India 2009 - BBC Debate Tapping into Female Talent

welcome to the BBC World debate from Delhi I'm Nik gowing why do women the world over still struggle to enjoy the same status and opportunities as men women drive much of the world economy the clothing in this market is made by women sold by women and bought by women roughly half the global population is female but that half earns just 1/10 of the world's income despite commitments to gender equality why is change so slow when I'm older I want to become an astromech it's a doctor for astronauts on one shade I want to become a dancer in one shade I'm going to become a poet and on one child I've no idea for surgeon international law and business I wanna become a licensed officer that Indian Foreign Service an athlete or an artistic or musical artists or musicians these teenage girls at Delhi's modern school are among India's privileged they can't see why there are barriers to female advancement in the 21st century women are 50% of the population how can you have any activity that just restricts itself to half the population women can handle home making and business at the same time I'll give a famous example of the Indian who's the Pepsi CEO Indra Nooyi she's a woman and she's doing fantastically you can see women in every field nowadays where they're everywhere India is ruled by women I always say that just as a chariot moves on two wheels any nation any country if it has to progress it has the man is one wheel and the woman is the other wheel and if both wheels are really strong the chariot will move very fast the latest global gender equality rankings just out from the World Economic Forum show that Iceland has moved to the top with a smallest gender gap Yemen has not moved from the bottom the United States is now 31st India is 100 and 14th on maternity rights and sex discrimination at work some women in the developed world now concede that legislation can reduce opportunity the cost can also mean employers avoid taking on women here's one of the most successful women in international finance at a British Parliament hearing I feel you know the women are a really capable practical driven multitasking bunch of people that represent 50 percent of the financial workforce and what I really worry about actually is that legislation and protections turning us into a nightmare this is the Japanese owned suzuki maruti car plant outside Delhi it remains a predominantly male preserve on the production line and in the offices of 7400 employees here 240 that's just three percent are women but from the streets of a city like Delhi to the offices of big corporations like this why is female talent still not being harnessed to its fullest extent that's our BBC World debate more women is that the boost of skills that business needs well here at the World Economic Forum's India summit we're upholding that principle of gender equality with three women and three men on the platform indra de nuit is chairman and chief executive of the global food and beverages giant PepsiCo the biggest company by stock market value with a woman boss Chanda Kochhar is the new chief executive and managing director of India's largest private bank ICICI Carlos Kohn is chairman and chief executive of the auto giant Alliance Renault Nissan in both France and Japan regarded as a corporate leader on gender equality in business melanne verveer is President Obama's ambassador for global women's issues beyond us Shores and finally su Health's F business consultant social commentator on several corporate boards skeptic about the role and value of women in business welcome to you all but before I come to you let me just take a show of hands from the political and business leaders who are gathered here in Delhi let me put this question to you about gender equality who thinks that business really understands now the principles of gender equality any hands going up I can see I think any binoculars to see them what about those who think that business doesn't understand gender equality that's why we're doing the debate almost all of you think that business doesn't understand gender equality gender equality means 50/50 is that just an aspiration Carla's going or is it actually achievable on the long term it has to be achieved there is no reason that inside the company you don't reflect the society for which you are preparing your products your technology and your services long term it has to be done now when you start at the level where you have a very small percentage obviously it looks like impossible a task but we have to work as we are going to you know carry to the end Indra knowing achievable especially in industries like ours the food and beverage industry achievable and my definition of long-term is the next 10 to 15 years I don't know what your definition is Carlos but I think in the next 10 to 15 years we should strive and I think it's doable Chanda Kochhar 5050 is it achievable gender equality doable but with a lot of effort from both the corporates as well as the women themselves Milan Bevere do you think it's achievable you're out there campaigning for it on behalf of the United States and the US president it has to be achievable I agree that it's not the same question is it achievable it is achievable if we put a lot of will to it both corporate will and political will sue helps have is it achievable do you believe it'll happen 5050 I don't think so and in the long term we're all dead a bee what do you mean by gender equality is it only index to women at work or is it the fundamental respect of women by societies and in many cases across the world you have certain geographies behaving towards women in different ways so if you're going to broaden the debate to a serious note where you're actually going to address the issue of gender equality which means respect for women non discrimination against women a civil justice system that guarantees women's rights then I think we would have moved the needle all right your question sue else F I'm going to put it to them Indra Noi what do you mean by gender equality now what's the hell just said is what stops women from progressing because that's the man's definition of asking the question and letting this whole thing go by but let me come by gender equality is giving women the opportunity to do whatever they want okay whether they want to study stay at home work work in any job they want to me that's gender equality and the reason we focus on the numbers in the workplace is because we believe that if you gave women the choice they will come to work because women like to work women like to be productive in jobs which gives them a lot of positive reinforcement outside the home that's my experience because I am a woman and I think most of the women I've come in contact would like to do that melanda vir of course you were chair and chief executive of an organization called vital voices to campaign for equal women's do you know what equality means I think every woman deserves to be respected and to have her rights protected and in terms of those rights she has the right to participate economically she has the right to political participation she should be able to access health care education and be free from violence and I would say to each man think about the rights that you enjoy there is no reason women shouldn't enjoy those same rights equality means everything as was said earlier whether it's starting from right to education right to the right and you know appropriate health care but finally if you talk of workplace equality means creating an environment which does not discriminate between men and women I think as long as you create that environment that moves more on the basis of merit and does not discriminate between people just because they're males or females I think you've opened out a huge set of opportunity for women Conner's growing your enormous auto corporation or Alliance as a corporate culture committed to diversity your figures show at Renault 16% women eight percent at Nissan how do you define equality which you are aspiring to well you know my definition of equality is not very far from what Indra said that I think I think we need to make sure that women can do whatever they want to do and they are not the victim of preconceived idea roles that they don't want to play I mean this is for me fundamental and at the end of the day it's it's a fundamental for corporation it's a fundamental issue because you have so much waste today in talents now you're mentioning 8% and the percentage we have in Japan exactly but you need to understand where we're coming from I mean 10 years ago we had a 25% of this level and we had to put a plan and discuss a little bit and make a lot of trainings and prepare our management to accept this idea so they don't perceive it as you know it's a trend or it's a fashion but it's something fundamental we need to be changing to the companies you know self you must be convinced by that I don't know I think the problem of Indra knew is logic is no one is saying that women don't deserve equality the point is so societies don't all evolve at the same level today the fact that we have inequality in India in many developing economies in some societies which are matriarchal only point to the fact that for some reason or the other blame it on men if you want their fact is that there is a certain inherent inequality and don't let the tokenism befuddle obfuscate so don't expect the indra noise and the chandra coaches to be those visible inspirational tools of a new emancipation for women alright well let's just say that Oh participation token is a melon I think one of the problems we have would you accept what he says no I don't expect her to I mean I'm sure he likes to see technological evolution just outpace all kinds of stages of development and go from no phone to cell phone without having gone through everything else that's quite okay that's progress in our world but for women no we might have to keep some here because it just takes too long to get there okay obfuscation and tokenism that word comes up time and time again do you believe that in a certain way he's got a point tokenism I don't think so I mean don't use Chanda Kochhar ninja noise examples we don't hold ourselves up as the fact that women are emancipated around the world and I don't think gender both of us talking to each other view ourselves as the token women we think women are a fantastic force there are brain power that's dying to be tapped and I think business industry government has to tap into that workforce and that brain power if the world has to progress let's just talk about the future of society Society is not going to advance the right way until you treat women on an equal footing with men period there's a view out there that in some corporations many corporations all this talk of gender equality is actually the equivalent in climate change of greenwashing in other words you're talking about it but actually you don't really want to do it well I can jump here that mean III don't agree on the fact that you just be passive because this is the way it is and you have cultural I mean I moved to Japan in 1999 I was shocked by the fact that most of the woman that I was meeting into the company we're really demotivated and I understand why you know I understood very well why so we said okay if we sit down and say well this is the way society is and there's nothing to be done and want to wait until the whole society moves you would be sitting today within these small numbers of yeah I'm going to give you just one statistic 1% of the management ranks in Nissan in 99 was woman 1% I was this mode then I looked at the industry in Japan and the average of the industry was 1% 1% so we today we are at 5 percent 5 percent obviously 5 percent is very small it's 5 fold what we used to be we are at the top level between all the Japanese company industries but it required a lot of explanation a lot of trainings a lot of preparation introducing women in the succession planning and a lot of things which were not done nobody can sit down on the side and say you know what this is going to happen it's going to be an evolution of society or I'm going to wait for laws to change we have to take it as an issue for the corporation and try to solve it and particularly not show it as it's a fashion or a trend or a belief but something fundamental for developing value inside the company and particularly to make sure that all the talent existing is in the company is not being wasted China you've been at the helm of your bank now for six months how far do you believe you can go or will it be the kind of tokenism that CL is talking about well I don't think it's really tokenism and those corporations that really recognize the potential and the advantage of harnessing women power see we have to one understand that women are a large source of power of the population in the world and whether you look at them as potential consumers whether you look at them as potential talent pool whether you look at them as people who can relate much better to employees or to consumers you need to have them as a part of your work pool and the moment an organization realizes that I think the efforts are not just token they are actually actual efforts now if you look at the case of ICSA itself you could well turn around and say that is a tokenism because ICSA does not do any reservation for women and we actually believe if there is no requirement for doing reservation for women but on the other hand the big thing that we do is really create a meritocracy create a culture which is based on merit which allows both women and men to prosper just on the basis of their marriage without discriminating between men and women and I think that's not tokenism that is the actual effort to let women grow and prosper the reality is Nick are the following a gender equality and I'm saying this with grave seriousness please don't imagine that only those women who work are liberated or only those women in the workplace of people who are independent there are millions of women who contribute as much being homemakers and I'm not being derogatory because I know the the party will be also you don't want them working either the point is don't equate gender equality only to workplace equated to a more fundamental level which is the respect within society of women and various societies as I said earlier behave differently the fact that in India we don't have a civil justice system which protects women the fact that in America from 2004 to 2009 you've only seen an 8 percent increase of women in corporate boardrooms the fact that Eileen Lang of catalyst says that men are dizzy women are dizzy but no one has the straightforward answer as to why there aren't enough women in positions of leadership means that there is a problem which we also need to address is their stream rising among the rest of the panel at the moment I know that really is a problem but part of that problem this is not an academic discussion this is not a fun discussion just to have it if we truly understand the data we're here at the World Economic Forum it puts out an annual competitiveness report how are we going to be more economically productive how are we going to compete within our countries how are we going to bring prosperity to our countries it is contingent on this discussion what this discussion represents which is equal participation for women in in health in economics in education and in political life we do that we will reach a point that will benefit all of our countries because there is no progress unless women can also progress indra noi is the steam rising with you yes and no I mean heard these arguments so many times before so here let me just stop you right here I've talked a lot of housewives in India people have stayed at home and if you ask them I'd say the preponderance of those women want to work or at least want to have the choice to work they want to have the choice the problem is society does not give them the choice okay if you gave them the choice and they chose to stay home but then if they any time wanted to get to work and they could then there's equality because they've had the education the work skills to go back to work if you take all that away from them and then you tell and then it come come in and talk about the fact that they're being respected because they're at home to me that's not equality see this is this is again where the logic is being tweaked no one is saying that don't give women the choice please don't consider us to be women bashes that's not the argument the argument is do we take serious efforts to change the model though in the manner in which women are treated whether in the workplace or not a B you have international statistics in America in Europe to suggest that there is discrimination against women of childbearing age at the workplace there is Envy within small businesses and colleagues against women because you know of maternity leave issues these are real issues now we can sit here and say oh but we want equal rights of course we want equal rights I mean this country more than anything else understands the role that women can and must play yeah what you see I think respect cannot be passive it has to be active yeah exactly and you cannot just you know if women in a certain society you know you're not expecting anything and not being educated etc and tell them you know are you free to make choices obviously you're going to be disappointed with the answer by say and a lot of them are being maybe happy with the condition you need first to prepare women to be able to make this decision which is starting with education expectation is very important also because if you start with having a different kind of expectation you're going to have different results so I think respect has to be active not it cannot be only passive candor well I think again you know it's not just stopping at the management board rooms let's just go down further and see in India again a lot of change is happening at the villages itself there are more and more women who are participating around the punches who are then driving decisions that impact you know the villages for the benefit of not just women but for the society at large they take up issues like you know banning drinking they take up issues like basic sanitation healthcare education and so on so we are seeing movement taking place at the other levels itself as well here we have three very senior corporate executives and an ambassador for women's values the fact that almost all the audience believe the business doesn't understand gender equality you're sitting here your advocates your ambassadors for it but they don't understand it and I believe that that's true because we still don't appreciate that this is no longer a matter of nice corporate social responsibility a nice things to do if you want to bring the women into the workplace this is a business imperative today it's an economic imperative how they can have sounded better but we all have to figure out how we're going to come together one understanding this and two unimplemented it and taking the steps necessary to move forward the women that are in the fields bent-over collecting the firewood in getting the water and knitting countries together by virtue of what they do every day want to have a better life every single woman wants to have a better life that's a common human trait but she has to be invested in you know if I was in the audience you need to ask me that question I probably would have put up my put my hand up and said I don't know what gender equality is business does not understand it the reason is because the notion of gender equality is a very complex topic is it numbers is it getting to 5050 there's gender equality is it having the right environment within the workplace to create a really a friendly environment for women is that equality what is gender equality I don't think it's an easily definable subject and I think I suspect a lot of people who put their hands up put their hands up because they still don't have a clear idea of what it is because it's very hard to define let me put it to you do you think you've been a better chief executive of PepsiCo than a man would have been uh-huh you know three of my board members and the audience you should ask them I'm asking you because there's this issue of risk there's a feeling that actually women would have been much better when it came to the recent economic meltdown there have been restraint would would you have felt within your bank that women can act within a more responsible less risky way in a corporate environment I believe it's more the person who is a good leader or not a good leader and doesn't really come from whether you're a male or a female and that's really the belief that all organizations should work with but I think for women some qualities come very natural that is they are able to put themselves in the shoes of others and think what that person would want so they are able to put themselves in the shoes of their employees and think much better as to what the employees would they are able to put themselves in the shoes of customers and think what the customers would want so I think that's a natural trait that probably helps women more but frankly finally it's really the question of how good about a leader you are if you are a chief executive or on a board you've got to take risk with the approval of your board and return money and value to shareholders that means taking risk isn't there a contradiction here does it matter if it's a man or a woman indra well I think it's a question of careful risk or understandable risk as opposed to risk that's you know mired and obfuscated fact so I think it's two different kinds of risk I think to what Chanda said again it depends on the person it doesn't matter whether it's a man or a woman and when it comes to PepsiCo itself I've and v in a long line of great CEOs so any one of them were equally good but the issue of risk I mean do you think you take more or less risk than say man might I take the right kind of risk that the company requires at this point in time Chanda c'est mieux I take the right kind of risk because you it there has to be a risk return equation and you can't take no risk then you won't return money to your shareholders so you have to arrive at the right balance and again as I said I think that right balance can be arrived at by either a man or a woman it depends on what kind of a person you are you call us risk yeah yeah that a woman would take in your position look I I don't want to fall into this trap or saying okay if it's risky it's a and if it's not biscuits the one I think we are yeah but there's plenty there's plenty of evidence and there are plenty of claims on the record out there from leading analysts of gender equality who say that when it comes to risk women would be more responsible I don't know how they define it but more responsible look it's possible but let me let me tell you one thing what was it first it why are you talking arrest you're talking about big decision big decision usually are not taken by CEO alone in their room you know they are taking with the board and as long as you are surrounded with the board who you know with men and women with the younger people and older people because let's not talk only about let's not limit diversity to women we're talking about age we can talk about culture we can talk about everything's as long as you have a balanced board well then you're going to make more sensitive decision for your company but obviously if you have a board which is in one direction or made was one single population a Board of woman in my opinion would be as in a certain way dangerous for the company than a board only made of men of a certain age I think you need diversity you need people of different sensitivity different knowledge in order to get to the right decisions exactly right I mean you could say as some have that the global financial crisis came out of too much risk-taking you know and mostly men were involved in those decisions is that a fair thing to say I don't know but it is true that when we have greater balance greater representation of experiences greater differences of talents we're going to get a better product in the end and that's what I think we should strive for I see a bit of skepticism from the way you looked at me when I made that point me just quotes you Jacqueline Zana first woman born trader to be apartment partner of Goldman Sachs now vice-chairman of the us-based women's funding network she said female managed investment funds have outperformed other funds now there's plenty of evidence and plenty saying that CL says yeah but there's also the same the same people who said that because they are less of risk takers and I don't know if that's true or false but the fact is that they are more conservative but having said that let's just stress on one of the critical points you raised about risk-taking capacity Freud and before Shakespeare said of women that they are more compassionate more reasoned and they have a more holistic view of life and which also translates into the workplace I think the debate will fall if it's a debate between the pros and cons of men and women I think the larger issue is how do you react with reality when you have female infanticide in many countries when you have literacy not being a task that is pursued the reality is one of the things that you're going to put on the ground how are you going to actually change the way people behave and here my point Nick is unless you change the way people think in their basic unit of society which is the home you will never be able to expand it many fold in the workplace so the change Claire just finish the the change has to happen at that very basic unit level and in many societies they don't want it I think there's an inconsistency in this argument because at base the dealing with female feticide dealing with illiteracy dealing with neglect these these all say something about respect for women work they have the ability to participate in in work that gives one dignity that enables women to come out from the constraints in which they find themselves this ennobling environment that you're describing has not always been so ennobling that is part of this movement it is of a whole the right to participate economically goes hand in glove with the right to have your dignity respected what about the issue of the correlation between greater gender equality and greater production greater GDP do you accept that when you look at your Japanese experience versus your French experience there's no there's no doubt for me there's no doubt I can I can demonstrate it at the level of my industry you know I can demonstrate it on specific facts that you do better product when you involve more women into the decisions why is that do you want me to give you example very simple women and men don't buy the car on the same features they don't they don't we have statistics we know it you know men go look at the engine at the transmission at the power a talk women don't care about it usually you know they care about the design that worried about quality of functionality by don't look at the same thing so if you have only woman making man making decision on the car they're going to take care of the engine of the transmission of the torque and they're going to neglect design and saying this small stuff are not important at the end of the day you end up selling the cars very well for men and not for women and all the people who understood that are coming with much less investment in engine and heavy stuff doing the very good the interior design etc and having big hits you know so what I'm doing in terms of in the case of Nissan we're bringing more women in the design we're bringing more doing in deciding into products and frankly all the products would benefit from it are bigger hits so here I can demonstrate on very specific issues in our industry that women input moment decision in terms of management is going to enhance your sales let me just enhance what Carlos is saying today the world is so complex the issues are so many businesses struggle to really grow in a sustainable way in today's world we want to be able to draw from the best and brightest the society has to offer in terms of an employee pool you don't want to eliminate 50 percent of the population and say I'm only going to draw from one half of the population because there's not enough of the best and brightest and one half to feed all the needs of all the companies we want to be able to draw from the entire population base and draw the best and brightest into the company and I think if you have women and men to draw from the company does better because you've drawn from the best and the brightest do you accept this argument the correlations to herself yeah I do because you know as Carlos mentioned there is there are definite advantages in adding both to the consumer and the talent pool but you will only act to that consumer and talent pool once you make the facilities equal for both genders and sometimes there are societal mess-ups there are systemic errors which prevent that from happening so the answer is not what Milan said oh but you know there's an inconsistency in the argument no there is complete consistency in the fact that certain societies are in denial about the contribution that women can make and that needs moment you know I didn't interrupt you that needs to change to my mind this is gender equality and when that does and when that does then things may improve but you know no one is saying that women shouldn't have the right can can I just say cuz I don't disagree with that point I think no the point the point is that we do have to invest in women's education and women's growth and well-being and it is the predicate for moving up the economic ladder but there are a lot of people who don't have the changes in the economic sphere who are not participating in putting pressure on political decision makers their own situation of power in a in a in a society to make that kind of change go forward we all have to be part of this change you know I'm very optimistic about devolution I won't tell you why it's not only because objectively you can demonstrate that it's a logical thing to do but at the same time you know if when you come to every single man ok let's say women are convinced that they need to progress that if you come to our single man every man has a mother every man may have sisters and every man may have daughters so when you look already at the woman surrounding you and you take a look about do they really have equal opportunity are they having a fair chance versus their brother or their cousin etc well you come to the conclusion that there is something need to be done this is not only about a rational approach it's also a very emotional approach we charge every single man on the planet no matter where from what society is coming from let me get a few other views from the audience Roy Tripathi you run a sugar mill down in Tamilnadu I do agree with India and China Chanda when they said that the balance sheet is gender insensitive ultimately it's the success of the business it's not about who's running the business or taking the leadership man or woman but then how do you get to that point to be becoming a woman leader it's a matter of having the opportunity and the courage and the guts but then again I do agree with Sohail that the social fabric has to has to change the big question is do we want reservation is that also sort of treating women in a derogatory fashion but then it opens up these two there's opportunities for women in the country I believe that one of way and one of the ways in which we can accelerate our progress in closing the gap in opportunities between men and women in the workplace is by holding companies accountable for their progress in this area and this means for companies to systematically measure their performance in gender equality and report on their performance I think that when we talk about gender parity the one thing that we start with obviously is the rights of girls and women but if we don't include the rights and girl at the rights and responsibilities of boys and men we're only using at heart of the issue so I what I'm hearing is that there is a full agreements the recognition that you only have half a society if you only engage half the society right there's an obvious point that you're missing out commercially or missing out socially missing up morally if you are not engaging women but how do you engage and I think the key issue is about what is the appropriate level of intervention and how do you address the cultural barriers India's a fascinating example because actually we are many worlds in one we have the largest number of elected women parliamentarians at the panchayat level and at the national level of any country and yet we have the largest number of illiterate women so what are we doing to invest in basic things like sanitation health care education if we focus on that sixty percent of the population the remaining 40 percent of the population will take care of itself let me go now to Vijay Mallya you run Kingfisher Airlines you run the Team India in Formula One the Grand Prix and many other businesses particularly in alcoholic beverages are you convinced on gender equality I am convinced but with a couple of caveats if I can share these with you on International Women's Day we dispatched the first Kingfisher Airlines Airbus aircraft with an all-woman crew from the commander to the first officer and all the cabin crew in Kingfisher Airlines we have a policy that all our cabin crew are ladies now coming to Formula One yes there is a rather talented young lady driver in the indie series but we haven't seen a real quick formula car driver in Europe or anywhere else in the world but are you suggesting you may be breeding and don't mean that literally but you within Formula One are creating the first potential woman Formula one champion Formula One is all about marketing advertising and visibility and if I were able to identify a lady who would be a Formula One driver I mean I would get returns on investment manifold but coming to you know the spirits business my core business I have great young ladies you know at the back end doing marketing and stuff like that but I don't think that we're quite ready for you know a lady to show up selling a bottle of whiskey let me pick up finally on this issue of costs we heard Nicola peas who is deputy chairman of Ham bro Capital Management sitting in front of the British Parliament saying this is becoming a nightmare for companies dealing with sex discrimination problems and equality and the cost of maternity cover maternity leave she was saying that in the British Parliament and a nightmare for women as well do you accept that as chief executives you have to look after and handle this issue in major corporations indra nooyi no I don't accept that because we handle it quite well thirty percent of our management represented by women 25% of the entire employee base and we have about 200,000 people are women and we handle the cost just fine and as a company we are high-performing company and we're the world's leading food and beverage company and we got that bit because of our people so I don't accept that at all a nightmare colour scone do you sense that from your employees on this issue of women who go off for up to a year for maternity leave and jobs left open and so on no she's using that language usually you know inside companies people can use this whenever they don't want certain things to happen but frankly I don't think it's very serious because you know you have to look at it at broader perspective in your company about what a you know more equality and more participation from women is going to bring to your corporation and then after this whenever you have outline what is the price how much value are going to be created the rest of it is Frank not not very not very important but how much do you think she's actually reflecting the whispering that goes on it's politically incorrect to say that kind of thing how much is she reflecting that some of it is true because it's not all easy I'll just give you one example we had a female employee who wanted six months off to take care of an ailing mother and when she was off for six months we had to redistribute her work to the people around her because we couldn't replace her for a six-month sabbatical around her were other women who came to see me and said look we can't take on any more of the workload because were they resentful they were not resentful they were just explaining that they couldn't take on any more of the workload so I think what corporations have to do is find creative solutions we are exploring whether we should create a roving workforce which goes around filling these temporary jobs whether it be men or women it's not just women who want time off men are increasingly asking for time off but it raises the question of political correctness here and against the cost within a corporation it is cost-benefit analysis but there are a lot of benefits there not just the cost side and I think it is one of the big challenges for the for the workplace do you expect were to use of nightmare no I don't accept that but I but I do think we have to be more flexible in enabling women to participate in the workforce and bring all the benefits that their participation represents and still have mothers and and have their children taken care of in ways that that has a strong positive societal value and there's no reason why we can't make the to balance out offer yet another contrarian but logical point of view it doesn't happen and it doesn't affect the Pepsi's in the icici of the world nor does it affect reynold ask the small and medium enterprise business owner ask the small business owner if this is an issue and the reality is it is if that can be obliterated or that can be removed then we will make even more fantastic progress it's a part of your business model which you have to build in so well for small businesses there are less number of people you have less flexibility for large businesses there are large number of people but the challenges are larger for example in our case 80% of our women employees are less than 30 years of age that means we have to apply for the maternity leaves we give them adoption Li as we give them child caring leads but at the same time many of these are humane efforts so when we have crashes crashes take care of children not just of women employees but also of men employees so I think if you plan it well you can manage this cause any cover just for a moment go back to women participating well one viewpoint which is of course very valid is to say that as you have more women if you ask Carlos if you have more women designing cars what you would get is actually a car which is a place for a handbag which means cars will sell more so I think that's that's the that's the first point but the second point is the more women participate in employment it creates a huge multiplier effect on the growth of the economy Carlos cone again this question of it being a cost and quote a nightmare is that the way you see it behind closed doors sometimes within renault-nissan no no I mean you're talking about nightmare frankly I think it's might be exaggerated what's the average average child per woman today in a society like Japan okay 1.5 okay so we're talking about the carrier of 40 years where once or twice in the career you're going to low somebody to be absent from the job a couple of months but it is that mean this is this is a minimum that you accept to get somebody who feel good about his company her company good about the job etc and let me add one thing why don't we cancel this by adding a paternity leave because this is the way to consider it because there is absolutely no reason that we give today some time for the mother obviously physically she has to be there but even the father has to share also in this responsibility and by adding a or in some countries starting by adding a paternity leave it will eliminate definitively the question of course because then if you're a paternity leave only the man is going to take care of the child then nobody not to go legal no I agree no I no no but I know I agree with you I agree with you but but I think in a certain way to encourage encourage people to encourage people to take care because this is a real issue in some societies about the fact that the family cannot be only single-handed single-handedly carried by one person but has to be shared I mean we are trying and we are encouraging paternity for people who would like to do it and some people are asking for it if you make people guilty about it we have a problem we should encourage it we're talking about big corporations here Malini Mehra what about the small businesses the tens of thousands the millions who face the challenge of how to accommodate gender equality I think there is a dilemma obviously the large companies have much greater assets you are able to invest in this you look at this not as a cost but as a long-term investment I run a small business it is an issue but how do we deal with it because we plan for it in my organization 80% of the workforce is female and we know that we have the majority of our sir actually in our childbearing years I have three children I have you know Maugham you know offices in two different countries the way that I deal with it is to make sure that we have flexible childcare and to make sure that my help my husband is an equal partner in raising our children and doing the family chores so when I said earlier that you have to talk about boys and men it's about how we are raising our boys and men why don't we raise our boys to be mothers that is what we should be doing and take out the sting the cultural sting that boys cannot be raised to look after the home and also to be successful in the workplace that's the future the future is female and we need to raise our boys to have the same degree of emotional quotient that we currently in investing it into intelligence questions do you think if you were raised at this times to hell you take a more enlightened view well I'd love to be a mother I have no issues with that you know see you're getting it's the wrong end of the stick but that's a very important point you know but you know raised voices mothers and all that that but your mindset into the past no no but my mindset is equally liberal I mean just because I'm mouthing certain logical realities doesn't mean that I hate women I love women passionately they can contribute and do contribute a lot I am NOT being condescending all I am saying is unless you get rid of the system make errors in various societies not just India you will not achieve real balance of gender equality and that must be mired and anchored in gender respect will interfere 100% with him on that because it goes I can everybody it goes to what Maura said which is we've got to make these investments and we all have to be part of the solution and that means when there's violence against women when there's the kind of gross violations that occur that men need to be a huge part of the solution religious leaders leaders need to be engaged we need all of society to get us to the point where we can have the benefits in the marketplace that accrue from all the talent that women represent which if not unleashed will not give us the kind of economic growth we all want to see so we need to make those investments and I tell you to make change the format of religion also in India the mess lies in some of our in some of the methodological stories that we follow I mean the treatment meted out to Sita for instance so there are certain sociological realities that we must also come to terms with if we are to bring about change I agree with Nicole if you do an assessment which is balance sheet and performance link and you have measurement hopefully will be a better world in these final moments we have two very senior female executives do you relate to what we just heard from Malini on the personal price the personal challenges you're at the top of a company with children who burst with challenges challenges are huge I mean look all our resumes look terrific each job is an apprenticeship for the rest for the next job but what's missing in that resume is all the heartbreaks and the regrets and the trade-offs and the pain but that's part of life and I think all the Trailblazers will in fact go through this sort of a a painful process and I think that's par for the course and at the end of the day I think people like Chandler myself malanez should view ourselves as the Trailblazers and figure out how we can be role models for those millions of young women who are looking up at us and saying god I wish I could be like them like the lady on the the young girl in the tape said but we have to make sure we bring more women into the workforce we allow more women to dream big and they in turn can pull women up behind them Shanda have you shared that pain as well of course it is definitely a challenge because finally as a woman you're trying to maybe out a 24 hour day you are trying to get a 48 hour work done but I think the moment you desire to do it yourself half the pain is behind you because you are desiring to do it and the second is you need cooperation from the family as well but as things move on I think if you desire to do it you look back and really enjoy the whole process and I think in a way I take it as being you know as being women as a privilege rather than being a challenge I think it's only a bigger privilege than men of being able to do both raise a family as well as run a job I think that's a fantastic privilege with fifty percent of the population of the world misses out it absolutely came from sue elsif we have enlightened but on the other hand clearly there is a much work to do can I thank you for your frankness about this very complex issue but an issue which is so vital for business for economic outlook and also for both genders whether women or men from Enoch out here in Delhi thanks for joining us bye-bye you

Channel: World Economic Forum

Views: 81,073

Rating: 4.7696333 out of 5

Keywords: WEF, World, Economic, Forum, India, Summit, WEFIndia, 2009, BBC, Debate, Tapping, into, Female, Talent, Carlos, Ghosn, Chanda, Kochhar, Indra, Nooyi, Melanne, Verveer, Nik, Gowing

Id: y-9qg9IunRo

Length: 47min 10sec (2830 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 08 2009