Jocko Podcast 77 with Roger Hayden: War Stories. Mental Toughness and Clever Tactics

the names and the stories in this episode have been omitted to protect the privacy of the individuals involved this is Jocko podcast number 77 with echo Charles and me Jocko Willing good evening echo good evening and tonight we welcome back to the show retired Chief Warrant Officer Rodger Hayden and if you don't know who Rodger Hayden is then just stop right now and go back to episode 37 of this podcast and you can listen to Roger came on for a short period time we had some time constraints on the first time that Roger came on but he's one of the men on which the reputation of the SEAL Teams is built started off as a frogman member of the underwater demolition teams and deployed to Vietnam with underwater demolition team 12 and then came back and checked into SEAL team one where he deployed again two times to Vietnam and then spent 30 years in the SEAL Teams and then as a civilian has another how many years 20 in other so we're just looking to the solid 50 years of service to Naval Special Warfare the SEAL Teams so like I said Rogers been on before now one real quick story to kind of give a little background as to Rogers attitude about things and so I was on and I told this part of the story last time we were on a ship we were we were having our our operation already this exercise was being graded called an o re and the person that's grating it is Roger Aden sir you know the young seal platoons were getting graded and making sure that we know what we're doing and at this point Roger is a Warrant Officer so he's a commissioned officer and he's out on the ship with us going you know watching how we're planning and seeing how we're preparing our gear and making sure that we're we know what we're doing like I said and as a commissioned officer you're supposed to be eating in what's called the ward room with the rest of the officers so you know the military has officers and they have enlisted guys and the officers are so the managers and the enlisted guys are the workers and as an officer on a ship on a navy ship you have something called a ward room which is nice to have it's just a little it's a smell you add a little level up it's pretty darn nice in the ward room I've eaten in both the ward room and on the mess decks and the ward room you know you have real civil and there's actually people serving you so the ward room is kind of nice well Roger as a Warrant Officer is you know permitted or authorized or supposed to eat with the rest of the officers was supposed to go get that good treatment and Roger didn't want to eat with the officers he wanted to eat with the chief so then the middle management of the of the Navy is the chief the chief petty officers and there's Chiefs senior Chiefs and master chiefs and they're like the backbone of the Navy they have the tactical knowledge and the SEAL Teams and so Roger instead of wanting is that our eating with the officers he wanted to eat with the Chiefs and before he was a Warrant Officer what were you a senior chief before you were worn off certainly masters off Master Chief so he was a hot idea Master Chief before he became a Warrant Officer and so he started eating the Chiefs mess with all the Chiefs well some of the Chiefs on the ship they didn't like having an officer you know I don't want this officer here this is our territory right this is our area again you know we can't why is this officer coming in here and so my platoon chief at the time was actually friends with with Roger but you know he was the guy that was getting had really building relationships for the Chiefs on the ship and all that stuff and so they knew him and they and he was a senior chief and they pulled him aside they said hey you know hey senior chief you know it's kind of we got this warrant officers to see why is he coming in he's not shouldn't be coming in here he's nice Cody needs Cody up the ward room with the rest of the officers this is the Chiefs mess he doesn't belong in here and so my chief was like listening to him oh okay oh I'm not sure why you feel that way but this goes on for a couple days and finally my platoon chief and I wasn't there for this but I got told the story and my platoon chief was a guy from this Souths and he had a great accent and talked in a very distinct manner and so so they get into much I think it was lunch they roll into the the Chiefs mess for luncheon Warrant Officer Hayden comes in and he's standing in there and he's getting a couple looks from people and finally my platoon chief stands up and says uh can I ask everyone in here a question real quick and they go okay you know what what he says well this here is Warrant Officer Roger Hayden member of the underwater demolition teams member of the SEAL team served three tours in Vietnam highly decorated including a Purple Heart for being wounded and he was a master chief before he got commissioned and he wants to eat with us in the Chiefs mess does anyone here have a problem with that and of course no one did nothing but crickets and so Roger Hayden eats with Roger Hayden want to hit you so Roger welcome to show once again thanks for coming back and the last time we were time constraint and you said you've come back so here you are appreciate you coming back on it's my pleasure thank you and like I said anybody that wants to get the full background you know listen to podcast number thirty-seven and he talks a little bit about how you grew up but I had a question when you joined so you came in and your dad was UDT which is awesome and then when you joined the Navy in 1965 did you know you were going to Vietnam was the war big enough yet cuz we had this guy on last time captain Charlie plumb and he went to the Naval Academy and he he said he graduated from the Naval Academy I think in 1965 as well but he said he never heard he never heard the word Vietnam one time while he was going to Naval Academy it wasn't until he graduated that the war escalated and all of a sudden they realized what he was going through flight training that yeah you're going to Vietnam but when you joined in 65 did you know I mean were you thinking yeah I'm definitely gonna go to war and go to Vietnam yeah putting much because I'd have been drafted in the army and I knew the army is going to Vietnam so I figured I knew I wanted to go on the Navy and into utt my dad never talked about it much but uh you know when I was a younger I watched the movies of the Marines attacking and beachheads and getting mowed down you know Rangers taking heavies and stuff and then I saw the bridge of the River Kwai and the Guns of Navarone and I figured yeah if you're going to fight if I can outfit you want to find my sneak around a little bit more so yeah I did I did fact as soon as I got in to the Navy I I took the screening test and all that stuff and you know before I even went to know right after when I was at radium in school I was a rating winner so do it that was a twenty two week long school and that's what I did is I work and get all that stuff and did the screen test and you know they wanted me to go to rota or some other Navy insulation because I didn't do too bad in Radium school I wasn't the number one guy but and I went now I'm going to go to you TT and so and if you went to what up that you yeah they we our class our class was a certain up for about six months so they stuck me on the USS Paul Revere 32nd Street waiting for you GT training and I was a designated seaman back in the day a designated seaman was pretty good wasn't like it is now and I figured I'd working the Radio Shack or something like that well as soon as they checked the board they put me mess cook and I was down accelerating when I went down there there were two other guys that were waiting for a 22 that were in the scullery so we sat there and did that for six months and got off the ship and went next door across the bay there to training yeah that's something the Navy it's if you're a new guy everyone talks about how new guys get treated wherever you are as a military but in the Navy when you go to show up to a ship you doesn't matter you have to work in the in the scullery which is washing dishes what is it a 90 day stint you got to do in the out pretty yeah pretty much ninety days uh and and you only don't do that if you're an e4 debuff right and we did I did employment where we had a guy that was Annie SEO but he's an e3 and you know he was saying hey wait how am I going to get out of this you know doing the skullery duty and we're like you're not that's the rules you know you're gonna go do it you can do it I was a senior Keith two of us a guy named real good friend of mine we couldn't get a flight back so they put us on an Arg to float back here to San Diego and we kept all of our guys from then the nest cook Network seaman that's where he just went we got stuff to do we're doing training and they haven't got time to do that oh we kept them out of course I was a senior Chiefs in and so so we had a little pull yeah plus they cover the boat he really liked us a lot and you know they M the CMC and he was a PBR Vietnam guys oh really long really well yeah yeah well and actually this kid ended up making e4 luckily before we went on deployments care about that but I really feel did bringing the supplies and stuff like that you know because it was a good workout yeah yeah I forget what they call that unwrapped unwrapped now we did that do ya we're actually when I was on my first deployment I deployed to Guam and you know we just get whatever he wanted I was 21 years old it was completely insane you got all this per diem money you felt like the richest you will never mind felt like you were the richest guy you ever met I mean you never made any money when you're in 16 17 years old you get in the SEAL Teams you're getting all this money and then they go overseas and they're giving you per diem and so you're the richest dude in the world you have very limited responsibilities because you're a new guy in a seal platoon so what do you do just get crazy and get after it and you know you're doing whatever you want and then my next deployment was on a ship and we pull into the first port and they say you know he fallen below Liberty expires at 10 o'clock and I was like oh yeah whatever you know I'm a seal they're like no actually you'll be back on the ship at 10 o'clock and there was no way around it you know what there was ways around it we found ways around you know the way around it was I put my PT gear in a backpack and then go off the ship to go out whatever and then hang out all night until five o'clock in the morning and I put my PT gear back on I grunt get it so I going to walk up the bow whatever I was coming back again I was just out for a run got my rock on so there was ways sure there's ways to make it happen so speaking of guys from from when you were going through training was there guys when you're going through buds training was there Korea Korean vet you TT guys in there when world war two was it just Vietnam guys of early anand our instructors yeah older World War two guys it was one guy named Tom Demming Tom great big tall guy who cut and and he was a world war two unique let me tell you the story on that guy so we're out uh we just get to thank committee the last part of the training you know third phase you know so we're all lined up there we just got off we went out there on an LCU you know with all of our demo enamel and all that other crap we just mustered out there and this guy comes walking up great big tall guy rolled what was I in 1918 you don't mean he looked probably like you do or I do we thought it was an old guy he look I yeah but he looks at us he starts talking you know he goes goddamnit I'm the I'm your demo instructor and keeps talking he says that'll brook no bullshit on the ranges you know we're kind of just looking at him like what the hell he gets himself worked up a little bit and he goes matter of fact anybody that screws up would just go out behind the shitter and get it scored away you know and work still looking he talks a little bit more and gets himself all excited and shit and he goes matter-of-fact anybody wants a guy behind the shitter right now we'll go you know and if we just look at welcome to find out later on was in the 82nd airborne and jumped into Norman called got captured escaped on and on then he was in the Korean War two that was one of our instructors almost all of them there were in the Korean War you know pretty much but uh and we had another guy and on his jacket he wore yadda UDT instructor and the other side was God you know he was he was a hook-nosed Indian Apache and he was a badass dude man that's some great guys and now most of the instructors yeah were in summer Vietnam guys you know like had this one blue eyed guy he was I can't think his name right now either but he was on vacation was paddling up north in the Columbia River sup no not that North the East Coast I deny his key was on an excursion with some other people on his canoe tipped over and he it was real cold and she had and he was trying to swim a couple in the shorten shit and just just went out but this guy would run behind you and you of course we didn't have a lot of hair but what we had to stood up you know and you turn and look and they were he was just staring at she had these blue eyes you know I'll think it was naming a minute real good guy though and it there must have been because blood was pretty regimented now but they must hadn't no it was it was definitely less regimented when I went through for sure they must have been completely just like no rules when you went through you know we this guy during hell week he had what they called the swimmer line and like to say we're on the base I'd remind you we're in training in January started 3 January some colder than God you know what he would do is will he'd have us hook into what we call the flutter board line you know like you when you do recon as the guys hold on the line you move down the line and stuff and he'd send us all out and he'll there's about fucked about 60 of us excuse me that's about XD that's what we did send us out and we had to be in a straight line if we weren't it bring us all back and line us all up again and we weren't straight so he sent us out again brought us all back in and we're freezing the guys are almost getting hypothermia because we're not or just in a ke pocket not you know regular utilities that you were for training yeah so he sent us out again the third time and like if you're on the bitter end line your food you then he brought us back in he goes wow goddamn I guess it still wasn't very you guys still weren't in a straight line and we mean we're gonna have to send you out again all the way down the line all you heard was click click click click click click click click we just looked at him well alright we got other things to do that was it we were done and everybody had lost a whole class that was so cold if you've always if you don't know California and you think California's like they watch the old TV show you think the water's all warm it's not warm it's not one especially in January yes January 3rd it's not going to be warm and and you were saying you guys were swimming like crazy going through that because you knew that you're going to UDT and so you're a frog man that's a to be entering for not seals so we did a lot more water work and you guys did going to buds because we didn't have the seal portion when we got that but after we made our deployment came back went and seal team then you went into CAD razor did you get any land warfare at all and but oh yeah I loved it it was normalizing yeah basic stuff and little immediate IEDs but immediate action goes not much it was like our last op that we had I think I told you this and uh thank you many was we did swimmer Scouts in on the other side of a rock formation we called birdshit Rock and got the island they gave us off a 40-pound haversacks and we went from there all the way 23 miles of the island we blew up something walking yeah okay so you humped 23 miles and swam over the beach yeah and then came back and attacked the camp that was our last op nein that's a that's a crappy patrol two dozen tactus yeah I know that that's a no I was small I was thought it was pretty smart see so I wore a kind of a wetsuit what do you call that the small one you know like a wetsuit on top and because I you know so I wouldn't freeze to death come in and actually this was April almost the end of April and it was still cold out of saying committee you know we swam in and I humped with that thing on all the way up there and it got sunny and warm I almost friggin died by the time my back you could peel it off me like this you know yeah there's no good there's no good way to do it there's like no good way to handle coming over the beach it's not going to be convenient you're not going to be comfortable that's one of the things that makes in my opinion that's one of the things that makes the SEAL team the guys missile team is really good is that we just have to deal with the water and as soon as you're deal in the water like you just said there's no easy way to do that it's like you're going to be there be freezing in the water or gonna be sweating on land or you're going to be too hot or no I see you're not you're gonna be okay in the on the on the land it you're just screwed is what I'm saying and not to mention your weapons your weapons all get your radios all get jacked up your your weapons all get jacked up your gear gets all jacked up you got sand in your boots there's no good way to deal with it and on top of that the communications like you're in the water you can't talk to people you can't there's nobody radios aren't work and it just everything sucks and so when we were do off dry it just seems like it's so easy to do and I think that's one big thing that separates it doesn't separate us but it's one of the things that makes us good that we have to deal with the water and we deal with it our whole bottom line is you should never bring a boat to shore you always swim in yep that's what we do you know just like swimmer Scouts the whole nine yards yep that's the bottom line was a chief that's pretty hard on that stuff we never brought the boats ashore yeah you know we we did the same thing when we were in the article tune we never brought the boats in because there's a there's a 10 15 maybe 20 percent chance that you're going to flip the boat you're going to lose a boat something's going to happen to boat and then you're screwed now you got a boat washing up against the shore and you got to deal with it it's big no we always it's a big it's a big target there for sure for sure like an in Desert Storm you know we inserted those Kuwait ease the officer I won't mention any names but wanted to bring both the boats in you know and into quate and let the quiddity guys off and I went nice keep at least if you're going to do that keep one boat back you if you keep another boat and sure because they can give covering fire you know yeah and then if they have to any and you know you can be seen I don't mean if that's a big target you know to me you just don't do that you know know that that's there's so many things you got to figure out what the water and when you when you guilt was I mean that's why when we were in Iraq and we rarely did boat ops we did some in in the river but you just don't either on footage and everything is so much easier it's crazy it's crazy the you get so you get done with training saenko two-mile 1967 you get done with training and you check into UDT 12 and you didn't really know too much about the same things I guess no one at that time knew much about this early not much at all and you were saying on that first podcast that we did that the platoons were really formed up yet you kind of showed up at UDT and your kids it's it's kind of a loose situation but you do do a workup so once we start working up and it was regimented you know you knew how to do but we had a while they had just come back and relieved uvt 11 and just deployed and then 12 came back and you have a kind of a stand down move about a month or two oh so we'll show that for ya okay because it's a nine-month deployment for you TTS so you have a lot of six months work up and then you have three months for the guys going leave like that we came I came in just at that time so it was really kind of like we'd go up and do what they call silver slippers up at Pendleton when the Marines are doing piteous landings and we'd be the lifeguards and stuff like that you don't need until we start forming up for the hard work and then Augusta got pretty good what did you guys do was that when a hardcore about PT back then oh yeah would you guys do teen pts yep platoons our team team the whole team yep and what every every everyday was it the same was it flutter kicks push-ups yeah I'll just your basic PT in fact I didn't start lifting weights until said I was in about 15 years maybe 16 17 years because you do Old Course swimming all the PT we had and everything we were in really good shape you know I mean and you didn't see a lot of the guys in the gym lifting heavy and stuffs I came on later on then also which I changed was later on was a chief and senior chief and stuff and even now not as an LPL we still did platoon PT every morning but we do it every other day then let the guys go off and do their running to do their PT of weightlifting and stuff like that no work out well you know you can change even though I thought PT in the morning first thing is the best to do yeah especially when we were su V can I have two guys would be throwing up and shuffling MPT yeah I always liked least at team one when I got the team one there was that that team PT we did every day and team two is the same thing but you know I'll tell you once the war started there's a lot less focus on PT and it just was well I'm saying it's on where you are too chuckle you never to go for long runs and shit we're in a rock in jail yeah we'd run around Mason's but did you guys have a my my question is the did you take weights with you did you have a workout places up yet we deployed and actually once one team shows up somewhere on deployment but they all bring a bunch of gear yeah and and there's enough to do it get it done and then other teams they don't have to bring everything but they'll bring more stuff and eventually you know whatever compound hearing is pretty nice if you go to that same calm down yeah and and I was bribe brought mats for for jiu-jitsu I'd make a little jujitsu area so I could total course so I could still train and get the boys training and you know what's fighters like you were talking about its we have some of this stuff stays if you're talking about walking around in UDT shorts and coral boots and unfortunately nudity shorts I don't think guys wear I don't think they get issued him anymore but when I got the team one we absolutely got issued DDT choice and that's work that was our uniform and we got issued coral booties those old clay coral booties and I didn't realize you know that's what you guys want I mean let somebody thing yeah probably been issued for I don't know II went outta town you see guys with coral advising their Rolex watch and stuff you know to me he can pick out a team kinda harsh II yeah I was uh I was I looked I looked up Coral booties and I was just saying if anybody makes them any more they're hard to get their on eBay you got to buy a pair of ebay you got to be lucky if they have your size I'm going to go through my gear and see if I still have my coral booties but and then you did do a legit workup though where you did all your hydro recon oh yeah well recons like up the coast by Pendleton we drug this one rocket looking thing in up over these fucking mountains and put it in Lake and stuff like that and then we swam across the wow did we flip no we didn't right there at the channel and it goes out and have those old gun emplacements it wet it with tackles and I had them set up a booby traps and stuff so we'd go across and work her way up and shit like that always stuff yeah in UDT it was it wasn't bad it was good training I mean but it wasn't you know just like a story I told you it was during the 67 68 Ted we're in donk am on the a scary and that's where who I was was UDT and there were about 17 of us on there we're doing that dark thing later on getting that a little bit more but that's when we worked with the 9th inventory and stuff and uh anyway had a seal platoon in Mito which wasn't too too far away but it was right in the town why these coasts would have a would have a their place in a town I'd never know because anytime you left her when any work you know I'm saying that you can be picked out but anyway so they were almost getting over an but they were on the tallest building that a57 quarters rifle and stuff anyway sent a call-out hey we need help number 17 of us you know on the ice carry EDT guys we wanted to go in and rescue them and save them and our officer just a great guy lieutenant said now you ain't going anywhere we're so close you got in there how a Coptic we're not going to go we just want to join help me out you know people are incarcerated oh yeah you know they're seals but the NDT guys so anyway so um we didn't do that and I got back in deployment when the SEAL team went to the Kadri and I know guys those guys by the way they didn't get overrun no they they brought along they were coming up the stairways never throwing grenades down that and when stuff like that and finally the Arve and the u.s. came in and took me go back over it was doing a 67 68 to go bad but anyway so when I got back and I went through Kadri and stuff I found out you know hey we weren't ready for this we didn't know any immediate action drills well not a lot not a time if not you know pounded in your head where we'd automatically think about him you know any urban environment whatsoever fiance plus we were in urban and that was urban would add our asses handed to me yeah that was we didn't know we were fighters would have fought but you know figure those guys in me told the VC and stuff there they had their shit together that was their talent stuff you know me with a yeah you know more about the urban stuff than I do because I never fought urban you know we hit who which is and stuff like that but we never swept through we did one village one time but it was you know it was good you know I mean yeah and Zoey when you deploy to with UDT did you guys ride a ship over there do you fly over there how'd you get to Vietnam we flew over to Subic Bay and like I said that's where we were at that's like you went to Guam well sue because our place okay and then they would would fly over to we had different debts that we had in Vietnam like in Danang Ned camped in Shaw and from the Nang you'd work up and round Phu Bai wake when creed uncle the northern part of the area and stuff you know and then we got on the dye chinko and I don't know if we picked the duchenko up at Subic or not we might have you know when we did olden Beatrice ons and then the next day I went to was down in dong town on me and you go back to Subic in-between at all oh yeah oh really and we'd be there for about a month and or three weeks and so we had attack we deploy from Subic out to vietnam do operations for a month and go back three months Oh every month we got three months at a time yeah although it's a nine month deployment yeah so yeah we my three debts were Danang and on the dye chinko and then down in downtown when I was in unity that was three months and each places and first of all the on the last one you thought talked about doing 130 miles worth of beach mean I was about 120 I think you I was a lot on at ten mij was three months but you know you were kind of talking about it like oh you know we were doing this recon but that was you you were reconning beaches in north vietnam you know south south vietnam and was there any resistance were you guys in jeopardy of getting rolled up or was it more of like almost an admin thing or was it somewhere in between oh we we always had these the Marines or the Arvin which was the South Vietnamese army they would screen put screens out when we do the beaches to cover us in case we got hit with anything right because they were nobody knew what was really on the beaches and stuff but if the Marines are in the area they attend a patrol and they'd worked the back backyard and stuff as we're doing our recon the one I've told you I we got hit was we didn't have any armored army or Marines so we sent two of our guys in the back to kind of check things out as we're doing a recon and that's what we got cotton had almost gotten that l-shaped ambush and what happened was as we were coming down the beach and we had the guys out and I was a good talker first I was out front with another guy and I had a pair of agency UT keys on coral booties and my super slate and I was writing The Bachelor information but so everyone knows what we're talking about when you're going to land people on beaches or if you're potentially going to land people on beaches you have to do a reconnaissance of the beach but not just of the beach itself but up the water and how deep the water is and make sure there's no obstacles in there and so the people that did this since World War two was the underwater demolition teams so that's what we're talking about the way you do it is you have a literally you have a line a big rope it's small it's more like a line than it is rope but that stretches from the beach from a couple guys on the beach called the beach party all the way out to a boat a small little rubber boat well sometimes yeah and then that was an IPS we hooked it to it's about 30 feet it has knots where you know each pair is going to be holding on to and you mark take the sounding then you as you went to the next sounding which is 25 yards down the beach and on the b-side be holding up these markers so that you could get yourself on them you'd be definitely doing down until you got to that point again then you take your sound again then you come back and make a hydrographic chart so there's guys on the beach that are holding for what we call range markers and they said what is that like 10 yards apart look at one guy in the front one guy in the back and they're looking at a compass so that they're making sure that they're lined up so that lines up this whole line so it's this it's this kind of complicated and it seems like an administrative thing but you got to do it otherwise you know you get a situation where the Marines come into land and they hit up like they do yeah like they did in Tarawa and they you know big they hit a reef and then they dropped the ramps the guys get out and they didn't know that that reef was only ten feet long it's two feet deep but now on the other side of the reefster guys going into ten twelve fifteen feet of water and drowned so that's why you have to actually be fairly precise or at least as precise as you can be when you're taking these when you're doing this hydrographic reconnaissance you know you have the back shore party you know the two guys there I have the officer and a couple other guys picking up the steaks put mistakes out and that's usually katara first job you're way out ahead of everybody else taking the bachelor information so when you come back and do your under graphic chart you know you can lay it out exactly then you have to do it Leroy I was a photographer I know all the kids so which I hate it because you had to man make hand draw the maps your hand drawn that and those those are those charts that you draw you're going to present those are going to get presented to you know the the Navy and they're going to use those charts to conduct this landing so like I said they got to be good got to be good quality yeah anyway so the other two guys are walking along and we were doing or beach reconnaissance and everything well they had an l-shaped ambush on us and they had a spider hole back here with a couple guys that once we got hit and if anybody ran back these guys that holds them down why are two guys hit those two guys nice spider hole and opened up on him which made them open up on the sooner so we all leapfrog back down the beach really great guy i meter charge everything was perfect we grabbed him to the line the boat IDs took off and you know 9 or 9 and a half horsepower engine didn't go real fast you know then we had a Coast Guard Cutter out there they started lobbing in Willie Peter on him but we didn't know it was them and some of it landed pretty close to us we thought that was them do we not trying to hit us and we got out far enough in our PL that we finally got to and got on Appeals uh you know the boat that the that we inserted off of him stuff and they picked us up in the guy and was shooting his 50 and stuff but what was really neat was income these two jets oh and they napalm the whole beach that was that was kind of cool that's when I told you when I got back to the boat I said screw this naked warrior shift yeah jockeys are you're in a pair of UDT ZV coral booties or any that's like what reefs workers a little they're like they're like Chuck Converse Chuck Taylors yeah a little bit leaner you have the split no no it was they're like yeah it's like color coral would so you could walk on Coral yeah yeah get cut with it like hold you down there that big thing no no they were like they were like they were canvas and they had a kind of a real thick rubberized bottom on it today yeah they were good and I had an m79 so I'm shooting that thing as I'm running back and that's the only weapon you had is it yes all I had yeah that your your slate could draw on and collect back short semester yeah that was kind of exciting and with that before you was that was that recon before you work with a 9th Infantry yeah yeah okay I went from there from the dye Schenkel down to dong Tam and work with a 9th infantry and the the 9th infantry man so this stuff I was looking about you know a lot the 9th in securing what they did and so just first of all the 9th infantry is the is the unit that the fictional character Forest Gump was supposed to be attached to which is why in the movies working by the water and all that stuff I imagine that's what they that's why they that the 9th infantry in Vietnam had 10 Medal of Honor awarded to soldiers and 3 sailors so they were working in conjunction very closely with the brown-water Navy which again to pull a quote from the last time you you were on Roger you're like saying that job as being brown-water Navy was just vicious John I wish John and general Westmoreland said that the 9th Infantry Division and the mobile riverine forces saved the Delta region from falling to the North Vietnamese during during Tet that could have been I mean I didn't I wasn't on land with them don't know everything they did remember I was a second class in and we got we were on the ass the ass carryin been a wall as reconnaissance guys with the asker indented when they were APD's what's that amphibious some some kind of an amphibious ship yeah both homework big ones and troop ships well data troops I think the a scary was a tube ship I'm not sure it could have been the Benoit - but they were pretty good-sized ships and they were right at on the who right at Don cam which was the Dong Tamworth had a big army base and a Navy base and late my third trip to Vietnam I went back there was a seal and it was a same same place of the same area so when you how did you guys get linked up with the 9th Infantry well we that's who we're doing the reconnaissance for to see if they could go up the canals and up the rivers you know and see what the death was so they could bring the brown water Navy out there that the troop carriers and stuff like that for the 9th Infantry and they didn't know what the depth of some of the places they were going to go in so they dropped us off on these we call them the darts they were like a jet ski right except you didn't sit up on me laid down on them use your feet to guide them and they had a 355 degree camera and a fathometer and they would take two of us up drop us off and we'd come down and do the reconnaissance I mean take soundings and pictures of gnomes point like a pagoda or another canal coming in or something you know we'd come back we'd do a chart and we'd give it to them and that's what they used those charts to go up and do their impervious landings and if anybody could only go up those down those things maybe once or twice then you didn't do it again because they'd be waiting for you so when we weren't doing that which you can only do so many of them and we started writing with the 9th infantry as their demo guys and and so you would would you have already seen it because you do the dart mission and then you'd come back and then they'd come up with their plan and then they'd say okay we're going to go up that River that you just came down and so you'd be from we would you be familiar with it now no they took us we went up to four corners in the places that we'd never been okay that was deep enough for him to go up and stuff but uh they might have I don't know you know that would have been John oldish my ot that would have probably been in on the planning when they were going to go in some and talk about our charts and sir I know remember I just a booger-eater just one of the guys in the darts you know and and but then they said okay we're going to need you over the log I know you were saying on the last podcast that they had these log dams that oh yeah they'd put dams across logs and the stop the boats up and just different obstacles and shit or bunkers along and now we'd go in and blow up the bunkers or brought the log dams you know if they had them and that's what I said they first put us on what they called an alpha boat which was the lead boat and they had one of the rare and one of the front and what would they look like um not I don't have a picture over I can show you that I actually I anybody looking looks up on the night inventory they'll be able to see yeah anyway the Alpha boat we're on one of those and that's the one I told you we got sunk on because of e-40 rock and hit us fighting the exhaust and things started going down and we went ashore if it been a little bit higher to hit all those stacks of c4 we had so but and then they started putting us in about the 3rd or 4th boat back that's because they didn't want this big demo yeah we did in the front alcoho yeah that makes sense pretty much ended that one out so your boat gets hit with a rocket and it starts sinking and in the was it like achi front of the boat I was could have been I just know her first logic so yeah and they ran us up didn't start sinking down and we got off their little perimeter and then the a zipper bolt came up and just holds everything down and we swam over the simple Bolton got off the Zippo boat it's so named because after the Zippo lighter because as a flame thrower yes right directly out of I I know I popped this stuff off like people know what it is it hadn't been there to see it but I mean it came zipping up and then we swam over to it and we got on it and got out of it and he got everyone out of there was yeah nobody got hurt or killed on that just that b40 rocket they started opening up at our the boats opened up to and they they had 50s you know Jesus Christ 20 what did you try and salvage and he's a demo just leave it well actually would you blow it we were going to come back and do that but they decided to have you OD do it so he went back and blew the boat up and all that crap so yeah because it was just partly out of the water and stuff but they'd be on pista software underwater demolition was like you know WTF you know yeah that's what we do really well the UD guys I guess they didn't have a lot to do so they sent them down there I don't know for his army or Navy EOD but no no it's always good to blow things up that's one oh yeah my first deployment to Iraq we didn't blow very much up and when I went to my second deployment to Iraq I kind of had the attitude as if we had the opportunity to blow something up we were going to blow it up seems like the smart thing to do they never take it apart hip in place and load and play and that one you know on the last podcast you were talking about that one operation that you went on and you it was basically a giant ambush against the whatever seven or eight votes that you guys had that the 9th infantry had and they must have been prepared waiting for you got furred for this group to show up and were they was the enemy that well organized at that point I wouldn't say well organized but you know when you got psyops guys dropping pamphlets in saying you know we may be doing something that's you know all the good guys leave and stuff like that you know psyops had a lot to play with that or the choppers going around with her speakers and you know to me yeah so yeah that particular when there was another group of boats that went up ahead of us dropped off their guys the 9th infantry were coming back and we passed him and since we got by him I'd say about 10 minutes and we got opened up on they didn't yet the first group they just hit our group and you know that was a that was a bad day in Dodge City but it you know got hit really bad but managed to get to the shore and put some of the guys off and stuff and it was I think it was going to be a pincher movement where they came hell fire people because they go up the other guys way off and there were three UDT guys on that group and then there was three of us on the group that when we got hit and your main mission was going to be demo if yeah basically yeah but you know those are those big it's weird it's just like straight up amphibious operations the army conducted you know think about that and the Marines are holding the DMZ yeah yeah you were saying that the Marines were busy upholding the DNA at that time yeah and it kind of blew me away that the 9th Infantry did a good job and they were fighters you know they were out of Washington state of Washington you know and they they were good good tooth yeah um what about another different difference I mean even with the 9th Infantry those guys I mean in UDT you guys are all volunteers and I mean and you've said you would have been drafted had you not joined what did you did you notice any difference between drafted guys and guys that were volunteers didn't really work with that many army guys in the 9th Infantry the only thing I can remember that stands out as I had a 2nd lieutenant come up to me when I was on a riverboat one of the river boats they're about ready to land him and he came up to me with his map and asked me where he was you know and that kind of went that's a second lieutenant she's leading uh you know platoon or squad of guys in you know that kind of you know I'm saying I just don't know I don't know my thought of that was is we were trained and we knew what we were going to do just like in SEAL team and we lean forward and that's what we're going to do you just picked off the street go through basic training and then you you know next thing you know you're up on a hill and Vietnam being over and stuff that's got to be pretty traumatic you know but then again Americans are Americans we fly you know ii mean regardless but i think we were more psychologically set for what we did then you're because of the extra training we had and stuff plus the guys that trained us we're a lot of more vietnam guys and like i said second world war in korean that gives you with the type of job they did that's what we do you got wounded on that mission - yeah right how about did you get wounded just some shrapnel my footing my leg no big thing did you did you take you out of the field for no not at all fact i got up and started shooting along this guy this other guy I thought we had this buddy of ours I think I told us he got hit really bad for slapping on his arms and legs and I calls over to him after I move my fingers and toes and everything realized that we all got blown down and then I went over to him hit him with morphine put it through his collar then the thirty gunner got blown off his gun so I got to start shooting a 30-year me no big thing that's just what you do you know yeah we ran everything so yeah so you check back what I would ask he got blown on the other side of him and calls over to him didn't see my pin to his collar so hits him with another shot of morphine you know yeah in about four or five minutes he kind of setup like this is one to do something but he was he was scoot y'all sir really bad and and you got up and start shooting and stuff and the guys that were down and everything were after I don't thirty ran out of ammo I start shooting 16s and they hand this up 16s a shoot and stuff floating forces hit and then like I said the ramp went down we started going in towards beach to let the guys that want wounded get off and we started taking fire right through the front so I went to one side we went to the other side and I was using m79 to try to suppress fire and stuff and we backed off and we got out of there did you insert any of the army guy yeah about eight or nine of them yeah and how big how many guys got inside of those like a company a company strength yeah not yet smaller company it was eight boats a lot of people about he can put about 25-30 goats here yeah we were here we like I said it was really a weird thing because we're sitting in and everything just our fire going off and we heard number one boats hit we're number four bald you know we're number three number four yeah number two boats hit number three boats hit and I remember I just turned and looked at and said we're fucked and we got hit and what it did is it has a canvas cover and they had all those wire stretchers stacked up and the b40 rocket was heading right towards the the conning tower you know I mean earlier driving and everything but it went low and hit those stretchers and it just went grew you know all that shit went out so did you guys get good medical training I mean obviously knew how to give morphine well UDT yeah it was pretty good but in a SEAL team we had extensive mental medical training factor first Platoon I went over is a we had our first class corpsman probably the best every week he had run a suit seven rather with soggy head wounds or something sucking chest wounds and with the same stuff that you guys did have the mannequins up in the wood and you'd have to run up and treat him and what to do and we learned to give ourselves serum albumin in case the corpsman was hit or something you need to give yourself an ID we did all that stuff yeah all of us carry that with us everybody had certain well bunam which is a blood volume expander keynote I mean just in case you haven't but you TT not so much we need morphine drone use a basics so of the basics and you know pressurize and tourniquets and stuff like that but not not real real good in utt they do a good job with that T Triple C classification ow the factory 84 forgiving his hands or but you can do it combat trauma yeah guys learned that and so they know what to do when somebody gets hit everybody in the patina knows like a decent amount to get the guy stable like told us and protune this is the one on 69 he says yeah I'm the only corpsman year and if I get hit somebody's got to take care of me yeah he wider search good good for him so you get home from that deployment and now like you said you you knew you had enough the naked warrior stuff and you said I want to get a big machine gun but I will say that was one of the best appointments I was on the guys and everything the UDT 12 at that time was comprised of class 40 41 and 42 and summer 43 but everybody knew everybody you know I mean it was real tight and real good and Subic Bay would put along to shame oh sure wish yeah I guess after we've been there for about three weeks you're ready to go to a yeah their debt just to get out there you go to Vietnam to stand right yeah pretty much no I never realized that you guys would go back to you know back to to the day in the middle of deployment that's that's yeah well we would for then you'd head off to your next kid like to say we were there for nine months and each day was about three months you know I mean maybe a little less but we'd have some downtime and see we can then we deal with our next debt which is pretty nice you know nine months is a long time but still you know then actually back in the day CB day was almost worse than Vietnam in some areas because it was almost like the gangsters back in Chicago you had all these different gangs where after each other to shed me when you're just walking down next I thought you almost had to look around the corner to see if you know they were shooting at each other before you walked by and shit it was a was pretty uh kind of like the wild wild west and you said that the whole UDT 12 at that time was made up of all guys from the same like five or six months ago guys that were there - from the other classes but it was a the majority of us that were put into platoons and suffer from class 40:39 maybe the athlete I was ahead of a safe mode a lot of them went out some went to 12 - they just put him 11 before you went to a UDT team right and then yeah a lot of more guys that were you know behind us but remember we only ran two classes a year but no kidding you know two classes a year yeah because 39 was graduated and then we started 40 okay and then we graduated and that's when 41 was starting you know I mean what do they run now like 5 yeah something like that 5 6 it was something like 5 when I went through yeah I think so so you had a good experience with UDT but you still wandering oh yeah I'm glad to go to me and I got him we put in the chit everyone to go to seal team and they yelled at us and said yeah none to get back you know so when we got back we're the first two out of you Takeda CAD Drake that's awesome and I was you know echo and I had a conversation I was talking about how at COP one when I was in training cells tilting when we called ourselves cadre and I didn't really know where that came from but I knew that that was what it was called and we were proud that we are Cod rest but then I was listening to do the podcast that you you came on and you were talking about Cochran you guys actually called a cadre training that's what xqt was yeah was cloudberry yeah guys that taught her were Cogley instructors and that just carried on a Clarion 14 training was different you know once you got in your gut at a sqt or Cadbury then you went to a platoon and he went to platoon turning - and that was still ran by some of the cadre and Licata yeah because we had our own train 71 team one training cells been around that long run it was yeah yeah that was the only team that's sure it wasn't another team it was UDC guys single guys yeah that work up or or the cadre training now you started getting heavy with field craft with I mean oh everything yeah all every ambushes you name it and then we had the element ever we were done and the element River is a lot like Vietnam they actually set up a whole thing there to look like a village they had a little wooden outpost were that you know at the whole nine yard you have to work you'll go down get in and then work your way in and stuff and it was just like Vietnam it was pretty close and that once again the people that are teaching you are F seals that are in cadre now who probably just got back from Vietnam so they got fresh information from the back they are very go to training our training 71 every time a platoon came back they'd pull two or three of the best guys from that platoon and put him into our training so and that was every platoon that came back they did that so he had a crosscut of all the different areas of Vietnam and guys that had been in there that did well not that's who I keep doing good guys like and just some great guys I mean we got good training and I mean there was no bullshit because they knew we knew that what we learned there was going to save our asses in our buddies butts so we got pounded into our heads we did River and stream crossing a lot because you had a lot of rivers and you know small canals well not small canals but pretty good-sized either walked on the run up the other side or you went across them you know like as a 60 gunner I always carried about 3 UD T's with me to help me fold across but I'm just saying you had to judge the curve right so when you went out it would bring you right in where you're supposed to be and stuff like that you know I mean just a extensive training the Alamo rivers not real it's a not a real fast-moving stream but it has a good current and so you learned all that you know you know you learned what you had to have your gear you had like we do a swimming-pool stuff whether 60s is yet to see where we needed to have the flotation and stuff like that you know I mean it was pretty good actually when I went out to Niland we didn't even have the camp out there we had in island itself the town there was a gas station it had about four or five green little green trailers and that's where we stayed at and then they truck us up to where the canal was a huge and stuff a lot of times we'd go up there then we'd run back and stuff you know what I mean and we'd go up to chocolate mountains up to Beall wells and stuff like that for ambushes and just you know I mean we had no camp the window camp their life and siphon what was that sighs I can't remember the cycle right I mean all along the whole area in fact later on or has implications that would be going to talk about and come back some other way and you'd still see holes were forty mike-mike it would into stuff you know from back in the how much how much work were you doing at night oh that's all the only time we worked every Monday we do our media action drills and stuff during the day and stuff but all of our ambushes and all the other field graph that we did and everything was all at night because that's when we worked and that was the that was the known thing it was like yep we're gonna go out at night that's what we do pretty much you know how much did you guys did you guys go out if there was a full moon would you go out less in Vietnam would you go out less if there's a full moon and because you had foliage and stuff you couldn't see that well it was still dark enough you know sometimes in a desert a full moon it's almost like beta oh yeah yeah yeah and what you know you're talking about gear a little bit what you carried and there's all these kind of myths about what guys were doing work in the day and in in Vietnam one of them is blue jeans like everyone wore blue jeans or a lot a lot of guys wore blue jeans which kind of makes sense to me because they're tough right that was the whole reason was the mosquitos you can go through them and if you're in mangroves and stuff it wouldn't tear them and stuff rip stop would tear and if you bend down like you wouldn't you stopped and stuff excuse me each alive right to the RIP stop and stuff so we started wearing the blue jeans and you wanted to get zip up blue jeans not to button up because they also kept leeches bugs if you had to budge button button up ones you were screwed and then sometimes we wore pantyhose underneath that to keep leeches off it but would take the Levi's and put them into our jungle boots and riggers tape them around so you know we did it wouldn't just be hanging down where shit could come up and so because there are a lot of leeches over there no big thing but I mean you just you just learned you know like I say the penny hose that's pretty funny because we were on see folk don't guys would be walking around with pink and blue and yellow pantyhose on stuff and satyrs are giving us kind of some weird looks and shit the cut of funny how about guys going barefoot well we had a couple guys that do that and guys stepped on stuff and injured themselves and that I didn't see that very much at all myself in my platoons maybe other platoons okay yeah yeah that was a big thing but a lot of times we don't walk on trails we walked outside of the trails and there's all kinds of shit in there and you don't want to just be there for it I guarantee you so you get done with that workup and everything how about how about like your your your pig gunner hired stories about guys taken every round out of their belt and lubing every individual round especially stole I heard that about stoner Gunners that they take every round out of their belt and lube every individual round and put it back in there Zach not sure I've never seen that happen and we had four guys that carried the stoner machine gun in my last platoon but I don't know why you'd take him out and put him back in yeah they jammed a lot but that was just a stoner thing we sent our guys to cadillac gage which is who made this door so they could learn all the intricacies and what to do if something happened here I mean the big guns the sexy you didn't have to worry about it that much as long as you took care of that baby it did work for you anytime I ever had a malfunction was operator error you know Oh kind of like having a slide down your arm got Hannah you get a link stuck in there or your human ear you have your do-rag around your neck and it gets caught in circulation I guess just in range you learn you know I don't know who told me one ball one of Vietnam SEALs told me the story that like he had the D yes oh he's a STONER gunner and when he came back he checked in his weapon and he was going and joined another platoon sir went to get a new stoner not a new stoner but one of the stoners out of the armory and he got wind check the stoner out of the armory and are engraved in the buttstock of the stoner it said everybody must get stoned which I always got a good ol bag that could have been I was but that 60 it was just and you developed exactly like my basic load was about 6:30 because we had a hundred thirty round box okay yeah we had China Lake made that goes went right on the side of it and we slung it you know and shot it from the hip but after shooting thousands of rounds from from the hip you get really good I the barrel coordination of exactly where that round was going to go but even regardless you always worked it in because it wasn't a young sound excuse me a point weapon like a m14 you know it was it's an area weapon but still you can get pretty accurate with that son of a bitch and you'd always walk your rounds in because what you know rounds well Shane off could hit a guy just as well as get him right square in his chest or something and I use canteen pouches and carry five cam team canteen pouches around my waist and I put a hundred rounds there and leave about an inch out of that got it and then when I put fire and I knew I was getting low I pop my lid open on my can I had grabbed my thing of my sixty round snap men and dump them in and close it or the lid when it opened up that ridges on the side it would slide right in just dependent you know but what was good about that box is you could be blowing upside down or anything you still have 130 rounds ready to shoot you know I mean that's why we liked it but that's place uh it was a it's a navy experimental place called China Lake and we saw we had them built in for us and they work really well did you use a sling yeah I don't know what we did is we took the big buck plate off put an aircraft but played on and if you noticed in the back you have that round thing that would take up who would cook to see that bring it up and took a hanger and made it down rule like this and I put around the front of the hanger so you could take it off when you Chopra she can hold it down and then you could take it off put it on but you got it fit just right where it was just right exactly where you wanted to do and it worked great you know we were invented fucks man we figured it out anyone like we is on this one boat one time and we saw these 60 guys they were they had 60's on the boats you know they had these big metal containers at the round cylinder in the world what to attend it was a flex tube that went into the 60 and so a couple K bars later we walked off with a couple of those and they were fit perfect in the back of a brick 77 backpack we can put them on held 500 rounds and you had to flex dude that went right into your 60 you had to have a special feed Tory for you know you know it's betrayed the the feet Roy was right on the end of the flex tube so it set right in there perfect so and then if we're doing an off the chopper charge the bunker up he had 500 rounds right there it was kind of neat were the only ones in Vietnam that at that fact we came off choppers one time we're doing parakeet ops I'll tell you about that later and there was a whole bunch army guides and stuff where we landed with the choppers were getting out beating each other on the back and a couple good firefights and shit you know and just and all the quarter light coming up and everything we're all bearded and you know Levi's and all that shit and they're saying goddamn I told you that mercenaries over here was a Mercer than one guy says in all that seals you guys had you guys are the originators of the predator pack pretty much I think I think we were they use them on the boats but not on not out in the field you couldn't the thought I'd have to feed it no it just it fed itself right how's the botany data folder not out nothing it's just group right through there but you got to be careful because if you took that thing off and laid it down and didn't put a nail through the through the Flex part of it all year round had come out so they have this big pile 500 round that's not good you know especially if used in a firefight and stuff trying to put it back in you know I'm just saying just funny but it was I was pretty good me and our guy named to us had those and we fixed them up just just playing looking at I think but you couldn't patrol at night with them on patrol because it would clank-clank he could hear a lot moving that was only if you're actually going off and hitting sub like you say there are three types of ops we'd go into if we hear we're going to take heavies one was a downed pilot and another seal platoon in trouble and a bright light was by like that's a prisoner war going in to hit them get them out but those three ops or the main main three woody wooden two no matter what it you know yeah that's awesome you get so you finish your work up and now you're over till you go your first opponent of Vietnam this kilo platoon yeah so Kela platoon vietnam and you're saying you were doing the first podcast you were saying that he did dart board operations which was have a guy huh cat dark because you guys didn't have good intel you didn't have good support okay we were at a place called noon yam can and it was a vietnamese a firebase out in bf egypt you know and then we're here then down here he had the river and sea full where our other squad was but our squad got put up here that was the one just one squad out there by itself yeah oh dang with the bid vietnamese guys had a fire be sir okay and it was not good intel so you basically would throw a dart at the dartboard and then do what go do an ambush there go set an ambush may just go out and look set up ambush or sup and see what was out patrol yeah and that and you also were inserting primarily on san-pan turn that deployment pretty much as always we about three times we walked out of the fire base and locked back in that's just that doesn't give you a warm and fuzzy you know because change guards and stuff and you come back in all a/c is moving out there and maybe they don't know what the bonafide he is for you coming back in and shit and you don't say that so yeah we didn't do a lot up at noon am can because of that and we only had sand pans we didn't have any of our boats up there none of the mediums or lights or anything so after we'd been up there for about a month I think a month and a half then they brought us maybe two months and then they brought us down the sea float okay then we start doing some good officer the sand pants how big is the sampan how many guys could you fit in it oh four or five so you take champion fam because we were ever yellow today to take you sand pants you could have you ever gotten into a sampan no there it's not a real stable bully Vietnamese are good in them because they're small but you get about five big Americans in there and it's a you have to be real careful and are you rowing it no I mean it's got a little motor on the back and a little like we use that again with this we can put it along with us wasn't it just ourselves now and then and then someone would stay with the boats yeah yeah the gozi and went or they believe I'm going to come back and get us you know but you didn't start working a lot until you got to see flow yeah I mean what kind of officer doing on a sea float now same thing ambushes and going upriver setting up ambushes and that's when I told you I think you know I get a little bit confused sometimes on PBRs and Swift so I'm thinking they were PBRs that were down the seafloor with but they would we'd go up on the PBR and have a Boston Whaler with us and a Boston Whaler could probably hold four or five guys you know plus the guy on the front with a sixty and get the guy driving well with the way we had worked at is we had the whole platoon there one platoon would be going to do something well two guys out the other I mean other one squatted go up and two guys from the other squad luckily got to pick to be the driver sitting up on a thing driving the the Boston later and the other guy in the 60s why everybody else was just looking over the edge like this and didn't get there again it wasn't you didn't get real excited when you were chosen to be the Coxon you know how often would you guys make enemy contact when you guys go out on ambush because I had to be kind of like looking for a needle in a haystack right yeah we got some contact that was the one down at square Bay I told you about when we hit there when I wasn't on that when they hit that junk and then all the mother flavors are definitely and a few other times we got in some some crap that particular that that platoon and that deployment wasn't we didn't do an awful lot we went out a lot get me wrong but we didn't get a lot of firefights and stuff it was my second book to that where we kicked ass today and it sounds like I mean this is sort of classic and you and I were talking about this earlier today if you don't have good Intel that said you know how AM Bush all day without a sea float we didn't have that good event Errol you know like we didn't have a chief of a platoon we had an LPO and no mention of any names but he wasn't real good but we had this other guy that Chief Coroner told I'm not cheap at that Corman it was the first class that he kind of took over everything he had been with the Marines twice ok Vietnam so he was a good hand you don't need that I had a shift together with smart and just a couple funny things happen when it was down the sea floor I told you where that pile of clothes moved and such as head of all you're looking for me we thought we had lost him you know and that was like this chopper comes in and lands to him did one was pretty shot up and door gunner had been hit so they said hey anybody want to be a door gunner we got to go back and pick up some other guys well of course is a corpsman y'all go so he's in unities he throws a flak jacket on the Hillman and takes the door gunner position and they take off and about a half hour later the chopper comes back in and lands shot up even more here he gets off the I mean he gets off the boat tows us helmet down takes it flat shotgun fuck I'll never do that again yeah those we had a this guy Colonel Colonel reader on who was a pilot in Vietnam he flew cobras in Vietnam the second deployment but those guys those pilots in Vietnam the helicopter pilot in Vietnam they did not they knew they were going to take rounds they just went in anyways they were bad at that was the same as our sea wolves and black policeman Cecile's especially were just unbelievable guys you know just uh they were just badass dudes man they and I told you at once or you and I bought that one chopper not all work so kind of pinned down behind this rice dike and we're getting some pretty heavy fire from the tree lines so we're calling for close air support that's the Seawolves you know so we're getting up shooting getting back down by 60 and we're getting kind of low on ammo too except the sea walls we always had a most aging on the sea walls so he could kick it off to us when they came in so the seagulls are coming in we can hear the rotor wobble oh well when the Seawolves weren't doing they were the greatest when they weren't doing a close air support that do psyops they had these great big speakers and so we hear this one sea wolf coming behind us we're still shooting everything also now the clear blue sky a sort of God you hear this we are their gods or Hellfire and we bring you fire and the fucking Rockets one overhead hit the tree line and they either had a fifty or a minigun on one side of the sea wolf and that sea wolf turn like that and just hold it down I think that one had a minigun on the right behind came another see well but when they when we heard that we really everybody just tops you two we look back up like fuck oh it was unreal and that scenario didn't really suppress a fire so then the black bone they add two point seven Rockets and black ponies came in with the five in zoomies when they hint hit the tree line it was blowing shit clip overhead and that pretty much quote still got out of this sealord's came in the rigger Huey's that picked us up and got us out of there that was that was a good awful the the sea Wolf's were the Navy pilots Navy Vietnam Pyle townships that came in supported we're like cobras they were regular yeah they're regular that rocket pods and I think kind of like the black ponies had the 20 millimeter guns in the front and then the five in Zooey's they had the just a rocket pods but they had a 50 on one side and or a minigun on the other side and the most important thing that they had from everything I've heard and from what you're telling me right now is they had balls oh yeah oh yeah there was good they were just come in and we got drunk one night our bar and Seawolves are on the army side that's where they had the thing so we figured he'll look over and visit them and have him drink with us so we jumped in our six by and headed out we were they had the army base here and the Navy base here we lived on the Vietnamese side and had her own home barracks all fortified it was perfect well anyway we got our six pine was heading out went over where the sea wolf guys where we want to drink with us you know we had our 60s little stuff you never knew you know so we get over there and go walking in their compound everything all right boys get up let's drink well I'll see we made them drink with us naked because we were all naked so we're all sitting there drinking beers it makes nakedness em 60s and booze I like where this is going yeah you guys had way much the way more fun in Vietnam oh yeah we are time I'm telling you we weren't we would get back for not do or debrief cleaner weapons and go up and get shit-faced you know those thinker no reader said the same thing he goes he goes yeah you know we'd go out we'd fly we get shot up we'd have to come back and like put the birds in for repair I didn't we'd get drunk yeah and then we go he goes I don't know he really like looked at me he said I don't know how you guys did it without alcohol basically yeah that was a you know went to Desert Storm were over there nine months and no alcohol sup it was okay but it mean to me it was just like yeah this isn't my war you know we really didn't do that much in yeah you know the guy did recons instead from my job and we did that one deception up and when we inserted the Quai tease each other during in minutes outside that they never really gotten to firefighter yet you know yeah now that's that off with a Seawolf that was I'm assuming that was on your second appointment yeah that was the first of your first appointment you know you did what you did but it wasn't as fruitful no I get to meet as the honest-to-god truth coming out of 18 the SEAL team I was ready to hit the deck running and just being like we didn't get the deck running over there and just didn't have the Intel I don't think are as you were saying leadership was all that good and stuff I mean we had one guy the LT what they were doing some shit down in C folk but up where we were we just didn't you couldn't it wasn't that much you could do you would go out and look try to find shit and everything but we didn't have actual Intel yeah that we could react on you know what you found out later that's what you have to have sometimes too I think people spread their forces too thin when you think about it you just take a squad and put them out there in the middle nowhere with no Intel support and you got another squad in some other area with no Intel support you know you might as well bring them together put a couple guys gather Intel and you start making something happen the platoon before us that was there and stuff that that was the tune Mosley has gotten a lot of shit you know hey that's when he got a Medal of Honor and stuff like that and actually my second trip over had been in that platoon here on Amin and Villa told me some stories about they got a lot of shit but that's we were stuck in Union can and just didn't well shit like you can see the u-men force which was at the very southern part of Vietnam and it's just Triple Canopy just I mean it's we were away from that a little bit you know but this whole Vietnamese guy there he had tattoos all over and I guess he had fought with the French against the Viet net Viet Minh you know which was the bad guys fighting the French the same as VC and and we're tuned interpreter we're talking him and I goddamn human force you know it's he says yeah a whole company of French Foreign Legion paratroopers jumped in there and none of them ever came back out and were gone plus that's what I was telling you in my last podcast I did that's where we landed and we're just starting to put our shit away and just loads lands and it's approved visor and a good friend of mine real good friend of mine now and then when that load took off we got to ship mortared out for about two hours and I absolutely told him don't ever come here again yeah so now when you get back you get back you do another workup and well actually got out for a little bit you come back in you side you know that's like when I went to college I had to go I had to get my alt I got my commission I had to go to college and people say would you learn in college and I'd say I learned in college never ever ever ever get out of the teams everybody knows what they do so you get out for a year or something and you come back in and get in your your second platoon getting ready to go to Vietnam mber platoon yes okay as he just passed and what a great guy I mean I was he the platoon commander yes he was the owner he died we LT you know he's a great guy just a great guy man yeah and he just passed here about three weeks ago we went up and Rosecrans and they buried him and stuff but he was a great guy man and that work up that work up did it did must change between your first work up until came in your second one actually when I got out when we came back in I went back to Kadri okay just a you know kind of rush yourself refreshed had been about a year as out you know I mean and just what that's why he didn't keep one if you were gone way over six months or something you went back to Kadri yester even the guys that came from these coasts yes so they know how we worked himself which was good while I was going through Kadri Jerry Fletcher was out there with us platoon and I got to know him and I knew some of the other guys in between so as soon as I got out of Kadri they lost a guy in their platoon and lucky enough I was good enough to get into it so I didn't go through the whole workup with November 2 I just got in it and that's why I Stan you is down it to greenfield they used to have a firing range down there and I was figuring out man might cute sup Mel side you know that's when I actually asked the first that's when I picked up a sixty million this guy we shot at this Korea so log pieces flew off to Korea so log and we set it on fire and I remember looking they look at me it was like we're in exile that was it there are 62 beautiful things but no it's a great thing so this next deployment that you mentioned this on the on the first podcast when you came on about the orders that you got from was it from Mac V SOG is that who you can order scout nav for V nav for yeah and we landed in Saigon and our Lt died we went up to see where we're going to go or what area we're going to work in what province you know and he went up there and they told him well you got the VIN long province which is where dong cam is and stuff and he said his orders were to pacify it the hell was in and we brought it he picked up a whole bunch of money so we can pay our Kit Carson Scouts enough like that we went to dong town well we stopped had been luck first it's about 40 miles away from dong town there was another platoon there Gary Gallagher's platoon and we shows up in her six bodies and stuff and we're kind of rugged looking because we'd been in Saigon for three days and have a good time and shitting comes walking out and he looks at us he goes goddamn you guys look like he'd been here six months already you always a little bedraggled to shit then we went to dong town but we used to go back and forth God was an applet ood George anger they just had some great guys yeah and they were like I said there were our system for tune you know so we'd go and see each other once in a while with the sister platoons to play at the same time no they had been over there for three months okay so was it like a overlap of three months the Antikythera and some of them yeah the two of me go at the same time usually when you got there there was another platoon somewhere around yet rather east coast or west coast course East Coast had two platoons over there so fun tell I'm thinking it was long oh god I'm still trying to think of that name it's right on a river and that's where the East Coast platoon was we never not be that's where was not being and that's where the East Coast put something out there they had the platoon there and they had a platoon of metal that was there two platoons and then we took over when they left we took over the one that dong Mito but we moved to dog town because we didn't want to be right in the middle of a city you know or a big big yellow City though we moved down to dong Tam and then the Navy base didn't want us the army base didn't want to so they put us in the Vietnamese base that split them so there you go yeah that was good we had our boats right there everything was perfect we go to the army base to test fire our weapons is yet and they were doing that all the time anyway so it wasn't it's another thing I wonder how in retail how they test fired their weapons in anyway so what was your op temple-like when you are on the second deployment was that the deployment was a with God but every two to three days cuz you had to gather Intel and stuff like that and and it would get a little break and if we were real bored we'd do what we called parakeet ops and there was this area I don't know if I talked about this in the first podcast but it was a place called the plain of reeds and it was all enemy as lvc and so we'd take off four or five of us in a queue Ian have a Seawolf in front and back of us and we just fly out there start looking go over go over small Hamlet's and villages and if you see vc run around and get shot at they'd land us with sweetu then they'd pick us up we'd go look for some more you know that's when we're bored you know we call them parakeet offs then the when we hit and start spreading around the sea wolf would go off I mean not see what the Sealord which is our Huey and then the Seawolves and start circling looking first quarters and stuff you know it was good we might get in two or three firefights you know yeah I guess yeah that's not that was daytime off you yes you're just running those daytime office and what you will you just look at the map and say hey this is probably no oh yeah the planner reads the whole place a leaky stronghold VC stronghold a lot of VC out there so and then that's when we took a couple of the Austrians with us on that those parakeet outs and stuff in the boom out of the water how they like it did they come back for more oh yeah we other groups come down less than I mean that from do we debt worthy Australian SAS word went out with him and that was pretty pretty unique yeah my sexy and about 500 rounds 120 pound pack and walked around for about eight days I was real happy about that yeah that's no joke it was good they were they're great troops and you know they loved coming down working with us because we got contact and when they you know they're they look for things to see if what they could find they had two types that you had a five man fighting patrol or attend I mean a five man Ricky or a ten man fighting patrol where we went out with him it was a ten man fighting patrol because we were going to go into this area that the Australian armored infantry had taken over this North Ian in the North Vietnamese army base camp and just decimated it well our job was to go see if any the NVA able back into the area or not it was good that's like I said my first podcast is the best reconnaissance guys I've ever ever worked good so they're fighters - yeah they're good good good good troops yeah a lot of some reason a lot of people ask me if you've ever worked with foreign troops everyone want to come kind of wants to know what we think of their countries and their troops you know and you know the Brits and the Aussies you know the SAS or top Jill for sure none of the only ones that went out with us on patrol and I think were in Vietnam we were the only ones that one out of them you know you know it all started out with a couple of SAS guys drinking the bar with a couple our guys and Cooper Pat's and telling tall tales and you know drinking beers and shed next thing you know we have this exchange and it's been ongoing sense yeah always when I was a team one there was always out on SAS guy there yeah Julia did you when you went to good did you get to go to off so I never went though oh you'd love it that's embarrassing shit it's great I always got a always got screwed out of going on I went for five times after Vietnam and Hill there was still guys there that had been to Vietnam with yes you don't mean it was good it was great yeah I I always got screwed for some reason I'd always go well yeah yeah we're going to Australia tell me something will come up when we wouldn't get to go that's because your platoon officer wasn't very well liked or something hey most likely what uh when you say you get contact a lot so you're doing an OP every two three days how often are you guys getting an enemy contact just about every time we went out because we were going out on actionable Intel I don't mean and uh I said I can't think of all of it like that one time I was telling you in another time we hit these two hoochies and guys came out it was like the OK Corral except we won and another time we're doing this recon just looking and that's one guy forgets up on top of this bunker because we couldn't find any entrance around it they may have had a tunnel come into it some learn he's up there I'm staying here in this guy so as a six he's there and we're kind of watching the area for him while he's up there looking around and cue to into tune right by me comes as 1847 rounds and they missed me I don't know how the hell they missed me but then jumps off the the bunker down right beside me was gone yeah the guys over there the guys over there and we hear yelling and we'll shoot the son of a bitch finally we saw where his rounds came in and we start to another time we got pinned down a little bit and we were going to go and hit this check this hospital out and stuff when we got hit pretty hard we had to pull back and now move out that might have been when we got pinned down you know was that when you called him to Seawolves yeah we called them in a few times you know ya know it's interesting because people think that every time you go out you're going to get enemy contact and you could see I mean your first deployment it was rare that you'd get enemy contact the second time it's a lot more often yeah like my first deployment to Iraq we got like a like four or five firefights maybe and they were all pretty like not really a big deal and then when I was a troop commander an ahmadi the platoons were getting into it although almost every not almost everybody a lot of times I mean a majority of times there'd be there be shooting going on you know yeah I might tell you have talked to a lot of guys that were in your platoon in Ramadi and they did follow you to that the hell if they had or they loved him so just letting you know you had a real good impression and you you were outstanding just telling you if that's for my guy and you know talk to the guys on the ground drinking and stuff when your name comes up yeah well they're drunk I guess that's that the Reno I'm just telling you it's like you know you know well those guys were those guys did those guys actually never mind they would they did they did all kinds of stuff that was above way above and beyond the call of duty for sure and got the light you took it to him and that's what that's what you're supposed to do you know yeah it was a the awesome point of awesome deployment with working with awesome guys for sure hell we went out one time and we heard there was this cachet you know so but we did want people to know they were going out there so we got into a refrigerator truck and getting it back to that until they got close to where the cachet was and we went out and dug it up and came back just little things you know right it was a neat up yeah that's uh that it's good stuff when um when you get back from that deployment and that was the last November when was the last fully deployed to Vietnam yeah and you didn't get me you can go back to sue back when you were sealed in did you know that was like no gate there the whole time yeah well you did get two weeks or a week or two weeks I think of R&R and uh I think I went to Hawaii and Thailand 1 times X supports your choice of going to Hawaii from Hawaii so yeah Hawaii ously bad know kind of where don't go into Hawaii and everything is all quiet and peaceful and everything and you just come out of the woods and you know after you've been there for a while you you you kind of want to go back you know I don't know if Ida went to Thailand I probably would have stayed in Thailand still in there now not probably be dead just a lot of people that you go to Thailand and don't come back bangkok makes the hard man humble here until you do the I remember the last time we talked about this blue-on-blue that you guys had was that in November pool - no that was in kilo oh that was in kilo play and that was our no Azhar the officer that was within union candy and it was like to say it was supposed to be a hammer and anvil up it just went wrong yeah and I I'm not sure if he was a stood up to shoot or if he was trying to wave and tell him her adoption anyway he got hit you know killed him so and then we almost had another in November platoon I forgot to mention this so we're hitting this island it's not a big island but it had hooches all along one side so they wanted us to go through check out the huges and we had what we called white mice with us they were Vietnamese Intel guys that could look through things and find out if there's any VC stuff you don't mean something so we lands and were sweeping through it and I had this one white Mike's with me and I had my 60 well the guy that planned this off and thought it was a good idea was our dead golf guy and deck golf was your senior SEAL was at deaf golf and he was kind of in charge of all the other platoons that were spread out and so we did it and he was with us and his interpreter so and we were told everybody stay on the side when we Patrol because anything on the left side is a free-fire zone is right so we're walking along and I'm looking at the woods also I see this flipping through the woods so I bring my 60 up take it off a safe and I'm watching well where the woods were there was a space and another part of woods where I wanted the VC who I thought it was to get out in the space and then a hammer you know open up with my 60 and we were spread out a little bit because everybody was checking different things out as we're going along so I had it off safe I'm just having laid it up on this uh rice rice bag you know with rice on just waiting who comes out but the typical commander the head golf guy I was so fucking pissed I'd have been a new guy I'd open up you know me maybe killed him and think so I told Jerry Fletcher my auntie about it and he never went out with us again because that was crazy he was on the three fires old you don't mean and like you say what if I'd been a brand-new guy or something but I wanted to wait till it got out so I had a clearer picture before I opened up on him yeah I mean even your mindset wasn't even let me confirm this is a bad guy you knew it was a bad guy you're just waiting for the Hangout the bad guy no lutely I wasn't saying hey that might be one of our guys it was a bad guy because we had already briefed heavily everybody stay on this side anybody over there and you see him open up on him you know when I was running training man I I worked those guys they wear that blue and blues all the time in training I mean we would just make stuff so confusing and just put the enemy in the wrong place and get guys confused I wanted them to have blue on blues and training so they realized how easy it is to happen so you get a guy instead of making that decision like all just you know what this part get a good vantage point over here if I just walk over here and they'll know it's me you know it's like no they won't know it's you they'll kill you so yeah it's uh you got a people to understand how confusing it gets out there man it gets confusing does that's that's all your training you're like I was telling you though it saved our butt Vietnam lazar immediate action girls and have them so ingrained into us that it's dark you know exactly where the guy is going to be and what you're going to do whether it's a peel off or whether you're going to the right or left you know I mean ya get now the the fire zone whatever you know I mean yeah but you had to have them and as immediate action drills to me or the key no matter what you do another turbine or I think which I can't really say no it's the same thing it's the same thing at an urban environment you got to have a media I just like to say you have a hoots there and you're going to get the hoots you know we know there's probably bad guys in it and we're coming in what we do is two guys to branch out to the right or left to get anybody from behind the wrestler would go in one guy would turn around look that way the guys that go in and that way they could shoot you know one atw don't mean nobody was down now so hooch was covered and had foliage around it then as we came in one of the guys on the left or go down lay down look behind the other guy be right here at the corner so he could see anybody coming out of window and then we'd have the other guy over here and then we'd go in and hit it but what I'm saying is when we did that it was like that I mean that and that was our immediate action stuff that we did that's how we'd hit a hooch yeah and then when guys went in that switch one swing high one or two along just a you know to check it out then they'd guilty then they'd say clear or we got someone and then whoever was right next to the door facing out because we had her security and didn't know if anything but he was going to come behind you as they bring the guy out like I had my 60 I'd stick my 60 right between his legs and it fall down then I put my safety in his mouth and go he wouldn't say much you know it would take off that you were talking about how the SAS one time you went off show the SAS and they went out do you out there for like 10 days and no one said a single word not a local time if you did say seven you put here right next to the guys or your mouth yeah right next to the zero and talked but normally it was all hand signals but like what you're talking about all the stuff that you just described to do all that stuff without thought everybody knows where to go it's om it's a standard operating procedure it's the immediate action drill and everybody knows exactly what to do and yeah that's just like you get a booby trap or something the smartest thing to do is back away and come in a different way but if you had to keep going you'd feel it with your hand and grab the guy next year behind you and show him where it was then you'd step over it move on a few steps wait till he got over by grabbing the guy behind him and you just keep how often would you guys do that not too often we did one too occasionally but we were kind of lucky we never hit Plus you'd see a tree you'd be able to pick up the signs if you did happen to go on a trail you can see broken branches faced in a certain way or little little sticks point in a certain way or or actually we got landed one time in this rice paddy and we looked after we got off everybody started and all you can see was - dorri signs which a man minefield so we didn't move you know we just call the stoppers back in took us so your your second deployment to Vietnam how many Castle how many caps did no one got killed I know we didn't get anybody hit or killed no one got hit or killed despite getting all those gunfights don't ask me which is one of those things god the frogman yeah we figured you know we're getting to the point that's why we had six-month deployments and not a year or you know whatever because you start getting feeling like you're invulnerable you know but how do we were on the cutting edge and uh we just add the firepower we're better I mean you could add the outs out like that one yeah one that went right by me or something I could have hit me right in the chest no you had too much skill to get hey Joe I got ya what skill that you're lucky I know it's like unfortunately in combat you can do everything right you can still get killed and get all kinds of things wrong and live we did that stay behind ambush that one night I think I told you about that I don't think so okay so but our second op we hadn't Vietnam thought hmm we're going to go and hit this one area here and if nobody's in the little village or anything like that then we're going to do a stay behind ambush and so a squad of us went in and patrolled through through some Willie Peter into hooches and shit like that just kind of caused hate and discontent and then the Sun started going down so soon as it started going down we got in an l-shaped ambush being where rice bags are going this way that way and stuff and then we had the other choppers came in like they were going to pick us up we had other squad on it they got off the chopper ran around and got back in it like we're being extracted right so we sat there and sat there for about 45 minutes almost an hour Nelson's you know these guys come walking down this rice dock with ak-47s and shit and stuff and we opened up on him and you know blew him off the rice Dyke and hidden and then they opened up on us from the treeline hit him a little bit the Seawolves came in did some damage and shit and then the fucking chopper teams in there's only one of them so we all couldn't get on it we landed with two choppers you know so me and another guy radio woman and a STONER guy myself stayed there why that chopper went on cam wasn't too far away come back and picked us up you know my poop was a little tighter tight on that that's a how long about how long were you sit on the ground Oh about another 20 minutes to that loneliness but nobody came into the village after that because we'd with hammered him you know pretty that so that was pretty good that was it bring it up anyway so I'm shooting my 60 he's over here shoot in 40 mike-mike in there's a small stream between us and we got back for drinking beers Pat and Cooper's Dean you know tell them tall tales and she has it says goddamn didn't you see that fucking string around so went right by you on the stream and I says no because I shoot my 60 in the book it was pretty the you know I mean that's a good times over there now that's that's an amazing deployment to do well that was a behind ambush classic yeah I mean just the way you want to do it they knew we were there they thought we had left they came in and we got two summer bitches no and then they always say you know did you shoot a guy yourself well you know when you open up with stoners and sixties you see guys flying off a rice taxes yet you're not sure if it's or 60 that hit em or if it's a STONER or whatever you know so it's only one time I know I hit a guy for a fact is that often that when we came off the choppers and did that old cake or L think oh yeah well then me and a guy another guy went around the before the squad continued moving by we want to check out the back you know so he and I goes walk around and he had a car he was our corpsman and I saw him walk around the edge and fire about three times I stepped by he missed the guy and here's this guy with an ak-47 right about here and I stepped around with my 60 pointing right at it you know and I just flipped him yeah I think we joined up and went kept going and then three guys popped up out of the rice dike and one they started shooting at us we were shooting back but a Seawolf was coming right over us and three rounds went right to the instrument panel Seawolf didn't hit anybody they turn like this my guy had a minigun and just went oh and we just dropped down because there was fucking rounds going everywhere yeah that's that the amount of firefights you guys are getting to take no Cassity yeah we're getting that amazing you know that's amazing and we didn't have a lot of pictures either because we didn't have a professional photographer walking around with it yeah I mean it's a we missed I would say in Ramadi we missed the real like a couple deployments later maybe a year later when guys were going on deployments they had pictures everything because they had helmet cams they had all this stuff and we did it as a matter of fact at that time there was like rules against taking pictures so we don't have a bunch of picture we did we never had both platoons I was in we took one just before we deployed you know the whole platoon and then hardly nothing else after that we wouldn't let photographers close to us who wouldn't let news people even come closer on Vietnamese basically where they couldn't get on it it was perfect and we just yeah we just when I'm did everything and I had a good diamond didn't beat no drums about it you know what I mean it was it was good there's a couple book teams that had a photographer with him that took a lot of pictures and she had a new probably you've probably seen them stuff and you know we didn't yeah and they're still tuned as well for in Iraq there was platoons that gotten from that's one of the reasons why we didn't take pictures because there was platoons that had pictures that got exposed and got released and they wouldn't if there were pictures they should have taken and they got trouble and it but you know not just that they got in trouble but it was bad press bad press for America you know and that's why there was rules is like hey no picture so we don't have a lot of pictures of women we can do a hundred things right and you do one thing wrong and that's what's going to pop up yeah and you do one thing wrong and you take a picture of it and that's in these days you know that pictures going around the world and all in 30 seconds yeah so it's a the debts one thing that has definitely changed and like I said when we were in Ramadi we were just on the like I don't think people were really on social media yet that we everybody had a camera and not everybody you know had a video cam these guys got video cameras now they got helmet cars they got all the stuff and you know some of its good some of its beneficial I mean you're not going to get any better Intel there was a company commander from the first of 506 who was one of the best guys I've ever worked with but he videotaped every time he went out on patrol in a Humvee or or not in Humvee however he was on patrol he filmed the whole thing and he was working in one specific district of Ramadi called the moola district and he would come back and watch those videos and he would just he and I sat there Watson with him one time and he was yeah you see this garbage can over here yeah this this one's a good landmark because it's a different color and then up on this street corner right here is a this this pole is always filled with so many wires it always scares me you know because there's so many wires hanging off and he just had the whole city memorized because he had a camera rolling in his Humvee the whole time and for so for that reason plus when you gather Intel you know you're going into a building and and you got pictures of everything you got if anyone ever goes in that building again you hear - here you go here's one it's laid out so there's some definite benefits to it but yeah there's some real drawbacks as well if you know four people can use that stuff for propaganda against you or if you're videotaping things or you're recording things that are going to make you know the Americans look bad and now you're saying okay you did this well here's what was happening in the situation here's why this happened and here's the context well the contact isn't going to make it onto YouTube the only thing that's going to make it onto YouTube is the thing that makes America love that and that's what's going to so that's getting that's what the reporters are going to kion we got ready yep see we had barn dance files I tell you about that he did mention them yeah barn dance files were this every time you went on an OP and you came back the guy was telling was her Intel guy or first class and we'd fill out these barn dance cards why they call them barn dances I got just the prom' word for whatever word but if they had to who where what wise equipment anything we found out there what fire fights who got into what I don't know what the enemy were using anything that would be good Intel and it's just a 5 by 4 by 5 card but it was really good in every platoon like our de platino we relieved already had their so if we're going back into a specific area that that went into we had it organized y'all would look it up caught up read and see what they hit and what they got and all that stuff and that would be help us out when we were going on with winter we did a briefs and stuff and we do the same thing but every platoon would have these barn dance files of what they did and the areas they went into and stuff and it was pretty good you know that's how we did it you know that we didn't do the camera quarter like they're saying but we anything that we saw that would be of interest of another patrol or another platoon going into that area then we'd let them know you know these abundance files yeah and then like I said when we got to Don Tam then long province what did have split us up into provinces or districts in that province and then we would go out whether Kit Carson Skeletor interpreter and gather Intel from the PSP guys the Chiefs are from the SF that were out in the field and or Rangers that were doing fire bases and stuff like that and bring that back and then we would put it up on our set map and start working you know like we had this one we knew through our our province that this one BCI which is your high level guy they wouldn't transmit communication wise they would bring your orders in and packets you know I'm saying and he would come through the province maybe once a month we're on several all the different information yeah he was handed as of the VC what they want to get the stuff but he had all this stuff we knew he came through there every time but there were three different trails that he used because we've gotten Intel we didn't know which one it was you know so we went out on the one trail did an ambush whack some people and shit like that so we knew who next time he came he wasn't going to do that trail and then we did the same thing on the other trail right so we figured he's going to come down this trail so we set up on him got him he came down that trail and we got him got some good Intel that's beautiful but that was just working with actionable Intel kind figure it out and work in it you know so worked out real good we you on that I've always heard about this OP where they wanted to get this one VCI and they ended up hitting like his his family or some member of his family and then when they went to their feet when they had the funeral they went got the guy but you know I wasn't on that and there's a lot of things that happened and like you say when you're in your platoon that's kind of your world not something I've heard I don't remember hearing about that but I probably was one time in the Tradewinds the bar we used to drink at Coronado were so I'm sure that that was brought up like I used to hit tax collectors and get their Pyaasa from their money and then they would turn turn that into MPC and stuff you know just different things yeah guys we're going to have a nice collector because that's that's a good thing you know I'm I supporting and it clarity and if you had a whole bag full of money well oh well you know I know that's that's awesome that's and it's all another thing that people you know it's all self generated so much of it is self generated like when you're talking about the same thing for us I mean I had an Intel group but my Intel group was seals some Intel seals and some Intel guys and they created all of our Intel and you know our guys fed into it and so we produced our own targets kind of like what you're saying yeah people have this thought that you know that the assault force is sitting there waiting for some command to come down and go hit this target but if the reality is we're making up the targets were figured about ourselves most of the time yeah well I can see the difference from my first platoon or we didn't have anything and my second platoon where we actually worked off of actually actionable Intel that we got it was like night and day I would do it's a whole different world and just like we talked about before we started this you know you got your fine you got your fix and then you got your finish and exploitation of you don't mean death but that were the best world I think on DEA stuff to finish but you can't do the finish if you don't have the fine where you know what to go and hit you know to me and that's why a long time ago we started up that field craft the stuff that we are pro advisors we had a trained side up in queen maca you know we called to advanced training and it was for our food advisors because they would go over there by themselves or with one other American and have about 50 VC whatever that they were in charge of and that proves actually were for when the CIA would could collect Intel but they didn't have a method of going out and hit that you know react on doing the finished part of it so that's when they started the proof program we had her what preventional Prevention recon units that is what they were called proves we compost like to say if I throw out an accurately I know I'm just ladies I'm just so used you know anyway and they would pull select guys to go through this poo training and East Coast guys to and then they would go over and work for any said they be in charge you said VC but you didn't mean that Rex vc x VZ I'm not the active guys that you toys and stuff and decide they want to make money here I mean so more centers is what they were and so they had that training are you hoiding trade does it mean turncoat what is it to hoist a guy that yeah you left the the ulema died or the MBA and went to three shelves in no Asahi holy actually mean no I don't the actual noun of it yeah except but it was they had put him in this camp and like when we went to dong Tim we went to that camp with our interpreter but we just happen to have a special boat guy at the time MST we called a mobile support team not SBU that spoke fluent Vietnamese so we'd bring him with us when our interpreter didn't realize this guy could speak Vietnamese to and then we'd start interrogating guys for our district that we're in you know for myself or them long where the guys were and we would talk to him and Tara gate him and stuff and they sounded like they were good to go then we'd bring him in and scare Carson Scouts and they would stay with us we'd let him go and stuff but anytime we had an off they stayed with us until the OP was done and stuff you know I mean they we just didn't let them go they turned out that they were great guys and anyway the proof program was about six months long and half of was to a grasshopper was medical because you had to have that when you're working out there the medical especially because you're on your own out there you know you got a bill to take care of yourself as he hit and then they would come over but these guys were also after they got done like for going to another platoon it would be able to get that is everything he did but we had about seven guys at or six guys he was one of them that went to a special school like Camp Perry but it wasn't camp air as different as a shorter version and they got that training and they're the ones that were the Kadri for that set and like my loud first Platoon in 69 my whole platoon went through most of that before we deployed over so you get all that stuff we didn't get the field craft portion of it but they had some great really good quick kill trails and stuff like that and map and compass and everything you know me yeah and we're lucky because the platoon every once whilst they didn't have guys going see would be able to pick that up and go through it but that was superb training I mean really good yeah that's yeah it all boils back to training all the business yeah that's one of that's one of the best things about the SEAL Teams is that they called it to advanced training looks at training and specifically before the provincial recon units that they sent the guys over to so when you got back from that deployment of Vietnam now like I said that was November plane was the last full deployment through Vietnam and you now you know the war is kind of over but but you stayed in the teams did you go right to buds I mean yeah after that so I get these orders to the amphibious based I thought what's the ship yeah because that's when the dirty thirty was happy no that's oh yeah I didn't realize it actually in the thirty thirty two people dirty thirty is where after the war we had too many people and they wanted to cut us down so even though guy just got on a train stuff they picked three guys to go out to the fleet be divers eld and stuff like that and after two years you come back or whatever and it was just sucked it was just went into one of the low points I think of the team's imagine just major made it to buds and or UDT training whatever they call her back then I might have been buds and next thing you know you're you know you're going to dive school or somewhere soon I went over to and that was really pissed I went over to two buds as an instructor land warfare was a third phase and all that shit but they still had LD an end program going on then which is our you know gotten his action some other guys didn't I want to stay there and still do the Eldeen ends but I I think I don't know I just was one selected go to bud and when I got done with buds I went back at team one how long were you a buzz instructor for in just those two years yeah yeah and then you go back to t1 I was there again for about seven years and took about three or four platoons you know I mean yeah when you see buds now because you still are in the community is there any major difference that you notice between what you went through and what you see now a lot more land warfare now yeah I think the kids get trained better there's so much more to learn yeah I don't know half our class Paulie would have flunked his academically with what the guys got to know now I swear to God what a frogman it was you know wasn't that hard but now with all the calm and everything those guys go they teach in that lesson buds they teach common buds they teach some of it yeah not all of it some of it may a lot of ID's when I go out to San cominius if I guess they do maybe they don't maybe that's more and sqt but yeah they got to use radios out there in buds but it's just a it's a mixture between what we did in xqt and what was the frogman but I think the frogman part of it the UDT part of it is kind of really slacked off I think they do a few cursory parallel perpendicular recons and stuff like that but when I went through we were no fucking water so much it was so cold nobody always says you let this you earned your wet seat and it wasn't a full wetsuit it was just the well that's for sure that was the same with me we had we had the old wetsuits with beaver tails and we even when I went through this is 1991 right and so it's not like you couldn't get a season good surfing wetsuit because I surfed and I knew what a good sweat suit was so they give me that shitty uh wetsuit with the beaver tail which is exhibiting a big loose open it looked like a 1970s disco there's so much water going through that thing it was almost not worth well we we our first swim was the UD keys to no fins or nothin you your friends go yeah when you got reishi ation yeah they had a day they called it wet through depreciation and then it hit Lauren she's also to get your fins too you know and then we got our fans that we still give a couple swims without the wetsuit that we got our wet suit I mean it was like Jesus Christ yeah everybody always says yeah you don't mind cold water D and I says I've hated cold water all my life it's just part of her job and it's what you do you know I'm saying yeah you only get wet once yeah that's what I like you know what you just oh you're gonna get wet you can't wet one time and it doesn't matter anymore yeah but the I mean there's certain things that I don't think you've changed like there's always been a 5.5 nautical mile swim yeah right that I don't think that's gotten any shorter I forget that just is what it is a lot of the standards of state descend physically yeah and it fluctuates a little bit I think about who's the director over buds and mmm how many times they roll people back and then thing back in the day I mean if a guy was God dropped or something he was gone I never saw him again he was just he's out there you know it wasn't come back later but maybe they did after a couple years like we had a guy in our class named getting hit in been in class 37 I think and he had broke his hip and then he was in my class and he made it you know I mean really got hypothermia bad good man no there was a guy there's a guy in my class that had rolled back is Jeff Higgs as a matter of fact he's a jujitsu guy but he had - they dropped him for hypothermia and he would and he wouldn't so they told him he's out there like you're done hey man listen you're a great guy but you can't you can't be in the program anymore because you just get hypothermia too easy and he's like no I'm not leaving and they gave him his dungarees back which is like the regular mavey thing that you wear yeah and he showed up with the class on Monday with his dungarees on just pee teen with the class in the compound and they looked at him in there like I will give this bastard another shot yeah he was a he's a hard dude he made it through but you know hypothermia like heated heated exhaustion when you get it there the heat thing yeah that'll come back and bite him you know it really does I mean I swear to God hypothermia is like that - yeah if you get a real bad guy sciatica I knew it was like that with heat exhaustion but I know I was like that with hypothermic it is I mean maybe I'm wrong yeah I'm just that's where I've heard so I don't know well I'm lucky because I've always been pretty well marbled in terms of insulation there's those really skinny lean dudes I live on doubt if you swim as hard as you can you usually stay warm and that's a good boy I don't like treading water in cold water you know like that swimmer line I was telling you about that was that was painful God Almighty that was cold and I told you when we first got to buds they had us go down to 401 and gave us a talk you know a guy left hidden right here won't be there it's easier to pass a marshmallow through the keyhole of a needle and make it through and roll going yeah whatever and so they marked us all back in front of the bay you know I told you around the Bayside you know the guy's telling about come walking out any kind of like a square kind of like yeah yeah how tough can this be and everything and he said about faith forward march and marked us all other dress blues right in the water so you got your flap stick out like this all the white hats loading and the officers hadn't kind of looked at each other when goddamn this may not be that easy and went downhill from there you know that's definitely ruining our dress blues dude yeah that sucks that's difficult so you got done you got done with being buds instructor you went back and you did a bunch but how many platoons did you do thank again overall nine that's not that many but I mean it was good actually that is a lot for anyone that's less than doing nine pavilions a lot because that's nine platoons with work ups yeah that's like 20 years worth of work right there and then you know I had a story about you and you got into a fight with some guy at Nylund oh yeah ya know it was like you got to fight with some guy and I don't know that one that was this guy that was just out of presents the one yeah blue-eyed Aryan about six six yeah yeah somehow you know I heard the story from my platoon chief Annie and he said realities that Roger aids the toughest bastard alive and I singles yeah one time we're out at Nylund and there's some guy in a bar and he whatever something happens and you guys throw down and apparently you guys had like a legit like five maybe ten minutes fight oh it was terrible yeah so I walked in the bar and I'm just sitting there and they song kept playing that's what certain she rides us a little better or not funnier you ask the bartender god damn can you play a different song guy turns it off and this great big guy stands up like this idiot blonde hair about six four I think let's just look you know steel blue eyes and stuff and how come you turn that off and a bartender pointed right to me well he said turn it off and then the guy looks at me and I went I don't want to fight you know that's just you just don't get in fights them so I started walking out the door going across the other bar which is right across the street like you wouldn't have followed me so he follows me out the door and I turned and looked at him I said now he's going to follow me over there were probably won at fighting so I jumped on one foot twice and hit him as hard as I could and then right in the jaw knock him down his head went like this and and hit the wall and sumbitch stood right back up and I went holy shit you know what we did about a ten minute fighting he actually never hit me one time because I just I wasn't really good shaping out an island yeah running and you don't mean and so finally we squares off again you know and I look at him he looks at me and yeah I'm covered blood but it's his blood dripping on me because I just kept your punch if the guy ever hit me here to kill me he was fighting for fun I was fighting for my life that's a deal so he scores off again and finally I went Wheaton I'm not tired yet and we can keep on fighting or we can go across the street to have a beer he thought about it he says well let's go have a beer puts his arm around me you're pretty tough for a little guy but I mom was quiet I gotta thank God as father tells us like I've ever been Ian that guy was a Jesus and then I found out he'd been in prison yes and that's what he did his weightlifting boxer loose in prison ya know how I got out of that I'll never know because a punch line was that dude just got out of prison it was a weightlifter in a box with Scott boxer yeah I was uh I was a I was that worn out a few moments of excitement in that one and then you uh you became a Warrant Officer yeah I was a master chief I was master chief of group one and that that was all I was going to do I thought I wasn't going to go walk home or anything and that's when they came out with a warrant program so I put in for a warrant and went warrants and then deployed to Desert Storm came back and then we started the that special program I was in that did that for about a year year and a half and a benevolence of war con decided we didn't need that anymore so they took us all and put us in to run the first sqt for group one instead of having that two teams and then we did that and then I went from that to start doing orys it's awesome all finished after Laurie put when I was in my second platoon all the guys to all of our new guys went through your your s QTL and we've been going for like two hours right now just um I want to get one more question some some people listen to the podcast that want to go into SEAL Teams and you know any sort of thought on what they should be thinking about when they're trying to get in or trying to go fast me all the time you know I always say real simple stuff you know like hey do a bunch of pull-ups push-ups dips swim run and don't quit and and that's how you make it into the SEAL Teams that when you get in the SEAL Teams you know work your ass off well you know you get all those kids up at the pre-training Upper Great Lakes you know physically fit perfect and it's the mental thing it's you got to take each day at a time when you get there and if you fin sad day be real happy and get the next day and keep going on going to look ahead of what you got to do but it's like when I was a second time as the bus struck as a massive arms you know not get all these guys in and I'd tell them if you want to do everything we want to do and have the easy life go Leo D if you think you're going to be a diver and working diver I said go be a diver I told him if you want to be cold wet and miserable then go on the seals but I will say one thing even going through buds and you can probably attest to this that just gets you into the teams and then you deploy and that's where you pull from what you experienced some buds rather where you have to push yourself to the end you know like there again to in 69 we were doing this when I was with kiloton who were going to set up this ambush on this river we had to go through about a click and a half of mangrove shit network was all grey and shipped from Agent Orange and shit I was up to my knees in mud up to my waist and water and when you're holding your weapon up high enough to keep it out of the water and you go for about a click and a half in that shit using just compass because then we didn't have GPS and all that shit and you kept going to your rent into the stream or whatever you're going to set it up on you had a strain headache so bad your fucking eyes were crossed and your breathing and mosquitos in your mouth and spitting them out and shit like that that's a now you do that and you come back three beers and Pat poopers you know you're good to go or you're in Korean and pull hang and you got to hit the target but you got to go over about three mountain ridges because you can't run the ridges and create got to go up and down them and come out of a submarine and land on the beach and it's cold and you're you're kind of covering why one guys trying to take up a sweat suit and he's falling down until he gets the opposite then you do it and you get about halfway up the first mountain ridge before you start getting warm that's when you find out if you if you got it or not the bottom line is we complete the mission you know yeah that's what we do no matter what but like I say buds shall we call that shit just get you your mind in the right place to know that well goddamn I went through hell week I can give you this you know what I mean and other things like the five mile swim and all that stuff and that's all no it's just that it's it's more you I've seen when I was an instructor great big guys that were football players fall out and quit and I've seen little skinny guys that you laugh at thinking this guy's going to be a seal and he makes it through so because of up here is mine you know do you agree I mean is that yeah and and I've always you know the blood to the screening process and you don't actually learn much in buds it just gets rid of the people that don't want to be there and the real test comes when you know when you get into combat because going into you know being cold wet miserable for two or three or four or five days and training and do a bunch of push-ups doesn't compare to what you were just talking about arguing yeah I figure the sand yeah and all that shit that you went through that yeah I mean I I don't like the desert I don't like cold in the mountains give me the jungle anytime run my happy camper yeah that'll like mosquitoes so I'll take the desert of the balanced but those are the things you know you know I always say that I always talk about seeing my guys lined up to go out my body and their Humvees are lined up and like if I wasn't going on Bob who's just like platoon was going out and I'd stand out just I salute him like as they were leaves no I just stand out there and salute as they were rolling out and what it takes to be the lead turret gunner in the first Humvee is more than what it takes to get through buds like that guy who knows that there's been you know an ID on the road he's about to drive by there's been seven to ten IEDs a day on that road and he's a lead turret gunner and he's gonna roll out again and he did it the night before he did it the week before and he did it the night before that that's what the test is and you know plus or minus viewing I was on that Boston Whaler - who where is he he's up at the top right what can people see him you know any rockets or anything like that you know where it's going to go it's now beyond say I want to stop after the shooting you know me but uh just a just an example I mean like as in Subic would be a weird odd take three week is pretty neat because the topography there was you go from triple-canopy jungle down to mangrove to where the lower Mel was would preserve their fuel place and stuff well I'd take my guys up to the about four or five of them up to the hospital which is up top we'd go down to the triple-canopy jungle work away all the way through spend the night didn't come in and hit the lower mouth so they had Triple Canopy in regular jungle and mangos swamp shadow stuff and they were going to just to kind of let him know you know yeah this is what it was like boys yeah that's all us that's what it's like yeah so it's like that's why we train hard and to be prepared for that stuff so yeah awesome awesome advice echo speaking of advice sure you have any advice on how anyone if they want to maybe support the podcast or support themselves how they could do that sure clearly quick question exact quick question you mentioned the booby traps like what kind of booby trap what is it like trip liars all god.you we went before when we deployed and I don't know if I say I think it was 70 71 we stopped in Hawaii and when I was the EOD booby trap course that they had that they'd picked up over the years in Vietnam and set it all up and F we went through that thing you didn't want to go over just about because it was unbelievable but they would do stuff like they'd like to use to you guys in comm IEDs but they would be like mortars up in trees and stuff and they'd use different methods like a Gunny yeah they got he got hit with a command detonated might have been a mortar and you hit him pretty bad but I bet sometimes they would take filament down and put the fishermen so that you would grab it you wouldn't feel it on the bottom you know and a cold set off whatever they had set up if you usually saw a filament line that was just kind of sagging and everything you'd go ahead and cut that if it was tight you didn't fuck with it like you say the smart thing you do is the back way and come in another direction and the way the our point Scouts did it they're really good they would take a thin branch or stick you know real thin like just like when you're fishing you can feel the bite on the line they would take that and they would hold it kind of in the center and as we're moving slow they'd move it anytime that thing dipped they had reached out and feel it like a lot of other times if you going down a trail which isn't a really good idea anyway but you would step over a log sometimes they'd put a pressure detonate and stuff over that log if you stepped on it so you'd always want to go to the side just a myriad of things there was a who a lot of the stuff was command detonated like we're on those river boats there was this place called Snoopy snows you know and we'd have the boats going like this when they would turn one group of boats another group of votes would be here and then they would open up on this group of boats so they would shoot across but it wasn't that far to the word the other boats were and they'd start getting hit and thinking god damn were being shot at and you go back and forth or they would put a b40 rocket then they'd be down here in a spider hole but they'd have a like single pulse little and sticking up and as soon as the boat got right there they would hit the command thing a rocket would go off and get the boat everybody open up here and these guys would be giggling taking off you know what I mean this just you know the EOD guys that we had nowadays in the SEAL Teams the guys are covered they they go through workup with up there awesome you can't you couldn't if someone normal person was watching they wouldn't be able to tell who's the idiot who's not in at least when we're in Ramadi and that's what most of you guys are like but my you guys talk about not want to go over there my EOD guys they would they would put together briefs of like the latest the latest ID that's been out there this is when we're in Ramadi and you know every couple every maybe like once certain once every two weeks they put together more of a detailed brief of like hey this is what it does this is this thing and what we would do is when someone new like let's say someone was in from out of town or we had like a visitor that was going to go on and off with us you know they'd give that extended brief to teach the guys well what it actually did was he would just horrify you note up there but have nothing with it and yeah we trap that horse that they had there that I came like the joke like I you know I've looked at uld like I see their slide come up and I the initial slide in the brief was I could tell it was the big brief and I look over at the person that was going like our guest you know maybe it was like a senior officer someone was going to come or some Intel person that was going to go out and op with us and I look them at the beginning of the EOD brief and you know they just have a normal look on their face the by the end of 22 slides later they look like they didn't want to go anymore like the VC would take these of stone things you have water in itself right and therefore you're going to a village we didn't do we didn't usually sweep two villages and shit then feel about half it up with gasoline and if they knew the Americans would come in and take a grenade wrap up say riggers tape or something that would just isn't it great as well drop it in there then as the guys are going through checking out the reuters everything that would go off I mean like if we were going to go into a hooch or something we would tie a string to the door and then pull the door open everybody would be down or if we saw something and then where the steps were going into it sometimes if we weren't hitting it quick you know you check and see what was under the enemies it was anything but it's just they were ingenious but ever really beautiful you know they beat the French and shit really these guys have been fighting for a couple of years you know and anyway go ahead I'm sorry yeah I know those it it's crazy how they get smarter and then you guys get smarter with trying to figure it out then they're like okay they're trying to figure out this so they get sort a and it becomes the game in the game does help out of the game now dang you can be mean you know being in the game okay like that like that that'll tell you time alpha bring today apparently she did alpha brain alpha brain from on it I don't think there is any other kind of alpha brain but nonetheless I did take some and we're going to talk about it not for too long so anyway supplements supplementation so think about the hell's taking krill oil actually is when I was thinking about this where would you be if you didn't take any krill oil or any strong bone where would you be we don't know behind we're not outside exactly right so so it kind of makes me think like okay you know anyone who's thinking about okay chocolate would they talk about taking krill oil all the time how much it helps and they didn't start taking it you're behind so my recommendation is take the krill oil not to mention the alpha brain not to mention any other supplements that will help you get to where you want to be you talk about procrastination sometimes every once in a while and that's the biggest thing by definition it's going to keep you from doing it you know my kid on the supplements that's the point there and if you want 10% off the supplements that we all know are the best supplements go to Onix calm slash Jaco boom there it is support yourself then you can support others and it's worth vodcast film there it is also another way the support pot podcast is Amazon click-through which means before you do your amazon shopping click through the website choco podcast calm little banner there a good and natural way to do it is you know when you shop for the books like the books that you cover we have a whole page of all the books all of them click through there boom it'll take you right to the books you purchase that's a good way to support there to support your brain as well with books and educating yourself also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes stitcher Google Play all these other podcasting providing platforms if you haven't already that's a good way to do it leave a review if you can in mood if you're not a moved in don't do it or you can still do it if you're not know whatever you want also YouTube subscribe to that one people have been subscribing that's good it's good because it helps spread the word seems obvious but when you really think about it is not as obvious as you might think because when you get that alert it's not just the whole podcast as we always kind of know it's like little excerpts you know a lot of times or a little bit more artistic excerpts you'll be more compelled to share those and we talked about shareability right when you get when someone shares it with you that's one thing you like okay I'll listen to this it's only two three minutes long but on the reverse side when you when you're about to share it you'll be thinking kind in the other person's fine they're more into listening to it because it's shorter it's subtle but there's a difference so anyway if you subscribe boom value ha it'll have that effect on you as well I know seems magic but it's it's very explainable anyway point there is subscribe to YouTube that's a good one we'll put more videos on there as well also jockle at the store it's called Jacko's store Jaakko store calm new rash guard is out straight up we did it on the Facebook live I put it live on there you were there I was there I think it was your Facebook life I don't think I've ever done a Facebook live by the way anyway back to the store this women stuff on their this t-shirts on there you have a t-shirts do we gave you t-shirt right last time give you another one this stuff - they're pretty dope there's layers more to the shirts that then meets the eye where your kid shirt is out mm or your kid shirts sure adults and children yeah yeah also Jocko uniform that's what I'm calling it the Jocko uniform oh this shirt victory Emma Mayen fitness shirt you know the actual original shirt 100% cotton very soft like a jock Alexis anyway from I hear all right that's what I heard anyway a lot of cool stuff I'm on there if you want to support get something there's some patches on there too velcro patches regulation-size for that actually we got hats coming up too by the way Oh a lot of people they out now not out there not up I'm saying why are you even coming I'm saying because when people make these suggestions and a lot of people start making okay you know the more people that make them the more I'm we we are likely to begin to think about executing how you make it sound like such a process long process it's the process because you can't just have like two guys saying hey we should get um you know I don't know something earrings or something in another guy's yeah that's clear exactly right story don't ask local you made my point for me so Pat's were one of those ones where there was a lot of people saying we need that or we should we should have hats that would be cool and people were like yeah I think that too so anyway hats are on the way somebody's out there I already mentioned the rash guard I think I think we have a lot of good stuff on there but we wait for you to find out is to go to Jacko store calm and find out for yourself if you're in the mood get something like that or get something that's on there and it will support the budget also good way to support yourself in your journey journey are we doing journey or meandering you've been doing it just so you know I know but I just I mixed open about it was it feel not comfortable yeah I like what other people say and on myself anyway and you're getting after a journey waking up early sticking to the workout sticking to the diet I think that's the that's the main one yeah I'm saying maybe but don't say maybe you're at my house the other day and your power what were you eating China wings no there's others that apple pie well it wasn't apple pie no there was something nonetheless as far as iets go I went I went knocked on the chicken wings technically the way those were made that wasn't much of a deviation from the diet okay anyway the point they're being diet in Kumar's ding dong what yeah exactly right and that's the point really even Jocko gets nuts sometimes it was a Saturday so that could have been a cheat day who knows but I'm just saying you can be on the program and the diet thing that'll sneak up on you that will sneak up on you when you're not ready like if you if you have okay I gotta wake up to 4:30 you know when the insurgent is going to come it's going to come at 4:30 you got to work out at 8:30 or 5 or whatever time you know when the weakness might come so you can be ready for it the diet thing you just don't know so what I'm saying so nonetheless any moment of weakness this is what you do you go to iTunes or Amazon music and get an album with tracks called psychological warfare all it is is a bunch of tracks Jaco telling you why you should not skip workout you should not hit the snooze you should not eat the doughnuts no doughnuts practical logical advice from Jocko you know I cannot of people they look for inspirational you know this is practical flimsy right inspirational is very flimsy because it relies on you feeling like it this has nothing to restrain this has to do by definition with you not feeling like it so let Jocko talk you into making the right decision boom that's all it is hundred percent effective I dare you to skip the workout after workout and get up whatever the track is called to the lunch of a month anyway again psychological warfare iTunes still number one by the way mm-hmm that's a check holding holding strong holding strong for a good reason by the way yeah also when you're on Amazon you can get jock a white tea which I'm drinking right now and the reason I'm drinking it is because it's delicious by the way what does it taste like victory we're the warrior kid book came out feedbacks been unbelievable getting photos of kids doing pull-ups studying doing jujitsu basically getting after in all realms of getting after it which is which has been awesome and if you want your kid to get after it yeah or other kids around your kid to get after it and become stronger smarter and better than get them weighed or your kid and I just got an email yesterday for the friend of the family 69 years old does that consider the kid now a little bit older the kid kid what guess what he said he learned a lot from Uncle Jake I did I just finished it no you finish it a few days ago I read one or two chapters just every night routine boom boom with my four-year-old just finish you understand it she understands a percentage of it she's four cudoce especially understanding package so this is the plan so she's going to send these really really basic things and maybe you know I'm going to just read it over and over and over so there comes to eat those kind of thing and then after she gets older she'll start understanding the details you know and then the more older she has someone she understands but her base we have fought her book more accurately so boom this guy friend of the family 69 years old learn from it and then he won't went buy a copy for all of his grandchildren each of them individually so that's good this phone equals freedom field manual thoughts and actions that's coming out it's available you can get it for pre-order right now extreme ownership of course you can get combat leadership applied to business and to life so you can get that book also if you want to get in the game you can contact Daschle on front leadership and management consulting company that we have that contact is info Daschle on front comm also the muster is around the corner the Austin Texas mustard thirteen and fourteen of July at the Omni Barton Creek Resort pragmatic leadership strategies and tactics that you can utilize day one no no reason to wait around you'll learn them and you'll be sending emails in a break to your team getting things fixed there's only three hundred seats for this because we wanted a smaller venue and this was the better venue it's going to sell out so if you want to come get your tickets now until the muster if you have any feedback or questions for us you can find us actually on the interwebs Twitter Instagram and on that Facebook if echo is that echo Charles and I am at Jocko willing Roger of course has no social media doesn't care echo you got anything else I think Roger Hayden again for coming by thank you so much yeah I just want to say though Jellico my husband's going to teach it so in your studio for about six months now and all that it he loves it yeah and he was went to about two and a half years of this fighting boxing guy that was really good and but he says that jiu-jitsu was a plus the instructors you got our table he'll yeah he's really likes it he told me to tell you he really enjoys it and thank you yeah of course it's it's great to have our gym victory MMA it's great to have it and to have it it's just accessible to people there's no walls around it open door it cost money of course cuz you got to pay rent and all that stuff but not that much not not crazy okay hundred bucks a month could use a train any time you want you need to anytime you want well not 24 hours a day but 6:00 in the morning until 10 o'clock at night compared to any other places oh yeah like literally three times as much training plus it's not just you JIT so yeah you got everything there and he says that's what he likes about it wide open and he likes ins yeah it's got to get through boxing Muay Thai wrestling MMA CrossFit it's got everything in there and that's why we built it Roger you got anything else no I'm good then bumper now now well amen once again thanks for coming on my pleasure just awesome to have you on here and the first time that you were on I got a million I know you don't do social media but I got a million people saying please bring Roger back on please bring Roger back on and now that you are on today and you once again you have a good way of telling little bits of stories that are awesome and I want to hear like of one hour story about sea Wolf's coming in and droppin bombs and spraying stuff down I'm like how does it what guy want to learn the actus what was going on so you're probably going to have to Anu you're burned out for today but you probably have to get on one one more time Evan and but thanks for coming on again sharing your story your experience your wisdom with us and more important of course thanks for what you did for our country for the Navy and of course for the teams you're absolutely one of the guys that made the team's what the teams are so thank you for that Roger honor to have you on here and for the rest of the Vietnam veterans and I hear a lot from Vietnam veterans thanks to all of you for holding the line and thank you for every deployment for every operation every mission every day spend out on patrol every night span out in the bush every helicopter assault every River operation every combat sortie every case of jungle rot and malaria and every wound received and every brother lost thanks to you all for what you did for us we will never forget so until next time this is echo and Jocko and Warrant Officer seal Rodger Hayden out

Channel: Jocko Podcast

Views: 1,431,562

Keywords: jocko, podcast, roger hayden, vietnam, war, military, navy seal, udt, usa, america, veterans, echo charles

Id: 74JqZ2JgEPg

Length: 152min 9sec (9129 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 01 2017