​​​​​​​German National Hydrogen Strategy – Overview and Q&A

it's three o'clock in Germany and it's Wednesday well really easy for our guests that joined us the last week's its webinar time with mission hydrogen I'm really really happy that you are here I see that we have for now over 550 people live but I'm pretty sure it will go up for a much more greater number because we have a lot of registrants over two and a half thousand Richardson some we had so let's see how many people will join in the next hour hour and a half it depends on your questions afterwards yeah here today German national hydrogen strategy overview and Q&A I'm really happy that we have the cooperation of our national hydrogen strategy series with the German hydrogen and fuel cell association we had two parts with vanity violet in the last week's it was only in German and then we got a lot of interest from the english-speaking people of our network and so we decided to cooperate with the German Federal Ministry of Transport and digital infrastructure and dr. Klaus borne of the head of the fundamental Affairs Department is today our co-host and also the speaker and we decided to make a webinar for you together so it's perfect because then you will get all the information that you perhaps out in the internet now really live on stage and from a source you can really trust in and you get it in English so I want to ask the colleagues in Berlin if they are here and yes they are so that's pretty fine we see them in the right corner and you can adjust yourself a little bit I will tell you our guest of mission hydrogen some short charts I think you know that when you have joined another webinar from us who are we we are mission hydrogen and we started in March and we will connect and promote the hydrogen people and promote the hydrogen technology itself and for that we are really looking forward to spread the word of the National hydrogen strategy the next webinar for tomorrow I just wanted to tell you it's how to optimize hydrogen refueling station it's more technical webinar it's with Steve Matheson from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and Steve will tell us some news about really efficient fueling of hydrogen and also really really interesting I'm pretty sure amy adams will join us on July 22 she's from Cummins the vice president for fuel cells in hydrogen and she will speak about the common strategy zero carbon transportation by 2050 is it possible I recommend that it tomorrow it's at five German time CET and on July 22 it's at 4 o'clock so don't miss it and perhaps if you have missed it you can buy the webinar collection and then you get the whole year in our past and future two webinars in the webinar collection and you can have the world class hydrogen knowledge of our experts whenever you want 24/7 a day so our webinar sponsor I'm it's important for me to also tell you that we have got sponsors that we are joining today also booked up to hexagon and Neyman and SF our gold sponsors and yeah you can see them now and the last thing that I wanted to tell you again it's our hydrogen online conference probably the largest online event this year it's only virtual because you know cuz of the corner situation we don't know how big we can meet in in fall this year but for sure on October 8th it's no problem because it's only online and you can have your free early bird ticket right now my colleague is posting it on the chat and I can see there are a lot of people in by the way you can it's really cool for us to see how many countries are in and from which can you are joining so when you can hear me just give us a note from where do you come from from which country that would be cool so we can do that in parallel also for the hawk for the hydrogen online conference we have some sponsors you can see them now it's pocket compression and Nell and the Californian hydrogen fuel cell partnership and helps a technique so you can have the silver or gold ticket if you want the recordings afterwards it's also possible for sure and the last chart from me for the hello for today is our interesting speakers and as some charts are from the n o W that close bahnhof will bring to us in the next minutes I want to tell you that also code christopher noblest of the new speaker of the CEO from n o W is also a speaker in our Hawk so I will switch the slides and stop it right now I will make my camera off and there you go when a device is one of you are here so the state is yours when I just start what like I would also like to welcome you all to the third webinar on the national hydrogen strategy also to you Klaus thank you for coming to our German hydrogen associations that is studio in Berlin that the German hydrogen and fuser Association work on the strategy paper adopted in June and I think that was a 6g of June so it's a few days ago Yahoo its brand new it's the first step forward towards the market launch of hydrogen technologies and applications in Germany and if you compare the European hydrogen as you say strategy I think we have done a good job we have 38 measures and the rest must be implemented rapid and ambitiously in the next year's and the target must be that we are not only the pioneers we want to be the leader of the technology in the next year's and creating lot of new jobs in Germany and I think the trends that we have now is very big but on the other side where we have to use now the trends we have to go forward we have to come out from the research phase in the realization phase we need now market projects market introduction of the next projects they are 2 billion euros for international markets nouns and I think around 7 billion euros for them national market so there is a lot of money which we can use in the next 3-5 years and that's not the question for that we use the money what we do now and the first step what is the most first important step to really create a new UN renew time for for the enact even deaf German courts in a given the South Inc know we have to move in the next space to grow to promote this process the German hydrogen future association was set up an expert Commission to support the various bodies of the national models and thirdly with technical expertise in implementing the measurements and at this point I'm pleased to hand over to Klaus to you who has worked intensively on the strategy and can now you the contents of strategy at the first hand I think that is really in process the things or things it's not nothing nothing is really clear and so it's more important well very interesting to hear really from the from the center of the hydrogen strategy what happens in the moment and what we can expect in the next things or weeks so the floors you are thank you very much for the kind introduction Zuko also my thanks to you and to mission hydrogen for organizing this and obviously Vanna thank you for hosting me here at the studio of the German hydrogen fuel cell sociation welcome everybody around the globe I guess if I followed the comments in the chat room it is quite remarkable to see that from all over the world actually people are joining this this conference call or this presentation so thank you very much for that it is somewhat a challenge to speak into this black box here not seeing any faces behind it but I know you are there and I'm pretty sure we have a lot of also old friends of mine that have come a long way on developing hydrogen technologies and I'm pretty sure we have a lot of new friends and new actors in the scene that now see the opportunity for hydrogen and fuel so technologies arising so it's a pleasure for me to give you a brief overview over the National hydrogen strategy where we are what we have defined but as Vanna was rightly saying it is work in progress we have marked I leave a very important milestone with the National hydrogen strategy but based on the work that we all in this field have been doing over the last decade we all do understand that things have to progress further so with this new milestone not only in Germany if you look at the at other member states in Europe if you at the European Commission if you look at other countries around the globe we see hydrogen strategies being presented being developed and I think this is a very good time to really exchange and make sure that we all work together in being successful so I'm you see I probably have to use this one here for the slides yes very good so the National hydrogen Strategy was actually adopted by our federal cabinet by our government a couple of weeks ago it is really and I'd like to stress that and into ministerial strategy of the federal government and really one of the key points because when we started discussing developing this kind of strategy about a year ago the key point is that with this approval of the strategy of the German government the message is very clear that hydrogen and for that matter green hydrogen will have to play a major role in any upcoming energy system so this is really an important message and this is not to say that it's the only solution in the energy space but it has to be one of the pillars in moving forward to make sure that we use more renewables in the energy system and that in the end we reduce co2 and then reach our sector specific co2 reduction targets I'll talk about that in a minute so we didn't start from scratch we have in Germany some of you know this for quite some time the International Innovation Program hydrogen fuel so technologies so based on those activities we now have a program that combines these ongoing things and also adds new measures and I'll talk about the measures in the hydrogen strategy in a minute so the definition of additional measures is part of the strategy 38 to be concrete and vanna has mentioned the figures seven billion euro are within the federal budgets to implement the National hydrogen strategy plus an extra two billion euro to specifically address international partnerships and activities based on these national activities and as I said earlier the focus is on green hydrogen you may have followed the discussion and yes there were some disappointments that we didn't release this strategy earlier this year I think now the timing is very perfect to really make sure that people understands that moving forwards under the specific circumstances that we have now economic crisis that we design recovery programs that hydrogen is a major topic in the in this recovery program it's the single largest measure in the federal government's recovery program on the on the innovation side so I think it is quite quite good to have this now and yes green hydrogen is our focus which doesn't exclude other colored hydrogen from the markets but to be very clear the German government is focusing its funding on systems and applications around the green hydrogen side one of the motivations I mentioned that decarbonisation AG system as a whole the German government has passed a climate action law in October 2000 nineteen so not even a year ago where sector specific co2 reduction targets were defined obviously me coming from the Ministry of Transportation we're responsible for the co2 reduction in the transportation sector but you can see that overall each sector energy building transport industry agriculture they will all have to contribute to co2 reduction and hydrogen will be one of the elements in one of the technologies to realize these co2 reduction targets speaking about transportation we have a larger set of measures to address co2 reduction in the end is about the electrification of the drivetrain with batteries and fuel cells also including respective infrastructure activities we obviously try to maximize usage of non Road applications which are more efficient and many other measures but really the the electrification and in that hydrogen fuel technologies are one of the key activities in our programs that we already have or will see in the very near future to address this and to support this we have the National hydrogen strategy which doesn't stand alone which nicely fits into a set of other programs and plans not only on a federal level but also on a more regional level or state level we have ongoing funding activities in the climate's arena we have since some of you may be familiar with this community for quite a while the National Innovation Program for hydrogen fuel technologies so this hydrogen strategy doesn't stand alone it is part of the broader mix and fits nicely into into a set of measures as I said it's an inter-ministerial strategy so I'd like to stress that points that each ministry within the federal government has its respective responsibilities and collectively the government's the various ministries have the targets to establish Germany as a leading market in the hydrogen fuel cell technology as I pointed out we have the responsibility to fulfill our national climate targets and we see our role specifically as Germany also as an exporting country as an innovation country as a automotive country as an industrial country we see obviously the opportunities around exporting of technology and resources so there is a clear political driver behind this before I dig deeper into the strategy itself let me just highlight this one slide here that our colleagues from our National Organization for hydrogen fuel cells have developed won't go into details the message is we clearly believe that we will need a an integrated energy system that will have to be build upon renewable energy sources which is what you see here on the upper left hand corner so photovoltaic and wind as an input into the energy system with various infrastructures that will have to be deployed in parallel these are these rings here if you want to so obviously a direct use of electricity also for transportation you can see that all the transportation modes here in the upper right hand corner but then also the need for transforming electrons into molecules to become more flexible to make sure that we can use renewable energy in a more independent way timewise independently and also geographically more independently to then make use of hydrogen in the transportation sector and also using green hydrogen as a feedstock for any synthetic fuels that can be derived out of that and then an integrated energy system that will have to have mobility industry buildings the heat markets the power sector all these things collectively in focus so with that I would like to talk about the various aspects that are covered in the National hydrogen strategy we are as I said assuming a global responsibility we are obviously now set up to play our role here but we do want to do this collectively with others green hydrogen becoming a competitive energy carrier is definitely one of the targets and yes we do want to shape a domestic hydrogen market and again don't understand this as a black-and-whites that this will replace everything else no gradually hydrogen will have to come into various usage we'll have to come into the industry sector will have to decarbonize our system and in parallel to that other technologies will play their role as well and and yes in the end we do want to enable hydrogen produced based on renewable energies in Germany but also in other parts of the world in Europe but also globally we've had in the government a very detailed discussion on potentials that we have nationally versus the needs that we will have to also import hydrogen or renewable energies in form of hydrogen in whatever energy carrier form this is again something where the world is not like in white so we do want to secure a global market and want to play our role in that obviously supporting science research and technology and innovation is key also training specialists is key we need the know-how within the people to make these things happen and again I highlighted that we want to do International hydrogen activities and to strengthen our energy partnerships in that field so with the next slides I will very quickly go through the individual measures because I would rather have time here during the seminar for your questions and hopefully vana and I can provide you with some answers so please bear with me if I very quickly go through the next slide and obviously the documents the national hydrogen strategy can be downloaded also an English version is available so please don't hesitate to download that it's on the website the English version especially is on the website of our friends from the ministry for Economic Affairs and energy so you'll easily find that here's the time frame that we were looking at within our strategy we're targeting 2030 and we are fully aware that within the next 10 years we need to see a market ramped up in an initial phase but then really the star of largest scale commercial applications and this is what we do want to support with also federal funding but not only funding also regulatory frameworks I'll talk about that in a minute so the 38 measures do cover everything from hydrogen production via hydrogen usage infrastructure and supply questions to research education and innovation and we're looking at European and global activities and the 7.2 billion euros have been mentioned already we have a governance structure so each ministry will be responsible to implement their respective programs with their respective budgets we make sure that in a forum of state secretaries we have an exchange within the government to make sure that we don't double our efforts but that we actually are well aligned in implementing the individual programs and then we also have a national hydrogen Council with 26 experts in their field covering all fields of applications all fields of hydrogen technologies from science to industry and also the association's looking at the civil society so a good mix of all the stakeholders involved actually the first meeting of the National hydrogen Council took place last week so it was inaugurated and we have a next working meeting then coming up in September to then identify the focus areas that the National hydrogen Council will focus on first because they cannot obviously do everything at the same time on the hydrogen production side we have a set of measures that are specifically looking into the question how to identify and motivate a framework for more electrolyzers in the market and we've set a target of 5 gigawatts installed capacity by 2030 and then we all know that the time until 2030 is only the begin that we will move on beyond that looking towards even 2035 2040 2050 carbon neutrality by 2050 is one of the targets that we have as the German government as well so individual measures look at the regulatory framework the experts here in this room do know that hydrogen costs mainly depend on the price the power price when we talk about electrolyzer technology so this is something that we will address we will look into specific opportunities in offshore wind areas and hope to enable new business and cooperation models so electrolyzer is a key technology when we talk about implementation of the national hydrogen strategy if you look at the various usage sectors well with the Ministry of Transportation so bear with me if I start with the transport sector we will continue to build our network of hydrogen stations we will have later this year 100 hydrogen refueling stations for passenger cars on the ground in Germany for those of you that have not looked into the detail h2 dotted life is the website where you can follow progress where you can online see the sites that are in operation and you will find out that even today a nationwide coverage is possible and with the fuel cell vehicle you can drive throughout the country and that also includes some neighboring countries that also start building networks obviously vehicles on the street on the road on rail in the air in water wherever it may be are key for implementing hydrogen fuel so technologies in the transportation sector so we will come up with even extended funding programs to support purchases of vehicles and we will support this with further ramp up of infrastructure including also more specific infrastructure for rail for heavy-duty trucks and for specific applications a set of regulatory activities that are important in this context the implementation of the Renewable Energy Directive this was agreed in the National hydrogen strategy will be even more aggressive and this does include then making use of renewable energies in the transportation sector and in industry uses like refineries the alternative fuels infrastructure directive European directive where also hydrogen is included will be revised by the European Commission next year Germany took over the presidency of the European Council in beginning of this month so just a few days ago and as part of our activities we will collect also here input for a novel laser or for improvement of the outfit which especially will look into customer specific topics into harmonization of technologies so this will be one of the keys we also have the targets to specifically address in funding activities our supply industry or we are you know almost almost look at the vehicles in more detail but vehicles need components and subsystems so especially for Germany the supply industry is key so we derive measures for them to specifically support them and then the clean Viggo's directive will require public fleets to become more and more clean so also here implementing this directive with opportunities for fuel cell vehicles and others is is also part of the agenda and then we believe that international harmonization of standards regulation codes and standards is very important to accelerate technology development globally so we are very interested to to participate in that also in more detail obviously there's a role for industry here as government we want to support that as much as possible we have our ongoing Highland activities in Germany we're on a regional level we develop hydrogen networks where different applications will have to come into reality so this is part of the National Innovation Program that we will continue to support and we will see more funding opportunities in this context as well if I look at the other applications beyond transportation we have the industrial use of hydrogen so a set of measures that are looking into specifically markets for green hydrogen where can we substitute existing industrial usage where today gray hydrogen's being used where can we enable decarbonisation of additional processes steel industry is one of the shining examples here because the hydrogen need for this specific application would be rather large so this could be potentially one of the drivers to also increase hydrogen production with electrolyzers we then have heat and building as one of our sectors where we continue to support and this is again our friends from the Ministry of Energy and Economic Affairs the CHP the combined heat and power markets also looking into what we call hydrogen ready installations so gradually shifting from natural gas applications to hydrogen applications in the heat sector infrastructure and hydrogen for hydrogen supply is another headline with a few measures that we have here in this context so here we will have various stakeholder processes to identify the need for action actually in the end what we need is a demand driven increase of infrastructure hydrogen today is a commodity in the industry sector so we know how to handle hydrogen but with these new applications coming up I guess we need to more intensively look into these demands driven infrastructure needs that will then have to be addressed in specific measures research education and innovation is important as the knowledge phase for these activities so we have ongoing R&D activities what we call these real life labs if you want to that are an ongoing funding stream stream but we will see even cross ministry research campaigns to identify new fields that haven't been addressed so far or possibly where with extra money we could identify other fields of possibly more fundamental research that will be needed so innovation is key to also make sure that we have the right people and the right knowledge base for for the activities that are ahead of us moving to the international measures I think this picture is quite well known from the IEA study on hydrogen that was presented to about a year ago and obviously there are regions in this worlds that are blessed with cheap renewable energies based on wind and photovoltaic and wherever that is the case obviously there is an economic potential to produce hydrogen to make these renewable energies transportable tradable so we don't see Germany as an island but we see a necessity to develop our own renewable energies but we also do see a need for trading energy on a European scale and also on a global scale so this is something that will be addressed on a European scale we do want to work with our fellow Member States and the European Commission to establish standards for sustainability and quality so we should avoid competition in an early phase we should make sure that we have a clear system that is targeting sustainably produced hydrogen so this is something that will have to be addressed on a European scale and we do want to strengthen the European market as a whole through respective collaboration through various forms of programs that are under discussion and obviously we see these activities also as part of the Green Deal as part of the Green Deal again speaking about transportation the European Commission will also come forward with a new mobility strategy sustainable and smart mobility strategy and again as part of our European presidency within the next month we will provide our inputs what we call from a Ministry of Transportation point of view our new mobility approach so address climate change address co2 reduction by innovation and hydrogen and fuel technologies are clearly a part of that so we also want to make sure that as part of the Green Deal activities and the recovery programs that are being discussed in Europe at this point in time this technology is also addressed beyond that internationally we see the energy partnerships that are ongoing and some may be new again for transportation we would like to look into fueling international refueling or fueling partnerships so there will be dialogues with individual countries in different formats to make sure that a global trading of hydrogen will become possible and that we gradually develop this technology into mass market and into real economic means so almost my last slide next to one last slide we have ongoing activities that we continue to support nationally European wide and internationally so we do want to build upon these networks to implement our strategy to work together with other countries and make hydrogen fuel cell technologies a global success because again in the end we need it as one of the pillars in towards a and integrated renewably based energy system last slide before I probably hand back to Zuka I guess 4q a pilot project in partner countries when the government decided on the national hazard strategy one of the press releases from our ministry for economic know was it called DMZ sorry for that I'll come up with the right word I mean if there are colleagues from bmz please bear with me I will come up with the English expression our ministry that is working with especially developing countries so we have here already international cooperation we have here already specific activities with Morocco and other countries being you know under discussion so this rounds up my presentation for those of you that haven't seen the document yet it may be quite a bit at one time but I was actually expressively rushing through it to make sure we have enough time for Q&A so thank you very much until this point and I'm open for questions and answers so Thank You Klaus for this perfect overview words I think it was everything was announced I think the most important conclusion from the strategy is that we now move really in you try to move in a in a in a market design that we try to create a market design for for implementation the the hydrogen in the market there of course some research topics are nouns but a lot of things are really if the hope I think that is very important for the industry to this message that it's more than a technology research strategy it's really a market strategy to ramp up hydrogen technologies in the next years true that's a little bit where we come from I mean if we haven't had the programs we've seen over the last even more than 10 years we would not have the technology at hands that we today have and obviously the research and development at the time was also dedicated towards specific applications and when I was talking about a hundred hydrogen stations in Germany that is not only because of R&D but that is also because of starting implementation in the market but you are right with this national ocean strategy we now can take a large step huge step forward in accelerating some of these activities and really enter into a more energy meaningful dimension of hydrogen technologies yes so I know that a lot of industry companies has a little bit was hopeful out that the the targets a little bit more ambitious but I think we have now 2020 and the thuggees on the table and perhaps we discuss it in the next year's and receivers happened and Buckhannon and included in the twenty thirty three or whatever you will see what happens in the next years in my view it's really a good phase to ramp up and to start now in in the hydrogen economic I think that is most for me the most important message if we look back see you know analyze what we hadn't heaven and 18 months ago I think was unbelievable that we have this ambitious strategy on the table I think we must see it from this view from this side and and now we have to use our trans and take our opportunity and they are surprised or curious curious what now the questions from the attendance are so I'll give it back to you and yeah thank you coordinate now or everything yes you can be really excited even on trust because we have a lot of questions just let me count the first ones it's about 4045 questions so close thank you very much for being in time because then we can hopefully answer all of those questions or for sure give some links to other institutions as we did in your hydrogen economy talks of the German fuel cell and hydrant Association last week so just let's start the first round I'm going on the very top of the questions Amish table or stable asks in which part falls the reduction of co2 in building heating well co2 reduction in building and heating in the end there's this whole set of measures not my field of expertise this isn't a responsibility for the Ministry of Economic Affairs and energy but obviously energy efficiency plays a huge role making sure that we have we reduce the heat demand in houses and there's over time more and more renewable energies and passive energy systems will come into place ok so I can see there are a lot of questions that are not about the national hydrogen strategy but yes I will I will tell them to you and then we have to decide how we want to proceed because there are also some chemists questions in and so for today it's not so easy to to look at them so let's see what the next one Stefan in Qatar law is asking can you give us an idea of the total amount of energy wind solar you have to generate to produce sufficient amount of hydrogen to media strategy requirements we set the target of 5 gigawatts by 2030 this obviously would then serve the individual hydrogen markets we all don't have the crystal ball to really know what volumes we will see in transportation how fast the steel sector will actually decarbonize just to give you an example from the transportation side our assumption for heavy-duty trucking based on hydrogen fuel cell drive trains alone would represent a market of around about 1.5 to 2 gigawatts of electrolyzer by 2030 so the signal of 5 gigawatt really is the message scale-up is now and we hope to see more we may see less but 5 gigawatt is a meaningful target the things the fact you know the national market I think we have to be say it clear that means not that we have great coveted by 5 gigawatt or buy this 14 terawatt-hours which is mentioned out in the strategy and the strategies mentioned out also that we will increase the hydrogen uses about 55 care about ours anywhere and for that we need 20 gigawatt so there is a possibility for the export market for the technology expert 15 gigawatt around that and I think of course that is a challenge but that is addition the possibility do to create on the one side in this 3 market and on the other side the open the chance to import renewable energies to Germany and I think we have to start very early to prove it and to develop this yeah energy you mentioned all of this national corporations between other member states who have the resource of the possibility to install a lot of renewable energies but I think because I think it's very important and you have to say it very clear the hydrogen story makes only sense if he install enough renewable energies and bring both together so that we have really emission free hydrogen or produced hydrogen that is very important and there that is trans on the other side okay so remain with hydrogen production topic Patty's mantra is asking you can also produce hydrogen from biomass including solid municipal waste it requires less energy how is it considered in the German strategy excluded when I talked about especially the European necessity to define sustainable hydrogen clearly this is one of the pathways we then do understand that's the overall potential for biomass is somewhat limited but by no means any sustainable path for hydrogen production is excluded okay and another one it's more chemical from high or seek ban is hydrogen from chlor-alkali electrolyze is also green by-product that will be part of the discussion on the sustainability criteria what kind of co2 footprint individual pathways will be accounted for okay and think it's about the employees topic it's from Gabriel Silva what kind of effort is Germany doing to attract foreigners a skilled workforce and to attract partnerships on a global scale we do have our energy partnerships with very specific formats this is true for our colleagues from the ministry for Economic Affairs and energy this is also true from for our ministry for for research and education they have innovation dialogues with individual countries so in those context is we will lead those discussions and hopefully come to more collaboration okay and now comes a question from Lisa Mackenzie she got some applause in the chat for this question so I'm really really happy to ask that now hi Lisa Lisa Meccan CEO is asking how is the German government planning to spend the European 2 billion funding set site for international hydrogen partnerships how can foreign companies get involved one of the discussions that is now upcoming we're so far glad to have this clear also international perspective in our strategy and to have a clear also budgets set aside for this this would be within the responsibilities of my colleagues from the other ministries to work on those programs okay falcomon is asking how does the massive funding of a vehicle's relate to a hydrogen funding of fuel cell vehicles and transport electric mobility law defines electric vehicles to be those with batteries and with fuel cell technologies so fuel cell vehicles are electric vehicles any funding purchase funding environment bonus for electric vehicles in Germany is also eligible for fuel cell vehicles on the infrastructure side we have funding opportunities as Ministry of Transportation in a if you want to technology open or neutral way addressing recharging infrastructure as well as hydrogen infrastructure on specific programs that will come up on buses on heavy-duty trucks on specialty vehicles all these will also be technology neutral addressing zero emission vehicles and that can be battery vehicles that can be fuel cell vehicles so we as Ministry of Transportation are very clear that fuel cells are part of the electric world so Roberto Giuliano is asking what costs euro per kilogram do you expect for hydrogen at the fuel pump so in the moment we you see that we have a prize it's negation price of 950 per kilogram I expect that this area this price will be reduced in the next years it depends of course on production costs of hydrogen but in the end it will be around 8 euros and them depends on the state how many texts it needs to cover the other tasks of state but the thing that's realistic between eight and nine fifty are really on the pump or the filling station and I think this price is acceptable because then 100 meter cost the same not today for a passenger car for a truck and so that is not really the question if either C fuse mobility in the next year's I think it depends more on the availability of cars and trucks and so on that is more the challenge than the price okay and and I see a question in the chat right now 8 euro in which year is helical Indic asking 29 and the same memo on the same level then the price we're not going down but if we increase it now how its mentioned out in the strategy then we will see the price in 2030 okay so let's see it's hydrogen mixing hydrogen topping Federico al-qaeda bull Allah is asking what are the main challenges to begin mixing hydrogen with natural gas up to a 5% what should not make a big difference in the natural gas system but a big difference in hydrogen demand and begin the scaling up of green hydrogen production together with the markets we know that even higher hydrogen mixtures are safely possible we also know that we have applications that are very sensitive to varying hydrogen demand hydrogen content international gas personally I think we will rather see fewer hydrogen distribution and usage but let's see where market opportunities are going to be I get two I think we see Sunnah pure hydrogen pipes of the switching from natural gas to pro hydrogen then we believe today it will become really really fast and it depends more on the demand on the using of hydrogen in the industry sector but it's not really depending on the infrastructure of course we have now to start to make the hydrogen infrastructure h2 ready that thing very important message especially to our of German federal agency yeah federal agency that they accept the additional costs for the h2 readiness but it's not really trying I think we have to start it now and I have the feeling that they come in the next 12 months and then we come very soon and this will also have to be European discussion so looking at what our neighbors are doing especially in the Netherlands I think clearly shows the path where we're moving towards okay something for stationary applications from Maqsood hassan off that's the national hydrogen strategy consider the support for individual household owners willing to install hydrogen technologies electrolyzers hydrogen storage etc such as subsidies like it did for PV installations in place is a funding scheme from our ministry for economic affairs and energy for combined heat and power systems fuel cell systems being fed by natural gas more autonomous systems looking into you know small D surendra electrolyzers is obviously something that does make sense we don't see those commercially yet so when those come into the market I think this needs to be discussed okay and another application agricultural Alex gaunt is counter gand is asking how will German governments support green hydrogen shift in agricultural farming setting for any new application that comes into the markets so so far we haven't seen vehicles being proposed to the market but we're obviously very open for those the strategies technology neutral sort addressed all sectors okay application shipping Sonia Andres is asking are there any measures funding programs regarding the utilization of hydrogen and hydrogen derived fuels in shipping coastal and global plant concretely within the ongoing national innovation program already the funding opportunity for fuel cell installations on ships so we have ongoing projects there and are in continuous discussion with the industry how to move forward this is using either hydrogen directly and then we have or then using LNG or other energy carriers based on the National hydrogen strategy where we look into the question of how to get green hydrogen molecules into applications we have a separate program on synthetic fuels this is based on our climate change program that was decided last year where we will look into the production of synthetic fuels especially for the heart to decarbonize markets this is err as well as maritime so yes this is also part of the programs that we are having or developing and another field for cardamon is our yes saying and asking a transportation okay but how about industry any progress in hydrogen utilization in steel industry petroleum refineries fertilizer industry talking about refineries the renewal of the reg - or the implementation of the Renewable Energy Directive part - into German law will address the use of hydrogen in refineries so this will I guess be a very clear market signal for electrolyzer capacity ramped up in that specific application steel industry I guess we'll have to look into the very specific investment cycles that this industry has and obviously the steel industry has very high costs targets in regards to the hydrogen they could make advantage take advantage of so this will be up for further discussion for my colleagues from from different ministries fertilizer industry ammonia is one of the carriers for hydrogen that is being discussed this is a very well established industry so if market opportunities arise there I'm pretty sure people will take advantage of it and for the refineries it's mentioned out - gigawatt so there's a concrete number on the table they were the fund that first megawatt in in the next two years so it comes really soon okay back to mobility Avinash Shetty car is asking between bio LNG and renewable hydrogen which is more iconic economical for transport vehicles look at the cost of fuel but at your holes system and obviously internal combustion engines which will be needed for any LNG or national gas applications are you know much more into the markets and down the cost curve then then fuel cell drive trains ultimately total cost of ownership calculations do show that using hydrogen in fuel cell drive trains are very cost competitive compared to other options and another question is it's because training Christian muffins hi Christian nice if you're also here a lot of Germans but well also worldwide here is is that the people are joining Christian man-hands is asking is the development and conduction of training supported as the title of that specific ministry is research and and education and we have these kind of measures in our program I'm sure they will check take care of these things all right since you gave it all from an attraction Berlin is asking its in German I just have to translate it is there a date for the publishing of the new funding programs in the NIP well the ni p is an existing funding program which is implementing by individual funding calls we actually are now on the preparation to issue more calls on specific heavy duty community vehicles on specific hydrogen production for transportation needs and for fuel cell installations on critical infrastructure so this is as we speak in our operational pipeline to come online very very soon so please regularly check the website of n o w to make sure that you don't miss once they're out okay question a geographical question from Monica Kosh haveli year do you have any plans to launch or tap Indian market if yes then for what sectors based on the extent of Indian subcontinent you can come comment on the possibilities of tapping India's markets in working group with the Indian government on sustainable transportation we regularly discuss joint opportunities for automotive sector with a focus on battery electric mobility but also addressing fuel cell technologies in that context but at this point in time based on my knowledge we don't have a concrete program but it's very interesting that suddenly there's a challenge with international countries everybody want to be a partner with Germany and the thing that you can say everybody if some countries are interested they must be must be sent in a request to Germany and to open to Germany to be ready to cooperate it was really perhaps for Germany a good situation but it's very interesting what happens suddenly at the time vivi meant we announced the strategy that some me or the countries around the world are interested to cooperate this Germany so important hydrogen as a next topic Michael o Mahoney is asking if Germany will import green hydrogen Mayer C ship C ships is this likely to be green ammonia or liquid hydrogen lol o HC that's an open question there is no perfect winner and I'm not sure there will be one even in 10 years all these various systems methanol ammonia l o HC liquid have their pros and cons it will up will be up to the industrial partners in the markets to decide what route they would like to go we will not as the German government take any technology decision that should be taken by the markets okay from India to Scotland or to Great Britain David Scrimgeour is asking is the plan to also cooperate with the UK Scotland although Britain is no longer a member of the EU brexit discussions do give us a heartache but we're obviously open to any kind of international collaboration okay perfect so doctor it's about production of hydrogen and dr. manic Prakash arabela is asking which countries you feel are having more potential for production of more hydrogen yeah I think yeah I mentioned it out where the cheapest cost hydrogen around the world and it depends off of course of the free landscape so I think we sometimes look a little bit too far I think you have to look in the European Union - so there's in Spain Portugal Romania Bulgaria a lot of space and the wind and Sun resources are very well so you can't reduce they're really cheap hydrogen but also if I look to crane there are free pipelines which be able to transport hydrogen to Germany or to the European Union it depends a little bit on this North stream discussion so there's three capacity there's a lot of free and landscaped but also in Africa so I think it's very wide possibilities to import cheap hydrogen and we have now to look perhaps the earliest possibilities are to we can very fast realize the first project that is not only important to reach our targets climate targets it's also important for us to implement the the industry and ramp up the industry especially the electrolyzer industry yes so from ok and the last questions before we started the Q&A and then I would jump into the actual chat if we have some minutes left so to close and then I just give me a short information about how long do we have time for our guests because we have a lot of people in over 700 for now let's say another 10 minutes so I would have to actually jump out at 15 past 4:00 all right there you go then I will go ahead with Federico al-qaeda Buddha Allah is asking will the increasing demand of hydrogen result in the short term is a big increase in the production of gray hydrogen how does this national strategy aim to avoid that our funding activities clearly targets the production of green hydrogen at the same time within the applications we want hydrogen markets to grow so if market driven other coloured hydrogen enters the markets we will not close our borders for that but we will just not specifically support those with funding ok then we go to mobility to the powertrain some same well Kujo is asking hydrogen can be used as a replacement for natural gas in GA s combustion engines for production of power how prepared is Europe to reach this target so far as agender 2050 is concerned not sure if I understood the question correctly but using hydrogen directly for example in largest stationary gas turbine is obviously an interesting field for some of our industry so we'll see how development moves forward in that arena [Music] okay Alexander Merman is asking when will be the discussion about the color of hydrogen settled since the current definition is not technology open the European project called certify which has looked into different pathways for hydrogen and tries to develop a system to basically account for various co2 footprints including the zero emission pathways we in Germany clearly want to focus on the zero emission pathways I think we must be honest and see what happened in the past with CCS that's not really accepted by the public and I think that's not a good idea to start now the discussion in Germany blue hydrogen and then we stopped the hydrogen ramp up the origin story if we suddenly discuss CCS which is linked to to the hydrogen business so that is really not in my view not a good idea I think we have Rudy too to have a focus on the green hydrogen here strategy on zero emission that must be that is for me the important thing okay Alan Smith is saying and asking my company makes grid independent pure green hydrogen using waste materials I see very little about chemistry derived hydrogen in your plans will you be looking into this in the future you true and open so or hydrogen productions are welcome especially if they're based on annual energies and it depends in my view only on the price and truly on the accept the public and technology available but this there's not some production base of hydrogen phased out of the strategy it's really technology oh c'mon this neutral let me just add if you look at the various ministries of our government being involved and clearly have those that are looking into nero market opportunities so any hydrogen production will have to be measured against competitive pathways and cost obviously but then also we will see more research and development activities based on programs that our ministry for research and education will come up with so there is room for improvement obviously and depending on technology readiness level there will be funding opportunities if criteria are met which obviously is that is this targeting cheap production of green hydrogen ok another to question some the one question I can answer myself because it's about the recording for Peter bubonic um yes for sure the questions we try to answer all the questions from you here live in the Q&A but we will not have a written form afterwards because this would spread the the forum and for sure you can get access to the webinar collection afterwards and then you can see the recording one time five times ten times whenever and how often you want this is and for sure I have not spoken to the two man for now if we want to make another webinar but we can see this year if we have some more interests in and some more steps into the next weeks and months and in the progress of the National hydrogen strategy for sure we will have an eye on it and then you can have a look for a second English webinar national hydrogen strategy because I'm really sure there will come a lot of things so a question about hydrogen fueling station though I like this question not sealing hallouwe sealing hundred hydrogen fueling stations until 2021 was mentioned but this was the goal for end of 2019 and was not gained are there concrete plans for thousand fueling stations the h2 dot live website and I haven't checked that today you will probably notice online something like 86 or 87 stations and if you hit the future button in that app you will see that we will achieve the 100 later this year and yes sometimes timescales do slip a little bit but we are following our strategy which we as the German government have also written down in our national implementation plan of the alternative fuels infrastructure directive which says that we need an initial network of 100 stations independently of the number of vehicles to make sure that we have a nationwide coverage and this is what we have achieved based on that we will see a further ramp up depending on vehicle ramp up so we will have to follow that closely we will have to look into not only the passenger car segment but also the heavy-duty segment so I can only pledge for more vehicles to come to make sure that we take advantage of the existing network and that we continue to build it ok a strategy economical question from Klaus Allah Meyer shall Mya what risks to the success of the strategy have been identified so far obviously many risks in such a complex picture I would argue that the technology risk has been minimized over the last 10 years based on the R&D and demonstration activities that we have seen in the mark we see a very clear also industrial commitment to develop these markets if you look at the global hydrogen Council if you look at now some also European activities so obviously yes there are is we need to be careful to not open up another hype that in the end creates unfulfilled expectations but the clear signal is we can do this now but we all have to work together to make it happen okay and now it's nearly time out for you close so I will have one more question left and then look for the very last question Simon Hoffmann is asking how important in strategy is hydrogen which is end product in comparison with producing methane from hydrogen in power to gas plants as I said earlier we in parallel have also a program set up for synthetic fuels not necessarily methane more looking at power to liquids kerosene but also for other applications so this goes hand in hand any PTL plan will need green hydrogen molecules so we need a strong and successful hydrogen strategy implementation to make sure that we can also follow our path on the PTL side okay the very last question I think you can answer that quite fast is from Kathy Oliver hi Katya she's from the wind energy in Hamburg and I think this is useful for all of you you are right now in could you recommend a website with all current and relevant hydrogen project and programs in Germany technologies if they in the end cover all programs maybe not we have also regional programs very meaningful very very important so this is maybe something that we will have to develop further but I'm sure those colleagues will be happy to help if you need a little bit more informations or consulting then go to the German Arjun Association website get lots of information there ok so it's now the final end and I would like to thank you to our sponsors and again tell you that we have some more webinars tomorrow and for sure thank you for the notes today is Tuesday not Wednesday but tomorrow is Wednesday and then we have another webinar for our for optimizing hydrogen refueling stations and for next week the July 22 s the Commons Amy Adams vice president is speaking so a lot of things you can hear also in July and yeah thanks again and also Mark October 18 your calendar because of the hydrogen online conference and now I want to leave at the last words to you bows to our German experts in our today's webinar of mission hydrogen then German national hydrogen strategy Luca thank you for organizing this excellent webinar it's actually a very very fruitful feeling to be honest to see how the global interest is on hydrogen with almost a thousand online viewers with all the good questions and comments in the chat room which we try to follow as we speak which is difficult because there's so much coming in thank you for all your thank-yous so I hope this was valuable for you we're happy to continue our good work thank you very much and thank you to you cast coming here again so the second time and I think five days so we see how it will Robert thank you to all the attendants and especially thanks to Asuka for organization everything I think now we are in the beginning of next their era of in a given day and hydrogen will be play a major role in the next year's and I'm very hopeful that we have the next webinar perhaps in one year is ten thousand participants I'm sure that could be possible we will see and I wish you all good days healthy and have a nice week bye so thank you very off line with video camera and microphones but the chat will be open if there is anything you want to add and do that and in a few minutes I will close this life room and we will hear tomorrow or in the next days again here with mission hydrogen thank you all bye-bye

Channel: Mission Hydrogen GmbH

Views: 2,584

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Id: t3O_u7zrOyo

Length: 78min 33sec (4713 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 01 2020