- Okay, let's be real. I was always going to be gay. But watching Elizabeth Swann outsmart a feared pirate captain with
an utterly condescending look on her face didn't exactly hurt. Films, TV, music, books, games
and pop culture in general, have always been a cornerstone of LGBTQ+ community and identity. And it's these formative
experiences of queerness I'm gonna be exploring in
my new interview series. I'm gonna be talking to
a different queer person each episode about the media that has shaped them and their identity. Whether it's a serious discussion about the impact of seeing
a gay kiss on screen for the first time or a
tongue in cheek thirsting over a handsome cartoon
animal from our childhood, or even a more personal
memory about the song that was playing in the
car when they came out to their dad for the first time. I'm gonna hear about it all. If you know any LGBTQ+ creators
that you would love to see in this series then please
let me know in the comments. Without further ado, we
have our first episode so I'm gonna put on the
headphones because I am about to talk to the amazing
content creator and activist, my friend, Annie Alani. Annie, hello?
- Hi! - For people who aren't
familiar with who you are and what you do, could you
just give a little introduction about kind of you and
also the way you identify that might be relevant to what
we're gonna talk about today? - Yeah, okay, I'm Annie
Sigara or Annie Alani as my channel is called, and
my pronouns are she or they, or any and all pronouns,
I'll really respond to. I identify as queer and gender fluid as well as disabled with Ehlers
Danlos Syndrome and Latinx. - When I came up with the idea for this I had like a one page little
pitch that I was gonna send to people who I wanted to
be on and be interviewed. And then with you ,I forgot
and so I just sent you like, "Hey, do you want to do a thing?" And you're like, "Yeah, let's do a thing." And then forgot to send
you the actual detailed like you know, instructions of what to do but you've picked up pretty quickly and sent over I think five
different characters to me which all, I'm really excited
to talk about all of them. I think a lot of them are quite iconic queer type characters. So without further ado
I guess, who is your, who's the first kind
of piece of pop culture that you wanna talk about? - When you asked me this, I wasn't sure what exactly counted as
iconic 'cause I never really felt like, iconic to me,
meant that like everybody had a crush on them, but I don't know. I don't know if people have
the same crushes that I did. But my first one was
definitely the Evil Queen from "Snow White".
- Amazing. - Mostly just I have memories
of being a kid and being, I don't know if titillated
is the right word, but that seems to be it. Because of her frickin', her cape twirl when she like-- - Oh, yeah. - When she like, went down the staircase. I was like, oh, I don't
know my heart stopped and I was like, I did,
that was my first confusion of I don't know if I wanna
be her or be with her. - I was gonna say that's
always an interesting one with these characters
is, is it a character that you're drawn to because
you are attracted to them? And it's that first element
of, kind of at the time often when you're a kid, like
this sort of innocent crush element or like the hot
patters or something like that, or is it like, oh, I
wanna be this bitch like, this is, like this aesthetic,
this look, this vibe is what I wanna be or
like a mix of the both like sometimes it's hard to tell. - I mean, it's lasted, I still
kind of have a crush on her to this day and now my feelings
are a little more affirmed. Now I'm like, yeah, I
wish she would taught me is the situation that I feel. (Annie laughing) - Well, what's happening
is, like we're friends. We've been on trips to Disney
World a few times already, with each other, the most
recent one being cancelled due to current
circumstances unfortunately. I can only see you through
a screen at the moment but I remember you, Disney
bounding as the Evil Queen on that trip in, ah, just such an outfit like I'm gonna find a picture
and like put it somewhere. For those who don't know Disney bounding is because in the parks as
an adult you can't actually dress as characters in
case like kids mistake you for the characters but you can
kind of get give little hints and nods to characters with like accessories or your colour palette. And your evil queen Disney bound
was iconic, it was amazing. - [Annie] Thanks, oh my gosh! - I've talked about it
on my channel before and I'm sure like we've probably
discussed it at some point, the idea of like, villains
and queerness of like, you know, Disney having a lot
of quite queer coded villains, which Evil Queen isn't so
much of an obvious example, although it's still
maybe a little bit there. What do you think about that, like, I know a lot of queer
people who actually feel quite an affinity with
villainy in terms of how it's presented 'cause it's
often in direct contrast to like heteronormativity and
like the happily ever after of a man and a woman
who are often very white like coming together and
going off into the sunset. Do you think that the
idea of like villainy has been any part of that
looking into that particular I guess, influence on your identity or the way you've thought
about your identities? - That's how a lot of queer
kids, they do feel represented by the villains in that
way because a lot of like the male villains are a
little softer and sassier. I think for women and AFABS like or
anyone that identifies with like femininity like the women villains, villaineses, of Disney, were also like, they're all very, like
strong and powerful. So those are both things that we coveted and that we were attracted to. - Yeah.
- You know, like, if you ask me,
like the kind of people that I'm typically drawn to,
it is that as people that I do see as like confident and
strong and, and powerful. So like people, like the
big two that I'm thinking of right now are definitely
the evil queen and Ursula. - Yap.
- Who are, you know, just these like
confidence strong women and I don't know, we definitely were drawn to that not necessarily even
romantically, sexually attracted to that but drawn to it
as something that we both yes, wanted to be and wanted to be with. - And I think that
you're, I mean, Ursula's is such a classic
example because literally based on a drag queen,
right, based on Divine. So it's so obviously kind of drawing in and circling around to queer culture in a really explicit way,
as well as just like a way in which we kind of have
interpreted over the years. So Evil Queen, number one. Who is your second on your list of five? - Oh my god. It was Robin Hood. Robin Hood is such a common
one, when people ask about like childhood crushes, like from
all sexual orientations, it doesn't matter who or
who you're attracted to, what gender you're attracted
to, Robin Hood is on the list. And I think,
- Oh, God. - I think that it has to do with like, a couple of different things. I've tried to figure it
out for the longest time. I think part of it is his kind
of like androgynous nature, like the way the way he's drawn. He's also kind of like
long and lanky, physically. - Yeah. - So like, he has like a body
like Shane from The "L Word". You know what I mean? Like, just kind of like. (Rowan laughing) And he does, I don't
know, he did something that I've always found,
like, aesthetically pleasing on people, which is like
when he would like roll up his sleeves to get something done. Ooh!
- Yap. - Oh! (Rowan laughing) - Can I just as well, you
just wrote down on the list you sent to me Robin Hood. I just assumed correctly,
it was the cartoon fox, Robin Hood and not any
of the other versions of Robin Hood of which
there have been plenty. I just automatically was
like, oh, the animal one, the cat, the cartoon animal. But you're absolutely right. I think there is something
there, definitely. - He had sparkly kind eyes, like. - He did, that's also true. Robbing from the rich, giving to the poor. - Yes, he was like a, he
had that great combination of he was a good guy and a
bad guy at the same time. - The stories and the characters
that are in those films at such a formative in
young age can really inform the way that you think about
what is like a good person or a romantic person or
an attractive kind of personality traits that you
would have in a partner. Whether that is like
confidence, or androgyny or things like that, that you
can kind of pick those up. Even if you're younger and
you're not entirely sure why you're picking up on these
vibes but you're like, oh, yes, this is, maybe
something that's there. - That's basically what I'm
finding out in this like, format of figuring out what my childhood crushes were on fictional characters,
is that as an adult now I'm like, oh, it's these elements that I was like looking
at in these characters. 'Cause like, to clarify, I don't have crushes on animals or foxes. (both laughing) - It's the tiny little paws. Yeah, no, it's but like,
that's something I think is across all, like you've said
like across all sexualities. It just seems like there are
these particular characters that just crop up. How about number three? What's the third, third one on the list. - KD at the bassist from "School of Rock"? - Okay, tell me about
that, we've got our first non-cartoon based character. - I think for the rest of
my list is not cartoons. They, so Katie the bassist, "School
of Rock" first of all, I watched that thing so many times. How old must I have been? Between, like 10 to 12. And, ugh! I don't know, I'm sad to say that like, some of these are just gonna
be purely aesthetic crushes. She was in a band. She had gorgeous dark hair and dark eyes. Like, I was just like, wow, this was like probably the first time I was, wow, this is an age
appropriate crush for me, maybe we can be in love and
be together in the future. - Oh, that's so sweet. Do you, I mean, do you remember
thinking of it consciously as a crush where you were
like, oh, what if we were in a relationship kind of crush. Like oh, I can imagine us holding hands. Or was that something that
you've looked at afterwards and been like, oh, that was
probably what I was thinking or how I might have thought
about it at the time. Like were you really
conscious at that age of like, oh, yes, this is someone I could
date that would be so cute. - Oh no, I wish, I was, (both laughing) I was definitely in this stage of like, I just wanna be really like
great friends with her. Yeah, ages 10 to 12, I
was like, I don't know if I wanna be her or just
like be her best friend. I just want like proximity,
I don't know what I want. And it wasn't until like
years later, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, definitely definitely wanted to have like a 10 year old to 12 year old girlfriend situation. - Aww. - Yeah, I mean, did you know,
the actress is queer now? But that's-- - No. It's all happening, Matilda, as well. It's all of these like, key characters from when we were younger
that we kind of wish we could hold hands where
they're all turning out to be queer, which I
fully am in support of. - Though I was like, wow,
there's actually a chance. Should be interesting what happens now. - I'll send this to her. Do you feel like you,
you kind of talked before about the idea of it
like the Evil Queen was, is still a thing that
you can think about now, do you think that that
same kind of character if you were to have a
character in another show about someone in their
20's who was in a band? Is that still something you vibe with? Or do you think that
you've kind of had these different phases or
periods of kind of crushing on different types of personality? - Absolutely a crush on
people who are in a band. (both laughing) - Going strong.
- Abso-fricking-lutely. I think she was like, I don't know, she was the one like big musician. There was a lot of vocalists
in the "School of Rock" band. And it's so funny for me like vocalists, no offence to them are a little boring because I was a vocalist. - I was gonna say, don't you sing? - Right, I'm like, I
already know how it's done. I can do it myself. I think I always kind of,
I am attracted to things that are weird balance, yet equal and by equal,
I mean, in this scenario when it comes to music, I'm like okay, the equality part is we're
both in the music field. But then I want balance,
like if I'm a vocalist then you do something different. So that way it kind of
like meshes together. - Just jam together. - So that is--
- With beautiful music together.
- Yeah. So that's the element I
was looking at was like, oh, that's hot, because I'm not familiar with that instrument. So. - We're getting deep into your psyche now. - I love it, I love it so much. - How about number four then, this is another another real
life person on the list? - Yes, it's a big one. It's Linda Cardellini from "Scooby Doo" playing Velma. - Tell me, tell me the
story, what's happening here? - I don't know. (both laughing) I don't know, I don't know. Again. I don't, I, you gotta put me on a couch,
Dr. Rowan, I don't know. I don't know what it is, I mean, obviously she's freaking cute. Obviously, she's super smart. I don't know, it's like a heads,
it's like the full package. She's aesthetically gorgeous, she's also really, the smart, nerdy character. And I don't know, like I
don't know who's gonna argue with me that those things are
not attractive in a character. - What's really interesting
is at various points that character has been, this
I feel like it's one of those sort of urban myth, internet
rumours about how far her and Daphne are meant to
be together in this series and unlike original scripts
that then got edited and I feel like there's
a lot of sort of internet urban legends around that
in the queer community around the idea that her and
Daphne were meant to be like, roommates and all that kind of stuff. And I see that, I feel like her and Daphne would make a very cute couple. - Yes, yes, I think that'd be really cute. Like anything sapphic I thought that on top of everything else,
I can't express what it was from the movie, but she did
have some kind of sapphic vibe about her, to my interpretation. I don't know if that's wishful thinking, or if it's an entire, apparently it's an entire community
of people who are like, yeah, Velma definitely has sapphic vibes. - When you were that age, I
kind of, I have no concept of when that "Scooby Doo" movie came out. I don't know why I would. But was that again
something that you weren't quite conscious of like,
why you were drawn to her? At that point were you
like, oh, this is a crush. This is how I am feeling. - No, let me actually double check the day 'cause I think I was around
like 12 when that happened too. No, actually, I spent
a long time not knowing that I was experiencing crushes on women for the longest time. Why can't I get, yeah 2002. Yeah, I was I was 12 years old then. I was just experiencing crushes
and now that I'm an adult, I can acknowledge and be like,
yeah, that's what that was. But I think--
- Yeah. - Even throughout high school, the idea of being attracted to women
was so kind of impossible because of my surroundings
and my environment growing up, that I preferred to explore, swim around with the
idea of possibly being asexual than being attracted to women. I was like, well--
- Yeah. - 'Cause I understood enough
that I wasn't experiencing attraction to men and I would like, I would do the thing, I
learned now as an adult that it's not so uncommon,
to kind of like fixate and crush on one guy that you
know is not interested in you so that you can say,
"The reason I'm single "is because that person doesn't like me "and I'm in love with them." And then that's it. So, I would do that
like every year be like, this is the person and
if they don't want me, I'm by myself, that's it. And that was the way to
keep myself safe with like, to keep myself from
suspicion of being queer. And then but inside internally,
my mind was thinking maybe I'm asexual because
I'm not attracted to men. And it wasn't until
years later I was like, oh, yeah, that's what was
happening the whole time. - That's that other option,
yeah, that checks out. How about the last of your five. Bring us home with the final choice. - Christina Ricci in "Now And Then". "Cause she was the, the tomboy and tomboys
are always reading kind of reading a little queer and I definitely had a very firm like feet planted in the
ground like, tomboy period as a kid, where I don't
know, it was very... I don't know, I never
know if that tomboy period was internalised misogyny or
just trying to like figure myself out because a lot
of it, when I hear myself like in my memories, just sounds
like internalised misogyny. I remember like screaming, "I
hate pink and I hate dresses." And blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff it's difficult to tell
if I changed over time or if that was truthful. It didn't feel like a lie when I said it. So it's possible that
you know, I just like, changed. But that was the Christina
Ricci character for me like it 'cause she was very similar. She was very much like--
- Yeah. - Anti-femininity, not
just not participating it, but like very almost disgusted by it with the implication that
she would have to perform it for any reason. - It's interesting in terms
of the previous choices, especially the ones that you're like, do I wanna be them? Do I wanna, do I want them? Have you felt like any of them have fed into the gender aspect
of your identity at all? Or is they're kind of they're
of separate kind of elements? - That would be the closest,
would be Christina Ricci's character in "Now And Then". It's really hard to feel
represented in that way. - But the thing is formative, I think, especially for queer people
doesn't have to mean childhood. It can mean teenage hood,
it can mean later than that, because I think people, you know, no matter where they come
out are having to unlearn, cisnormativity and heteronormativity and then relearn who they are
before they can then progress into having the sort of relationships that a lot of cis and heterosexual people kind of just fall into 'cause it's, they're not having to do
the extra work in between. So, absolutely, I think you
can have the same kind of like awakening crushes or kind
of thoughts when you're in your late teens that some
straight people might be having when they're kind of first
starting to go through puberty. I think that makes total sense. - Yeah, I was like, singing hallelujah in my brain the entire time you were talking. (both laughing) Now that I think about it,
and I've talked about it on social media a couple
times, this period of lockdown and quarantine, was a movie called "Just One Of The Guys" from the 80s. She was a high school
student who was a writer and felt that because
of sexism she didn't get the job that she wanted as as a writer or some kind of award or something. So she decided to go to a
different high school as a boy to to attempt turning in
the same essay as a boy and comedicly enough,
she did it right away and it still wasn't good enough. So then, you know, it
turns into a story about this experience of gender swapping herself and what she learns from the situation. But my experience as a
viewer, as a queer viewer, and as a gender fluid viewer, I was like, obsessed and thrilled at what she had done in regards to her represent, not her representation, her presentation. And as a teenager, I was like, this is what I wanna be when I grow up. (Annie laughing) I wanna be able,
- Yeah. - to like present really feminine one day and then present more
masculine another day. And I also like envied,
that was the first time I also acknowledged this like white slender androgynous idea of gender fluidity too. Because as a, like more, like a person with like softer features and like
curvier, and a curvier body and things like that, it's
actually not even easy to shop for the kind of
clothes that I would want to be more neutral or to get more like masculine
clothing or anything like that. I kind of like I'm forced into
a lot of feminine fashion, just because of like the
body type that I have. So that movie like really exploded my brain, mostly that character and again that character. Shoot, I don't even remember
her name because it's, it's bad 'cause her name was
not even the point for me. Her name, for me, I was just like this is the mould for like
what I wanna be when I grow up and at the same time,
yes, it's like the same, same old question, I
don't know how many times we're gonna say it, be her or be with her. We'll never know now. - Now that we've kind of done
our, you've taken me through the full spectrum of all
of these kind of formative queer experiences, I'm gonna
check exactly what I called it. You need to pick one quote or moment or scene or gesture or
something to put into the, what did I call it? Rowan Ellis queer agenda archive. So that could be anything
from the sleeve roll of Robin Hood, to the swish
of the Evil Queen's cape, just something from
one of these characters that you want to be
locked into the archive of the queer agenda for all time. - I think for me it's gonna
have to be the Evil Queen's cape twirl down the staircase. - Beautiful, I'm gonna
find some footage of that and put that here so
everyone is fully aware of what we're talking about
when we mention this cape twirl. Amazing, thank you so much for watching. And Annie, thank you
so much for being here. Would you like to tell everyone
where they can find you on the internet if they are so inclined? - Yes, I am all over the
internet as Annie Alani. So that's Instagram,
Twitter and TikTok now and also here on YouTube. - Thank you again so much for watching. If you'd like to help support
me make videos like this, then I'm gonna leave a
link to my Patreon below along with all my social media. And of course, in the
comments, let me know if there's anyone that you
wanna see on this series. Or if you have some moments of pop culture that have been formative in your life, I would love to hear about them. Till I see you next time, bye.
