I failed and I am sorry, trying again to get rid of gas engineers making up their own regulations.

now then i seem to have caused a bit of a debate on one of my videos and that video is clearing up misconceptions of igem g11 unsafe situations procedure and how to classify them i've failed miserably and i've let you down and i apologize so let's get on with it and find out exactly what has happened in this video now the reason for the video was to try and clear up some misconceptions about our unsafe situations procedure in the gas industry and i've kind of proved my point with some of the comments what were put onto the video and the thumbs up so you guys have been putting up to these comments now i've had a really good discussion with a guy called ed metcalf jes ed for uh contributing to the video and he was adamant right at the very beginning that my first picture on the flu which was too close to a window but i was supposed to classify it as at-risk when i said it was not to current standards even though we were not getting any products of combustion back into the property through a window and he's even gone to the extent of contacting gas safe which is pretty good of him to do that and gas safe have come back and said not every flu when it's too close to a window is automatically at risk it's all about the different scenarios now at the end of the day it's the engineer's judgment so the whole thing about the unsafe situations procedure is so an engineer going out to service repair or install an appliance and they find an unsafe situation it's up to that engineer to make the decision on whether they think it's at risk id not to current standards and whether they need to read or it or not so it's your decision and if you decide that that situation is going to be at risk then you need some evidence to back it up with to make sure that you are categorizing them correctly so what i've done is i've put a few more together taken a few from uh a couple of old videos and we'll go through a few more of these unsafe situations and hopefully by the time we finish this video we have put all these misconceptions to bed and we can classify unsafe situations correctly and safely for us and for our customers let's get on with it then now this first picture represents you going to a site where they're doing some renovations and you find this in the kitchen where they're asking you to install a new boiler so what do you think about this one then so what we got here we've actually got a plastic push fit fit in on a gas pipe leading up to a bayonet feeding a cooker and the cooker is still working so what would you class this as and is there anything else you want to do besides using the old say situations procedure so i'll give you a few minutes or a few seconds i'll go find out the page in the book and see what it is and see if you're right so last look plastic push fit elbow on a gas pipe feeding a working gas appliance so where you're going to categorize that as so as you can see this is section 3 paragraph 2 on page 23 pipe work and or fittings of inappropriate material or purpose eg plastic water pipe or hose pipe or a gas pipe would be classed as immediately dangerous and i guess you would be ridoring as well so that was a nice easy one to start off with did you get it then it's id and it's rid of reportable so what made it rid or reportable now on the new igm 11 in addition too has this yellow section at the top now and i'll read it to you it says when considering whether an unsafe situation is read or reportable the following criteria needs to be met number one the situation is a result of design construction manner of installation modification or incorrect servicing of the fitting often referred to as poor workmanship or design and is it dangerous to such an extent it is likely to or has caused death unconsciousness taken to hospital of a person note c-section 8.6 for all other reportable routes why does it make it id riddle because somebody has used a water fitting on a gas pipe which could cause a leak and could cause an explosion and could cause death at any time so that's what makes it rid of reportable because somebody has actually done this so hopefully you've got that one number one id and read all for any plastic push fit fittings or hose pipes or any inappropriate fitting used on gas now in this scenario is you've got to do a landlords report you see there is a gas hub for an electric oven so when you remove the electric oven this is what you find so this is how it is connected so on further investigation you ask the tenant when was this hub fitted because it looks brand new and they said it was fitted by the landlord two weeks ago you're there to do a landlords report you remove the oven now some engineers say you can't remove the oven my personal opinion on it is if you don't remove the oven then you're not going to find something like this also they've told you the landlord's installed it not a gas engineer so how are you going to categorize this situation and what are you going to do again this comes under section 3 pipe work again it comes under 3 paragraph 2 pipe work and or fittings of inappropriate material or purpose eg plastic water pipe or hosepipe you can see it comes with id but would you redo the landlord well technically yes you should be ridoring the landlord because it's incredibly dangerous and he's going around doing gas work but does that mean you're not going to get paid for doing your landlords report well possibly not but i think i would be rather redoing the landlord and not getting paid for doing the landlords report than leaving something as dangerous as this if you don't agree with me put in the comments down below and let's see how many of you don't agree that you should read or the landlord now again you're out to do a laws report and you notice the fluid goes vertically into the loft and then through the roof so we must get into the loft and inspect it and this is what you find when you get into the loft so as you can see from the picture the flue is inadequately supported because they've used this banding and two they put some tape around the the actual joints so bear in mind those two scenarios what would you classify this as so again we'll find this in section six chimney flues for roon sealed on page 33 so it's 6.6 room sealed chimney flue system which are damaged insecure inadequately supported and are using incorrect jointing method to such an extent that it may cause it to become unsafe and or a breach of integrity is likely so that would be classed as at risk this one represents you going to price up to move a boiler for a self-build extension so there's no builder involved in this the actual homeowner is sorting it all out themselves and getting individual trades in to do the jobs and you rack up to give them a price to move the boiler and the customer is proud in the way they've diverted the products of combustion while the brickies are breaking up the extension i love this picture i think it's amazing i love the way they've used the toilet pan connector to bring it down with the waste pipe i think it's amazing but how would you classify this in the old safe situations procedure now then what have you classified this asp because basically what they've done is extended the flu system out through the window using plumbing pipes waste pipes but they've also encased the products of combustion and the air in in the same tube and then put it out the window believe it or believe it or not there is nothing in igm g11 to say what a bunched flu is so the only one any close to it is 6.6 which says a room sealed chimney flu system which are damaged insecure inadequately supported and or using incorrect jointing methods to such an extent that they may cause it to become unsafe and or breach integrity is likely and they've outreached it but would you at risk this situation never can announce chance would i be at risk in this what's your opinions on here stick in the comments down below if you think it's immediately dangerous but it would only be classed as immediately dangerous if you've got more than 10 parts per million of co coming into the room and i think probably if you stand there with your flue gas analyzer up that open window when the wind's blowing towards you you're going to get more than 10 parts per million co coming into the room but there is nothing or i could not find anything in here with this situation or this scenario it's all about whether products are coming back into the room [Music] so what did you put did you put at risk or did you put id and ridor because me personally i would be iding and rid or in this situation because it's so goddamn dangerous imagine if the bits of tape fell off and the heat affected it yeah anyway let's move on to the next one now this picture represents you going to do a landlord report again and this time when you go into the living room you find a flute space heater connected to the gas supply via a cooker hose what are we going to uh classify this as so have you got on with this one then could you id well if you did you'd be wrong because this comes under 7.11 flexible gas connections to a fluid domestic appliance is categorized as at risk but it does say that decide on the comments this requirement does not apply to a gas-fired tumble dryer installed to the requirements of bs7624 or a cooker so uh that is what you should have said we should have classified it as at-risk it's not id because at the end of the day that cooker hose can have gas going through it but if it was say a flexible tap connector connecting that fire to the gas supply then that would be immediately dangerous and middle reportable now this picture represents you going to service this valent boiler and you find this when you're inspecting the flu system what would you categorize this as did you actually notice the quite a few thoughts on this or did you just concentrate on the major one so let's go through it first ones is did you notice the test caps missing this has only just been added to this new version of igem g11 so this second edition and this is 7.2 now in the old edition the first edition 7.2 was left blank so this is now what it says in seven points in so breach of room sealed appliance integrity caused by missing or damaged seals so flue gas analyzer sample point cap missing damaged regardless of evidence of leakage of products combustion is immediately dangerous number two air inlet sample point cap missing damaged no evidence of leaking of products of combustion that one's at risk or grommets forming part of the combustion circuit missing damage no evidence of leakage of products combustion again that's classed as at risk but we haven't got that one so if you do open the front cover and the grommets are missing where the cables come through then that would be at risk so what other faults have we got here well we've actually got wood screws holding the collar on and then there's no screws actually holding the collar to the turret and the flue elbow so what does it say about that then so again this comes under 6.6 but if we look in the comments to the side of it they say it's at risk but it says evidence that the chimney flu system is inadequately supported and or incorrectly jointed this includes inadequate clipping missing clips screws or sagging allowing movement of the chimney flue in such an extent that it may cause it to become unsafe and or breach of integrity is likely so that using the wrong screws and screws missing you could not risk it as well but two at risks don't make an id only two not to current standards on fluid makes and at risk and if it's an open fluid of appliance now you get one fault and an open fluid appliance on its flute system then that automatically becomes at risk so two nuts current standards are room sealed is at risk just one fault on open fluid is at risk now this picture represents you going to service this worcester boiler so when you do your visual inspections of the flu system outside you find this but when you do your flu integrity test the integrity test fails but when you do your sweep test around the flu system in the turret and around the boiler casing it passes so you do not have more than 10 parts per million co coming into the room so are you going to categorize this so this comes under a couple of sections the first one is our good old friends 6.6 so room sealed chimney flute system which are damaged are insecure this is definitely damaged and we would categorize this as at risk because of the damage but i did say it failed its integrity test but when you did the sweet test around the appliance we weren't getting 10 perhaps per million co coming into the room so it's failed it's combustion test so that's on the next page so it's actually coming under 7.6 so failure to achieve satisfactory combustion readings when using an electronic portable combustion gas analyzer now if this was a flu-less appliance according to this it would be id but it's not it's the fluid appliance so it's at risk also 7.7 says fluidless or fluid appliances with visual signs of incomplete combustion at the main burner and or with the heat exchanger fluidless would be ideal and fluid would be at risk but it passed its combustion test it was integrity test but it failed so this one we would be classing it as at risk simple as that did you get it right now this picture represents again you're going to service the boilers you can see here from the two flues on the right hand side so is there anything here what would make the system at risk id or not to current standards or even would you need to redo or anybody how have we got on with this one so this as you can see here the two flues well there's quite a few flues are terminating in this covered passageway so there is 6.3 in our igem g11 which says our chimney flues terminated into a semi-enclosed area eg covered passageway arguing it says following an assessment in accordance with the guidance given in tb-007 so technical bulletin 007 it is found that the combustion products are entering the building then we will be classifying this as immediately dangerous or there is a risk of the combustion products maybe entering the building it would be at risk and i think there's a pretty big chance of combustion products entering this building and then obviously we would have to play thrown in and do a sweep test around there also if that was classed as a carport then the flute would need to be 1200 mil away from an opening to a building but that would be not to current standards wouldn't it unless you've got products combustion entering the room and then it will become id so until you've done the checks on this situation we would be at risking it or id it so just racking up to things like this we can't just automatically assume this id because it's been there a long time we would be out risking it and obviously doing sweep tests to see whether it becomes id or not so what did you put for that one bit of a tricky one to finish with and it's one where a lot of gas engineers would get into an argument with you about well i think a lot of these gas engineers would get into an argument about so it's going to be interesting to see what gets put down in the comments even though i have been reading it out of igem t11 this picture represents you going to do a tightness test before any gas work where you're going to be breaking into the gas ways so as you can see we've got something missing within 600 of the meter or before the first branch so what would you categorize this as so from igem g11 edition 2 you can see it's 3.19 equal potential bonding not installed or inadequate eg not secure electrical issue c class 3 3 2 in this procedure we'll have a look at that in a minute but then it also says see right so if we do look right it says leave a bonding notice informing the responsible person that the equal potential bonding work should be checked or carried out by an electrical competent person for further guidance see gas safe registered technical bulletin 102. basically we're classifying this as ncs not to current standards so let's find out what this 332 is now the iet wiring regulations and british standards 7671 and the gas safety installation and use regulations 1998 which was amended in 2018 states that gas pipes should be earth bonded now let's read you this 3.32 from the igem g11 unsafe situations procedure it says regulations 18 2 of the gas safety installation and use regulations place a duty on a gas engineer to notify the responsible person that equal potential bonding may need to be connected to a gas installations in domestic premises so basically what he's saying is if you rack up to somebody's house and there's no earth bonding because we are not electricians we need to let the responsible person or the homeowner or the landlord or whatever that we need earth bonding and i'll show you what we need to do in a minute with that but there is a note here it says where non-metallic non-conductive egpe service pipes service pipelines enter the building and then connect to metallic pipes within the building the metallic pipes within the building do not require protective bonding so this is where gas engineers and electricians kind of say earth bonding's not needed if we've got plastic pipe coming in our gas pipeline is plastic coming into the property but that's all well and good if you've got mcbs in our cds so miniature circuit breakers and residual current devices then if anything happens if you've got straight current then they'll trip but we've got no protection when we're cutting into a gas pipe so if there was a straight current or voltage going through this gas pipe then we could create spark and could create an explosion so we should be using our temporary continuity bonds to protect us and obviously our non-contact volunteer indicates it but why doesn't it need earth bonding now that's what i don't care anyway i will read on it it says where required the purpose of equal potential bonding is to ensure that gas installations or the metallic services and parts within the premises remain safe under electrical fault conditions where bonding is necessary it should preferably be connected within 600 mil of the outlet of the gas meter before the branch or where the meeting is fitted outside the building as nearest points to each entry of the pipe work inside the building before any branch so if you have got an outside meter box then if you can see the gas pipe on the inside you put it on the inside rather than the outside where a gas engineer cannot confirm that adequate bonding arrangements were necessary or exist hse guidance is that the responsible person be notified in writing of the requirement of equal tension bonding this can be achieved by leaving a bonding notice as described in bs6891 which advises that the bonding be checked carried out by an electrical competent person so do we need to put bonding on or don't we need to put bonding on well because we're not electricians we just need to make the customer aware and then we need to make sure that we're checking there isn't a straight voltage without non-contact voltage indicator and we also need to use our temporary continuity bonds to keep us safe if you disagree with me put it down in the comments down below but what is this notice then so we advise and we carry these stickers which you can buy off the internet which you will leave at the gas meter so you can have a stick it on the meter if you want or you can stick it in the meter box if it's outside as long as it can be read and easily seen by the person in charge the owner the tenant the landlord whoever so that's what we need to use we need to use one of these electrical bonding notices because remember we're not electricians we're gas engineers so this short video clip shows an engineer confirming that there is let by on an ecv while carrying out a tightness test but there is no smell of gas within the property at all so how would we categorize an ecv passing with no smell of gas so according to igem g11 edition 2 it's 3.7 it says let buy on an ecv without the smell of gas we would categorize it as at risk but obviously if there was a smell of gas then we would be deeming it as immediately dangerous because we won't be able to turn off the gas to stop the smell or the leak how do we deal with this situation so let's go across to the other side of the book and find out what we should be doing now the other side of the page says notify the gas emergency contact center or in the case of lpg notify the gas supplier it then says see contact list on table 2 which is at the front of the book and gives you all the phone numbers it then says make safe as described in igem up1 series of procedures so basically if we add a cap for the ecv we would be putting that on and we could even be reconnecting the anaconda and then ringing cayden of the lpg supplier to come out and change the ecv before we'd be allowed to do any work on it because there was no smell of gas obviously slightly different if there is a smell of gas and cadence will have to act a little bit quicker than they normally do now this next scenario represents you going to do a service of a new condensing boiler and because you go through into the living room and according to igem g11 appendix 5 you have actually encountered this gas appliance you see this staining above the top of this radiant gas fire so what is this staining and what would you classify this situation as remember you're not there to work on this fire you're there to work on the boiler now according to igem g11 page 21 1.5 where no work is being undertaken on an appliance but there is visual signs of spillage or leakage of products of combustion from the appliance and or chimney flue and there is no evidence that the problem has been corrected we must class it as id so that means we would have to investigate it and if we didn't have time to investigate it we must disconnect from the gas supply with the customer's permission issue a warning notice and stick on our sticker and if the customer refuses you to disconnect it from the gas supply then you must get in touch with caden and they'll come and do it now this picture represents you going to do a landlord report and when you're doing your visual inspection of your pipe work you find this gas pipe is installed right next to a plug socket so what would we categorize this as now looking through igem g11 you won't find this scenario anywhere so if you can't find the scenario in here then basically you can class it as not to current standards so how far does a gas pipe need to be away from a plug socket well it's 25 mil away from a plug socket or an electric cable or 150 mil away from a consumer unit is there anything we could do in this situation well we could protect the gas pipe by using electrical tape and go 25 mil above and below the socket will look a bit shocking is the gas pipe showing any signs of damage or corrosion no then it's not current standards but you would note it down on your paperwork that uh it's too close to the socket and it should be moved because it'd probably be easy to move the gas pipe than it was to move the socket now this picture represents you going to do a landlord report and you find there is a flu-less space heater now the flu-less space heater passes all its tests including its flue gas analyzer test but you find this ventilation which is also the correct ventilation installed in this location in close proximity to this fluidly space heater so are we going to classify this so you can find this on page 38 of ygm g11 paragraph 9.6 flawless space heaters installed in a room or internal space where the air vent is incorrectly positioned and we will be classifying it as at-risk so there's some notes to the side which i think we need to know so let's have a look at these notes so the notes say refer to the manufacturer's installation instructions and bs5871 part four for the correct positioning for further guidance see gas safe registered technical bulletin08 so basically what they're saying now is these vents need to be at least one meter away from the appliance now why is it important that these vents need to be at least one meter away from a flu-less space heater well basically what they're saying is or what they have found over the years of having these appliances is that if the vent is too close to the appliance it can keep the asd working so it can supply the air for combustion and keeping the asd on but it could actually vitiate the rumor so that's the main reason why these vents need to be away from the appliance flow of a meter they also say split them 50 50. so if you need 100 centimeters squared up to 2.7 kilowatts um split it 50 50. one high one low less chance of getting blocked and age convection and all the rest of it i've got loads of videos on fluidless space heaters so i'll have a watch of them so that's why they need to be a meter away so the asd or the atmospheric sensing device doesn't stay on if the room gets initiated now this picture represents you going to do a tightness test of a landlord report so this is the meter you're confronted with this meter is installed inside the property so is there anything wrong here so page 23 igmg g11 2.9 medium pressure or higher fed meter installation located within a domestic premises we will be classifying this as that risk anyway we've also got some notes so let's have a look at the notes so in these notes it says in all cases inform the relevant gas transporter or gas supplier as appropriate who will send a competent person to site to undertake further investigations for further guidance see gas safe registered technical bulletin03 now this picture represent you going to service a boiler and you found that another engineer has bypassed this high limit stat so igem g11 addition to page 35 7.4 appliance gas controls and safety devices that affect the safe operation of an appliance which are in operative failing to danger or are disabled we would be classing this as id well let's have a look at these notes and see what it says there so these notes say examples of devices include flame supervision devices or fsds regulators spillage monitoring systems eg ttbs or asds air pressure switches and high limits thermostats etc so that's why this has become id is because it's been bypassed but because it has been bypassed we should also be ridoring the engineer who's bypassed this safety device and left this boiler running so as well as being id this is also rid of reportable now let's finish off with this picture and let's see exactly how many faults you can find with this open fluid boiler if there are any faults that is so give you a few seconds to have a look and see what you can come up with now how many faults have you spotted behind me here then should we start at the bottom here on the uh above the draft diverter can you see that the actual appliance adapter isn't sealed to the draft diverter so that's the first one next one not 600 rise to the first bend what angle have we got on the bends so we've got two 90 degree elbows which is not allowed have you noticed the damage on the 90 degree elbow we're showing signs of spillage have you noticed it's painted as well and also the signs of spillage on the wall as well what are we going to classify this as let's take the faults on the flu system first so we've got not 600 rise we've got 90 degree bends we've got painted and we've got damage now all these different scenarios as obviously as long as products are combustion are covered into the room we will classify them as at at-risk igem g11 page 31 is and it's 5.9 it says existing open flue chimney systems installed with one or more defects likely to affect the safe and effective performance of the chimney and flu system and it says we will classify them as at-risk now on the notes it says examples of installation defects likely to affect open chimney flue performances include but i'm not limited to inadequate vertical rise to the first bend so the not 600 inadequately supported well you can't see any clips on this 90 degree bends yeah we've got two 90 degree bends non-compliant termination position well you don't know where that is incorrect use of chimney flue material eg exposed chimney flue liner so if you do go to an open fluid boiler and this flue liner on show that's also at risk the inadequately sized chimney flue pipe it's the right size an unsuitable terminal fitting again you can't see the terminal at the bottom it says wear one or more such defects or defects is or are identified the engineer shall assess the safety of the gas installation and decide whether the deficiencies are so serious it warrants the installation being classified as at-risk rar what's our big problem we've got signs of spillage so what does that make it yeah it makes it immediately dangerous i think if you racked up to this boiler a new story in this state hopefully you would be id in it and obviously if you did a fluid flow test and spillage and found out it was failing then it would be definitely id now you can see from this video that igem g11 edition 2 doesn't give you every scenario that you might come across as a gas engineer so there could be times then when you need to categorize something but the book won't help you but just remember if it's spilling gas if it's spilling products of combustion if it's got a safety device has been made inoperative if it should be fluid if it's not if it's gone the wrong gas so if it's lpg on a natural gas or natural gas and an lpg these are immediately dangerous situations if it's anything else and you can't find it in the book then it could be not to current standards it's as simple as that so use your judgment because like i've said in this video you are the engineer on site and you are the engineer who's solely responsible for making the decision if you can't make a decision the book also says you can seek further advice i.e gas safe i.e the manufacturer of the appliance and there's been a lot of comments about that first uh picture why do you think i chose it anyway that all the wind could be blowing in the right direction when you're testing it for it not to come into the building but two days later it could be blowing in another direction it's all if butts and maybes okay if the flu goes outside then it's very unlikely that those products are combustion are going to come back into the building unless it's getting into the property whether it's coming in through the window whether it's coming in through an air vent or an extractor fan or whatever but you're making the decision there and then it's like when you do a flu flow test if you do a flu flow test and a spillage test on an open fluid appliance it can pass the day you're doing it but three weeks down the line we could have adverse weather conditions and it could fail so as long as you've got proof of what you're doing and the results of what you've got then why are you going to be worried about being prosecuted because a lot of it seems to be you over egg the pudding because you're scared of being prosecuted i would be more scared of the customer having a got me in some situations so it's major important that we actually classify these faults correctly and promptly but if you do think it's immediately dangerous and you've got evidence to prove it then follow the procedure and if you think it's not to current standards follow the procedures and if you think it's at risk follow the procedures because at the end of the day guys it's down to the engineer on site and what you're seeing at that time not that it could blow in products combustion three years down the line because the wind changes it's all about what it's doing while you're doing the tests at that time so if you missed this first video then you can catch it here but thanks for watching and i'll catch you on the next one cheers

Channel: Tomkat Gas Training

Views: 30,775

Keywords: igen g 11, item g 11 edition 2, gas safe situations, gas safe unsafe situations procedure, gas safe, gas unsafe situations procedure, gas regulations

Id: baKcFH1-SLo

Length: 39min 21sec (2361 seconds)

Published: Mon May 02 2022