your brain I did it we need the research 20 30 years from now we can make a difference to save some young warrior that's out there that got exposed to blasts and now can't figure out why his world is falling apart around him so those are my passions that's my purpose and I want to help as many people out there I want to make you better help you thrive from adversity help you thrive from failure in crisis and for our wounded warriors I want to help try and solve this epidemic we're seeing in the suicides and the brain trauma yeah that's I mean that's just awesome it's awesome see moving forward with that and I know we've been going for a while here and that's probably a pretty good place to wrap where do you where can people find you where should people locate you and when they want to when they want to hear from you yeah absolutely best place go to Jason Redman comm that's my website and you can see what I'm doing you can contact me through there I'm on all the major social media platforms Jason Redman on Facebook and Jason Redman WW on Instagram and Twitter awesome echo speaking of people making people better you have any quick recommendations on how you know we could improve ourselves sure this is actual Charles by the way I have one question in Ranger school when they told you to like alright when they asked you you need your Gucci was that the thing that kind of sent you over that when they said the Gucci think no I don't think it was that I really it was it was the land nav comments I mean I had taught land map so the funny thing about that Gucci jacket is so the army guys were only allowed to wear the army jacket liner well we didn't have those yeah and is Gucci Patagonia I had the remember the green phones that came yeah that's what I had so every day I put that on the Ranger instructors would lose their minds and and in the beginning I had such a bad attitude that I just took it in the negative way well the second time I went through it became the how often can I put this on and spin these guys so I I still have it don't have it every time I pull it out of my closet it puts a smile on my face you know it's nice what else no that's it for questions yeah yeah we can talk about getting better though yeah and and Jays about to start training in jiu-jitsu boom so yeah he's gonna need a jujitsu key so we need to get that hooked up where are we gonna hook him up with a key from origin 100% not even 99 percent 100 percent 100 for g and all made in America okay okay that's what we need you know continue to grow this country yes sir so yeah origin if you're into jiu-jitsu getting into jiu-jitsu or already into this you want a Gihon newgy or another geek fortune I thought you guys a used ghee yeah you the market for used gi's know there's probably depends on who wore it I guarantee there's people out there that would love it ja kogi but that gets a little weird yeah that doesn't smell good well yeah maybe some some people maybe if someone like lost weight or something you know I don't use this happens to a venue where out of ghee or I was talking to Pete the other day the amount of ghee pants orgy's period that had been returned is like so he said yeah we get like three g's back a year where someone's actually worn somehow they just don't wear out though we're GZ just do not wear out yeah yeah get something that yeah you gotta like um yeah like if you lose weight or something and then you don't use it anymore or if you're like you get the new one and you know how like you turn you back to the old one because the new one that's the new hotness you know you don't really wear it anymore so you give it to your friend or something like this there's that you are these rash guards t-shirts other stuff yeah supplements supplements joint warfare joint warfare and krill oil turned out to be the most important supplements there are in my opinion you thought it was the protein powder and the creatine that's what we thought in the beginning not anymore joint joint or 400% ease we thought that yeah well yes I agree we do have during warfare coil and if you do want protein you might as well enjoy it yes sir get yourself some milk it's still good for it you know we need protein we do you know you need the protein that's why we have milk which have you tried milk I haven't okay we're get you some milk and especially well it depends what flavors you like I like mint chocolate chip I am a fan of it okay so which isn't mint bulk but apparently doc Luke hates mint well apparently he was going berserker the other day saying why would you drink something that tastes like toothpastes yeah yeah but so as it turns out some of the unit to the back to another fence analogy some it's like you either love it or you really don't like it that's as it turns out that'll this situation with them where we got mint peanut butter chocolate vanilla gorilla I'm a huge fan peanut butter chocolate okay yes okay that's my chocolate I got hostel with my whole family the other day well not with my whole family with my wife and my youngest daughter because there was no I wanted some yogurt and there was no blueberry there was no strawberry there was no coconut there was only vanilla and so I started saying why would a human being in 2019 buy vanilla yogurt like choose use of all the I get if it comes in the lady packing you end up with it you know understood but straight-up selected no wrong answer you know so I had to get hostile super hostile and I was telling my wife and my youngest daughter that they are crazy for just like in that vanilla yeah they are for sure but at the end of the day we don't fear to understand other people they have other opinions my my youngest daughter nine years old she makes so what she does is she takes strawberries cuts them up and then she put the whipped cream on it and then she takes warrior kid milk strawberry and sprinkles at a nice yeah yeah well protein protein pump yeah yeah it's good oh yeah worry kid nope that's for the kid right little more formidable I know that possibly do drink it yes sir also if you want to represent while you're on this path jiu-jitsu working out waking up early you wake up early I do all right I get up at 5:00 okay so the up early crew if you're on that oh and you want to represent aesthetically chocolate as a store it's called Jacko's store so go to jockle store calm that's where you can get shirts discipline equals freedom a shirt that has chuckles face on it it says good backwards it's for you it's a message for you anyway you want a very very very fitting for today's story right yeah of it looking at yourself yes adversity that's right here got a prank problem going on good good opportunity look forward actually I like that like a free you know cuz there's a lot of different approaches you know like you say get off the X and like look forward absolutely man you have you so many people look back they look back at what they've lost yeah back oh yeah what's going on right now kind of thing which is natural by the way oh right huh but man yeah that's good you likely back long enough to assess what you did wrong and then you move forward yeah learn some lessons and then move forward but yeah so yeah if you want to represent go to jockle store calm a lot of cool stuff on there if you like something get something new hoodies up there by the way by the way are they thick okay those of us you know that's not what I'm looking for you know we're making I'm gonna think I'm gonna call when I finally get the hoodies that I want McCall Michigan hoodies or Minnesota hoodies for them people mean Eskimo yeah yeah we're all trade off yup north north pole or there you go on the vortex yeah you think they wanted that lightweight hoodie during the polar vortex bro no but I'm just saying there's like different regions of the world so you get that line with fur guarantee you for 20 below yeah region that we're talking about is cold yes sir okay I dig it in that is a good name for it for sure cool so anyway yes when it gets cold you can have hot chocolate tea yes as opposed to call jock whitey can milk is on Amazon and will ever subscribe to the podcast if you want to don't forget about the warrior kid podcast you know it's good a lot of people say that's the best podcast for kids ever yeah there no law yes from kids and here's why you feel that way you won't be wrong by the way that you feel this way because it's so simple so you're like thinking of it in terms of well yeah when my kid listens to this oh they're gonna get it yeah fully and then you listen to it you're like I'm kind of getting to me you know like it's kind of for me so I love with adults man we complicate yeah every yeah you do yes yeah that's the that's why I love the warrior Kid books this is a message for a ten-year-old and guess what I've had I have many adults that say thank you for writing your book Echo's one of them another one yes yeah so does that don't forget that warrior kid soap from young Aidan 13 year old warrior kid has his own business he's getting after it he's got goats up in central California he milks them you can't sell goat milk or whatever in California cuz they got all these rules so what can you do with it you can make soap he started making soap and his motto is stay clean which I paid up don't worry I gave it to you I'm so arrogant and egotistical I want to take the credit for the for the name or whatever the mantra of of Aden soap store yeah messed up that so it's a collaborative English YouTube channel Echo's makes a bunch of videos speaking of arrogant he thinks his videos are great and he posts them on there I there you go never demonstrated that but yeah no rule thank you okay you sure about that yeah I think so yes that ships with yes yes sir yeah YouTube there's a good on the video version of this podcast too by the way sure you know you can see what everybody looks like if you care about that sort of thing um people watch people watching ones with guests because they want to see what because they know what I look like they know what echo looks like they want to see what Jay redwood looks like I want to see what what does a man look like that took a round really yeah they're cool at that point they stopped the podcast and press play on YouTube yeah see what's going on it is two million dollars in sexiness so if you've ever wondered where your American tax dollars went it went to a good cause they're not you're not quite the Six Million Dollar Man you're the two men that's your million dollars yeah 100 psychological warfare you can get that you it'll it is it's a little something to help you out look it up on iTunes that's all we're gonna say about it period well period I have more to say period you gotta go man Jase gotta go yeah what maybe Jay doesn't know what psychological warfare is guess what it is it's a it's an album with tracks chocolate tracks telling you how to get through moments of weakness that you might come across and about instilling that discipline to get up I've actually listened to psychological I thought I got flanked for a second but it actually wasn't I stand corrected yeah what else we got we got on it if or when you add to your home gym situation your home fitness situation going on it calm / Chuck with a lot of good stuff on there a jump rope if you don't like it rings actually rings are a hundred percent in my opinion I'm signing a hundred percent the best thing that you can get I need some rings yeah I know where to go first I'm thinking about that for my home gym you know you definitely definitely gotta have rings in it that's the first thing you need is a the first thing you need is a pull-up bar but you can do more with rings and you can do poems so you might as well just get rigs kettle bells tube by the way oh we got some books okay first of all book again read a bunch of excerpts today but not even close to putting giving justice to this book to tried it by Jason Redman we will have it up on the site right yes sir it's on the top menu menus on the podcaster looks from episodes at our website and a photo that looks like a cool website for 1996 yeah I was the only guy and I was like yeah well that's 96 but that's cool maybe echos just doesn't like me retro eight more years it's gonna look cool with the website so you know you're ahead of your time the Jacko's store website looks all cool yes it does why is that well you know very easy okay cool that sounds great we also got some ebooks miking the Dragons kids book for kids between the ages of 4 and 100 yeah so get Mikey the Dragons way the warrior kid and marks mission those are out and we have book 3 which I completed is being drawn by the artist right now John Bozak we're gonna put that up so you can pre-order it so you so I don't sell out of books like we did Mikey the Dragons immediately so I will fix that this time I apologize last time discipline equals freedom Field Manual get that how to get after it audio is on iTunes Amazon music Google Play extreme ownership first book that I wrote with my brother lave babban and the follow-on to that that I cotta me a leadership I'm talking about don't go too far in one direction or the other as a leader or you will blow it Ashlin fronts my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership whatever problems you have in your organization i 100% guarantee they are leadership problems that's what they are and that's what we do me Lafe Babb and JP Janelle Dave Burke Flynn Cochran Mike Cirelli Mike bimah go to echelon front comm if you need help with leadership in your team or organization the muster speaking of leadership this is our Leadership Conference 2019 this is when it's going down May 23rd and 24th in shy pound mm-hm shy town Senate town Chicago where you get stakes we're gonna we're gonna talk about leadership September 19th and 20th in Denver Colorado mmm we're gonna its takes there are two and then December 4th and 5th and Sydney Australia we're gonna go there and yes we're gonna get stakes there as well look at all these events have sold out completely and all these are gonna sell out too so if you want to come go to extreme ownership calm to register I haven't even put where it's selling a lot right now and I haven't even posted anything about it so I'm scared so I don't want people to I don't want non podcast listeners to get a crack at it early yeah and I'm gonna have to post soon so to let people know what's up EF online so this is online interactive leadership training it is interact no I know it goes sounds like one of those words like a like a buzz word right interactive but you straight up in Iraq yeah like okay remember those video games back in the day we're all about the same age swear on the old school computers right where you couldn't you're like oh I'm traveling through the woods and I can go down this choose-your-own-adventure yeah you know and you can choose one and it'll go do it it's kind of like that yes you have to make leadership decisions in the online Trinity to want to learn the principles you have to try and apply them to combat and business situations so that's EF online comm check it out you can get it as an individual or you can get an enterprise version for your whole company so that's that an EF overwatch where we're connecting combat-proven leaders from the spec ops community and from the combat aviation community with companies in the Cillian sector that need leadership proven leadership to align and move their company forward go to EF over watch.com for that and if you want to continue this conversation ask questions give us answers tell me what I mispronounced tell me what historical fact I got wrong hit us up we're on the social media on Twitter Instagram and on the face Facebook Redmond is at Jason Redmond ww echo is that echo Charles I'm at jackal willing echo anything else no thank you so much for coming Jay Redmond any closing thoughts to shout out to everybody out there you know most importantly obviously my beautiful wife who our journey is included in this book so if you are one of the lovely females that are out there and that would say maybe this book isn't for me it absolutely is once again and it's not a combat book it is a journey of leadership and at its heart and soul it is a love story and my wife never batted an eye on this journey and this book is dedicated to her and my kids whose love brought me home so big shout out to them and a big shout out to both you guys thank you for having me on and forget it out there and we need more leadership out there and you guys are putting it out there so it's awesome brother thanks for coming on and obviously thanks for your service to our country thanks for what you did for the teams and thanks for what you're continuing to do right now you've sacrificed a lot and you're still out there every day grinding and making things happen thanks for doing that and man overcome and of course of thanks to all our military personnel that are standing watch around the world to protect our freedoms and utmost appreciation for those wounded warriors like Jay who continue to sacrifice bravely every day for the freedoms that we all enjoy and also thank you to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs correctional officers Border Patrol's all the first responders out there who stand watch on the home front to keep us all safe and to everyone else out there that's listening there really are no excuses there none men like Jay Redman proved that men like Ryan job prove that without question so don't allow yourself to fall short don't allow yourself to give anything less than everything you've got to take the fight to the enemy whoever and whatever that enemy might be do what you're supposed to do be who you're supposed to be by going out there every day and getting after it then until next time this is Jason Redman and Beco and Jocko

Channel: Jocko Podcast

Views: 530,105

Keywords: Discipline, freedom, military, extreme ownership, leadership, advice, jocko willink, echelon front, navy seal, jocko podcast, excerpt, echo charles, leader, lead, win, jocko store, trident, jason redman, book, author, ranger school, wounded

Id: MAo0wz91lt8

Length: 183min 39sec (11019 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 06 2019