IMPROVED 20 x F-22 Raptors vs 100 x Su-35 Flankers | 5th Gen vs 4th Gen Battle | DCS

hello valued viewers I hope you're all doing very well and welcome to what almost certain is going to be a very important and interesting technical battle uh let me try and explain so about a year ago we did this 20 F-22 Raptors versus 100 su-35 super flankers and it didn't go quite as expected and so I promised we would revisit it and here we are a year later so the way we do things in gr is a little bit different we like to lay out the battle we like to set it up as best we can do a little bit of testing but then just run it we don't like to script the outcome for a certain outcome now because of that I mean sometimes it doesn't always work and this was one of those it didn't work very well the whole idea was I was trying to show how good 5th gen full stealth aircraft are against traditional 4th gen aircraft and although the f-22s in this case did more damage to the flankers than the flankers did to the Raptors the flankers still won the battle and highlighted some deficiencies in the way that we set the battles up hence revisiting it having this no scripting policy has advantages and disadvantages advantages are that it means that our reactions to it are real in real time which is good for you guys but disadvantages are sometimes it just doesn't work out as we saw here that said sometimes when it doesn't work out is when it's most interesting because it means I can liaise with you guys the viewers in the comments and we can work out why it went wrong and what we can do to improve it which brings us on to today improved version very simple summary here is Cyprus we've got 20 Rap tours with modern missiles here is Syria we've got 100 su-35s with modern missiles we're going to test how good the Raptors are can they fend off this giant swarm of 4th gen aircraft so let's go through what's different to last time the Reds the Russians have no changes at all in fact they have one change I made a small mistake on the previous version I only put 93 in I meant to put 100 in so I've now buffed them up to 100 otherwise they are exactly the same so there are 100 AI flown su-35s all set to Max skill level otherwise they've been given no orders at all they can do what they want and of course they will attack the Raptors in terms of Loadout I've given them what I consider their best loadout 8 or 77-1s and some close range IR missiles now at this point you're going to say hang on a minute the Russians have better weapons of this they have the r77m and the r37m ax head but I beg to differ when it comes to anti-stealth I consider this their best weapon it doesn't have the best range but that doesn't matter because they'll only ever see or be able to shoot at a stealth a raptor within 20 miles anyway so the best weapon really is the most maneuverable one and that is this fence guided r77-1 100 of them will take off and just swarm the Raptors also they will have a uttering of humans to help and will go through them in a bit otherwise no changes the rap tours I have changed but I've tried to put as few changes in as possible so we can quantify the difference it makes can a few small changes make a major difference to the battle and that's what today is all about so the three changes I've made to the blue side are I've moved them from the am120d1 they had last time too deep more modern or slightly futuristic aim 260. why is that well the aim 120d1 is an okay missile it's better than an a120c but it just doesn't have the stopping power to fight this let's face it hugely unrealistic swarm and therefore the killing power of the aim260 is needed it's going to have a better probability of kill second is the firing range usually when we use these modern missiles we like to set them to fight at the maximum range it has the best tactical benefit but today we don't want tactical we must have have high levels of kill we must cull the Swarm faster that they can come at us so today instead of firing a max range we are going to fire halfway between max range and no Escape range that means rather than about 130 miles we're going to fire at about 70 miles giving a much better probability of kill and the third thing we're changing and this is the most important is the takeoff rate we can't control the AI onto the Airborne what they do they will do what they want to do but what we can control is the spacing or the timings that they can take off and this as it turns out is going to have a huge effect on this battle so I've set them to take off at an average of one aircraft every minute last time we just allowed them to all take off in one big Clump and that didn't work very well they did not deconflict their missiles very well and they all fired at the same targets wasted their missiles turned around got overwhelmed by the Swarm this time because they're just taking off one at every minute they will not fire at the same targets at least if it all works and that is literally the only changes we've done they will otherwise also have human support probably just one and they've got a Nissan's battery there protecting the base and that's it Mega simple avac support on both sides we'll have a quick look at the aircraft involved but we are running different versions but almost no change Version 9 of the Raptor it's got an Acer radar in it or analog of it right across section 0.0001 meter squared meaning it could be seen best case just under 20 miles it's missile has been upgraded to the aim 260 with a range of 130 miles although we were not seeing of those shots against su-35 or on version 8 now with a grps or Radar Radar cross section 5 meters squared could be seen A long long way away and it's uh missiles we've already looked at so guys just to reiterate we are doing the same fight as last time in fact a slightly harder version of it last time it failed the rap tools started off well but then they get swamped the viewers diagnosed it as inefficient firing and tactics from the blues I've tried to address those with just a few small changes I've done some testing to check bits work but I'm not actually run it all the way through so I don't know fully what's going to happen but predictions please uh I still think the Swarm is going to overwhelm this warm is unrealistic in terms of Fighters no country in the world is going to throw 100 Fighters at something but swarm in smaller things like drones is a thing and we've proved how horrendously effective it can be hey I'm going to do AI things and the f22s are going to lose all right fair enough I'm I like I said I haven't run it through but I'm gonna go for the f-22s because I've worked hard at this and I really want them to win uh I think it all depends on the efficiency to be honest that's it it's the efficiency it's how quickly the f-22s can get through targets with their missiles before the next set of f-22s comes in I think four ships can deconflict I think the AI portship but it's the separate flights that can't deconflict with the flights can't you conflict with each other so you might get number one from flight a will shoot at the exact same Target as number one from flight B so if you can get flight a to get through all of their missiles before flight B enters the fight there's a good probability that the f-22s can get through a lot of it the nail on the head there that is exactly what I looked at when I watched a previous video back and that's exactly why I've done these three changes Simba a more powerful missile that can kill better a better firing range for actual killing the Target and the takeoff rates one flight every four minutes yeah so basically what you said welcome into the battle viewers we've got fire as a respawning raptor Simba destroyer and Birda in respawning su-35 Simba please on poor server viewers this I'm really looking forward to this is what I consider the Pinnacle of what Jr are doing at the moment big battles the battle itself is not realistic but the idea is we're testing the Technologies and how to use the most efficiently and getting real-time results and discussing it with you this is what I want to do basically right we're going um let's look at Raptor fire is taking off we've got 100 AI we have actually got 100 this time AI su-35s with what I consider the best weapons for this operation my humans down here or Simba's hungry oh it's a challenge in itself I can't believe you doubted me the distance between France viewers is 111 miles now the jtam can't actually fire that far but like I said or if you skip the briefing we're not firing a max range today we need a really good PK probability of kill so if firing at maximum range gets somewhere between about five and 25 probability of kill depending on how many guys we've got in the game the more guys in the game the worse is for reasons I explained a video a few things ago that doesn't sound great but it's tactically actually very good it puts all of the hostiles cold keeps them contained if we fire at half that range we get a much better probability of Q I'm going to punt for about 50 maybe a bit more today because we need we've only got 100 missiles we've only got 120 missiles I've just realized on the Raptors and we've got to kill a hundred guys we actually need about 100 PK I've literally just realized that wow and I think about that when I was doing my maths but okay this is going to be hard viewers really really hard for the AI for the Raptors in fact I'm awfully awfully worried we can't do this now I'm gonna get gonna get in trouble with the viewers again but we will try you could say there's always a risk of not scripting the things but I find it the most interesting viewers let me know your thoughts don't like the sanitized things right all kinds of uh super flankers taking off um why have we chosen the super flanker uh is it the best fourth gen jet ever made not really but it is a good solid fourth gen jet with lots of fuel it's just just a good all-rounder it's a bit like f-15e a good all-rounder and will pose a threat to the Raptor they always do the thing about swarm is viewers raptor is always going to beat su-35 at range for obvious reasons the sg35 can't see it until it's closed the Raptor can see it from a long way away but when you do swarm like this that has a pro as we've proved so many times now A property of its own a swarm just overwhelms things I need incredibly efficient fire to beat it and it's just not very easy even with human drivers trained human drivers beating swarm is very very difficult wow a Simba is High I mean you're not Hello high but you're pretty high Simba right distance between fronts of uh sub 100 miles now I expect the Raptors to fire at 60 to 70 miles today oh I forgot to say viewers to make new tactics work the f-22s I don't know if I showed it but I put them on that skill level obviously but I've done one different thing I've told them to far at a certain range but then once they fired their missiles I've asked them to rtb so they're fire six missiles off in fact I just realized I didn't show you the load up sorry they've got six jtams on board and two Sidewinders in still for configuration once they've fired their missiles off they will rtb back home rather than fighting to the death that's not what today is about and if we do Austin to fight to the devil they will actually do worse because they will confuse the front lines and it's very possible the next flight which have just spawned in four minutes behind will actually end up shooting them down so I've basically tried to tailor their takeoff rate to be as efficient as possible distance between fronts now of 80 nautical miles not long now before we see our first J terms we won't see any adders for a long time No Hands crossed I've got toes crossed I hope this works viewing two Wilmington's red you do whatever you want but for me I went High behind the first layer of AI first missiles out at 70 miles just what I predicted now at this reduced range of jtam is really potent viewers you can ignore the 30 000 feet that it shows you can double it it should be 60 000 feet in a loft pattern uh that is something we cannot simulate unfortunately this is going to be interesting more J Tams out how efficiently will they fire viewingtons 3j terms out billion dollars to the taxpayer obviously no return so far by the su-35s nine J Tams out if they do follow their orders properly viewers they will further missiles out as quickly as they can at bearing targets then just turn around the missiles don't worry will guide themselves on the data link right first missile in we go probability of kill how well can we do today look how fast that missile was coming in still Mark two and a half first skill of the day one su-35 down all right things are happening uh second one evaded that's frustrating viewers it will happen like I worked out a few minutes ago we need pretty much 100 PK probability of kill to win this smash good shot sir T3 missiles fired four hostiles down thus far oh man it's real hard to know what to watch obviously six su-35s down trying to get the big picture here seven su-35s down 10 su-35 sound we're doing good but we've got to do better we need 24 su-35s down unfortunately some of the missiles will just go down 13 su-35 sound imagine what it's like trying to fight against these Raptors viewers just your mates your friends just blew up missiles evaded wow 16 su-35 down that's not too bad still need to do better all raptors have turned around look viewers actually following orders for once sometimes they just will not do it 17 su-35 done that's not too bad that's pretty good viewers some of them just missed look couldn't do the kill kinematically 24 missiles fired 21 kills that's nearly 100 PK viewers isn't that interesting firing at just the right range now that's not going to be useful in every scenario in a lot of the naval battles it just works out better tactically to launch them at long range even if you don't get the kill because it means the other guys will never even get to shoot their missiles I always say this don't confuse probability of kill with the Tactical effectiveness of the missile sometimes just firing at the biggest range even if you don't get the kill has the best overall result on the battle this is anti-swarm this is a little bit different viewers and we need that property 22 missiles 26 missiles 5 22 kills nearly 100 PK that is unbelievably good now that will get worse as the battle goes on because things will get more and more confused more parameters will come into play my humans look my humans emerge together there for any ones wanna fifty thousand one at seven thousand oh symbol always has go up to blow up so I've yet to see them you won't see them until 20 miles if you get to see a raptor today you've done a damn fine job right 40 missiles out 42 missiles are the next guys covering these guys here viewers and you can see why I set that four minute spawn right now because it allows this chainsaw as it's called to work as ones got fired is going back they are now covered by the next battery once they've go back the next flight will take off and you'll get this beautiful chainsaw and it's very hard for red to do anything about you can have a big tactical plan for the Reds where you go like pincer around here a pincer around here but then you start running into fuel problems because you're talking hundreds of miles it's very hard for Reds to do anything about this hard to know what to watch now viewingtons it's very hard for the flankers to outrun the missiles like this because they've got so much speed you see there if they were fired at longer range he would have outrun that missile there too they're three but because we're closer better probability of kill faster missile harder to be wow 33 su's down this is just going sweet the main problem is friggin December at the moment diet Simba you're scuppering the plan 35 su's down and how Simba survived so long but hopefully these guys will pick him up on the next chainsaw so the second step of the Chainsaw is now done they're all eight rtb and the next layer of the Chainsaw is now out and climbing for altitude only aware of what's going on all these aircraft share the same information on data link and that goes for both sides come on and not quite fast enough 38 of the 100 su-35s down that's not good enough not quite good enough got a probability to appeal of about 75 percent I mean it's good to get that many kills but it's not sustainable and look how close the swarm's getting once the Swarm catches you that's it you're doomed 39 down December being what we in the industry called a big that said fuel is all modeled he's already flown 100 miles and had to do dodging with afterburners on he will run out of fuel eventually he's got quite good at evading gr missiles eventually someone's going to catch him out okay the Swarm is now halfway across the time when he's straight which gives me all sorts of anxieties viewers and they're in a Big Blob okay good news is the next player of the Chainsaw is firing group three flight three 70 missiles out uh 39 kills and they put the symbol cold again so that's good keep him at Bay viewers right next a bunch of missiles coming in come on we need ah too many notches going on too many missiles being defeated and I'm not liking that one bit multiple missiles chasing Simba now smack now the problem is he's bringing him down low where even j-towns aren't very good download viewers they can't you know just smash their way through physics and you see look see how the speed is decreasing close to the thick air down here wow that bread to fart a missile the Reds have managed to fire a missile they've got within 20 miles of a Raptor finally and I said they fired it at the Raptor that fired at me yes they did and this is a very good anti-steopness I remember viewers is the most maneuverable missile we have on our gr inventory but it has been beaten it's lost track it's lost track why did it lose track because the stealth it's not perfectly modeled but it is fairly well modeled 53 su-35 down more than 50 now that's good and birds about to get a face full of oh gentlemen's relish bird no one wants a face full of Gentleman's Relish desperately trying to outrun the missile go on jtam go on Jay term if it doesn't kill him viewers it will burn all of his fuel away pulls him down 78 missiles fired 57 flankers shot down well done guys don't know what I'm saying that the AI didn't respond to me they didn't even have lives AI lives did literally not matter but I do want them to win this time you might want to be careful with all this uh AI learning technology that people are starting to invest in right one day AI is going to scan the internet and hear you saying AI lives don't matter and so when I said AI lives don't matter I lied I love AI promote me AI already hates me they've kicked me out the YouTube algorithm like a year ago I hate it it hates me uh right the f2s flight 4 up and just just protecting the other 16 that have gone ahead of them and the last one spawned in the last 20 of spawning in viewers oh I don't know if it's good or bad we killed 58 so far of 100 I don't know if it's enough because look the Swarm is now firing missiles and they're 40 miles away from Taiwan viewing to Wilmington is going to be a close one more massage being fired I think the Raptors are finally been caught out here come on Cole Cole call more of them this is very much a worst case scenario for a raptor viewers a raptor is never gonna have to fight 100 playing swarm obviously but we try and make pretty much everything we do in gr the worst case scenario it's just what we like to do makes you work well first Raptor down okay we can live with one oh and more missiles Hospital muscles coming in but we've pushed another battery of them away oh oh no he slowed himself out you trapped oh wow uh I think appears to have happened viewers I was probably internet lagged that made it look like it was closer than it actually was okay a lot of failed missiles here viewers they were probably fired from too low down that means they never got up to Mach 5. why is the m120 so much better than the aim uh 120d as we have it modeled it's a mark 5 missile instead of a mark IV missile and it retains its energy better we've modeled it as it would should do in real life to go much higher and dive down therefore retains energy better now here's the good thing bad thing bad thing is we've not killed all this Bunch what we need to do good news is we've probably just wasted a load of their fuel having to out on those missiles that's good 102 missiles fired 72 hostiles down last flight of raptors now taking it off they've got to kill 28 plus humans bad news is they only have 24 missiles hmm and Simba's still alive are you freaking serious just die as I watch on YouTube all these master class uh adverts are you gonna do a master class on how to dodge missiles how was he not done he he doesn't see these missiles viewers FYI they don't see what I see here they do see odds and swords but he does not know when a missiles coming after him or where it's coming from basically has been incredibly annoying what it's doing is he's messing up the next flight of AI fire you need to get your skates on and go and kill Simba working on it everything he does is messing up the tactics right last F-22 taking off that's some good news they're all going to get distracted by Simba annoyingly I'm on AI come on a what I don't want them to do is all concentrating Sim because Simba's sucking up all of my valuable missiles and remember we've only got 120 missiles today on the blue side so if he sucks up 20 we just don't have enough uh here we go the little firing at him God damn it Slimmer knows it I do not want to put like the Patriots say at the air base there is uh Nissan's Patriot's a bit too big I think a bit cheesy oh look they're all firing a Simba come on kill him kill him kill him kill him kill him die simple die yeah finally we got him he's waited all our freaking missiles of it and because of that they fired all the aim on 260s low down where they're rubbish they're rubbish down here look it never goes pop mark one two oh I got so frustrated viewers right not to worry the game's still all to play for if I only do Airborne stat oh right go and kill stuff your job is now just to kill everything and quickly because adders are being fired right where's okay two Raptors are down I'm getting fast enough viewers good news is those no no no no you don't no you don't not my beloved Raptor ha you see what goes through him like that that's probably is the stealth has evaded it and he's prob oh no he's dead it was just took him a long time to die I said that back yeah the problem is these j-tams have fired too low viewers and look 400 knots 400 knots ain't gonna kill s 122 blue missiles fired almost every missile that's going to be fired has been fired 77 hostiles down into 23 to go oh and a load of run out of fuel look that's good that's as good as him being dead this is bad this guy's got through Simba has allowed his guys to get through evaded somehow as the low radar cross section being useful but eventually he will burn through that and they will start dying or he'll use heat-seeking missiles someone's got to freaking take care of the haircut fires on the case go fire good shot do that much more Plex spot again protecting his valuable Raptors 79 up and down good shot fire oh my God a stride is in now damn humans okay here come the battery of missiles I just don't think they're fast enough viewers they're not you see that they were struggling I EOS better range than my radar yeah it will do yo today yo definitely the best though I'm fast enough yeah 82 of them down and a load being chased away and burning their fuel off oh my beautiful reptiles they've got through 82 down come on mince him mince him whoops wrong button yes most of those missiles missed as you can see viewers but more and more running out of fuel add a few out of fuel out of fuel out of fuel out of fuel we've just got a fence to write her off and these are all Landing now viewers look they're all Landing where's fire you should be up there killing uh somebody killed me get back up humans are an address born and that's equals itself out on both sides I gotta lock but my missile doesn't lock they will sort of track but they'll also be duped very easily some will hit somewhere oh you've got you got one right there it's because of the cross section okay the Raptors are going to land they will actually rearm and come out and fight again uh but not try to choose them all up you have no heartstrider you have no heart I helped my team Advance leave it to them to prove our Supremacy Rogers amberwember all of these su-35s now out of fuel so those missiles didn't kill them but it put them out of the game by burning them making them go low burning their fuel out so there's only bird active Striker just got smacked from somewhere I didn't see where it came from but a thing happened right now just feed the rest of them oh there's an adder in the freaking Hen House like I said these are really good anti-stilt missiles they sometimes will lose track as you see but that's the same with all missiles against stealth but they're still surrounded by su-35s and birds coming in with a fresh load of beautiful adders okay there are five su's left with fuel four su's left with fuel conradors just land they're the slowest millsim Landers I think I've ever seen just land it was him not important right now [Applause] cost the taxpayer cost to America 1.6 billion wow cost of Russia nearly 8 billion that's an expensive day right here we go a fight is happening right here viewers oh I think has happened oh oh oh oh oh oh wow amazing Dodge fire oh Chase is assuming these guys here will shut their engines down viewers you'll see them shut their engines down you see he's doing it right now and he will rearm and go back out so we can just hold them off for a minute we'll get some fresh boys out beware of droid 166. I hate Droid 166 definite worst Droid wasn't and they sounds freaking firing what do I pay it for hmm no your Sam's foreign Archer as well smash come on hurry up and realm how long does it take you South ground crew work those chicken arms harder all the others being chucked in why do the f-22s not fight back with their sidewanders viewers uh they're not programmed to the program to go back and rearm and they are just simple AI only two su-35s left with fuel all of those are rtb and out of the fight oh just guys is he here no Droid 166. wow he will not friggin die Simba Droid 166 is a real problem oh now Birds got in with my friggin get out of my hand house bird wow a thing happened get off him okay Droid 166 I think we've run out of boy give him the gun do not give him a gun but an Asam site is the worst no sim size I've ever seen I guess they're finding that guy on there all right fires chasing one away bird will hopefully just run into his own fallibility and crash foreign that gun's working apparently the gun's working so yeah fuel yes is that a fuel destroyed 166 is out of fuel it's just you bird everyone else is out of fuel suck it bro yeah bird you need wings to fly you need wings body lift alone won't do it it was unhappy it was ugly and the red humans really made us work for it but finally we've won against this huge anti-swarm so let's just reiterate everything everyone else is just out of fuel look let's reiterate why it worked I'm so chuffed about that we actually made a red slightly harder because we added a few more but the blues we didn't we didn't really cheat all we did was we changed the missiles to a better man stopper like going from a a Glock to a Colt 45 one that will 100 stop the aircraft then we changed then they fire at so rather than firing at 130 miles they fire at 70 miles so the probability of kill wow look at that that's almost exactly what I said I said 50 would go for we got about 60 so 60 probability of kill that's awesome and the third thing was I kind of scripted their takeoffs so that they will be able to cover each other perfectly now I can't do that every time I know what you're going to say do that in all the battles I can't because it's specific for each battle it depends who they're firing about against how many they're firing against the distance that they're engaging at the height they're flying at so this time to watch it go through and script them perfectly but it's not it's not possible to keep doing that in every single battle as well as that firing at the closer range won't work in every single battle is specific to you know set it for each battle in that case uh but in this case it just about worked the human the regiments made it hard because they caught the attention of my Ai and wasted their missiles God knows how many missiles symbol wasted and that was the best I could do they were never going to shoot down a lot of raptors but they did I know they did at the end but that's because they were going into weird stupid AI mode and refusing to fight back but so well done everyone everyone's done as well as I can ask them to and I'm just chuffed with uh come back and managed to do it like the viewers wanted like I said sometimes we have to come back and do it two or three times but that's the learning process and that's the cool interactivity I like to have Pilots um any comments from your side or about 90 of it I actually have never got a single f221 radar I had to get in close for an EO and even though I had it locked my missile never got the lock so it was kind of weird where I can shoot a missile but never actually tracked it that is our best guess to real life as well is a guess but that's our best guess uh NASA another one put to bed I hope you enjoyed that and bye bye

Channel: Grim Reapers

Views: 131,546

Keywords: DCS, DCS World, GR, F-22, Raptor, Su-35, Flanker, AIM-260, JATM, R-77-1, Missile, Dogfight, Battle, 5th Gen, Stealth

Id: fqtU-dqh_JI

Length: 33min 55sec (2035 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 12 2023