Mo Ibrahim participates in a BBC World debate on global inequality

hello and welcome to the United States for this world debate I'm on Wall Street in New York the center of global finance in a country which is at the heart of free-market capitalism but is this system broken critics argue it's led to growing inequality with the richest 1% owning nearly half of the world's wealth others insist this is the only answer to lifting billions out of poverty who is right [Music] welcome to the Lincoln Center in Manhattan I'm Xena but are we bringing you this world debate on global inequality what are the main reasons behind it and does it matter if so what can we do about it well I have a brilliant panel who are going to be wading through these difficult waters I also have a great audience here made up of young leaders from around the world and they've been convened by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation let me tell you who's on our panel so the Sudanese born businessman and philanthropist Mo Ibrahim has been described as mr. Africa he built a fortune in the telecoms industry and then turned to promoting development on the continent sigrid card Minister for foreign trade and development cooperation in the Netherlands she has a long background in international aid through her long career at the United Nations Kay James is president of the Heritage Foundation an influential American conservative think-tank she grew up in relative poverty in Virginia and says those experiences shaped her worldview and John Fugelsang is an American political comedian actor broadcaster and commentator he's made a documentary in fact to see if the American Dream is still alive in the face of rising inequality that is our panel welcome to you all okay panel quickfire question at the beginning the statistics showed that the richest 1% globally owned nearly half of the world's wealth is there a problem with that Marie brahim I think it depends what those rich guys first got the money they stole it they killed they what they did to get this money secondly what they are doing I mean we have here one of the richest people in the world sitting here who giving his money really for good causes we are really grateful for that and YouTube so I don't exactly so I you benefit models there yeah this is not self-serving statement this is genuine it really depends what we do and so let us not just run away with slogans like that okay so you don't have a problem with it basically it depends what you do with it and how you acquired that wealth okay that's very clear John well I think that the question that we face is not so much about the benevolent empathetic billionaire is here it's about the billionaires who wouldn't be caught dead here and are indifferent to the struggles of others the question we face is not so much about income inequality but dramatically uneven income growth over many years and the question I believe facing the billionaire's of the world is are they willing to take a smaller piece of an expanding pie or do they want to just go for a larger piece of a shrinking pie okay well we'll put that to move that I know you're not a spokesperson for billionaires but I'm sorry I yeah I just say let's see what Kay James has to say about this do you have a problem with absolutely not as a matter of fact I'd like to be one of them and quite frankly I think that that I absolutely agree with Mobe it depends on how the money was earned and it depends on how the money is spent but do I have a problem with people having the opportunity to work hard make a great deal of money and share the wealth absolutely not Minister sigrid well I agree with the comment is how you earn it and what you do with it but it's also the system is stomach exclusion that actually puts people way behind so it's about the opportunity to participate so I'm not so interested in the top tier I'm interested in the bottom of the pyramid and the middle layer that actually has no chance to participate anymore also in the future where we have jobless growth so it's financial streams but it's systemic changes we need to we need to work on and then indeed the not more not the spokesperson they're not not spokesperson benevolence II is great but it's systemic exclusion and marginalization that's the real issue and indeed it's all about how you deal with it but we need to influence the change alright so John you seem to have a problem with it but just tell me explain to me what is the problem with that richest 1% however they we wish to spend their money does it have a direct impact from the other 99% and whether they can you know increase their earning power and so on the two are not related are they no I don't think you can never have a maximum wage and I have no problem with the existence of billionaires whatsoever however what we're looking at in our culture is the concentration of wealth and we've seen growth slowdown because of it philanthropy can solve many many of the world's problems that can inspire many people to be more giving but it can't just be cherry it has to be strategic direct philanthropy that doesn't just go to address a symptom of a problem but that can go to address the rigged system that created the problem know you mentioned philanthropy as I said you are a big philanthropist operating on the content of Africa principally do you think that is absolutely incumbent on very very wealthy people the billionaires and so on to use their money to better society and to try to combat the inequalities we have not no doubt as human being and citizen we really need to work for Humanity absolutely I don't want my children to live in a society divided by class divided by opportunity Bieber that's not a word worth living in now while I'm saying that I know there is you know I mean Billy started this blech and we have like 140 hundred 50 when you're near said okay I'm gonna give half my money through my lifetime that's great I don't think that will solve the problem you should not look for Fram through me to solve the problem of inequality this is a systemic problem this is an issue of policy and structures this is an issue of opportunities will they all the children have the same opportunity to have access to decent education decent health problem mobility in the society is it unity is it just a problem of a system K I mean it's also one of ideology isn't it and I'm thinking in particular of Thomas Piketty the very influential French economist who's just written a book called capital and ideology and he says that the capitalist system inherently leads to accelerating inequality because obviously we like getting to economically about it you know as long as the return on investment on capital is greater than growth that's going to sustain we also know that capitalism has created an environment for growth where poverty rates actually go down we produce at the Heritage Foundation in index of economic freedom and one of the things that we have discovered as we have tracked this and Moe I think you even use some of this data in in your work one of the things that we have discovered is that the freer the economy is the more human flourishing you have and so what we see when you have deregulation less corruption more transparency and government that the capitalism under those circumstances you see less poverty rates and you see people rise and you see human flourishing you even see better climate conditions you see better health and so I think it's good when we have our discussion to actually take a look at those that data that's edible but shouldn't you have very very clear safety nets in free market capitalist systems for those who just simply can't swim with the tide well we do have safety nets and I think those safety nets are important not rigorous enough they often are they in some countries perhaps not okay cigarette you want you to come in here yeah I mean inclusive growth is extremely important but most forms of economic growth are not necessarily inclusive because if you're already not part of the chain you don't have a chance to compete so I think capitalism as a form of being a motor of economic growth it has been a starting point but it's very clear globally and through the impact of globalization as well and the new groups that are being excluded including the middle classes and the lower middle classes the people are resenting that and they're demonstrating against it and I think with with good reason what you need is good policies you need good politics and politicians and you need taxation and to fight corruption but taxation progressive redistribution of wealth is extremely important particularly for the poorest and those who don't have a chance to pay their school fees that do not have to pay I have the money to pay out-of-pocket for health care because the health system isn't looking up to their basic social and human needs I think that's the starting point you brought up the question of taxes there and I'd like to go to Danny's risk and Raja in our audience who is head of Oxfam GB and of course Danny oxen who have done a great deal of work on inequality publishing that very landmark report on inequality with its startling statistics what do you want to say to the panel that's right I'm an Oxfam research shows that the richest 26 people in the planet owned the same amount of wealth as the poorest half of the of the world and I think it's fantastic of those rich people pledged to use their private wealth for public good but we also need structural fixes and and one of the ways to fund the public services that mr. Cobb talks about is is increasing wealth taxes currently only four percent of all taxes generated in the world come from wealthy taxes and I wanted to ask the panel surely isn't it time for us to raise net wealth taxes and perhaps even aspire to a global standard for wealth taxes a global standard for wealth taxes okay so KJ's well yeah I'm sure it will come as a shock to no one here that the president of the Heritage Foundation sort of feels that taxing the rich is not necessarily what's going to get us out of the hole that we're in first of all if you tax them at an exorbitant rate you still wouldn't have a root enough resources in order to do the work that we we all agree so desperately needs to be done and so they've got to be some other solutions to that that's an easy you know tax the rich take their money and we'll solve all the problems of the poor that just isn't factually accurate there's not enough money there in order to do that so what do we alright we'll talk about what do we do but you've rejected that's particular suggestion John well just looking at history of our country in the United States it's not popular to say so but I think that we are not a capitalist society we are a blended society and both capitalism and communism are doomed to fail on their own for the same failsafe reason human greed looking to the period in America that we call the good old days the 1950s under President Eisenhower the capitalism and socialism flourished at the same time high progressive tax rate on the wealthiest Americans massive infrastructure spending like the interstate highway program capitalism flourishes with socialist programs like the GI Bill Eisenhower was our last Republican president to balance a budget with a surplus in this country we know that it helps it can't do all of it but we've learned dramatically in our country cutting taxes for the wealthy exacerbating problems every time in having a global standard of tax wealth I mean only if you want something that works it's a no brainer no you know Danny more important than even the wealth tax is corporate tax you know why because my countries our countries in Africa are being raided yeah because multinationals don't pay taxes in Africa and we absolutely and we need that what the problem is taxation systems are based on country's business gain global but every country that runs an own tax system independent of the others and doesn't work we need a over a standard deal a fairer tax system for corporation taxes because the profit shifting is really is helping us tremendously that's where real money is my friend and that's what we okay we need a new view for the whole taxation system individuals with the corporations are also non SI national corporations secret yeah I think I don't think it's an old system this system or that system anyway Europe we don't believe we don't talk sort of this divide between communism or capitalism you know our society is a little bit I think more mixed flows and I belong to a progressive liberal party so both labels don't apply to us but I think it's very important to unpack the whole issue of Taxation it's an instrument but it can never be the only one there's all about tax on wealth only because in most let's say in societies where wealth is more fairly distributed in the Netherlands most people have an income and a little bit of savings if they're lucky and that's it so your taxation base will always be that particular group and you use policy social protection networks to lift those who are more vulnerable to lift them up so what about the MNC under Mac the multinational mr. H is a very sensitive important point and I completely agree with Moe because that's where you can leverage additional wealth but the tax evasion issue is very often connected to the illicit economy sometimes not always and and obviously you need good politics and policies that's why I concur with Moe as well his next point I hope he'll be making on governance good she's putting words in your mouth we'll come to that but you know that is not only just raising taxes it's what we're gonna do with this money how good is this money to fight climate change are you gonna this money to improve education system for the kids improve health or order a user to buy more arms okay so it's what you do the policies not just raising the money can I just see Kay I mean you do you agree you said you don't want more wealth tax but on corporations and we know tax evasion illegal tax avoidance legal but you know morally questionable and a lot of multinational corporations do seek you know a kind of models whereby they can time's nothing you know what I want to see for corporations I want to see corporations operating in an environment where they can create more jobs where they can create more wealth where they can create more opportunity where people have the chance to go to work and and earn an honest day's wages so I want to see these corporations operating within an environment where they can do that and what do we know if you over tax a corporation what are they going to do they're going to leave and go someplace that has lower taxes so I think there's a balance there of course they have a moral obligation to pay taxes as anyone should but when you over tax a corporation you actually hurt the very people you claim you want to help but respectively we cut taxes on corporations that outsource to all the jobs anyway and what has happened is we've had stagnation we have had a booming economic growth we have for some for jobs and in this country right now and we don't want to focus so much on this country but in this country there are more people working today than ever than ever but they're not meant fast jobs they're not middle-class jobs that allow someone to climb from poverty to the top of the economic ladder and so much of that is dependent on the geography of where you are born so they got that group they're just about managing they're just about managing sometimes referred to as the jams I mean they have got problems and that becomes a point that you made secret about income inequality we've been talking about wealth inequality income inequality something different we've seen the backlash against the executive pay where only two or three kilometres from Wall Street we all saw the financial crash people protesting saying it's not right that these finances paid themselves millions and millions and no you've talked a lot about this the fact that there's got to be reform in that system because the financial crap but people are saying after the crash it's back to business as normal I think there is few positive signs among business even Kate I mean look even the Business Roundtable in United States which has most of the business people kept back now and said you know what guys business only for benefit of shareholders is not viable anymore we have to really take into account other stakeholders society community workers etc so businesspeople themself understand given what's happening around us they cannot really keep doing what they have done before okay let's go to the audience and get a point from you mr. Bill Gates yeah my question is there's this great focus on inequality and that's a wonderful thing but a lot of it's a focus within countries you know the goalkeepers report that brought us all here shows us that the greatest inequality is between countries where the poor countries a child has 50 times greater chance of dying before the age of five then in the the richer countries so it's interesting in this atmosphere of focusing on inequality of the discussion about things like government aid that's less than 1% of budgets we have more governments talking about becoming more isolated and less generous than talking about being more generous even the face in the face of the most stark inequalities and so I'm curious why people think that is no I think you would see but this is a question okay wait that's fine sacred cog it's a very profound question I think one of them there's it says a lot if I speak to my own country within a European setting one of them is I think the impact of the voice of populist populist leaders globally I think there's a rise of a liberal democracies sadly thirdly I think there's also a retrenchment and putting in a very symptomatic way putting the blame on either the other the immigrant the the easy label development cooperation hasn't worked and it's not looking in a proper way at this we're living in an era where the fear of globalization and the impact on the lives of citizens wherever they are is seen to be so threatening that it's easier to withdraw rather than look in a very clear analytical way as how we need to actually work together internationally to deal with the Kofi Annan called the passport less problems global challenges won't go away global challenges don't respect sovereignty let alone national border so it's a time to act to give voice and invest and we keep doing that as the Netherlands we're small but we like to punch above our weight but we need many other allies and we use our voice this week in the UN so you're the only body development age in your view and as you say the Netherlands is a generous giver is still very relevant to you it's how we address the catalytic inequality it's not the only one if you look at it it's one of the tools in the kit it's an incentive but it needs the whole community ok not yet we're striving towards it when there's more parties like mining governments seven percent of GNP GDP which some countries of the register gives in terms of so you think it is important to addressing - it is important and also in how it has been used and how in building capacity creating jobs job creation look education and health especially for young people is vital because that's what will meet things let me just say something this is not just charity people need to understand and this global world we all depend on each other if we have a well-to-do middle-class large middle class in Africa that is wonderful for your business guys right right after the sander so it's really a judgment against now in Europe there is high Styria about migration and the best way to deal with migration is not by having this armada of military boats in Turanian but creating jobs in Africa it's also a system of safety absolutely corporations can do a lot as they view these societies as emerging markets and a living wage workforce that can afford to buy stuff will help the corporation and the region as well but it is also about Aid and we have to reframe aid as not being charity but creating a safer world especially as climate change makes resources more scarce makes poverty more extreme you will see more terrorism and there's a strong argument to be made that foreign aid to these areas will increase world safety because if everyone does better everyone does better okay you proponent of aid to address inequality issues aid of course is important and it's significant and charitable people want to help charitable governments want to help and they want to put money where they think that it can really change people's lives however it is so important that as we give this aid that we are giving it with full knowledge and understanding when we go into certain countries and we give aid we want to know that that Aid is going where it's intended to go it's not going into corrupt governments it's not going into people's pockets we want the aid to get to the people who desperately need it the other thing that jumped out at me as we looked at our index our economic index you think that it's it's just you know who's making money who's not making money but what struck me as a person who cares deeply about making sure that poor people are lifted up that we have clean water to drink that we have access to healthcare that we care about our climates we discovered that in the countries and if you list them I encourage everybody to go look at it it's one of the most fascinating pieces of data the more economic freedom that exists in a country the higher human flourishing is the climate is better education is better access to health care is better and so one of the transparency in government is key and getting rid of corruption and government is key because we want to send the in aid in and we want to see human flourishing John you're looking a bit devious no I actually agree with a great amount but I think that we can look to the Netherlands we can look to the fact that the American Dream has become the Scandinavian dream in many cases where people I mean in America are problems with access to health care are problems with student loan debt you can't climb an economic ladder with 400 pounds of debt on your back and America is a great leader on many of these issues but sadly we're at a time when America is a great model to the rest of the world on things not to do and I look - that's no disrespect to my country it's my love of country that makes me say it because we know what works the question is it's the the problems not corporations the problem is human greed which can be regulated alright let's go to a question from our audience Katie EDA who's the executive director of Future coalition that's the youth-led organization organizations in the United States hi climate change is one of if not the largest drivers and contributed contributors to the world's growing inequality we saw over 4 million young people across the world take to the streets to demand that our world leaders take action to address this so my question for you is as the climate crisis worsens what do you think should and can be done to ensure that those who are most impacted have the support and resources they need and those who are most privileged don't simply just leave them behind I'm tremendously inspired by a youth-led global movement because we are counting on Millennials and those younger than them to address this problem as we've seen the older generation at least in this country still has this ridiculous debate on the actual science people in our countries say yo you believe in climate change no not belief do you believe the sky is blue it's science it's not about belief and yet America my country should be the leader on this and we have many leaders on this but our government still does not do it the it's gonna have to be a Martin Luther King situation it's going to have to be people leading until the leaders follow by applying direct pressure boycotts if necessary public shaming if necessary it cut every individual can do something to move the needle on this in every society on the world because that's the only way we will see progress the leaders have to be led well as an African I'm really delighted to hear a young American talking about climate justice because we we Africans are really pissed off sorry for most language anybody listening or watching was there something bad you know goods a carbon up there okay you guys put it and then we have the world so please I'm for climate justice I love it they've been concrete proposals put forward Antonia guitars United Nations secretary-general says he wants to really try to revivify the Climate Fund and to make sure that a hundred billion dollars is raised to make sure that those living in the least developed countries do get some money into this fund I mean do you think that these kind of solutions are going to work well of course they are and I don't know anyone I truly don't know anyone who is not committed to addressing this issue the press the United States I'm sorry yeah I think that was a cheap shot thank you he said it was a you said it was a cheap shot against our president calls it a hoax created by China this is very serious not against us well um if you look at the at what our country is doing we have some of the cleanest water some of the cleanest air on the planet and I'm contributing far less to the you know what we see happening globally having said that I don't want my grandchildren drinking dirty water or breathing dirty air so we're all in this together we're committed to it and I agree that what we should be doing is looking at the countries that are contributing the most to this holding them accountable per capita per capita per capita and holding them accountable and we should not be all in this together I don't think it's it serves us well to try to take potshots at any one country who doesn't not a potshot to the country but I mean you know don't tell me that you care about the unborn and then deny climate science because we're fighting for the unborn on this and it's not against you whatsoever and America we know the pollution that has gotten so much better in our country in the last 40 years you can see the skyline in Los Angeles now we know that we can take action collectively as a people and make change happen I think we have an obligation to share technology with those countries I think we have an obligation to share science with those countries I think we have a responsibility to share what we know and support them bring them along because it is a real issue that needs to be really on clean technology secret I think the question is very pertinent because in Europe you said but can it be done is it feasible it's a yes and it's not even a luxury it's not even a matter of do we want it or not it's essa T it's do-or-die globally secondly it has to be a race to the top it's no point to point to countries who are less ambitious on the goals we've got a lead from the top leadership is required Antonio Guterres has done that and the financing is access to technology the expertise but also the investments required and yes we can't blame New Year for all the climate adaptation needs we have because Nietzsche I would have wished it had the chance to have the type of industry that is polluted enough because amazing would have been a wealthy country and there is a total imbalance in our actions but every country has nationally determined contributions that's where we can assist but of course the big players need to take the biggest share yeah where it happens droughts deforestation everything is happening there already and then we're surprised that people migrate everybody looks for an opportunity and the chance to survive are you saying that's a direct outcome of inequality you're getting a lot of applause here today Fikret kargh well let's talk about another outcome of inequality and how the manifestations that affect every country Christina learners this director in Germany for the Center for feminist foreign policy and also an adviser to the German government what do you want to say to the panel a feminist movement there amongst others fights for gender equality and it's very core being hugely critical of the capitalist system and neoliberal policies as it keeps pushing political minorities amongst which women are the biggest group to the margins I'm wondering whether another current economic system and we will ever achieve equality isn't most gen equality work really only pinkwashing if we aren't fixing the very basic assumptions our current economic system is built on ok well you know I think that's a very good question but it's a very complex one and it is complex because we're talking about this globally and so the systems are so very different in so many different countries based on not only economic systems but based on religion in some countries that have religious traditions which really hold women back and deny them opportunity does the so I think the solution is going to be as complex as the question is but do you accept that the economic system really doesn't operate to the benefit I would say the best friends when you speak absolutely true in in many countries personally for me having come out of poverty in this country and had the opportunity to to use wisdom knowledge education contacts experiences in order to grow and achieve I have seen what this country has to offer not every country has those opportunities so it is complex in terms of where you are on the planet true what your particular religious traditions may or may not be what economic systems you are under so it there is no easy answer to that but does it exist absolutely as it exists does it exist somewhat even in this country absolutely it does again we will continue this battle for many years to come who agrees with that or do you feel that there are some solutions which have universal application regardless of where you're talking about gender inequality beige Africa Asian Middle East Europe the Americas or whatever III don't think the economic system issue it's a cultural issue I think in societies I mean if I speak about Africa and I think many of it will be relevant to other societies I think we have issues some our culture's which assume again has to be a good wife and it's not important to go to school you should have as many children as possible because a fertile woman is a good it's a good woman there is a lot of crap we need to change Oh apologize don't worry I got your back it's going out on the BBC MOU so we have a really serious fight here we have not only women issues but we have issues with gay people in Africa we have a terrible is you know phobic view about so we need to understand that elements of our culture's can be really bad and gonna have to stand up and deal with it John Fugelsang okay thank you we were in a period of tremendous advancement for women the majority of Americans voted for a woman to be president in 2016 that we've seen women lead and not wait again but the solutions obviously educate women empower women listen to women elect women and amounts of foreign aid amounts of foreign aid can and should be tied to cultures that lift women up and do not oppress them it's not that thank you ache table i well i completely I completely agree with everything that was internationally said page talk that is appropriate agree so I think it's all I think it's it's a it's all about power power and yeah access to to money but also we need to have the right policies we've done what we've done out in our politics is what you said in our policies we gender mark everything in investments in trade in assistance in anything we do with with our money or our politics is gender mark we KPI we we benchmark everything if it doesn't pass the test won't happen equally so to advance the stages of women in politics sometimes you need a quota a temporary provisional one to break through the glass ceiling the Netherlands okay I'm not talk about the Netherlands now but we've never had a female Prime Minister we're considered to be a aggressive country you need to see women all over you need to lean in the way has happened in many countries otherwise it won't happen women need role models women leaders don't necessarily always have an impact oh yeah I mean one of the criticisms but a lot of money Oprah may not you know the assumption of mediocre men is they get there they're chosen the women have to work three times as hard alright let me just get a show of hands here who feels that the economic system wherever there may be is loaded against women put your hands up I would say an overwhelming majority who thinks do that it doesn't well just the odd brave hand has gone up but okay a clear overwhelming majority there alright so we've looked again at one of the drivers or of inequality let's go to another question from the audience Andrew it's an gasps no Lord what do you want to say to the panel thanks Dana I think we started off the day realizing that the world we live in is unjust it is unfair and we as the world need a new world and you order a new social contract and I think you know we started talking this session about Thomas Piketty and I think I need to say it again for purposes of this session having heard what I've heard trickle-down economics has actually failed us particularly in my home in South Africa where poverty inequality has extended it has become entrenched and it affects the most marginalized people in that country so exclusion globally but also in South Africa is the hallmark today so my question to all of you what is that new social contract that we need that partnership that we need between citizens business and civil society how do we shape that new world thank you okay so this has been done in the past isn't it you know come tonight Austria the social contract where you have these three partners come together and making sure you all work towards the common good is that something that really would be one of the ways of combating inequality wherever it exists I think this very important question because it brings us back to the heart of the what we debating here and I believe the issue of inequality is a very serious issue not only in developing countries in Africa but also in Europe and it's threatening the fabric of society it's not just in Africa I look at the generations a yellow vest and France the collapse of liberal democracy breaks it look at what happening around us the world is crumbling around us even in the supposed to be safe and I flee after one twist in Africa we have a serious problem your country actually you know inequality increased under black rule I mean what is that is unacceptable so inequality is something to deal with governance and policies what we don't see vollis's and governments really dealing with that issue it's not happening another issue in Africa we never talk about it you know what is called Family Planning have you heard any Africa talk about Family Planning never think and you know what our population is growing at a rate much faster than our economic growth rate so before we do it you are running on a treadmill actually worse we are going backward you are not even stationary so and we're not talking about that is the taboo why why is it a taboo so we need to deal with these issues policies and we need to pay attention why an African woman need to have more than six children all right that question that's a good question and we're not asking that well no we're not asking that but a high infant mortality rate would be one of them but yes okay so do we need a new social contract because obviously South Africa is one of the most unequal countries in the world we do need a social contract and as we are having these conversations we've largely focused on governments but that social contract includes not only government but in a civil society it also includes those institutions within a country that worked beside the government and with the government and so the social contract not only is a contract that one makes with their government but with their communities with their families with the non-government organizations and it's going to require all of that together in order to create the civil societies that we want all right to what extent does this rising inequality perhaps jeopardize further progress on trying to combat inequality john fugelsang we have many wonderful billionaire philanthropist but there's a lot of billionaires who would not be at an event like this and they are billionaires because of the rigged system so it is incumbent upon those with the the privilege of wealth such as yourself such as yourself sir - but to dedicate your your philanthropy to the culture that produced you but charity alone cannot do it and never has it has to attack the systemic causes of inequality the rigged system and that's something that has to be done by individual nations and that's why people with empathy need to run for office because people with greed are already running for office we need the people who care about those they've never met to get in the game Minister we need to talk about technology and the digital economy the hacker has not yeah but it's also as digitalization of course offers tremendous opportunities artificial intelligence access new forms of learning in countries where already you're not on the grid how will you learn what will the Internet of Things provide for you so there's a risk of a double negative and I think there's a tremendous opportunity actually in the negative impact of globalization a there's awareness that everybody all across the globe is affected in a different way some of course from a position of being way behind minus 10 to some being at plus 5 becoming 3 on the ladder somewhere but we're all affected so we have a shared responsibility to tackle it in a way that actually beeps the biggest benefit and dividend for all from a viewpoint of social cohesion stability and prospects or and I do you think you need to look at it for opportunity and prospects okay just finally and very briefly what would success in twenty years time in tackling inequality look like to you briefly dr. Murray brahim I think if if governments stand up the problem is every conference I've been to every political leader I have the last few years was talking about inequality none of those guys told us what you gonna do about what I don't see any proposal or one-two-three-four in order to deal with inequality but everybody shout about an equality and it's time for us to see what how would I deal with that and from the outset but you say in equality I cannot imagine a society where everybody is ending the same we don't mean that secret it's a sustainable development goals it's a roadmap they have targets they have indicators and now we need every country to actually say how they will implement the policy that's the whole thing yeah I know but it's it can be done and countries are doing it it's a matter of compassion prioritization and seeing it through right Kay James what it looks like is that we tackle inequality at the government level at the community level but not only economically and not only through governments but in our own lives and how we treat each other and so I think it starts with the individual and I think it starts with a one person campaign to say we're gonna rid this Thank You John Fugelsang in 20 years if everyone on this globe understands that poverty hurts all of us we will have made progress we've made so much already universal basic income is a very controversial idea that is only going to become more popular and more discussed if you give a poor man a dollar at the beginning of the day it'll be in the rich man's hand by the end of the day but he will have stimulated a local economy and fed family during the day I having lived in America through the the gay rights movement and seeing how we went from a plague to marriage equality in 30 years the swiftness advancement of civil rights for any oppressed group ever I have so much faith in humans and our collective love for each other to realize as a youthful each of these people welcomed a junk-food the sang thank you very much indeed and indeed thank you to all my panel and to all my audience here at the Lincoln Center in New York I hope wherever you're listening or watching around the world that perhaps we've shed some light on a rather difficult issue that affects every country in the world from me Zana Badar we and the rest of the BBC World debate team goodbye [Applause] [Music]

Channel: Mo Ibrahim Foundation

Views: 26,497

Keywords: Mo Ibrahim, BBC, inequality

Id: uVpDV70TyEM

Length: 47min 5sec (2825 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 30 2019