Hydrogen in Energy Transition Webinar

good morning everyone welcome to the webinar uh on behalf of croatian academy of technical sciences of which i'm the member and the creation hydrogen association of which i'm the founder and president i organized this webinar on hydrogen in energy transition i also must mention the faculty of electrical engineering mechanical engineering and novel architecture at university of split and university of mechanical engineering and naval architecture at university of zagreb who are the co-organizers and of course i must not only mention but thank the center for sustainable energy water and environment systems uh who did everything to organize and run this conference hopefully smoothly hydrogen has come to a center of interest lately even in croatia we have over 200 uh registered for this conference which shows a really a great interest on hydrogen uh when i started working on hydrogen that was about 30 something years ago it was a pure science fiction but today 30 years later we are seriously talking on the highest level about the deployment of hydrogen technologies and a widespread deployment and now in croatia everybody is talking about hydrogen i mean as the president of hydrogen association i receive a phone calls almost on a daily basis people asking what can i do how can i uh get involved so that's that's really very exciting uh we have prepared a very interesting program i hope so and i would especially like to thank our foreign speakers who immediately accepted to talk at this conference i didn't have to twist their arms uh so without further ado i would like to start with the program and the first in our program is mr yorko hajimarkakis he's a secretary general of hydrogen europe and i'm sure he will tell you all about uh hydrogen in europe and thanks very much for the invitation to this uh for us important uh webinar i hope you can see already my screen my name is uh as you mentioned yoga shots makakis secretary general of hydrogen europe and uh you can see here just a second uh to get into yep you can see here so to say the the membership of hydrogen europe it there are also from from croatian side rather scientific members but this is growing um friday this week so tomorrow we will have 250 members this is quite remarkable i started five years ago and it was even five years ago more science fiction than than reality but this has changed of course today hydrogen has become systemic and hydrogen has become also real at least in the in the political discussion at least also in the planning and project engineering and i will try to explain where we are at the moment and which are exactly the challenges for this year 2021 because um it will be one of the most decisive years for hydrogen uh in the in the near future um now first of all i would like to just congratulate and this will be taken up by uh bart b berg later on um that we also witness this uh new partnership that we have hydrogen europe uh and um well the the hydrogen europe research we will enjoy another seven years of research innovation i think bart will elaborate on that that's his speciality and he's the uh the executive director of the partnership the old partnership and the new partnership now what did we do just to describe how we got there and indeed exactly one year ago we came up with the vision paper that you see here on the left hand side which is called a two times gigawatt initiative it was quite visionary a year ago today it's the plan of the european commission and what we wanted to do is to show that basically ramping up the main technology that you need in order to produce hydrogen in a decarbonized way namely electrolysis will be the basis of having a disruptive change towards a net zero emission society and economy um and this paper to be honest uh was doubted so even a year ago there were even in the membership and even in the electrolyzer manufacturing membership people who said wow that's that's too visionary but then the pandemic broke out exactly one year ago we organized our last physical meeting and from then on things had to be online like this meeting here people got used to it at that time it was maybe new however a few weeks later the executive vice president of the european union mr franz zimmermann timmermans responsible for the climate agenda of the european union called and said hey guys what about your 2 times 40 gigawatt plan is it a good plan for the european green deal is it a good plan for a change because we see that economy goes down and we need to use this disruptive situation like a first second world war like any major crisis in order to get things into a new order and we said yes and we also tried then to build up upon this 40 gigawatt a match making program between supply of hydrogen so what does it mean what can you do with this volume 2 times 40 40 in europe and another 40 in the neighboring countries like ukraine morocco but also mena region saudi arabia what can you do with that and fortunately with the help of bart b berg and his joint undertaking we had a study of demand of hydrogen demand and so we could match it we could bring together the cost so to say the the demand and the supply and could calculate the cost we came up with a 430 billion euro demand for the whole prod project i will describe it later on so you see where we are the most important point is that our membership and the ceos of these companies committed to it they sub they signed up to it they said we support this plan and that's made up so to say the the road map towards uh european clean hydrogen strategy we of course also accompanied that with some recommendations for the regulatory aspects because to build up something needs also regulatory aspect the main tool for that and you see i'm standing in front of a banner of the logo of this association or this alliance is the so-called european clean hydrogen alliance with the aim to kick-start this eu hydrogen industry to achieve the climate goals it was established 8th of july last year or launched the very same day when the european hydrogen strategy was launched and it shall implement the hydrogen strategy now what is the goal the goal is to have um today we we would see approximately 500 companies um but now we have much more than 1 000 members in that alliance already so the thousand companies that are interested we see them already now but you will see some consolidation up to until 2050. so it will be a part of the shift towards zero emission a part of implementation of the european green deal the clear target that was set in the european hydrogen strategy was to build up six gigawatts of electrolyzer capacity until 2024. that's quite uh ambitious uh because um that's now so we need to start immediately uh and uh every conference that we do together with the european commission we can see the pressure they put on us because they are under pressure they they set themselves this goal that is derived of course from the 2 times 40 goal and you see it there it's now part of the european strategy 40 gigawatt in europe until 2013. what what is the main goal is of course the achievement is to abate in the energy system but not not only energy also industry and mobility that is why i cannot disconnect it and i'll come back to that uh to abate co2 emissions uh so 9 million tons per year and as of 24 already and 90 million tons per year as of 2030 and of course growing number and it goes without saying that this investment needs uh money uh and uh we are not at the 430 billion uh because the hop 430 billion include of course all the investments into renewable energy or other decarbonizing energies like pyrolysis so the 430 is not just hydrogen technology however only hydrogen is foreseen by the commission as of 5 to nine billion until 2024 here i have to say already the member states have earmarked money in their national hydrogen strategies um and we can see that this figure that you see on the hand side 26 to 44 billion has already been reached so 46 billion have already been earmarked by member states uh until 2030 and it's not all member states it's just eight member states now what we will do and what we need in order to ramp up these projects is a financial engineering what you see here is different possibilities funds but also tools to do it because different aspects will need different partners but we'll speak later on about the fcgu and the future of this partnership uh i will be tomorrow morning for instance in a workshop with the member states croatia included with on ipcei you see that is the move arm here the ipci is the important project of common european interest i'll also refer back to it now let me just jump into our blueprint the 430 billion blueprint and you will see here already how this um translates into the different fields and it's interesting to see also the distinction between private sector and public sector and you would see that of course the public sector plays a very important role so you need the commitment that is why in the european clean hydrogen alliance commissioners but also ministers are part of it you need public money at the same time it leverages of course private investment and what you see is that on the production side there is a lot of course and most of the production investments are associated with additional 150 960 gigawatt of renewables in order to make 40 gigawatt electrolyzer a reality you need a lot of more additional renewable energy that's why in the european clean hydrogen alliance we are working closely together with our friends from the renewable energy the electrolysis represents seven megatons uh in in this plan uh and low carbon hydrogen so other technologies i mentioned pyrolysis i could mention atr the auto thermal um also 9.6 megaton so it's also not to be disregarded infrastructure here you see um also investments also by private uh by the private sector where by we calculated the regulated bodies like tsos um to the private sector and of course the end use uh end use means uh in industry in mobility but also in the energy system you have also the share here all in all you see how the investments break down on the right hand side i'm not going to it you can see uh the co2 reduction from the proposed hydrogen end use in million tons and you can see that in steel this ratio is quite high although in steel production where you go from coke coal based um production of steel to the dri so the direct reduction of iron ore um but here you have a quite high uh abatement rate which makes sense in order to invest into the steel let me come to the next slide here you see and i will be happy to share these slides with all of you so you can later on also see how this breaks down but in the infrastructure where we need investments of course to store hydrogen but also to transport hydrogen by uh backbones so pipelines and via port facilities and the storage will happen in depleted oil and gas fields but especially in salt salt caverns here you see how these investments break down and we also see that it's quite a considerable part of private investment involved the fueling infrastructure will play also a role but compared to especially the storage aspects which is important for the energy system because that's the main role that hydrogen can play to balance the difficulties that exist because of more renewables renewables are intermittent so they create uh frictions to the grid uh sometimes you have too much sometimes you have not enough and that can be balanced by seasonal storage or by long-term storage using hydrogen and that is the the major achievement um i would say of of hydrogen as an enabler of others if you if we look at the end use related investments so in which fields we will use hydrogen so grid balancing you can you can see that down there is not the biggest one it plays a role i know that this is a field of special interest and you also see that again here in steele you have clear investment and you have co2 reduction that are in the steel case quite high you see that on the right hand side so green steel provides the most efficient decarbonization opportunity which is why we are very happy to see announcements of steel companies not only to join the hydrogen alliance but also to start immediately uh liberty steel it's a it's a london-based still london-based company that produces to 60 steel in in europe has now announced to become net zero until 2030 already that's very challenging but that also means that we need to react immediately but also aviation is a is a very important part and road and maritime transport not going into detail now but especially in aviation we had already a first flight with e kerosene from amsterdam to paris using synthetic kerosene that has been produced on the basis of renewable hydrogen and biogenic or circular co2 in a flight from klm air france from amsterdam to paris we also have clear plans for the decarbonization of the road uh the use of roads here you see the 10 e and the 10 t network 10 t is the trans-european networks for transport this here is the tanti route from sicily to sweden and norway why did we choose this as a as an example because the companies that will produce fuel cell trucks trucks that can use hydrogen immediately uh in fuel cells come from these countries so it's the the companies that have announces are volvo and daimler that created a joint venture uh called cell centric and they have already started to produce fuel cells for trucks and at the same time evico from italy so sweden germany and italy are so to say the countries that host the oems that will produce these trucks and uh this 10t core network corridor scanmed scandinavian mediterranean um has uh some elements that we that you can see here on that on that slide so the fuel consumption would be seven kilometers sorry seven kilo per hundred kilometers uh you have an annual mileage of 120 000 kilometers and we want to have 78 000 trucks uh in the next uh years on that road uh here you can see how this would translate into uh 23 and 2030 um and the capex that you see here will be needed to be invested and co-invested by the public and that's where we are working uh upon at the moment that we want to get in the projects in the alliance but also in the ipci tool lots of these trucks supported we had excellent talks also to renault and we are looking also forward to reno's contribution to that it's a step-by-step approach uh so what we expect until 2030 is 39 so 40 000 heavy duty vehicles 218 hydrogen refuelling stations with six tons of hydrogen per day capacity we see a demand of 328 000 tons of renewable hygiene per year 4.6 megatons of co2 emissions per year well and the cost for the only the uh hydro reforming stations are already 1 billion so you see that we have quite substantially done our maths and are now building up these projects uh within this alliance and within the ipci um i would i would say and stop here in order to get some of questions because uh i know that uh some of your members are interested in questions and uh that's why i would be ready to answer them uh chat or directly as you wish okay thank you yoga very much uh i don't see any questions but uh just a comment to the audience that if you want to ask a question type it in the chat and then we will read it here and uh uh the speakers will will answer uh in the meantime while we are waiting is there any questions i can ask a question i noticed that uh uh uh around your slides there was a transportation and then there was a heating hydrogen's rolling heating can you explain a little bit what uh what is there included in the hydrogen use in heating yes um we have um at one of our round tables at the european clean hydrogen alliance was called heating in the past but they wanted to rename themselves to buildings so what is meant is to use hydrogen especially for basically for fuel cells in buildings for um for the creation of heat but also electricity um let me give you an example a very simple example which is basically a first business case you might have heard that the big data centers and they are they are consuming a lot of electricity at the moment especially because of these video conferences but they are in in a danger to be expelled from city from cities so amsterdam has expelled i think the amazon center because it was consuming too much of energy what is done then is you can locate the data center very close to a high to a pipeline at the moment it's natural gas pipelines and with fuel cells you can produce both electricity and heat and this is the plan there are some companies i would mention in this case especially bosch that are producing exactly the stationary fuel cells that in the modular on a modular basis can uh produce as much of electricity as the starter center needs at the same time you have heat as a production and this will then help buildings so um and we are very much advocating as hydrogen europe this system approach where the heat also of the data center will be used for buildings so that's that's the the idea yeah thank you thank you uh there is a question it says is blue hydrogen still gold in the meantime while green hydrogen capacities are being achieved yeah that's a very good question because um basically people um think the big discussion is between blue and green um we never liked this color approach because in the end hydrogen has no color of course the origin of hydrogen is important and most important point is the carbon content that is why we as hydrogen europe try to define together with the commission a threshold of carbon content this week the commissioner for energy mrs kadri simpson has mentioned a threshold it's not carved in stone yet but she mentioned a decarbonization rate of 80 percent so that means that most of the so-called blue hydrogen technologies like uh smr steam methane reforming plus s ccs the carbon capture storage they lead to 60 so you can see already that they wouldn't qualify for the long run they might qualify for the short run and that is why it's of utmost importance to have a clear threshold could even be 90 i don't exclude that because the 80 or 90 is it's a question of political discussion and decision but then it's up to the regulators to talk about lock-in effects any technology that does not reach the threshold of 80 might help now take the take the port of rotterdam which is emitting nearly one-third of all the emissions of the whole netherlands because of refineries mainly if you use blue hydrogen there or the technologies that you have you can reduce at least by 60 percent now because the technology is ready but they won't get certificates for this hydrogen after 25 after 30 it's a political discussion needs to be discussed and that's how you stop lock-in effects so and everybody would then invest into only high decarbonizing uh technologies like electrolysis like atr like pyrolysis to mention a few okay uh also one very appropriate question uh have you been thinking about some joint venture with european battery storage association or similar in order to increase and develop mutual applications well there is the battery alliance which is uh so to say the the sister uh of the hydrogen alliance uh and of course we are to a certain extent also cooperating however i would have said the battery lines is the big brother of hydrogen alliance it's not true they have less than half of our members so the the the interest into hydrogen is much bigger why is it so because it's more than downstream batteries is rather downstream whereas hydrogen is upstream midstream and downstream so it encompasses the whole value chain and that is what makes it more complex but also broader and battery i i don't want to preempt any any discussion but battery in the long future will be an integral part of a hydro based economy so what do i want to say it's not either or it's this is stupid this is elon musk this is elon musk stupidity to say who sell our food cell this is marketing and he did well he became the richest man on earth not for a long time you will see that but it was marketing for us it's not bullying somebody out for us it's the combination of all technologies and hydrogen can enable batteries to become more efficient i mean i'm driving a hydrogen car and of course i have a 40 kilowatt hours battery a buffer battery uh that helps me very much to to manage better the energy flow but it's it's not heavy and it's not a plug-in it's it's uh recuperating from uh from driving so it's a perfect combination this is what we thrive for we thrive for a perfect system coming system efficiency also material efficiency by the way uh everybody knows that hydrogen is cyclical and also that fuel cells have a very very few part of rare earths mainly platinum and it's only it's only two percent the rest is stainless steel in batteries you have a different field you have a different approach you have a lot of rare earths and scars elements and this is how we can use them batteries only for cases where it makes sense so small distances and not use it for for cases where it doesn't make sense so material efficiency element efficiency will also become a a very important part of the european reindeer thank you okay uh thank you i think we have to keep the schedule so i guess the internet connection is unstable can you hear me yeah okay thank you very much for your presentation uh there are some questions but i will leave those questions we can ask other speakers as well you don't have to answer every one of them i know you have a very busy schedule so thank you for uh coming to this uh webinar okay uh the next speaker will be mr bart booker he's a director of the future halogen joint undertaking or it will be called clean hydrogen partnership or whatever bart will tell us about the new organization bart it's your turn thank you very much frano and uh thank you also for the introduction and it's a good opportunity now to explain a little bit what we have been doing in the fcsu and what we will do in the next partnership which was announced just last week i also prepared a presentation and if everything going right right you should see my presentation now is that okay you see it do you see my presentation yes we see okay great right so um just to explain a little bit who we are so uh we are a public private partnership um we have supported so far now uh 285 projects we supported that for just a little bit over 1 billion euro since this is a public private partnership we also expect a similar amount from the private members so since 2008 when fcsju was uh launched we have now uh spent publicly and privately together about 2 billion euro you see our members i mean we have highs in europe we heard just your goal but they have now already 250 members i continuously need to update my slide and then also hygiene europe research is another association 83 members in the middle we have the european commission which is a very important member because they give us of course the money that we can use to support all those projects we're working on energy transporting but also very important on cross-cutting activities which is about standardization safety and education um one of the activities we did which was quite successful was the hydrogen valleys and working with regions we believe strongly that working with regions is very important to boost the whole hydrogen awareness in in europe i believe that also the regions were very instrumental to put hydrogen so high at the agenda at many in europe but also at many national governments because regions are first of all close to citizens citizens are asking for solutions to their local elected people and these local people need free to come up with solutions so that's why we are working with more almost with 100 regions and cities in europe uh also in croatia of course we have uh cities and or regions are working with us as a split and the county of uh split and dalmatia um some of those regions they said well we will uh we would like to go faster and so they assembled themselves in european hydrogen valley's partnership i think at the meantime there are already 40 regions now joining these are regions really they say there's a lot of potential for job creation in our region a lot of potential for growth and that's why they wanted to go faster and they assembled themselves with this partnership on the other hand we had regions that are not yet so uh advanced in this technology that's why we launched the program development assistance program and you can see here we have also zagreb being part of this project development system program it was launched last year we have quite a lot of interest there and i can tell you that this will be repeated so after summer we will launch again a project development assistance program really to help the regions to to bring their ideas which is not yet very mature to bring this really to a matured level so that they can go with their project proposal to national regional or european level for funding uh basically what we are doing in this project development is just we pay a consultant to to help them and in the middle i mean i was very happy last year that our president ursula van der leyen she said that the next generation eu which is basically the recovery fund after the when the pandemic will be over they really want to invest a lot of money in the economy uh so that we are back to uh before uh pandemic level um on growth and so hydrogen's you believe hygiene valleys in particular is really a big part of that we have already a couple of uh projects in europe on that one is on is big hit northern part of the uk scotland where we produce hydrogen on the islands bring it on the mainland we use it for various uh applications but it's still very it was very small but it was really a good start we said really we want to make a big hydrogen valley in europe we got a competition we put 20 million euro on the table uh northern netherlands uh they won the competition and now they are building uh this hydrogen valley you can see there's a lot of partners we will use it in in many different sectors mobility uh also for storage production and so on and in the industry as well what was first key in such a hydrogen valley is this sector integration we really want to show that all the different sectors meet mobility heating and cooling uh industry they're all connected through the usage of hydrogen where you for example have a central point of production and then you distribute it to all these different users and after that we said well now we have a hydrogen valley why don't we make a hydrogen island and we did last year a competition and i just signed last december a contract with a with a beautiful island of mallorca where they will uh where they decided basically to use hydrogen to decarbonize parts of their island also here same idea sector integration you can see they use it for uh for the injection and gas grid they will use it for heat but also to power buses etc really again very beautiful the sexual integration however heightened values we can also uh think about future hydrogen valleys when we think about making cross-border hydrogen valley so that for example regions that are located close to each other and we can connect them together through such a hydrogen valley we can think about ports locations airports industrial hubs logistical hubs that why not build the first hydrogen city in europe maybe zagreb i don't know um we also work with hydrogen valleys on an international level uh under the flack of mission innovation they have their challenge number eight which is about hydrogen um you can see on this website i have the link there that we gathered around 32 valleys across the globe on this platform what is the purpose is really to exchange learnings to accelerate again the transition to to clean energy by using hydrogen i can tell you it's very successful there's a lot of interest in this website so if you would like to know what's going on uh beyond europe i definitely would recommend you to have a look to that a second thing which was very important in the acceleration of hydrogen in europe was the electrolysis projects that we did um we started 10 years ago in belgium with a 150 kilowatt electrolyzer at that time quite challenging for our industry and what we did in our program was really pushing the boundaries uh really pushing the envelope really to double almost like each time and now we we are at 100 megawatt because last year the european commission together with us we we launched the green deal call uh requesting for a 100 megawatt electrolyzer project and i can tell you that we received 16 proposals which is quite a lot and also shows that basically the industry is ready and that there are also customers for all that hydrogen otherwise for sure they would not make proposals so we are looking forward now to see who will be the winner but i can tell you there are really very beautiful projects in those 16 proposals uh the next is of course to go to a gigawatt scale as you you heard i mean the european commission has a clear target six giga one by 2024 40 gigawatt by 20 30 so we really need to push it further the envelope to go to a gigabyte scale but i believe that we can be quite um [Music] that we can be quite happy to see that within 10 years basically we move it from about 100 kilowatt to uh 100 megawatt of course it was already a part of the discussion or in the q a with a yurgo uh it was about the color of hydrogen we have developed with the project certify a guarantees of origin scheme we have in the meantime already more than 70 000 geos we we have done a lot of piloting projects we have one in france germany belgium and the netherlands different pathways to produce hydrogen and we owed it to them and we give them this geos according to their production pathway the we just signed now a new project which is the third phase certified tree which really has to set up a platform for these pilots for the ju but across europe so in the 27 member states and i also hope that that we will see something happening in uh actually in croatia um we don't do that alone we also in this third phase we we work with the iab which is the association of the issuing bodies um these are all the bodies in europe who who basically assembled themselves and this association also we do so we work together with some regulators in europe uh so interesting regulators in belgium and austria in order to really do this roll out in in certified tree at the same time on the global level we work with ibhi on on the production analysis methodology i mean hygiene can be produced in many different ways but what is very important that globally would agree on a methodology to calculate the co2 footprint still and later on uh the amount of co2 that would be then be the definition for green or blue or even uh other colors i mean we have yellow we have different colors uh durguas recently i heard from pyrolysis so really that doesn't matter at that time this is a political discussion what we need to agree globally among um on authorities is how what is the methodology and the chance to be the same because this is so crucial to really unlock uh the uh unlock also uh cross-border trading um we also work a lot in in in let's say in transportation up from cars forklifts up to aviation we have one project which called hygiene mobility where basically we are putting coordinated among various member states and stakeholders we coordinate where do we put the hydro refueling stations how do we where do we put a fleet of cars in order really again here to accelerate to show that it's possible and you can see that in h2b for example we have almost like 1 400 vehicles that we are supporting we are building uh more than 50 of hygiene refueling stations across those member states uh if you want to know where the where all the hydrogen refueling stations today are in europe and whether they are open in maintenance i mean we have launched a project in the the commission to visualize uh real-time data for each hydrogen fueling station uh you go to the website h2map.eu there you can see uh for example if you want to know about the 700 bar or 350 bar for buses where they are if they are open so this is a tool please use it and we have today around 140 stations in europe and of course uh every week we have uh we're increasing that number we also work on buses uh we have uh so far uh put orders of uh 230 buses of the 295 buses in jife and jf2 this is this is the project names we have already five suppliers uh the first buses are really being delivered in cologne we will have uh also other sites as you can see where we will put buses what is very nice is that by the end of the year and then by end of 2021 all those uh nearly 300 buses need to be put in place so that we can start monitoring uh the results and also because of this big uh scale project this triggered also a lot of other oem's interest and to start working on on hydrogen buses so i believe from the five suppliers we have today probably we will go up to 10 which is good for competition which is good to break down the cost we also work on trucks we have two projects h2 hall and revive uh h2 hall will uh as will be used in the daily operations at carrefour bmw production plans uh by their liquid and so on we will see this next year the first deployment of those trucks on the other hand we also have the refuse trucks it's a bit of a different operation it's back-to-back every day and we have already the first truck deployed as a summary we will deploy 30 trucks in 13 demonstration sites in seven countries what was very important that uh and last year uh during the stake during the european hygiene week the industry committed for to put one hundred thousand trucks at one thousand five hundred hydrogen refueling stations by 2030 in the european union we also work on trades i mean we all know the trains in in germany uh we did a study after that is like okay what is really the business cases you can download to study and um also there were a few recommendations about um further developments or rni that was necessary for trains uh we did that we made a call uh last year and now we have just we will find now the project fch2 rail in spain together with the kaf so they get 10 billion euro to put also in spain a hydrogen train maritime also here a bit similar story uh that we have with the electrolyzers we started really with 50 kilowatt scale and we pushed it now to the multi-megawatt we have now i just awarded in 2020 uh two ships it will be propelled by liquid hydrogen uh two ships in norway uh roll on roll off uh ships so we're really getting here in the megawatt scale and this is i believe very important uh to demonstrate um here again i want to mention clearly that there is no one-size-fits-all we will have different uh fuels i mean it was already mentioned by yerbal for example ammonia but also we can have lohc and also pure hydrogen depending on its application the region where it will be applied and so on also from fuel cell technology we will see pem as wfc and so on still a lot of challenges here we have to scale up the the fuel cells to really to more than 2 megawatt but really to go to 10 20 megawatt scale we need to think about liquid hydrogen storage so a lot of still work to be done here we work on also on ports uh we have the project h2 ports and valencia where we try to put the rich tankers and yard tractors on on fuel cells and then propelled by hydrogen it's a very small project but it's an important project to start and actually the next step is now we are working on the december the clean energy ministerial to build a worldwide hydrogen ports coalition probably by the end of may or beginning of june it will be an announcement of a number of ports uh that will work together on hydrogen uh we will also launch a european uh hydrogen ports coalition i will start a tender process by the end of this month which then will result basically in a consultant that will build a european uh consortia of ports to really make a road map for hydrogen for those ports we're working in aviation uh the project hikarus where basically um we managed there to really demonstrate a fuel cell and a hydrogen tank to be to be built inside the play uh really yeah in a different air pressure environment and what was also important is that the whole uh technology or the fuel cell and basically also the tank was developed according to um aviation standards and that was new we're working further uh we will try to replace the rub air tube by this kind of safety device that gives electricity to to be able to land so we will replace that by a fuel cell also we are looking uh for uh small planes to be uh propelled by uh by hydrogen as you can see here as well this is the project heaven but we said okay this is all very small we need to see it bigger that's why we work with our colleagues in clean sky which is another joint undertaking actually to on a study where we basically concluded that hydrogen propulsion for the big aviation is possible uh we will build a first prototype by 2028 we believe that the cost could be limited the cost of up to 20 dollars per passenger per seat so clearly it is possible and now it's uh it will be to the industry the researcher and the public sector to work together to make it a reality also you saw that france announced that by 2035 they want to have it commercial which is possible but challenging also we can use fuel cell systems for heating and also for electricity in homes uh we have 0.2 1.5 kilowatt size of fuel cells uh you this is the project pace which putting thousands of those units in people's house i can tell you now we have already bought a 10 or i think we have 20 thousands of these devices that sold across europe prices go exam got down thanks to our research that we have done we also look in more commercial type of fuel cells 50 to 200 sign we have one project here in torino it's in a wastewater treatment plant and basically the 175 kilowatt sfc can produce all uh the hydrogen and all the electricity well all the heat that the plant needs and big part of the electricity and then also we can look at to multi megawatt these are projects basically outside of europe this is one in china but also we had one on on the islands uh um so in martinique so we see that the potential for multi-megawatt is rather uh outside of europe we also work a lot on educational activities we train uh young postgraduates young professionals technicians regulators first responders plenty of projects so if you would like to to to get the material uh do not hesitate because we just have launched also at the end of last year the observatory and actually in this observatory there is a section on education and training where you can find all the material at the same time this observer this observatory is doing much more it also covers all the technology in the markets if you want to know for example how many cars we have in europe or how many electrolyzers we have you can all find that their policies regulation codes and standard patents publications funding opportunities everything is in this observatory i think globally i think this is the best uh observatory that exists which is publicly available so use it if you want to know more finally uh very important money where can you get money for your projects well it was already mentioned we will be we will start by the end of the year a new partnership which will be called the clean hydrogen partnership we will work on hydrogen production on hydrogen distribution and end use but mainly the end users will be in heavy duty and industry and so we expect to start by the end of this year november i hope we probably will have a first call in december this year and as it was already announced the budget has increased a lot uh we had an fc8 665 million euro and now from the next partnership we will become a one billion euro partnership um from we will do the first call as i said the december probably 150 million euro immediately followed with a second uh call probably uh the first part of next year um hydrogen will not be only uh be treated by us between hydrogen ju but also in other partnerships like uh processes for planet or chemical sector two zeros more transport waterborne clean ski clean steel clean sky and rail speaks for itself so you see that all those partnerships will now talk will have also hydrogen-funded projects but if you want to know where you should go with your project you can always give us a call there are also other opportunities we have the connecting europe facilities mainly infrastructure to be funded we have the innovation fund this is really for the scaling up the ipsa was already mentioned by yorgo but also do not forget the next generation eu now every member state is making their plans how to recover for from the pandemic and and kick-start the economy again and i can tell you that hydrogen is a part of it and i believe also you as an association in croatia for hydrogen will be very good to get into discussions with your government to put really ambitious uh projects on hydrogen in this next generation eu final message well we had a first european hygiene week last year which was amazing i mean we had more than 10 000 people for six from 63 countries joining in and so we will have a second one it will uh at the same time also the launch of our next joint undertaking we held on the 29th of november to the third of december i would say be there but it's a bit difficult to say be there we don't know how the pandemic will go but i would say for sure log in thank you very much for your attention and i'm available for questions now thank you bart this was very informative i don't see any questions right now okay there is one are there any mature projects on solid hydrogen storage um well we have a few of those uh projects i'm i'm not sure what you call it mature i don't think it's yet mature to be very honest but there is a lot of uh we have a couple of research projects in that area i do believe that there might be a potential in some let's say in some areas to have hygiene solid hydrogen storage i do see potential there but it will be like probably this i guess okay so another question that was left from the previous is do we have a developed methodology to calculate carbon footprint for each technology for hydrogen production well i think i answered that in a way so we have with certify we are doing that uh i have to say that it's not yet for every um every hydrogen production method um we will certify three include more uh hydrogen production methodologies uh and and create a standard for that so we have i think now i guess five or six already different pathways that we we made a methodology i think we will go now to 10 or 15 of them so okay thank you as uh i don't see any questions i will thank you one more time for your presentation and we'll go further next speaker will be professor robert steinberger wilkins and i asked him to tell us more about hydrogen r d because as a professor i'm also concerned about what's going to happen if we spend all the money on the deployment uh are we gonna have any money to do research and what should we be researching in in hydrogen in next years so robert the floor is yours i'll just share my screen yes so um i slightly expanded the topic at looking at the um the relationship between mass rollout and research in a way so this is not a sort of challenge to yoga and but it's just discussions we've had in the past already further expanded um just hang on so just two slides of what we do in birmingham so i'm head of the um center for fuel cell and hydrogen research in birmingham uh we're about 50 academics we're the largest group easily in the uk concentrating on these topics in one of the largest uk uh university groups in the world and due to the size we cover all the topics from hydrogen production from renewables to sustainable hydrogen production um that also goes into this direction of all kinds of colors that don't really help apart from green but also low in high temperature fuel cells and the main application is is vehicles we also run this teachi masters program i won't come back to in the end now just in general when you introduce new technologies you start with blue sky research then you there's some research interest might move out of universities to research centers then industry starts collaborating that moves to the industry laboratory you have product development and then market rollout that's clear but if you look at the time scale that will take a long time from the first messages that american scientists have found something in the lab to actually seen this as a as a product it can take very long and that's the only true statements i think i've ever heard from elon musk was when he warned that his new batteries would take longer than some people anticipated so and this has always been reflected in the way the joint undertaking has been working so this is the previous one approach slightly changed later so based on long-term breaker breakthrough research going to technological development as you could call it then also laying a foundation of regulatory arrangements then the demonstrations and the market support which was outside of the scope of the joint undertaking and if you map that out as process so you start with design ideas you have a prototype you verify that you have some field testing and then you roll it out and the time scale of that as i said 10 to 20 years but in reality once you get to verification 10 years have passed already so you're talking about technology that essentially is 10 years old and by the time it's rolled out it's 20 years old so in between you have to start working the next generation because after 20 years you don't start from scratch thinking about what is the next you do that alongside in parallel so you have a second strand going on and effectively once that has reached half time you start the next one so you have various trends going on in parallel while you're rolling out one technology you're already developing the next and the next but one and that's important and that's where research comes in and that's how research works together with technology rollout so there's clearly a role for science and for industry and you can also map this on the technology readiness level but also the market religious level which often is forgotten and i've just put a number of projects uh items here that was the fch program in 2018 i believe so you can see very so funded or at least topics in the call of the joint undertaking at the time so very basic things like solar thermolysis also the normative pre-normative research next generation projects things that were going more into the realm of prototypes and field tests and demonstration and then there was the the large demonstrations and sometimes you did think this is not really a demonstration it should be called a prototype verification and demonstration i'll comment more further and then of course there's all the manufacturing manufacturability is i'll come back to that in a moment cost reduction building the supply chain just as important as the as being focused on the rollout so just to illustrate things that have happened in the past um we've had a development of very good 300 250 300 kilowatt chp units based on natural gas in the 1990s this was a product built by utc or on c which had a rollout of anything between 300 and 500 i found different numbers there every single demonstration project at the time was equipped with this unit and they also had a map forward so that was then when essentially they stopped building them around 2000 because they didn't see a market prospect then there was such a mark public demand because nothing else was available that they actually started building them again i had a plan for cost reduction and just to point out the largest part of cost reduction here is something i'll come back to later so materials manufacturing um and what then happened was the projected cost reduction curve which you'll see in all the studies everything done also uh for the joint undertaking so the cost reduction for uh residential heating units um which roland did a couple of years back they all follow this pathway but which actually happened was the cost came down and then went up again because you find issues with lifetime you have to reinvest into materials you might find you want to add some equipment you want to make it more efficient want to make it safer so the cost does not naturally always go down and this could have been avoided i'll come back to that in a bit another example on mtu building the molten carbonate fuse cells there were quite a lot of them around the middle of the millennium 2005 2006 and then they hit the wall because they could not build anything that was that had a lifetime beyond five years and what was very peculiar about the mcfc developments was there was no scientific base essentially all the companies involved in this so that was unsalted it was mtu it was fuel cell energy in the u.s essentially they refused to work with universities they did not want cooperation they wanted to keep this in-house and last example the cute bus project a huge investment by the eu so a huge project a lot of money and that's why i question these big projects and always being bigger um we need also to think for what is the money being spent for and what is the midterm aim so in this case 33 buses employed all over europe it was the first project of its kind i was involved right at the beginning very successful but to date so that's now 20 years daimler who built one of these buses is not offering an uh commercial product they just refused to do so they're now i think announcing it for 2023 or 25. so effectively you could call this a failure of investment i'll come back to where that is to now so what you see is um that's a friend of mine phil doran who once came up with this idea you see things taking up gaining interest you see investors coming in you see a hype so we saw that hype around 2000 for fuse cells and we're seeing the hype now for hydrogen and then comes the point where people realize it's not the economic option that will be successful in the midterms so the interest dwindles or it's not as ready as people thought there comes a veil of tears and death and then things stabilize again so i see this oh we've just analyzed this for hydrogen filling stations hydrogen filling stations on infrastructure they have to be put in place i would contest that it's the public who has to do this its industry has to do this because they will be earning money with this so you build the infrastructure and then it just sits there because there's no hydrogen vehicles they will only come when the infrastructure is there we've seen the same with mobile phones it's all known we've published this you need a concept of how you will fill this valley of death and there are ways of how the public can support it i don't think in the way of subsidies and there's well there's clearly a background to this there's a disruptive product there's disruptive infrastructure there's new players this these three elements define disruptive technology there's some interplay i would even contest whether a hydrogen car is a disruptive technology it clearly has a disruptive infrastructure but it's the same oems and it's still a car it has four wheels and an and a motor so um now let's look at how how this works how this is um how how this builds up a market rollout so i'm not referring to the animals lemmings here i'm referring to the pc game if anybody remembers so you have the basic research going on coming up with ideas then industrial development follows then you get some interest of regulation policies think of maritime regulation for having hydrogen as a fuel on shipping or an aircraft then comes some more and then comes market rollout so somebody comes up with a product you can actually bring to the market and you'll always have the lower steps preceding the later steps and if you don't do that you'll fail so if there's no blue sky research to support industry it will fail and if there's no regulation and policy framework to support the rollout it will fail so why is that so what happens so let's first look at the science what happens when industry rollout and science get disconnected then you lack the support university creativity you don't have these 100 phd students messing around coming up with lots of stupid stuff but five of them coming up with really essential new developments you also have a decrease in publications i've had a hard time researching for one of the students why volkswagen stopped their high temperature pfc development there's no literature on that there's no literature on why it failed or why it was stopped i just have word of mouth because i know a couple of people i've talked to what you also get so there's no input into new research that could circumvent the problem there's also a divergence of research topics if i talk to industry and say this is what we're doing in the lab they just shrug their shoulders and say well that's not our problem so what is that problem they won't talk about that so the only approach i have is my phd students are getting jobs with them and i might be talking to them at a conference sometime so in a sense there's no kick-off of the next and next but one developments that's how mcfc failed or is not doing very well let's put it that way there is no university larger scale development that is looking at the issues of mcses and how these can be overcome in all kinds of funny ways which might not be suitable and viable but there will be one that will be successful eventually and there's also a lack of what i call serendipity so an sme coming up with something and supplier-based delivering input so what happened when when i was in eulec at the research center we were at the hanover fair and people came up to us and said oh that's a peculiar um component you have there we can make that for you in a very easy way and that essentially started the developments with erinklinger and and bowser to to make cheap thin interconnects for for fuel cells but it came from a completely unprecedented angle and if you're not visible and if it's not clear what you're doing you just don't offer this this angle so industry whether it acknowledges that or not just needs this support from free research from people who are just generating ideas no matter whether they're practical or not at some point this will have an input and will have a have an impact and vice versa the demonstration and field test projects have to publicize their results we've just discussed that in the context of the joint undertaking several times i believe that there's too little feedback and that i fear is happening with these very large investments again so 100 megawatt electrolyzer what does that mean in research topics and how will that survive in an environment that is currently not made for it but i'll come back to that in a moment so there's a lot of difficult questions to answer here a lot of it is materials research i'll come back to that in a moment and with materials you're trying to marry properties that are in conflict so you want low degradation high performance long lifetime you want improved robustness you want good good handling and processing so manufacturing manufacturability and you might get great materials and i always hear these people saying they have something very promising next thing you know you can't apply it so you want to make a ceramic and it just doesn't center so no matter what the great properties are it doesn't react with sulfur what whatever you can't make a component from it so who cares so all these things have to go together and you need both industrial and university input to this so you start with this promising material so here this french promising material you look at the processing properties doesn't work you have to modify it if you go back to processing tricks you get composite materials and some functional improvement where you've done lots of compromise on the way but what has to happen here is research needs the input from industry so we always said when we transferred something to industry you have to keep talking to us and they never did they went away and then stopped the development because they it didn't work and we might have made it work so if you look at all the development aims the stuff that has to happen and it doesn't matter whether it's a fusion or electrolyzer it's all the same or any other hydrogen equipment you need long storm stability long-term stability thermodynamically chemically whatever you need um high performance so very porous very intricate intricately developed materials all kinds of properties all kinds of materials acting together so typically we have a variety of different materials working together quite different to other other technologies and most of that is his materials his materials development and a lot of that input comes from science and universities and research institutions and right at the bottom we have something that is more engineering operational strategies how to keep the system happy how to let it survive a long long time and i just pulled this up while i was researching i don't want to go into detail here this is a slide we prepared in 2007 and it's just as true today so with a lack of integration between industry and research you just don't progress sufficiently and i must say in this case it's soc the soc scene in europe is very much interconnected i was part of interconnecting them in 2004 when we started the project real soc and people are still talking to each other it's getting more commercial so people are moving off into different directions but this still is a sort of scene now the um there is scientific ways of getting out of this and a lot is about the materials and it's not just about materials mixing different alloys it's also about understanding the materials i still ideally think of a project where we can model materials we can model them to purpose and predict how they will work and then synthesize them i actually tried that once it didn't work too well because actually you couldn't synthesize what you modeled you just physically couldn't do it and the models didn't tell us that but from a better understanding of materials we can get better components which give us more lifetime and lifetime as an issue with all these technologies and more performance and you just name it reducing costs increasing improving the manage manufacturability all these things now let me just look at another aspect which i think is very important that is the regulatory and economic framework so what i predict and that's why i think we're in a hype cycle is that a lot of people are now investing a lot of money or a lot of public money i must say unfortunately into very large projects the next thing that will happen is they will say oh oops this is expensive so typically when talking to shipping companies there's a huge interest in hydrogen until you start doing the math of what it will cost because currently of course hydrogen has the benefit of being environmentally benign and being pushed by everybody publicly and politically but it can't compete with the fossil energy carriers you can't compete at the base of a diesel price it's just not possible so if you tell people well it will cost the four four times or five times more than maritime diesel they won't be interested anymore they will be prepared to pay 10 percent more and i've actually worked on projects where we could come up with double the price and that at least you can discuss that the lack of level playing field just destroys the economic perspective so there won't be immediate customers so initially customers will say yes we're interested until they see the price so talking to logistics companies if the price is even more anything more they will not be interested at least not seriously because amazon has been put they're putting pressure on them to be green so they have to do something but will they invest into a hydrogen lorry if they if they see the price so a tractor would be 500 000 euros instead of 150. so where will this difference come from if nobody pays it so there there will be a lack of follow-up investments we'll have a 100 megawatt or five gigawatt electrolyzer and then what where does the hydrogen go what is the price of that hydrogen who will absorb it in the market i can think of many things but the regulatory framework and the economic framework doesn't support this currently so what we first need to do and that was this building block falling off the top if there's no regulatory and policy framework then this will fail so germany has just done one of them by getting rid of the um [Music] the the renewable energy um levy on car on on electric power that is being used to produce hydrogen the next thing we have to get rid of is the the grid levy because that completely destroys the prospects of taking green electricity off the grid and producing hydrogen if you're not situated in the wind farm and can use without the public grid no chance and just to illustrate this so something i did years ago just take this as the cost of a prototype uh hydrogen vehicle first prototype 100 then coming down building a couple prototype and then trying to get into the market everybody will say you get into the market when you're the same price as a normal vehicle next question is what is a normal vehicle it could be an expensive one a mercedes it could be a cheap one a fiat and then of course the ex the comparison is on the purchase price but that is not the comparison the comparisons on the operating uh the full cost of ownership so including the operating cost that would be this line so you can see what difference that makes you can subsidize the hydrogen vehicle price comes down here so you actually get an earlier intercept but that is not the right comparison the right comparison is the diesel car the mercedes with no emissions so put on all the chemical engine chemical plant you need to get rid of the diesel emissions and that is the comparison this is not a level playing field and then you can discuss whether you do that regulatory or subsidy i would by now vote for the regulatory approach like not letting internal combustion engine vehicles into towns like london you just charge them so now we have this dominance of large scale projects so what we actually need is a the feasibility uh proof of of technology that is what i call field tests and the field tests with publicly available results so what is the experience with the technology demonstration projects have been used to spark off developments but this doesn't always work as i showed with the cute project so one one result or one inside of this is there has to be several projects of the same kind so often enough in national or international programs we find one project of a certain type is funded there is no funding for further projects of the same type because it has been done already but it's been done by one company not by several and i talked about the qt already that just has demonstration as such these very large-scale demonstrations might not um deliver the goal because they're singular and they don't have the economic basis to then um exist on their own so learn to walk before you run so um there has to be a broader supply basis there has to be more people funded for doing the same and having a variety of technologies so competition of solutions to the same technology and that then gives things like next-gen or the game changer we're always talking about or the disruptive way of producing something which is so much cheaper and just at the bottom to point this out it was mentioned somewhere i think somebody asked that in the chat there should be more cooperation with other areas of society and technology that are changing or infrastructure e-mobility i wonder might have an impact on how we travel on mobility as such on mobility services and that is something we're taking on board too little so just to sum up so i'm not using too much time i am anxious that we are in a hype cycle and we have to just make sure that the money we're investing will be well invested so in order to avoid disappointment we have to have a base of research there has to be a lot of inventiveness going into this and we have to see to it that this is funded sufficiently we need a regulative framework that will support all these developments so that the economy is solid even if it's by regulation and so that we get sustainable business cases if you can only go into town with an electric vehicle which is a fuel cell vehicle so be it there's no question whether it's economic it's the only way you can go and the there definitely is scope for public funds to go into this and it does always have to be subsidies it could also be loans or guarantees um but maybe not for the really very large demonstration projects so just to finalize here i i'll leave this slide up maybe and just point out a couple of events we're running so there's the summer school in september which once started as a u project trainee um there's the masters course we will be starting our october uh chi chi um there's lucerne conference we support and the workshop we will be running in perugia in may hopefully in person so stop sharing and i'm open to questions thank you robert very much uh this is exactly what i expected from you when i invited you i just have to open the door for a catch yes uh i worked on both sides i worked in the industry and i worked in at universities so i know exactly what you were talking about about the product development and the market readiness and the investments and this is this was just excellent uh is a question i don't know if it is appropriately could you please share your thoughts on the role of hydrogen in the carbonization of heavy industry there's a huge potential there but it's exactly what i was pointing out once they see the cost will they still be interested so if we don't have a framework of where we increase the price of carbon dioxide certificates and this won't fly there's a huge potential steel industry has told us three years ago you can build as many electrolyzers as you like over the next 20 years we'll buy all of them i i it remains to be seen that that is true but if you take industry and essentially it's chemical industry hydrogen is the input to chemical industry in many applications the demand is huge okay i don't see any there is a one in uh question analysis how do you answer that one myself okay so you think the future is bright or hydrogen it um yes in a way let's say hydrogen offers solutions to many problems we have today and it's not only hydrogen as such it's also high what i call hydrogen-based fuels it could be ammonia it could be methane built on hydrogen so synthetic natural gas with biomass carbon dioxide there's many ways you can package the hydrogen it doesn't have to be hydrogen as the pure element it offers a lot of solutions if you set the policy and the regulatory framework properly um if that is not set properly a lot of projects will fail because they recognize they're far too expensive and they can't deliver into the current economic situation as long as you're competing with diesel diesel prices are currently going up at least in germany because of carbon taxes so that's the right thing to do but at some point you'll have yellow vests all over the place people complaining about fuel prices so you have to package the whole thing we are currently paying for the environmental damage through our taxes so if you avoid the environmental damage you can invent invest that money in other places so it's it's a zero balance but politics have to set that balance and they have to show that it works and until that has happened i find it relatively bleak as an outlook okay thank you very much let's go further next i asked uh my colleague nevin dewitch to tell us about the energy transition in general and specifically for croatia so nevin the floor is yours thank you very much frano and i would also like to thank very much uh robert for excellent pointing out what are the problems on the way towards hydrogen economy and i will try to see uh uh how i will try to say what uh what we see from the side of uh energy systems where we see hydrogen coming and when uh regarding the uh the the speed of energy transition 2020 was a very interesting year it was uh partially thanks to corona also but not only the first year in which for a long time clean energy sources were appeared in production of electricity on a global scale than coal uh so what we see in european union is that clean energy sources especially wind and solar are growing very fast and that today wind is already the biggest electricity source on the capacity level what international energy agency is predicting is a very fast collapse of coal in the next five six years in european union and a huge growth in renewables variable renewables primarily wind solar is not something that international energy agency still recognizes but i think it will be much faster than it's shown in this graph so if we look at last 12 years since 2008 energy climate policy europe european union has done wonders we more or less managed to get to 20 of uh renewables in energy systems and if you look at croatia croatia was particularly successful uh we already managed to uh to to to reach the goal uh by the 20 2005 so we are way above the the level uh let me show you here croatia uh about above our target so uh we are quite successful uh in uh renewables uh so uh what we will see in the next uh ten and uh thirty years uh it's quite a big revolution in uh energy uh we want to reach climate neutrality by 2050 which means that fossil fuels will be mostly out uh on a figure you can see the phase out of coal uh happening uh quickly around uh around europe uh by 2030 we want to reach 55 percent lower greenhouse gas gas emissions compared to national transport and the carbonization of heating will also be necessary there is an idea to stop all investment in new fossil fuel infrastructure after 21. uh in order to reach that we have to reduce emissions in sectors according to this green line because agriculture is complicated uh we have to do more on the power side on transport side the green line really revolutionary goals that we put in front of us and in a way because variable renewables solar and wind are now very cheap compared to fossil fuels and nuclear we probably will go into direction of mostly using those sources in the energy systems but that creates a problem uh due to the very variability or intermittency of those renewables we will of course need more green inter grid interconnections uh we will need to flexibilize thermal power plants in a short term we need wholesale markets coupling which will make everything cheap but the most important thing we have to start integrating power heating cooling transport and water systems creating huge amounts of demand response of the power 2x technologies uh because dedicated electricity storage is something that will be quite expensive we have found cheaper energy storage and that can be done by integrating various sectors if we look at wind and solar capacities in uh production potential in europe we can see that we have a problem with solar because we are quite north so we cannot completely cover our needs with solar and short-term storage we need wind and the best combination of winded solar shows that we need probably two times more wind than solar if we build enough wind and solar we could cover most of this of the electricity need which is the red wine line here uh with wind and solar because on a continental level they balance each other enough that we have at least 10 percent of wind at any time of a year so in that case we will come out with a huge excess of wind and solar which are available for other uses uh of course this is extreme uh position we will of course use other renewable technologies and probably some nuclear but i'm just wanting to show what happens with variable renewables what to do with these excess renewables which we can not produce but then we lose money or we can try to produce it and sell it and use it in some way by supplying demand in heating and transport uh an industry how to do it uh 20th century energy systems were simple they were based on supply follows demand 21st century energy systems must be completely opposite we need energy of uh using this excess electricity in power to heat uh this is a small district heating in northern denmark uh and in times when electricity is expensive it's a pale green line then cogeneration units turn on and produce electricity and produce heat store heat in heat storage in times when electricity is cheap or even negative price electric boilers turn on and they cover the heat demand and also spend excess of electricity in a usable way we could cover much more of the heating with heat pumps but we need also uh heat storage heat storage is extremely cheap compared to electricity storage so it makes more sense to go with heat storage then storing electricity and then retrieving it back again to produce heat also transport is quickly electrifying four percent of the market in the last year were electric cars uh it was around three million uh electric cars and it seems that this is going very quickly now uh european market is already 10 electric vehicles croatian market uh is two percent electric vehicles so uh it seems that for uh short distance personal cars electric cars battery electric cars have won the battle this electric mobility has an issue let's imagine a very extreme situation that everybody comes home at five o'clock p.m everybody has a fast charger at home of 70 kilowatt and on austrian case let's say four million cards arrive home plugin and we get 280 gigawatt of uh power demand which is around 20 times more than installed cap so this is not possible of course this is extreme and it will not happen uh but on the other hand cars are parked 96 percent of time so with smart charging which is market-based we can smooth the demand so uh if we look at just those two technologies power to heat and power to e-mobility we can significantly increase penetration of variable renewables on wind if we increase the penetration wind we get more and more of critical excess of electricity production which means rejected curtailed electricity which cannot be integrated at around 20 of wind penetration we get around 5 of rejected electricity which is the limit of economically viable share of wind penetration if we add power to heat we get to 40 if we get power to e-mobility we get around 80 so we are still left with 20 that we cannot solve with these problems why so uh road fright we have several options roads can be electrified or we can go for hydrogen or we can go for some other e-fuel shipping and aviation log distance cannot be electrified and probably will not be high temperature processes sometimes that cannot be electrified we will have winter windless weeks when we will need backup they don't show very often but they may happen so no it makes around 20 of energy demand uh if we use biomass uh in a sustainable way for maybe half of it the other half has to be covered by something else and uh what we see as uh and what everybody sees it's uh hydrogen or some other kind of e fuels that we covered this uh demand uh we did simulation of southeast europe uh in 2050 uh it's published on applied energy i will not go into detail but what can be noted is that we see that primary energy will actually fall to half quite a lot of it will be most of it will be variable renewables and renewable heat and quite a lot of biomass in the region is quite rich with biomass but electrolyzers will actually spend half of electricity so even though they will cover around 10 percent of the final energy use uh half of the primary energy will go to electrolyzers this is the cheapest way how to fully decarbonize uh energy systems even though robert was speaking about hydrogen being expensive uh this is the electricity generation mix we see quite a lot of pv uh winds but also hydro since the region is quite rich in hydro so what is the way for hydrogen we can see now in europe two different visions for hydrogen one is to decarbonize gas and fuel by replacing it with hydrogen and synthetic fuels and what we could call efficient way is what european union in its strategy calls hard to decarbonize sectors where other alternatives might not be feasible or have higher costs uh so let me uh uh look a little bit into those points uh we were talking about heating and using either hydrogen or maybe e fuels for heating does it make sense uh if we use electricity uh coupled with heat storage and heat pumps then we need around 1.6 per hour hours of electricity in the union if we produce hydrogen by electrolysis and then store it transported we probably need something like uh five times more uh primary energy from renewables if we go to e-methane synthetic methane produced from green hydrogen and green co2 we need ten times more so uh i don't really see hydrogen in heating because we can easily cover all the heating needs low temperature heating needs with electricity and heat storage district heating and heat pumps but on the other side in road transport we have a bit more complicated yes electricity is the most efficient way to deliver transport but because of energy density of batteries which is rather small we will not be able to electrify up to half of the transport and then we will have to use either hydrogen pathway which means around double more electricity from primary energy or we will have to go to synthetic fuels which will then mean uh even more seven times more uh electricity from primary energy if we go to uh e dme or e-methanol or some other option so what we see as a as a good solution there will be paretos dividing electricity and fuels which means that short distance transport will mostly be covered by batteries and long distance transport will then have to sort out which of the hydrogen or other hydrogen-based fuels will win we don't see winners yet because it will depend on many things robert said regulatory and who will invest in infrastructure uh it is not really that clear but probably half of the transport will need hydrogen or some kind of hydrogen-based fuel so what we can conclude about the energy transition is that wind and solar are going to be the main uh energy sources primary energy sources of future uh around 98 of the investments in the last few years was in wind and solar in european union in the power sector but they're difficult to integrate and that's why we need integration of power heating cooling water and transport systems and the new integration strategy has correctly shown the way we will need smart energy systems which will be cheap and simple and what we need is green hydrogen because of two reasons one reason is because we actually want to decarbonize those sectors if we use gray hydrogen it means we are not decarbonizing sectors and and also we need green hydrogen because this is the cheapest way how to uh finish the energy transition without green hydrogen we cannot close uh the whole story so what we actually urgently need from developers from companies is cheap electrolyzers we have to push the price of hydrogen to one-third one-fourth of the current one of the green hydrogen so it can be competitive with gray hydrogen and it can easily replace gray hydrogen in industry and then slowly move it to the transport sector thank you very much uh thank you nevin uh me and nevin have numerous discussions uh previously at the conference is now mainly online and we in general agree uh except that he is probably too optimistic about the batteries in my taste and i'm probably too optimistic on hydrogen in his taste but in general we agree on this energy transition topic are there any questions on this i i don't see any on the energy transition i think that's uh uh i think you got to cover the all the aspects of energy transition and the role of hydrogen in it and i will now announce myself because i will try to continue with this energy transition and the role of hydrogen but specifically what can be done in in croatia so let me share the screen and i have to move to the beginning okay okay so the title is opportunities for hydrogen in croatia energy transition uh i don't have to present myself i think uh most of you know me uh i'm now retired at university but i'm actually working more than i was working before and mainly on the project that shows that there are many projects now on hydrogen even in croatia so very shortly uh what is energy transition i haven't already covered this and what role hydrogen should have in it also so i will mainly concentrate on this third part what can be done in in croatia so energy transition is a transition from uh let's say a fossil fuel primarily fossil fuel based energy system to renewable uh based energy system and the reason for this transition is uh carbon dioxide and the global uh warming uh so this is an eu view on hydrogen's role in energy transition uh jorge mentions most of this but he didn't show i think this slide that shows what are the roles that the in the eu hydrogen should or could have in in in this transition period and also in the in the energy future first of all is enable a large-scale efficient uh renewable energy integration and then distribute this energy across sectors and regions uh sectors meaning not only for power supply electricity supply but also in transportation and in heating and then also and that way act as a buffer to increase the system resilience but at the end use the hydrogen will have a role in the to the carbonized transport to the carbonized industry energy use and also serve as a feedstock in some industries that use hydrogen and that hydrogen is now being produced from natural gas so if you replace this gas with with a with a green hydrogen that will also contribute to the carbonization and then in in heating uh a hydrogen can decarbonize to some extent i've pretty much we asked this question to yorko and he thinks there's a lot of opportunities for halogen i kind of tend to agree more with nevin i think i don't think that the hydrogen has a lot of opportunities in in the heating so hydrogen has become a hot topic or or uh robert used the word hype uh there are daily news and new developments new business ventures new plans there's a new magazine called high view that actually publishes all the uh development in in a hydrogen business hydrogen industry and on a daily basis oh my on the daily basis uh we have a news this is just the news from the last two weeks uh uh showing what's going on in industry who's making deals with whom uh who develop something who plans to develop something and and so on so it's very interesting to follow this and this reminds me on a hype we had before you know i've been in hydrogen business for so long that already been through hype of hydrogen and there was a very similar uh kind of in use and and use forums for hydrogen so this is all part of of hydrogen hype okay so now uh uh what can be done in croatia and this part of my presentation i will first talk about the creation present energy system then mention the creation energy strategy till 2030 a role of renewable energy role of hydrogen present level of involvement in hydrogen technologies uh briefly about correlation hydrogen association increasing interest in hydrogen in croatia and then about croatian hydrogen strategy so this is a a very simplified diagram of the croatian energy system as it is today which is primarily based on imports of natural gas and oil and some coal as well we have domestic resources of what wood and biomass natural gas and oil and then we have a hydropower plants and wind and solar power plants and also we have one half of nuclear power plant uh which is in the border with slovenia we also import a lot of electricity and we use this in in a traditional way showing this is a residential commercial sectors in industry and transport so this is croatia is a relatively good position because it has a lot of energy provided from hydro also from some wood and biomass and so reaching the goals as nevin has shown uh of the carbonization was fairly easy for for croatia so this is how much renewable energy we have we now have i was really surprised when i found this data that we almost have about one gigawatt of installed uh capacity from renewables mainly from wind but some solar small hydro biomass biogas and also in croatia they count cogeneration also as a part of the renewable and this is actually showing only the generation that is uh uh in in in a system now uh uh of uh let's call subsidies uh but there is also uh some of them that came out of the of those subsidies and they are not counted here but they are maybe the order of 20 30 uh megawatts and this also shows a generation in december uh uh from this so mainly from wind biomass solar is very small because the december was probably not the best month for solar and also there may be some new uh solar power plants coming uh counting here but not really coming to fall work in december uh croatia has energy strategy up to 2030 with the look uh outlook to 2050 and we can see there that currently croatia has a 27.3 percent of uh uh in the baseline uh share of renewable energy in the final consumption or 45 in electricity generation and the goal is to increase those shares uh uh to 2030 or 20 uh 50. uh zero is a business as usual s1 is a very rapid energy transition and s2 is a slightly moderate energy transition and all of them uh we plan to increase the share of uh renewable energy in the electricity generation up to 80 82 88 percent uh in the final consumption uh relatively modest 37 by 20 30 or 65 or 53 depending on the scenario uh also the share of uh electric vehicles in on the road up to 30 in a business as usual scenario but up to 85 percent or even 65 by 20 2050 renewable energy this is the types of renewable energy that are in in the creation energy strategy and it looks like this strategy was trying to satisfy everyone so there is a hydra there is wind there is solar there is biomass biofuels geothermal and croatia is really blessed with all those uh resources and it should use them to be energy independent and to be clean this is in the power generation so again we have a solar which is yellow and wind which is green which is predominantly by 20 50. we also have a hydro that is now creation now is generating about 40 to 50 percent depending on the year from a hydro hydro and with this uh this is everything from the uh energy uh strategy of croatia we plan to accomplish reduction of co2 emissions by 2030 in the order of 35 to 37 and by 2050 by 64 to 74 and hydrogen is not mentioned in in in in the strategy well it's mentioned but very very uh shy uh and there are no really numbers or goals so european union has launched the study for each country member uh for hydrogen opportunities and they consider their energy strategy they consider opportunities in croatia and these are the results what came out of this study is that there is a potential for up to 20 30 uh to employ 26 to 150 depending on the scenario megawatts of electrolyzers and then use this hydrogen in industry in buildings in transport and in power as a load leveling so this is much more aggressive say thinking than a croatia energy strategy and i went even further with my students we kind of envisioned a 100 renewable energy system for croatia in 2050 and it's very easy to put this on the paper we have to satisfy our needs for electrical energy for heat and for transport and we only rely on the photo photovoltaics for solar power plants on wind and hydro and therefore use electricity as directly as possible as as much as possible use heating for the heat pumps either electric or gas powered and use hydrogen as a storage medium and also as a fuel for transportation so half of it will be on hydrogen half on electricity and then also use hydrogen to produce uh synthetic methane that can be used then because there's existing grid of synthetic methane that can be used also for in in a power generation co-generation or in in the heat pumps and this uh so this shows that it is possible to have it the question is how uh how to get there uh just a brief overview of the current activities this is actually bart bay books uh slide that shows uh hydrogen activities in croatia very few we have enough that produces hydrogen for its own purposes but it has a capacity reserve that can produce more hydrogen if anybody will be buying it so far there are four uh projects that were funded by fuel cell hydrogen joint undertaking and all four we have here at the faculty of electrical engineering mechanical engineering and our architecture at split this is my research group uh we also outside the project of funding from fca ju we built a complete hydrogen energy system and we have a fuel cell power atv and then uh my colleague at university of zagreb uh also is active in the hydrogen field with the fuel cell uh bicycle and a hydrogen refuelling station uh using a renewable energy so this is the energy system that we have at the university here in in split that we have a photovoltaic panels on the roof a wind turbine on the roof and providing a dc or ac loads this is in the in the lab and then the excess electricity can go to hydrogen we can store hydrogen and then use it to refill the vehicle we have this yamaha atv or when there is no wind and no solar we can then produce electricity from fuel cells and the system of course has also batteries for a short-term storage and the hydrogen is more like long-term storage and so this system is actually already in place for several years now we have a wind turbine that actually lasts borah broke it uh so we have to buy a new one photovoltaic tunnels have been moved to another location but still working here on the roof and they are all connected to the lab and in the lab we have a fuel cell we have the electrolyzer here and the dc dc converters and the electronic load is here and the hydrogen storage there is only one bottle now but we already purchased and is being installed as we actually speak about 12 bottles of hydrogen in front of the lab last year or actually a year before we started the croatian hydrogen association which was actually i started this as soon as i came back from united states that was in 2007 2008 we started but it was ahead of its time uh it was mainly dormant because there were no interest for hydrogen but since we noticed that there is an increased interest intelligence we revived this organization and uh we now have uh we have become a member of hydrogen europe and the clean hydrogen alliance uh you can find us on this map this map also a yoga show this morning and this is a creation the logo of creation hydrogen association on this map uh our mission is to provide the support to hydrogen technologies and there are developers and users leading to their implementation that's contributing to cleaner environment and sustainable national economy our activities more on the promotion and popularization of hydrogen energy technologies connecting research institutions with industry and government bodies in creating projects involving hydrogen energy technologies i will show some of those projects that are ongoing interacting with the international organizations with similar missions as i said we are part of a hydrogen europe and contributing to creation of the national hydrogen uh strategy our members are big players like ina hep jurajakovic and siemens and the small businesses like adria windpower active solera and x-ray green systems uh we also have a companies that show interest in the projects like broader split the shipyard messer temex uh sam marine uh pomack and innova pro are also members of our association this is a list of possible hydrogen applications in croatia firstly in transport so we can have a city and inner city buses trucks trains for non-electrified rails delivery vehicles vehicles for cleaning and garbage removal from city centers four clips in industry and warehouses all these vehicles already exist in in the market in in europe uh specifically for croatia we need vehicles for transport of tourists to the beaches and hotels uh vehicles for tourists in national parks and natural reserves including boats and also both ships ferries small cruise ships croatia was once a world between three or four leading countries in in shipbuilding we have mainly neglected this and i think this is opportunity to maybe revive some of them if they can focus on on a hydrogen powered both ships ferries or small cruise ships but the problem with the hydrogen in transport or hydrogen any application of hydrogen is in a hydrogen chain is interdependence of hydrogen technologies because introduction of hydrogen technologies requires involvement and coordinated action of hydrogen producers and distributors you cannot buy a hydrogen bus because there is no hydrogen supply in croatia and nobody is supplying hydrogen in croatia because there are no hydrogen buses so that's why i said that we need a coordinated action uh between producers distributors manufacturers of devices and equipment vehicles and end users and in addition a regulatory framework we already heard a couple of presentations before must be in place and the financing uh secured so there's a lot of work it's just an idea i will put a hydrogen bus on the road because you have to solve all these issues here so yes for all these vehicles we will need hydrogen refuelling stations and hydrogen supply infrastructure and this is the a possible hazard refueling network uh uh about five years ago uh ankita and her professor uh mikhailovic they published a paper about the hydrogen infrastructure that is possible to produce hydrogen through electrolysis and have a numerous refueling stations along the main corridors so maybe in the beginning it will look something like this and maybe in the end we can produce hydrogen at this fields and have hydrogenated fueling stations in these red dots but also we can use hydrogen uh generation for storage of energy from rebuild energy power plants we can use fuel cell co-generation units or use green hydrogen in cement and petrochemical industries or we can if you don't know what to do with algae we can inject it in natural gas pipeline system uh up to a certain certain percent croatia has a natural gas grid that has been extended even further to the south but there is a problem in the south because there are no users and there are no distribution grids they are being built uh we have a lot of roadworks now on split by putting the natural gas pipelines but i think the better option would be to put a natural gas fuel cells near the major uh pipeline and then have rely on on the existing electricity grid uh to provide hydrogen and also we have another one project that is ongoing which is somewhere here near zagreb in a thermal power plant yesterday that is going to be decommissioned but instead of using natural gas it may be producing a green hydrogen and injecting in a grid of natural gas so this is the list of recent hydrogen-related projects at the various stages of development some are just the ideas some are really uh going on uh actually today at ten o'clock there was an announcement of a city buses and the refueling infrastructure in the city of zagreb which is a project that i am proud to be a part of it uh uh city of zagreb and ina are developing this project with the pda bart mentioned this is a project development assistance uh that they they got from from brussels uh similar projects we would like to have with the postal service vehicles again involving ina and the croatian post office there is a project i just mentioned in the previous slide the green hydrogen generation injection natural gas pipeline there is a project about the wind farm load leveling using electricity from a wind farm when the price of electricity is low and then instead of sending a selling for the lower price they can produce hydrogen and then selling either hydrogen or selling electricity at a higher price at a later uh time uh uh hydrogen for the carbonization of energy and cement industry i just recently learned that cemex is going on with this a pilot project actually there was an announcement in that hydrogen view uh journal that i mentioned uh uh before about the cement industry doing this and i wrote send an email to semex and they said yes we are doing it we will let you know uh how it goes then there's an idea to use a board between the airport and the city harbor uh and equip it with the fuel cells and batteries and have it as a hybrid and the same company also can produce its own hydrogen from a solar uh power plant in a split uh background and then also there is an idea of using hydrogen producing hydrogen from garbage and we will have two presentations uh later in the second part of this of this webinar so in the conclusion uh hydrogen can have several roles in the croatian as well as in european energy transition which is enable light scale integration renewable energy integration and distribute it as across energy sectors and act as a buffer also to help the carbonized transport and help to carbonize certain industry as a fuel and as a fee stock there's an increased interest for hydrogen in croatia as compared to last maybe 10 years ago or five years ago or last year a tremendous increase in interest and we definitely need the croatian hydrogen energy strategy to take advantage of the eu hydrogen strategy that yorgo mentioned and to create opportunities for hydrogen in croatia and i have a breaking news here because last week croatian government has made the decision to make a national halogen strategy and the working group has been proposed and the next presentation uh architecture will tell us more about this i sorry if i uh took under from your presentation but this is all i have for you so i'll be happy also to answer any questions if there are questions okay there is a one question here how are the creation regulations regarding hydrogen transport and storage applying to european regulations i think i can answer very briefly we don't have a croatian regulations and so we in the cases where there is no creation regulation we then use european standards and european regulations any other question there is maybe one in question and answers until now i heard only about the electrolysis is a methodology for hydrogen production however some other concepts are under consideration at least in a scientific community such as photoelectrochemical or photochemical water splitting are these concepts considered as potentially viable technologies in the real world system the answer is very simple yes if they can meet the uh coast targets uh those are very attractive systems to produce hydrogen directly so instead of producing electricity and then using electricity to split a water yes we can split water directly in in a some device that looks like a photovoltaic panel but instead of electricity the product is hydrogen but it must be efficient enough or who cares about efficiency we call care only about the cost so if the cost is acceptable and the reason why europe is putting so much emphasis on electrolyzers is there is opportunity to bring the cost down by mass mass producing uh you know there's a more moose law that any product can if it's produced if if the production is increased in a by an order of magnitude the cost goes down by half so that's why european union is uh setting this goal of two times 40 gigawatts of uh electrizers uh hoping that the price will fall down by four times okay uh there is no more question and i will ask then ankita to tell us about the hydrogen creation hydrogen strategy ankita yes yes i'm coming just a second to share my screen do you see my screen uh do you hear me professor yes yes yes we can hear your screen okay we can see your screen uh hi um good afternoon everyone uh i will give you a few hot information on croatian hydrogen strategy so what is the most important regarding to the european hydrogen strategy that was published in july 2020 there are two main points the energy transition to renewable energy sources is urgently needed on a large scale and it can be accelerated by relying on mass-produced green hydrogen so we need uh we need a mass uh hydrogen uh production uh uh to secure um to secure green energy uh transition with um zero co2 emission so when it comes to the production of green hydrogen regardless of the power of the plant according to the european hydrogen strategy the choice fell on water electrolysis so a hydrogen produced via water electrolysis using renewable energy sources is so-called green hydrogen and this is uh this is important to highlight uh all the time that only accepted um on the on the long way is a green hydrogen so we have a historical uh we have a historical date february 25th 2000 2001 when on the proposal of the minister of economy and sustainable development thomas levchowicz the government of republic croatia headed by prime minister andrei plankovic adopted the initiative for development of croatian hydrogen strategy i think this deserves um [Music] this deserves attention of all of us um in croatia because um i would say um our big dream uh is coming true uh i i'm really happy that uh croatian government uh recognized the importance of hydrogen and the importance of developing a hydrogen national hydrogen strategy because on this base we would we would apply on some fundings uh when you have when you have some vision um on the base of uh hydrogen strategy then you can then you can um develop your project and then you will um achieve uh your results based on uh based on energy transition without uh without co2 uh emission so um what are the hottest uh information from the uh ministry this is that in the next 10 days an expert working group will be established uh the expert working group starts working on the day of its establishment and this document is expected to be completed in the next few months so um this uh this should not and will not um take a year it will uh take just just a few months uh to complete the document so from this strategy we can go further to have some active plants and to and to really work and adopt hydrogen as as energy carrier within a croatian energy um so professor barbier uh already showed uh a few of these figures so what can i say uh the great mind think alike so i will just quickly pass through this uh uh through this uh figures here is presented guest network pipelines and solar irradiance in croatia croatia is um is very rich with solar energy and we are still not using the whole capacity of solar energy but i'm i'm pretty sure that this will uh change um very near uh in the in the future especially now when we have uh when we have started um with croatian hydrogen strategy where we will focus on the green hydrogen and its production using renewables mostly uh solar energy and wind and others when when appropriate so this is just a story radiance and electro distribution network of republic of croatia and as professor already mentioned we analyzed three phases uh within this paper so this uh this is the this was the first phase uh where we planned uh hydrogen refueling station in the uh three uh three big cities the second phase uh included the other cities and the third phase um is covering almost the whole the whole uh croatia and uh hydrogen refueling station uh can be installed um with hydrogen production on site or offsite so uh it depends it depends on on on them on solar energy when we uh when we uh uh where we locate uh locate hydrogen refueling uh station and it is not just about hydrogen fueling stations all this system is is in fact energy system where you can uh supply um household industry and um and everyone with electrical and and electrical energy and and the heat energy uh as well so how we will achieve all these uh all these results uh and um our ideas and plans just in this way so uh to become climate neutral by 2050 we need to act together and this together means academy industry and the policy and i think we are on a good way uh we are we are doing good things and uh there are more good things um are to come uh so uh we just uh need need to keep these through these uh three wheels uh together so it's uh um to just to highlight uh today's webinar so it is uh not all about hydrogen we are not we are not talking about hydrogen as a purpose in itself here is all about climate change so we don't have a time by 2050 we need to have zero emission and there is a there is no no no space to further discussion why we have time it is a long term to 2050 no there is no time and and we have to act now and the hydrogen is here a source to help this transition uh to to achieve um climate natural croatia and not just the croatia but the whole europe um with zero emission by 2050 and without comment it's just a full stop thank you very much for your attention if you have if you have any question i'm i'm here to answer i don't need i don't see if there is any so professor you can read or thank you ankita for this a brief introduction of croatian hydrogen strategy we are all very proud and i also thank you for all your effort to actually get there uh because things don't happen by itself i know uh okay uh so this was the first part of our conference that we have invited talks because i envisioned this to talk about the european uh strategy about the development of hydrogen in europe and then about the croatian start the transition and creation uh developments in hydrogen and creation strategy now for the second part which will be uh much shorter we have five or six presentations on different projects that are being envisioned in croatia and the first one of those is a project i mentioned actually i mentioned all of them in my presentation but the first one i mentioned was the bus project in the city of zagreb but there's actually much more than this so uh ina uh uh and the diamond militias from ina will tell us about inna's perspective on a hydrogen in in croatia so hello yeah okay hello everyone uh my name is daniel miletic thank you for this introduction i'm ahead of uh in a development and uh i'm glad that i will present you our project what we are what we are developing yet uh okay just to put it in the in the slide show mode okay uh i will talk to you about the this uh project about the the concept of this project where we are now and what are the next steps but first let me introduce with ina so we we are medium-sized european company owned by two major uh shareholders we have a upstream part this exploration and production of the crude oil we have a processing now in the in the riyaka refinery only sees the refinery we are transforming uh in in in industrial site and also we have now more than 500 uh filling station in in the in the core market what about the project uh project uh our aim is uh to evaluate hydrogen uh as an alternative fuel in transport we see and we saw all uh all uh reasons uh why the hydrogen is inevitable in in in our future uh to the pot as a path to to for the decarbonization and the and the our main interest is to use the hydrogen production in the echo refinery and develop one green hydrogen production either in rieka or cisa refinery now we are making the uh different studies to see what what option is is the best so what is the benefit for ena and interest foreign is that to offer the hydrogen in the market for the reasonable price to be competitive uh and uh and for the long-term development of a hydrogen economy because as you all see so on in these presentations before that uh it will be the the the major uh major uh supplement for for the diesel in in the future we also want to contribute to creation energy strategy in that tech organization and transport so this transformation uh to green and low uh carbon uh energy uh this is uh also something what we want to want to use to be on that train in the path of our transformation to to to green company to greener company uh so what about the project uh so idea started with our hydrogen production what we have in india we have a big surplus of of hydrogen produced by by steam meta reformer this is uh technology uh very conventional we also produced the electricity and steam on that unit but uh this is the since this this process is very uh co2 intensive we want to decorate so our major interest besides the selling uh the hydrogen for the for as a transport fuel it's also to consequently use it as a feed stock for for the refining process it will also depends on the price of the co2 but we want to be prepared for this scenario so besides uh besides the steam meta reformer we we want to install the electro electrolyzes from renewable energy sources so and and since also professor professor mentioned that there is no any any market demand in in croatia uh for for uh nobody will buy the buses because there is no production and nobody will be produced because there is no any demand so our approach was in this project was to to prepare and to make the clear partnership with city of zagreb and and and create the the new hydrogen while value chain in croatia we also see development of of the hydrogen market by by this european directive which will uh where where where the where the where the city buses after 2025 and up to 30 all will need to be used for for zero zero you'll need to use the zero emission fuels so our plan is besides developing the valley chain is to to have a also a three uh three uh hydrogen filling station by 2025 and the additional five by 20 2013. so it's also mentioned that uh ina and city of zagreb uh uh they are we are today signed a letter of cooperation for introduction fuel sales buses in the public transportation uh we also were awarded by by technical assistance from fuel sales hydrogen joined the undertaking uh and uh uh we we got this uh project development assistant until which which will be uh finalized uh in the mid of uh of uh 2021 so we estimated for now but still this is not final figures that the capex needed for this infrastructure what we plan to do first it's around the 20 million euros and we also expect to utilize european funds funds for for for development of this new value chain uh now we are in this development phase and and the next three years after 2021 uh we expect that this project will be finalized i would also like to mention that uh besides the city of zagreb who is our partner in that in that project we also closely collaborate with two ministries and and the faculty of faculty of indian engineering mechanical engineering split and also in in zagreb uh for the next steps besides the to finalize this project uh we want to see the other funding options for implementation of this project we also we will also uh continue to active work with croatian hydrogen association and hydrogen clean alliance uh so our resources also are contributing uh in this hydrogen strategy preparation we also want to continue cooperation with scientific community because we also want to see besides besides usage of these new inventions but also we want to see the potential of of the new resources what will be needed for for this economy hydrogen economy and uh we want to develop the new business concept in in for the for the hydrogen in croatia since uh only transport and and our own usage in in in terms of the carbonization i think it will not be enough and we need to to expand more and that will be all from my side if you have any questions thank you damir for this brief overview of enos activities yeah i'm sure many people in croatia are wondering what ina is doing regarding hydrogen so now you show this very well uh i don't see there was a question about uh uh what do you envision as a cost of price for future green hydrogen and i answered this on your behalf that we are still calculating this yeah that is that right yeah this is this is right okay we're still developing that case and thank you yeah okay thank you uh the next presentation i asked my colleague here at university uh professor gomez raditzada to tell us about hydrogen boats and ferries and ships gomer also chief of the heat engine department and member of croatia hydrogen association and leader of the project efficiency improvement emission reduction and hybridization of the marine power system supported by a creation science foundation project so today um i will talk about the uh potential projects in uh croatia regarding the um hydrogen power board both as you know in my ultimate transport we are obliged to obey emission regulations uh nowadays the shipowners are interested in the introduction of zero emission technology for ships and croatia has a lot of possibility and the advantage is to use hydrogen such as catamarans for coastal traffic and island connections bug boats boats in national parks as well multifunctional barges with the possibility of autonomous navigation and the hydrogen fuel transporter there is possibility of sure to produce this electricity uh directly on the boat and of course other possibilities such as waste management the cruise electricity supine ports and the other possibilities so you know that croatia has thousands of islands which are ideal for demonstrating uh hydrogen energy technologies because they have problems with conventional energy supply but also they have advantages as they as they are a huge possibility to use renewable energy and the aim for sure will be to develop energy system that will be self-sustaining now let's consider some opportunity such as first opportunity that will be explained here is a small 40 meter ferry for islands that is sailing in salt adriati coast total distance for this ferry is 10 nautical of course the propulsion system will be electro propulsion system but there will be a temp fuel cells and battery power pack that of course has to be properly designed and the power management control should be properly established for application to optimize the energy consumption according to available energy sources a second opportunity that we defined is repowering of catamaran that used that now use two internal combustion engines 800 kilowatt and it achieved the velocity uh 24 nautical miles but now we are thinking about uh repowering these catamaran with two electro electrical propulsions so the battery combined with temp fuel cells of course there will be problems problems could be a power supply for charging this battery as well as the hydrogen uh charging but now we are trying to resolve all these problems of course there are uh advantages and the advantage is that ship owner plans his own solar power plant with electrolyzer so these projects is interesting because the process will be completed with energy production and application and that will be for sure very attractive for possible projects or found and the third possibility is the implementation in 50 meter cruising ships that is in croatia it is growing opportunity because uh each year five to ten boats uh were building um uh for uh these uh cruising as a cruising ships these projects are important as they are sailing uh through our national parks with nike uh with knight uh encouraging uh on the island and here we need the bean energy and that for sure is the um hydrogen power pack and for the conclusion um in marine transportation for sure technology uh we'll have to go in the direction that gives priority to battery and hydrogen as a sustainable renewable technology for marine tech deportation of course there should be some uh incentives such uh poor discounts for zero emission ships and uh in uh execution phase we have to oblige coastal passenger shipping companies to their emissions and then other shipping companies of course you know that um the soon adriatic and mediterranean will be uh echo zone so emote free regulation will will be applied and that is all for the presentation thank you for your attention uh thank you goyal for this uh presentation the very brief and very uh to the point uh uh it will be really exciting to to have a hydrogen boat on the on the adriatic we hope some of these projects will realize uh relatively soon okay let's see if you have any question uh there's something else i don't see any question about the also okay let's go to the next one uh next one will be on uh production from waste to green hydrogen and it will be by a company called smo they are one of the first members of our association and i don't know if the presentation will be given by julie or by ivana ivanov says she has some problems with her with her voice so maybe julie will tell us about it hi i'm i'm here i will try to okay i'm sorry as you can hear i'm a little bit under the weather but i really didn't want this to stop me from presenting today and i'm so happy to have this opportunity to present our technology and thank you very much professor barbara for organizing this webinar so can you just confirm please that you see my um presentation yes we can we can we can see it okay so um my name is ivana yukich and i'm a co-founder of active solera which is a company developing ways to revenue projects in croatia and on your screens you can see an smo unit which stands where smo stands for solar microwave oven a compact processor fitting into a shipping container it is a patented autonomous plug-and-play system which is whose whole units can be easily multiplied to meet the production site volume needs smo transforms all types of carbon-based waste into high added value products worldwide including remote and isolated zones so besides being modular and mobile the unique point of our bio energy with carbon capture technology is that it is powered directly through solar thermal energy no fossil sources are used for power ever in any step of the process any carbon-based waste is good enough for smo even plastics which brings me to another very unique advantage of this be ccu technology and this is it's a negative carbon footprint even when transforming waste from fossil sources the versatility of our products allows us to adapt quickly to the conditions and products that a local market needs through licenses for joint venture partners smo enables them to adopt the philosophy of taking everything from waste and leaving nothing to waste natural processes participate to a cyclic uh co2 exchange maintaining the balance between the co2 present in soils biomass and the atmosphere so we all know that the nature does an excellent job however human activities and in particular the overuse of fossil sources creates an imbalance by strongly enhancing co2 emissions this is where smo comes in as a dynamic carbon sink offering a two-way solution by avoiding new co2 emissions with the use of bioenergies and by storing the fossil co2 into long-lived smo carbon products so for example if smo were to capture 1 million tons of co2 it could do so with the 10 unit site over 10 years so it's just one site with the capacity of 20 megawatts this would also mean transforming over 84 000 tons of dry waste per year generating 130 gigawatt hours of clean electricity annually and more than 7 900 tons of green hydrogen per year so just example wise smo takes 36 times less land space than for example photovoltaic voltaics so this french design technology has already been recognized through international awards especially since our demonstration site has been built in morocco on the occasion of the cop22 in 2016. this has allowed us to validate the first technological brick uh smo pyrolysis since then we have validated other crucial steps and are now ready to deploy our first commercial sites uh the whole process is composed of four main steps uh which are all solar powered without conversion to electricity so the first step is sorting and granulation of the waste input the second is the pyrolysis third one is the gasification and the last one is hydrogen purification and compression for industrial use the first three steps have already been validated and prototyped and tested even though smo could use a commercially available turbine for hydrogen compression we are developing a solar turbine together with the system for simultaneous hydrogen purification and compression which would yield excellent quality outputs and cut the energy needed for compression to half so with our capex as low as 1.5 million euros per megawatt our typical five-unit site with the 10 megawatt capacity represents a capex of 15 million euros with the 12 million of annual turnover uh 4 million net profit over 20 years of planned lifetime so all of this allows us to propose green hydrogen right now at the price which is competitive to the market prices each of our production units may generate the diversity of products all with the negative carbon footprint and the high added value which are selected on the opportunities given by the implantation zone today we're putting an accent on the markets aimed by our commercial site in croatia so hydrogen and electricity in their classical production modes use fossil sources as raw materials or in their production cycle as both are used in energy production and distribution including their use for transport they are one of the most impactful solutions to decarbonize our lifestyle with exponential projections for the next 10 to 30 years our ecological impact makes us eligible for emitting carbon credits as a voluntary or mandatory compensations for all of our products we are looking to develop long-term off-take contracts with our clients and we offer them in exchange zero carbon products without the ecological surplus in price since we hold a position in the lower third range of the market prices in our creation project together with our partners we want to offer a solution to turn waste accumulated and forgotten on croatian islands into green hydrogen and electricity by developing a boat using hydrogen fuel cells for power we will be able to transport the waste from the islands without co2 emissions additional co2 emissions supporting circular economy principles we also want to give the opportunity to the islands to manage fluctuations in power needs especially during high tourism seasons to avoid power cuts which sometimes last for several weeks we strongly believe in making an impact for the future and are proud to propose clean green profit machines please feel free to contact us via email or phone if you have any questions or wish to simply discuss we're always happy to connect thank you all for your attention and let's fight together and put good technologies into work for a better future thank you ivana for a very interesting presentations uh we often neglect actually waste as a energy source uh but the waste is not energy so rest is a big problem especially in croatia especially on the adriatic coast because we so far we have no solutions we are just dumping the waste and then covering with the earth but this is a great way to create uh something useful uh out of it and of course i'm very happy that it's that useful is hydrogen and uh thank you uh our next presentation is on the very same topic so that's apparently very interesting topic also in croatia but also in europe uh so the next presentation will be by i think uh mr zlatan from x-ray green systems you have to turn your phone you have to turn your microphone on click on the microphone yes very good okay speakers for interested english speakers it will be no problem to send it in english english language i think that's okay because i think we only have one english-speaking person which is the next speaker from toyota uh everybody else will understand you my apologies to mr kasuke for this but yeah i'm sorry once again okay um [Music] um uh uh um um [Music] [Music] [Music] is [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] um [Music] foreign a [Music] [Music] is um you [Music] stop sharing hi um i will switch on on english so uh now i will shortly present uh green hydrogen projects uh that we are working on um in a faculty of mechanical engineering and naval architecture um this will be just a fast run through the finished and ongoing project but more information you can find on hydrogen.h.r [Music] website so um green hydrogen projects at the university of zagreb faculty of mechanical engineering and naval architecture where i am head of power engineering laboratory uh green hydrogen production system uh then we developed first creation hydrogen powered bicycle first croatian hydrogen refueling station uh then we um uh then we um had a project creation mirai challenge in cooperation with toyota croatia uh and uh two um ongoing projects are securing electrical energy in the case of climatic streams and natural disasters and advanced methods of green hydrogen production and its transportation here you can see installed a hydrogen production system here you here you can see electrolyzer and the electrical current we are getting from the uh solar energy um through the photovoltaic modules that are installed on the roof of of uh laboratory here you can uh see first uh croatian hydrogen uh powered bicycle on the road uh this is a bicycle powered by um uh thirty hundred uh three hundred watts pem uh fuel cell with the hydrogen from a 30 bars storage tank um of course we need to refuel a hydrogen bicycle and um we installed a hydrogen refueling station at this station currently um is okay for refueling a bicycle uh because um it's uh it's um up to 30 bars uh and but it is modular so uh easily we can uh switch on on higher bars so we can uh supply with hydrogen different hydrogen vehicles um now this shape of hydrogen refuelling station because of its design is protected as intellectual property on national and international level and it is a part of sophisticated equipment installed inside it is um also attractive when you when you are walking around it because um it has lights and it is a great effect uh during during the night um in this refueling station uh hydrogen is also produced um using electrolyzer and photovoltaic modules that are installed on the roof of this station um thanks to this refueling station croatia um croatia is marked on a european um hydrogen uh hydrogen roadmap uh so um it is noted that it is a refueling station currently for uh four vehicles um up to 30 bars uh here we can see um our our great project that i'm very very proud of call creation where i challenge when we incr with the in cooperation with toyota um croatia organized this road trip from zagreb to brussels and um with this project we wanted to to promote a clean transportation uh based on hydrogen and our first refueling station was uh uh was in graz and it was really a really great and uh amazing experience it was a great team uh so i hope we will repeat it in the future uh with the with the second generation of uh toyota mirai that is currently uh launched on the road um current project is securing electrical energy in the case of climate extremes and natural disasters um this was a public um uh presentation of the project in the in the hotel westin uh last year in september uh so this project is founded from european fund of regional development and within it uh we will develop um the mobile and the system for mobile and stationary application based on a green hydrogen and it's a usage in uh in a fuel cells um it is um also important to highlight that um this hydrogen will be stored in in a storage tank up to 500 bars and that means that a part of securing electrical energy for example for hospitals and for i don't know policy etc etc it can be used for uh for refueling buses um and also at the first stage and also uh with upgrading it it will be also possible to use it for refueling um hydrogen uh hydrogen um cars that are on uh 700 700 uh bars uh and uh the newest project uh is uh funded uh by a croatian science foundation and it was approved in in december last year and officially started in um january uh this year and we will research advanced methods of green car hydrogen production and transportation and as the project just started i don't i i don't have photos with with the people on it but i i hope soon we will also also have uh this one the role of of hydrogen group uh of the university um of zagreb faculty of my faculty is based on three pillars first one is education uh the where we are organizing dynamic interactive lectures for students also workshops for industry representatives policy makers and academic staff uh we have a workshop called hydrogen and fuel cells where we also during the toyota croatia uh croatia mirai challenge organized this workshop and uh also as a lecture there was a professor barbier and others uh second one uh pilar is scientific research where we are investigating new methods for green hydrogen production and the third pillar is collaboration uh we have a good connection with the other akan academy institutions and industry and we are working on on joint projects related to feasibility studies or some research researcher of of components etc etc so why we are talking about this i really love this uh this slide i'm proud of it uh i invest a lot of my time to design this slide so um pay attention always keep on your mind that by the 2050 we we need to achieve zero emission and there is no excuses and there is no time uh so uh when we are talking uh about different uh energy um uh energy carriers energy systems uh we always have to have on our mind uh that by 2050 we need to have we need to achieve zero uh zero emission so um i i think i i was fast so um you you can always contact me or you can check our projects and some other activities on on this uh this website thank you thank you thank you ankita for this presentation and i don't see any questions let me check questions as well okay uh thank you uh and we saved the best for last no offense taken but i think uh those of you there's still 112 participants waiting for this uh it's about from toyota and it will be it's called beyond zero so uh i welcome ken to give us this uh presentation thank you very much for the opportunity for aleppo i'm very happy to present a toyota strategy today i'm a ken scott a president of the toyotaria covering the whole yugoslavia except macedonia so let me share with you about my presentation do you see now presentation yes we can see it okay trouble so beyond zero so let me explain now that about the auto strategy so this is our vision for environment made six years ago our target is new vehicles zero emission life cycle zero emission plan zero emission minimizing and optimizing water usage and so on so this is our commitment to the society we will implement this however our target is not just reduce emission and achieve that zero emission our mission is to create a ever better society much more than the zero emission which is beyond zero while we are focusing now on the autonomous driving mass application vehicle robotics fuel cell vehicles and boats and new city with hydrogen energy our ultimate goal is to be the mass production of people's happiness through our leading electrification technology and mobility innovation people's happiness that's why toyota also focus on the sports we are the global partner of both olympic and paralympic sports provide us a positive energy sports can inspire the people and the sports can provide the solidarity in our society in this corona pandemics we need this power of sports much more more than before i'm sure that you agree with this and the toyota's another vision is mobility for all this means that we want to provide a free-to-move for all humankind able people people with disability young people and elderly so mobility is very important factor for humans life so let me move the environment data so this is a result of the co2 emission power vehicle by the manufacturer in 2019 the cafe regulation is 95 gram per kilometer by 2020 toyota is the only company which has below 100 and we will achieve a common target in 2020 we are still waiting for the result into 2020. and this is a chart of a monthly car registration by fuel type in europe in july 2020 it is the first time that the electrified electrified vehicle exceeded the volume of diesel which is very good in 2019 actually had only 11 but now 25 big jump and this is the same chart but only for the evs as you can see the biggest increase was hybrid vehicles hybrid hybrid vehicles are also included in electric vehicles and this is our strength and this is a forecast by the aihs for every powertrain up to 2030. as you can see majority of the market for evs will be hybrid which is blue phav is light blue and pure electric and fcv are green sorry this is a chart by manufacturer for the first half of 2020. lexus has more than 95 percent electrified and toyota is more than 60 percent electrified and this is by the country in eu uh croatia is a better than middle which it has a 118.3 in the 2019 which is very very good however the challenge for croatia is that uh this this is the chart of for the percentage of fuel type by country in eu as of august in 2020 croatia is the second lowest country in the 21 countries in eu in terms of percentage of electrified vehicle many countries has a more a hybrid speakers or a phv which is darkly under and green as well as a pure electric electric light green so to the strategy so we have any kind of powertrain listed here we are ready to private any kind of powertrain and our strategy is to provide the best suitable powertrain based on the country's infrastructure and customer demand we believe pure electric vehicle should be for the short daily distance and the location accessing to plug for middle distance hybrid which is affordable with a more than 50 percent without running engine and for extra power phev for long distance and large vehicle fuel cell this is our view regarding our electrified technology we introduced the first hybrid vehicles in 2000 uh so we have already 20 years experience at the time nobody believed the technology but we constantly improve our technology and currently over 60 percent of our sales is hybrid in europe of course in uh we achieved more than 60 percent in croatia already in 2021 for our hybrid ratio so total hydrogen strategy so this is the first fuel cell vehicle in the world our mirai back at the end of the 2014 and we sold more than 10 000 vehicles so far of which more than one thousand in europe we made this vehicle even to create a hydrogen society we launched we launched the second generation of mirai and this has a longer distance up to 650 kilometer and only three to five minutes referring time we also use a fuel cell forklift in a factory in japan and also we are developing hydrogen buses and also hydrogen trucks in california and also working with a partner for the train as well in japan we also provide our fuel cell technology to our partners here are two examples kite on the bus in portugal and the energy observer energy observer is a fast fuel cell boat in the world with our technology for kaitenabas this is available already charging time is below nine minutes only but the production how to say the uh real time is a 10 month so we need to obtain the order uh if we customer need as possible many companies has been entering the market one after another and the need of the hydrogen and the fc technology has been increasing in variety of the applications so toyota has developed a product that the package a fuel cell system into the compact module and plan to begin selling in it in a spring up to 2021. so these are the areas that uh we are thinking as a partners and also totally revealed a plan to build a prototype of city of the future on the 175 acre site at the base of mountain fuji in japan called the urban city it will be a fully connected ecosystem powered by hydrogen fuel cells hydrogen should be made by renewable energy but more than that fcev can be the good energy storage and the career for the hydrogen produced by the green energy and then today the group company has a u.s energy as an affiliated company focusing a wind power plant in the world we want to use this power to generate the green hydrogen in europe our sister company that social europe is trying to offer to bus operators one stop service for hydrogen meaning green hydrogen from the windmill hydrogen station as well as the fc buses with after sales and finance in germany if we succeed this we might be able to do the same in croatia then but that we need partners for your information we also run the hydrogen station in japan to station and six mobility station but the profitability is really challenging so from our calculation we need at least 50 fc buses or 800 miles to be a break even so as uh ankit's already explained that we are working uh very close with the university of the split and the university of the zagreb so this is his only show so i skip so these are the hydrogen by the country so you know very well so i can skip but a lot of countries focus on hydrogen now and this is a list of the subsidies in each country and then currently our focus in the buses and you can see the grants or for the high fc buses so you can see that in uh in the germany eighty percent of the gap between fc bus and these airbus will be supported by the government and also 80 percent the funding of the total investment in infrastructure is covered and the 25 percent of funding for electricity so these fundings is necessary to start a hydrogen society so today's uh takeaway is toyota is ready to provide the fc vehicle mirai and fc bus title bus right now number two toyota is looking for the partner about the poc proof of concept for hydrogen business to start from the start in croatia for example vehicle on the bus cities government universities companies hydrogen production side power company energy company and so on so we we are looking for the uh discussion with all of you if we can have a partnership to uh start at this a proof of concept so far aleppa thank you very much for your opportunity to talk so see you soon thank you for your presentation very interesting and thank you for being so quick with so many slides uh this brings us to the end of our conference what we scheduled so far uh i would like to thank all the speakers i would like to thank the audience for there is still 110 them of of you are listening to the end of this uh conference uh i have let me check if there are any questions uh no but there is a comment that we should announce a conference at mipro uh later this spring in opatia ankita can you say a word yes thank you um we are organizing a regional hydrogen energy conference within mipro convention this may in apathya croatia right so um i'm inviting you all to make your participation we will organize the round tables and i also hope we will have more info about the national hydrogen strategy and i'm expecting to have some guests from the region and from the europe also from hydrogen europe and i'm i'm expecting a part of scientific presentations i am expecting um a lot of useful and constructive discussions on on green energy transition based on hydrogen and that we see solutions and directions how we can make collaboration uh on a regional uh and european uh european uh levels so um for sure i will contact some of you to to be my guests i'm a founder and chair of of this conference this is the first time it is organized uh with the with the huge help of me pro so i i think we will be able to organize it in a person and there are also of course according to the pandemia the option to to take participation virtually so maybe we will have everything like this what is also okay right to stay safe but if if the conditions will be good um we will also have uh have uh in person uh some presentations and the round table uh combined uh with the with the online so yeah be my guest thank you yeah thank you thank you uh with this i will close this event i said i i think it was a very interesting for me i hope it was interesting for you that the remain to the end to listen to this uh we should actually consider having another one maybe by the end of the year uh we'll have more information about the ongoing projects and the new projects uh so we'll see how it goes maybe next year maybe at the same time we have another a workshop like this thank you all very much and thank you to the organizers again croatian uh academy of technical sciences uh croatian hydrogen association and universities uh westbound bay and uh of course is davis who provided all the technical support you guys were great everything went very smoothly thank you very much bye everyone bye [Music] bye

Channel: SDEWES Centre

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Id: s4hbYmQbTU0

Length: 208min 50sec (12530 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 05 2021