Ignition Timing Tuning explained

morning YouTube I'm here at blueprints in the living room they're being very nice to me but allow me to demonstrate some things here today I want to talk about tightening what mechanically happens in the engine how much related to the timing table that you see in your maps hopefully this will help you guys figure out some issues you might be having I've been asked a lot of questions about this so hopefully he wants the video alone all right so we're talking about timing how it affects your motor what exactly it is and how do we set our base Maps based on and what we want out of the car so timing here we're talking about is ignition timing not the actual crank cam timing we're using this motor to demonstrate this is a 4 B 11 as you can see this is a hurt motor one of the professionals basically tuned it in a month later catastrophic failure it was running lean and those detonation on this cylinders but for our purpose we just want to know what timing is so timing ignition timing to be specific refers to when the spark plugs ignites the air fuel mixture ratio so how does the computer know how does your computer know when to do it so it uses a reference point in front of the motor somewhere here there is a timing gear on the timing gear there's a notch which indicates top dead center or if you look up on the internet it's referred to as single DC which basically means your piston number one is on top dead center which means all the way to the highest position that it can possibly get before it starts moving downwards like this so this is top dead center and this is downwards two key elements and timing is advance and so advanced means igniting the air fuel mixture on the way up when the piston is traveling to top dead center that is called advance and the is when the when the air fuel mixture is ignited on the way down on the down stroke so significance of that is timing will produce less power than advance timing the more advanced timing to a point you'll basically make power so once the the ECU recognizes that hey this is top dead center and the piston is on its way up and it's you know certain distance away is calculated in gears or to serve degrees how much before how much time or angles before of the crank before we can ignite so usually for example if it's you know say the modern oh like 20 when you're not running on boost or anything like that and it's ignites its it needs to it travels up while the flame is growing in the combustion chamber so it kind of compresses the exhaust flames as well creating more downforce on the downstroke because now the airfield make sure the exhaust mixture is pushing the pistons down so again to a point right once you go to advance out of certain rpm or you know depending on your field the motor is actually fighting it because you cannot stop the force from going up so what causes is knocking pinning or whatever else people turn house we use so I usually start low you know work your way up interesting fact is a good way to think about timing is actual time spent in igniting the air/fuel mixture so more time you allow for that flame to be grown and complete burned a more portly will produce another key factor is top dead center dwell which basically means how much time does this piston spend on top dead center if you can look at my rotating wrench here see this this play right here that is the dwell time so while at top the piston sits there without moving for this many degrees so when you ignite say here and flame is growing it's growing growing going and it still sits there and then it's pushes the on the way down that's due to stroke and rod length that creates a lot of torque in power that is probably one of the main reasons other than actual displacement why stroke or motors produce more power this is one of the basic reasons as well on top of displacement so tuning wise that is very very important to know that your your engine is you know your piston is sitting at top dead center for a short period of time so you know you play with the dwell time of the ignition spark plugs which is basically how long the spark is inside the spark plug jumping the arc and it stays there so that's basically the start point I hope I explained it well enough if I haven't please correct me let me know if there's any other questions and the next thing I'm going to show you is it for I'm sorry forty sixty three month alright so this is a for GCC keyboard this is a stroker motor it's ninety four millimeter I believe 94 millimeter stroke and this is a very long rod so as I was demonstrating before piston dwell time as you can see I'm just like a show it to you this piston if you focus on that and look at the my wrench it spins this much that's a lot at top dead center compared to the other motor I showed you previously does due to the long rod and being a little bit more of a stroker it's very key that you know your tuner knows that and understands what's going to happen because if you keep learning advance timing the piston has nowhere to go once it goes to the top and it spends this much time the flame is still growing it's really gonna push the piston back yet creating torque at the same time it could be dangerous so again starting low is very very good next video the differences between four be eleven and forty 63 so now that we have a better idea of what happens mechanically in the engine and the correlation to ignition timing I wanted to show the corresponding maps for the Evo 8/9 and evil 10 the two motors that we looked at so this is a tetra v7 map for evil ten I'm sorry Evo 8 and this is already in speed density mode typically this is downloaded from you know the internet these are free very popular a lot of people use it some go right to the timing table and if we take a look at the timing as you can see they're three elements in this timing one is rpm and the other one is load now this is load in kPa so for our purpose there's going to be another video on how to translate this to boost and how you can control you know where your cells land based on some of the other tables and scaling your four bar map sensor or five bar maps into whatever you have but for our purposes let's just you know assume that below hundred load it's all vacuum your car is not in boost and above a hundred is boost and let's just assume one to one ratio so you know hundred is zero and then twenty pounds of boost is you know two hundred or two hundred ten load so let's assume that and kind of go over what the engine is doing and the computer is doing the ECU is doing to kind of help the timing as you can see five hundred rpms which your car does not run on you should set this value a little higher it'll be easy to start an aftermarket ECU is you can actually lock these values so it always gives you a certain value when you start it but you know this is a stock ECU this doesn't have that feature so below hundred is starting is sixteen degrees I leave it at that usually sometimes I put it to twenty and my your idle you should be technically starting with a little bit higher depending on your cams and you know what mods you have on the system and lower it as you need if they're rpm is too high keep lowering the timing and adjusting the idle maps until you get it but what I wanted to show you is how the timing is set in the ECU as you can see this is very very high these numbers are in degrees so thirty-three degrees of timing the the crank actually has seven hundred plus degrees that it operates on so 33 degrees before top dead center on the compression stroke to make it easier I personally think of these as time as in time elapsed not degrees or anything like that the higher this time is the longer your your combustion mixture has the ability to grow because you're igniting the air if you mix your soul earlier so much earlier on on the compression stroke so at low rpm and low load this is even right barely out of idle you're not even in boost you're running in 200 I'm sorry 2000 to 3000 rpms not getting it to boost you're cruising around town the engine is very very slow it needs that time it needs a lot of timing to kind of make a complete burn to make more torque so off booze this is fine right here after hundred between hundred to two hundred load it's basically spool this is your spool area so you really have to know your turbo right some turbos like I had a 70 to 75 that I hit full boost at 6000 rpms but before that it started spooling like I got I don't know like 14 pounds around 5500 so it was here but a stock evo 9 or 10 turbo will actually you hit full boosts around 35 to 4,000 you know whatever that may be so your spool area is anywhere from you know 20 to 2,500 to say 3700 so this is your spool area as you can see the the timing dramatically decreases I personally don't like seeing anything above 6 degrees of timing at peak torque and peak torque will be a few hundred rpms after you hit full boost so if you step on the throttle and you hit full boost around 3500 peak torque will be right here so for that I actually my timing my boost is set to 25 psi so this is about the load that the ECU sees uses as 25 psi so I set this whole thing this right area you know I hit full boost at 35 so I take 2 35 and 37 and I take the boost 25 to 26 and I set the whole thing to 2 or 3 degrees to start so what happens is the ECU will take this route it'll follow this route and you won't you know hit high timing during peak torque that'll save your internals after that it'll start you know going down like this and it'll come it'll kind of come back because you'll lose boost up top if you have a stock ECU so it'll follow the timing download like this and it'll end up somewhere where your red line is I guess 7,000 7,500 so your peak timing is here to note the more important things to note here is how the transition is the timing during spool up on 93 octane this is what I run on stock bottom end that is mine you have to play with it depending on you know what kind of trouble you have and everything and then I gradually increase it on e85 on you know exotic fuels you could run you know heavier timing after the peak torque but my experience on 93 octane these timings that peak timings I tend to stop at like 14 15 maybe depending on the quality of the fuel a lot of factors go into that you want to make this as smooth as possible so as you can see my timing map is very smooth seven six you know one or two degrees changes which makes the car very smooth acceleration is smooth and less knocking that's what you want dramatic changes in timing will cause you more knocking if you have six here and you have say you know 15 here you'll knock over there so you don't want to do that very smooth timing and any car it doesn't matter what it is any car any issue that's what the car likes just remember slow rpm low loads you can run high I mean you kind of have to and then transition into boost this pool area you want to slow it down you want to play with it as much as you can see what your car likes and does not like and then peak torque I wouldn't go above six just to be you know on the safe side and then you know gradually just increase it so when the piston speed increases it's coming up to top dead center faster you kind of have to ignite it earlier so that's why they ain't timing increases as rpm increases and timing decreases as load increases so those are the two methods and then if you and now two things to look out for when you are doing your timing let's take a look at 2010 this is a evo 10 tephra v3 this is flex fuel map let's look at the timing on this see very similar the load is obviously a little bit less but same concept this is a completely stock map that we here is negative you'll never gonna hit these areas think about it you're never gonna be in 30 pounds of boost at 1000 rpm so I wouldn't worry about those things so that is for b11 and 4g63 how I personally start my timing if you have large cams you wanna you know say say your rpm to 1000 you wanna increase that area of timing higher until you find the right spot where what timing the car likes with the cams and the intake set up the job stay tuned because there will be more videos I am actually defined to do eight as the tuning on Evo eights basic modifications the most common want common ones so if you do see our video this is beady alchemists subscribe

Channel: BD Alchemist

Views: 6,915

Rating: 4.9012346 out of 5

Keywords: evo 8, evo 9, evo x, ecuflash, dynotune, 4b11, 4g63, 4g64, ignition timing, how to tune

Id: smExjQGxJ4w

Length: 17min 23sec (1043 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 28 2019