>> Good afternoon, and it's
absolutely lovely to be here. I am going to be talking
about how to stay healthy. And I've actually been
on a bit of a tour, talking about the Blood Sugar
Diet, which I'll also mention. Now curiously I was in
Brisbane a couple days ago and I was flying back and
this is what we're offered for breakfast. And if you look at that,
what's really curious about it is it's sort of a
healthy breakfast allegedly. You look at the yogurt, and
I had a look at the back. That is low-fat. It is low-gluten and of
course it is high sugar. There is about the equivalent of
four teaspoons of sugar in it. Cranberries, you're
thinking those are healthy. Actually they've covered
them in sugar as well. And there's the equivalent of
six teaspoons of sugar on that. The granola, two teaspoons of
sugar, and the orange juice around nine teaspoons of sugar. That's just normal orange juice. It's natural sugar,
but it's still sugar. So that little box of goodies
from Qantas is 20 teaspoons of sugar which is around
half a kilo of sugar a week, or 26 kilos of sugar a year
should you fancy travelling on Qantas every morning
of the week. [ Laughter ] So I'll come back
to that in a moment. But let's move on. I trained at Royal Free
Hospital in London with Claire. And on the first day
in fact there were 100 of us a bit like this. The dean said that statistically
four of us would marry, and Claire was in
that room that day. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] The other thing the dean said is over the next five years we
would learn a huge amount and that within five years
most of it would be wrong. So it would be a good
idea to keep up to date. And what I fear is a lot of doctors have not
kept up to date. Okay, so I joined the
BBC and I was a director for many years behind
the camera. And I directed a
number of lovely people. John Cleese, I did a series
with him called The Human Face. Alice Roberts, are you
familiar with Alice? I've done quite a
few series with her. David Attenborough,
did a series with him. Do you know the one animal David
Attenborough is terrified of? Rats. Can't bear them. And talking of Rats, I
worked with him as well. [ Laughter ] I have to say Jeremy is exactly
what he's like on the screen. So I've done a lot of
things behind the camera and then more recently
in front of the camera. Did you ever see this
lovely one, Infested? This was when I agreed to
swallow tapeworm cysts. This is me in Kenya. We had just found the dead
cow, which was infected with tapeworm, beef
tapeworm in its tongue. We chopped off the tongue,
cut out three cysts and I'm about to swallow them. And the agreement with Claire, she kind of vets these things
I do, was we would get rid of it before it hit 10 weeks. Because at that point it
starts to she segments and so you run the risk it
crawls out of your bottom and you might share
a bed with one. So I took three but I had
no idea whether I would have triplets, twins, singles. And it turned out
to be triplets. Hooray. That's a pill camera
shot done at eight weeks. So yes, I've done some fairly
hardcore things in my time. But the thing I'm best
known for is the fast diet, otherwise known as the 5-2 Diet. And if you're wondering if
it works, that was me before. That's me now. [ Laughter ] So clearly all the
proof you need. Around the time that I wrote
the 5-2 Diet, which was actually in 2012, I came across this
paper in the New England Journal of Medicine which
is mispronunciations and facts about obesity. And it's written by the US's
foremost obesity specialist, so I thought I'd run
through a few missed facts and let's have a bit of a game. Okay, best to lose
weight gradually. Is that a myth, a
fact or a presumption? Let's go for myth. Let's go for fact. And let's go for presumption. Okay, that is a myth. It is a very well
established myth, but it turns out that pretty well every
study they've ever looked at, rapid and greater initial
weight loss is associated with lower weight loss
at the end of fallout. Which is surprising, isn't it? Big study out of the University
of Melbourne about 18 months ago where they took 200
overweight women and randomly allocated them
either to rapid weight loss -- they had to lose 12.5% of
their total body weight in around 12 weeks -- or they
had 36 weeks to do it at a rate of about half a kilo a week. And what they discovered
is the dropout rate in the slow weight loss
group was very high. 50% of them dropped out
before they hit their target. Whereas 85% of those in
the rapid weight loss. And they followed them for
two years and when it came to putting on weight, it
was actually the slow group who put on the most weight. Which is surprising. But it's also about what you
do when you shed the weight. In a sense it kind
of makes sense because you're thinking
you're much more motivated if you lose it fast. But the critical thing
is how do you lose it and what do you do
when you've lost it? And I'll come back
to that later. So what do we think about
this one: eating breakfast? Breakfast is the most important
meal of the day, surely true. True or false? We got any true? False? It is false. [ Laughter ] American Journal of Clinical
Nutrition, 309 participants. What they did is
they got skippers and regular breakfast
eaters and they asked them to swap habits for four months. And low and behold the people
who skipped it and began eating, they lost .75 kilos,
pretty good. Except the other way
around was exactly the same. It turns out the eat breakfast and breakfast is the
most important meal of the day is mainly a slogan
of the cereal companies. [ Laughter ] Okay, exercise is
important for weight loss. What are we getting? True? >> True. >> False? >> False. >> Well you should
be up with me. It's another false one. And the problem is that
if you're a 65-kilo woman, you're going to have to walk 40
minutes to burn off a banana, 60 minutes for a fruit juice,
80 minutes for a glass of wine, two hours for a bar
of chocolate, and a muffin, three hours. So put that muffin down. [ Laughter ] And if you want to lose half
a kilo of fat, you're going to have to run 44 miles. So you can do it, or you can
just put the muffin down. And that is not actually
the worst of it. The problem is as well because
what people do is what's called compensatory eating, yeah,
and compensating relaxing. Basically you sit on
your ass afterwards. [ Laughter ] So we all know that in
order to be healthy you need to eat a healthy diet, but
what is a healthy diet? Okay, so sugar is
the obvious villain. This is the UK. Sugar consumption since 1700. Anybody got any idea
what happened in 1850? I would be very impressed
if you knew. This is when Gladstone
removed the tax on sugar. And it kind of makes the case
for a tax on sugar, doesn't it? And the other two dips
basically are the first and the second World War. Now this is correlated
against diabetes, but it could've been
against obesity. You get exactly the
same pattern. And what you see there is rates
of type II diabetes up from about 1% in the UK when I was
born and now running at 8-9%. Gone up nearly tenfold. Same is true in Australia, worse
in Vietnam, worse in China, worse in almost any
country you can imagine. Right, now the average
Australian kid consumes their own weight in sugar every
year, over 30 kilos. And these are the villains. So I shouldn't have gone
through that one so fast. Dwell on this one. This is obviously Coca-Cola,
fizzy drinks and all of that. They are the number one villain,
and then we have Corn Flakes, the number two villain. And does anyone know this guy? This is Dr. Kellogg. Dr. Kellogg, 1900's. And Dr. Kellogg basically
invents corn flakes for this reason:
there is a disease that is sweeping America
affecting young boys and girls. It leads to cancer of the womb,
urinary disease, impotence, epilepsy, insanity and death. The victim literally
dies by his own hands. Do you know what
he's talking about? Masturbation, yes. That was it. The reason Dr. Kellogg
invents corn flakes is because he's worried
about masturbation. And he thinks quite rightly
that Corn Flakes are going to basically undermine
the health of the youth. At this time when there
was a lot of conversation about you know, child
abuse, Dr. Kellogg was very, very fond of advocating
circumcision for boys and girls to stop them doing it. He actually broke
with this bother because his brother basically
said, "Look, this stuff tastes like absolute rubbish. It tastes like cured cardboard. It tastes worse than cardboard. We've got to pump
it full of sugar." And Dr. Kellogg,
bless him, said no. So his brother went off and
founded the Kellogg's empire and as you're well aware, a lot of cereals now
have 30, 40, 50% sugar. And they have continued the very
fine tradition of Dr. Kellogg. Dr. Kellogg was also fond of
yogurt, now for breakfast. Now I'm a fan of yogurt,
particularly full-fat yogurt for breakfast, but not in the way Dr. Kellogg
administered it: rectally. He believed in yogurt enemas. A couple of pints of
yogurt first thing in the morning, get you going. [ Laughter ] He was kind of ahead of
his time in the sense that he recognised the
microbiome gut bacteria was a good thing. But not by that delivery system. [ Laughter ] Here's another villain for you
if you like: Dr. Ansell Keys. Are you familiar with him? Dr. Ansell Keys is
a physiologist, beginning in the 1950's and culminating really
in the 1980's. He convinced the American
government and then the world that basically fat
was the villain. Fat is what makes us fat. Fat is what clogs
up your arteries and gives you heart disease. Unfortunately what then happened
obviously is that people kind of believed that if you -- the
manufacturers kind of went crazy for low-fat products and
they stuffed them full of sugar instead. So if you took a store-bought
muffin, low-fat version, it actually had 10%
more calories than the normal version. But because it says low-fat, people thought it
wouldn't make them fat. So what happened in 1980,
which is when I and Claire went to medical school, is
the world was swamped by the low-fat message. And unfortunately, it not only
kind of undermined the health if you like of the US, but
much of the rest of the world. So Coca-Cola obviously
are spreading the message as we go now. They've kind of done
the developed world. They're not moving on I think
to Africa and things like that. The sugar industry is very
much like the tobacco industry. They know they've
lost the fight, but they're going to
go on fighting it. So what happened is fat,
fat was bad for you. Fat was going to kill you. But was that really true? Well there have been a
number of really big studies. This one here, for example. The Women's Health Initiative
Dieting Modification Trial, part of a bigger trial
which cost $600 million. Over half a billion US dollars. One of the biggest trials ever
done, and really important. And it started in 1992. 49,000 women who were
randomly allocated to low-fat or to continue as normal. And they were followed
for eight years. So this was a big
trial, randomised, all gold standard things. Very good trial. In the group who
were going low-fat, their fat consumption
fell from 39-29%. It went down by a quarter. These are really big numbers,
very, very impressive. And at the end of eight years
weight difference was .4 of a kilo between the two years. Eight years of being on a
low-fat diet, that's the result. And the important measures
were things like heart disease, breast cancer, stroke,
colorectal cancer. Made no difference at all. None. And they've done
other big studies. No low-fat diet I'm aware
of that has been part of a randomised controlled trial
has ever made a significant difference to any of the things
they promised they would. Let me tell you about this one. Has anyone heard of
the PREDIMED study? This one in many ways is an
even more important study done in Spain. Just over 7,000 Spaniards
randomly allocated to a low-fat or Mediterranean diet. And both groups were encouraged
to eat more fruit and veg and cut down on sugary snacks. Kind of standard advice. And the low-fat group were
encouraged to eat plenty of bread, pasta, potatoes,
keep oil to a minimum, eat low-fat dairy and that
sounds pretty standard, doesn't it? The Mediterranean diet basically
encouraged to eat plenty of eggs, nuts, oily fish,
add lots of olive oil. They were not calorie
controlled in any way. You know, cook with it, glug
with it, stick it on your salad, do whatever you want with it. They were also encouraged to eat
dark chocolate in the evening, not huge amounts, but bits of
it, and have a glass of wine with their evening meal. So that's kind of what the
Mediterranean diet looks like. It looks nice, doesn't it? Thinking I could handle that. And so what were the
results of PREDIMED? Well, what they found is you
were 30% less likely to die from a heart attack or stroke,
if you were on the Mediterranean than on the low-fat diet. Okay, so your risk of
becoming diabetic was 50% less if you were on the
Mediterranean diet. If you were on the Mediterranean
diet and you were supplementing with extra virgin olive oil,
you were nearly 70% less likely to develop breast cancer. Biggest result I've
ever seen anywhere ever. A low-fat diet, zero
effect on breast cancer, and what you can see here
is that there's something about the olive oil, and I think
it's something called oleic acid -- they're not quite sure. They're doing follow-up studies. This was a paper published
about two months ago. Because what's happening
is the trial that began in '92 is still running. They're just still getting
new information out of it. And they also did lots of brain
tests on them, memory tests. And they found if you were
on the Mediterranean diet, you were much less likely
to develop dementia, and also you're much less
likely to have memory problems. And all this stuff and also how to Mediterraneanize your
diet is in my new book. I might as well plug it here. [ Laughter ] Which is The Blood Sugar Diet. Because I think Mediterranean
diet is absolutely the heart of everything I'm
talking about now. Everybody agrees. Dieticians agree. Pretty much everyone agrees. They may not wholly agree about
what the Mediterranean diet is, and I'll go into that, but you
can quite simply make your diet far more Mediterranean
if you like. But go ahead and
Google PREDIMED, and what is fantastic is they
give you exactly what happened. And it has lots of
just other things. Like they encouraged them that
every meal should be eaten in a chair behind a table. Never eat a meal standing up. Never eat a meal you
can hold in one hand. There are certain rules. Okay, so the MHS,
God bless them, they basically have a
section you go to and it says, "What is the Mediterranean
diet?" And they describe this. This apparently is a
Mediterranean diet. If you look at it
really carefully, it's actually indistinguishable
from a low-fat diet. In fact, it is a low-fat diet. There is nothing in there
about any of the constituents of the PREDIMED study. They say the PREDIMED
study is brilliant. They describe the
details in great detail and then they produce this thing which is called the Eat
Well plate, which we talk of as the Eat Very Badly plate. And there is a soft
of dissonance. There is a complete disconnect
between what the evidence shows and what government bodies show. And if you go and look at the
Australian version of this, it's exactly the same. Nothing has changed. It's like 20 years of
research have come and gone, the PREDIMED study
has come and gone, the Women's Health Initiative, I could cite another
dozen studies, and it's like nothing
has changed. I find that really, really odd. And if you go to the
diabetes website, you get the same sort of thing. Low-fat diet. And yet when you talk
to them, everybody goes, "Mediterranean diet,
yeah it's the way to go. We all recognise that. Blah, blah, blah." But that's not what they
say, and I find it odd. Anyway, I got interested in
diabetes and type II diabetes because in 2012 I discovered
I was a type II diabetic. And I'd been on a low-fat
diet, all sorts of things. None of them ever worked. My dad died of type II
diabetes related illnesses. So I went to see my
GP and she said go on a low-fat diet
and start medication. I said, "No thank you." And I got hold of a whole
bunch of our researchers and they went off and they found
out about intermittent fasting. Has anyone seen this one,
Eat Fast, Live Longer? So this was kind of
inspired as well. That's my gut. Well, that's a scan. That white stuff is fat, because
I was what's called TOFI, thin on the outside, fat inside. And it's really the fat
that's kind of lining my live and my pancreas that's
causing the problems. And here's Dr. Chris Debarreti
who's one of my experts. She does research into what's
called alternate day fasting, where basically you cut your
calories every other day by about a quarter. So that's around 500 or 600
calories every other day. I tried it and I
found it quite tricky, so I went for two days a
week, Mondays and Thursdays. And this is my thing: a 5-2 fast
diet, 600 calories twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays. At least in part because the
prophet Mohammed recommended Mondays and Thursdays and I
thought, "I'll get Muslims to buy my book if nothing else." [ Laughter ] I have to say all the
great religions have advocated fasting. So that was me beforehand. I was 85 kilos, not
hugely overweight. Body fat 28% and my blood
glucoses 7.3 which puts me in the diabetic range. And IGF-1 is a measure of
cancer risk, right at the top. And that's me after
about eight or ten weeks. I've lost 9 kilos, body fat down
21%, waist down to 32 inches, and best of all, fasting glucose
down to 5.4 which is normal, which is where I've stayed. And my cancer risk has
approximately halved. So that was four years ago. I'm still the same way and
my blood glucose the same. So there we go, grateful
patient. Grateful patient. I like to use that photo. I have a website which is
called TheBloodSugarDiet.com and it's a great
sort of community. People send me stuff, I
send them stuff, recipes. Lots of Australians on it. Do come and join in. Right, this was another study. 115 women randomly
allocated to either in this case a 1,500-calorie
Mediterranean diet or the 5-2 method. So in a way this
is Mediterranean against Mediterranean and what
they found after four months, you were twice as
likely to be on the 5-2, twice as much fat loss, insulin
resistance significantly better. And inflammatory
factors also better. And this is important. The last two are important because the woman running the
study, Dr. Michelle Harvey, her interest is breast
cancer risk. And insulin and inflammation
are both significant drivers of breast cancer risk. So I'll try to drink some water. So this is Dr. Roy Taylor
and he's kind of if you like the hero of
my current book. Because one, I'm kind of a
bit obsessed at the moment, as I said, with type II diabetes
and also insulin resistance and high blood sugar levels. Because around, depending
on which statistics you use, around a third to a half of the adult Australian
population have elevated blood sugar levels in either
the pre-diabetic or the diabetic phase. And the older you get, the more
likely you are to develop it. So around 20% of
Australians over the age of 60 are currently diabetic. And the figures are actually
probably bigger than that. But the official
figures underestimate. Okay, and what he
recognised is the problem of fat infiltrating the
liver and the Pancreas. And he created this diet, 800
calories a day for 8-12 weeks. Told it would never work. But actually what he's found, eight weeks average
weight loss 15 kilos. And if you have been
diabetic for less than four years you
get 87% reversal. Longer than that it's 50%,
but it's still pretty good. And big changes are
in liver fat. And here's Elizabeth before and after she was
a type II diabetic. Has gone down from
size 22 to size 12. And this is Cassie
who is a 26-year-old. She developed diabetes
during her first pregnancy and she developed
polycystic ovary syndrome which is very common, obviously. She went to an 800-calorie
diet, reversed it and I'm glad to say she is now
pregnant with twins. And so that's kind of the book. And other important ingredients,
I wish I could talk about, but I'm sort of running
out of time I suspect. Exercise, which is really about
aerobic fitness and strength. Because the way I see
kind of diet and that sort of thing is it's all
about the combination and getting the combinations
right. And the other is
stress reduction. And there I'm a big
fan of mindfulness. So I could write
about these things. Like I said, the
important thing is to stand up about every 20 minutes. So I think you should all stand up because I've been
talking for that. [ Laughter ] And you can sit down again. [ Laughter ] Marvellous. Does that feel better? Does that feel better
or does that feel worse? Because the chair really is
kind of a killer because we talk about exercise, but the
bare minimum we should do -- how many of you work
in sedentary jobs where you spend a
lot of time sitting, an awful lot of time sitting? There's been some brilliant
studies out of Australia where they do things like they
make people sit down for nine, ten hours at a time and
feed them regular meals, and then they measure
their blood glucose levels, their fat levels and
things like that. And what happens is basically
it's like you put stuff in the pipes and it
just hangs around, it sort of sludges
everything up. It takes much longer for
your body to clear food if you're sitting down. But if you're kind of standing
up and walking and doing stuff, then what happens is it
activates enzymes called lipoprotein lipase and
what they do is they kind of just suck the fat and
sugar out of your blood. And that's why I'm a big fan of
water because if nothing else, you're going to go to
the loo a lot more. Actually, I think water
is brilliant, particularly for doing anything like any form
of calorie restriction diet. Then it's important
to drink lots of water because you're going to
be losing a lot of fluid. I mean, that's why all those
sort of fluid crazy diets, the juicing diets, basically which claim you can lose however
many pounds it is in seven days. A lot of it is water, and
indeed if you're doing sort of an 800-calorie
diet, you're going to see very impressive
weight loss at the beginning, but much of it is
going to be water. So you just need
to kind of glug it. Glug it a lot. Otherwise you get
constipation, you get headaches. You get things like that. So I'm a big fan of water. As I said, I'm a
big fan of standing. And you don't even need
to stand for that long. In this particular study they
did in Australia they only stood for about minute or so. There's also standing desks which are becoming
more fashionable. You burn three times
more calories standing. If you stand for about three
hours a day, five days a week, that's equivalent of about
14 marathons a year in terms of the amount of stuff you burn. And then there's
kind of walking. Walking is jolly good for you. But ideally you want to
kind of put in a burst. You know, if you're going to
walk it's not just like that. It's basically got to -- [ Laughter ] It's just kind of
being a bit active. And that again is good. It's the intermittent
nature of the thing. And if you're a big
more hardcore, anyone see a film I did called
The Truth About Exercise? So this is actually about HIT, which is high intensity
training. And this is very, very short
burst but quite intense. And here's me on
an exercise bike. And this is the inspiration
behind it, professor Jamey Timmins. And this is my three-minute
exercise routine. Actually, to be honest,
it's five minutes, but hey. So I get on an exercise
bike, I warm up for about a minute, maybe less. Then I go like crazy against
resistance for 20 seconds. And it needs to be kind of
enough so that at the end of 20 seconds you don't
feel like you're going to be able to go much further. Then your heart rate is probably
up to 160, 170 by this point. You let it drop until
it's about 120. That's normally about a minute. And then you do it again. Breather. Then you do it
again, then you collapse. It's quite knackering. But if you're not used to exercise then I would just
do the first one 10 seconds, because it is quite hardcore. Again, I can write about it all
the kind of science about it. And again, website if you
want to find out more. But this is amazingly effective
in a short period of time. I do this about three
times a week. And it increases what's called
your aerobic fitness, you heart and lungs by around 10%, which is not what you're
going to get by jogging. I see a lot of people
jogging and I want to say to them, sprint. Because actually
jogging is fine. Jogging is not terribly good for
doing the things you want to do. And the things you really
want out of exercise -- there are lots of things you
get out of exercise, you know, being out in fresh air. But the things you really
want to do is you want to increase your aerobic
fitness, your heart and lungs, and the other thing you want to improve is your
insulin sensitivity. And neither of these
things do you get from low-intensity exercise. It has to be intense. So as I said, six weeks
of doing it initially one and then building up
to three times a week. And those are sort
of figures you get. And also the good thing about
it is it suppresses appetite. So again, as far as I know,
it's the only form of exercise that has actually
been shown long term to be associated
with weight loss. A big study again
out of Melbourne which demonstrated this
a couple of years ago. So lots of other reasons for
doing exercise, whatever form of exercise you want to do. But if you want health, than these are kind
of the two drivers. And then jolly old
strength exercises. You're familiar with
all of these. You know, they are
classic ones, aren't they? So I and Claire do them
first thing in the morning. We roll out of bed and you
kind of have to find the time when you're actually
going to do them, because that's any habit
you've just got to do it. So our rule is you
go, "Wow, that's it." And you do about
30 seconds of them. The plank you can
probably recognise. The standard exercises,
just doing them. But the strength, you're
using your own weight to build up muscle. And it is absolutely essential,
particularly as you get older, that you do this
form of exercise. And you can do it in less than
three or four minutes, honestly. A lot of research in this area, but that's what I would
absolutely advocate. So and the final
thing is mindfulness. Anyone here practice
mindfulness? Anyone? So I had again
Horizon which I think went out about a week ago on
the BBC in which it starts with me doing karaoke
singing very badly. Anyone see that one? And that was really about
the kind of, if you like -- I'm actually a very
high-stress individual. So I wanted to find something
that would help me sleep better and would actually kind
of calm things down. And one of the things
I discovered there was mindfulness. And this is kind of an ancient
Tibetan and Buddhist idea. And but it's obviously
been refined into something you can do in 10
minutes rather than going off to a monastery and hanging
around for six years, because nobody is
going to do that. So there's kind of apps
you can get for it. But essentially it's just
taking time out of your day, and it is literally 10 minutes
in which you kind of sit and you try not to think about all the things you
normally think about and dash around and all that
sort of stuff. There is a mindfulness exercise
they do with a bit of chocolate. You put the chocolate on
your tongue and you try and keep it there
for 10 minutes. You just kind of savour it. And mindfulness is
all about trying to get reconnected to your body. So there are some moments in
the day, for example you sit and you look at the gorgeous
sunset over Sydney harbour and instead of glugging
your Cappuccino and things like that you just sit
and you just look at it. And you just feel
the sun on the face. You're conscious of the
sensations, and that's kind of what mindfulness is about. It's about small moments. I read about it in a book. As I said there are some
fantastic apps out there. And I know one called Headspace. The initial app is
free for 10 minutes and then they obviously
sell you something else. But frankly the 10-minute
one is absolutely fine. Or you go and join a group. Because I think all of these
things are generally better in groups. I think if you want to
lose weight join a group. That's why I've created
an online community. And they are just wonderful
because they are full of incredible, supportive people
who have kind of been there and are nonjudgmental. And I just find it actually
wonderful, I must admit, the kind of stuff
that comes back. And that is I guess the
joy of writing a book, but also having a website. The two kind of talk
to each other. And when you do a book it kind
of goes out there into the ether and otherwise you never
really hear very much about how people get on. But if you have a website, endless information coming
back can be hugely important in conversations. Anyway, so that's mindfulness. Is there anything else? Maybe that's the last one. No. I'm pressing
the wrong button. On occasion of course you
have to give into temptation. You have to. I can kind of talk a bit more
about it, but I'm a chocoholic. Claire isn't, so Claire hides
all the chocolate in the house. And my daughter has
never forgiven me for eating her chocolate
Easter egg. It was that bad. So that's kind of it for now. Thank you. [ Applause ] >> Hello. Thank you. Hello. Thank you. >> Hello, Dr. Daly. >> Thank you, Michael. That was really interesting. So I was going to ask
Michael just a few questions and then you, the audience,
we would be really interested to hear what you'd
like to ask as well. So that was game-changing,
interesting stuff. Why hasn't it happened yet? Because the evidence has
been out there for some time. >> I don't know. I'm genuinely puzzled. I mean, I don't understand why. I think it will change. I think stuff is
happening under the surface. I think everybody
recognises things like Mediterranean diet
are an effective way to go. And I'm sort of passionate
about the studies, the science and things
like that. So I'm optimistic
that slowly things -- I mean most of you know about
the Mediterranean diet, yeah? Do you think you
honestly know what is in a Mediterranean diet though? Because the problem is
most people think pizza and pasta, and no, it's not. It may be what the people in
the Mediterranean eat now, and that may explain why
they've also got soaring rates of diabetes. But it's not what
they used to eat. And that's I guess what
is so great about studies like the PREDIMED study, is
they really sit down in detail and write exactly what was
in it and what was not in it. And the other thing was that
people were twice as likely to stick to the Mediterranean
diet as they were to the low-fat diet because
it's just a lot nicer. Another important
component is the protein. Because I was talking
to a prof yesterday. We were sailing in
Sydney harbour, which was absolutely
lovely and he was saying one of the problems was the
amount of good quality protein in the diet going down. And actually protein is one of
the signals that keeps you full. I'm not a fan of Paleo, but there is something
in that, you know. So when you're talking
about protein you're talking about good quality protein which
is sort of fish, oily fish. You can also get a good protein
obviously in the form of nuts, vegetarian options
and things like that. But it's about the protein,
it's about vegetables. It's about retraining
your tastes. And as I said, olive oil turns
out to be a wonder substance and I haven't got shares
in olive oil companies or anything like that. But I think the science
is there. It's just going to take quite a
long time to kind of translate. >> My chance to ask
you about chocolate. >> Yeah. Are there
any chocoholics here? >> You've got good company. I've watched Michael eating
chocolate when he kind of looks the other direction. He just kind of slips the
chocolate in his mouth. >> My chocolate eating
technique. I can't see myself eating it,
therefore it's not happening. >> So what is it
about chocolate? >> It's the combination
of the fat and sugar. That's the thing, it's
not just sugar, is it? It's the combination. For Horizon, we had the
Van Telicon brothers, fat versus sugar
and in the end -- I'm not going to go eat a bowl
of sugar and I'm not going to start dipping into that. Well, not unless I'm
really desperate. I'm not going to drink a
pink of cream, but you kind of mix them together, whip
them up and you stick them in the freezer and then you
can really spoon the stuff in, can't you. It's ice cream. And the same is true
about chocolate. There is something about
that wonderful manufactured combination, and you
know it's manufactured. You know all these foods
have been carefully created so that you will endlessly eat
more and more and more of them. That's kind of you
know -- even the crisp. They have worked out
how the crunch is going to make you eat more. They have really
manufactured these things to the nth degree so
you will not stop. So the only way I can deal
with chocolate is by giving it to Claire and she
really doesn't care. She can put it in the
cupboard and forget about it. I put it in the cupboard
and I just think about it. And so the only way it works in our household is
we just clear it out. The breakfast cereal
goes, the chocolate goes, the sugary sweets go,
the ice cream goes. The kids complain like
crazy, but they kind of come to terms with it. I'm sure they go out -- my
daughter who's 16 kind of loves to taunt us by bringing in
Mars bars and things like that in the way that 16-year-olds do. But she can live with it. She's got the metabolism for it. But I think that willpower
is grossly overrated. I think it's about creating
the physical environment in which you are not
going to be tempted. >> There's interesting
research about cereal packets. >> Yeah, they did something
in Cornell University where they went around and they
photographed several hundred households, and they found if
there was cereal on the surface as opposed to fruit, then on average people
were 4 kilos heavier. It's all about the
stuff you see. And if you think the
cereal is good for you, then you also believe
in Santa Clause. [ Laughter ] Except I guess some cereal is
better for you than others. Porridge is good for you. Most of the others frankly,
you look at the sugar, you know what's in them. >> What about a few more myths? Dieticians have spoken
to me and said, "Oh, what about starvation mode
if you're doing fasting?" >> Honestly I do sometimes
find myself throwing things at the radio. Because the great thing about
dieticians like doctors is that many of them
are well out of date with what the actual
science says. They're quite happy to
condemn all sorts of things without actually knowing
anything about it. So for a long time
obviously eggs were demonised. Saturated fat was demonised. Not all saturated
fat is the same. Dairy I think broadly
is in the okay category. Clearly meat pies are not. You know, I'm not advocating
you go and stuff yourself full of saturated fat after this. But dairy products on the
whole are quite healthy. But one of the other great myths
is the idea of starvation mode. Are you familiar
with starvation mode? Basically when you stop eating
your metabolism slows down. So people come and talk about that whenever I
talk about 5-2 dieting. They go, "Wow, starvation mode." Actually, the studies have
shown, they got 20 volunteers, stuck them in a metabolic
chamber so they could measure
their metabolism, put them on a low-calorie
diet for seven days and their metabolic
rate went up. Because what happens from an
evolutionary perspective is if you're in a cave, there's
no food around, then you've got to be up, you've
got to be active. You've got to go out there. You've got to be clever. You've got to seek food. So only when you have been
without food for months on end, when your body fat
sinks to about 8-10%, then your body basically goes, there's obviously
no food around. We are in a starvation
situation. I will go into starvation mode. It happens after substantial,
substantial fat loss. Obviously also when you lose
weight your metabolic rate will slow down simply because you
are no longer carrying the equivalent of a heavy suitcase
around with you all the time. But starvation mode
is an utter myth. >> I understand Countdown
To Life went out recently. Is that right? >> It was Countdown
To Life, ABC. It was basically a series about
basically life in the womb and what happens
in the nine months. And one of the things
that was really striking to me was we went out
to the Gambia and looked at a really interesting
study there. Which was the impact
of nutrition in the first few
days of conception. And they had two groups, because
in the Gambia there's a wet season and a dry season. And during the wet season
there's lots of leafy green veg around and during the dry season
there's actually more calories, mainly starchy yams and kind
of grains and things like that. And they've been running a
study there for 70 years now, looking at what is the
difference if you are conceived in the wet season or conceived
during the dry season. Fascinating study. And what they've found is
that if you are conceived in the wet season when your
mother has access to plenty of green leafy vegetables, you
live on average 10 years longer than if you are conceived
in the dry season. It makes that much difference. And they managed to
detect the change. What happens is certain
genes that are associated with your ability to deal with
cancer and also your ability to fight infection are
either switched on or off in the first hours
of conception. Egg meets sperm, all of
this stuff starts to happen. And it plays out over the
next 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, decade. And the other thing we
know, which is I have to say truly terrifying,
and again why I bang on about blood sugars, is
that the blood sugar levels of a mother will predict the
weight of the child at birth, three years, six years,
nine years, 21 years. High blood sugars in pregnancy
are very negatively correlated with the health of a
child later in life. So what we have done, and
by we I mean the Americans, is that we have transformed
the health of the world in a very, very bad way. So in countries like Vietnam
now, rates of amputation -- I was told by a Vietnamese
doctor they're now cutting off more legs than during the
height of the Vietnam war because of type II diabetes. It's gone up from 1% to 10%. And in places in the Pacific
islands it's much, much worse. And the problem is what we've
done is we've introduced them to this dreadful, dreadful diet. They're glugging Coca-Cola. They're eating all the
sugary, carby rubbish. They're eating the
sort of tinned Spam. They're eating all the things
that they think is healthy or at least they like. It's kind of tasty,
it's an introduction. And the problem is they're not
only messing up this generation, it's messing up the
next generation as well. It's a catastrophe. The problems are now
bigger than those of undernourishment worldwide. China, an absolute disaster, unless of course
you're a drug company, in which case, "Hey,
it's fantastic. We've got 100 million diabetics. Woohoo! We're going
to be selling lots and lots and lots of drugs." So I guess why I
ban on about it is because I think it's
hugely important. I think there is still
an opportunity to change. I think it's a diminishing
opportunity, but I do think, as I said, the people who have
been flogging us this rubbish for a long time are kind
of beginning to recognise. Like the tobacco companies. They're in denial. They're going to fund a lot of
research which will tell you that actually sugary crap
is quite good for you. But at some point the
message will get through and at some point governments
will actually spring into action. And then they'll
just move on to Asia, Africa and places like that. I wish I could be
more optimistic. That doesn't sound
very happy, does it? But that's kind of why I
bang on about it, anyway. >> Being more optimistic, Cassie's story is a
really lovely story because it does illustrate
the fact that she managed to come off her medication
within a couple of weeks, including having
gestational diabetes. And the dropping
her sugar levels and improving her diet
seemed to reverse her PCOS. And she has since remained
with her currently with twins and hasn't had gestational
diabetes. >> There is somebody looking
after her, but she contacted us. >> Extraordinary. >> And I said, "Look, Claire
is a better doctor than I am." And she kind of deals with
patients more of the time, whereas I'm kind of
like, "Hey, Telly." [ Laughter ] So Claire has really
been dealing with Cassie and Cassie has responded
fantastically well, but she wasn't insulin-dependant
diabetic. And fortunately she had a great,
understanding endocrinologist. So yeah, that's the good news. The good news is that it's
possible to reverse it, that if you have PCOS, if
you have type II diabetes, if you simply have
elevated blood sugar levels, then you can reverse it. As long as you lose
the abdominal fat. Now the good news is the
abdominal fat is the first fat to go if you kind of go
on a low-calorie diet or you combine it with exercise, and that's what the
book is about. So as I said, 800
calories for eight weeks. Now some people will
find that tough. Though oddly enough
a lot of people find that within a week
or so it gets better. This is based on not
something I read on the back of a Corn Flakes packet,
but is based on the studies of Professor Roy Taylor
who is one of the UK's and Europe's most eminent
diabetes specialists. And another good thing is
that when patients come and wave the book at
their endocrinologists, most of them know Roy Taylor. So instead of going,
"What is this garbage? Who is this loony
Michael Mosley?" they do at least go, "Oh
okay, he's reputable." So I guess that's good news. Now another reason I'm banging
about it, and the thing is if you are pre-diabetic, which basically means your
blood glucose levels are raised but you're not yet
diabetic, if you can lose 10% of your bodyweight,
then you cut the risk of developing type
II diabetes by 90%. And the problem at the
moment certainly in the UK is that once you go
over the threshold and become a type II diabetic, in theory you are offered
advice, dietary advice and exercise which broadly
consists of eat less, run more, next please. And then you're put
on medication. And in Claire's practice for
example, that particular area, as a GP you are paid to
put people on medication. You are not paid to
help them lose weight. So as I said, doctors get
no training in nutrition. When I was in medical
school, we learnt nothing. At our friend's medical
school, he's learning nothing. I was talking to an
Australian doctor the other day and he said he had to look
up the word carbohydrate when he read my book because he
realised he didn't know what a carbohydrate was. [ Laughter ] And yet it does not stop
doctors administering advice, despite the fact they've
had no training in it. They almost certainly
haven't read any of the latest literature. And I think that
should change as well. And who here thinks that
doctors really ought to have some training
in nutrition? Don't you find that astonishing? Basically you learn
about exotica, you learn about Kwashiorkor, you learn about some
malnutrition diseases. But you don't learn
anything about what happens if you've got a patient in
front of you who is overweight and wants your advice. It's probably just as well
that they did a survey recently of American cardiologists and
they offered three minutes of advice and in that
three minutes they got five facts wrong. So maybe it's just as well
you don't get the advice. >> We'd like to have some
question from the audience. I just wonder if
you can come down. There's going to
be two microphones, with one down on the right
side and one on the other side. Just while you're coming
down I'm just going to ask Mike one more question
about artificial sweeteners. >> Artificial sweeteners, yeah. >> Sugars, natural sugars. >> I've tried almost every
artificial sweetener there is. Has anyone tried stevia? I'm sort of meh. Anything else, I've
tried them all. Stevia is sort of
okay in fruit things. The slight problem is,
there was a study recently which they fed artificial
sweeteners to people who don't normally eat them, and in about half the
cases what happens with an artificial
sweetener, it kind of goes down there and isn't absorbed. But it is absorbed and
attacked by the gut bacteria. And unfortunately it is the gut
bacteria that are not that good for you that really enjoy
artificial sweeteners. So what they found is that around half the people they
fed artificial sweeteners to, it induced the generalised
inflammation in the gut. And the change in the
microbiome and nobody kind of knows what that means. But I'm guessing it
doesn't mean anything good. [ Laughter ] So I think broadly if you can
kind of reduce your reliance on sweet things, that's got
to be a kind of good thing. And personally I can
go for fizzy drinks. I love fizziness if
nothing else with a bit of lemon or lime, whatever. And also it's sort of by
retraining the taste buds. I have to say in
Australia I had a croissant. I must confess I had a
croissant this morning. It was unbelievably sweet. I don't know if you have
higher sugar levels than we do, but it was nauseatingly sweet. I'm banging on about that. Sorry. >> Most of the food we've had in Australia has been
absolutely delicious. It really has. [ Laughter ] >> Diplomatic. [ Laughter ] >> Should we move
onto the questions? If you could keep
questions fairly brief because there's quite
a few people. Down here. >> I had a cancer
diagnosis last year. >> Yep. >> And I asked my doctors
what I should be eating and they say eat lots of fruit, eat lots of veg and
adequate protein. As soon as you go anywhere
near the net, there's lots of talk about alkaline diets. There's talk about reducing
your sugar as much as you can, cutting dairy and cutting
meat often as well. I'm interested in your
point of view on all this. >> I think that -- can I ask
you what sort of cancer was it? >> Apparently too
much masturbation. [ Laughter ] Not breast cancer. It was uterine cancer. >> Okay. Yeah. So it's really, really complicated is
the honest answer to it. The link between diet and
cancer is very hard to grasp. As I said, there
is strong evidence that insulin is a driver. There is you know, clearly
cutting sugar would probably be a good idea. Dairy, I don't know the data on. I think that there is some
evidence, but this is more if you're going through
chemotherapy or radiotherapy. But if you fast the day of, the
day before and the day after, what happens is when you
go into the fasted state, your cancer cells continue to
multiply rapidly but the rest of your cells multiply less. And so if you're
taking chemotherapy, which destroys rapidly
dividing cells, then there are some big
studies around which appear to demonstrate at
least in the short term that people tolerate
chemo better if they have fasted
before, after and during. Do you know anything about that? >> I think it's early
days in that. But it seems that people
then do tolerate high doses. >> But general advice
about cancer? >> I mean, alkaline diet
is a relatively new area. I'm not sure how much research
there would be in that area, but I wouldn't discount it. But in general to eat as healthy
a diet as possible is wise. Good luck. >> Thanks. >> A Mediterranean style diet, again there is some good
evidence certainly in animals that it's a healthy
way, again a good way. Again, in animals, in animals,
but in animals they show that intermittent
fasting and fasting in particular were a powerful
way of destroying cancer cells. But I wouldn't promise you that because human studies
have not really been done. But very best of luck. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Let's go to this side. >> I just want to say that you
are one of my absolute heroes, yourself and Dr. Ram
Jang I absolutely admire. >> Oh yes indeed. >> I actually study nutrition. I'm studying nutritional
medicine as well. Just because I am
completely disillusioned with mainstream nutrition
and what you showed up there with the Australian food plate
and the emphasis on low-fat and high-sugar is completely
something I believe in. I intermittent fast
on your advice. My question is, I have a
father who has been diabetic since he was in his 30's. And I have a mother who's
nurse who feeds him carbs. She cooks though
relatively healthy, but he still eats rice
and he loves bread. So here I am obviously
trying to reduce the amount of refined carbs that he eats and really focus
on the other side. I have a sister who
is a doctor who is in my ear basically saying
that mum looked after dad now for this many years,
I should butt out. I bought your book. I think you writing that book
is going to be a game changer, but my question is,
for someone who is in his '80's who's been diabetic
since he was in his '30's, is it really possible
to reverse that? >> I think it is unlikely
frankly at this point. I think he could
get other benefits. I don't know if he's
got a paunch. >> He does have the tummy. >> Yeah. So I think
you know, he's probably on blood pressure pills. He's probably on
cholesterol pills. >> Insulin. >> He's on insulin. He's probably on everything. But it will help reduce. I mean, he's 80, you
don't want to push him. Frankly, if he doesn't want to
do it, you know, he's done well. But if he does want to
do it and he does want to give it a bit of a go -- >> Which he does. >> You may well find he
gets improvement from it. >> Exactly. >> And that's all I would do. I would go gently with him. I wouldn't kind of put him
on an 800 calorie diet. I would go with the low-carb
Mediterranean style version. And there's a GP in the north
of England I've been talking to, David Onwin and he's just been
introducing this to patients. And he's already saved
$50,000 on his drug budget, on his diabetes drug budget just
by doing a few gentle things. >> As a doctor, I
thank God for you. Because it's because of you that other doctors are
actually taking note. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> The other thing he could
do is do some carb swaps. So instead of potatoes
have cauliflower. >> Cauliflower rice is fab. Spiralizes, yeah. [ Laughter ] >> Bread is a hard one. Rye bread is probably
his best bet. Really dense. Unfortunately most brown bread
is just white bread dyed. And then they add
extra sugar to it. >> Thank you. >> They're so naughty,
those manufacturers. So naughty. >> Thank you. Over here. >> Thank you. We've got an argument in
our house at the moment between olive oil
and coconut oil. A lot of young people, if you
go into any health food place, it's just all about coconut oil. And I've been lectured by
several of my daughters about how I shouldn't
be eating olive oil; I should be having
everything as coconut oil. And I was just wondering
of your observation. >> Ask them to show
you the studies. Say to them, "Where are the
studies that demonstrate that?" >> There's a lot of it
on the internet actually. >> No, I mean proper,
randomised controlled studies. [ Laughter ] I don't mean bullet
studies, you know, the sources you read
on the internet. Get them to show them off. But if they find them,
do send them to me, because I've been having me a
look and I haven't found them. It may be that coconut oil
will turn out to be marvellous, but if you look at the
populations like Sri Lanka where they consume a
lot of coconut oil, they have high rates of obesity
and very high rates of diabetes. >> They also consume
a lot of rice. >> They also consume a lot
of rice, so it's confounding. But no, if nothing
else, incentivize them to do a bit of science. A randomised, controlled trial,
that's what I want to see. [ Laughter ] >> Thank you. >> And not one that is funded by
the coconut oil manufacturers. [ Laughter ] >> Thank you. Next. >> You talked about today
having good protein in the diet. I've often thought about
going on a vegetarian diet but not being convinced
that it's as healthy as having meat or
fish in the diet. I was wondering what the
current research was in terms of if a vegetarian
diet can be as healthy as having fish and
meat in the diet. >> I think so, depending
on obviously what you have for the vegetarian diet. Because again, I think that
rice cakes are the devil. They're kind of thrown
out there as something that is terribly healthy but actually they're just
sugary sort of ricey things. Anyway, so yeah, I mean unfortunately
I don't know enough about vegetarian things. But without a doubt you can
get -- tofu is good stuff. Curd is good. You know, to be honest, if
you could be a pescatarian -- is that the right word -- anyway, fish is obviously
an easier way of getting good proteins. It could be a shift. The alternative is you could do
a sort of 5-2 vegetarian thing where you basically
eat meat five days and two days a week
you're a vegetarian. Because there are lots of kind
of moral and ethical reasons for being a vegetarian. I'm at the moment
unconvinced by the data where it says being
vegetarian is healthier than being a meat eater,
unless you live in America. Because in America, the
way the cattle is reared, full of growth hormone,
is pumped full of the most amazing rubbish. And a lot of the studies which
suggest red meat eating is bad for you are based
on American studies. Whereas the European studies
have broadly suggested that red meat eating at least
in moderate quantities is fine. And by moderate I mean a piece
of meat which is like the size of your palm, not like the
size of two of my hands. You know, you're
talking about four ounces and I can't even translate that. But yeah, I mean I wish
I knew more about it. I vow to go away and
learn more about. >> Reasonable answer. >> I think it's an interesting
approach, trying a couple of days a week and kind of
shift yourself gradually. >> Thank you. >> And there is a
quell of evidence again that vegetarian type proteins
can be healthier for you. There's a guy called
Voltz Longo who bangs on about this in my ear himself. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. We'll go to the lady
on my right. >> Hello, I wonder if you
would mind updating us on what the latest science
tells us about the link between diabetes,
ovarian and breast cancer and the length of lactation. >> Okay, so I'm not very
familiar with lactation, I must admit I'm afraid. Do you know anything? I know essentially
the links are broadly that central obesity tends to
drive increased insulin levels. So what happens is the fat
kind of permeates your muscles and then particularly
if you have a kind of unhealthy carbohydrate diet,
which means fizzy and that kind of stuff, then elevated insulin
is a driver for breast cancer. It is also a driver for
obesity and for diabetes. So in a sense insulin is
a kind central mechanism for all of this. >> Do you have some information
about links with lactation? >> There's fairly
strong evidence that the more women breastfeed
and the length of time, the less they are likely to
get diabetes, type II diabetes. >> Okay, a protective
effect of breastfeeding. >> Yes. >> For the child or the mother? >> The mother. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Because there is some
really interesting research on the gut biome. And that one certainly suggests that breastfeeding produces a
much healthier mix of bacteria in the gut, and that
ultimately is likely to lead to less problems with weight
gain and diabetes later in life. But I'll have a look into it. >> But breastfeeding is known to
protect against breast cancer? >> Yes, there's certainly
evidence there. And I was just wondering
how current it was. >> There appears to
be strong evidence. >> Breastfeeding is a
bloody wonderful thing. [ Laughter ] >> Thank you. >> I won't shy to say. >> Thank you. >> Hi there, in terms of
the 5-2 Mediterranean diet, what's your thoughts
on natural sugars such as fructose, and also salt? >> Okay, so table sugar consists
of 50% fructose, 50% glucose. So if you have something
like agave syrup, it is 65% fructose, 35% glucose. If you actually look at
its breakdown in the body, agave syrup is arguable worse
for you than table sugar. Because it actually has --
the problem with fructose is that most other forms of sugar
you absorb, the sugar you get for example, galactose
and things you get in dairy can be broken down
by other parts of the body. Only your liver can
break down fructose. So what happens is you have
your fructose in the form of your agave or table sugar
or whatever it might be, and it goes to the liver. Now if you have only a small
amount, your liver is fine. It processes it. If it is swamped because it's
just had a great knocking back of fizzy drink, then what
happens is it lays it down as fat. And so your liver becomes
fatter and fatter and fatter. So sugar is converted
into fat in your liver. And this will happen for
sucrose, for glucose, for whatever you call it. But it seems to be
particularly bad for fructose. >> And fructose is to
produce more inflammation in the process? >> Unfortunately, once again,
fructose is in fruit juice. So the orange juice you have
has plenty of fructose in it. An orange has it, but you're not
going to eat that many oranges. Because to get that glass of orange juice it would be
good exercise if nothing else. No one is going to
eat eight oranges. They're just not going to do it. Plus, you get fibre. And the result is -- the reason for eating fruit whole is the
fibre slows down the absorption of glucose, the absorption
of fructose. So your body just doesn't have
the same job to deal with. And that's why I really
don't like juicing. You know, I just think it's much
better to eat the whole thing. And that's also why we
kind of banned our kids. I mean, they ignore us
obviously these days, but we banned our kids from
fruit juice, from fizzy drinks and all these sort of things. >> Thank you, we're
running out of time. A couple of minutes left. One more question. Just before that I want to say
Mike will be doing book signing in the foyer if anyone
is interested. Thank you for the
fascinating questions so far. We'll go to the lady over there. >> I'll be really quick. So I've got four daughters,
six, ten, 13 and 15. And I'm wondering
is there a strategy for introducing a 5-2 diet
and what age do you suggest? >> Okay, in terms of 5-2 diet, certainly not while
they're growing, partly because we have
no evidence for use. There was people that said, "Oh, well it will make
them more likely to develop anorexia
or eating disorders." And we've never seen
any evidence of that. But we're very cautious
about going that way. >> If they're not overweight
I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. The 5-2 diet is best
for people who want to lose a bit of weight. It's also possible to do 6-1. But broadly I would go for
a more Mediterranean style. >> But I worry about
what you said before, that you were skinny
on the outside but not healthy on the inside. >> Indeed. Waist measurement is probably
the most critical thing. Unless you're going to stick
them through a dexo scan, which unless there's
reason to do so, I wouldn't. >> It's just healthier
eating with Mediterranean. >> I think it's something
that's worth exploring because clearly there is a huge
problem with childhood obesity at the moment and there's an
excellent guy called Ludwig who writes about this. He's in Boston. And he basically
has been banging on about fructose
and all those things. And I can't even remember
his name, but Ludwig. And Lustig is also
another great one on sugar. But broadly, you know,
I am very cautious about dealing with teenagers. >> What you can do though is you
can encourage them not to snack. Because they do snack really
on only unhealthy stuff. Because snacking
was kind of invented by the snacking industry. People just don't need to, unless they're doing
massive amounts of exercise. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. [ Applause ]
