Israel & Palestine | The Politics of War | Victor Davis Hanson

Donald Trump to his credit showed us with Soloman and U with Isis he destroyed them uh and Iran did not do anything and I I I there would be no way Hamas was doing this between 2017 and 2000 uh January of 21 they had a small War but they never did anything like this and I don't think Vladimir Putin would have gone into Ukraine and I don't think that CH China would have sent a balloon and just because they he was unpredictable and they thought the United States would be very it would be a dangerous thing to tempt [Music] it it's an enormous privilege to talk to Victor Davis Hansen from Stanford University the Hoover Center at Stanford University in America uh California uh he of course is a internationally respected historian writer and occasional guest in these conversations what he has to say in this is of profound importance Victor thank you so very much for joining us can we just begin very broadly why this attack on Israel and why now and then we'll unpack that further well the general reason why attack I think that there was a perception a general perception and we can go why why now on October but there was a general perception in Israel that they had they had never been wealthier they have never been more successful I've been there the last two summers I talked to a lot of people in the government there was a general perception on the Israeli part that they had 20,000 guas workers coming in every day nearly and that that that argu ument they had accepted that these people were very well paid and they were supporting another 100,000 in Gaza they were ready with the renewal or the rebooting I should say of the um Abrams Accord there had been kind of a you talk to Israelis they were kind of relieved that the Iran deal effort to 2.0 had failed so I think there was a general Sense on the Israeli part of complacency because of their sheer success it was was almost talking to a lot of Israelis that they thought we've been so magnanimous now with bringing in guest workers and we're reaching out to the Arab world that they're going to look at our success and they've never been wealthy or more successful it's just stunning country to seeing just versus 20 years ago it's got a higher standard of living in many ways than we do here in the United States and I think they thought that magnam minity would recip be reciprocated in kind rather than a source of and anger that would create a neoism about people who were not able to do that and that's just the general atmosphere more specifically from the Hamas side I think they looked at the huge left-wing demonstrations against the net Yahoo government there were reservist who were not reporting for uh annual uh call-ups there was a sense that Israeli Society was bifurcated they wanted to stop this Abraham renewal that was clear and they felt that Iran had been given a blank check and they had more rockets and had Hezbollah would help them and that all gave them a sense that the Israelis are not going to be they have no idea what we're up to we've been planning this a year we're going to stop the Abrams Accord we're going to really shock the the world and then the final third player in this triangle is of course the United States John and we in this administration had put Robert Maui in charge of the Iran deal he has now lost his job he's lost his security clearance he was obviously loose and that's a euphemism with classified documents he brought pro-iranian uh Nationals and Iranian Americans into the state department and that sent an a message to Iran that this Administration really did want to appease them they were begging to go back in the Iran deal the Afghanistan disaster the 50 billion in weapons the Ukraine uh invasion of Putin or open border the Chinese balloon it all cemented a picture that Hamas Hezbollah and Iran had formed that the United States either could not or would not do what they did say the prior four years under Trump they knew they would not do something like bomb the blank out of Isis or kill Soloman and they thought it was an opportune time and they didn't think they'd ever have a time like this again so if we can examine those three major players for a moment just drill into it yeah as you say a very very prosperous Israel asleep at the wheel to external dangers deeply divided it seems uh over reforms their legal system what impact in your judgment will this horrific event have had will will it be galvanizing to what extent will it be galvanizing yeah what sort of willpower and capacity will emerge in your view well I I think that their original plan was to go in and take a 100 or 200 captives which in itself would be a coup and kill some soldiers but in their blood lust they not only killed over a thousand civilians but they desecrated mutilated their bodies they attacked women and children they burn them there was it was premodern it was pre-vedic human sacrifices the mutil and so they really inflamed Israel justifiably in a way that we had never seen it before and they've woken up and the reaction is going to be exactly like the yam Kipper except to the anth degree and I don't think Hamas understands that this is the first time in our lives John that there's no restraint to speak of I know Joe Biden will go over there and he'll say do this and do that and do that but he's not going to stop this righteous retribution ofas and then Hezbollah is talking talking talking and Iran is talking talking talking and beating their chest and tomorrow is supposed to be a Day of Reckoning but they don't understand that they're widely despised in the Western Europe doesn't is sick of them and Europe is clamping down on their own unassimilated immigrant Muslim populations and we are getting very angry at ours you have a problem as well in Australia and I think there's no patience anymore the second thing is that Joe Biden is not leading events he's being driven by events and if they they have a thou 10,000 100,000 Rockets I should say in Lebanon does does Hezbollah if they get full of themselves and they send I don't know 5,000 4,000 at the US Fleet perhaps one might hit it a lot might hit it but they don't understand that there is a there's no patience with them anymore there's no restraint on the United States Russia is bogged down in Ukraine China has one two China has two concerns one anything that hurts the United States they're up for but number two that what overrides that initial initial agenda is they don't want 40% of their oil disrupt and they don't want a big war in the Middle East not right now with economic difficulties and what that what that means is the clients of Iran are not going to be eager to get into a war with the United States or the West in general and so Iran's not Iran has no client it has no backup and I don't know if they know that they keep thinking because of the weakness in this Administration that it's systemic and it will continue forever but I don't think that Joe Biden will be able to stop the righteous anger if they do something stupid and they may well do something stupid because we've lost DET the question of um willp pass one thing and then this it's very interesting that you're seeing as you say perhaps we're being dragged to it rather than leading events but nonetheless as the Russians discovered and now the Middle East is observing the rest of the world is observing you know when it comes to Foreign Affairs when when when it really comes down to it America is still Resolute enough to stand up it has the willpower that seems to be one of the great messages out of this I I think so there's a weird calculus going on because there are people in the Democratic party uh not their crazy lunatic Squad base but the but are very strong supporters of Israel and they are shocked by this neist blood curdling support for hamas's barbery and savagery and they want Israel to retaliate that's not coming from the conservative or the right that's coming from the mainstream Democratic party they they are telling Joe Biden you've got to let is go and do what they need to do and that's that's very that's very new and when you have a Democratic president I don't think people abroad fully comprehend you have no you have no restraint typically a Republican or conservative Administration wants to have deterrence and then the left almost in pavlovian fashion says this is imperialistic neoc colonialist provocative Trump killed Soloman he got blasted for it Trump bombed Isis he got blasted for it but when the democratics people are in there's no restraint because no Republican would say please don't hit Iran or please don't hit Hamas and you have their their members of their own party uh who were outraged about what happened to Israel and what Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran are saying not only about that but what they're going to do in addition in addition to that I don't see when I look at the landscape here or abroad I don't see any restraining voice that's going to say you better not do that or else or you can't do that because that would be aoral or it's against un rules of War there's nothing I don't hear any of that so we're just seeing really if you think about it the ball is in Hezbollah and Iran's Court they have the bragio and the bravado and we're just going to see if they really want to go to war the I don't know if you saw the econom ICS minister of Lebanon not too long ago I think 4 days ago said if there's a 2006 War again we're going to be back in the Dark Ages because we it's been almost 17 years and we haven't recovered yet from the damage the Israelis did and that was a scenario in which most people thought Israel didn't do well in the 2006 War but if Hezbollah showers Israel with missiles they will make Beirut look like a moon skap and they know it and I think uh Iran if Iran thinks that Hezbollah and Iran will destroy the Jewish State I think at that point they're sorely mistaken because Israel will go as I said medieval on them can I ask then that raises the question about the military capacity of the Israelis I don't think anyone would dispute a massively uh powerful in terms of Technology their Air Force uh they have six uh uh very heavily armed submarines uh and I understand a couple of them have their their missiles missile firing capacity aimed right at Iran as we speak but but the idea of a house to house almost room by room Gilla Warfare with a bunch like Hamas how well equipped are those massive numbers of reservists and so forth it goes we've covered the issue willpower what about capacity to actually do it I take it that Hamas will have set every imaginable and horrific booby trap you could ever imagine well I think it it's going to be a little bit like what the Americans did in fuah or mul I was embedded twice in Iraq as a journalist and they didn't do what everybody thought they were going to do just charge in there they they cut off certain sections of the city fragmented them and then they had civilians go out and then they had a combined air and ground assault but they didn't go into individual houses they blew out the stairways and most of the houses that I could see so I think what they're doing is they're saying that Biden they don't want to do it with Biden they don't want to do it um because of the weather I think they're getting ready and they want the Hamas people to St them and I know that's count that's counterintuitive because people say well you need to do when these this horrible Massacre is fresh so the world doesn't forget it yes but I think they are going to fragment they're going to go into a section of Gaza City and they're going to kill the people that need to be killed and and then they're going to and destroy all the tunnels and infrastructure then they're going to go into another one and another one and they're never going to know which one they're going to go into rather than just a whole swarm I could be wrong but I don't I don't think they're going to do what everybody thinks they're going to do and I think it's going to be pretty sophisticated and and we talk about fuah but when you walked in fuah after the Americans took the city it it you can see how they took it every almost every house had a hole about the size you could drive a car through where they didn't they didn't say we're not going to go up the stairway and fight it out with these guys upstair they just blew apart the stairway and tapped the wall and they went to the next one and then they came after about a day or two they got rid of the people that were trapped up there so I think the idea is that rather than saying you're going to go into these houses you're going to find ways to make sure they're trapped in those houses and they're vulnerable and um sort of what uh you know when you say door Todo they went against individual civilians but Hamas went into these towns and they trapped people in their home and then they closed the doors and fired them and did stuff like that some of the people a few of them were armed but it was very effective unfortunately and I think that's we'll see something like that but they got it the biggest problem they're going to have is a Subterranean War they're going to have the these these tunnels go down to 200 ft before they go in the Horizon and they're going to have to find them all and they're probably going to be stocked with hostages and who knows what we'll be trapped as you say but I think they can handle it because there's not I just don't think Joe Biden politically will be able to say to them you're not going to be able to do this I think he's going to try to say we're going to worried about humanitarian things we're going to give supplies but secretly they're going to be able to do what they need and I can't think of a time maybe you can in our lifetimes when somebody said we're not going to strain we're not going to restrain the Israelis they've always been restrained but I I don't see the restraint on the horizon anywhere now not in terms of superpower nuclear deterrence not in terms of public opinion in the United States not in terms of the left in the United States not in terms of Europe I don't see where somebody some strong voice is saying you better not do this it's just not going to happen we are seeing this sort of uh wobbliness I suppose this lack of moral Clarity nonetheless uh amongst a lot of people who I think leave themselves open to the charge of I may be so bold of as being seen painting themselves really is anti-Semitic yes uh it seems to be at the base of a lot of this when our own foreign minister I don't accuse her of being anti-semitic but she did call for restraint you've seen those sorts of calls uh and we've also seen horrific demonstrations here with people mounting protests where they've been celebrating the horrors of all of this I suppose the question that arises out of that is just how much tolerance just to push back gently there will be if this is protracted and ugly and there is heavy loss of life and a lot of it comes out of a very deep misunderstanding about what the real situation in Gaza is and the West Bank um who the Palestinian people are and the fact that they're not the same as Hamas Hamas is another even uglier iteration of extremist Islamic behavior and one of the great problems we've got is of course the left-wing media across the world essentially doesn't like Israel I'm wondering whether that is in code for a got a streak of anti-Semitism in them and they haven't actually revealed to us the true nature of this evil yes and the real NS of the battle that's all true but when you see CNN and Anderson Cooper doing a documentary about the horrors that took place the mutilations the torture the burning of people in the kabut that's I've never seen CNN do something like that it was just daming that appeared yesterday when you see wealthy left-wing donors to Harvard or to University of Pennsylvania say we're not going to give any more money none now you see Silk Stocking law firms say we want the names of all the people who supported Hamas we don't want to hire them where I I work at a very very liberal University I think it's the most leftwing of any major University Stanford University but when you have a lecturer tell Jewish students to stand in the corner and see how it feels to be on and he and he's similarily put on what academics do is they put them on leave and they never hire them back once you're reprimanded by that that's it's equivalent to a firing and we did that immediately and so I think higher education in the West in general but in particular in the United States is embarrassed itself people were shocked they said we had no idea the level and this this kind of ties into the demonstrations we're seeing in Los Angeles and New York by first and second generation immigrants from the Middle East a lot of people now are saying well what did you expect we have an open border with 8 million people came through we've had a two years of just a lack immigration we have no assimilation or integration confidence and I think there's it's really shaken up Americans and there's not a lot of there's not a lot of Tolerance yesterday uh Governor D Santa said that he wanted nobody coming in from Gaza or the Middle East as refugees I think that that will be almost politically because he said in a blanket fashion and he didn't retract it that they they were an anti-semitic group of people he didn't want them in the United States well that would be politically toxic just to say that a month ago and so I don't think that it's kind of like 911 it builds very slowly but this time I don't think people are going to say we need to go over to the Middle East and we need to do what we did in Afghanistan Iraq and try to win hearts and minds and recreate a western nobody's saying that it's more if we have to go over there it's not going to be on their terms it's not going to be house to- house Americans it's going to be an air campaign that they will not welcome and um so I don't see any major what I guess I'm saying John is I don't see any major political figure on the I don't see a Nikki Haley or Ronda santis or Donald Trump or even Joe Biden or as ad Kennedy anybody on any saying we've got to restrain Israel and there it's just a cycle of violence and the people who did do that there was a something in the state department Palestinian Affairs Bureau it was taken down immediately Anthony blinkin met with the the Turkish foreign Ministry he said we need to talk about a ceasefire and he was met with so much criticism that now he thinks he's George Patton the way he's talking so I guess what I'm saying is public opinion is driving this and I think the Biden Administration maybe unwillingly but it's it's floating along with it it can't stop it and that's what I don't think Iran or Hezbollah and we'll see if they're smart as they think they are but it would be very unwise for them to shower Israel or our ships with a with a gun of rockets because I think they have the wherewithal to do a lot of damage to both Tran and Beirut and there'd be a huge demand in Western publics that that happened the other thing I think very quickly I don't think Iran realizes how isolated it is it's widely despised by everybody it's despised by the the Arab world it's despised by Europe it's despised by North America it's despised by the English-speaking uh nations of the British Commonwealth it I don't see it's kind of a robes gy even Russia and China convenient allies they don't like Iran they they don't really want them to be nuclear unless it's going to be you know an irritant completely without any exception to the United States so Iran has no friends nobody will Ru if they do something stupid and there's a retaliation against them this same goes for Hezbollah or H so um this is very profound coming from a scholar of your standing who's frequently despaired I think as we all have of American willpower and capacity and leadership in the world you're really painting the picture of a very nasty or very evil jolt having reset and refocused the leader of the Free World that's what that's that's am I hearing you correctly on that I'm not advocating any type of of action I'm just trying to reflect as I see it I think that being a left from the left and given the record of appeasement with Putin and the disaster in Afghanistan and the the lack of reaction to the Chinese Espionage Escapade it was a natural inclination of this Administration to try to restrain Israel and we saw that in the first 48 hours with the statement as I mentioned of lincol and on our own State Department website and a few other people Sullivan the National Security adviser but that there's something going on that's carrying them now and they realize that that's not viable so now they're trying to at the edges Peck around and say well bring back the water or let's have some type of uh effort to go into Gaza but they're hitting reality and the reality is that Egypt does not want to open their country to Hamas and they will Dam Israel to the to the skies but they will call Israel up privately and say we're not going to let them in we want you to deal with Hamas and in a counterintuitive fashion John I think the big danger for Israel is if it would go in house to house and get bogged down and then take casualties and then bend to an opportunistic American demand to to do something that will bring Hezbollah in and that will bring ran in if they go in and they're completely on restrained and they as I said not trying to be dramatic but they go medieval on Hamas that will keep Iran and Hezbollah out because they will see the damage that they're seeing right now and they will say do we want that in tran and do we want that in Beirut and I don't think they do and yet they can't predict the reaction of Israel or even for that matter public opinion in the United States it's pretty I've been kind of amazed at the statements that are coming out from former um uh attorney general Bill bar a very worked for the Trump Administration very anti-trump calling to deal now with Iran Walter Russell me a very distinguished sober and judicious Wall Street journalist Callum saying whether you like it or not we're going to have to deal with uh Tran and you have Lindsey Grant all these people it's almost I think they need to take take a step back because if we deal with Iran it's not going to be tick for Tat stop go if you deal with ran you've got to go all the way and I don't know if they're ready or prepared for that but uh I I don't think that Iran or Hamas or hasb quite understand that when you go into a a a a village a Villages caboots a country and you invade that country at a time of a holiday and you deliver L Massacre women and children and then almost as if they're Aztec cap captives taken up to tempal Major and toot chlon to sacrifice in this 15th century or 16th century taking these kids back it was so horrific and horrifying that I think everybody just said you can't deal with these people and I don't think that Hamas represents all of the the God and people I don't believe in Collective punishment but that said the images that we got here in the United States of captives that were almost like they were in a ro Roman Triumph in a Jeep or they were they were ridiculed and almost a spontaneous crowd spitting on them and yelling and we want more of them and you never got the impression that Hamas was was facing public you know outrage from Gaza there was celebration at what they were doing and and that I don't I don't think they understood that but you know Yasser Arafat did when right after 911 when they were celebrating our loss of 3,000 he stopped it very quickly and started to give blood so people would not bomb he thought uh Jericho or something but when you see that unrestrained celebration and you see some of it in the United States and around the world among e Patriot communities that only furthers this anger it doesn't asage it it doesn't make people say oh we better pull back these people are very angry at us it has the opposite fact and uh no one wants to see a four-year-old Israeli boy taken captive and then have a video made of young uh gauen children kicking him and calling him a filthy Jew and trying to ridicule torture him that the attitude is whether it's fair or not is you can't do you can't work with these people as long as Hamas is there and there's going to be collateral damage but they asked for war they wanted war and now they're going to to get War I think that's the attitude and I I hope that they pull back I'm not sure that they they're so accustomed to us being appeasing that they don't realize that westerners have this traditional trait that he they take it and take it and take it and then when they you get a a particular point they kind of go berserk and I hope that doesn't happen but if they continue to do this it's going to happen one hopes they read the tea leaves because we do need a major reset the world's become very unstable can I ask you yes um this does raise again the question America heavily committed to Ukraine Europe not stepping up properly and I'd have to say I think even my country although we've done a bit long distances we are away we haven't done enough uh America's done all the heavy lifting again America will be doing all the heavy lifting here over and above what the Israelis do um it raises well obviously many questions one of them is um America has reduced its GDP expense on you know spending on the fences a proportion of GDP very very significantly we hear reports about a lot of American Equipment being obsolete or in maintenance or what have you uh submarine very relevant for Australia submarine yards not able to keep up with your own replacement program and so forth what does this mean in terms of America being involved on potentially several fronts and again you have touched on it but how China might seek to take advantage of this or whether they will be wise enough to say no hang on this is a resolved America again it doesn't do any good for the the president to say well were the United States were the strongest power I'm quoting in verbatim in the history of civilization that doesn't mean anything unless you are and when you look at the $50 billion a lot of it was small arms but nevertheless 50 billion in equipment we threw away in Afghanistan or I should say say handed over the Taliban and then you see the $120 billion of Munitions were giving to Ukraine and a lot of the stuff is off the books as far as economic support or other types of Aid that's not really spoken about and then you see what we're going to have to give Israel although they're not I mean we're giving Israel air power Munitions and we're giving Ukraine more ground power Munitions maybe they overlap maybe they don't and then when you see what China's saying about uh Taiwan and then you look at the fact that we're $33 trillion in debt and all I can say is that after Co and after the George Floyd and the woke Movement we decided we were going to defund the police and defund the Pentagon so we we actually cut in real dollars Pentagon and we you we borrowed enormous amounts of money to redistribute lavish most of it was Ill spent and we're in a terrible financial situation and uh we're we're under armed given our commitments in other words our strategic commitments way outweigh our where we that being said the history of this country if you look at 19177 or 1941 we were more ill prepared to meet those strategic debt demands than we are now and it all hinges on at what point do this traditional American light click on it says this is an ex itial period and you've got to now rearm to the teeth and you've got to change and you've got and I can see that coming and I think this country is very lacked it's a very strange country as you know but when it finally gets in its head it has enormous powers of productivity it's it's labor participation rate is way under what it could be there's a lot of Labor that's not being used there's a lot of capital that's not being invested in work could be invested very quickly and we could really ramp up very quickly if we wanted to and I think we're going to do that and I think there's a sense now that woke is over with the George Floyd is over with the co lockdown is over with it none of it worked and it's time to get back to looking at taking a hard look at our universities our educational system going back to assimilation integration of different types of ethnic groups and closing theard order and you know stepping back into reality rather than this two or threee fantasy and I think someone who's 70 years old now and watched the United States it still has that ability to recover and react very quickly and it always amazes me when it really wants to do something and the the amount of talent we have here and wealth if we really want to do it and something usually sets it off if Hamas or Hezbollah or Iran do something like they did on October 7th involving either hostages or Americans or Israelis again I think it'll set this country off I really do and I think we're already on that pathway anyway I don't see anybody in the political realm who's saying we we we we can't spend this money everybody's talking about I'm going to spend more money in defend than you will or everybody's trying to say uh we're going to have to address the immigration problem we're going to have to address the University problem and I mean that from both sides of the aisle I can't believe what the New York Times and CNN have been writing I mean it sounds like for a brief moment in their existence they believe in America again and they believe in deterrence and they believe that the Arab world suffers from endemic anti-Semitism and I don't that's contrary to the whole W Dei Doctrine and gospel anti-Semitism has been on the rise in Europe uh clearly it has been in Britain it was a massive problem for the labor party prior to the last election and it has here too in Australia and we had horrendous scenes horrendous really uh the Sydney Opera house with no greater symbol of Australia than the Opera House Li up at the request of the New South Wales Premier appropriately with the Israeli flag in my view and then you had Palestinian supporters basically rallying and reflecting what are nothing short of Nazi views really gas the Jews how incredibly inappropriate we've since had some of our green or left-wing politicians being highly ambivalent in their support for Israel uh and we've seen Islamic leaders extremist leaders celebrating openly saying I'm crying with joy for all of this um to what extent do you think hatred of Israel or or or the belief that Israel is a colonizing power is used as cover for something that's as ancient As Time simple loathing of One race yes and it seems to me that the very people who scream most about racism and the horrors of it and March in the streets with BLM and so forth are the most ambivalent about this particular form of hatred it is it's anti-semitic and you can even see it in more Insidious I mean I support helping Ukraine but you didn't see any major politician on the left say we have to stop the cycle of violence in Ukraine and violence never stopped it solved anything and the ukrainians better listen to us and stop this cycle of violence they don't have a right to retaliate it's only Israel that we give those lectures to and if anybody said to Ukraine what what what's the cycle of VI violence solved why are you tit fortat the same type of dialogue they're they're they're using with Israel everybody would think they're insane and yet they get they get a pass by by that uh attitude toward Israel I think part of the problem is that and I'm speaking that we're probably in roughly the same age group when we grew up in the west anti-Semitism was more of a kind of a right-wing carryover from the 20s or 30s where people said you know the Rothchilds are running the world or and it was but this is and it was easily identified and it was discredited because of War II Etc but this is new the last 30 years this is coming a from the left but it's also coming from the diversity equity and inclusion and that tells me that they feel they're exempt because they feel they're marginalized people and according to the doctrine of anti-racism nobody who is not white can be guilty of being a racist so they embolden them M themselves and so when we look at what the black caucus is saying or what black lives matter with her poster rarify a hang glider coming down to kill Jewish children that's a poster that they had out uh a African-American Professor Cornell today one at Stanford where I work it there's this idea that you can say these things on the left and you will be no consequences because you are a a post George Floyd woke victim you're your and of course anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism so I think there's a very radical change and and it's going to affect because they're sounding so heartless and as you say so semi fascist or indeed nazil likee that people are repulsed by that and they were repulsed by the things in New York they were repulsed by the thing in Sydney I think the West in general and you see it in France especially the government has outlawed I think people are saying multiculturalism doesn't work it's different than multi-racial we are tolerant of races but we have to have one common culture our universities these demonstrations they show that immigration that is non mraic illegal but not diverse as in one region does not work especially given the lack of assimilation and integration and they're saying something is toxic and higher educ a maybe we should not give them tax exempt status for their endowments maybe we should get the government out of student loans we've got to do something because this country is not sustainable with that level of anti-Semitism and hatred so I I see the reaction to it is very I'm very optimistic because I think people are now saying yes they're anti-emetic but the problem is even deeper than that and they showed their true colors when they were on the side of death death they were neist and they were basically celebrating the slaughter of children and when you get to that point of hatred something is terribly fundamentally systemically wrong with these institutions that allows that and I and I think people are going to make some changes and I think they're very careful I think the squad uh we have these radical islamist condous women I think they're very careful now what they're saying they've got a furious push back and they know they have no support for it when you have a left-wing African-American mayor in New York Eric Adam and he sounds like he's an Israeli now and he's damning the hatred and the anti-Semitism in his City granted he has a large Jewish population but there are people now on the left saying this is embarrassing and these people really do hate Jews they they say they hate Israelis and anti-Semitism is no longer some crazy guy on the right right that's you know in the Stone Age these are left-wing sophisticated Elites professionals and they're in and they're also they're ungracious we have so many first and second generation people from the Middle East and they come over here and we we've been a very generous host to them we give them prosperity and security and freedom and yet when you look at what they're doing and I say they because there's thousands of them protesting on behalf of these Hamas Killers you want to say to them stop do you think that you could go to to Gaza and you could protest and say I I disagree with h they kill you you think you could be gay in Gaza they kill you you think you could be a lesbian in Iran they kill you you think you could be Trans on the West Bank they'd probably kill you and to come over here and flee that tyranny and beg us to allow you to be part of our body politic and then to voice support for the very things that you fled as in coherent and so a lot of people you hear that all the time if you hate this country or you hate everything why don't you go back where you want to be and and join in with the Jihad and you will have no freedom and you'll have no security and no Prosperity but to take advantage of all that we offer you and then to Dam your host and to damn your host's allies it's Western it's so incoherent that it's really counterproductive for the left I mean they say our part you when you go to Israel 21% of the population is Arab and out of that Arab I think 12% 11 to 12% are Muslims they have political parties they vote they have freedom of speech they're prosperous I've been to many of their Villages cities in Northern Israel and compare it to anywhere else on Jordan or Egypt Syria Iraq there's nothing like it no Arab citizen anywhere in the Middle East has the the the freedom to express himself and to vote and to to worship as he feels as they do in Israel and yet we're told by by American leftists that these these people suffer under a partti everybody knows it's a lie so lies don't have any curency finally because they they're divorced from reality and I think everybody understands that and they're getting angry about people who enjoy our hospitality and our comfort and our security and then uh champion and praise these uh these total Arian systems that are cruel to people and yet they lecture us on morality and yet they're defending a a system not just that is hypocritical but they would never go back to they fled those system that's what's really aggravating to people Victor you've written extensively you wrote a book you know the the dying citizen uh to some extent I'm hearing you say there's an opportunity here there's an incentive there's a there's a there's a moment moment when Middle America feels this is enough and we're going to step up and take back some citizenship is that a potential out of this I the pills show that John if you if you take the controversial figure of John of Donald Trump out of the equation and you look at what we've talked about both in the past and currently what's your attitude On the Border what's your attitude about defense spinning what's your attitude about the Middle East what's your attitude about what happened in Afghanistan what's your attitude about crime and defunding the police what's your attitude about energy versus cutting back on fossil fuel it it's not even close it's 55 60% uh are traditionals now when you put Donald Trump into the equation and you even though he would be his four years were vastly Superior because of what the media has done to him in his own controversial nature then it it gets problematic and that's something that the Republicans will have to deal with and just as the Democrats are going to have to deal with Joe Biden and come out to Harris so if we take the personalities out of it and you see what the issues are the country is center right it always has been and it's never more so now but to to reify that or to translate that into a political figure or a political party gaining power to enact that cerite agenda is another thing altogether given the media and the personalities all we just had a fascinating thing in Australia happen we had a very heated very difficult National conversation uh at the behest of a I have to say a very small group of Australian indigenous people um a suggestion that we insert a group right for extra capacity to advise governments departments bureaucrats Etc on policy for indigenous Australians on the surface of it it looked very popular but as people realized it meant abandoning the central principle of the equality of all Australians in the Constitution thin edge of the wedge it was overwhelmingly rejected by the people despite having the support of the government and the prime minister of the day uh all of what are now called liist the elites the big corporates were all lined up put a heap of money into it Hector Ordinary People Academia the universities disgraced themselves the sporting clubs and the Australian people said no and actually the biggest reason they gave is we don't want to be divided it was an act of anti-racism yes same thing happened here in California the most liberal State we had something called prop 16 uh four years ago and it was to resurrect uh racial preferences and we are there is no majority in California it's 43% Hispanic and about 42% white about 177% Asian about 5% African-American and it was overwhelmingly defeated and then we had this rep reparations movement that the governor was for he had the legislature was for the elites were for and it just imploded because Hispanics Asians and white all minorities said this doesn't it just opens a can WS everybody has a grievance against somebody rather than go back six Generations and see who's who's the victim and who's the victimizer throughout six Generations it was incoherent and so I think when you see those issues crystallized uh and it's not even it's not even a contest it's it's a cerite rectifi reply to The Madness of the left the last 20 years but the the key ingredient is I don't know how the cerite translates that into charismatic effective leadership because it's so dispersed itself and it's trying to ReDiscover whether it's National populist or traditional I don't think it's traditional in our country republicanism but yet uh they don't really know what it is and they're looking for a leader that can unite the party and you know we we'll see what happens it's a very volatile time and I I think Joe Biden's advisor I'm not sure Joe Biden is cognizant of it they understand it very well and they are pushing the Democratic leftist Elite especially in V Israel in a direction where it does not want to go but they sense that the rank and file Democratic voter and the rank and file American they don't want to go against them and they're afraid of and so now they're for the first time they're they're acting like a JFK or they're forced to play even a Bill Clinton rather than a Barack Obama and I I I think well Barack Obama just incidentally John has taken a great deal of criticism in the media not just the conservative media from the leftwing media because his idea of balancing out Israel and the gulf monarchies and perhaps Egypt uh in Jordan by pushing the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt pushing radicalism but especially this Iran Hezbollah Assad Hamas Crescent and this was going to bring on Creative tension in which the United States would step back and adjudicate the Yang and the Yang the wolf and the warp and playes without any consideration of humanity and that we were dealing with a democratic human Israel put at the mercy of this Crescent I think and you know we had Robert Mali as I said in the Iran deal and supporting morsy and I think his spokesman was erdoan Obama brag that my conduit the Middle East Mr ero Yan who's an ottoman an ottoman revivalist that is completely blown and everybody now is he he didn't want to say anything about this and he was damned by The Wall Street Journal all the liberal papers in addition to the Wall Street Journal finally Obama came out and said 72 hours I deplore what Hamas did took him 72 hours but my point is that that is a discredited idea now and so out of this terrible tragedy I think it's a wakeup call not to be vindictive or just rash but to say wow we were going in a direction had we headed in that direction we were going to be in big trouble we were not going to have a border we were going to have millions of unassimilated immigrants that didn't like the the West we were flat broke and we didn't treat our allies very well and we treated our enemies as if they were neutrals at best and maybe friends and this is not sustainable and we're going to go back and I think recalibrate I hope that's true I think there's a great public demand for it I'm tempted to say God bless Middle America but the issue then becomes as you've said uh because it's must have same in Australia in my view uh there's a sort of a triple set of questions in there firstly um is there anybody on the scene now who can really capture that and take advantage of it and drive it Forward given that you got presidential elections tomorrow um secondly will there' be sufficient uh acquiescence from the lunatics that we've been talking about who have lost their moral compass to let it happen and thirdly and this is a really important one will people sense again that such a thing as public duty and if you've got leadership capacity and so forth and you ought to be exercising it will they step up there's one thing to say that the citizenship is um if You' like marginalized and push to one side and disincentive it's another to say well they need to step up and take it back yeah so I guess the issue now is as you you've alluded to it um how do we crystallize this how do we try and ensure that we've got the emerging leaders they're getting the support they need they can be heroes in their time and and relish that over trying to get on with a quiet life and just keep their heads down and survive because that's no good to anyone yeah that question came I did an interview not longer with terer Carlson he asked that and I suggested to him and I think he agreed that this on the right this monastery of the mind I use that term made it up this idea that the system is going to hell and you're going to move to Tennessee or you're going to move to rural Idaho or you're not going to get out of California while you can you're not going to watch the emies you could care less about the latest Hollywood movie you don't you haven't turned on the NBA in 20 years that type of stuff you don't even know who won the Oscar you just drop out of culture you say you know what the left controls all the institutions 8 through 12 Education Corporation I don't go to Disney land that kind of stuff I don't think it works and when you get engaged and you hold Disney to account or anheiser bush or Target or you start calling out these professors then things start happening and whether it's on the women's movement to stop biological males destroying years of achievement and records and stuff and they find they wake up and they find out wow we're powerful we're the majority they have the institutions but we have the people and I that's just a very slowly it's kind of like a proverbial Dragon that's waking up and finds out he's powerful and all the people that were rid and I think somebody the question is uh what we're seeing on the Republican side because that's where it's the conservative movement is you've got three figures I think that are that are viable you've got Donald Trump and you've got Ronda santz and Nikki Haley and what's interesting nobody is running on McCain Romney GE Bush return to doctrinaire republicanism it's more of a Middle America populous inclusive we are going to be a un Unity party and the one who will win is the one who can say and they're all they're all they all know this I can get the old Mega base I can bring along the mega but I can also appeal to people who may have had reservations if a Donald Trump Trent gets some migga base but the question is can he get out of jail or if they put him in it is he going to be viable and can he can he moderate his his personality so he can pick up people who agree wholeheartedly with his agenda but they get turned off for a tweet and then canron desanta say you know what I can be Donald Trump without being Donald Trump I can bring in his magga but I can appeal to the Suburban mom and then Nikki Haley her challenge is I can appeal to the Suburban mom but does the magga Bas trust me as a genuine conservative so they're all they all know what has to be done and I think those one of those three or combination of those three will get the nomination looks like everybody says Donald Trump will be the nominee he may well be but they haven't figured out how to everybody knows it's a political in Vendetta against him everybody knows it's designed to destroy him financially psychologically Pol Al but none of his supporters know how to stop it on the left I I mean there is an an 80-year-old president that's suffering cognitive decline and there's no other alternative to him Robert Kennedy is now an independent Bernie Sanders is a socialist that's out of Vogue and he's is older older than Biden and CA Harris scares the left if she were to be president so they are in disarray and I don't think that Joe Biden will be viable as a as it for the next five and a half years if that should happen so we're in a big well I guess what I'm trying to say very inelegantly that we're in a period of chaos on personalities and the inaction of these agendas but we're not chaotic about what needs to be done everybody knows what needs to be done we're just waiting for the person who can best articulate that and appeal to people on a personal level to do it and I think that's good news for the world because on the one hand people say we do not want to go into an optional war in the Middle East on the ground and I think everybody in the world thinks that's smart but on the other hand we're not going to sit behind and let the forces of totalitarianism hurt our friends and our own interest and I think we can do that in a way given our technology and our strategy that we don't have to go into fight Hamas on hamas's tur and we can and uh I think Donald Trump to his credit showed us with Soloman and with Isis he destroyed them uh and Iran did not do anything and I I I there would be no way Hamas was doing this between 2017 and 2 uh January of 21 they had a small War but they never did anything like this and I don't think Vladimir Putin would have gone into Ukraine and I don't think that CH China would have sent a balloon and and just because they he was unpredictable and they thought the United States would be very it would be a dangerous thing to tempt it and I think we want to get back to that it doesn't mean we have to have the trumpian rhetoric but he set a model I think everybody says Wow 2014 a Biden Administration back to the Trump Administration back the George W bush bogg down that you they moved in Ukraine the Russians did 2017 to 20 they did not why uh Iran talking like they're going to just do this and do this and do this to us suddenly for four years they're quiet and everybody said if you move the embassy to Jerusalem if you say that the Golem height shall be is Israeli if you cut off the 700 million to the Palestinian if you say that you're not going to give one dime to Hama you can't do that and he did it and nothing happened and everybody and that was because we were strong and reliable and I think we'll be that way again and I think our once we if we were to do that then allies like Australia can be assured that they don't have to go out in a limb that's the real that's the real issue isn't it because when we step back then Japan and Australia and Taiwan and they're confronted with the China they'll say look United States is in Decline you better cut a deal with us or at least understand understand that we're here and then it we can't ask countries that don't have the wherewithal to stand up to these Global bullies and when we step back we put them in an impossible situation but when we step up and we say we're not asking you to be at the point of the steer but we're asking all of us to have shared interest and to sacrifice together in deterring these people then we're always surprised how many allies we have I and I don't know why we don't understand that lesson some presidents down it some but you can't put allies in a position where they have to profess 100 and 10% solidarity with the United States when the United States doesn't believe in itself and it's going to put them in Jeopardy for that for that falty and that's just a law of diplomacy and I think to our blame we didn't understand that we we used to understand it we we lost that I think it'll come back again that we won't do that again I'm hoping well Victor you've given us some incredible insights uh I know you're busy and can't be with us for the ark conference in London Arc Forum Ark stands for Alliance of responsible citizens yes uh the name does actually reflect some of your thinking and that is quite deliberate because we're talking about on the one hand trying to remove some of the powerful disincentives for decent people who want to be involved but feel are going to be cancelled uh at the same time we want to encourage Heroes to step up the very things we've been talking about uh and personally I'm I've been inest in it from day one seriously hoping that it helps build a movement that's not just about America it's about us believing in democracy which of course in the context of our conversation today we need to remember has deep Jewish roots it does the whole idea of the sort of Exodus let my people go we will enter into Covenant mental arrangements so much better than contractual we'll be citizens we'll meet responsibilities to one another and to higher ideals or higher authority if you want to put it that way uh and we're faced with people who despise that line of Cooperative thinking and empowerment of citizens so there's a lot of work to do I can't thank you enough for your time today but more generally for your incredible contribution to our thinking I'm very confident I'll just end on a note I meant the Hoover institution or center right but we also have a lot of leftwing people uh we have paleocons neocons isol they have everybody libertarian and right after this happened in Hamas our director condalisa rice we had a big Retreat scheduled that evening for 400 overseers of all different and she just said before we meet we're all going to walk over to the Hoover Tower and I'm going to address you and it was a very powerful weand with the israelii people and there is no excuse for this and Hamas is going to pay it was part Old Testament part New Testament but it was a moral Clarity and she said it in front of the entire donor piles and it was met with overwhelming approval there were people crying and this is a very these are hardcore business people very well off and they wanted to hear that and and they thought you know a university head or a than tag doesn't talk like that because it's on one you know better than I the mush that we get on the one hand on the other yes but it was very clear she did and it it met with an overwhelming response and that really I think reminds us that when people do that people react to that positively that's what they're yearning for is what you called moral Clarity or you know we've had a moral Clarity we know what is bad now because they've shown this true colors and H and on our campuses but we haven't had moral Clarity in a positive sense this is what we stand for and now we kind of we're in that transition we're not those people we don't believe what they do but what do we believe in and I think now we're starting to go back and it's not a brain science that's what we are the judeo-christian tradition we've got a whole 2 200 years to guide us and I think it's going to be I think we have a chance for a real Western Renaissance if everybody steps up according to their station and says you know I can't drop out anymore I can't just move away I can't just divorce myself from the popular I've got to get into the arena and I think a lot of people are going to get into the arena that's a beautiful phrase if everyone steps up according to their POS their station yeah uh leadership is required at every level and one thing we do have to end is this obsession with the idea that the greatest virtue is autonomy it's about self we live in community none of us have a life if we try and take the doctrine of the individual to absurd limits it's absolutely right it seems to me there's a rethink there required by every one of us not just by our leaders yeah 2300 years ago when AR Aristotle listed all the virtues that were necessary for the citizen he said that of course there's only one that matters and that's courage without courage you have no virtue you have to have courage so we all have to step up and address and we can do it this next coming weeks because there's going to it's going to be very I keep using that word medieval and it's going to require a lot of people to articulate what's going on and and what Israel has to do for its survival and I think for the West in general to send a message and it's not going to be a pretty message but it's it's vitally necessary and we're going to have to stand up and stand with Israel I think at this particular case with without equivocation and face criticism and welcome criticism welcome say you do your worst and we'll do our best and we'll see who win well what one final request for a thought from you uh your reaction to if I were to put it on the table that it's my belief that this the the the objectives of so many radical islamists to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth if we were to allow that to happen the world would be in infinitely more dangerous place as I see it and we need to focus no we do we need to be realistic wipe it off the face of the Earth allow that to happen and all of us are much less safe no I think we have to they have to be told the people in tran and also some people in the Arab world if you think you're going to do that and you think all of this reic where we have Maps now where there's no Israel it's all I think there was one in representative Omar's office where she had no Israel on it if you think you're going to get away with that you're sorely mistaken because people will fight you and they will win and uh that's why this it's very important that Iran not get a nuclear weapon if they had a nuclear weapon right now it would be disastrous and I think I think people are going to think about that in a way they've never thought about it before in the next few weeks and it's going to be it's going to be some tough decision making I think people in the west have to Rally together and say the idea of Iran with a nuclear weapon it cannot be deterred in a way that even North Korea can be deterred because it has an in instinctual existential desire to destroy Israel and the Jewish people and we cannot let that happen if people ourselves and I think that'll I I'm confident that we'll rise to the challeng well thank you so very very much for your time one final um cond Lisa's R cond Lisa Rice's address was it recorded is it accessible I don't know you might go on our Hoover website it was a very we had candles and we had a couple of Jewish fellows that came in and spoke but what was uh what was remarkable about it was not not it it wasn't what you hear on campuses I know that we're a think tank but we are part of Sanford University so it could be very controversial but what she said was we are going to mourn these innocent people who were slaughtered but we're not going to be Mor equivalent there were people who did this and what they did was barbaric and we're going to condemn it and I thought that was and she mentioned Hamas by name it was very moving and I think there's no more hard-nosed people than the American businessman he has to be and uh they were moved to tear some of them and they were uh it really didn't affect and I think it's resonated throughout our own institution that people are united now that uh we have a lot of differences at at Hoover but now we're saying where the voice of Sanity all of us are and what's going on at Stanford they are they're in big trouble unless they emulate what we're doing and what our director did and what we stand for and I think that's that is moral Clarity and I think all of these uh people higher education doesn't know their own Peril there's they they've lost if you look at all polls they have almost no support anymore and they better step up and and talk about morality for a change rather than what's convenient and supposedly in their own interest because it's not it's counterproductive people are tired of them and I think that's true of Western Elites in General on the left people are saying these people are hypocritical they're selfish they're self-indulgent they're narcissistic and they're they're toxic and we we're not going to turn over the controls of our institutions to them it's going to be a very hard are deeply brought in but we're going to have I think we're can win it well perhaps Roger scrutin was right when he said that universities are really I'm paraphrasing dug their own Graves they've lost so much support they've become so bad they've become so relevant they're doing such disservice The Staggering thing about them is they pomp us or I think people could forgive them if they were obnoxiously political if they did their job and they were turning out graduates in four years but speak well and write well and think inductively but they can't do that they don't want to do it so people say you compounded your failure to educate people which we needed to have happen by your crazy weaponizing of the the discourse and your intolerance and you're arrogant but you're also ignorant and we don't that's intolerable there's nothing that justifies your politic because you haven't produced anything of value to us You' destroyed a whole generation as education and so if they were if the United States was turning out brilliant graduates that were had language facility and inductive reasoning out of a four-year College then people would say well it's kind of like the 50s they kind of naive socialist they're not they're hardcore marxists or worse and they have not taught anybody anything these kids that are graduating or in debt but they're very ignorant they they they were short chained Victor your insights have been invaluable one of our previous conversation went literally to millions of people nothing to do with me I'm hoping your insights go to millions of people out of this one I hope so thank you [Music] John

Channel: John Anderson Media

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Length: 69min 52sec (4192 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 20 2023