How will Wang Yi's visit to Iran reshape the middle East?

[Music] on today's world insight china and iran inked a 25-year agreement during chinese foreign minister wang yi's visit to iran how will this deal reshape the middle east and a yawning divide between wealthy and poor countries over vaccination efforts with zero vaccine rollout among the poorest nations could china u.s cooperation help bridge the global covert vaccination divide be virus hunter ian lipkin with some answers this is one world that needs to work together everybody must be protected everybody must be monitored and everybody must contribute to the control of infectious diseases [Music] here is our host tian way hello and welcome to world inside i'm team way in beijing the state counselor and chinese foreign minister wang yi started his iran visit over the weekend the third stop of his sixth state middle eastern tour during his two-day visit there wang yi and his iranian counterparts exchanged views on strengthening bilateral relations china welcomes the intention expressed by the new u.s administration to return to the 2015 iran nuclear deal wong added that safeguarding the deal is safeguarding multilateralism also on saturday the two countries inked a 25-year cooperation agreement covering political and economic areas the milolista tour follows wangi's whirlwind week of diplomatic meetings with u.s senior diplomats in alaska and with his russian counterpart in south china's guilin so what peace broker role could china play in the region let's loop in our panelists what does it mean that 25-year deal with iran [Music] for chinese foreign minister's visit to iran in tehran we have mohammed morandi professor at tehran university in washington d.c ivan ilan the senior fellow and the director of the center on peace and liberty at independent institute and in xi'an china wang jin associate professor from northwest university of china gentlemen what a pleasure to see all of you i want to start by asking you professor morendi a very fruitful list of achievements yes i think it is quite significant the agreement is a roadmap where the two sides have come together and worked out how to develop their mutual relationship how to expand it and it's a long term relationship that they are looking at obviously road maps are the general framework in which things will be developed and there will be further discussions about different elements within the framework of this roadmap but the very fact that the two countries have the will yeah and the understanding that they need to develop further ties to strengthen the bond between east and west asia and to develop their own economies as a result yeah i think that's a major step forward professor miranda if i could just very briefly follow up what do you think are the circumstances that make this cooperation so possible now i think there are a number of things both countries are highly independent they make their own decisions their decisions are not made in washington or anywhere else china is a very powerful country with a very strong economy iran is a very powerful country that has major influence in west asia and iran of course has oil and gas china needs a large amount of oil and gas yes and of course when we look at the belton road initiative iran plays a major role for china and the initiative is very important for iran as well both countries want to develop an asian network in order to facilitate trade and development and to strengthen their economies professor wang jin i'm sure from xi'an which is almost the starting point from china the belgium road also at the ancient times looking at the deal right now what do you think made it possible i think uh many many factors for example from the historical factors that the friendship between china and iran could can be traced back 2000 years ago well if we look at the political way as justice professor morandi suggested that china and iran we trust each other we are good friends and we hope can further develop this type in the future and if we look at the economic factors and in recent years especially during the past decades in china and iran our economic ties enhanced and our uh corporations in for example a lot of energy not only concentrated on energy but also the finance but also the investment also developed although we have some difficulties yes that's for sure but i think the the future is of the prospect between the bilateral ties will be very very broad will be very positive it's a very practical one i have to say at this point uh but professor wong uh china probably also needs to bear in mind that there are unilateral sanctions against iran from some countries such as the united states so how would that work because the new administration coming into power promising to make a difference not yet to leave those sanctions i want to say here that first of all china and iran and also the most states in the international society we believe that the sanctions should be lifted i think we all have the belief that in the future that this difficulty can be overcome this difficulty can be bridged and on the other hand i think china and iran this year if you look at it it's a very longer term too it's about 25 years later so nobody knows what will happen tomorrow nobody knows maybe what will happen five years later maybe the geopolitics in the region will be transformed and the ties between the takra and washington can be improved so what we are doing here is look at the future we are doing here is trying to plan a very new map for the bilateral ties between china and iran the next 25 years and next one quarter of the century new map that's what mr wong are suggesting from china mr e land what does that new map mean or could mean for washington you know the united states under the trump administration i think ill-advisedly uh withdrew from the iran nuclear deal and put you know pretty significant sanctions uh against iran and i think this gives iran a way to you know have another source of exporting oil and etcetera and they're also of course gives on the other hand gives china a market and perhaps cheaper labor in some cases so i think it's beneficial for both those countries but for the united states i think uh you know if the united states continues on the policy of both of course china and iran i think that it will be it will fail because i think iran at least has a little bit more leverage but i think uh you know it's in everybody's interest china the united states and iran to to get iran and the u.s back into the nuclear deal and i think that will eventually happen iran u.s relations may improve somewhat and china and the u.s relations may improve somewhat but i think there's still going to be some antagonism to both countries on the part of the new administration maybe not as much as the old administration of trump but certainly you'll see some improvement but still some issues i see a lot of edges rather than improvements so far as we speak but who knows what's next having said that though professor morandi oil is still a big factor of iran's economy and also as we are seeing global supply chains might be in the future uh experiencing quite some dramatic changes that's what we have seen from for example from the issue of cotton professor miranda how do you see this relationship the changing possibly evolving relationship between china and iran a blockage in the suez canal which shows how easily global supply changes can be affected and one of the important things about the road and belt initiative that is being promoted by the chinese government is that it is much more reliant on uh on on roads on developing trade and networks in asia itself it is also focused on sea trade as well but it is more balanced and therefore less reliant and less trade is less easily threatened by events on the high seas whether whether it is just some simple blockage like what we just now saw or some form of hostility that could take place so i think that's one important thing in both iran being in west asia and china being in east asia and central asian countries being in between this initiative is both fruitful for the development of west china northern iran and the whole central asian region and it makes these countries less reliant on sea trade in addition to that while the u.s has imposed very strong sanctions as you alluded to earlier because of the increasing demand as we see right now iranian oil is being exported almost to full capacity whereas a year and a half ago it was it had gone down very much and again the chinese need larger sources for energy they need more diverse sources of energy because they are rapidly growing even though they are arguably the first or i mean they could be the first or the second largest economy in the world depending on how you calculate things but it's not only an issue of energy it's also the fact that iran is a huge market china is the greatest market in the world being the most populated country and iran has very powerful alliances across west asia from lebanon to syria to iraq to yemen afghanistan and therefore that's that it if you include its allies that is potentially a much larger market than iran itself and iran is a very highly educated country it doesn't take orders from washington if the united states would tell a particular country to decrease trade with china or to decrease oil sales to china some of them may be easily influenced so i and and again for iran the same is true with china china is not a country that will just you know take a phone call from some western capital and change its policy it's a strong and independent country therefore for all these different reasons this agreement is uh is it will be quite useful it's it's really sad that the united states is antagonizing iran china and all these other countries rather than taking advantage of opportunities that exist in this very volatile era that we live in it seems that the us has been taking some new initiatives regarding the middle east for example about the issue of yemen about afghanistan but this new administration could hardly move with all the priorities that he's struggling back at home but the question is how much space does it leave to china in the middle east including its relationship with iran earlier professor morandi was talking about iran building a good friendship with some of the neighboring countries and and but how mature is that if it could be a potential market for china china still plays a very active very constructive role in this region we want to be the bridge of connecting the different countries we want to be the bridge of trying to melt down this uh crisis in this region like the cases between uh saudi arabia and iran that china wants to develop directly with them and then we hope in the future there will be the very big market the big opportunities that can bring everybody together to melt down these things we believe that all the hatred all the distrust resulted from the past but if you look at the future more opportunities might emerge and all these opportunities will bring everybody together to melt down to settle this crisis is it possible professor morendi i think there there's great possibility first of all a part of a lot of the trade would be taking place through central asia and both iran and china have very good relations with their central asian neighbors as well as with russia and of course there's afghanistan so and to the west of iran there's turkey and iraq which also have very good relations with iran and china the the real issue that you are alluding to is saudi arabia and of course the belton the road in belton road initiative would be inclusive to all these countries in the region and and the iranian and chinese development does not impede chinese saudi arabian relations iran under no circumstances would demand china change its relationship with the saudis this these developments and the agreement between iran and china are the future and we have to see what happens between saudi arabia and iran in the future hopefully the war in yemen will come to an end and in future we will see growth in this region go back to a place where people can rise out of poverty okay and china and iran can benefit from this uh together mr yi land the other two gentlemen are talking about an area in which the u.s used to consider as extremely strategic important for various reasons but now there seems to be less interest for the u.s curiosity at least about that region so mr yilan how should we understand the role of china now in that region and how shall we understand the acceptance of the u.s to play a different role in the region as it used to be compared to it used to be well i think we have to distinguish between military power and economic power and certainly the us has been involved in both but you know we've been in uh two well actually if you count libya three big wars in that in the middle eastern area and i think uh people in the united states are a bit sick of that and i think uh so they're trying to de-emphasize uh the middle east and at least the pentagon is and they're trying to increase attention to uh near pure competitors or even pure competitors now with russia and china so when we see i think china actually is probably pursuing a better strategy than the us because it's more economic uh uh economically oriented and therefore uh you know they're more interested in economics in the middle east i think you're seeing that with this agreement so the united states is refocusing itself although it still can't seem to get out of places that it's been for many years militarily so i think uh you know the i'm not sure the the chinese uh strategy is completely perfect but it seems to be better than the united states and i think you know this idea of sanctions on oil has never worked didn't work in the 1973 oil embargo and it doesn't work in reverse when the us tries to do it uh and and also the united states also gets caught up in the in the israeli and gulf states versus iran uh political and military thing and i don't think china does so i think china is probably better off for that as well and concentrating on the economics the other thing is about jcpoa now that has been something long overdue in terms of seeking solutions professor morandi is it time in that regard what will be china's role and how do you think iran china with this 25-year strategic deal likely to assess jcpoa in a different light well i think both iran and china see the jcpoa very similarly and that it is a deal which must be applied in full and that all sides must fully implement their obligations and the united states never did that under obama they only partially fulfilled their obligations whereas the iranians fulfilled all of theirs and of course we know what happened under trump so what the iranians are saying now is that look we want the deal to be implemented in full it benefits everyone the questions whether legitimate or illegitimate about iran's peaceful nuclear program can be dealt with easily this way and of course the pressure that the americans are putting on ordinary iranians will be swept aside if the deal is implemented but the problem is that since the united states does not have a history of implementation the ira and the americans have damaged the iranian economy immensely by tearing the deal the iranians are saying look you cannot ask us to begin implementation whereas you're the side that exited the deal where and we stayed in even after you left so you have to show that you're serious about implementation right and that you and the united states can do this the iranians can flip a switch and easily turn off parts of its nuclear program but the americans have to show that they are going to allow for example the banking sector to function and that is a process so the iranians are saying first show that you're honest and then we'll do what we we need to do right professor wong from china's perspective with this strategic 25-year deal with iran how is the country looking at jcpoa and every step of the way to implement the earlier plan in a different light i think the jcpoa is vary from china's perspective it's the very achievement of the the efforts from international societies uh is their achievement that should be respected should that should be maintained but right now the statement is that the both iran and the united states they believe that each other the other side should move first and they believe that all the things that today should be blamed uh uh blamed by the other side so that is so that is here the still made come from i think china's can do something that maybe can be the bridge for the connection together with the other partners of the jcpoa and also the china can show its confidence just to add this uh the 25 year deal to show that china is still very confident about the gcpa's maintenance and about the future uh prospect of the the events tied with this world under the now the circumstances especially the sanctions from the united states is very very difficult or even impossible for china to to to implement the very very realistic very very in-depth cooperation with iran directly given the sanctions especially over the financial sectors and energy sectors very hard so that's why we are looking at future rather than now it's a road map we talk we're talking about 25 years later not just nowadays the u.s does play a huge role in whether jcpoa can be implemented or not in the first press presser given by the president we didn't hear much about that at all earlier with secretary blinken we didn't hear much either about how jcpoa will be implemented professor morendi said the u.s is suspecting iran to take all the first steps but iran has already had taken first steps but didn't get any good response from the us so the box seemed to be kicked into the court of washington is it going to have a good player on the on the ground well i think that the biden administration does have the intention of getting back into it and you know going forward with some other agreement in the future um the problem of course is both sides are uh want the other side to go first and i iran does have some some um you know valid complaints against the united states but i think pragmatically uh both countries are probably going to have to take uh you know baby steps along the way to get to get because neither side trusts each other so in a practical sense whose fault it is is probably not going to make much difference because i think what they're going to do is eventually i think they probably will get to a deal but i think they're going to you know posture both sides and they're also going to have to take confidence building steps along the way uh because there's been so much bad blood between the two professor morendi iran experienced something that nobody else has ever experienced before it was once very much connected with the rest of the world also with the western world but as a result of historical reasons it became what it is today now we also see some cold war mentality zero-sum game mentality in the west these days about ideology uh using human rights as an issue to divide the world professor morandi when you look at what is going on right now to you as a uranian expert what are some of the takeaways you have from history i'm personally and intellectually extremely interested in this i think the biggest problem that exists between iran and the united states is that the united states never respected iran as a sovereign and independent country and before the revolution iran was subservient to the united states and that was a humiliation just like it is for many other countries in our region in other parts of the world today and the revolution itself was an expression of that anger and an intention to become independent the problem is that after the revolution the united states refused to accept that this new state of affairs if the americans had accepted that we wouldn't be having this conversation today the united states and iran would continue to have relations though it would no longer be a relationship of the uh a subservient country or a client regime to the united states it would be between two partners that treat each other equally and i think that's one of the reasons why the iranians and the chinese were able to come to this agreement because this agreement is not about one side playing a more important role or a decision-making role and the other side basically following the orders no it's two independent countries two countries that respect each other's sovereignty and as a result they're able to look far into the future for their relationship so if the united states continues down this road and it's now not only doing this to iran it's beginning to show the same hostility towards china towards russia it's constantly sanctioning different countries even the indians are being threatened for doing military trade with the russians if the united states continues to go down this road ultimately it's going to be harming itself more than everyone else and it's going to bring other countries together as a result very interesting situation we're facing today we'll see how things evolve but this is very exciting time but we hope the politicians are making decisions with responsibilities in their mind thank you so much the three of you for joining us mohammad morandi from iran ivan iland from the u.s and wang jin from china thank you so much

Channel: CGTN

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Keywords: CGTN, News, world insight, Iran, Wang yi, middle East, China, geopolitics

Id: Z8_zA7ionx0

Length: 26min 2sec (1562 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 30 2021