Individuality and Autonomy: Maxime Bernier and the PPC | Maxime Bernier | The JBP Podcast - S4: E:46

but you know the mainstream media is canceling us and just recently because uh we are growing in the pool that they are speaking about us but that growth was ordinary canadian using their social media speaking to their families their friends about the bbc because our biggest challenge right now is still a lot of people don't know that we exist don't know that there's another option and we didn't have that conversation during that electoral campaign all the other political parties agree with vaccine passports and lockdowns and we are the only one but we were not part of that national uh debate in the mainstream media and yes you're right after this election we'll have a couple of candidates that will be elected and i i believe that i'll be able to be re-elected in my riding in bose and we'll have that conversation and the mainstream media won't be able to ignore us anymore hello everyone i'm pleased to have with me today one of the contenders for the prime ministership of canada the honorable maxine bernier the leader of a new canadian political party the people's party of canada he was minister of industry minister of foreign affairs and minister of state for small business and tourism in stephen harper's conservative government and he was an mp for the writing of bose for 13 years and is currently running for election there in 1985 mr bernier earned a bachelor of commerce degree from the university of quebec montreal and entered law at the university of ottawa he was called to the quebec bar in 1990 he worked for a variety of financial and banking institutions before becoming executive vice president of the montreal economic institute in 2005. he ran for leadership of the progressive conservative party in 2017. that's generally canada's dominant or second place party finishing second to andrew scheer who the current pc leader progressive conservative leader aaron o'toole replaced maxime founded the ppc in 2018 citing disagreements with shir's leadership mr bernie and i came into personal contact during the controversy surrounding canada's bill c-16 which purported to protect the rights of trans individuals but was regarded by me and others as a as a threat to free speech um i invited aaron o'toole the current pc leader to this podcast uh he had other commitments and declined and i invited mr bernier and he agreed to talk so we get to meet again and so it's really good to see you and thanks very much for agreeing to talk thank you mr peterson jordan i'm very pleased to be with you and you're right by saying that the first time we were in contact it's when i called you in 2017 because now i know that i did a mistake at that time i voted for that bill c-16 and i didn't know a lot about that that was the party position of the conservative party of canada at that time and i voted in line with the party line but after that some of my friends told me maxima i believe that you did a mistake that deal it's not only about gender identification it's about free speech and you must have a discussion with mr peterson and we had a phone conversation at that time and you uh you explained me the impact of that deal and i was admitted that you are right uh and i was wrong at that time but i was a little bit naive about all that transgender and cultural next marxism and all that walk culture because jordan when i decided to be in politics i just as you just said in my bio i was more a kind of an economist i work only three years as a lawyer in a big law firm in montreal but after that i worked in a financial institution and i was working for the montreal economic institute that's a think tank a free market think tanks in montreal and i was vp over there so when i decided to be in politics i decided to be in politics for a smaller government more freedom less government intervention and more free markets uh you know i was that's why i decided to go in politics and all that uh cultural marxism and now that world culture i didn't know anything about that and what i liked when i was a minister was to do a deregulation in the telecom industry um and professor schultz at university mcgill said that i was the best minister of industry for the last 30 years because of that deregulation so more competition prices went down for the telecom and cell phone uh but uh all that was not part also of my platform for the leadership of the conservative party of canada in 2017. my platform was very more a kind of a conservative libertarian less government believing in people not in big fat government and i had something about extreme multiculturalism at that time and also on immigration but uh you i was in in contact with all that wall culture and bill c-16 after a discussion that we had and now today today it's part of my campaign it's part of the of the people's party of canada and i'm speaking about it every day because it's a reality it's a sad reality of our country right now yeah well a lot of that sort of legislation is a wolf in sheep's clothing because it purports to be kind and compassionate and to be solely for the benefit of people who are oppressed in some unfair manner but there are uh sharks and crocodiles lurking beneath the surface and um it's it's not necessarily that easy to see them and i think that's really been hard on center thinkers and and people who are more on the right as well because they get defeated often before they even have a chance to speak because the woke crowd is extraordinarily good at setting the stage for the political discussion we saw a lot of that in the debate for example in the last leaders debate you upset to write on that and that's why now we are the only national political party that has a policy on gender identity can you believe that um for me uh you know back five years ago for me that was not an issue but now it's an issue and we are speaking about that when you have legislation or here in canada when you have men that are saying that they're a woman with and going to a prison for for for women in the same prison uh you you have you have that in canada and when you have men that are in a competition against women in sport and that's supposed to be normal so so that's why we needed to have a policy on that in our platform and that's a policy that is very popular because we go back to the common sense and i think there's a lack of common sense in our country right now the common sense is not that common these days but i'm speaking about it openly and more and more people can understand that we want to live in a free society when you don't have any racial politics or identity politics or gender issues like that so you've you founded the people's party of canada in 2018 that's is that correct and and that was dissatisfaction in part with the leadership of andrew scheer and with the conservative platform in general and so it's a radical move just to start a new political party and of course people have pointed out and i'm sure you were aware of this regardless that one of the risks of doing that is that you split the vote and that as a consequence you move the probability of power more into the hands of people whose policies you might not agree with and so why do you why did you think that it was worth why did you think it was necessary worth the risk and necessary and do you feel this is a few years later that that you were justified in that assumption yes i i believe that it was the the best political decision in my political career i'm very pleased that we did it but yes at that time when i was a conservative and that was just after the leadership contest in 2017 i didn't win with 49 of the vote and i try and we we had a very popular platform very popular conservatives free market smaller government and and after a couple of months i believe maybe 12 months i was trying at that time to have the leadership of the conservative party of canada to to take some of our ideas that were very popular with the membership of the conservative party of canada and andrew scheer said publicly that you know when i'm speaking about policies i'm speaking only for myself i not engage the party and the platform for the next election the 2019 after that will be a platform very different than the platform that i ran on for the for the con for the leadership of the conservative party of canada so i said why staying with the political party and running at the election of 2019 with a party when you don't believe in that platform and for me that party was not conservative centrist and a little bit centered to the left and i said when i resigned this party the conservative party of canada is intellectually and morally corrupt and that's why i created the people's party of canada based on four principles individual freedom personal responsibility respect and fairness and and all our policies are in line with these principles and we don't do politics by survey or polling we believe that we have the right vision for this country and we are speaking about what we believe openly with passion and conviction and i believe that i will be able to have more support but in the election like you just said jordan the 2019 election that was the first election for the people's party of canada and i didn't win by seating vote i was running as the leader and people's party candidate we had 1.6 of the vote 300 000 people voted for us but for our first year we did better than the green party of canada because it took the green party of canada uh 20 20 elects 20 years and six elections to have more than 1.6 of the vote and we did that in our first year but the biggest argument coming from the conservatives again against us was the fact that oh don't vote for bernie you'll you'll divide the vote you're going to split the vote and and i can tell you that was very efficient i saw people out west and all across the country maxime we like your ideas we like your platform but our most important uh goal is to get rid of justin trudeau we don't want to split the vote so we won't support you that argument was very efficient but now we know that you know they voted for some conservatives voted for the conservative party and in russia and they end up with justin trudeau and now you have the same argument in 2021 but it is less effective because aaron utulno is more leftist than andrew scheer and the party if you look at the platform of the liberal party of canada and the conservative they're the same on imposing a vaccine passport work culture not balancing the budget i can go on and go on so people realize now a little bit more then you know if you vote for bernie it is not a vote for the liberals it is a vote for yourself for your values and and if aaron utol is winning he will be like justin trudeau on the most important issues for the future of our country so that argument is less effective and i believe that's why also we are growing in the polls right now as you know the election will be this monday and uh i'm speaking about our freedom and speaking about the fact that we have draconian measures that are that these government not only the federal one but the provincial one provincial ones are imposing on us and and that freedom of speech freedom of expression freedom of choice is very important in this campaign and we are able to grow our support i don't know what will be the result at the end of this campaign but i can feel a kind of a momentum and we'll see what will happen where where do you think you are in the polls right now what what do you think's a reliable figure yeah so we don't do any internal polling we don't do that we don't believe in that i'm looking at the public polls and we are between seven percent nationally to 11 12 nationally in some provinces like in ontario we are around 8 in alberta around 10 so i believe that we can have maybe a strong six or seven percent of the vote and if we have that from 1.6 to six or seven percent that would be a big victory if we have that score we will have more votes than the green party of canada because since the beginning of that campaign the green party is around three and four percent and us we started that campaign at 1.6 like now we are around 6 7 and maybe 12 so we'll be able to do better than the green and maybe do better than the block quebecois that is a regional political party only in quebec they're at six percent in the polls so we the mainstream media and the political elites will have to speak about us and engage with us about our ideas so that will be the beginning uh for us of a new step and another step for for the growth of our party because this party is there for a long term and we won't merge with any party we will always fight for what we believe and pushing our ideas because like i said we are doing politics differently and it's not a slogan it's a reality usually when you're a politician you will speak about a subject when maybe 38 35 of the population is on that side because your goal is to have a majority and you'll start to speak about it and hope that you have 50 percent on one subject for us that's not important we are doing politics based on ideas and we believe that we have the best ideas like i said i'll give you an example you know speaking about ending the uh the the supply management system in canada that's a cartel for poultry dairy and milk these producers are fixing the price in canada cannot export and that's why canadians are paying twice the price for milk full tree and eggs in our country we want to abolish that and being sure that we will be it will be a free free market for these products but when i'm speaking about that you know the huge majority 70 percent of the population agree with that system so what we need to do we need to speak about it more often and more people will be on our side and that's the way we are doing politics we don't okay so let me ask you let me ask you about that so well okay i want to summarize some of the things you said see if i've got this right so your feeling is that uh that the conservatives in some sense because they're doing politics by pull are drifting into the center and the center left and and yes and you are providing an alternative set of ideas and you think that the provision of that set of ideas is important enough to canadians broadly speaking that taking the risk of dividing the vote is a good short and long term measure these ideas need to be brought into the public forum and it's it's risky there's great risk in not doing it and and you also think that your party and so then why why is it as well that your party has decided that you're going to stick to your your philosophical platform let's say rather than being led by polls and and do you really think you can avoid doing that in in the long run our goal is not to be in power that's not the end goal yes i hope everybody will be elected but our end goal is to speak about our ideas and when they will become popular and we know that you know an idea an idea will become popular if you speak about it so the more we speak about it the more support we'll have and the more candidates will be elected so the conservative they're they are only conservative in name right now and what are new tool is doing by speaking like the leftists and and and and and using that narrative is not helping the real conservative cause and auto is not speaking about that because it is not popular today we are in a socialist era in canada and in other countries so if your main goal is to be in government you you will you know there's about 70 60 percent of the populations in canada that are leftist so that's why the conservative is going to the left because the only goal is to be in government our goal is not to be in government i hope a day i'll be prime minister but i'm realistic our goal is to have increase our percentage of the vote to have some candidates that will be elected this election and growing our support and up the next election will be more powerful will be more candidates and that's why our electoral campaign for this election our electoral platform for this election is the same one than the last election in 2019 and it would be the same one in 2022 or at the next election because you know why do you why do you think these ideas are so important that so so canadians are going to often vote to throw someone out rather than to bring someone in let's say and maybe often that's how democracies function and it's hard to say whether that's a good thing or a bad thing um that that isn't what you're doing precisely you're trying to bring these ideas into a wider public forum why do you think that's so important and why do you think that you have the background knowledge to make that decision like right because you formed a party you're you're tr you're changing the political landscape in canada you're taking a big personal risk as well this isn't an easy thing to do so what is it that you're doing that you're offering that's so vital and important that all of that is worthwhile and and and why should canadians take that risk what happens if they if you don't do this that will happen we'll be in that leftist era for longer than we thought uh you know we have more and more draconian news measures right now i'm speaking about covington 19 uh you know in in alberta they will have uh a vaccine passport in quebec we have a vaccine passport in ontario we have a vaccine passport don't get me wrong i'm not again that vaccine you know everybody must be free to choose if they want the vaccine or not with the right information but right now we are imposing a vaccine passport so we are dividing the society in society into two groups you know the vaccinated people and the unvaccinated people and some of them will have more rights than other that that's not what we want in a free society everybody must be equal before the law and we know that everybody can spread the virus the vaccinated people and the unvaccinated people we know that if you took the vaccine you'll have mild symptoms if you have coven-19 and your chances of spreading the virus is a little bit minimum but everybody can spread the virus look at what is happening right now in israel and there's a lot of people there that took the vaccine and they can spread the virus so why i won't be able to go to a restaurant because i decided personally enough to take the vaccine i'm 58 years old and if i'm looking at the data and the statistic coming from our country from statistic canada i have 0.5 percent chances of dying if i have coven covid so my my survival rate is 99.5 so i decided not to take the vaccine but my dad is 87 years old diabetic and i encourage him to take the vaccine and the two shots and he did it so we just want people to be free and now i'm not able to go to a restaurant or to a baseball game because i didn't take the vaccine and everybody can spread it and i know that if i'm at a restaurant and the table just near me there's people who took the vaccine they're protected and they're not more in danger because i'm there so we must be fair for everybody and stop that kobe dysteria we need to learn to live with that virus he will be there we cannot have zero kovind 19 in one country it won't happen we need to learn to live with it if not we will live with more iniquity and and justice and i don't want that so so that's why you know so let me play let let me play devil's advocate for a minute i'll take our prime minister stated a couple of weeks ago i believe that pretty much had no sympathy for anyone who was unvaccinated who ended up in the hospital for example and you might say well the vaccines are widely available and so and people can get them whenever they want and so why in the world shouldn't they do it the science supports their utility these aren't my claims by the way the sign supports their utility and if they're too damn stupid to get the vaccine then why then they're limiting their own freedoms and everyone else's security is paramount okay so what's wrong with that argument in your view but it is wrong at that basis because first of all yes we are free to decide but what that argument what that argument is saying is if you want to be free you need to have the vaccine passport and that would create two kinds of citizens like i said in the beginning and that will create or show me your paper society that vaccinated people will have to show their papers to participate in the society and maybe unvaccinated people will have to show maybe a negative covet test to participate in the society we don't want that because because kavit is there there's no difference between me that i didn't take the vaccine another person if you if you decide if you decided to take the vaccine to protect yourself not the society now we have the the immunity that is there out there and yes there are some variants but the most important is we we must learn to live with that virus we're not must care people and now what justin trudeau is saying if you work for the federal government and you don't have your two shots you don't have the vaccine you don't have the vaccine passport he said you know there will be consequences that his words there would be consequences so he wants to punish people that decided not to take the vaccine you know everybody that's unconstitutional that's illegal you know your personal health choice must be private if your employer is asking you do you did you take the vaccine or not canadians must not answer that question it's your personal private health information and you must have that discussion with your doctor now the and you know all our personal information would be up there with that code qr that we have in quebec and vaccine passport they're gonna know your your your status your your age uh what what you're doing which institution you you are going it is a little bit like a social credit in china maybe i'm exaggerated yes but it's going to that direction and i don't like that you know i see in some countries i think it's australia where there's technology where now you have to take a snapshot of yourself in a particular locale at a particular time and that the phone can tell the people the authorities that you're reporting to if you're actually there and you know for for people who are concerned with governmental overreach the establishment of such technologies regardless of the rationale poses a substantial existential danger that's that's comparable in some sense to the health danger presented by the well by the pandemic and so that that that seems to be what you're suggesting i would say and so all right so let's let's talk about if what do you think canada should look like in three months then in relationship to covid so so you envision a completely open country fundamentally uh what is what what do you think we should do but i think we should do like in other countries or another state that didn't uh lock down their economy lock down people and and shut down their economy and thinking about florida with governor descenses texas and other countries what we did with kovite 19 just the fact that the true government with the 354 billion dollars that the trudeau government span because of kovind 19 that was the biggest deficit in our history and what he said he said you know he said to provinces you can lock down your province i will i will finance your economic loss i will give grants and subsidies to businesses for them to stay close and i will create a program for canadians that was not the solution it's a medical expert and the expert that signed the bollington declaration in the u.s said that you know we must we must yes lock down the most vulnerable canadians and that canadians older canadians with co-morbidities and open the economy that was a big mistake and now and now we are paying for that with our huge deficit we are paying for that because there's a lot of waiting lists for surgeries right now and we we lock down the economy suicide rates it's going up depression uh that was not the solution and i hope that right now or just after the election all these lockdowns and mass mandate that are imposing on people must end and that's that's an important fight for us for the people's party and i believe that this country must be more open no more lockdowns no more stay-at-home orders no more curfew in montreal during that uh the at the peak of the kuvin 19 crisis we had a curfew from eight o'clock p.m to five o'clock a.m and you know to fight a virus that's the first time in the history of the world that we do use lockdowns to fight a virus that was an experiment a failed experiment so my my vision for this country i hope will be open i hope that fear won't be them won't be there anymore that people understand that we can fight covet 19 with the vaccine and there's other medication i'm not an expert medical expert but i know that there's other medications we must promote other medication naturally or pharmaceutical one and and we must reopen the economy no mass mandate no lockdowns no vaccine passport and we must go back to our life like it was before the that kuvid 19 started okay so you're encouraging canadians in some sense to take the risk to vote for you and to vote for your new party because you believe that that particular side of the story let's say seriously needs to be told and that it needs to be told over and over and it needs to be part of the national discussion in parliament and all of that so canadians who agree with with the propositions that you just set forward if they vote for the ppc then they can be reasonably assured that their voice is at least going to be heard in the national debate otherwise as far as you're concerned the conservatives are basically going to put together something approximating a liberal platform and all of this argument libertarian argument in some sense for increased freedom and for return to essential normality and warning about government overreach that's not going to be part of the national conversation at all absolutely you're absolutely right about that and i try to to i try for for that conversation to be part of this elect of this election but you know the mainstream media is canceling us and just recently because uh we are growing in the pool that they are speaking about us but that growth was ordinary canadian using their social media speaking to their families their friends about the bbc because our biggest challenge right now is still a lot of people don't know that we exist don't know that there's another option and we didn't have that conversation during that electoral campaign all the other political parties agree with the vaccine passport and lockdowns and we are the only one but we were not part of that national debate in the mainstream media and yes you're right after this election we'll have a couple of candidates that will be elected and i i believe that i'll be able to be re-elected in my riding in bose and we'll have that conversation and the mainstream media won't be able to ignore us anymore well you know one of the things that we can talk about too is just exactly what we're doing right now is that increasingly as far as i can tell and i believe this is going to be the wave of the future and maybe this will transform politics into in relatively radical ways you can do what we're doing right now and just talk directly to people you can circumvent the media and that's going to be more and more the case and so i'm hoping that that will help us well that'll produce a in some sense a new breed of politician who speaks directly to people and isn't trying to craft their image so they look good when presented in you know in the sound bites that are characteristic of the legacy media there's just no reason for that anymore and so hopefully we'll see people present ideas that live or die on the strength of the idea that would be really nice so yeah that would be something and that's why we are using social media a lot and i believe the fact that we are very active on social media and i want to thank you also for giving me this opportunity to speak to your viewers the fact that we are more active on social media it is helping us and yes there's a lack of leadership in canadian politics politicians are following the polls and they try to tell you what you want to hear and you know like in that political campaign we have a huge deficit and they want to spend more and more money yeah okay so let's let's talk about that so i'm going to play devil's advocate again it's like well i thought about this and i can understand the dangers of both the debt and the deficit but but the fact that these debts are being racked up and the deficits as well seems to be characteristic of western democracies in general everyone seems to be doing it and so it isn't obvious that people will flee our currency because we're in a relatively weak economic position because of that because everyone's doing it and so um why can't we just get away with this why aren't we rich enough just to get away with it what what do you think the danger is and why do you think that your analysis of that danger is credible yeah because you know that deficit and more and will have more deficit because every traditional establishment parties a party are promoting more deficit more spending with money that we don't have but with borrowed money and and that will that will increase our deficit and update so why it's so important to balance the budget because it's not our children and grandchildren that will pay for these deficits it is us right now it is us right now and we are paying with the inflation tax inflation is a hidden tax instead of the government taking your own money in your own pockets and forcing you to give that to the government the government is telling you keep your money in your pocket but you won't be able to buy the same amount okay so let's let's walk through that so i first of all i think it might be useful just to distinguish for everyone the difference between the deficit and the debt yeah just so everyone knows the terminology and then i would like you to walk through why you think uh increased government spending at the deficit and debt level increases inflation and where that's showing up in in canadians lives okay first the deficit is the deficit of last year the deficit was 340 244 billion dollars and every day the government is spending more money that is collecting so every day that will add that deficit is going to the debt and every day we are adding to the debt so when i'm speaking about balancing the budget we are not speaking about paying the debts no we are just picking at no more deficit we don't want to increase the debt anymore so that's that that's very important but the other political parties are ready to have more deficit and that will put that will increase our debt so right now like i said we are paying because the inflation in canada it's 4.4.1 that's the official inflation in canada right now but if you do your grocery you know that the inflation the real inflation is bigger bigger than that five six percent inflation so that's why i said inflation is a hidden tax because with the same money that you have in your pocket you cannot buy the same amount of goods and services with that money your purchasing power is going down your standard of living is going down our prices are going up and everybody is poor so inflation is hidden tax and we are paying right now why don't you trust the official inflation rate figures why do you think it's higher than they they state and where do you think that's primarily showing up because the way that they calculate the inflation that's state canada and the bank of canada it's a basket of goods and services and in that basket they don't put everything so yes we have a four or five percent inflation in our grocery but globally statistic canada is telling off that it's 4.1 but 4.1 it is huge the bank of canada the bank of canada has an inflation target of 2 now it's more than 2 percent it's four point one percent but twenty percent inflation is no good ten percent inflation is not good two percent is not good we must have an inflation target of zero percent and if we have that the bank of canada won't be able to print money out of thin air and creating inflation because the inflation is is created by the bank of canada and so our goal as a political party we are the only political party that is speaking about monetary policy that it's important for the the the the well-being of canadians we want to have for the bank of canada a zero inflation target we want people to be able to keep that purchasing power so that's so we could we could talk about this in more straightforward terms too so let's say there is a four four to five percent inflation rate for the next five to ten years and what that means is that the average canadian savings are going to be cut in terms of their purchasing power by something exceeding 50 percent that would be over a five to ten year period so it doesn't sound like a lot for four to five percent but it compounds across time and it can add up to something substantial in no time flat hey so i got a question that's a little uh pushing the envelope a little bit um the cryptocurrency types you know the people who are uh pushing bitcoin bitcoin in particular make the extraordinarily radical claim that it would be better for everyone if the entire business of money was taken out of the hands of government permanently and that's essentially what bitcoin allows at least at the present time and so that means that central bankers and politicians would in principle assuming this this is actually a possibility would never be able to print money and they would never be able to inflate currency and uh what do you think about those sorts of cryptocurrency claims and and are well i'd like to know what you think about that i i agree with that i think they're right we have a fiat currency right now and and you know that's why this inflation and we are losing our possession power yes i believe i believe that we must all have more competition and the cryptocurrencies and the vidcon can be an alternative but personally i prefer a gold standard like we had in the 19th century here in canada because when you have a gold standard the central bank won't be able to print money out of thin air it's another way to control the the the central bank so and we had that before in the past in the 19th century and we was very that was very uh prosperous a time pressed per century so but but i'm not against the cryptocurrency i think we must have more competition you have to the right on that so so the the austrian economist the hayek types and and they they believe that the business cycle is actually the boom and bust business cycle is actually produced by the attempts by government to overspend in the face of so-called crises and that produces inflation and all and a variety of other factors that then produce the business cycle in terms this sequence of essential busts and boobs and so does that seem like a reasonable proposition to you or do you look at it differently than that no no i i think you're absolutely right jordan uh you know mrs rotbord that they're real economists and and they know that and they're the only ones that wrote about that and studied that and i believe yes the circle the circle that we have the the up and downs in the economy it's because of the central bank you know money is everywhere and if you create too too much money out of thin air you'll have inflation and distortion in the economy and boom and boost that we have uh so so i 100 percent agree with mrs rodbord hayek and uh and these economists so you know i think these are ideas just just we'll move a bit sideways here again i think a lot of what political leaders could do if they had the intellectual capacity would be to use forums like youtube to actually educate the public and i don't mean i don't mean i'm shaking my finger at you because you need to be educated i mean to walk people through the logic and to explain why these propositions are reasonable and to treat the public as if they're capable of engaging in actual intellectual exercise because my experience on youtube has been that they are to a massively surprising degree because i conduct these discussions with with with people i really admire and sometimes those people are really really smart and so the discussions go fast and deep and there's no evidence at all that people aren't following along and there's plenty of evidence that they really appreciate it and so so let's do this for a second so i would like you to contrast your preparation to be a leader of a political party and and a figure of authority who dares to discuss such issues economic issues let's say with that of trudeau and perhaps of o'toole like why are you the guy and not trudeau and an auto tool assuming well so let's go there yeah i'm doing just what you said you know i'm using social media youtube i have a youtube channel people's party of canada and you know everything that i'm telling you right now i said that in speeches 10 10 years ago on videos 10 years ago so that's what i believe i'm in politics because i believe in this idea these ideas and i want them to be successful so yes i believe i believe that canadians are intelligence and i'm saying always you know i don't try to appeal as a to you as a canadian voter to to your emotion i try to appeal to your intelligence you know like that discussion that we have uh you know it's very difficult to have that discussion uh in social media and all that the the debates that they had in canada and i was not part of that but maybe i met very happy not that i was not there because that was not a debate that was somebody for the media without any real discussion like we have right now so yes i'm doing politics differently and yes i believe that people are intelligent and i don't want to i don't see people like children that we must give them more security and more regulations and a bigger government that will control them yeah well i also think it's it's stunningly it's stunningly cynical on the part of political leaders to manage their their message you know because it means that there's no real faith in just direct discussion and maybe and maybe no capacity for that discussion to begin with i mean our prime minister has stated publicly that he's really not interested in monetary policy and what i read that i mean i read that two ways is one well three ways one how could you possibly say that and not notice what you just said and second well perhaps that's because you actually don't understand it and third it's because not only do you not understand it but you don't know how terrible it is that you don't understand it absolutely absolutely and they don't want to have these kind of debates about real issues uh and that's why our platform of the last election is the same one we won't change the issues because they're popular or not and there's a lack of leadership with politicians right now because they all they they all do politics by polling and survey and i remember i have an example in canada brian maroney maybe brian marley was not so good but the election of 1988 the election on the free trade agreement with the u.s when brian monroe decided to have that as a principal theme of his campaign he said it's important to have that freedom agreement for the prosperity of our country when he started that campaign in the polls the majority 66 percent of the population were against a free trade a free create free trade sorry with the u.s so the liberals the liberals and all the other party was where on the side of the majority of the population didn't want to educate the population but brownie brian only said it's important for the future all campaign on it and my and my goal is i will be able to convince canadians on that and he was able to do that at the end of the campaign he had the biggest majority in canadian history and that was a referred on on the free trade agreement with the u.s that's only an example with brian maroney about that i'm not telling you that he was the better the greatest prime minister that we had but that's an example sorry example of doing politics based on principle and leadership but we don't have that right now in canada a question i discussed with rex murphy uh i talked to rex earlier this week and posted his analysis of the of the debate so let's start a couple of things came out of that that i thought were real interesting the first is uh the debate itself featured five main topics and hypothetically those are the most important issues facing canadians so that was uh let me see if i've got this right well there was leadership and accountability there was climate change there was reconciliation there was affordability uh into which everything to do with the economy was lumped and then the last one i believe was covid policy and when i looked at that i thought well the choice of the topics is actually the debate and so what one of the things i really wanted to ask you is okay you're assessing something extraordinary complex which is the state of the country it's like okay what what are the most important issues facing canadians as far as you're concerned what do you think we should be what do you think we should be concentrating on i think we we might just have a discussion about yes kobe 19 and the impact of kobe 19 and all these uh measures that these governments are imposing to us that must be very important second we must have a discussion in canada about our immigration policy they are afraid to speak about that you know that's important when you believe in mass immigration four hundred thousand people a year that will come to our country after two years it is the population of nova scotia a new nova scotia every two years but the worst of that it's the big majority of them are refugees or people coming on the reunification of family so i want to have a discussion on immigration because i love my country i want my country to be like that in 25 years i don't want my country to be like in france when there's no go zone over there people must come to our country and share our values and they must know that men and women are equal before the law we must have a discussion about them and we must welcome them but instead of having the majority of our immigrants refugees and re-education of family we our immigration policy must be in line with our economic needs and it is not the case actually right now so that's why we want fewer immigrants and more more skilled immigrants economic immigrant that will come here they will have a job they will be able to integrate our society easily and so we don't have that discussion it's always more and more and if you have that discussion people will look at you oh you're xenophobe you may be racist no actually we had that discussion in quebec as you know i'm coming from quebec that discussion about immigration because for quebec their francophone entity is very important and at the last election lego that was elected and is the premier of quebec now said during the election he won 20 fewer immigrants nobody said that he was a racist and he said these people must come here and it would be better if they can speak french if not we must be able to give them a french lesson and so we had a discussion at the provincial level in quebec but in canada for the first time at the last campaign we started that discussion so i think it's important for the future of this country to have that discussion it's important to have for the future of this country to have the discussion on balancing the budget like i said we don't have this discussion and it's sad okay so you identified covid immigration budget i mean the climate change issue the tremendous amount of time was spent on that and and that that drags up the 30 issue let's say of alberta and and well in canada's canada is what the the largest that that we've been shown by divine providence so to speak to give us these immense oil reserves and so we have this industry and and that's under assault in some sense as a consequence of concern about climate change and so albertans are feeling the pressure of that sort of discussion so what what do you think about what do you think about all that what's the way forward well we must smile you're absolutely right jordan we must have a discussion also on on the paris accord and climate change we have that discussion right now but it's only on one side and we are the only political party that is saying no to the paris accord we believe that there's no climate emergency yes the climate is changing and it will always change and we we believe that we can do better thing better actions for the environment uh and i said you know we won't impose a carbon tax we won't sign the paris accord what we will do we will be we will do concrete actions for the environment like uh you know we still have lakes in our country that are not clear and i'll i'll let the climate change uh battle at the provincial level because the beauty of that is the environment is a shared jurisdiction in canada with the federal and the provincial government so let provincial government deal with it and us at the federal level will have other policies but the one that we don't discuss also is our equalization formula and i think and i believe it is important for the prosperity of our country but also for the unity of our country when you have jordan about 30 of the population in alberta that want to separate because they believe that the equalization formula that is a formula that is redistributing wealth in this country from rich provinces to poor provinces they think that it's unfair and i believe that they have a right to say that i think they think it's particularly unfair when the equalization payments are the way they are and the province is simultaneously demonized for the very economic uh engine that allows those equalization payments to be a reality that's a bit much right to to have to pay and then to be criticized for how you raise the money so yes yes and that's another point that's why they're not happy with that but the traditional politicians the other political parties don't want to speak about that because they need to have a solution and the solution and they don't want to speak about the solution because you have to educate the population the solution is what to be less generous we need to do a distribution it is in the constitution we need to have a formula but the federal government is in charge of that formula and the federal government can decide how much money it will give to other provinces to have not provinces and we can be less generous because now there's no incentive for quebec or new brunswick to develop their own natural resources there's a lot of shell gas in quebec and newborns if they do that they would be more prosperous and they receive fewer money from the equalization formula i was in new brunswick and i'll give you an anecdote at the last campaign and i did a rally over there and i spoke about the equalization formula i said we must cut it we must must be less generous to give the right incentive to your parents to be to exploit extract their own natural resources and that formula is unfair and a journalist from cbc was there that at that rally and they they asked me after that mr bernie i want you with me live tomorrow morning at seven o'clock i said i'll be there and when i was there the discussion she said would be only on the equalization from milan you have three minutes i said okay she start you you want to cut the equalization formula i said not cutting all the formula but i want to be less generous do you know mr bernie that here in newborns week half of our budget is coming from the equalization formula i said yes i know that half of the provincial budget i know that so mr bernie i don't understand you you want to have support here in new new brunswick you want people to vote for you and you are telling them that you will cut half of their provincial budget i said yes i said yes i will do that but on a transition period because i believe in your people you're not a poor province here you're a rich province you have bad economic policy at the financial level and we need to give the right incentive to your province to have more free markets develop develop more your natural resources that you have but we'll do that on a transition period and that will be fair for everybody and every province so you need to have the courage of your conviction and having discussion like that but the other political parties don't want to speak about that because they will have to speak like that in new brunswick and in quebec and they're pandering to these provinces for votes so and it's important for me because in a country canada and in western canada they know that that formula is not fair and i'm saying the same thing in french in quebec and in atlantic canada and all across the country and that's why i believe we have a lot of support in western canada because they know that we have the solution they are not happy with ottawa right now and they have great reason for not being happy so you talked about small government you talked about balancing the budget and so let's talk about concrete issues there so where is the government federally being particularly profligate and what would you do or what do you think should be done how do you analyze the problem and what do you think would go a long ways to solving it yeah so so what i think i i i believe that we must respect the constitution it's all about our constitution we have a good constitution a great constitution the problem is politicians don't respect our constitution if you do that you will have a radical decentralization in canada you will give more autonomy to alberta and every provinces and you know if in alberta they want to have their police force like in quebec they will be able to have that if in alberta they want to have more private delivery for health cares healthcare services they would be able to have that if they want to have their own pension plan they would be able to have that so let's have a radical decentralization and like that you won't have any constitutional crisis and you have more prosperity so that's our vision of our country that is based on on the division that the father of our constitution uh had in 1867 okay so so you see decentralization as a way of promoting economic experimentation at least in part but you also think that it would take some of the pressure off regional concerns and what about what about federal spending per se i mean what is it that the government's spending poorly where is government spending being conducted particularly poorly and what do you think should be done about that and what kind of what kind of numbers are we looking at yeah absolutely so you're right about giving more autonomy to provinces and i want them to be able to raise their money for their own responsibility so but the the federal government has a role and the role of the federal government is to be sure that you know we'll be able to invest in our canadian forces we are in charge of the monetary policy we need to have a real economic union in this country that we don't have and and to be able to do all that we need to cut spending uh you know i believe that we must not give subsidies to businesses we must have a policy that would be fair every business must have a flat tax of 10 so i don't believe it's fair to tax a small business in toronto and forcing these entrepreneurs to pay taxes and after that we are giving that to gm or bombardier let's have let's abolish that we can save about eight to ten billion dollars so we want to have a smaller government that will spend in their jurisdiction and and let provinces deal with their own responsibility you know we are transferring in canada 41 billion dollars to provinces for healthcare i don't want to do that healthcare is a 100 provincial jurisdiction we must be sure that ontario and every province will be able to raise money for their own responsibility and we know that the best government is the government that is near the people so to do that instead of the federal government taxing people and after that giving that to provinces and sometime with conditions we must abolish that and we must give them the gst actually we are raising in canada 41 billion dollars with the gst we must do a tax point transfer the gst will be managed by provinces and they will be able to raise money for the healthcare and they will be independent they won't be able to come to ottawa for us asking for more money all the time so they will be in a position for healthcare for example to find the best system for their citizen is it more money in a socialist system or maybe more competition and and and canadians will know who to blame for a lack of services in healthcare and for waiting uh list now they don't know who to blame is it the federal government because the federal government is not giving enough money to provinces or is it the province because they're not able to manage efficiently their health care system so the pressure will be on the provinces and they will have all the tools and the responsibility to deal with it and maybe we'll have competition maybe in quebec you'll have more private delivery maybe in altar you'll have less and the best system will the best system will come and like in other countries when you have an universal coverage but people can choose to go to a private delivery a private clinic or a public hospital we don't have the best system for that but it's under the provincial jurisdiction i cannot change the system but i can give the incentive for them to change it by giving them the the the gst they will raise that tax and they will keep that tax and all the incomes coming from the gst and they will be responsible so let's turn to just briefly if if you don't mind we'll turn to another topic of the debate so a fifth of the debate was about reconciliation and canada's flags have been flying at half-mast for six months or something like that and um my sense of that part of the debate was that none of the real issues were ever discussed um and so this is i think of reserves in some sense the canadian reserves are the vast majority of them as akin in to the small towns in canada that have been absolutely devastated over the last 40 years they're without economic viability you see them drying up all over saskatchewan and alberta these and out in atlanta canada as well because these little outposts just can't survive they don't have the economy for it anymore and i so and i didn't see anybody talk about that particular problem which seems to be the big one um so i think that these attempts at reconciliation are going to be lumped in with the big lies in no time flat because we're not addressing the real issues uh maybe i'm wrong am i wrong what do you think about that issue and and is it something that the ppc is concentrating on is it something that's that's that's of the nature of a crisis what should be done yeah you're not wrong you're not wrong jordan the solution is there the solution is there and we have we have a policy a platform for the first nation and i was in invention and unveiled that platform with uh some of our candidates that one of them is an atheist and others or a first nation and they agree with our platform what we need to do we need to turn the page and build a new relationship with the first nation based on property rights on reserve base not on a top-down approach that what is that is what is happening right now you know we don't have clean water on reserve and ottawa cannot solve that they must be able to solve okay so why why why specify property rights what do you see that be what why is that the issue because you know you cannot if if you're on reserve you cannot uh you can have a house but you can have you cannot have a mortgage you don't have any property it's a kind of a communist system on reserve there's no property right there there's some reserve in dc that they've developed a kind of a property right when you don't have any property rights on reserve people living on reserve they are dependent they cannot build wealth they cannot have a house they cannot have a board okay so canadians don't canadians don't understand this i don't understand this so what's the typical economic arrangement so i'm a i'm a first nations person i'm living on a reservation i have a house but i don't have a house according to you i don't have property rights who owns the land who has the rights to it how does that work exactly and why is it a problem yeah that that that's the reserve you have a house yes but you you cannot do what you want in that house because that's that's under the the authority of the of the reserve uh and that's why you know you don't have people and you have the indian account so that is managing everything and the indian act it's a racist act it is based on race so we need to abolish that but the problem is if you want to abolish it the other question is you will replace that by what and we don't have the solution but when i'm saying that to people to to first nation they agree that we must abolish gender act but they want to be part of the solution what i'm telling them yes we want you to be fully participating in our society being part of the solution let's abolish that and after that having a discussion for a better future on reserve a kind of a property rights on reserve well it must be very it must be very hard for people to be incentivized to improve their property to invest in their property etc if they have no stake in the future of that property or if that's distributed entirely in ways that are beyond their personal control yeah but i i don't i want people to understand that they have a house they can do what they want in their house but they cannot mortgage that right so they can they can improve it and that's why but that's the discussion that we must have with them but we don't have a discussion we don't want to have that discussion because the solution is complicated and oh and we prefer to give money to them billions of dollars but that they don't want them they want more autonomy they want to be able you know to to have maybe the same responsibility like like a municipality so let's have a discussion we need to respect treaties yes we can do that but we need to open that and and but the mainstream political parties are not ready for that because they don't have the solution why do the metis people who are running for your party agree with that what what what do they see that's valuable for them because they see that we are able to speak about that they know that we don't have all the solution but they know that the principle where we went base our relationship nation to nation respecting everybody turning the page about the past not ottawa will be there i'm telling you what to do every time so abolishing the indian act they they like all that but they want to participate with us to find the solution and they want to have that discussion that's why they agree with our position so i would like you to tell me your opinion about what's happened in canada at the federal level under trudeau so what's your story of trudeau's government what how should we conceptualize it and and what do you think about it and why i believe it's a failure uh first of all trudeau said in the beginning of his mandate the first one that canada is the first post post-national nation country with no core identity and and i think that that was his goal and now with the racial politic that we have in this country and trudeau was successful to put us in a little box you know you are black we have a policy for you like he did you know a new program for black entrepreneurs only for black entrepreneurs that's racial politics that's trudeau for me is the most divisive prime minister in our history we need to abolish programs like that we need if you want to have a program for entrepreneurs we need to have a program for all entrepreneurs and not only for black entrepreneurs so and that's why we that i believe that's why people are are our people are ready to have that discussion and more and more people the world culture put out you know when trudeau said there's no recession anymore the sea session and you know what what's that oh because he believed that a recession would be harder on women so it's all that political correctness at the extreme and i said no to political correctness long time ago there's no taboo subject for us and trudeau you know all that wall culture and you know that better than mid jordan it was all in the university universities couple of years ago and now it's it's in the civil society with and that that's the trudeau heritage and also the big deficit and and the inflation and so what do you what do you think of trudeau personally how how do you assess him his character and his fitness for leadership and and maybe you could also say the same about o'toole and would you rather see o'toole or or trudeau as prime minister well you know we will have all tool to do in a couple of days but both of them both of them i don't like because i don't like them because they don't have any character they're following the polls and you know some someday they're saying something the the other day they're saying the opposite uh but trudeau i can tell you that he's a good communicator uh you know he's able to have one line and with the mainstream media everything you know it was a a teacher teacher so i understand that he's very good uh but there's there's nothing he is uh for me is a a puppet and he will say what uh what do you think a puppet of of the uh the establishment of the liberal party of canada and the establishment they want they want to stay in power and they will do everything to stay in power they will be trudeau said couple of months ago that imposing a vaccine passport will be too divisive that's why i won't do that and now he's seeing the opposite why because you look at the polls and he knows that more people are ready for that so there's no leadership there you know he is he is uh he's listening his advisor and he will say everything to be elected and utool is the same so i i don't have any uh i i i don't know trudeau personally i don't know o'toole personally i know them like every canadian and i'm judging them by their policies as political leaders and for me the policies that they promote is not the right policies for our country and for the future of our country another question when when you think about canada the way it is now like uh murphy told me for example that that he conceptualizes canada he sees well we we're we we're regional country there's the atlantic provinces there's ontario there's quebec there's the western provinces bc is its own place there's the north so when you envision canada um what where do you see its regional divisions and and what does the ppc have to offer let's say each of those particular regions yeah first i agree with that we have different regions in this country that but the most important for me we have different culture the culture of quebec is different of the culture of alberta but that's our country and and we cannot change that but we are united we are united because we share the same values and if we want to have a conscious constitutional peace in our country we need to have more decentralization every province's province or we must be able to do what they want to do if something is very important in alberta and they want to have i don't know their own case that they pull their own pension plan they must be able to have that so that's why i you know what we are doing it's not we don't try to reopen our constitution or to rewrite our constitution we just want the federal government to respect the constitution and by doing that that will give more autonomy to provinces and you will have the constitutional peace in this country and yes it's beautiful that we have different culture in this country and we are unique in the world with that so we are canadian and that's part of our identity as canadian so what do you think it is that unites us across those regions as far as you're concerned what it what is it this so trudeau said while we're the first post nation nation in some sense we don't have a central culture um you don't agree with that obviously what do you think it is that unites us across those fairly uh pervasive regional differences it's our history or our culture that is different in different regions uh is our charter of rights uh our freedom the the fact that we want every canadian to be every canadian to be called before the law uh our western civilization values and the fact that yes uh you know in quebec you can speak french over there and we don't impose that to anybody and in alberta you know that's an anglophone province and outside but people appreciate that and yet but they don't want anything being imposed by the federal government so let provinces do what they want to do but our country is not the country that justin trudeau wants to build a country more divisive and and you know for him you are not canadian if you are if you are a canadian from from china uh he will he will and o'tool will do the same thing he will call you a chinese canadian or a pakistanis canadians no people came here to celebrate our freedoms and everybody for me is a canadian i don't care you know if i'm speaking with a person uh the different ethnicity that you are a chinese canadian no you are a canadian and these people came in here to celebrate and to become canadians so that divisive politics that identity politics is is killing killing our our country and we want to stop that and and having policies that will look at everybody as a canadian and not try to to do that pandering to to a region or pandering to an ethnicity like the traditional politicians are doing right now so if canadians vote for you on monday elections on monday um what's their reward for doing that we can return to that to some degree yeah like i said i want them not to vote against something i want them to vote for something for their values for what they believe and look if you like our platform i hope you support us what will be after the election i can tell you that i won't be the leader of the opposition i won't be prime minister but you will have a freedom voice netawa you will have a common sense voice in ottawa you will have a voice that is ready to do these important debates for the future of our country that's what i can tell you and we will start that common sense revolution together that's only the beginning of uh another step for the people's party of canada at the beginning of that common sense revolution in this country well we've gone 90 minutes that is a nice closing statement i guess i'm wondering if there's anything else you'd like to discuss or add and apart from that then i think that that's a nice wrap no i appreciate that yeah i appreciate that mr peterson jordan i'm very pleased that you gave me that opportunity to to be out there and to reach more people that's the most important for us that's our biggest challenge so yes we can end there and yeah it'll be interesting yeah interesting to see how people respond to this because well because i'm hoping that this kind of discussion can become a model for a different kind of political dialogue in the future and one that's not mediated so much by media handlers and appearance and all of that but that's predicated on straight blunt somewhat complicated talk and and and i guess we'll see how that works we'll launch this as soon as we possibly can you

Channel: Jordan B Peterson

Views: 129,244

Rating: 4.9180312 out of 5

Keywords: maxime bernier, bernier peterson, maxime bernier jordan peterson, maxime bernier politics, maxime bernier parliament, maxime bernier canada, maxime bernier trudeau, Jordan Peterson, bernier trudeau, Jordan B Peterson, psychology, psychoanalysis, Jung, existentialism, maps of meaning, biblical series, free speech, freedom of speech, biblical lectures, personality lectures, personality and transformations, Canadian politics

Id: ltZ7iGrF4BM

Length: 76min 8sec (4568 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 17 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/Mr_Bidwell]

This is a pretty good interview, from 2 modern day intellectuals.

Spoilers alert: There's no pandering to any groups in this conversation.

[u/Far-Bad9143]

Loved this interview 🙌

[u/schmosef]

Thanks for posting. Going to brew some tea and tuck in.