>> I THINK PEOPLE ARE ENTERING
OUR SPACE. IT'S AN INCREDIBLE PRIVILEGE TO
BE HERE AND WELCOME ALL OF YOU TO ANOTHER ITERATION OF A
PLUS D MONDAYS. MY NAME IS SHANNON JACK SODGE. I'M ASSOCIATE VICE CHANCELLOR
FOR THE ARTS AND DESIGN HERE AT UC BERKELEY. IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO WELCOME YOU
TO ANOTHER ITERATION OF A PLUS D MONDAYS. MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
JOINING US TONIGHT ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WITH US
THROUGHOUT THE ACADEMIC YEAR. PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WITH US FOR
A FEW YEARS AS WE WELCOMED PEOPLE TO A PLUS D
UNDERSTANDS TO CELEBRATE THE PEOPLE, IDEAS, PRACTICES AND
MOVEMENTS THAT MOST MOVE THE BERKELEY FACULTY,
STUDENTS AND STAFF. TONIGHT WE'RE DOING THAT AGAIN
AS WE ARE DOING ALL THROUGHOUT THIS ACADEMIC YEAR ON
ZOOM. AND IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO WELCOME
YOU HERE TONIGHT. SOME OF YOU KNOW ALL TOO WELL
AND SOME OF YOU MAY BE LESS AWARE THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC
SERIES THAT ALSO COINCIDES WITH A COURSE OFFERED
AT UC BERKELEY HUMANITIES 20. AND IT'S LOVELY TO SEE
AND WELCOME ALL OF THE HOME 20 STUDENTS. SOME OF YOU ALSO KNOW THIS IS A
SERIES COCURATED BY A RANGE OF DEPARTMENTS ON CAMPUS,
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ART PRACTICE, THE BERKELEY
CENTER FOR NEW MEDIA, THE SCHOOL OF -- THE GRADUATE SCHOOL
OF JOURNALISM, CAL PERFORMANCES, BERKELEY -- THE
BERKELEY MUSEUM. THE DEPARTMENT OF THEATER DANCE
AND PERFORMANCE STUDIES, THE ARTS AND LAW
ADVOCATES AT BERKELEY LAW AND A RANGE OF OTHER CAMPUS
ORGANIZATIONS THAT COMBINE TOGETHER IN ORDER TO CREATE A
SERIES THAT INTRODUCES STUDENTS AND COMMUNITY TO ALL
THAT BERKELEY HAS TO OFFER AT THE INTERSECTION OF ART
TECHNOLOGY AND PUBLIC SERVICE. WE ALSO HAVE DECIDED TO NAME
THIS SERIES AROUND A SHARED THEME. WE DECIDED TO CALL IT TOGETHER,
REINVENTING POLITICS, REIMAGINING HEALTH, IN ORDER TO
REALLY THINK DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT THE CREATIVE FIELDS
WRIT LARGE CREATIVITY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT ACROSS A RANGE
OF CAMPUS ORGANIZATIONS HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE
REDEFINITION OF POLITICAL ENGAGEMENT AND THE REDEFINITION
OF OUR CONCEPTS OF HEALTH AND WHAT IT MEANS TO
THRIVE AND STRIVE AS A SOCIETY AT THIS TIME. HERE WE ARE TOGETHER AND WE'RE
INCREDIBLY PRIVILEGED TO BE ABLE TO TELL YOU THAT
TONIGHT'S EVENT IS CONCEIVED BY THE COLLEGE OF ENVIRONMENTAL
DESIGN ON OUR CAMPUS. AND IT WILL BE GUIDED BY OUR
STILL RELATIVELY NEW DEAN VISHAAN CHAKRABARTI. I'M GOING TO INTRODUCE HIM AND
HE'S GOING TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE PLAN TONIGHT. VISHAAN IS THE WILLIAM W
WORCESTER DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BERKELEY WHILE CONTINUING TO
SERVE AS FOUNDER AND CREATIVE PRACTICE FOR
ARCHITECTURE AND URBANISM PAU IN NEW YORK. HIS HIGHLY ACCLAIMED BOOK A
COUNTRY OF CITIES ARGUES THAL A MORE URBAN UNITED STATES
WOULD RESULT IN A MORE PROSPEROUS AND SUSTAINABLE
JOYOUS AND SOCIALLY MOBILE NATION. OF COURSE AS COVID ALL
THROUGHOUT THE LAST YEAR PROMPTED A RANGE OF CITIES TO
REIMAGINE STREETS, SIDEWALKS H LIVING SPACES AND
WORK SPACES, PARKS AND PARKING LOTS. HIS IDEAS HAVE BECOME ALL THE
MORE TIMELY, ALL THE MORE NECESSARY AS WE THINK UP UNTIL
THIS MOMENT WHAT IT MEANS TO REDEFINE THE TOGETHERNESS
ONLINE AND OFF LINE. ONE CAN DEFINE UP TO THE MINUTE
THINKING OF VISHAAN ABOUT WHAT THAT PROJECT ENTAILS
AT THE NEW YORK TIMES OR SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE AS
WELL AS MANY OTHER PUBLICATIONS. CHAKRABARTI'S PROFESSIONAL
PORTFOLIO INCLUDES A RANGE OF ACADEMIC AND INSTITUTIONAL
COMMISSIONS. I'LL NAME A COUPLE MIXED INCOME
VILLAGE IN MONGOLIA. A MASTER PLAN FOR THE MICHIGAN
CENTRAL STATION IN DETROIT. AS WELL AS HIS WORK OF COURSE
FOR MANHATTAN AFTER THE 911 ATTACKS. CHAKRABARTI HOLDS A BACHELOR
DEGREE FROM CORNELL UNIVERSITY. HE HAS BOTH BRAINS GOING. MASTERED STUDY PLANNING DEGREE
AT M.I.T. AND ALSO A MASTER OF ARCHITECTURE DEGREE
FROM UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BERKELEY. IN WELCOMING HIM THE FIRST TIME
AND NOW DO IT THE SECOND TIME WE'RE THRILLED THAT
HE IS WITH US AT HIS ALMA MATER. VISHAAN I'LL WELCOME YOU TO A
PLUS D MONDAYS. I'LL TURN THE SCREEN OVER TO YOU
SO YOU CAN TELL THE COMMUNITY THE WIDER PLAN FOR
TONIGHT. >> THANK YOU SHAN ONFOR THAT
WARM INTRODUCTION. IT'S SO NICE TO BE WITH YOU
AGAIN FOR THIS GREAT SERIES. TONIGHT IS A THRILLING EVENT. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE ACROSS
CAMPUS AND THE WORLD FOR TUNING IN. WE DO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE
TUNING IN FOR THIS UNIQUE LECTURE SERIES EVENT. TONIGHT I'M PLEASED TO SHARE
WITH YOU A 1 ON 1 INTERVIEW THAT I HAD WITH WORLD
RENOWNED ARCHITECTURE MY COLLEAGUE NORMAN FOSTER. TAPED FOR THIS AUDIENCE. WITH ANIMATIONS AND SPECIAL
EFFECTS TO SHOW CASE FASTER'S IDEAS AND STORIES. WE'RE PROUD THAT THIS VIDEO HAS
BEEN PRODUCED FOR YOU TONIGHT. JOHN KING THE ESTEEMED
ARCHITECTURE AND URBAN DESIGN CRITIC FOR SAN FRANCISCO
CHRONICLE AND I WILL BE IN DIALOGUE ABOUT FOSTER'S WORK. SO WITH THAT I'M GOING TO
INTRODUCE NORMAN. NORM FOSTER IS THE FOUNDER AND
DUTIVE CHAIRMAN OF FOSTER AND PARTNERS. A GLOBAL STUDIO FOR ARCHITECTURE
AND URBAN DESIGN ROOTED? SUSTAINABILITY. BEIJING AIRPORT, 30 SAINT MARY
AX AND THE GREAT COURT AT THE BRITISH MUSEUM ALSO IN
LONDON. AND THE MUSEUM OF FINE ARTS
EXPANSION IN BOSTON. HIS PROJECTS ALSO INCLUDE APPLE
PARK IN CALIFORNIA. BLOOMBERG'S EUROPEAN
HEADQUARTERS IN LONDON. AND THE NORTON MUSEUM OF ART IN
FLORIDA. SOME OF HIS CURRENT PROJECTS
INCLUDE 425 PARK AVENUE IN NEW YORK. AND THE GLOBAL HEARTS CENTER IN
CAIRO AND A COMMUNITY BOAT HOUSE IN HARLEM. HE IS PRESIDENT OF THE NORMAN
FOSTER FOUNDATION BASED IN MADRID WITH A GLOBAL REACH. TO HELP NEW GENERATIONS OF
ARCHITECTS, DESIGNERS AND URBANISTS ANTICIPATE THE FUTURE. NORMAN BECAME THE 21ST PRITS GER
PRIZE ARCHITECT IN 1999. TAKING THE TITLE OF LORD FOSTER
OF TAMES BANK. PLEASE SIT BACK AND ENJOY THIS
INTERVIEW. JOHN AND I WILL BE BACK TO TAKE
SOME QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. >> NORMAN THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US TODAY FOR THIS EXCITING CONVERSATION. WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE
CAMPUS AND THE GREATER BAY AREA COMMUNITY WILL BE
JOINING US TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR LIFE'S WORK AND YOUR
APPROACH TO ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN. IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF WE
COULD START OUR CONVERSATION IF YOU COULD TELL
US A BIT ABOUT YOUR ORIGIN STORY AND HOW AND WHY YOU
BECAME AN ARCHITECT. >> I LEFT 16 AT 16. ART AND AND THE ART COURSE AT
HIGH SCHOOL ARCHITECTURE WAS PART OF THAT. I'D ALWAYS BEEN FASCINATED BY
BUILDINGS. BUT I DIDN'T REALLY DISCOVER
ARCHITECTURE AS A PROFESSION UNTIL I STARTED
UNIVERSITY AT THE AGE OF 21. AND IT'S A RATHER PECULIAR ROOT. BUT BETWEEN 16 AND 18 I WORKED
IN MANCHESTER TOWN HALL. AND AT MY LUNCH BREAKS I
EXPLORED THE BUILDINGS. BUT NEVER -- I SHOULD EXPLAIN
THAT I CAME OUT OF A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE REALLY NOBODY
WENT TO UNIVERSITY. SO THE -- THE IDEA THAT I DIDN'T
GO INTO A BLUE COLLAR JOB BUT A WHITE COLLAR JOB IN
THE TOWN HALL WAS REALLY QUITE AN EXCEPTION. THAT WAS FOLLOWED BY 2 YEARS
MILITARY SERVICE. AND IT'S A LONG STORY BUT
EVENTUALLY I FOUND MY WAY INTO A FIRM OF ARCHITECTS BY THE
BACK DOOR TRADING ON MY -- ON MY BACKGROUND IN
MANCHESTER TOWN HALL. SO I WAS ESSENTIALLY WORKING ON
THE CONTRACT SIDE. BUT I WAS FASCINATED BY
ARCHITECTURE. AND DISCOVERED IN MY LOCAL
LIBRARY TOWARDS NEW ARCHITECTURE, IN THE NATURE OF
MATERIALS BY FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT, SO I WAS YOU KNOW I HAD
THIS PRIVATE PASSION. AND ONE DAY IN THIS FIRM OF
ARCHITECTS I KIND OF PLUCKED UP COURAGE TO ASK THE
YOUNGEST ARCHITECT THERE WHAT HE THOUGHT OF FRANK LLOYD
WRIGHT AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID IS HE STUDYING AT
THE COLLEGE OF ART TOO? BECAUSE HE WAS DOING A PART TIME
COURSE AT THE COLLEGE OF ART TO STUDY ARCHITECTURE. AND I SUDDENLY REALIZED THAT
PERHAPS I WAS MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THE SUBJECT
THAN -- SO THAT LED ME TO START ASKING QUESTIONS. THIS WAS THE DRAWING OFFICE. AND THIS WAS AN AGE WHERE
EVERYBODY WORE WHITE SMOCKS, A KIND OF WHITE OVERALLS AND
THESE WERE COVERED IN INK STAINS AND EVERYBODY WOULD BE
DRAWING WITH RULING PENS AND INK AND WIPING THE PENS
CLEAN ON THE SMOCK. THIS WAS A KIND OF BADGE OF
HONOR. I LOOKED UP TO THESE PEOPLE IN
THE WHITE SMOCKS AS A KIND OF EXTRAORDINARY
UNATTAINABLE HIERARCHY. EVENTUALLY I GOT TALKING TO
THESE INDIVIDUALS AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU
BECOME AN ARCHITECT? THEY SAID WELL, YOU APPLY TO A
SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE. BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A
PORTFOLIO. SO I STARTED TO TAKE DRAWINGS
HOME FROM THE ARCHITECT'S OFFICE PERSPECTIVES. AND I STARTED -- I'D ALWAYS
SKETCHED. SO I STARTED TO TAKE THAT MORE
SERIOUSLY AND I BUILT UP A PORTFOLIO. I SUMMONED COURAGE TO KNOCK ON
THE DOOR OF THE PRINCIPLE AND TELL HIM THAT I
WAS GOING TO STUDY ARCHITECTURE AND I THOUGHT THAT
HE SHOULD KNOW. I'VE GOT A PORTFOLIO. HE SAID WHY DON'T YOU SHOW ME? THE NEXT DAY I SHOWED HIM. HE SAID YOU'RE A SQUARE PEG IN A
ROUND HOLE. THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE. I FOUND MYSELF WITH A WHITE
SMOCK IN THE DRAWING OFFICE WITH A DRAWING BOARD AND WITH A
PROJECT. A BOOK OF STANDARDS TO BE ABLE
TO CALCULATE STAIRS AND SO ON. AND SO EVENTUALLY I -- HE TRIED
TO PERSUADE ME NOT TO GO TO UNIVERSITY. AND TO STAY WITH HIM. AND I GOT TO OFFERS. I GOT AN OFFER TO STUDY AT THE
SCHOOL OF ART. AND A GRANT TO PAY THE FEES AND
COST OF LIVING. AND I APPLIED ALSO TO THE
UNIVERSITY. I WAS TOLD THERE'S NO POINT IN
APPLYING TO THE UNIVERSITY BECAUSE YOU DON'T
HAVE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE UNIVERSITY BECAUSE YOU LEFT
SCHOOL AT 16. YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW,
ADVANCED GCE'S OR WHATEVER IT WAS AT THE TIME. I WAS INTERVIEWED AND THE RESULT
OF THE INTERVIEW WAS THE BAD NEWS IS WE CAN'T GIVE
YOU A DEGREE. THE GOOD NEWS IS WE'D LOVE FOR
YOU TO GO THROUGH THE COURSE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. AND AT THE END OF IT WE'LL GIVE
YOU A DIPLOMA. SO -- BUT IT WAS A CATCH 22. BECAUSE I'D LEFT SCHOOL AT 16 I
DIDN'T QUALIFY FOR ANY FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. SO AT THAT POINT I DECIDED THAT
I WOULD GO TO THE UNIVERSITY AND I WOULD USE MY
SKILLS TO WORK PART TIME AND TO PAY MY WAY THROUGH
UNIVERSITY WHICH WAS HOW I GOT INTO ARCHITECTURE. >> NORMAN, WHAT'S FASCINATING
ABOUT THAT STORY, THERE ARE THINGS THAT MUST HAVE
PREDATED WHEN YOU WERE 16. YOU MUST HAVE HAD FASCINATION
WITH BUILDINGS AND WITHDRAWING EVEN PRIOR TO THAT
EXPERIENCE, NO? >> YES I WOULD - ALTHOUGH I
WOULD SKETCH -- I MEAN I'VE COME ACROSS SOME OF THE
TECHNICAL BOOKS FROM MY TIME IN MILITARY SERVICE. AND THEY'RE ABOUT RADAR
TECHNOLOGY. AND THE FRONT IS ALL VERY NEAT
IN INK. AND AT THE BACK IT'S FULL OF
SKETCHES. I WAS OBVIOUSLY IN THE MIDDLE OF
THESE CLASSES AND SKETCHES HYDROPLANES, AIR
CRAFTS, SPORTS CARS. AND IN MY TIME AT MANCHESTER,
REALLY DID GET TO KNOW SOME OF THE EXTRAORDINARY WORKS
OF ARCHITECTURE. I WASN'T AWARE THEY WERE
EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ARCHITECTURE. I WALKED LONG DISTANCE TO
DISCOVER THE DAILY EXPRESS BUILDING. WHICH WAS A 30S MODERNIST
BUILDING. THE VICTORIANS ARCADES, RILE
AND'S LIBRARY. MONUMENTS OF VICTORIAN
ARCHITECTURE. IT WAS ONLY LATER THAT I WAS
ABLE TO PERHAPS RATIONALIZE THIS. SO I THINK THE INTEREST -- THE
PASSION HAD ALWAYS BEEN THERE. BUT I'D NEVER BEEN ABLE TO MAKE
THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THAT INTEREST, THAT PASSION AND
THE ACTUAL PROFESSION OF ARCHITECTURE. IT JUST INCOMPLETELY
UNATTAINABLE. HENCE THE CULTURAL SHOCK WHEN I
HAD THAT CONVERSATION INTO MY ASTONISHMENT THIS GUY
DIDN'T KNOW WHO FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT WAS. >> TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN A MAIN
STAY OF YOUR PRACTICE AND THINKING. YOU'VE SPOKEN OFTEN ABOUT YOUR
INSPIRATION FROM BUCK MINISTER FULLER. MAYBE YOU COULD TALK ABOUT HOW
HE INFLUENCED YOUR WORK. ARE THEIR OTHERS. >> FULLER HAD HIS FIRST PROJECT
IN THE UK AND WANTED AN ARCHITECT TO COLLABORATE WITH. AND I WAS INTRODUCED TO BUCKY
AND THE PERSON WHO INTRODUCED ME WHO WAS A FRIEND,
BUCKY AND MYSELF WE HAD A LUNCH AND AT THE END OF THE
LUNCH, I ONLY REALIZED AFTERWARDS BUCKY HAD
INTERROGATED ME AND SO I -- I SAID AGAIN MR. FULLER, YOU
KNOW, MY STUDIO'S READY -- >> I'M SORRY HOW OLD WERE YOU AT
THIS POINT? >> OH, GOSH. I'D HAVE TO WORK THAT OUT. >> SORRY. >> 1970.
SO I'M 35. >> SO HE SAID OH, NO I'M NOT
COMING TO SEE YOU OR YOUR OFFICE. IT'S ALL DECIDED. WE'RE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER. AND THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF AN
EXTRAORDINARY 12 YEAR COLLABORATION UP TO THE TIME
THAT HE PASSED AWAY. I MEAN THAT WAS ONLY A FEW DAYS
AFTER TALKED ON MY BEHALF AT THE AWARD SHOW FOR THE
QUEEN'S ROYAL GOLD MEDAL IN 1985. BUT BUCKY WAS -- BUCKY WAS AN
EXTRAORDINARY CONSCIENCE AND HE WAS THE FIRST GREEN
ARCHITECT. ALTHOUGH IT WASN'T ALL GREEN AT
THAT TIME. AND I THINK IN A DIFFERENT WAY
MY OWN INTEREST IN ISSUES OF SUSTAINABILITY
RECYCLING, WORKING WITH NATURE, I THINK ALL THAT CAME
OUT IN OUR CONVERSATION TOGETHER OVER LUNCH. AND I MEAN BUCKY WAS JUST AN
EXTRAORDINARY -- >> WHAT DO YOU THINK HIS CONCERN
ABOUT IT? HE WAS SO AHEAD OF HIS TIME? >> ALWAYS SAY THAT SOME PEOPLE
INSPIRE YOU BY THEIR YOUTH. AND HE WAS DECADES OLDER THAN I
WAS AT THAT TIME. AND HE WAS ABSOLUTELY
INSPIRATIONAL. AND JUST, YOU KNOW SO YOUTHFUL
IN HIS THINKING, HIS VISION. AND THE OPPOSITE OF THE KIND OF
PICTURE THAT MOST JOURNALISTS WOULD WRITE ABOUT
HIM AT THAT TIME. HE WAS AN INCREDIBLE HUMAN
PERSON. AND VERY SENSITIVE TO -- TO THE
NATURAL WORLD. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK GAVE HIM
THOSE SENSIBILITIES. HE SEEMED SO AHEAD OF HIS TIME
IN SO MANY WAYS. DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THAT TO
ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR? >> I THINK HE WAS A NATURAL KIND
OF REBEL. I MEAN HARVARD KICKED HIM OUT OF
THEIR UNIVERSITY. NOT ONCE BUT TWICE. AND THEN GAVE HIM THE VERY HIGH
HONOR. I THINK THE PRIZE FOR POETRY. AND I THINK HE -- YOU KNOW THIS
WAS -- THIS WAS I THINK REALLY RATHER AMUSED HIM. HE RECOUNT TODAY ON MANY
OCCASIONS. BUT I REMEMBER THE WAY IN WHICH
AROUND A DESIGN SESSION THIS INDIVIDUAL WITH HIS
REPUTATION FOR EXTRAORDINARY TALKS AND INSPIRING YOUNG PEOPLE
AND OLDS. WOULD BE INTENSELY DOWN TO
EARTH. WOULD TALK ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND
THEATER WHEN CHALLENGED WITH A ROUND TABLE OF
DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES. I BROUGHT TOGETHER ENGINEERS
COST ACCOUNTANTS. AND THEY REALLY CHALLENGED AND
STRETCHED HIM. HE -- ALL THE PRACTICAL ISSUES
OF WATER PROOFING AND SO ON WAS COMPLETE LATERAL
THINKING. HE SAID THINK ABOUT IT AS A
SUBMARINE. A SUBMARINE IS CONSTANTLY
DRAINED. AND THEN HE WOULD DO A DRAWING
OF A GEODESIC SUBMARINE WITH THE DIAGONALS. >> YOU KNOW, HE SHOULD HAVE COME
TO BERKELEY, WE WOULD HAVE DONE A BUNCH BETTER JOB
WITH HIM THAN HARVARD. WE'RE SURROUNDED BY GEODESIC
DOMES IN THE WOODS OUT HERE. >> I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE IN TERMS
OF THE MENTORS AND THE TEACHERS THAT I'VE BEEN
INFLUENCED BY. I -- TOWARDS THE END OF MY TIME
AT MANCHESTER, I GOT A HENRY FELLOWSHIP WHICH WAS
TENABLE AT YAILOR HARVARD. I DECIDED AT THE TIME IN FAVOR
OF YAIL. PAUL RUDD ON HAD RECENTLY TAKEN
OVER THE CHAIR THERE. I WAS IMPRESSED BY HIS WORK
PARTICULARLY HIS EXPERIMENTAL HOUSES. HE'D GOTTEN INTO A BRAND OF
CONCRETE BRUTALISM. AND HALFWAY THROUGH THE YEAR THE
COURSE WAS JOINED BY AT HIS INVITATION. THIS IS ONE OF THE INCREDIBLE
STRENGTHS OF RUDOLF THAT HE WOULD BRING CRITICS TO JOIN
HIM AND INFLUENCE THE STUDENTS AND THOSE WOULD BE
ARCHITECTS WHOSE WORK IT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY FIND FAVOR
WITH. BUT HE HAD THE SUFFICIENT
CONFIDENCE TO BE ABLE TO BRING THESE DIFFERENT VOICES. AND ONE WAS SURGE SERMYOV. THIS WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY
CONVERSATION. IF PAUL RUDOLF CAME TO THE
DRAWING BOARD AND THERE WASN'T A DRAWING OR MODEL TO
DISCUSS THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO CONVERSATION. HE JUST WALKED ON. IF SURGE SERMYOV CAME TO YOUR
DRAWING BOARD HE WANTED TO TALK OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE
PROJECT. WHETHER IT SHOULD BE TAKING THAT
FORM. WHETHER IT SHOULD ACTUALLY EXIST
AT ALL. IT WAS TOTALLY PHILOSOPHICAL. THIS WAS A GREAT COMBINATION. IN MANY WAYS I THINK THAT I'VE
ALWAYS RESPECTED ACTION RATHER THAN THEORY OR KIND OF
GOOD WORDS. BUT IN A WAY THAT COMBINATION OF
QUESTIONING, CHALLENGING, ANALYZING AT THE
MOST BASIC LEVEL COMBINED WITH -- WITH ACTION IN TERMS OF
-- OF DEMONSTRATING THROUGH A BUILT PROJECT. SO I THINK THAT -- THAT, YOU
KNOW, THAT THOSE COMPLIMENTARY INFLUENCES HAVE
BEEN -- BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY FORTUNATE IN
THAT. AND MANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS TOO. >> THAT WAS SUCH AN AMAZING
PERIOD OF TIME, NORMAN. DO YOU THINK THAT ARCHITECT AS
WE PRACTICE IT TODAY BECAUSE I DO WANT TO MOVE INTO
YOUR CURRENT PRACTICE. I THINK IT'S A GOOD SEGUE. DO WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITIES OR
IS THE MILIEU AROUND ARCHITECT CHANGED SO MUCH FOR
YOUNG PEOPLE FOR PRACTITIONERS, OR DO YOU THINK
THAT WE STILL HAVE SORT OF OUR VERSION OF WHAT YOU
EXPERIENCED AT THAT MOMENT? >> I THINK WE HAVE MORE
OPPORTUNITIES NOW. IN THE SENSE THAT THERE ARE IN
THE POLITICAL DOMAIN, THERE ARE MORE COMPETITIONS. WE TAKE COMPETITIONS AND THE
OPPORTUNITIES THAT FLOW FROM COMPETITIONS, WHETHER
THEY'RE INFORMAL AS IN AMERICA. THAT THEY'RE VERY VERY MUCH A
STRONG TRADITION. THEY'RE MORE FORMALIZED IN
EUROPE. YOU STILL HAVE THE EQUIVALENT OF
COMPANIES AND UNIVERSITIES THAT WILL HOLD
THEIR OWN VERSION. BUT THEN YOU HAVE A EUROPEAN
WIDE SYSTEM OF PUBLIC BUILDINGS GOING OUT. >> RIGHT. >> SO I THINK THAT -- IF I THINK
BACK TO THE EARLY DAYS OF THE PRACTICE, A COMPETITION
WAS -- I MEAN ONCE IN A YEAR IF YOU WERE LUCKY EVENT. AND THEN THE CHANCES WERE, IT
WOULDN'T BE PUBLICIZED. YOU WOULDN'T READ THE RESULTS. YOU WOULDN'T READ A REPORT. SO THAT IS A MAJOR SHIFT. AND I THINK IT'S OPENED A LOT OF
DOORS PARTICULARLY TO YOUNGER ARCHITECTS. AND THEN THE TECHNOLOGY IS --
HAS TRANSFORMED. I MEAN IT'S GUILT TO GO BACK AND
REMEMBER THOSE TIMES WHEN EVERY LINE WAS DRAWN WITH A
RULING PEN. THEN IT BECAME A REPEATOGRAPH
AND SO ON. BUT THEN GIVEN THOSE MASSIVE
CHANGES, ARE WE SEEING A HUGE INCREASE IN THE QUALITY OF
ARCHITECTURE? I DON'T THINK WE ARE. THAT'S NOT TO SAY THERE AREN'T,
YOU KNOW, OUTSTANDING WORKS BEING CREATED AS
IN ANY AGE. BUT I WOULDN'T ATTRIBUTE THAT TO
THE 2 FACTORS OF CHANGE. GREATER OPPORTUNITY THROUGH
COMPETITIONS AND A DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED
TECHNOLOGY. IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE ABLE TO
ANTICIPATE THAT THE PERFORMANCE OF BUILDINGS FOR
BUILDINGS TO WORK WITH NATURE AND CONSUME LESS ENERGY AND
PREDICT HOW THEY WILL BEHAVE THROUGH COMPUTER
ANALYSIS. THAT WITHOUT QUESTION. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN GOING
RECENTLY IN SOME WRITING OVER GREAT MONUMENTS OF MODERN
ARCHITECTURE AND I'M THINKING BACK TO A PERIOD OF
TIME FOR A BUILDING THAT WAS DESCRIBED AT THE TIME AS AN
INDUSTRIAL VERSAILLES AND THAT WAS FOR 1950 AT THE
GENERAL MOTORS TECHNICAL CENTER. AN EXTRAORDINARY TALENTED
ARCHITECT. AND IF YOU LOOK AT WORKS OF
CORININ AND OTHERS OF THAT PERIOD. YOU LOOK AT THE TWA IN NEW YORK
RECENTLY GIVEN NEW LIFE AS A HOTEL. AND THAT BEING CREATED IN A --
YOU KNOW A -- AN AGE BEFORE DIGITAL. AND THINKING OF THAT GENERAL
MOTORS CENTER SARININ BROUGHT TOGETHER ARTISTS AND
DESIGNERS. AND YOU LOOK AT THE CALIBER OF
THE EAMES, GEORGE NELSON, THESE WERE -- THERE WAS
A CULTURE OF MODERNISM. AND PERHAPS WHAT I'M -- AS I
THINK MY WAY THROUGH THIS, AS A CHILD I WAS HUGELY
INFLUENCED BY THE SCIENCE FICTION OF THAT TIME. THERE WAS A MAGAZINE, A WEEKLY
MAGAZINE CALLED THE EAGLE. AND IT INTRODUCED YOUNG READERS
LIKE MYSELF IN EARLY TEENS TO THE EXCITING WORLD OF
ATOMIC ENERGY, OF FAST AIR CRAFT, CROSS SECTION
DRAWINGS REVEALED THE INNARDS OF A LOCOMOTIVE. THE FUTURE WAS BRIGHT. WAS -- SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY
THAT IMAGE OF THE FUTURE, IF YOU THINK OF FILMS
LIKE BLADE RUNNER OR BRAZIL, THOSE FILMS WHICH
ANTICIPATE -- SOMEHOW THE FUTURE LOST ITS BRIGHTNESS AND
APPEAL AND I GUESS IN A WAY PERHAPS I'M STILL IN THAT
TIME WARP. WHERE FOR ME THE FUTURE IS
EXCITING AND -- >> IT'S SO FUNNY YOU MENTION
THIS. I THINK THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. I JUST FINISHED THE MANUSCRIPT
FOR MY LAST BOOK MY NEXT BOOK. IN THE LAST CHAPTER I WAS
SEARCHING FOR WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THERE'S ONLY ONE IN A MAJOR POP
CULTURE MOVIE WHICH IS BLACK PANTHER AND WHACKANDA. IT'S UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING. NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART. WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE
EAMES WORKING WITH NELSON OR CALDERA, THE TOTALITY
OF ARCHITECTURE IN ART, IS THERE A PROJECT OF YOURS THAT
STANDS OUT FOR YOU THAT YOU THINK EXEMPLIFIES THAT? >> WHEN I THINK OF THE -- THE
PROGRESSIVE INDIVIDUALS WHO'VE COMMISSIONED US. AND IF I BRING IT RIGHT UP TO
DATE THE MOST RECENT PROJECTS HAVE BEEN FOR BLOOMBERG
THE EUROPEAN HEADQUARTERS, FOR APPLE IN
CUPERTINO, FOR COMCAST IN PHILADELPHIA. ALL OF THESE PROJECTS HAVE
INCREDIBLE INDIVIDUALS WHO CARE DESPERATELY ABOUT THE
HEALTH OF THEIR WORK FORCE. AND THAT'S MANIFEST IN THE
INTEGRATION OF ART IS MANIFEST IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL
SYSTEMS, UNDERWRITTEN BY RESEARCH IN THEIR PROJECTS. AND I'VE TALKING ABOUT THIS
RECENTLY, THESE ARE BUILDINGS WHICH ARE HEALTHIER
BELIEVES. SO -- AND SO AS WE BOTH KNOW
STUDIES SINCE THEN HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT WHAT WE
THOUGHT WAS A SUBJECTIVE VALUE, NOW SCIENTIFICALLY
PROVEN. THE GREENER HEALTHIER BUILDING
MORE NATURALLY VENTED WITH MORE AIR CHANGES
INDIVIDUALS PERFORM BETTER. NOT ALL OF THOSE BUILDINGS. 2 OUT OF THE 3 THAT I HAD
MENTIONED INTEGRATE SIGNIFICANT WORKS OF ART BY
CONTEMPORARY ARTISTS. I THINK POST PANDEMIC THERE IS A
POSSIBILITY THAT HEALTHIER BUILDINGS WHICH HAD
BEEN A FRINGE ACTIVITY UP TO NOW MAYBE THEY BECOME MORE
MAIN STREAM. AND SOME OF THE MORE OBSOLETE
BUILDINGS BECOME RETROFITTED AND PERHAPS IN THAT
PROCESS BECOME RETO FITTED FOR OTHER USES. IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE ARE
SEEING A WAVE OF WORK PLACE BUILDINGS WHICH CAN BE
RECYCLED INTO RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. AND WE'RE SEEING BUILDINGS THAT
WERE ONCE JUST FULL OF PEOPLE LABOR INTENSIVE POSTAL
SORTING OFFICES, TELEPHONE EXCHANGES, WHERE ROW
UPON ROW OF HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WOULD BE PLUGGING THINGS
INTO -- ALL OF THAT HAS BEEN ELIMINATED BY THE
REVOLUTION OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. WE'RE ONLY JUST SEEING THE TIP
OF THAT ICEBERG AND THOSE BUILDINGS WHICH WERE IN
THE PAST RECYCLED FOR THE CREATIVE INDUSTRIES. I THINK ABOUT THE STUDIO THAT WE
CREATED FOR OURSELVES IN THE 1980S. IT WAS A VAST DOUBLE HEIGHT
SPACE. SO CORPORATE ENTITIES ARE NOW
SEEING THE VIRTUES OF THOSE KIND OF SPACES WHICH OFFER
A GREATER VARIETY. AND A MUCH MORE HUMAN WITH MORE
NATURAL LIGHT. BIGGER VOLUME SPACE. A MIXTURE OF SPACES. AND EMPHASIZING THE SOCIAL
DIMENSION OF THE WORK PLACE. ALMOST MORE LIKE A COMMUNITY
CENTER IN THAT SENSE. >> SO NORMAN AS WE THINK ABOUT
THAT, AS WE COME OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, AS YOU THINK ABOUT
ISSUES OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND THE WAY
BUILDINGS MAY BE DIFFERENT IN THE FUTURE IN TERMS OF HOW
THEY'RE USED OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS TIME OF GREAT
SOCIAL UPHEAVAL. THE PANDEMIC FORESHADOWS WHAT
CLIMATE CHANGE MIGHT BECOME IN TERMS OF OUR LIVES,
THE RACIAL RECKONING WE'RE GOING THROUGH, WE'RE GOING
TO TALK ABOUT CITIES WHEN WE TALK ABOUT YOUR
FOUNDATION, HOW DOES THE ROLE OF THE ARCHITECT -- YOU WERE
TALKING ABOUT BUCKY AND KIND OF HIS KIND OF RELATIONSHIP
TO SOCIETY AT THAT MOMENT. HOW DO YOU THINK THE ROLE OF THE
ARCHITECT IS CHANGING BOTH FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND
SOMEONE OF EXTRAORDINARY SUCCESS LIKE YOURSELF. >> I THINK HE WAS ANTICIPATING
IN THE FUTURE IN TERM HIS OF HIS MANTRA OF THE IMPORTANCE
OF DOING MORE WITH LESS. AND RESOURCES BEING PRECIOUS. AND THE CLOSED CYCLE OF THE
PLANET WHERE ESSENTIALLY IF YOU WERE CREATING POLLUTION,
THAT POLLUTION WAS GOING TO STAY, UNLESS YOU RECYCLED IT
IN THE PURSUIT OF A HEALTHIER ENVIRONMENT. SO MANY OF HIS MANTRAS, HIS
TEACHINGS AND HIS EXTRAORDINARY INSIGHTFUL
OBSESSIONS ARE ARGUABLY MORE VALID TODAY THAN THEY WERE AT
ANOTHER TIME. AGAIN THE HISTORY OF CITIES IS
ONE OF CRISIS. AND CONSISTENTLY THE -- THE USE
OF TECHNOLOGY TO TRANSFORM THOSE CRISIS AND TURN
THEM TO SOCIAL AND TECHNICAL BENEFIT. I MEAN YOU CAN -- THE EXAMPLES
ARE COUNTLESS. IF YOU THINK OF THE DNA OF
LONDON AS WE KNOW IT WITH ITS GEORGIAN TERRACES IT'S PRICK
PARTING WALLS. THOSE WERE A RESULT OF THE
BUILDING CODES. THE MODERN SANITATION THE TEMS
EMBANKMENT, UNDERGROUND PUBLIC TRANSPORT, THAT WAS THE
MIDDLE OF THE 19TH CENTURY IN RESPONSE TO THE
CHOLERA EPIDEMIC. YOU CAN GO THROUGH EVEN THE
ROOTS OF MODERN ARCHITECTURE IN TERMS OF TUBA
COALOSIS. TERRACES RELATIONSHIP TO NATURE,
FRESH AIR. ALL OF THESE THINGS WOULD HAVE
HAPPENED ANYWAY. THEY WERE JUST MAGNIFIED,
AMPLIFIED AND HASTENED BY THE CRISIS OF THE TIME. AND I THINK THAT IN TERMS OF THE
PANDEMIC IN THE SHORT TERM, IT WAS SEEN THAT THE
PANDEMIC HAS CHANGED EVERYTHING. IN THE LONG ARC OF HISTORY I
SUGGEST THAT IT WILL BE THE ACCELERATION OF TRENDS THAT
WERE ALREADY APPARENT. PERHAPS THE ONE CHANGE IS PUBLIC
ATTITUDE OF MIND. AN ATTITUDE TO CHANGE. WE'VE SEEN ALMOST OVERNIGHT THE
CITIES CHANGE IN RESPONSE TO PATTERNS OF
MOBILITY. WE'VE SEEN PAVEMENT WIDENING. WE'VE SEEN MORE SPACE -- SEEN A
GREATER APPRECIATION OF THE CONCEPT OF NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT IS NOT NEW. I MEAN IT'S BEEN DUBBED THE 15
MINUTE CITY. THAT'S FANTASTIC WHERE YOU CAN
WALK FROM YOUR PLACE OF WORK TO STUDY TO DINE, TO SHOP. BUT REMEMBER THAT TRADITIONALLY
90% OF LONDONERS NOT SPECIAL TO LONDERS. 90% OF LONDONERS ARE WITHIN A 15
MINUTE WALK OF HIGH STREET. THERE'S A GREATER APPRECIATION
OF THAT. WHEN I COME TO THE ATTITUDE OF
MIND THAT COULD BE TRANSFORMED INTO A NEW APPROACH
ABOUT ZONING. BECAUSE INDUSTRY IS NOT THE
DIRTY ACTIVITY POLLUTING THAT IT WAS IN THE PAST. SOME ACTIVITIES STILL ARE. ALTHOUGH THOSE ARE UNDERGOING A
REVOLUTION. IF YOU LOOK AT THE ROUGE RIVER
PLANT OF FORD IN DETROIT AND THE WORK THAT MADONNA HAS
DONE ON THAT IN TERMS OF GREENING AND SUSTAINABILITY. SO EVEN THE POLLUTING INDUSTRIES
HAVE UNDERGONE A REVOLUTION. SO MUCH OF THAT IS CLEAN. AND PERHAPS ITS ALSO HASTENED
THE REALIZATION OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE DENSE CITY. AND THE BENEFITS CONSISTENTLY
INVOTING ABOUT THE MOST DESIRABLE CITIES TO LIVE IN
THEY'RE ALL DENSE WALKABLE CITIES. THEY DO NOT SPRAWL. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET INTO AN
AUTOMOBILE TO GO SHOPPING OR GO TO SCHOOL. YOU CAN WALK. THEY'RE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. THIS IS A CONVERSATION YOU AND I
HAVE HAD CONSTANTLY. NOT TO CONFUSE THAT WITH
OVERCROWDING AND THE INEQUALITY OF HOW'S HANDWRITING
WHICH FORCES TOO MANY PEOPLE TO BE SQUEEZED INTO SMALL
SPACES. THAT OVER CROWDING CAN HAPPEN
OUT IN THE SUBURBS. IT CAN ALSO HAPPEN IN THE MIDDLE
OF A DENSE CITY. IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEPARATE THOSE
ISSUES OUT. >> SO I KNOW YOU AND I COULD
TALK ABOUT THIS PART ALL DAY. WHAT I WANT TO FOCUS ON AND BE
ABLE -- YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE KNOW YOU SO WELL
FROM YOUR WORK AS AN ARCHITECT. THEY PROBABLY KNOW A BIT LESS
WELL OF YOUR WORK IN YOUR FOUNDATION WITH LADY ELAINA
FOSTER. I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC
YOU BROUGHT UP AS A SEGUE TO THAT. AND WE EVEN HAVE MAYORAL
CANDIDATES IN NEW YORK RUNNING ON THE 15 MINUTE CITY PLATFORM. THERE'S ONE SET OF CONVERSATION
AROUND COUNTRIES IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD. AS YOU THINKING ABOUT YOUR
FOUNDATION AND I KNOW YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CITIES
IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH WHICH ARE URBANIZING BUT
URBANIZING FOR VERY VERY DIFFERENT REASONS. I WANTED TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO TALK ABOUT WHY YOU AND ELAINA STARTED THE
FOUNDATION. HOW YOU CARRY ALL THESE LESSONS
YOU LEARNED WORKING AROUND THE WORLD INTO THE
FOUNDATION? >> THE FOUNDATION OWES
EVERYTHING REALLY TO ELAINA. AS YOU MENTIONED. IT WAS HER IDEA AT THE TIME THAT
I WAS AWARDED THE PRITS GER PRIZE AND THE PRIZE
MONEY THAT WENT WITH IT IN 1999 TO SET UP A FOUNDATION. THE FOUNDATION WITH ITS EMPHASIS
ON YOUNGER GENERATIONS. AND PERHAPS SOMETIMES I COMMENT
ABOUT ARCHITECTS AND ARCHITECTURE SAYING THAT AS AN
ARCHITECT YOU HAVE TO LOOK TO THE PAST WITH AN
AWARENESS OF THE NEEDS OF THE PRESENT. BUT TO ANTICIPATE A FUTURE WHICH
IS UNKNOWN. AND THAT COULD SUM UP THE
FOUNDATION. THE FOUNDATION IS ACTIVE. IT'S ABOUT THE PRESENT. IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE. IT'S CORE IS AN ARCHIVE WHICH
RELATES IN PART TO MY PART BUT NOT JUST MY PAST. IT'S THE ARCHIVE IS ABOUT A
CONTEMPORARY TAKE THROUGH CRITICS, WRITERS, THOSE WHO
COMMISSIONED BUILDINGS. AND IT HAS A NUMBER OF OFF
SHOOTS. AND PRIMARILY IT IS ABOUT
ANTICIPATING THE FUTURE FOR YOUNGER GENERATIONS TO BRING
THEM UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MENTORS ON A WIDE RANGING
SCALE ON ISSUES OF URBANITY OF THE CITY, OF CLIMATE
CHANGE, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND THROUGH WORK
SHOPS WHICH BRING 10 TOP GRADUATES FROM AROUND THE WORLD. WE HAVE AFFILIATIONS WITH 130
UNIVERSITIES AND INSTITUTIONS. TYPICALLY BRING 10 OF THOSE
TOGETHER WITH 10 MENTORS OVER A WEEK WITH PUBLIC LECTURES
TO REACH OUT TO THE WIDER COMMUNITY. IT HAS PROJECT DIVISIONS WHICH
HAVE WORKED WITH INFORMAL SETTLEMENTS. AND SO IT'S WIDE RANGING. IT'S BASED IN MADRID,
HEADQUARTERS IN MADRID. VERY MUCH WITHIN GLOBAL REACH. IT HAS THE AMERICAN FRIENDS OF
THE FOUNDATION WHICH IS REALLY VERY DYNAMIC, VERY
ENERGETIC. IT HAS A LONDON BASE. AWARDS TRAVELING SCHOLARSHIP
ENABLES STUDENTS TO BE FUNDED THROUGH UNIVERSITY. SO IT'S PERHAPS TRANSFERRING
SOMETHING OF THE BENEFITS ON A WIDER SCALE THAT I WAS
FORTUNATE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WHEN I WAS YOUNGER. >> WELL -- >> I GUESS ALSO THAT -- THAT
YAILI WAS AWARE THAT SOME OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL LECTURES
ON ARCHITECTURE AND ART AND DISSOLVING THE
BOUNDARIES BETWEEN DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES WHICH IS A MAIN STAY
OF THE FOUNDATION THAT YOUNG GRADUATES WHO WOULD BE
FUTURE LEADERS OF INDUSTRY AND POLITICAL LEADERS WOULD HAVE
THIS WIDER INFLUENCE BEYOND A SPECIALTY AT
UNIVERSITY. AND SO FOUNDATION IS HOPEFULLY
INFLUENCING THOSE YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO WILL BE CIVIC
LEADERS IN THE FUTURE ON ISSUES OF SUSTAINABILITY. >> I MEAN I CAN IMAGINE IT SO
INSPIRING YOUNG PEOPLE. IN THE SENSE THAT, NORMAN, YOUR
CAREER ARC AND YOUR LEGACY IS SO IN MY MIND
FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER FAMOUS ARCHITECT IN
THE WORLD. IN THE SENSE WE CAME UP THROUGH
THE 80S AND 90S AND WE SAW THE EMERGENCE OF THE
ARCHITECT IDEA. WHICH I THINK IS DIFFERENT THAN
WHAT YOU WERE TALKING WITH BUCKY FULLER AND MANY OF
THE OTHERS THAT YOU MENTIONED. THIS IDEA OF ARCHITECT AS
CELEBRITY. AND YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY RIGHT UP
THERE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST. YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF CREATING
THIS FOUNDATION AND SO MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU
TALKED ABOUT, I THINK FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED
IN ARCHITECTURE AS A SOCIAL ART AND NOT ONLY AS A
KIND OF PATH TO CELEBRITY WHICH I THINK IS THE MAJORITY OF
STUDENTS TODAY, CERTAINLY IN OUR SCHOOL BUT I
IMAGINE IN MOST. I CAN IMAGINE THAT BEING
INCREDIBLY INSPIRATION. HOW DO YOU -- THERE'S SOMETHING
DIFFERENT ABOUT IT THAT I'D LOVE YOU TO SPEAK ABOUT. >> THE PHILOSOPHY OF WORKING
WITH A COMMUNITY AN INFORMAL SETTLEMENT WHERE PART
OF THAT 14% OF HUMANITY ESTIMATED TO BE ONE IN 3 BY 2050
WHO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO MODERN SANITATION, CLEAN
WATER OR ELECTRICAL POWER, THAT TO TRANSFORM A COMMUNITY
LIKE THAT, MEANS ASKING A LOT OF QUESTIONS. IT MEANS BEING A GOOD LISTENER. AND IF I TAKE ONE COMMUNITY WITH
FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, THE -- ESSENTIALLY THERE WERE 3
GROUPS. AND ONE OF THOSE GROUPS WERE THE
FISHERMEN. THE OTHER GROUP WERE THE
BUSINESSMEN. AND THE OTHER GROUP WERE THE
WOMEN IN THE COMMUNITY. AND THEY EACH MADE SEPARATE BUT
COMPLIMENTARY CONTRIBUTIONS TO TRANSFORM THEIR
COMMUNITY. THIS IS PART OF A -- OF A BIGGER
PICTURE WHICH WE WOULD CALL CITIES WITHOUT. IT'S LONGER TERM QUESTIONS
FUNDAMENTALLY THE MODERN POWER AND SEWAGE GRID OF A CITY. AND IF YOU WANT VALIDATION OF
THAT JUST LOOK AT TEXAS IN THE WINTER OR CALIFORNIA IN
THE SUMMER WHERE THE AGING ANTIQUATED INFRASTRUCTURE,
IS HUGELY WASTEFUL. WE COULD COME TO WHICH IS ENERGY
WHICH IS POWER. BUT WORKING THESE COMMUNITIES,
THAT PHILOSOPHY, THAT APPROACH OF DRAWING OUT THEIR
NEEDS AND THEN USING ARCHITECTURAL MASTER PLANNING
SKILLS TO KNIT THIS TOGETHER, THIS IS VERY MUCH A
BOTTOM UP APPROACH. AND IT'S SAYING THAT REALLY
KNOWLEDGE IS THE BASIS FOR DESIGN. THAT'S WHY I'VE ALWAYS
CHAMPIONED THE IDEA. IT TOOK BIRTH IN YAIL. I WAS GIVEN THIS PROGRAM BY PAUL
RUDOLF ALONG WITH EVERYBODY ELSE TO THE TEXTBOOKS
TO FIND A TALL BUILDING. A TALL BUILDING YOU OPEN YOUR
TEXTBOOK. IT'S GOT A SOLID CENTRAL CORE IN
THE MIDDLE AND A PERIMETER SPACE AROUND THE EDGE. MY POINT WAS I WASN'T TRYING TO
BE CLEVER. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESIGN A
TALL BUILDING. I NEED AN ENGINEER TO WORK WITH. THIS WAS SACK LEDGE IN PAUL
RUDOLF'S WORLD. BASICALLY THE ARCHITECT WAS THE
KING AND YOU DID FARM OUT TO ENGINEERS. TO HIS CREDIT HE FOUND ME AN
ENGINEER. WE SAT TOGETHER. IT WAS A TRANSFORMATIONAL
EXPERIENCE. I HAD MORE KNOWLEDGE AS AN
ARCHITECT. THE COMBINATION OF THE 2 SKILLS. I DID A DESIGN WHICH HAD LATER
BEEN SUGGESTED BY A LATER DEAN OF YALE WAS THE BASIS
OF THE HONG KONG BANK QUESTIONED THE CENTRAL CORE. TO HAVE A DEALERS FLOOR WHICH
WAS NEVER ENVISIONED THE TIME IT WAS DESIGNED. IT WAS A BIG OPEN LOST SPACE
WHERE PEOPLE COULD CONVERSE AND EXCHANGE AND
COMMUNICATE. AND WHERE YOU HAD GREAT VIEWS,
THROUGH VIEWS. IT WAS A WIN/WIN ON EVERY SCORE. THE PHILOSOPHY I'M TRYING TO
DESCRIBE INCIDENTALLY IN THE EXPERIENCE OF THE PROVINCE
OF ODESIA DEMONSTRATED COMMUNITIES HAVE HOPE NOT
DESPAIR. IT WAS A POWERFUL SOCIAL
COMMUNITY THERE. THE PHILOSOPHY, THE APPROACH IS
THE SAME AS WHETHER IT WAS A STUDENT WITH A COMMUNITY
IN, YOU KNOW, IN INDIA OR WITH MIKE BLOOMBERG OR STEVE
JOBS. >> THAT'S FANTASTIC. I KEEP COMING BACK AND I KNOW
THERE WILL BE MANY PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO WILL BE
HAPPY WHEN THEY HERE THIS NOTION AS ARCHITECTURE AS
KNOWLEDGE. AS OPPOSED TO THIS IDEA WHERE
YOU WHIP SOMETHING UP AND ANOTHER HAD THE PROBLEM OF
TRYING TO BUILD IT. >> THIS APPROACH IS THE FIRST
FOR HOW THINGS WORK. WHETHER IT'S WHAT MAKES AN
ORGANIZATION TICK. OR IT'S HOW SOMETHING IS MADE. AND THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW,
YOU PENETRATE THE FACTORY FLOOR. YOU ENGAGE WITH THOSE PEOPLE WHO
HEAR MAKING. THERE IS A NOBILITY IN THE
MAKING OF SOMETHING. THAT IS ALSO MONEY FIRST IN
EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS. IT IS A NORTHERN EUROPEAN
TRADITION OF APPRENTICESHIP WHERE THERE IS EQUAL STATUS IN
BEING ABLE TO CRAFT SOMETHING FROM STEAL OR TIMBER
OR FABRIC. AS THERE IS IN GOING TO
UNIVERSITY. YOU KNOW, IN SOME SOCIETIES THAT
HAS A SOCIAL STANDING. AND THAT IS REFLECTED IN SO MANY
DIFFERENT WAYS THROUGH THAT SOCIETY. SO THE CONTACT WITH THE MAKING
OF THINGS BEING ON THE BUILDING SIDE, HAVING THE MUDDY
BOOTS, PENETRATING THE FACTORY WHERE THOSE COMPONENTS
ARE BEING MADE. AND I'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT I'VE
NEVER VISITED A FACTORY AND NOT LEARNED SOMETHING. AND THAT'S TRUE OF -- OF
INDIVIDUALS -- I REMEMBER OTOL IKER AN EXTRAORDINARY GRAPHIC
DESIGNER PHILOSOPHER. WE COLLABORATED ON PROJECTS LIKE
THE BILL BOWER METRO. I TRIED WITHOUT SUCCESS TO HAVE
HIM ON THE HONG KONG BANK. AND I ALWAYS SAID TO COLLEAGUES
ON THE WAY, YOU KNOW, I GUARANTEE THAT WHEN YOU LEAVE
YOU WILL HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING. THEY KIND OF LOOK AT ME AS IF I
WAS A BIT CRAZY. BUT ON THE WAY BACK THEY WOULD
SAY YOU'RE SO RIGHT. I NEVER -- AND THAT'S TRUE OF
EXPOSURE TO THE WORLD OF MANUFACTURING. I'VE -- EVERY TIME I'VE VISITED
A WORK PLACE WHERE SOMETHING IS BEING MADE I'VE
LEFT WISER. >> YEAH, AND I THINK OF YOU --
WE HAVE THIS TERM AT BERKELEY ABOUT BECOMING A LIFE
LONG LEARNER. I THINK OF YOU AS A LIFE LONG
LEARNER. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES
LEFT. I WANTED TO CLOSE WITH A
QUESTION ABOUT YOUR LEGACY AS A CULTURAL LEADER. YOU'VE DESIGNED SOME OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT STRUCTURES OF THE WORLD. YOU HAVE A FOUNDATION. YOU HAVE AN EXTRAORDINARILY
STRONG FAMILY. AND IS THE IDEA OF A LEGACY FOR
CULTURAL LEADER IMPORTANT. AND IF IT IS IS, WHY? WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR YOU IN
TERMS OF HAVING A LEGACY AS A LEADER OF CULTURE AND
SUSTAINABILITY IN THE ARTS? >> THE FOUNDATION HAS BENEFITED
FROM CEMETERY FROM OTHER INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND THAT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE. SO IF ITS FUTURE IS ABOUT FUTURE
GENERATIONS THEN THAT I THINK WHAT MORE COULD I WANT? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, NORMAN, I
DON'T KNOW WHAT MORE ANY OF US COULD WANT. I THINK WE COULD GO ON FOR MORE
TIME FOR SURE. I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR
SPENDING THIS TIME WITH US. ON BEHALF OF THE BERKELEY
COMMUNITY I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'RE HONORED. >> GREAT PLEASURE, THANK YOU. >> HI EVERYONE. THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN. I KNOW -- I FELT THAT WAS JUST
AN EXTRAORDINARY CONVERSATION. I HOPE YOU SHARE THAT VIEW. I AM NOW GOING TO INVITE JOHN
KING THE ARCHITECTURE AND URBAN DESIGN CRITIC OF THE SAN
FRANCISCO CHRONICLE TO JOIN ME IN THE CONVERSATION. JOHN IF YOU'RE OUT THERE. >> I'M OUT HERE. I'M BEING TOLD I CANNOT START MY
VIDEO BECAUSE THE HOST HAS STOPPED IT. HERE WE GO. >> SOMEONE MUST HAVE NOT LIKED A
REVIEW. >> THERE YOU ARE.
HOW ARE YOU? >> FINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
ALLOWING ME TO TAKE PART IN THIS. IT'S SO FASCINATING AND CLEARLY
THE 2 OF YOU HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR A LONG TIME. I THINK MY QUESTION TO GET
STARTED, HOW ON EARTH DID YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DISCUSS WITH
NORMAN FOSTER GIVEN AN HOUR AND GIVEN HIS CAREER AND
LEGACY AND HIS RANGE OF THOUGHTS? >> AND YOU COULD TELL, JOHN, AND
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, YOU COULD TELL WE COULD GO
ON FOR 10 HOURS ABOUT ANY ONE TOPIC. YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN WITH NORMAN
AT DINNERS, WHEN I KNOW WHAT KIND OF DAYS HE'S HAD. I'VE BEEN IN MEETINGS WITH HIM
THROUGH THE COURSE OF THE DAY. AT THE END OF THE DAY HE'S ON
HIS 15TH, 16TH HOUR. HE'S NOT A YOUNG MAN. HE'S IN BETTER SHAPE THAN MOST
OF US FOR SURE. HE HAS A WAY OF YOU CAN TELL OF
ALWAYS ACCUMULATING KNOWLEDGE. IN APPROACHING THE INTERVIEW I
WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE COVERED HIS ORIGIN STORY AND HIS
LIFE. GOT SOME IN ABOUT WHAT HIS
FAVORITE BUILDINGS ARE. HE'S GOT SUCH AN ENORMOUS
PRACTICE. I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND MORE
ABOUT WHAT HE TREASURED IN HIS PRACTICE. AND THEN THIS FOUNDATION. NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT. I'M PRIVILEGED TO SERVE AS A
TRUSTEE ON THE FOUNDATION. I THINK IT'S DOING EXTRAORDINARY
WORK. THE LAST THING I WANTED TO SAY
ABOUT THE QUESTION WAS, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THIS JOURNALIST
WHO GOT HIMSELF IN A LOT OF TROUBLE NAMED CHARLIE
ROSE WHO USED INTERVIEW AMONG OTHER PEOPLE FAMOUS
ARCHITECTS AND I'M NOT SURE WHO IS DOING THAT OUT IN THE
WORLD TODAY. I'M NOT VOLUNTEERING FOR THE
ROLE. MAYBE YOU CAN TAKE IT UP. I FEEL THERE'S NOT A LOT OF
PEOPLE TALKING TO PEOPLE IN OUR PROFESSION ABOUT WHAT DRIVES
THEM AND ESPECIALLY AT A PERSONAL LEVEL. I WAS HOPING TO EVOKE FROM
NORMAN SOME OF HIS PERSONAL THOUGHTS ABOUT WHY HE DOES WHAT
HE DOES. WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT THE FUTURE
OF THE WORLD. HOPEFULLY SOME OF THAT CAME
ACROSS AS WELL. >> ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME AND
IT'S SUCH A HEARTENING AND INTRIGUING MESSAGE IN THE
WORLD WE'RE LIVING IN AT THE MEETING IS THE PERSISTENCE
OF HIS OPTIMISM. HE TALKED ABOUT JUST ESSENTIALLY
HOW HE WAS SO DRAWN TO THE FUTURE. AND THE FUTURE LOST ITS
BRIGHTNESS AND APPEAL. BUT NOT TO HIM. YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW BLEAK THE
VISION OF THE FUTURE HAS BECOME. IS THAT HIS NATURE DO YOU THINK? >> I MEAN, YES. I THINK HE'S AN EXTRAORDINARY
REALISTIC PRAGMATIC MAN AT ONE LEVEL. IT'S AMAZING HOW HE SYNTHESIZING
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT PROBLEMS. YOU KNOW, HE TOLD ME STORIES
ABOUT BEIJING AIRPORT AND WHAT IT TOOK TO GET THAT
BUILDING BUILT. BUT I DO THINK -- TO ME ONE OF
THE INTERESTING ASPECTS OF THE CONVERSATION WAS WHEN HE
TALKED ABOUT BURKY FULLER AND CHERMYOV. FOR HIM IT HELPED TO BALANCE
ACTION AND ANALYSIS. I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS
YOU HEAR IN THAT IS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT -- THERE
ARE A LOT OF ISSUES PARTICULARLY ABOUT
SUSTAINABILITY AND CLIMATE CHANGE THAT WERE DAUNTING
DECADES AGO AND REMAIN DAUNTING TODAY. HE'S BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE
TOUGHEST CHALLENGES IN OUR TIMES. HOUSING INEQUITY,
INFRASTRUCTURE, FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. I THINK WE HAVE A TENDENCY
SOMETIMES IN SOCIETY TO BELIEVE THAT THE THING THAT
WE'RE CONFRONTING IN THE HERE AND NOW. YOU HEAR WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT
PANDEMICS PAST OR CHOLERA. THE THINGS WE'RE DEALING WITH
NOW ARE CHALLENGES NO ONE'S HAD TO DEAL WITH BEFORE. I THINK HIS OPTIMISM COMES WITH
THE WEAVING OF THAT KNOWLEDGE OF THE PAST AND
RESPECT FOR THE PAST. >> I LOVE THE COMMENT HE MADE
THE HISTORY OF CITIES IS ONE OF CRISIS. AND IN THE LONG ARC OF HISTORY
THE ACCELERATION OF TRENDS THAT WERE ALREADY APPARENT IS
WHAT COMES OUT OF A CRISIS. NOT THAT SOMETHING IS INVENTED. BUT SOMETHING HAS INNOVATIVE HAS
BEEN THE SEEDS HAVE BEEN PLANTED. WE CAN SEE THIS IN THE BAY AREA
WITH SOMETHING THAT PARKLETS THAT WERE THIS KIND OF
-- YOU KNOW REVOLUTIONARY GORILLA URBANISM,
AIMED AT PARKING SPACES BY UC BERKELEY CED GRADUATES
BACKGROUND 2005 AND 2006. IN THE RECESSION OF 2008 THEY
CAUGHT ON. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE
THIS THING THAT CAN BE EMPLOYED BY THE THOUSANDS IN
CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. THEN YOU HAVE A NEW FORM OF
MICRO URBAN SPACE. IT SEEMS TO SPEAK TO HIS
EXPERIENCES. >> YEAH, I THINK HE'S TRYING TO
TALK TO US ABOUT THIS IDEA LIKE THESE CRISES THAT WE
EXPERIENCE ARE ACCELERANTS FOR CERTAIN TRENDS. I NEVER MADE A ZOOM CALL IN MY
LIFE BEFORE THIS PANDEMIC AND SUDDENLY WE'RE ALL
ZOOMING NOW. IT'S CLEAR THAT THAT'S ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT HE'S LEARNED FROM HIS RESPECT OF THE
PAST AND TIME WITH BUCKY AND SO FORTH. THESE THINGS HAVE A TRAJECTORY. WHAT I THINK IS INTERESTING IS
HOW HE TRIES TO WEAVE THAT INTO HIS UNDERSTANDING OF
ARCHITECTURE. AND I SEE THAT MORE AND MORE. PARTICULARLY AS HIS WORK KIND OF
RIPENS AND I GO BACK AND SEE WORK THAT I SAW WHEN
MAYBE I WAS A YOUNG ARCHITECT BUT NOW SEE THROUGH
DIFFERENT EYES. THAT THERE IS -- WE DON'T THINK
OF LIE MODERN WORK THIS WAY. THERE IS AN EXTRAORDINARY
RESPECT FOR THE PAST THAT I FIND IN A LOT OF THE WORK. THE VIA DUCT IN FRANCE IS SO
GOTHIC. IT'S LIKE -- THERE ARE THESE
THINGS THAT YOU UNDERSTAND HE'S CARRYING HIS TRACKECTRIES
BECAUSE HE'S BUILDING KNOWLEDGE AS HE WORKS. AND SO HE'S DRAWING ON THAT
KNOWLEDGE FROM THE PAST. >> THAT'S ONE THING THAT STRUCK
ME GOING THROUGH THE FULL CAREER OF NORMAN FOSTER AND
PARTNERS, FOSTER AND PARTNERS, IS TO SEE TOUCHES AND
STYLES PLAY OUT DECADE AFTER DECADE. NOT THAT HE'S JUST GOT HIS IDEA
AND HE'S TROTTING IT OUT. BUT SIMPLE THINGS LIKE A CURVED
GLASS WALL, YOU SEE HIM KIND OF FUSSING ARNOLD WITH THE
IDEA IN THE 70S AND IT PLAYS OUT IN ONE WAY IN CLARK
CENTER AT STANFORD. I THINK THAT'S THE NAME OF IT. AND IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
WAY IN THE APPLE CAMPUS AT CUPERTINO. IT IS THAT ARC STRETCHING ACROSS
A CAREER OF A MAN IN HIS 80S. >> MY FATHER WAS A RESEARCH
SCIENTIST. NORMAN REMINDS ME OF THAT
SENSIBILITY AND DRIVE. IF YOU GO TO THE OFFICE IN
LONDON, IT DOES FEEL LIKE THE BAT CAVE. ITS FILLED WITH LIGHT. IT HAS THAT MAD SCIENTIST
SENSIBILITY. THERE'S SHOTS IN THE VIDEO
THERE'S EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF SPACE GIVEN OVER TO RESEARCH
IN TERMS OF MATERIAL SCIENCE AND DIFFERENT KINDS OF
GLASS. AND HE REALLY IS ROOTED IN THAT
TRADITION THAT I THINK IS -- IS KIND OF EVEN WEIRDLY
MORE RADICAL TODAY GIVEN THE INSTAGRAM NATURE OF OUR
CULTURE AND ARCHITECTURE WHICH TENDS TO NOT CARE SO MUCH
OF HOW THINGS ARE BUILT. IT'S BUILT WITH A CYNICISM OF
HOW SOMEONE'S GOING TO VISIT IT RATHER THAN LOOKING AT
IT ON A SCREEN. >> HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO PULL
THIS TOGETHER TO GET HIM TO TAKE AN HOUR OF HIS TIME IN HIS
OFFICE IN LONDON OR WHEREVER? >> I SIMPLY ASKED HIM. WE HAD TO PRETAPE IT. BECAUSE HE'S IN SWITZERLAND
RIGHT NOW. THAT'S WHERE HE AND ELAINA AND
THEIR FAMILY ARE HOUSED DURING THE PANDEMIC. THE TIMING WOULD ONLY WORK IF WE
PRETAPED IT. I'VE BEEN VERY PRIVILEGED. I'VE KNOWN NORMAN FROM MY TIME
WORKING FOR THE CITY OF NEW YORK AFTER 9/11. I SENT HIM A NOTE SHEEPISHLY
THAT I THINK HE MET BUCKY AT THE SAME AGE THAT I MET HIM. WHEN I WAS AT THE CITY AND JUST
HE -- YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING
ABOUT SOMEONE LIKE HIM, I THINK HE'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT
PEOPLE MIGHT ASSUME HIM TO BE. AGAIN THERE'S THAT ARCHITECT
THING OF LIKE THEY ASSUME SOMEONE TO BE TERRIBLY ARROGANT
AND VERY VERY KIND OF EFFICIENCY AND IMPERIOUS. I FOUND HIM ALWAYS TO BE
INCREDIBLY KIND OF APPROACHABLE AND DOWN TO EARTH
AND GIVING OF HIS TIME WHICH IS WHY HE'S SO INCREDIBLY
BUSY ALL THE TIME. IT ACTUALLY DIDN'T TAKE A LOT TO
GET HIM TO DO THIS. >> IT'S INTERESTING FOSTERS AND
PARTNERS IS A HUGE DESIGN FIRM AT THIS POINT. IF A STUDENT WAS TO GO DOWN TO
AN APPLE STORE IN SAN FRANCISCO UNION SQUARE. WHAT DO WE SEE OF HIM? THE DESIGN ETHOS HANDED DOWN TO
YOUNGER PARTNERS. A CERTAIN SET OF LESSONS THEY
WANT TO BRING FORWARD USING APPLE AS A VEHICLE? >> IT'S INTERESTING. NORMAN HAS DONE SOMETHING THAT I
DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER ARCHITECT HAS DONE. HE'S SPOKEN ABOUT IN THE SAME
BREATH AS, YOU KNOW, RENZO PIANO, HIZA ADID OR ANY
OTHER PEOPLE YOU MIGHT THINK OF. HIS OFFICE IS THE SIZE EASILY OF
AN SOM, ONE OF THOSE ENORMOUS INTERNATIONAL FIRMS. THE OTHERS AREN'T BY AND LARGE. AND WHAT I THINK IS INTERESTING
IS AT THIS POINT AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR NORMAN
IN ANY WAY. I FEEL THERE'S FOSTER AND
PARTNERS AND THERE'S NORMAN. PROJECTS IN WHICH HE GETS MORE
DIRECTLY ENGAGED. AND I, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE I
HAVE SOME SENSE OF THE ONES IN WHICH HE'S MORE DIRECTLY
ENGAGED, YOU CAN KIND OF SENSE HIS HAND AND HIS VISION
I THINK A BIT MORE. MAYBE THAT'S UNFAIR. WHAT IS INTERESTING AS A
PRACTICE MODEL -- YOU KNOW MY WIFE FOR YEARS WORKED FOR
ANOTHER PERSON WHO GOT HIMSELF IN TROUBLE RICHARD MYER. THERE'S A LONG LIST. NORMAN'S NOT ONE'VE THEM. THERE THERE IS SUCH A SYSTEM. AND SO FOR ARCHITECTS WORKING
FOR RICHARD, THERE IS A SYSTEM IN TERMS OF HOW THOSE
BUILDINGS ARE DESIGNED. RICHARD KEEPS AN OVERSIGHT OF
THAT SYSTEM. I THINK NORMAN'S PRACTICE
OPERATING IN A MORE BROADER TERRITORY THAN THAT. THERE'S A SET OF GUIDING
PRINCIPLES, PARTICULARLY AROUND TECHNOLOGY I THINK AND
SUSTAINABILITY. THE WORK IS MORE DIVERGENT FROM
ONE ANOTHER THAN AN OFFICE LIKE MYERS TO BE QUITE
CLEARLY. AND THAT IS PART OF WHAT MAKES
IT INTERESTING. AND IT'S KIND OF -- TO ME IT'S
INTERESTING HE WAS QUITE A YOUNG MAN WHEN SANESBURY AND
HSBC AND SOME OF THE EARLY FAMOUS WORK HAPPENED. AND HE NEVER -- IT'S REALLY
INTERESTING TO ME THAT ETHOS THAT HE INSTILLED IN HIS
PEOPLE AND SO FORTH GOES ALL THROUGH THE 80S, ALL THROUGH
THE 90S. NEVER SUCCUMBS TO POST
MODERNISM. I CAN'T THINK OF ONE FOSTER
BUILDING THAT YOU THINK OF THAT YOU WOULD QUALIFY AS A POST
MODERNIST BUILDING. IT JUST SPANNED THAT ENTIRE ARC
WITHOUT SUCCUMBING TO TREND OR FASHION. AND JUST KIND OF STICKING TO THE
CORE ETHOS THAT YOU HEARD IS GROUNDED IN BUCKY AND
IN CHERMYOV. THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY TO ME. THERE ARE VERY FEW
ARCHITECTS THAT CAN SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT. >> IT'S INTERESTING THE VIEW --
THE BRIGHT VIEW OF FUTURISM IS SOMETHING THAT YOU
SEE HIM HONING OR HE AND FOSTER AND PARTNERS HONING AGAIN
AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. I'VE NEVER BEEN IN THE APPLE
CAMPUS. BECAUSE APPLE DOESN'T WANT
ANYONE IN THE APPLE CAMPUS. I WENT DOWN TO THE VISITOR
CENTER AND DID A PIECE ON IT WHEN IT OPENED. THERE WERE 2-- I BELIEVE 2
RESEARCH BUILDINGS THAT ARE AT THE END OF THE CAMPUS. THEY'RE NOT THE SPACESHIP OR THE
DONUT OR WHATEVER, 2 ON THE EDGE OF THE CAMPUS NEAR
THE VISITOR CENTER THAT ARE ALMOST THE PURE DISTILLATION
OF CLEAN EARLY '70S MODERNISM. EVERY INCH OF THEM ARE JOYS TO
LOOK AT. AND APPRECIATE WHAT A GOOD WORK
SPACE IT MUST BE. YOU CAN FEEL THIS NOT WE'RE
GOING TO DO THE BUILDING WE DID IN DOLEWICH IN 1974 BUT THIS
BUILT BODY OF KNOWLEDGE THAT CAN BE DRAWN ON
INFINITELY. >> I MEAN. YOU KNOW THE REALITY IS YOU'RE
SHARP ENOUGH TO KNOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT BUILDING
IT IS DIFFICULT TO DO. THE SIMPLEST THINGS ARE THE MOST
DIFFICULT. AND SO DIFFERENT FROM THE BANAL
GLASS BOX THAT PEOPLE ASSOCIATE WITH THAT WORK. >> YES.
I'M CURIOUS. ONE THING I THINK ABOUT THIS
OPTIMISM HE HAS BEEN VERY COMFORTABLE WORKING WITH CLIENTS
THAT YOU CAN SAY ARE HIS PEERS. THE BIG GUY MAKING THE BIG
INNOVATION, MIKE PEL BLOOMBERG, STEVE JOBS, WHATEVER. HOW DO YOU FEEL THAT PLAYS OUT
IN TODAY'S SOCIETY WITH THE NOTION OF MUCH MORE OF A
COMMUNITY PROCESS. IS THAT A MODEL FOR OTHER
ARCHITECTS TO FOLLOW COMING UP. >> THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING
QUESTION, JOHN. WITHOUT QUESTION NORMAN SHARES A
POSITIVIST WORLD VIEW OF THE GENERATION HE'S FROM AND
SHARES THAT WITH SOMEONE LIKE A MIKE BLOOMBERG
AND STEVE JOBS. STEVE JOBS WAS A BIT YOUNGER. AND SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT
CRITICIZE THAT TODAY. AND MAYBE IT'S NOT THE WORLD WE
LIVE IN TODAY. THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD REASONS
WHY ONE WOULD NOT HAVE SUCH A POSITIVIST OUTLOOK. LAST SEMESTER WE DID THE SAME
ARTS AND DESIGN CONVERSATION WITH DARREN WALKER
AND WAS ON 60 MINUTES ON SUNDAY TALKING ABOUT WHITE
PRIVILEGE. IT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT
CONVERSATION. HE TOO IS A GREAT CULTURAL
LEADER. AND YET -- AND SO YES, NORMAN IS
PART OF ALL OF THAT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME I THINK OF
HIM AS SUCH A MAN OF TODAY. AND YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS
I HAVE TO SAY JUST AT A PERSONAL LEVEL IS I'VE
EXPERIENCED FAR LESS RACISM FROM NORMAN THAN I HAVE FROM A LOT OF
OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS FIELD WHO, YOU KNOW, ESPOUSE ALL
OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SAY ABOUT
COMMUNITY AND SO FORTH. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES
ONE OF THE TRAPS OF OUR ERA IS THAT PEOPLE ARE MORE
CONSUMED ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE SAY AND A KIND OF VIRTUE
SIGNALING THAN WHO THEY ARE. AND I THINK WHERE NORMAN IS
REALLY PROVING THAT NOW AT THIS MOMENT IN HIS LIFE WHEN
RATHER THAN JUST CHASING THE NEXT BIG COMMISSION, HE'S
DEDICATING ALL THIS TIME TO THE FOUNDATION. THE VIDEOS YOU SAW WERE VERY
VERY REAL. THE WORK HE'S DOING IN
COMMUNITIES IT'S SIGNIFICANT. AND SO I THINK YOU CAN'T ALWAYS
JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER. AND I THINK WE NEED A BIT MORE
LATITUDE IN HOW WE THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS IN OUR
SOCIETY RIGHT NOW. >> ANOTHER THING I LIKE AND I
WANT TO BE SURE TO CATCH THIS BEFORE WE MOVE ON. WAS HE MADE THE COMMENT ABOUT
HOW KNOWLEDGE IS THE BASIS OF DESIGN WHICH I THOUGHT
WAS GREAT. BUT ALSO THERE IS A NOBILITY IN
THE MAKING OF SOMETHING WHICH IS THE ANTITHESIS OF ALL I
WANT IS THE COOL RENDERING THAT WILL LOOK GOOD
WHEN IT'S PUT ON DAZINE ON THE INTERNET. IS THAT HIS WORKING CLASS
BACKGROUND COMING OUT? THE IDEA THERE IS A NOBILITY IN
CRAFT AS WELL AS THE CONCEPT. >> I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO ARM
CHAIR THERAPY OF WHERE EXACTLY IT COMES FROM. ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS IT'S
EXTRAORDINARILY REAL. I'VE BEEN TO MOCK UPS WITH HIM. HE WILL, YOU KNOW, BLOW HIS
SCHEDULE BECAUSE HE'S VERY FOCUSSED ON A SET OF DETAILS AND
NEEDS TO DISCUSS IT. I THINK HE REALLY DOES BELIEVE
IN CRAFT. THAT'S VERY CLEAR IN THE WORK. YOU KNOW, AND IT'S INTERESTING
HE CARRIES THAT THROUGH TO THE ART. IF YOU LOOKED AT THE ART WORK
THAT WAS IN THE FOUNDATION, THE BOTCHIONY THERE
IS THIS CONSISTENCY OF HOW ONE MAKES. AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK
IS GETTING MUCH RARER IN THE WORLD TODAY. IN THE SENSE THAT A LOT OF OUR
DESIGN STUDENTS ARE SO INTENSELY POLITICAL FOR VERY
GOOD REASON. THERE'S A WORLD TO GO OUT AND
CHANGE. AT THE SAME TIME THE PRACTICE OF
ARCHITECTURE DOES REQUIRE A CERTAIN FOCUS ON HOW
THINGS ARE BUILT WHICH IS ALSO AN EQUITY ISSUE IN TERMS
OF THE RESPECT FOR THE CRAFT PERSON THAT HE SO CLEARLY
INDICATES. >> RIGHT ISN'T A POL EMIC AND
IT'S NOT A STATEMENT OF CULTURE OR SOMETHING. AND ULTIMATELY IT HAS TO STAND
THE TEST OF TIME AS I BUILT WORK OF CRAFT. >> SO WE DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS
IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THOSE. AND WE CAN GO BACK AND FORTH. SOMEONE ASKS WHAT WAS THE MOST
CHALLENGING PART OF DEVELOPING THIS DIALOGUE? WHAT WAS THE MOST SURPRISING
THING THAT CAME UP FOR YOU IN THE CONVERSATION? YOU KNOW I THINK WE'VE ALREADY
TOUCHED ON SOME OF THIS. TO ME IT WASN'T VERY
CHALLENGING. IT FELT VERY NATURAL WHICH WAS
GREAT. IT WASN'T SURPRISING. IT WAS REAFFIRMING FOR ME IT'S
THE THING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AS ARCHITECTURE AS
KNOWLEDGE. JOHN, I MIGHT ASK YOU A QUESTION
RELATED TO THIS. WHAT ROLE DOES ARCHITECTURE
CRITICISM PLAY IN THAT IDEA. BECAUSE SOMETIMES WITH CLIENTS,
I CAN FEEL THAT LIKE PEOPLE ARE CONSUMED WITH
GIMMICKRY AT A CERTAIN LEVEL AS OPPOSED TO THE KNOWLEDGE THAT
DRIVES SOMETHING. I'VE LITERALLY BEEN IN ROOMS IN
COMPETITION PRESENTATION WHERE A CLIENT SAYS
WOW I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE. MY STUDIO DIRECTOR WILL LEAN
NEXT TO ME AND SAY THAT'S BECAUSE IT UPON CAN'T BE BUILT. RIGHT. AND WHAT ROLE DOES THE WAY IN
WHICH ARCHITECTURE IS MEDIATED PLAYING IN THAT
DIALOGUE IN YOUR MIND. >> INTERESTING QUESTION. BECAUSE THINGS ARE SO IN FLUX
RIGHT NOW. THAT, YOU KNOW, AS YOU WERE
TALKING ABOUT FOSTER LIVED THROUGH ALL THESE DIFFERENT
DESIGN TRENDS. RIGHT NOW THERE IS SUCH A SET,
WHO DOES THE BUILDING SERVE. AND DENSITY WHICH YOU'VE WRITTEN
ABOUT. THERE'S DEFINITELY THE WHOLE
ARGUMENT PLAYING OUT THAT ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NEED FOR
HOUSING. AND HOUSING IS A UNIT COUNT. AND IF YOU SAY BUT THE BUILDING
HAS TO BE GOOD OR IT'S GOING TO UNDERCUT FUTURE SUPPORT
FOR MORE HOUSING. IT'S WELL YOU'RE JUST ANOTHER
NIMBY. SO IT'S INTERESTING THIS IDEA OF
ARCHITECTURAL CRITICISM AS AN ART FORM,
CRITICIZING AN ART HAS NEVER BEEN RELEVANT AND CERTAINLY NOT
WRITING FOR A GENERAL PUBLIC. BUT IT'S INTERESTING RIGHT NOW
THAT EVERYTHING IS SO VIEWED THROUGH SO MANY DIFFERENT
LENSES. THAT THE IDEA THAT WE'VE GOT TO
STAND FOR BUILDINGS THAT WILL ADD GOOD LAYERS TO THE
PLACE WE LIVE IN, IT'S ALMOST THAT BROADER MESSAGE THAT
BECOMES THE ROLE OF A CRITIC WHO'S WRITING FOR PEOPLE
WHO ARE NOT STUDENTS OF THE COLLEGE OF ENVIRONMENTAL
DESIGN. >> YEAH. >> IT GETS VERY TRICKY. >> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW INGUS
AFRON'S PIECE YOUR COUNTER PART AND SHE WROTE ABOUT
NIMBY'S AND YIMBY'S. SHE RECEIVED A HAIL STORM OF
CRITICISM. >> SHE GOT SAVAGED. >> IT'S AMAZING TO ME THIS IS
ALL ABOUT WIDGETS. AND LIKE -- SOMETIMES I THINK
IT'S AN INTENSELY AMERICAN THING THIS NOTION
THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT THROUGH THE DATA. >> UH-HUH. >> HOW MANY UNITS WERE PRODUCED
OR NOT PRODUCED AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT
THINGS QUALITATIVELY. >> IT BECOMES VERY SYMBOLIC. YOU GET A THING THAT WAS HOW
MANY WAS PRODUCED. IF THEY'RE MARKET BASED
ACCOUNTING THAT'S A WORLD THAT LEADS TO GENTRIFICATION. I DID A PIECE THAT RAN OVER THE
WEEKEND ON THE CALIFORNIA COLLEGE OF THE ARTS
DID A REALLY NICE DORM DOWN IN ROCKRIDGE CAMPUS IN LIKE
20003. AND THE COLLEGE HAS NOW MOVED TO
SAN FRANCISCO. IT'S WORKING WITH A DEVELOPER
WHO WANTS TO REDEVELOP THE CAMPUS. THE DORM ITSELF WAS SOLD TO THE
CITY OF OAKLAND AND IT NOW HOLDS AN EMERGENCY FAMILY
SHELTER AND IT WILL HOLD APARTMENTS FOR FORMERLY HOMELESS
OLDER PEOPLE. AND IT'S A REMINDER THAT
BUILDINGS OUTLIVE THE USE FOR WHICH THEY'RE INTENDED. AND THEY LIVE DIFFERENT LIVES. NORMAN TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE
INTERVIEW WITH INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS THAT BECOME
HOUSING THINGS LIKE THAT. IT'S SUCH A CHALLENGE WE FACE. THIS WASN'T THE WHOLE CHANGE OF
THE BUILDING. WHAT HE DID WITH THE MUSEUM IN
WASHINGTON D.C. DRAPING THE GLASS ROOF OVER IT. OVER THE A TREEUM IN THE MIDDLE. I THINK THE NATIONAL MUSEUM OF
PORTRAITS IN 2 PIECES. >> VERY SIMILAR TO THE BRITISH
MUSEUM. >> SOMETHING LIKE THAT CAN TOUCH
A SPARK IN PEOPLE THAT IS SEPARATE FROM ANYTHING THAT
THOSE DO WITH POL EMICS OR POLITICS OR CULTURAL
MEANINGS. PART OF IT THERE IS A ROLE IN
ARCHITECTURE IN TEACHING US ABOUT HOW WE LIVE AND THE
SCALE AT WHICH WE LIVE. AND THE KIND OF VALUES OF THE
BUILT TERRAIN. IT GETS REAL TRICKY. >> THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD
DISCUSSION TO KIND OF WRAP ON WHICH IS A QUESTION THAT CAME IN
HOW DID FOSTER'S WORK CHANGE ARCHITECTURE AND DESIGN
ARNOLD THE WORLD. AND WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE
INFLUENCE IN THE BAY AREA? >> WHAT'S YOUR SENSE ON THAT? YOU TALK ABOUT HOW HE STOOD
OUTSIDE HIS STYLE. IS IT MORE THE MESSAGES IN THE
BUILDING OR THE CRAFT OF THE BUILDING? >> TO ME, I MEAN -- I'LL TELL
YOU WHAT. SPLIT THE QUESTION IN 2. I'LL TRY TO TACKLE THE INFLUENCE
IN THE WORLD. YOU CAN TRY TO TACKLE THE
INFLUENCE IN THE BAY AREA. THAT ONE HAS ME STUMPED. I'LL SPEAK ON A PERSONAL LEVEL. NORMAN WAS A HERO OF MINE WHEN I
WAS STUDENT I WAS THRILLED TO MEET HIM WHEN I
FINALLY DID. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DREW ME
TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL DESIGN IN THE 90S WHEN
I WAS A STUDENT. THERE WERE PEOPLE -- LOTS OF
DIFFERENT OPINIONS THAT'S FOR SURE. SOMETHING COMMONLY HELD AMONG
THE FACULTY IS THE IDEA THAT ARCHITECTURE IS KNOWLEDGE. IT WASN'T THIS THING YOU WHIPPED
UP SOMETHING IN YOUR SLEEP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT
AND SOMEONE HAD TO GO BUILD IT. I THINK THAT WAS A COMMON THREAD
THAT HELD A LOT OF OUR TEACHING AND PEDAGOGY. I THINK OF HAVING A TEACHER LIKE
STANLEY STALOWITS. HE WOULD ABSOLUTELY DOUBLE DOWN
ON THE IDEA THAT ARCHITECTURE IS KNOWLEDGE. OR DONBLE LINDEN. EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD VERY
DIFFERENT PRACTICES IN THEIR LIVES. THAT TO ME IS NOT ONLY A LEGACY
THAT'S SPREAD ARNOLD THE WORLD. IT'S TO ME THE FIGHT. IF ARCHITECTURE IS GOING TO
REMAIN RELEVANT IN THE WORLD WE HAVE TO TAKE ON THESE
BROADER CHALLENGE HIS. HE TALKED ABOUT THIS WITH THE
FOUNDATION. THE NEED FOR ARCHITECTS TO BE
CONVERSANT IN CLIMATE CHANGE, IN ENERGY POLICY, IN
RACIAL POLICY, IN INFRASTRUCTURE, THAT KNOWLEDGE
THREADS THROUGH WHAT WE DO AND THAT'S HOW WE ACTUALLY
STAY A SOCIAL ART FORM. TO ME I THINK THAT IS ONE OF HIS
MOST LASTING LEGACIES FOR MET WORLD. AS FOR THE BAY AREA I'M GOING TO
LEAVE THAT ONE TO YOU. >> IT'S TRICKY. THE BAY AREA HAS HAD SO MANY
STYLE FIGHTS FOR A NUMBER OF DECADES THAT IN A WAY HIS
WORK HAS BEEN KIND OF OUTSIDE OF IT. I THINK IT'S BEEN MORE THE
MESSAGES. I CERTAINLY KNOW A NUMBER OF
LOCAL ARCHITECTS WHO JUST LOVE THE WORK FOR THE PURITY OF
IT. YOU KNOW LOOK HOW WELL HE CAN DO
THE DETAILS. IT'S INTERESTING WITH THE APPLE
STORE IN UNION SQUARE THAT'S THE FIRST REAL PUBLIC
BUILDING THAT HE DID. AND I THINK THAT THAT -- I THINK
THAT STARTS TO TALK TO THIS URBANISM. WHY NOT MAKE A WALL DISAPPEAR IN
A RETAIL AREA WITH GOOD WEATHER. WHEREAS THE APPLE BUILDING
THERE'S THE PURE DESIGN INFLUENCE. I THINK THE CAMPUS HAS
DEFINITELY PROVOKED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SPRAWL, CAR ORIENTATION,
HOW YOU MEASURE GREEN. IT'S FRUSTRATING HE -- FOSTER
AND PARTNERS BUT DEFINITELY YOU FEEL NORMAN'S
HAND IN IT HAS DESIGNED WHAT WOULD BE THE SECOND TALLEST
TOWER IN SAN FRANCISCO AND IT WOULD BE ON THE BLOCK
FACING THE SALES FORCE TOWER. AND IT WOULD BE TALLER THAN THE
TRANS AMERICA PYRAMID AND THEN IT STARTED COMING UP. AND THE DEVELOPER KIND OF SLOWED
DOWN AND IS LOOKING TO SELL IT. AND THE PANDEMIC HIT. AND IF YOU GO DOWN TO FIRST
STREET BETWEEN MARKET AND MISSION YOU SEE AN AREA WHERE
BUILDINGS WERE PRESERVED. URBANISTICALLY IT'S A SMART
BUILDING IN WAYS WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR. AND YOU SEE RUSTING STEEL
STICKING UP ABOUT A STORY. AND IT -- I HOPE IT GETS DONE
JUST TO FINISH THINGS UP. BUT ALSO AT THAT -- SU KNOW ONE
THING ABOUT TOWERS AT THAT SCALE IT CAN REALLY START
TO TEACH SOME LESSONS ABOUT WHAT IS IT WE VALUE IN
21ST CENTURY URBAN CULTURE IN TERMS OF AESTHETICS BUT ALSO
IN ENGAGEMENT WITH THE SIDEWALK AND THE PUBLIC REALM. THE MAIN TOWER WOULD BE LIFTED
UP 70 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND AND THE SPACE BENEATH IT
WOULD BE A PLAZA. WE PROBABLY HAVE A WHOLE
SEPARATE PANEL TO DO ABOUT BAY AREA ARCHITECTURE. I'M VERY VERY CURIOUS ABOUT IT. I WANT TO GO OVER ONE MINUTE IF
YOU HAVE THE TIME. ONE OTHER QUESTION HERE THAT I
THINK IS REALLY WORTH -- IT RELATES TO WHAT WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT. IF THERE'S STUDENTS ON THE CALL
IT'S RELEVANT. CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE TENSION
BETWEEN THE FOCUS/SPECIALIZATION REQUIRED
FOR THE APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING TO MASTER THE ART OF
MAKING THINGS AND THE BROADER EXCHANGE THAT
INTERDISCIPLINARY WORK REQUIRES? BROADLY FOR EDUCATION IN FIELDS
LIKE STEM AND LIBERAL ARTS? I THINK THAT'S A REALLY
INTERESTING QUESTION TO CLOSE ON. >> THAT'S AN ESSAY QUESTION. >> PARTON ME. >> THAT'S AN ESSAY QUESTION. >> IT'S A LONG QUESTION WITH AN
ANSWER THAT WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GIVE A FAIR SHAKE. NORMAN IS THE BALANCE OF THESE 2
SIDES THAT THE QUESTIONER IS ASKING ABOUT. HOW DO YOU BALANCE THE
EXTRAORDINARY PATIENCE IT TAKES TO BECOME YOU KNOW A BUILDER. YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO REALLY
TRULY KNOWS HOW TO BUILD. AND THE BROADER UNDERSTANDING OF
SOCIETY WHICH ALSO TAKES AN EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF
TIME AND DEDICATION. AND I DO THINK NORMAN IS
UNIQUELY SITUATED AS A PERSON WHO DOES BOTH. DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT
WHETHER THAT IS -- DO YOU THINK THAT'S A PARTICULAR FORM
OF GENIUS. DO YOU THINK IT'S JUST REALLY
REALLY HARD WORK. DO YOU THINK IT'S JUST A
MINDSET. >> I THINK PART OF IT IS -- PART
OF IT IS THE BACKGROUND. AND PROBABLY IT WAS EASIER TO
APPRENTICE ARE THEN. I MEAN A SUMMER INTERNSHIP AT A
WOOD MAKER AT A FURNITURE MAKER SHOP WOULD BE AN
INITIAL KIND OF GET YOUR FEET WET IN TERMS OF CRAFT
AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TO GO THROUGH YEARS AND YEARS. I THINK ALSO IT'S AGE. THAT'S THE BEAUTIES OF
ARCHITECTURE RELATED FIELDS TELL RESPECTS PEOPLE GETTING OLDER. AND RESPECTS THE IDEA THAT YOU
ACCUMULATE. A VERY GOOD YOUNGER LANDSCAPE
ARCHITECT IN THE BAY AREA TOLD ME HOW HE WORKED IN LOS
ANGELES LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT MIALERER'S OFFICE. SHE'S PRONE TO STRONG STATEMENT
OPINIONS WHICH IS GREAT. SHE WAS SAYING THERE'S NO GOOD
LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT UNDER 50 YEARS OLD. YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 50 TO
START KNOWING THE PLANTS. IN A WAY I THINK IT WORKS WITH
BUILDINGS. I MEAN THE IDEA THAT NORMAN
FOSTER CAN TALK TO YOU AND PULL FIRST HAND LESSONS ABOUT --
FROM BUCK MINISTER FULLER AND PAUL RUDOLF, THAT'S A
RICHNESS OF EXPERIENCE THAT YOUR BEST STUDENT ISN'T
GOING TO GET FROM READING BOOKS ABOUT BUCK MIN STERFULLER
OR PAUL RUDOLF OR GOING TO THE BUILDING OR GOING TO AN
EXHIBIT. HE'S BEEN OPEN TO NEED TO
CONTINUE GROW AND THINK. >> ABSOLUTELY BOUNDLESS
CURIOSITY I FIND AND I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT THE PROFESSION BEING QUITE COUNTER
CULTURAL. IN THE SENSE THAT IF THE CULTURE
IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DOING WHATEVER YOU'RE GOING TO
DO SUCCESSFULLY BY THE TIME YOU'RE 30 YEARS OLD. WHETHER IN TECH STOCKS OR
BANKING OR BEING A SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCER WHICH I STILL
DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS. NOT TO SOUND LIKE A LUDDITE. BILLY CHEN WILL SAY THE SAME
THING. I'M -- I JUST TURNED 56. IT WASN'T UNTIL I WAS 50 THAT I
STARTED THINKING MAYBE I KNOW A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT
THIS FIELD. THAT'S A DIFFICULT MESSAGE FOR
YOUNG PEOPLE TO HEAR. PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPENT A LOT OF
TIME AND MONEY IN SCHOOL. NOT UNTIL THEY'RE 50 THAT THEY
BEGIN TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING AS A FULLY FORMED
PROFESSIONAL. AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THE
APPRENTICE THING IS PROBLEMATIC BOTH FROM THE
PERSPECTIVE OF MANY EMPLOYERS WHO DON'T WANT TO TEACH YOUNG
ARCHITECTS HOW -- THEY WANT THEM TO DO RENDERINGS OR
WHATEVER IT IS. ALSO A LOT OF YOUNG EMPLOYEES
CAN BE RESISTANT TO THIS IDEA THAT THEY'VE GOT TO KIND OF
JUST LEARN AND ALL THE HARD WORK IT TAKES TO LEARN ALL
OF THOSE THINGS IN THE EARLY YEARS. IT KIND OF GOES BOTH WAYS. NEITHER OF THOSE GENERALIZATIONS
ARE TRUE FOR EVERYONE. >> RIGHT AND YOUTH IS ESSENTIAL
-- YOUTH IS ESSENTIAL JUST TO QUESTION THE THINGS THAT
EVERYONE ASSUMES IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING IN AN
ARCHITECTURE OFFICE OR A PLANNING OFFICE OR WHATEVER. BUT IT IS TRICKY THAT IT, YOU
KNOW THE DESIGN FIELDS ARE THE ANTITHESIS THE FIELDS
WHERE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS WHAT'S BEEN CREATED
IN THE LAST 2 OR 3 YEARS. THAT'S WHY IT'S SUCH A GREAT
TALK TO LISTEN TO ALL THE DIFFERENT LEVELS HE KIND OF
WEAVED INTO HIS HOUR CHATTING WITH YOU. >> THANK YOU. JOHN, I WANT TO GIVE YOU -- WE
ARE OVER TIME. I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A MINUTE IF
YOU HAVE CLOSING THOUGHTS. >> THIS IS A LEARNING PROCESS
FOR ME. I REALLY APPRECIATE BEING ASKED
TO TAKE PART. >> WE'RE LEARNING -- THESE TIMES
OPENED UP NEW WAYS TO DO THINGS. THIS HAS BEEN A TREAT THIS
PROCESS. I APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON THIS
JOURNEY WITH US. >> MY PLEASURE ENTIRELY. >> I WANT TO THANK THE AUDIENCE
OUT THERE. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
TUNED IN. WE APPRECIATE THAT. PLEASE CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS
SPACE IN THE BERKELEY ARTS AND DESIGN SERIES. THERE'S EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE
CONTINUING TO COME. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS
EVENING AND WE'LL SEE YOU SOON. JOHN, THANK YOU.
