In Fashion: Jamie Hawkesworth interview, uncut footage

Jamie Hawk says welcome to show studio thanks first question and it's a difficult one what makes a great fashion photograph yes Turkey I guess it should I guess a good fashion photo should probably feel quite timeless and maybe it can kind of live and breathe outside the context of fashion in a way so it only doesn't it doesn't net an air necessarily need the context of a fashion shoot to feel like a great photograph that makes sense it doesn't make sense it's interesting to me because when I was researching you to this a lot of the stuff that's written about your photographs is that they're sort of real roar in some way and often you shoot people into everyday settings or you go and find people you know in their hometowns or what have you but I was interested in how you use the fashion because actually the clothing often doesn't look that real often they look like they're wearing a costume yeah and I was interested in how you see fashion and why you work in that way well I did to begin with I mean I did spend an awful lot of time going to places and spending time in places and taking portraits of people just as they were and I appreciated you know an interesting hair car or the way that they stood or anything like that but then I once I started doing fashion and I I started to I did a shoot for man-about-town with Benjamin Bruno and it always stood out as a sort of moment for me of understanding how interesting fashion could be because you know is we it was fantastic to you know basically we took a bag of clothes to Newcastle and at you know it was just me and Ben and as we found people we dressed them and it was it was interesting because I would see someone that visually just stood out to me as little as as they were but then you know Ben might you know there's a picture of a kid that we dressed in a blue I think there's a Calvin Klein sue and it was a fantastic moment where I realized you could take someone it's already quite interesting and then elevate their character to something that you might not even be able to imagine to begin with so that was always that always stood out as a as a moment where I kind of understood the potential of what fashion can bring to a person I guess because often you're putting them in clothes that maybe aren't even akin to their style that the girl in the blue sea there's such attention she's sort of she's younger than she almost looks like if she was wearing a before we put the soup on she was wearing like a flowery dress which you know that's what she was wearing so it was the polar opposite of what that was but then that's that was kind of really interesting because I think with fashion there's always I think the the more sort of tension there is and something I always think that is really fantastic to have something to kind of push against so I think with fashion that naturally happens because you know I guess it is you know it's unfamiliar to see that girl wearing that blue suit so it's kind of individually an interesting experience to you know to try and articulate would you say that you like fashion what as a as a pro as a way of taking photos yeah yeah I'm interested are you interested in clothes do you like working within that medium yeah yeah of course I mean like I said I it is it's it's not it really breeds an opportunity to have something to push against and to explore your creativity and you know like us like I said before before that it was much it was always about me being by myself taking portraits of people you know in a very kind of simple I guess quite naive way so you know in fashion comes along it is difficult and it is sometimes it's quite hard to you know when you don't necessarily and because I think what's really important is when you work with a stylist you're very much on the same page so you know I appreciate their sensibility and they appreciate mine and then you can create something that sort of harmonious or you know it doesn't have to necessarily have to be harmonious in in the classical sense but you both understand what you're trying to do so in that respect you know I really like fashion and talk to me because I think your aesthetic at the moment is is popular and you've assured in this kind of movement you and maybe a couple of other photographers but you especially you know film there's a purity this sort of knowing awkwardness and how would you describe the feeling of your pictures I just used a few words then but maybe you disagree the feeling good question well I I mean I I tried to approach it in a very honest very honest way you know as in I don't try and overthink anything and it kind of sort and you know I really enjoy I think it's very important to talk a lot about stuff to this to the stylist as well and mine you know understand that we both like I say both trying to do this the same thing so I guess I'd like to think they're quite honest on it and honest aesthetic I guess I don't know and they have this I do think there's a naivety to some of them particularly in the way that some of the subjects hold themselves and often to me they seem to be about youth even if the people you're shooting aren't Ness I know you shoot a lot of young people but I'm interested do you think that there is something sort of does that relate to yourself you know you're a very young photographer you you know you're for a long time you were sort of you know you're shooting big big fashion images when you're like 26 27 like is there something what's biographical about your work you're saying that you're an awkward person I I think I guess because like I said about you know fashion can sometimes feel quite unfamiliar that you naturally as a photographer you kind of draw from what it is that you you've built over time so you know as I spent so much time photographing youth and you know obviously that I spent a lot of time at Preston photographing the people at the bus station so essentially I'm always I guess you know because that is so I wouldn't say it's easy but it's it's so natural for me to do that as in to be by myself as a photographer with my camera approaching people that I really think great so when you're in a situation where you know you have people around you have hair and makeup you know that kind of stuff I think you naturally draw draw from what it is that you can build like I say what you've built over time and your foundation of your sensibility to stuff so I guess you know I think my sensibility was was built a lot from the people in the neon sir's and stuff that I appreciated it as in something as a simple place as Preston so naturally that kind of comes through maybe but you don't see yourself reflected in your pictures I don't think so I know I don't under not me well I guess that isn't it my sensibility is me so I guess in a way yeah I guess you know as in everything that I love about the world is in the stuff that is in the sensibly that is built over time so I guess yeah I guess it probably does or not would you say you have what what is sort of your idea of beauty idea of beauty I think it's just in a I'd like to think it's just it it's a kind of open appreciation of any any possibility any possible kind of beauty in a very natural ways and I kind of try and doubt over like I say I don't sort of overthink what I find beautiful I just kind of feel it and if it feels right and then it should hopefully come across but I don't I don't kind of have a set rule of what I think is beautiful it's just I think it's important to feel quite open knows what that was thought what I always loved about traveling so much was the openness of being just with your camera and not kind of knowing what's going to come around the corner you know such a story that me and Ben did that stood out for me you know we went not knowing at all who we were going to shoot and you know we could have gone up there and not found anyone which happens all the time you know I've done stuff in the past where I've gone away for a week and not really found anyone at all but I think it's the openness of allowing that kind of things that kind of stuff to happen then you know or any kind of beauty can creep in to your vote it I guess you mentioned Preston I want to go back and sort of talk about your life and growing up and even before you went to Preston so do you come from a creative family what we what we like as a boy yeah no I I mean I I don't think there wasn't necessarily I mean I guess what's creative but there wasn't you know there wasn't a lot of art books around or you know we didn't go to galleries and we did shows and stuff like that but you know my mom and dad had kind of creative in all kinds of ways you know then so I guess that kind of probably seeped through somehow you know but like I say it not in a classical sense of appreciating art so to speak so and I didn't really like art at school at all I didn't quite understand what what was the point of it was what we liked when you were at school I think I was quite academic in a way as in I tried quite hard in you know site biology and you know stuff like that we popular uh I used to be called big ears a lot oh yeah they kind of did they're always the same sizes now so if you imagine my head much smaller so I so yeah but then once my head grew a bit bigger everyone they were normal so then I was stopped being called big ears got along with people I think and what were your ambitions what did you want to because you didn't you study forensic sciences when you went to university so when you were like in a pre university when you were getting to that adrià thinking about a job imagine taking pictures wasn't something you thought about no no not all I mean I wanted to be a geography teacher for a long time and then from from there I then got really interested in science and then I I failed my math course or my failed maths and I wanted to go to a better sixth form so I retook my maths and then I got it bent got into a better sixth form and then I studied psychology and biology there and that led to sort forensic science so would you say you were a statically minded at all like were you interested in what you wore did you look at pictures ever like were you intrigued because you seemed so intrigued by people now like did you look at people and no not all it was never a no no I sometimes think back like what was I thinking like what what did I spend my days thinking about because now I am a photographer and I spend an awful lot of time thinking about photography and art and stuff like that and appreciating it I kind of think what the hell was I think what was I spend my time thinking about but it was just never that all you know so when I I mean I funnily enough I I wanted to do forensic science because I you know I was doing psychology and biology so it kind of made sense but it was like watching seven that made me want to if you know the me it was quite in a way it was sort of a basic push because I didn't really know what I wanted to do yeah do you didn't know something it seems like in some ways as there's kind of mundane routines of being young are they something that whether consciously or not continue to inform your photograph so it seems like you're not particularly interested in the epic you know it's more these kind of routines and these like day-to-day people and places that interest you maybe is that reflecting back on that time I don't think so but maybe but I think that that kind of appreciation came for more that when photography did come around and you know when I swap I swapped to photography up just kind of discovering it in forensic science that I very quickly kind of fell in love whew I've really really enjoyed taking photographs so I always felt quite guilty when I wasn't taking pictures as in I I kind of felt something I found something that I really loved doing so I'm going to spend every second that I possibly can doing it so the most accessible thing to do would be to go outside and take photographs you know it's different if you need to book a studio or you want to go to the college studio to use the equipment and that's cool that takes a lot of time you know like booking stuff in or whatever so this the way that getting outside and photographing people and photographing places what I always felt was the best possible way to use my time now that I found something I really love doing and you've never felt before like you there was something you really love doing no no no so tell me about the move because you did forensics out it's like a year and then did you fail or did you just change so the course was kind of cut up into two halves it was very practical on one side and very law based on the other so the practical side they had this Preston bought a whole street and they made it intercom in mock crime scene houses which was really fantastic but only other side he would sit and you know you'd sit in a big hall with 250 people and you would learn law which was terrible and it was a none of it none of it was kind of going in at all so I failed my law exam and they asked me to come back during the summer to retake the Lord exam and I knew that I tried to possibly hard as I possibly could to pass it so I thought this is completely pointless and I just sort of sat down and thought well what do I like about the course and it was when you go into all the mock crime scene houses and gather evidence she would then just document it with a camera so it's very any was digital and it was very basic but it was like oh this is an interesting way to use photography rather than say taking a picture I don't know you made at the bowling alley or some so it was like it was a great it was a brand new way of seeing you know the way that photography was used and I you know I like the I like using my hands and being a using my hands with an object to then make something else so it was kind of an oh I've never never explored this at all and very quickly I kind of really did fall in love with doing that so how come they let you do it because they lost the course didn't ask so yes so I quit the forensics course and I run the photography course at Preston I don't know why I did that in that I could have probably tried to call any but I guess it again it was so all I'm so unfamiliar that I kind of just went with what seemed the most simplest route so I called the University and I spoke to a guy called John Aiken who's the head of the course and I was very honest with him I said I've been doing a forensic science course I really don't like it you know basically what I just said about you starting to use cameras and he said do you have a portfolio and I said divert anything and he said well spend the next 2-3 weeks building a portfolio of things that you like and people that you love you know what he said and come up for an interview so that's what I did what did you take pictures of I forgot my nan my skateboard some graffiti do you still have those food yeah I do yeah my friend my best mate at the time actually he studied photography at Norwich University and he kind of helped me a lot yeah he got and he sent me a picture that I gave to him of it was basically if a car and in the reflection of a car was a man and that man was graffiti so he has that anyway so you were into skateboarding then yeah were you guys no no but I really loved it I really enjoyed doing it a lot I used to do it for like four years I've still got my skateboard but I haven't been out for on it out for a long time I've pop it when you're younger you can fall down now I've got such a bad back but I'd probably not get better good to get back up yeah and so it's interesting though that you took pictures of if yeah your nan and or skateboarding just he's kind of like it's kind of similar to how you take pictures today I think it's like I don't not if you saw them but I guess in a way it was it was well I don't think so but it was stuff that was around yeah and I had this digital camera I had about a million different settings so I didn't know what the hell I was doing really but I built but I think what really stood out for the course was that I got I had I came across a book I think my friend gave it to me I can't quite remember it was called shots from the hip by a guy called Johnny stiletto yeah and he basically travelled I mean it's a little bit I guess he was kind of doing what Walker Evans did in the sense that he was shooting from his hip yeah on trains I know that Walker Evans he did a project where he photographed people sitting in trains but it was waist level and he hid it intentionally but anyway but yes so I really loved but I didn't know of all cribbens then I just came across this Johnny stiletto book that kind of was really interesting so when I went for the interview I kind of banged on about how interesting I thought this book was and they let me start in the second year of the course which was fantastic for financial you know I didn't have to do another another year so I did two years in photography and what point did you realize you were good and what point did anyone else realize you were good I don't know about realizing I was bit I was good but I I realized I mean I I realized I found something that I loved which is half the battle I think so I think I mean straightaway I knew I straightaway I kind of knew that as soon as I start the course as soon as I kind of you know got my you know became into the you know spent time with the teachers and stuff and the cameras I very quickly realized that you know because I couldn't stop myself from talking about it I'm thinking about it from you know doing it so I knew that it was a correct that you know I found something that I loved so it's interesting do you think it brought out more when you talk about your upbringing it sounds like you were quite relaxed and you know you were almost not particularly passionate and would you say it brought out a slight obsessive side in you or an intensity that maybe no definitely yeah was that what you like today do you think are you quite obsessive about what you're doing yeah I think so I mean I try my very best as in I kind of of course over time it kind of sometimes naturally it kind of dips up and down your you know your love for your craft I guess it kind of goes up and down then yeah now I yeah I forgot your question but I asked if you were obsessive oh okay yeah I get I get yeah I mean I again I still you know love photography a lot so I guess I guess so and would you say you were ambitious do you actually it's interesting like who do you think your peers are right now and do you look at them and I mean I'd like to say I don't but of course as in I try you know it's so easy to kind of get wrapped up in what other people do and what they're doing and you know I think that's just a natural human thing I guess I don't know so I would like to say that I don't but I kind of do and yeah I never try and think of who and my peers and stuff like that but I just kind of you know I look naturally and kind of see what other people do and you know I respect it or I think I'm not sure about that you know it's just a natural response yeah Ritchie what do you say that you're competitive like in the sense of do you feel do you feel that what drives you with just that love for taking pictures or is there now something else that's kicked in when you're part of an industry where there's a desire to achieve a certain level of something yeah I did for I thought there was a period where I was kind of you know as you do is you're trying to forge your career I guess as in build your your work and you know you know you of course you there's certain people that you want to work with because you respect their work so you work hard you know you look at the photographer's that they are working with in the new strive to you know to produce work that's just as strong because then those people will want to work with you so in that respect I guess you know they're naturally there is a competitiveness because simply because of if you respect a magazine then you look at the photographer's that work in that magazine and you kind of want to strive to do work so I guess in that respect most definitely I guess that yeah because I guess and actually you want to I think you don't want to kind of say oh well I'm competitive but think naturally you have to be a little bit and just going back to talk to me a little bit you mentioned shots from the hip but when you started when you started studying photography is that when you came across people who I know that Nigel Schaffer and someone you've greatly admired were there other photographers that you came across he really were quite formative for you when you saw their work yeah so I mean when I was at uni I I started to use the library an awful lot because again it was it was this brand-new also a find as in I didn't know any of these photographers and didn't and I never appreciated anything like that so it was like this incredible experience of coming across night Lionel's work or people you know there's so many and it was it was fantastic because it was like I'd never seen anything like it in autumn all different you know so is it it was like sort of feeding the mind very you know sight eating quickly sort of like you know it was really great yeah so this quote I mean it's so hard to say this is like who's your favorite singer album yeah there but but but Nigel was a guy that particularly you know I said earlier to you that I remember calling him up when I was at uni trying to assist him but I very quickly found that kind of I mean I know that Nigel does do fashion as well by very much saw him as a documentary photographer and I I did call I heard Elstad I call I called a a war photographer an Irish guy I've forgotten his name now but I tried to anyway I tried to call a lot of documentary photographers at the time and nobody needed assistance you know Nigel pretty much hung up on me so I you know I said then I spoke to Adam he was my tutor who you know and he recommended that I kind of you know looked at that fashion photographers because they need assistance so I kind of and I kind of in common sense she I didn't go for like the big photographers I kind of was looking in magazine two photographers work that I liked who were doing kind of because they're there in impressed you knew that a whole section of magazine said Adam was like go and have a look and find the Topaz if you like so there was a guy called Nick Hartley that I really liked at the time and I gave him a call and you know I gave so many people a call and knew you know Nick was fantastic in that he said book come down to London and help me out and I think at the time it was kind of just starting out so it was a perfect opportunity for him to have a guy help him you know I didn't ask for any money which then led to him let me use his darkroom and I learned to color print and so it was a really great you know something as simple as just calling a photographer from the magazine it wasn't his choice to do fashion that it was more just practical not at the beginning you know all because I didn't really know what it was so it was like you know we had a fashion module at the last year of university so of course I got I kind of got a better understanding of that but but I was calling people I was assisted I've tried to assist people as soon as I got on the course pretty much it was very quick that I thought it was him you know I spoke to Adam so it wasn't I never sat them for right I know I'm going to do fashion photography it kind of just happened that way in a way do you ever wish you were a documentary photographer I think I probably I think I am still because I do project well I mean you can be I don't fit I always struggle with the idea of like okay well I'm not mind me personally but when you're doing work and you're like well this is fashion this is documentary this is person arms I never understood that I always think it's just photography because it's all very personal you know I remember when I when I was at uni and once I graduated again I was approaching a lot of photographers to a system I always found it quite weird that their work was you know you've gone their website and you know not everyone but some people you would go and they'll be like well this is the personal section and then this is fashion and I and it would look so different to the personal or the document or the travel photography and I always really struggle with that I didn't understand why you would do work that looked different because the context is slightly different do you make time though for the personal work in the sense of work that is uncommitted where you would the driving force behind yeah of course yeah no I think it's incredibly it always has been invite vital I think yeah now I make a lot of time for that and how does it what tends to motivate you into doing that because you know when the work that you're doing in fashion you're shooting in amazing locations and with amazing models and great clothes and then I know you do a lot of travel type Commission's or you go to different places so what would it be that you feel is missing that then makes you want to do a personal piece of work like I say it's all quite personal so it's not it it's not I'm not in my head going okay I just did I've just done a fashion shoot so now I want to go to travel across Russia to do a personal project I just think in my head I want to do that for another piece of photography hmm if you know what you know to me yeah because I remember when I first got an agent and commissions start to come up a bit more and I remember I think I got asked to do a fashion for the team magazine at the time and I didn't and I thought it would at the time I felt it would be more interesting to do documentary for them in the sense of going somewhere and taking portraits and so I said to the magazine at a time you know if there's ever any documentary projects who you'd like me to do I'd really love to get involved in that and I remember it was a trip to Sweden to photograph potato Pickers and I was like this is a dream this is absolutely what I want to be doing and I you know I I went by myself and I had to go to these different far it was basically here it was an article on car Karstens gold vodka so obviously potatoes so I went to all the potato farms and I photographed potato Pickers and landscapes and trees and stuff like that and it was like it was like a really great fantastic moment where I kind of have I think I was using it Pentax actually at the time and I was like god I'm just taking photographs for a magazine on potato farms and it was like perfect so and that's always stuck with me so I've always continued to you know I do a lot of a Wall Street Journal documentary work for them and I've traveled you know any I've been so lucky that they've given me the amazing Commission's to like Antarctica and you know and it all came from that one project for in Sweden where it was like wow this this is also a part of fashion this is also also a part of photography so I don't know if I've got off your point no no it's interesting he say that I wonder like knowing you as a person icon and I've always thought this about you I can't imagine you going up to someone and asking to take their picture really are you quite shy sometimes how do you do it I just asked to take their portrait they never say no yeah no of course all the time but I mean I because I spent so much time doing it in Preston for example that I learned very quickly how to you know how you can conduct yourself when you because it isn't going to be scary to do you know I might you know if you're going up to a stranger kind of hiding you know even now because it's you know you don't know what they're going to say so I quickly realize that you know for example if I'd go up to a kid in in the bus station or whatever I wouldn't kind of say God you look fantastic and taking a picture it more be like oh you know I really like your haircut you know or I really like your jacket that you're wearing can I take a quick portrait because I'm doing a project on the bus station so I kind of I kind of learned quite quick but add but funnily enough I never I didn't I learnt quite quickly what to say not to say but I never thought about that actually probably the way that I am and the way that I not necessarily the way that I taught but the way that I sort of conduct myself affects the photo massively I think who said someone said to me I might have been Jason Evans he said that that was Jason he said what did he say and it made complete sense he said oh he said a lot of documentary photographers that he knows or people that do projects on porch are always quite tall and he talked about daniel meadows and he's very tall he said he was like i think that kind of helps when you're approaching people i don't know that's what's it take you seriously I don't know I can't I can't remember fully what he said but it just popped into my head I think there's something though it's interesting when you talk about your conduct and how that affects the photograph because I do wonder if there is something in in that that gets that response because I it's like you know fashion sons when they look like their work you kind of look like your pictures sometimes I and I wonder if I wonder if there is something in that in the sense of the way people respond and that you know how important is that relationship between you and the subject but I think people think I think people look like you know like you say about fashion designs are looking like their work but what well I guess good fashion designers is that it is in the sense that they're so passionate about what they're doing and there's to putting absolutely everything into what that craft then naturally you know it's going to somehow feel and look like them because there's so much of what they love about things in there you know because that's what we that's what we all look like is what we're you know I like your jacket so you put it on so it's like then I think you you know work naturally is you so you talk about Nigel Nigel looks like his work Denis it's perfect example you know so it's it's kind of I don't think it's necessarily forgotten were saying but yeah this yeah it's not a conscious thing I think it's just because you know you love so much what you're doing that it's naturally going to come out and kind of look like you you said for a long time that you found it hard to take pictures and models because I know you did you did that big Preston project where you would take as you saying the kids in the bus station and what why did you struggle to shoot models and because it's because straightaway you're in your mind you're in a very different place to what you're familiar with like for example the stuff that me and Ben were doing it was much more familiar because it was kids and it was you know people that we found but then when sheering once you then move into models it's a hole in your I think in your mind is such a different thing I remember a long time ago I had a meeting with Joe McKenna and at the time and it was so fantastic to meet Joe is what I think he was he was kind of I remember Julie my agent saying you know you should meet Joe McKenna so I met him and he you know he really loved all the portraits that I taking of kids but he he always said you know I don't quite know how we're going to go and photograph a model and I thought the same way you know but Anne I think just over time you just you learn how to get your sensibility across with something as unfamiliar as shooting a model but there was a period of time I think where you I think you rely like I said earlier you kind of rely on the things that you like to to articulate your picture so when there's a model I I loved for a long time I never I sort of shut myself off from the model and then put them in front of stuff that I really liked put in a poll or and I you know looking back out or not looking that it's not that long ago but and I still do it but it's sort of I've recently I very much got so much more interested in that you know as in people's face you know the face of a lot of the character of a model that the teeth that you know and and letting I really enjoy that coming up tried to allow that to come across more than rather than say we're lying on a set or relying on a corner of room to you know because for a long time that helped me understand how I could take a photograph of that model yeah did you ever worry about drifting into the into the world of kind of constructed reality where you were almost trying to make a picture with a big model like a picture that you taken in a bus station or a living room or something yeah I mean ironically I did it I did a story in a bus station on models yeah but I really loved that and you know that was with the sliders called Olivier Rizzo who's you know fantastic and it but he he because he's so articulate and he has a kind of such a deep understanding of what he's trying to do then it was felt very different to that to a constructed reality it just did whether that came across like that I don't know but for me it was a good it was an interesting process but again it was a you know you're always learning so that was a way again I was still but of course there was a fine line and it can you know yeah I know exactly what you're saying and it can if it does drift to that side of things and I think you're kind of in trouble because it doesn't get constructed realities you know if you're I'm trying to take it take a model to look like a kid in the bus station and I almost think you have to go million miles away from what it is that you're not you know and it sort of comes back if you know what it means so freely so for example to I don't know what I'm I think of as an example but you know like if the might of Tommy thing about the example that you might know that I've done you know if a model standing there in it in a funny dress you know Conda gotten not come to us on this funny so in this in it in the sense of it being no you bad choice of words there but I guess it's the most unfamiliar yeah sense of fashion you know you can say funny it's fine comedy funny yeah but no but I you know I did a project with Marie Emily and we shot we shot I think it was Nathalie Wessling on the edge of a cliff in comedy Garson and I loved those photographs and it's a million miles away from a kid wearing a track suit jacket yeah in a bus station so and I feel they still feel very much in the same world as the kids in the bus station but it's knowing and understanding that you have to go million miles away to then come home if you does that make sense yeah it doesn't make sense it's interesting when I interviewed David Simms for this Dame series he said that the worst thing for him would be not to be believed even and he said that as someone who takes these massive pictures for big fashion brands with it is obviously this kind of there's all this underbelly of commerce and but he still wants that sense of being believed do you understand that feeling yeah no of course I mean you aren't you ought I think any photographer strives to taken on an honest I guess that's what he's saying that he wants they thought you know that the photograph feels honest and believable and like I said you can it can be the most unbelievable situation but it doesn't mean it it's not it doesn't come across something believable and I i completely agree with in in that it's very important and i think any photographer strives to create work that feels yeah i guess i guess more honest than believable because I don't really mind if the photo looks unbelievable as in like wow how they're how they're how did they take that but like unbelievable in that you know if you like Natalie in the condo Garcon on a cliff edge is unbelievable in a sense that would never happen but it's belit bit but there's an honesty to it yeah yeah and I think that's William that's at that's at the heart of any kind of photograph I guess is that that comes that honesty comes across whether it's you know like the Walker Evans pitches in a train station or or David Simms photograph okay your stars very popular at the moment does it annoy you when people coffee you how do you mean what you mean it's take the tropes and the scent and the feel of your photography and make a version of that to get clients or Commission's yeah I mean I know what I know what you're saying I guess and of course you know like I said you take so much time to build something that's yours in a way you know the way that you print is you know I've spent so many hours printing and trying to build a pallet that I think is interesting and you know I for a long time I like when I was traveling man England them photographing kids and you know not just kids actually but all types of people then a lot of places I went to were quite I wouldn't say grimy but they're very very hard places you know not in this not in sense that someone's going to be killed or anything like that but in it being very cold and the light was very darlin so when I came to the dart room to print them I always wanted everything to have quite an optimism and like a celebration so I felt that if I printed stuff on the warmer side we you know with a bit more yellow or whatever it would bring optimism so for lots for so for a long time I I kept playing around with that a lot of that kind of color palette and that way of approaching things for a long time so of course if I do see well my that looks very similar to the way that I printed something in the past or psychic somehow but I think that's the nature photography did it lasted it no but not not in it not in sort of like an evil sense but in that I think you use kind of you look at photographers that you like or you admire or they're doing well or they're you know they're getting commissioned and you naturally are drawn to that and then your photography kind of comes out a little bit like that and then you kind of move for and then you build your own language and I you know it's like I guess it's like in a funny way of being a kid where you'll start talking like your parents and then then you'll have your own voice so I guess it just naturally happens a lot I guess there's a fine line where some people just don't move away from it and it's a bit of a joke not my tent not mark I'm not saying my photographs but you see all the time where you know someone's pictures are always look like somebody else's butt so there's a fine line and that's someone else's issue I guess but are you worried about and you've been very successful very quickly and you're very young and are you worried about having longevity in your career and being able to sort of have other styles and be known for trying different things because your pictures are so identifiable you know they really I'm not saying that I don't mean that I mean that in really positive way like they have this sensibility but that can be difficult in a way because there's a certain expectation of you when you walk into a shoe I presume yeah I mean longevity of courses I actually think is very important you know it's really important and I don't mean longevity in the sense of while you're being commissioned every five minutes to do something but just like the longevity of your work I guess you'll never you don't know because you're not 20 years at you know you can't jump and see if your work has longevity so I think I I like to think that it's a steady I feel at the moment in my head that this kind of very considered steady trying to move forward is a good it what I'm trying to do is in because of course if I sit down and go okay so today I'm going to try an on-camera flash because I I'm fed up of my own sensibility then that will never work you know I think that it's just a very slow you know it's like moving away from the corner of a room to then you know I I did a couple of shoots recently one for W with Ed Wood and a finger John McKenna that I love you know and it was an it and it feels very you know for me make my not come across like that but it's very different what I've done in the past but it's not a million miles away from that but it's just in my own head you know even a sense of you know for a long time I loved a camera on a tripod whereas now I really like kind of running around like a madman a little bit so it's sort of light but then I still come back to that and I know so it's like it's not a huge difference at all so I think it's a kind of I think what's really important is it is a slow less via slow steps forward would you say that you're a technically skilled photographer I mean no I guess not in the clip in the sense that I I always think for some reason if you if when someone says Technica wife I think of like a room full of flashes I don't know why which I don't necessarily do do but then there's all different types of technical things like printing of course I print a lot so in that side of things I feel quite confident but I know I guess in the classical sense I wouldn't be that much of a technical you know I'd like to think it's funny because I I remember when I was walking around a lot and looking at light you would you then you started to it's a very basic understanding but you'll know that you know at this time of the day if I stand on this side of the bus station it's going to be nice soft sunlight and then if I go on that side of the bus station it's very normal North facing light with no Sun on it so it's going to be very two different photographs but when you of course when you're first taking pictures you don't really think about stuff like that you just just taking pictures so I I start to think about light a lot more so now I guess I know that if I put that girl by that window in that light it's going to look because though because I'm shooting on film I can't see anything so I I know I know through doing and it's funny you talked about printing and shooting on film and like would you say that your your nostalgic in your approach sometimes because you're not you know you're not massively embracing of new photographic technologies and it seems like that's quite natural it's not like you know a contra like a sort of an oppressive nostalgic sentiment but yeah I'd never see using film as being nostalgic old I always think that's really weird because I'm you know I start in a start it's not gonna sound just another technique I mean it still is photography it's not like I'm being you know it's not like I'm going okay well Irving Penn use film so I'm going to use fill and in a nostalgic way like that makes sense it's just a form of photography that I learned you know and all through the through doing and being a photographer and the people that I've met you know like Nick come let me use his darkroom and all that kind of stuff then that's just the process that's happened to me and it's not about being nostalgic at all it's just a thing that's work for me and you know I'm not against digital it's just in the different it's just a way of photography that has an you know like when I was at university the first camera I got given was the camera that I use now there's a medium format you know as an RB 6/7 obviously it's not the same basically because that's broken but it's the same model but a newer version so I spent so much time fiddling around with that camera and learning everything about it you know then I wouldn't when I graduated from university I wasn't I didn't want to then go and use a digital camera because I spent so much time learning this it wasn't nostalgic it wasn't nostalgia at all it was more just because I'd spent so much time learning this object that that that's what I'm going to use for my work that makes sense that doesn't make sense there are so many young people that really dream of being photographers and want to be photographers and like why you why do you think that people have responded so well to your work why have you made her and others try so hard to and why do people like you Jamie do they I don't know I don't know really I I mean I guess I uh I I mean it's I mean who's to say what's that what what what doing well is and stuff I guess because you know a photographer that doesn't shoot for any magazine could be doing incredibly well in terms of how they feel about their own practice so it's I guess it's like if you I get I don't know really you touched on interesting I did that it which is like what what is your idea of success because you were basically saying if someone's happy with their own work you know there are amazing photographers who you know I was with Nigel Jeff in the day we were talking about Peter Mitchell and we were talking about photographers who produce this incredible incredible work but on you know necessarily let you know in vogue in the sense of in fashion yeah and physically in vogue as well and and I'm like what is your idea of success could you be one of those people who's just proud of the work that they're making or do you have these certain things that you want to achieve like goal posts or something yeah I yeah I think I mean you I think you kind of said it as in that I've I liked I mean I tell myself I guess that you're successful if you like your own work you know and you feel like you're producing work that's strong and good you know and you get yourself across in your work and that's a success but I actually think because of the nature of you know what we were talking about things being competitive and all that kind of stuff that I think a part of you naturally thinks well you know if I do that if I do this so if I do that then I then that makes me a success which i think is a dangerous game in a way because ultimately I think what make what you ultimately be happy with is or you'll feel like a success when you when you fully believe in what you doing not that they are in vogue do you really believe in what you're doing sometimes I do and then sometimes I doubt so it's like I said about going up and down it I think you know you you put your you put yourself in a situation where sometimes it's really tricky and you you know some people may not believe in what you're doing so then there's that struggle or vice versa or so then you feel kind of or I've sometimes feel bit down about things and not what this is this can't be photography this can't be what this is about then suddenly you'll do a shoe or you'll go away somewhere and you'll find a person or whatever and you'll be like this is what this is a photography and now I feel like I'm doing the right thing again so and then it'll go back to something you know you I guess it's just up and down nature does it bother you if people don't like the work if you show up someone you respect and they're not enamored with it do you find criticism difficult because it photographers aren't actually so much like designers and they don't get this like seasonal critique of their work like you know you get the show review you don't get the campaign review yeah so I guess you don't get that much feedback booth do you seek that out and people and do they bother you no I think sometimes I do I do seek it out which is not great as in a I sometimes you know so I there's a guy in my Lee who owns the dart room in which I print I'm always asked him oh what'd you think of this color would you finger this exposure you know as like her and as you know and I spin it and it's always find myself like why am i why why can't you just trust yourself Jamie because would you change it if you didn't like it anyway probably no no I do I do and I do like as in I'll change it engaged and always talking about it uh you know as it is sort of like yeah so I kind of yeah and you know I send pictures to my agent or whoever my friend and say you know Adam I took so what do you think of this and sometimes I'm thinking why am i relying on someone else to tell me this is good or bad but I think you just do it as a natural I mean I'm sure not everyone does but I kind of fallen into a little bit the thing of where I kind of you know I show my dad a lot of stuff and if he says no I must be crap then you know to me like and it's just absurd because people's sensibilities are so different so it's like you can't rely on anyone but yourself in a way to for to understand your work you've just got to believe in it so sometimes our doing sometimes oh okay and talk to me like a really pivotal person in your career talks about Benjamin Bruno the stylist who obviously works very closely with Jada B Anderson Jonathan Anderson the designer who does Jade Rumson reveille and they've been a big part of your work because you know you're very synonymous with sort of their work together I know you've worked with lots of other brands me meeting like that but talk to me about about Jonathan and building that aesthetic because he's someone that so understands the importance in fashion imagery in building a brand like almost as much as the clothing in terms of its importance yeah I mean I started to work with Jonathan on his first campaign because me and Ben were working together and then became his consultant I guess so then they also fell into place quite easily and simply at that time as in we you know being been working so closely together we'd already did three stories from out about town and we were in a fantastic place because we were working with Eminem Paris who were directing the magazine and they had a great ability to kind of let me and Ben do what we wanted and they never questioned or asked you know we sent in the pictures and it was fantastic and so we felt quite confident in what we were doing because you know we it felt great so we then took that kind of took what we were building there and brought it into djw Anderson and the web a to an extent so at the beginning it all felt quite natural it was a natural thing to do so when the campaign came up Jonathan kind of left me and bent to come up with what we thought would be good and I remember us talking about the inside of the feel it the the texture of an inside of a car and that came the campaign like it was so bad so simple but so we kind of built built it like that and for a long time when the JW Anderson campaign came up that Jonathan was great in the sense that he let me and then kind of get on with it and I think you know of course some you know as in this up and down but I think you know we bet we built a really great language for what Jonathan was about so it felt right so you know and also that was the first kind of big fashion campaign that I did so from there it was a great springboard to then to then okay so this is how you do a fashion campaign almost and how it should be and you know and then obviously when the way they came along I think the first thing we did was a was a look but there was a catalog for the menswear and we basically kind of took what we were doing from out about town we forgot boys on the beach and we took that into the web a so again it was a very natural thing and it was good and it was a it was a very good foundation for them moving forward you must feel more of an ownership of the sense of this sort of the jwn stand aesthetic because you know you were so pivotal and building it must be very different to if you go into like you know Calvin Klein and shoot a picture for that and you haven't helped develop the visual language which I guess because Johnson's Brown was a smaller young brand yeah it's funny because you you I think as a photographer I mean I do anyway and maybe this is not a good thing but I never really want to go a million miles away from anything I've done as in I don't really want to go in to you know a different branding and and do something completely different because I want it to look like my photograph but because of the people that you're working with and because of the sensibility of the team and the designer you take that on board and then naturally the work looks different because you're taking on many different you know what I did a meme you campaign with with Olivier for Miuccia Prada of course you know it's not a million miles away because that's the same photographer but it is in the visual language because you know Olivier is very different to Benjamin and Miuccia part is very different to Jonathan so it naturally moves apart but I'd like to think that it's still very much feels like a photograph that I respect and want to take does that make sense it does yeah it's interesting when when my trip was here he I asked him if he felt like you know the next picture he took was going to be his best and he said absolutely not there was no chance and that the way that the industry is shaped at the moment it doesn't lend itself to brilliant image making because of the commercial pressures and I wonder how you deal with with that pace and that pressure and do you feel like your next image is always going to be the best I'd really strive for it to be really genuinely do but it again if it varies because of course when you're in a situation and you've got like 31 looks to do in a day sometimes you know full of a that's kind of what we do because it's a different fingers as a catalog and it kind of feels good because we built it from the star so you kind of you're onboard with it but you're naturally never going to it's very different to then doing an editorial where you've got you know it's just different so in it you're not necessarily going to take your best ever photograph but then I always I really do strive to try and do a good job and I think that I think there is still room for great photographs actually yeah I do because I think that because there just is I think there is and I think that I guess you haven't known any different as well like Glen worked in the 90s and they knows what the industry once was like but this is how you've always known it yeah exactly yeah that's a that's the yeah perfect point is that I don't know any different and it you know but I guess I've been shooting for like seven five six years or something like that so it's very short I'm sure you know as in it I probably feel different but I mean yeah right now is I don't know any different and I'm you know still I still I hope I still believe that there's room to make right work for sure you know yeah I really do we talked you were talking a little bit about the pace here and Mike is interesting I interview a lot of fashion designers here about your age for this series and they always talk about the pressure that they're under and the cycle of fashion and they talked about it being really hard and it can be really lonely and I you know how do you like are you do you find that are you happy do you like your life no of course it is quite lonely when you're printing in the darkroom all day and you off somewhere by yourself or yeah of course but I think that's just getting human nature to feel a little bit like that but I feel like the pace of fashion is slowing now I don't know I feel yeah I don't maybe it isn't but I think that you you choose what you want to do I guess so you know I've I've tried to be a big become incredibly selective I guess in the sense you know not know in a bad way but just in a sense that I try and give myself time to print a project to then have time to think about it and not take on too much and just really try and understand and have the time to have a conversation with people and to talk to them and sit down and you know not just you know because it's so important to talk about stuff and I think I think that yeah so if you give yourself more time in you and you take on less and that breed that gives you more breathing space to to to read more to look at books or to you know to talk to talk to people and figure out I figure out figure it all out yeah Jamie thank you very much you

Channel: SHOWstudio

Views: 21,070

Rating: 4.9200001 out of 5

Keywords: in fashion, photography, lou stoppard, interview, fashion, showstudio, nick knight, jamie hawkesworth

Id: JyQdibHIY1U

Length: 59min 37sec (3577 seconds)

Published: Fri May 19 2017