How To Start And Grow A Creative Agency (with Chris Do)

What is up brand builders Stephen Houraghan  here on the Brand Master Podcast and in this   episode i am delighted to have the one the only  mr Chris Do on the show who shares his insights   about how to grow your creative agency now if you  don't know who Chris is he's an emmy award-winning   designer director ceo and chief strategist of  blind he's the founder of the future an online   education platform with a mission of teaching 1  billion people how to make a living doing what   they love he also sits on multiple boards and he's  taught sequential designer multiple colleges and   is lectured all over the world so yeah when  it comes to creativity and the business of   design Chris Do is a real life master now i really  enjoyed this episode it felt like a chat in a bar   over a beer and Chris opened up about his early  days in the agency world scraping through contacts   to find clients and his top three things that  he would do if he had to go back and start at   the bottom so if you're a freelancer or an agency  owner you're not going to want to miss the value   bombs that hris shares on this episode of the  brandmaster podcast you can probably see by the   childish smile on my face i'm absolutely delighted  and privileged to have the one and only mr Chris   Doon the show Chris thank you so much for taking  the time to join us it is my absolute pleasure   steven and thank you for your patience with me  as i work through some of my personal issues no   problem that Chris just came back from from the  dentist but i was delighted to find out that he   didn't have any anesthetic so we're good to go um  now uh for for those of you who don't know Chris   though as a you know i would imagine that most of  the people who know me know Chris because you know   we're in and around the same circles but obviously  Chris is on a a much much bigger scale he's been   uh a content machine now for for the past uh  seven years or so um and you know he's just been   cranking it out and he's filled this gap that  has been gaping for such a long time which is   to help freelancers creatives to learn the  business of creativity and the future has just   taken off and um it's been great to see it's been  great to see not just the the uh the help that has   gone out there with the free content that really  uh you know in some cases could be charged for but   the the help that it's offered the community and  to fill that gap from what is i think we can all   agree kind of a fractured education system so i i  think that's been that's been really really great   to see now for those of you who do not know Chris  um there is a great episode on the future podcast   um i think it's episode 117 where Chris goes  through his origin story emily is is interviewing   him and it's a great episode actually i just uh  re-listened to it recently on the build up to this   um and Chris you're a great storyteller you  know you draw people in you give that detail um   and you know it was the story of of kind of  having to leave vietnam uh you know because of war   going over to the states kind of being um you  know impoverished and kind of having to to kind   of come up out of that um and to get a scholarship  into a prestigious art school and then realizing   at that point that you you had a real talent  so so if if you do have the time to go and   listen to that show i definitely recommend  it it's it's not just it's it's entertaining   because there's some candid moments in there for  shares about you know uh struggles that he went   through it's it's it's a great episode and where  i'd like to actually pick it up with you Chris is   is kind of from that moment from from the moment  you you kind of started to realize that you had   a talent and you were coming out of art school to  the point that you said to yourself okay i think   i'm going to do something on my own here i'm going  to start my own business can you tell us a little   bit about the journey from there to the moment  that you decided to start your own business   okay so i i want to make sure i answer the  right question because i've been thinking   about entrepreneurship for a very long time from a  very young person but i didn't know it was called   entrepreneurship it was just like how do you make  an extra buck because i want to have financial   freedom even as a kid i was like finding something  to sell so in terms of your specific question   what time period are you looking for so  i can make sure i answer that question   okay so so you leave school uh you know you've  uh you've got your credentials obviously there's   there's there's going to be some some experience  gained in the meantime and the realization that   you know i can turn this talent that i have and  this experience that i have into a business so   so really about that journey and that kind of  realization and that moment that you decided   uh not to become an entrepreneur but to just turn  what you had into an entity in and of itself okay   perfect um i've always desired to be able to  be self-directed but i didn't know was going to   happen in the way that it happened and i think  it might be worthwhile to kind of spend a moment   to share kind of the time and place in which i'm  i'm operating in so that people have some context   while i was still finishing up school  i had an opportunity to work on an ad   agency so this is the semester  right before i'm about to graduate   i get this opportunity to go and work on an  ad agency so i take that and i spend three   and a half months there and then they offer me a  job and i'm still kind of like like a full-time   freelancer i have a salary i don't have all the  benefits but i'm going back to school now and   i'm flying back and forth from los angeles to  seattle every other week it seems like and i'm   feeling like i'm living in some kind of hollywood  film right now because i don't have any concern   about getting a job and i'm working at this great  ad agency they're taking really good care of me   they put me up in a corporate apartment i have an  expense account everything that you could think of   with advertising agencies i got and somewhere  along the way i was like this is not the right   place for me i'm a designer i want to  design things and with advertising it's   about simplicity of execution because all the  design stuff gets in the way of the communication   so i was feeling like i'm this racehorse that came  into the track but they're only running me at five   miles an hour so ultimately i quit finish school  and think about what i'm going to do with my life   i hadn't prepared for any of the on-campus  interviews which you're supposed to because   in my mind i was thinking i'm gonna go work for  that agency so i blow all this stuff off and now   i graduate i'm like uh what's supposed to happen i  missed all of the orientation the senior portfolio   thing i missed all of it every single part and  so the only thing i can think of is let me find   another job so i go and work for epitaph records  uh mostly because one person that i knew from   school was the creative director his name is fred  hidalgo he's amazing he's a brilliant person i get   that job a month and a half in he gets fired and  i'm like i gotta get out of here because the only   reason why i'm here was for to work underneath him  and to learn from him so i quit and i freelance   so it's now i'm starting to enter like the  real job market and i'm starting to figure out   i need to become some kind of entity because i've  tried corporate america in advertising i've tried   the punk rock music scene and neither of those  two things worked for me for different reasons   and so i feel like now the only way forward  is to figure out how to start my own company   so i'm plotting in my mind like when at what point  will i know that i'm ready coincidentally this is   a matter of a few months here like three months  after graduating from school my uncle calls me up   he says i know since the kid you've  always wanted to create your own company   i know you just finished school do you want to  start a business because i have a business partner   who wants to invest in a design company it's  like things are just falling in my lap now yeah   so he calls me up and i'm like yeah so  he says put together a business plan   didn't know what one was meet us at the westin  bon adventure in downtown los angeles this is in   1995 and i meet with him and his business partner  he's a real estate developer he builds hotels   so this is not just like some little thing  i remember staying up for nights prior to   to presenting on on this business plan with  three five-year projections i called up an   investment banker a friend of mine i guess my  friend's father who was in that space he guided   me through the process i sit down and meet  with him he does what most business people do   he flips through it just to make sure  you've done something he puts it away   he goes let's do business he reaches in  his coat pocket he pulls out a checkbook   on the spot while we're still having dinner  he writes me a check for ten thousand dollars   writes me a check right on the spot i think was  ten thousand dollars i might be messing this part   up he signs it he said he tears out and gives  it to me he's like this is a good faith gesture   we don't even have a deal steven i don't know what  i'm getting into this is the first time literally   the first time i've met this person and they're  already writing me a check and i'm feeling like   i have a rabbit's foot stuck up my butt or  something because things just seem to happen   well that's i mean i was going to ask a question  later on was there ever part of the steep learning   curve where you felt out of your depth but i think  it's it's better to bring that question forward   now because obviously you must have been you must  have been uh you know really stressed you you must   have been thinking i can't do this what were  you going through when when you were preparing   for all of this yeah i i think people who are  really successful are usually one of two things   one is they're really talented and they know what  they're doing and two they're just uh dumb enough   not to think they can fail i fit into the ladder  of the two categories so i'm aware but i'm not so   aware i have belief and i just think doesn't this  happen for everybody you know you got a school   you get some some person to cut you a check  and now i think about it i think it was five   thousand dollars it was a lot of money back then  for me i was like holy cow who does this so i'm   not afraid of starting a business i think and  and falsely so that talents will take me there   i mean so far talents opened all kinds of doors  for me so why would i believe otherwise right   some something just pinged me did you hear that  let me close that so i i'm just thinking look i'm   not even out of school i get a job in advertising  i finish school i don't prepare for anything i get   another job in the entertainment space i'm  freelancing around town and before i know   a business opportunity presents itself so i'm not  so worried yet i have this money and that's enough   i basically put in my notice i i finish up my  booking and then i start this company and i'm   in business for myself i go to the bank i i do  a dba doing business as i file like the city   tax and license and all that kind of stuff i'm in  business except for i have one huge problem i have   zero clients i don't know how to get clients  i don't know how to do project estimating i   don't know how to do the conference call to  procure new work all i know is how to design so there there you are you've got a ten thousand  dollar check you you've just opened open up you're   in business where do you go to from there where  do you know where to spend your money where do   you know where to invest your time how do you go  out and get that first client because you don't   know any of this how did you figure all that  out yes so the reason why i gave that context   for you is because all of my first clients  came from people i just recently worked with   so the people i knew at the ad agency sent me  work the people i just graduated with some of   them got jobs eventually and found ways to bring  back work to me um the the music label company   some of the the people who worked there hired me  to do some independent contracting freelance work   and where i was freelancing around town they  still called me and now it was under my terms   so this was a very different shift from being  a freelancer who's trading my time for money to   being an independent contractor because i was  just working remotely now and of course i'm an   enterprising young person at that point so as soon  as i get work i'm calling up friends i need help   because i'm getting more leads more opportunities  at work than i can physically do instantly right   and here's the tip i want to give to anybody  listening to this when you work somewhere   whether it's full-time freelance uh whatever  it is that you're doing independent contractor   and make an impression on people so that they  remember you be unforgettable in that way and   that will be your number one source for leads i  don't know if anybody else has ever experienced   this interviewing you before but you i've got a  lot of questions lined up and it just seems that   you progressively answer them because you know  what's next so and that was you know leading into   getting your first clients um obviously when we  have small business owners starting out you know   most of them they don't have the added pressure  that you had of having an investor and having to   answer to those but they do have the pressures of  having to put food on the table um you know they   they might have kids at home and of course  that's a pressure in and of itself when   first-time entrepreneurs or freelancers go out  into the market and they have that moment of   oh no i need to get clients fast how much weight  would you put on turning around and tapping into   the existing network that you already have  as the starting point to get things rolling   yeah great question i i think there's there's two  ways to get business there is the slowly planting   and building relationships so that when you need  business businesses already coming to you or they   i decided today i'm going to start doing business  and i would need to do business development   so again i'm going to take it back to school so  when i was in school i worked with a number of   people sometimes for money and most of the times  just to help each other out sometimes i didn't get   paid actually most of times i did not get paid  but i was building a relationship with people   i was making an impression on people so when those  same people went out of graduated finished school   and they went on to their career they remembered  me they remember the impression and i know you   talk a lot about branding so this is me brand  building without even knowing what the word is   and so some of my earliest leads came from  former uh bosses co-workers they hired me   to work on a commercial for k2 skis i i got to  work on a nike job just two years out of school   a massive soccer project because like you're good  with type i think you now said you're starting   a design and production company i got some work  why don't you do it because i just trust you and   people want to help people out that they like  right and they trust and that's what i was doing   i got to work on a buick car commercial because  somebody that i went to school with became a   director and they got opportunities and they  recommended me to their to their friends and   their and their their editors so when they cut the  commercials like who do you know who could do this   and that's how i got those opportunities so at  this point i have zero biz dev skills i don't know   anything about marketing i don't think about sales  and it's just because of the impression i've been   able to make prior to that yeah and i'm i have  found this through my own experience as well but   the more i talk with very successful people um  you know the the more the the the commonalities   appear one that comes to mind is michael janda he  got uh you know the likes of uh google nintendo   um you know big big companies because he's one of  the nicest guys you'll ever meet and he lives by   the philosoph philosophy be nice to people and  that comes back to you so um you know certainly   as you go uh throughout your career being nice  to people helping people um you know being a   giver and not a taker that all comes back and it's  the whole karma thing and but really starting off   at the the beginning and turning around if you  don't have any clients at the moment and looking   at the people in and around your network that  is is such a great way to get started and if if   Chris Do is getting started that way if the  likes of michael jana is getting started that way   then you can get started that way as well now one  thing you you touched on um just very very briefly   was how quickly you started to to bring people  into your world and and you did this through you   know to turning around to your friends because you  had more work than you knew what to do with so as   going from you know uh solopreneur Chris Do of  course you have these investors behind you how   did you first start to to grow your team and what  were the first kind of tasks that you let go of   that you were comfortable to let go of really  good question and this will shock or surprise   a few people in that when i left these companies  either in a freelance or full-time capacity   they knew that i was on my own and so they just  reached out to me and said hey Chris i never   got the opportunity to work with you we need to  develop some identities for these on-air brands   i'm like great here's my rate and as soon  as i got to work i called up my friends   because i was already kind of thinking  like that that i need to delegate this work   so i'm not even a couple of months out of school  getting opportunities and just hiring my friends   as fast as i could just calling up people like  uh how are you happy with the job that you're   at right now because i'd love to work with you  i remember you from school and so that's who   my initial team were they're all classmates and  they all happen to be women by the way but they   would eventually either quit their job or uh they  were on it like in between jobs so like i'll come   and help you and so i would just feed them the  work and we we had this kind of very egalitarian   way of working where you know what you work this  much you should take this percentage of the job   and i'll take some of the management uh the money  the leftover if you will and it just worked out   really beautifully so i was delegating from the  jump what i was doing was there were these uh   people who were really good but not as say good at  me at doing what i do so they would show me ideas   i would art direct it it's like you know this is  a little bit off the brief and why don't you try   these ideas and they would work on that while i  just continue to manage client relationships and   and when they were done with the day  they would put their files on the server   i would open them up i'm like okay these look  good i'm going to curate which ones i want to   share with the client i'll make some tweaks  here and there and my friends were really cool   when when they saw the changes i made  they weren't offended they were like wow   i like those improvements i like the changes  that you made and we learned and grew together   and that's something that kind of strikes me um  because how much how much of that do you think was   natural that just that that instinct to delegate  immediately because i know from everybody who i   talk to and from my own initial struggles with  growth it was that feeling that i needed to do   everything and i know that that cripples so many  designers so many freelancers so many creatives   they get to a point where their pipeline is  full they have people who want to work with them   and they cannot let go of that need  to be in every area of their business   how did you do you think it is a natural  thing that you just immediately started   to delegate and if you were crippled by that  need how how would you start to let go of that   great question so if i tell you a little bit  about my past and it'll seem very obvious and   then we can talk about like how one adopts that  kind of mindset so when i was in junior high this   is pre uh these uh bulk discounters where you can  buy like candy at bulk prices my uncle he owned   a liquor store and they had candy so i would say  you know to my cousin hey can i buy these a whole   sale from you he's like yeah of course you can so  he made no money i just put an order like here's   all i want and they have the really good candy not  the kind of candy you can get at school and so he   would give me the box i would go to school and i'm  a really shy person so i don't really want to sell   the candy so i just hire classmates i'm like you  want to sell the candy and then they're like yeah   so i said here's what i'm giving you i need this  amount back and then this is what you're going   to make and this is what i'm going to keep and it  was working really well and i didn't want to get   in trouble because i wasn't sure if this was 100  legal at school you know and what kids would do is   my my friends from junior high they would eat the  candy and throw the boxes the wrapper on the floor   so i paid another kid to pick it up because i  don't want to get in trouble so everybody worked   it was a little ecosystem and it was going really  well yeah so like i said i'm an entrepreneur   enterprising young person the problem here and  the lesson i learned was my supply chain was   very inconsistent because my cousin didn't  always go to work because he was my age you   know so yeah he'd only go to the liquor store  every once in a while and put in the order so   i had massive supply chain problems there i'm  like you know what this is not working i had   to figure out something else and the profit  margin even back then for me was not enough   i need to sell something that has a huge profit  margin so i i move into selling something else   which i now i know i'm not supposed to do  i i you know where this is going right now and that was really great because the profit  margin was awesome except for it wasn't legal   i'll jump forward to high school you know i go and  work for a guy who does silk screening i'm in my   senior year in high school and i was working for  him as an anchor i would trace over his drawings   in a rapidograph pen cut ruby lift and do all  the color separations and he paid me a lot of   money he paid me at that time 18 dollars an  hour which i'm like this is freaking great   i could make a living doing this except for  i realized something one day i'm working for   him you know freelancer i asked him like could i  order shirts from you like how much does that cost   he says well they're 500 525 a shirt and i said  what are the other costs he goes that's it is   there a minimum he goes yeah like 20 shirts so  i'm thinking this is great i'm working too hard to   make this money what i'm going to do is i'm going  to go to school i'm going to find clubs or groups   of people who need t-shirts designed i would  design them and then i'll hire my former boss to   print them i'll collect the difference between the  two so i just sold the shirts for twenty dollars a   shirt i got charged five and a quarter for them  and that's how i made money so you're gonna see   that there's a pattern of behavior here and  most of it is influenced from this one book   my older brother who his name is arthur and he's  four years older than me he's like hey kid you   might like this book he throws his book at me and  it's the adventures of the great brain written by   tom fitzgerald i've never heard of them yes so  this is a classic okay and it's an old book and   it's these kids who grew up in in like utah like  during uh early early like what is it 20th century   like early 1900's here and it's simple way of  life like where a penny would get you a lot   and tom uh the great brain or john or one of  those things uh one of the brothers he was   always thinking about how to swindle kids out of  money he would create a carnival he would do all   kinds of stuff and my brother gave me that book  because he knew that i was gonna feel my my drive   to build a business and in these little kids books  it was the blueprint this is how you make money   it sounds like the richest man in babylon i  don't know if you read that book but it's a   very kind of similar thing and it's it's it's  based on the you know just the basic principles   of of money and that's obviously the basic  principles of entrepreneurship or or you know uh   building a business and i think you know really  uh that is the missing piece for so many people   is that ability to delegate and to to let go of  those tasks so if someone was was again someone   was crippled in in that that state what would you  what would you ask them to look at as the first   step to letting go of tasks just to kind of the  litmus test dipping their toe in the water to see   to see how this feels yes i'm gonna make a logical  argument and i understand this is an irrational   attachment okay so we'll we'll try to work through  this so here's the logic and my business coach   told me this before typically we're afraid to hire  people because a couple different reasons one is   we don't like to fire people creative people are  risk or not risk averse they're just we don't want   to bring up anything that could be con conflict  like there's a conflict so we're gonna avoid it so   we're conflict diverse so he taught me how to fire  people so i would have the courage to hire them   that's number one number two is we have this  belief that no one will do it as well as we can   so i want to tackle this uh on two fronts number  one is it's true right now when you hire somebody   they're not going to be as good as you but when  you hire two people who are like say 80 of your   skill level that's 160 percent of who you are  and with this art direction and leadership and   management you can get that to your level and so  being an entrepreneur in my mind is being a good   mentor and a teacher if you think of yourself like  that then you can do this number three is when you   say people are not as good as you it's because  you're not you're not paying enough you're not   hiring better um guy kawasaki talks about this in  lessons that he learned from apple he says that a   players hire a players b players higher c players  because they're afraid they hire people less than   them because they don't want to be shown up now  if i were to ask any listener here whatever it is   that you think you're really good at doing are you  saying no one on earth can do it better than you   and that's where the conversation stops  yes of course are people better than you   so why not build into your budget enough padding  that you can actually hire the best in the world   i don't mean this as some kind of conceptual  exercise i mean this for real when i used to   make commercials and music videos for a living  we had so much money in the budget that i can   actually hire the person who worked on a feature  film that you love who is the technical director   because that's the best person like we can hire  the best not in town but the best in the world   and that way we can ensure to the client  that we're doing the very best that we can   yeah and and i think there's within what you're  saying there there's the whole um scarcity   abundance mentality at play as well um and if you  just kind of allow yourself to to have that sense   of abundance and and you know you're not afraid  of of you know where the the next one is coming   from then you can kind of be a little and it  does take uh some guts it does take a little   bit of bravery to do that um but it is it's a  glass ceiling that so many people are stuck with   because they they never get past that that that  challenge they never get past that that hurdle   of you know trying on for size what it feels like  to bring somebody into your business to do just a   small task and if they if they can do a small task  then you can bring somebody in to do a bigger task   and all of a sudden you're stepping away so i  think that's it's um you know it's something that   i hear of time and again and i think there's some  great tips in there uh for for people to take away   now when when it comes to when it comes to how  you you grew obviously there's there's a lot of i   think you hit the snowball effect of of referrals  and uh for some people it happens that way and   you know for some people that snowball keeps going  for other people you know they get referrals and   and then they don't get that momentum and they  they don't get that snowball so you know they they   hit that point of of marketing and kind of going  out there did you ever have to go to market to   to actually do active marketing or did you ride  that snowball um all the way to success there   are periods in the history of both companies  where i've had to go out and drum up work   for sure and so this is not just well once you get  on the positive side of things you can just sit   back and relax and everything works out so there's  a period in time when the work did come in you   tap into the friends and family network and the  friends of friends network and eventually that's   going to dry up right because if anyone hits pause  or they have another option or they don't have a   creative thing for you to work on eventually going  to run out of people to talk to and so i remember   i think it was about a year and a half into my  business i have four or five people working for   me on a full-time freelance basis and i'm like oh  my god we have no work what am i gonna do and so   i have to i picked up the phone i literally looked  in a directory and called up a bunch of sales reps   and these are people who represent directors  and production companies for work i called   every single one of them and i send them like  my you know professional quote unquote not that   professional real and each and every single one  of them just turned me down right after the other   it's like i remember a woman her name is shaban  and she's like chris really like your work i just   don't know what to do with you and that was a  very polite way of saying your work is not very   commercially viable i don't know how to get work  for you although i recognize that you have some   talent right and so after making these calls i'm  like oh i'm out of options and so we sat around   at the conference table which was a door with saw  horses you know just wanted everybody now that was   a conference room table and i said does anybody  know anyone that might be able to give us work   and i remember this woman and and she was our  office manager and she was at that time dating   one of my friends from school her name is patricia  patricia says Chris i know somebody and patricia   is not in the industry she doesn't know any  of this stuff i'm like oh god is this going   to work she goes yeah i know someone her name is  karen and she works at this agency i can get us   a meeting i'm like okay awesome she was the only  one who said i know somebody let's talk to them   i go into that agency i present my work to  um uh her name's karen karen costello tiny   agency i show her the work she's very polite she  looks at and it's like oh very nice okay thanks   and i close up the the portfolio we leave and  i'm thinking oh what a waste of time this is the   wrong person she doesn't like the work whatever  little did i know that karen would soon be poached   by another agency who was on the upswing and  she was going to work on the mitsubishi motors   account so karen unbeknownst to me couple  months later calls me up and says Chris   we got something to look at do you do you want to  try this thing i'm like sure i wind up doing that   job it wasn't the greatest of experience but then  she came back and said you know what we'd like to   have you work on the entire campaign now wow so  yeah i've had to go out and hustle i'm not good   at it and i tell myself all kinds of stories  and this is the lesson to learn here which is   you never know what the other person is thinking  so stay out of the results business focus on the   process did you did you call up enough prospects  today did you do your best prepare for the meeting   and were utterly professional and polite and  and did your best after that you stay out of   the results business because you never know what  people are actually thinking or saying or doing   long after you leave and again this is this  is just the same patterns that we we see   time and again like the more successful people you  speak to the more stories you hear even richard   that the story that you just told me reminded  me of richard branson when he was sitting down   uh when it was virgin atlantic and he  had his is his group around him just   just hustling just trying to find that next dollar  and you know if if the most successful people   in the world have have gone through this  as well then you know it shouldn't be   uh you know beneath anybody else to to just roll  up the sleeves and and just think about this you   know where can we get business you know who can  we ask who can we pick up the phone and call   and it's just really that resourcefulness um and  and that uh you know that ability to to kind of   survive that survival instinct to to really do  what it takes to go out and get business so it   doesn't always need a fancy funnel and and you can  kind of get caught in the weeds a little bit there   especially if you're at the point where there is  not too much business coming in you know sometimes   it's just about hustling sometimes it's just about  rolling up those sleeves and picking up the phone   and and asking those people and as  you said you know you you don't know   what door is it's gonna open next because you  know you so many so many great projects have   have come from stories like that and again  i'm just hearing this stuff time and again   now when it comes to the progression of  uh the the growth of of your business   at what point did you um at what point  did you say to yourself okay you know   we're we're growing we've got referral business  coming in we've got you know freelancers on the   books but i need systems in place and i need  processes in place at what point did you turn   to your business and start looking at it as this  kind of machine that needs processes and systems   yeah i described the early years of our business  as we're going to jump out of the airplane and   build a parachute on the way down so it's a little  bit sloppy for example i actually got clients   before i got my business license i i started  collecting payment before i hired an accountant   before i got legal you know it was  all these things because sometimes   we can overthink over plan over prepare and our  business goes in a totally different direction   or we use up all the capital that we need to stay  in business so it was about cash flow management   just extending the runway so i'll admit this  i'm not proud of this i use bootleg typefaces   before i paid for them and when we made some  money i bought the entire adobe font collection   i just did it was like eight thousand dollars was  a lot of money back then i'm like we just now own   this it was just like i had some bootleg copies  of the software and a few legitimate copies and   so you just kind of do that and i think a  lot of people when they're starting business   you might go to a school that teaches you here's  how you run a business and i'm telling you right   now in the real world unless your finance unless  you have a lot of money it doesn't really work   like that you start calling up clients today  before you have the business cards printed   you don't need to hire an account and  set up all your books although that one   i might have you do first because it sets up  a pattern that is kind of sometimes hard to do   you know so if you're in accrual or cash basis  accounting system you can totally mess up your   system so there's a handful of things but don't  get overburdened with systems and protocols   here's the other thing i have a friend his  name is mo he's been on the channel many times   so mo is the kind of guy who's barely a couple  of years into his business and he's constantly   learning and evolving he's trying to systematize  everything before he even sees the pattern   i think we're trying to be too efficient before  we actually even know what the heck we're doing   and so you know what you know how i learned  to build file structures for my my projects   when a freelancer came in and it's like okay  i've finished the work i copied it to the server   i'm like great thanks so much and then look at his  project folder system i'm like this is great then   i went in copy that folder set i removed all the  assets renamed it for what we need and i said okay   everybody here's the new template yeah so that's  how that system was invented because a freelancer   who had been freelancing longer at bigger  companies brought that system to us bidding   i just used like uh like a page layout program  to do my bidding until a freelance producer came   in and a spreadsheet like go figure so we're now  using excel and now from that point forward we're   using excel to build our bits because there's  no mistake in terms of the math whereas before   sometimes i would mess up on the bids yeah and and  i i think i think really the the kind of undertone   of that is is that you know when you just kind of  roll up your sleeves and and get in there and and   learn on on the basis of the mistakes that you  make it it kind of the the quote from mike tyson   uh always comes back which is that everybody has a  plan until you get punched in the face and getting   punched in the face um through your business  learning those those you know learning through   mistakes falling down picking yourself up finding  file systems here and there sometimes that that's   how you you kind of build your your business you  just add a piece here and add a piece there um   over time of course systems are important but you  you can pick up different systems along the way   when it when it when it came to kind of  progressing what you did now now um i speak   a lot about branding and brand strategy and  um the for me anyway it just felt like this   organic natural progression because i was doing  uh things for for clients and and i start to   to ask these kind of questions these these bigger  questions and it was just like this thread that   i kept pulling at um and and that seems to be the  the natural progression uh certainly for for those   outside of of the agency world kind of freelancing  because they're working directly with clients   is is that how strategy kind of uh came  into your world and landed on your your   uh map by by just pulling that thread and  asking those bigger questions no not at all i love that we have different stories about  how we figured this stuff out right yeah   so for over two decades i made commercials and  i worked for ad agencies so they figured out the   bigger strategy the marketing strategy and they  wrote the creative briefs and they would send   that over to us and what they were looking for  us to do was to translate a a very loose script   into a tangible thing and so i thought this  is great and you know we got to work with the   biggest advertising agencies in the world  right and working a multi-billion dollar   brands so i was like uh i know how to do any of  this stuff and i'm starting to hear this word   branding brandy what is branding i don't know  it's like everybody's talking about it but so   it wasn't until i met my former business partner  jose who teaches me this framework on how to   design and build better websites that i start to  see the connection between understanding the needs   of a user the strategic like the global business  objective and he would drop all these terms   that i was completely unfamiliar with and he was  designing something from the bottom up without a   brief from a client because in the in the digital  space and when in product design you don't have   such briefs given to you and so i'm learning  all this stuff and i'm seeing this connection   parallel my newfound curiosity with building  brands now if making commercials was like a   super viable business for us and it was plentiful  and everything was going great i probably would   not have explored this at all but i started to  see the sign the sign was that agencies were   were acquiring production companies like ours  to bring them in-house so they they can control   costs and control creative i didn't want to  go inside so i'm starting to see oh this is   not going to work out well for us the demand for  what we're doing is going down they're starting to   to just buy talent left and right so now i can't  even compete with them because i want to hire   these freelancers and i can't so i have to become  the agency at this point so it wasn't like there   was a thread to pull it was like i need to figure  out another business model here if i don't figure   this out quick we're going to be out of business  and so i approached it from that so i had a mentor   who showed me what it was like to do one thing and  i was able to apply that thing to the next thing   which is then i have to start doing business  development all over again and and that's   great because today um you know to to kind of to  add those aspects to your business is a little   less uh based on based on look i suppose i mean  uh you know your introduction to jose it was kind   of though again those stars aligning but you  know for anybody that kind of wants to uh to   add on skill sets or add-on services uh to what  they do you know even just looking at the future   like the library of information that's out there  is just it we're we're so lucky in this day and   age than we were even uh you know five six seven  years ago so it's it's it's great to be able to   kind of pick up those skills and kind of add  them on to your business but it we also have   to be careful there as well like uh you know  because it's very easy to just add on this and   add on that and building a brand is a long road  building getting a brand to any kind of success   is a long road and it takes a lot of different  disciplines and a lot of different skill sets   how how far down the road do you take clients and  at what point do you do you say to yourself okay   you know we're still on the brand road to  success but i'm getting outside my sphere   of influence here i'm getting  outside my area of expertise   at what point you let go of their hand and how do  you do that do you let go of their hand completely   or do you have a network of partnerships  where you say okay you need to go over here   or you need to go over there how do you how do  you do that how do you stay in your lane and   pass them off in the right way at the same time  excellent question i i think we all need to have   the wherewithal to recognize what we're good  at and what we're not good at at all and to to   be very clear where those boundaries begin and end  so when we're doing client direct work and they're   helping they're asking us to help them with a  marketing campaign building out a website to   to get customers whatever it is we understand  what the objectives are we we go in we define   that with them we we figure out what's the best  path to get this result that they want and we're   facilitating meetings we're doing strategic  conversations and we're we're mapping things out   and then we go and do the creative production part  the writing the designing the building and testing   and once we're done with that we pretty much  hand over the project to the client at that point   once we've done all the qa stuff quality assurance  and then at that point we kind of wash our hands   so that's the beginning and the end of  the service that we provided to our client   they asked something to be built and and to be  really transparent and honest about this i would   call in and check in with my clients how to how  are we doing do we need to service the site do we   need to do anything different they would say  things like oh like for example this was the   commercial real estate thing oh the building's  leased we have three more projects for you   so i looked at the client's satisfaction with  the work in their desire to give us more work   as a sign that whatever they needed us to do  we've done and i'm ready to keep moving forward   and i'm not in i'm not in that space where we're  asking them did you sell 10 000 t-shirts today   we're we're not at the business management  consultant level we're we're really trying   to build a brand so that to me is the consumer  touch points the the messaging the look and feel   the usability the user experience design those are  the parts that we focused on and if someone was to   come to you and say uh okay and this happens this  happens a lot i know a lot of listeners will kind   of resonate with this if if a client were to come  to you and say look the the website's great um but   you know uh we need to to increase our traffic and  and you know my business partner has been talking   about uh facebook ads and google ads and and uh  you know can you do that for us what would be your   your response if if if that's not your area of  expertise but you want to hold on to the cl you   want to continue to hold the client's hand how  would you how would you do that in an effective   way keeping that relationship going potentially  earning more revenue by holding their hand   how how would you manage that great question  what i would do is i would say there's one of two   things we can do here this falls outside of the  things that i would feel good about saying to you   that we can do so i can refer a couple of people  and you can vet them and you can figure it out or   i can manage the project but i need you to  know that i'll be marking up those fees for   me to manage it because i'm carrying some  risk and it's taking up time for me to do   which do you prefer and more often not when  you're that clear with your clients they're like   we trust you you hire whoever you give us the  price and this is what you're going to learn in   business most business-minded clients only care  about what the bottom line is or the top line   like tell me what it costs i don't really care  how we got there if it's within my budget i just   want you to do it didn't care if i marked it up  two three or five times what it cost me to do it   didn't matter so i would say something like give  me a couple of days to do my homework i owe you   an answer and then from there we can figure it out  so i'm gonna make a bunch of calls i'm gonna get   educated really fast like what do you need to know  from for you to do your job well where how does   this go wrong i'm talking to potential vendors  that i'm gonna work with subcontractors and then   i'm gonna have like this composite knowledge from  talking to three different people you guys send   me your numbers right i get the numbers and i'm  like okay great i want to work with company b   they seem to be the best fit for us the right fit  personality service quality etc and then i go well   how much risk are we taking on by running this  and we need this to make business sense for us   otherwise i'm just going to pass it on so  generally speaking i would just double the   budget yeah that's my general rule of thumb and  and i think you know what you said before is is   really important knowing what um what your area  of expertise is and kind of thinking ahead of   this of course you can again you can learn on your  feet you sometimes you don't ever have to answer a   question until the question is asked but we know  uh the different disciplines within marketing   uh because you know we're we're in the world of  of building brands so we know that there is seo we   know that there's facebook ads google ads content  writing uh content marketing strategies instagram   so if we know that these are the boundaries of  what we do then it's a good idea to understand   uh to possibly make relationships and and and  to get a feel for whether or not i'm prepared to   continue to hold the client's hand and kind of  manage these other areas or to simply let them   go and have those in the independent relationships  and maybe kind of earn some more revenue through   referrals there but i think understanding where  that boundary is and kind of thinking ahead of   that is uh you know it's really beneficial just to  have that clear idea and that focus of what your   area of expertise is so you can kind of stay  confident that this is your lane and you know   we're good at this and and you know you throw your  kind of confidence behind that if if you had to   kind of go back all right you let's say i stripped  you of your your Chris Do title i stripped you   of all of your your networks and and uh and the  future and and all you're left with is your raw   talent nobody knows who you are and you had to  go out and start again from scratch what would   be the first maybe a few things that you would  do maybe two three four things that you would do   to build a successful agency okay can i assume  that i know what kind of business i want to build   yes okay and so we're not gonna i'm not gonna  build an uh like an education company i'm gonna   build like a service studio is that idea yeah so  so an agency whether that's a design agency yeah   okay so the first thing i'm gonna need to do is  i'm gonna have to stand up a website really fast   and i'm gonna just put some really  thought-provoking copy in there   to get people to stand up and notice like this  is a little bit different because i don't want   to use cookie cutter copy and so i would spend  some more money uh sketching out some ideas and   then hiring a really great copywriter to really  make it sound unique in the market space i don't   want to say we're a visual communications  company working with innovative companies   that doesn't make any sense to anybody so that's  generic that's boring there's no personality right   and so i want to start to craft the brand  voice really quickly i want to target a few   people i want to work with i'd probably jump on  linkedin and start following all their content   literally follow them on every social platform  that they have and start to comment on it so that   there is some name and familiarity that i'm trying  to build with them so that eventually when i reach   out to them they're going to be like yeah i kind  of recognize you how do i know you and there's   that effect right yeah something else i'm going  to do is i'm going to get on the social platforms   right now i'll probably get on linkedin instagram  and i'll start making some youtube content as a   form of content marketing and what i want to do is  put in the work to to build authority and the way   that you build authority is you have to articulate  your thinking and doing a combination of a couple   of those things about a month in i think i'm ready  to to do a warm cold outreach to them and say   i'm i'm i'm new in this field i love what you do  i have some ideas on perhaps how you could execute   on x y and z if this warrants a conversation i'd  love to chat with you if i get zero responses from   them i would say something different i would say  like uh what are you doing for lunch next week i'd   love to take you out and pick your brain so that  way you you move away from asking them for work   and asking them for advice and everybody's  got to eat yeah and and this is this is   stuff that's so applicable and so um uh it's so  within the reach of everybody nothing you said   there leans on a skill set that nobody else has  um you know getting a website up i mean most of   us know how to do that if you don't you can easily  find somebody to do that um you know we're not all   killer copywriters but knowing that we need to  have something different and something compelling   we can reach out and get some help there as well  and uh you know it's it's it's really about uh   kind of tapping into the resources that  are available to you and being resourceful   to go out and and get those first few clients  and look there's there's just been there's   been so many little kind of nuggets of  gold throughout this conversation that   um and this is something that i always remember  i remember i remember seeing the future for the   first time i think you guys had like 500 000 uh  followers the first time i saw it and i was like   where have these guys been you know this this is  what was needed like five six seven years ago and   you know so there's there's so much the value that  we can take now and things that we can kind of   implement straight away and it's really just about  being resourceful and and then taking action too   many of us get caught up on uh you know analysis  paralysis of of you know just kind of absorbing   content without really taking action so i think  you know sometimes just the simple things done   are better than than not done at all in terms  of the future uh the future of the future   i've heard you talk about um i've heard you  talk about this utopia place where you just   when you buy this building and it's full of  creatives and everybody collaborates and it just   it it sounds like this it's just this awesome  place to to to be what what's the the future   of the future and what are you working on now  um great question so the future of the future   is where i don't have to worry about money i have  an amazing team that helps me to write content to   author courses and the the teachers that we're  able to onboard are world class because we have   an amazing infrastructure so that we become the  destination for any author or content course   creator to publish their content whoever you  think of is your top publisher in the business   book space we want to be them so harper collins  or maybe for design books you might like penguin   or any any one of those things we want to be the  premier publisher of content like the netflix of   business design education that's where we want to  be because what i want to do is use the money and   the revenue that we generate from that to start to  make what we do more accessible to make it farther   reaching and so that everyone can experience a  hybrid learning environment where some of it's   on online and some of it's done in person and  i think that's where the magic is so i'm not   against brick and mortar systems i just don't want  to be solely reliant on those forms of teaching   because as you know in the last two years it's  been really tough on all of us from a social human   to human interaction connection thing and i think  it's highlighted how much we need that to maintain   a healthy mindset we just need that so the future  is some kind of school you've never been to where   there's an amazing theater and a stage for people  to present production facilities maker space uh   and in place for you to be around other creators  that you just get inspired by just walking into   space and bumping into people rubbing elbows with  folks and being able to huddle around some um   some luminary that's going to speak about  something and then you can just sit there   at the teacher's feet and learn from them  getting back to old school oration and teaching   that excites me so much like you're  tapping into the nostalgia there you've   you've you know you're tapping into all of these  emotional needs that we have now it's brilliant   and it's it's a vision that's uh you know it's  inspiring it's it's you know it's visionary   it's it's great and and you know i i think most  definitely a massive gap has already been filled   and it's being filled by by many different  people in many different places and i think   maybe the future will become kind of a benchmark  for other industries to kind of do their own thing   um and and to kind of uh you know whether it's uh  i don't know just picking other industries out of   thin air like human resources it's probably not a  good example but you know other spaces to kind of   inspire other leaders within those spaces to kind  of go out and and and kind of be the leaders uh   for for those industries so if there's you are  so so in terms of the future obviously there   there are a lot of kind of entry-level products  and stuff like that but you've been working on   um you've been working on some uh some  coaching as well kind of top top tier coaching   tell us a bit about that sure we we have uh i  think products at every price point including free   most of the content that we create is free the  vast majority of it and at the very opposite   end of that is what i would consider everything  i've learned in the last 25 years and running   two different businesses kind of condensed  that into an eight-week cohort it's called   the business boot camp it's not expensive but  relative to the value of what you get i think   it's tremendous it's a five thousand dollar  program and before everyone like runs screaming   for the door just keep in mind that i worked with  the business coach for 13 years i've spent over a   quarter of a million dollars just getting trained  myself and there's there's theory like what you   learn in books which i've done a lot of there's  talking to the masters which i've done as well   and then there's getting one-on-one mentorship  and then the actual application like running a   business trying out an idea and seeing what  works what doesn't work and being in some of   the most demanding environments because i work  in the entertainment capital the world i work in   los angeles and they're just sharks everywhere and  if you don't know how to run a business you don't   have to talk to clients and to present creative  you're not going to survive for very long and what   i've done is put together this program i'm hoping  that people who are at that stage where they   need to scale their business from say a hundred  thousand dollars to 250 000 or into the millions   i think i can help you and if it's a right fit  for someone i do encourage you to check us out   Chris thank you so much for uh for taking the  time on the show as i said before there's i'll   i'll probably watch this episode back myself but  just just gotta take notes on the episode because   there's so much gold in there um you've been doing  such a great service for the industry and you   know i've been loving to see the the growth of the  future and now i've had the privilege to to have a   chat with you and as i said it's been an absolute  absolute pleasure so thank you so much for taking   the time to join us on the show thank you so  much for the pleasure and honors all my thank you

Channel: Brand Master Academy

Views: 23,651

Keywords: how to grow your agency, How to grow your creative agency, How to grow your design agency, How to grow your digital marketing agency, How to grow your freelance business, How to get more clients, How to grow your team, How to grow your revenue, Brand strategy, how to scale you agency, how to get your first 7 figures, strategy to grow an agency, Brand design, Graphic design, Branding, Marketing, Stephen houraghan, Learn brand strategy, Brand master secrets, Brand master academy

Id: Y3S-y-mluZA

Length: 56min 44sec (3404 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 14 2022