every rejection is just a test if you want something ooh every rejection is just a test if you want something 100% And so when she rejected me I was like yeah I want this book there's nothing else out there like it that helps you overcome your fear and helps you get the business actually started and then growing I wrote a blog post for Tim Ferris site in 2011 D old school super old school and it was like how to start a million dollar business in a weekend and it went super viral I've seen that literally so many people holds them back from success in business and in life is the fear of asking if you don't start you'll never get anywhere and if you don't ask you'll never get what you want no ask no yeah bloody hell that's good [ __ ] where most people are and where they can be is actually closer than they think where they are and where they actually want to be is closer than they think who they are and who they think they could be is closer than they think but they have to start what would you mean everyone should be an entrepreneur that's a pretty hot take it is the best investment you can ever make that's part one and part two is it's the best way to learn about yourself and I don't know any other way to get that he I love this I believe money can buy happiness ooh take H take coming it's going to get spicy Noah welcome to Deep dive how you doing excellent fantastic um for people who might not know who you are can you give us a quick Blitz intro who is no Kagan and how did we end up getting to know each other how did we end up here man um grew up in the Bay Area was worked at a cubicle monkey over at Intel and then I kept starting all these businesses and I was number 30 at Facebook so I was very fortunate to work directly for Zuckerberg got fired which is a pretty popular story uh and then I went to help start mint.com I was number four there they sold for 200 million and then I basically tried and failed so many different times starting all these other businesses until 2010 I start apps.com uh number one side online for software deals we basically promote software deals for solopreneurs so people with small businesses uh today we're going to do around $80 million in revenue bootstrapped and then have a YouTube channel uh where I help underdogs it's the people we help to inspire them on their business Journeys and yeah just wrot a book million dollar weekend to help other people have their own business Journeys and success I have so much to talk to you about all right um so we actually did we first I think officially spoke in the pandemic three years ago when you were on a deep dive live stream on my channel and there were like a few hundred to a couple thousand people watching that and we heard all about the Facebook firing story all about the mint.com so I just want to sort of I kind of want to assume people have already seen that because I want to launch straight into some some new stuff that you've been working on how does that sound yeah I mean it's it is interesting because I think we think everyone's heard these stories and then sometimes you're like oh there there's new people in these audiences and it was it was special because I part of you know the million dollar weekend is like connecting with pre fluenc and I remember some on my team I was like there's this guy Ali abdall his Show's like getting started but he seems really interesting and that was Mitchell on our team he sent me over Channel and that's kind of how we started connecting yeah he replied to one of my newsletters he was like it was like Mitchell absum and I was like because I've been following your podcast in like 201 17 18 that kind of era and then I was like oh someone on no kagan's team watch reads my newsletter that's pretty cool that's how we got connected and now we're mates we are mates and I just remember meeting with you and I was just blown away like I was writing down all the things were you were talking about I was like okay I'm going to do that I'm going to like I still use app and I was just like I don't know I was just like this guy's impressed there's something interesting happening with you and is it now like 3 years later almost four years later yeah so we both go interesting places um why is the title of your book million dooll weekend what's going on there the taking a step back uh I wrote a blog post for Tim Ferris site in 2011 damn old school super old school and it was just how I started all these businesses and how other people can copy my formula and it was like how to start a million dollar business in a weekend and it went super viral and then um fast forward today you know the title is just like million dollar weekend anytime we mention to people it's like oh that's good um and so the idea was just like how do you get something started in a very short amount of time blog post worked we validate it and now the title is uh what people people like so broadly kind of people can obviously read the book and they should read the book to zoom in and find out all the details but what's what's the big picture here how how would I start a million dollar business in a weekend clearly have to do it would be in a hotel room like we're now exactly yeah I mean I think what's interesting is that there's so many there's so much content about how to start a business yeah Tik Tok social media blogs books like if there's so much out there how come people have not done it that want to do it that's the question and so 15 years ago I had a dream to write this book I was with my buddy Adam Gilbert from my body tutor and we're bikeing New York and I was like there's just no book out there that if I wanted to get started without taking funding without spending a lot of time without spending any money there's nothing out there and so I wanted to be able to put that together and solve the actual hard problem which is why aren't people being successful yeah and there's basically just two fears why most of the audiences that want to start a business which I think everyone should be an entrepreneur have not done it yet and then the business part is the other half of the book which is like how do you validate your idea how do you check the market size how do you check your one minute business model that part I find a lot easier it's just the fears that are holding people back from their success o okay this is interesting because I also encounter this problem a lot when I speak to people who want to start a YouTube channel or want to start a business and I'm often surprised by how much of the conversation is like therapy SL emotional support rather than like okay let's figure out the target market and the competitive analysis and all that stuff yeah what are the fears you you said there were two big fears yeah and so in terms of the business and we can definitely dive into like checking your business model checking the market size finding your first customers and then how do you scale that stuff to think let's start with the emotional stuff we'll come back to that back to this stuff is and this stuff no one recognizes how how afraid they actually are uh of this they won't admit it because they don't realize it they don't even recognize it but the two ones and they're gigantic once you overcome them and there's fun ways to actually overcome it and a lot people in the book have done it then all the other business is easy so the first one is the fear of starting yeah and so the idea that we need more money I need to watch more videos I need to take another course I need to find out more things to then feel ready and there's never a ready the right the ready time is right now just like you talk actually in feel good productivity it's like get going get get your confidence through your action and then the second fear that I have uh you see a lot on my YouTube channel but I've I've seen that literally so many people holds them back from success in business and in life life is the fear of asking oh it's the fear of asking and so if you don't start you'll never get anywhere and if you don't ask you'll never get what you want no ask no get you have to go figure out how do I practice asking because it's a skill and it's a skill I I've seen as a kid it's a skill I've practiced at you know through all the millions of dollars we've done throughout suumo through all the businesses I've been a part of and so how to do it in fun ways so that when you get to the business stuff you're like yeah I'm a starter I'm a starter I do things right now not how that's like one of the big takeaways in the book and moving yeah moving into asking so you can do challenges and things like that to make it fun so as you get into the business you're like all right I'm going to you know we can talk about different businesses that have been started from the book uh it makes it starting the business a lot easier one of the things that I remember talking about when we were doing a live stream three years ago you said something about asking for discounts at Starbucks or something and I remember saying I'm literally sweating even just thinking about that and after we had that conversation I was I think I was still working at the time and there was a Starbucks on the way home on on on the way to work and I would I would always say to myself you you know today's the day I'm going to follow Noah's advice which I think Tim Ferris also talks about this at some point yeah and I i' I've literally never done it before I I still to this day have not done it you didn't do it no I I kept on chickening out I'd go up to the counter I'd be like and then and then the fear the fear of asking would get in the way what what do you think you're afraid of I don't know um rejection uh I'm afraid of like I I can I can tell myself that like oh you know it's it's I don't want to put them in an awkward position because it's like you know this poor Barista he's only getting paid $5 an hour whatever the thing might be I don't want him to feel awkward but really I think I'm just afraid of afraid of the rejection and afraid of coming across as an inconvenience as a nuisance and stuff yeah does that Vibe with what people told you that's that's why people have not had success in business yet because they can't get comfortable asking getting rejected realizing it's okay maybe it was the offer maybe it's not the right person and then moving forward to find someone you can help and most of the time it's actually switching the context so what you're thinking is it's a bad thing to ask but what if you ask for a sponsor for your show from notion and you help them promote you're just asking them for something that's actually a good thing for them and the more that you can actually switch that mentality you're like oh [ __ ] I could start asking for a lot of different things maybe a raise maybe a customer maybe I ask a girlfriend you know there's all these other things you can start asking for and the reason I love the coffee challenge is that it's a safe way to practice asking they say no to you when you ask for so when you go to a coffee place or anywhere you go next time I did it at the hotel room this uh about an hour ago got to the hotel friend desk I said can I have an upgrade please for free and he looks at me like what are you doing I was like yeah he's like no it costs money I like okay thanks right it's it's I'm still doing it to this day and it's doing it in these small ways you do it in business but when you go and ask for the discount it's just recognizing that once they say no life goes forward and you can learn you can get better and you get stronger will you will you commit to doing it mate I'm I'm feeling I'm feeling the shaking I'm like tearing up even just thinking like hearing you he hearing you say this like what you're saying is like touching a partt of me that has this like primal fear of like rejection I think fear of rejection fear of failure all of those things we're all afraid of it it doesn't go away I'm still afraid and if you look at my videos it's like asking private jets knocking on people's doors doing it on the streets and I'm still afraid one of the ways that may be helpful for you to think about it is doing like rejection goals so just changing the again into a game so instead of making it this big ego hit cuz like yeah I'm still afraid I have anxiety doing these rejections and like going and doing it but I'm like all right I'm going to go and get rejected 10 times on the street or I'm going to try to go and talk to like two people and then you do it and it's like okay I hit my goal it's fine and guess what throughout that you might actually get a yes throughout that you might get a discount throughout that you might get a customer and so again take coming back to it's like how do I get how do I practice starting and then if I can get better at asking now let me start moving forward on these different business ideas whether it's creating content maybe it's a service maybe it's e-commerce whatever that is bloody hell that's good [ __ ] I think one of the one of the big areas in which I struggled and to this day still do is uh sales because before just before launching my course 3 years ago the YouTuber Academy I had this real fear of selling thing I was no I can't I can't be seen to be selling something cuz selling is bad like I guess that's another thing you you've dealt with how do how how how do people think about selling being bad and like how might we think about it instead yeah I so with aba.com we have to go to a partner and say we're going to promote your product for free and we'll split the money with you I think of selling is helping you you have an association that selling is a bad experience I'm thinking like if I'm going to and I say hey you have a product I can put you on appsumo I'm like wow I'm actually doing you a favor because I believe it's good for you now when you're doing selling I think there's there's a simple format called lot it's listen options transition and this is just a nice way that when you're talking to someone you could sell so we'll do a practice thing sure if you're what if something you sold your course yeah like all YouTube of course so first listen to your customer uh are you interested in grow YouTube yeah how come you're interested in grow YouTube oh cuz I've seen channels like Al ABD I know K can succeed and I know it's the thing that could change my life and yeah I just like the idea of doing it and then if I if you were to get my course like what would you hope to get out of it um I know that you've kind of grown on YouTube a lot over the last few years and I'd be hoping to learning some I'd be hoping to learn what are what's the secret Source here like what do you know that other people don't and then what what would be an outcome so like if you were able to take my course what would be success for you and why would that matter to you oh um I mean if I could get to the point where I'm making enough money to quit my day job then that would be amazing for my life nice and and how much money would you want to quit your day job oh I think if I was making like 3K a month I'd be able to quit my day job we'll talk about the freedom number by the way that's a a separate thing uh that's been critical in shifting people's lives to be able to get their own million dollar weekend so if I hear you right it sounds like if you want help on YouTube and what's been holding you back from success on YouTube I I honestly I really struggle with consistency and I make a video uh and then I have all these perfectionistic Tendencies and I don't want to release it and I feel this ick every time I see the video and I'm like it's not quite it's not quite right it's not quite perfect got and that means I only released three videos even though I want been wanting to start YouTube for 5 is yeah so you've been talking about it and this is something that maybe you can do it in in a month or in this week and change your life so it sounds like if I hear you right you want to work on consistency and you want to be able to make $3,000 a month so if there's a course that can help you accomplish those things and it was only $500 how does that sound to you I mean that sounds pretty good but like I want to know I mean surely the course can't guarantee that I'm going to get to that goal right yeah so if you pay today I will guarantee within 6 months you will get your $3,000 and you will be consistent and if not I'll give you your money back oh is that something you want to sign up for right now yeah 100% sign me up okay interesting so as if we take a step back in like break down the scenarios what I'm trying to really do is listen the option that I think is solving so when I'm listening I'm trying to get what's what's Ali's real problem yeah and then I also want to understand what it's worth to you right your freedom number which is a number that I believe everyone needs to figure out is what's the number you need to be able to do your own business the to be able to quit your job mine was $3,000 so I'm trying to understand your your your pain of it I'm trying to understand the like what's held you back the value to it and then options like okay so I understand your pain here's the option that will solve it does that solve it you're like yeah then I'm transition I'd like to get your money today in a way that will get you the result because I'm solving the problem that you have okay and then what people will do here's what this is the this is the the big like red flag timeout yeah yeah send me more info oh yeah yeah you know why don't you um I'll sign up when the when the course is ready yeah yeah I'll do that and so that's a rejection and the more that we M came back practicing rejection you're like okay so tell me what would make this a no-brainer for you today can you educ I just love this is one of my favorite lines I love to learn can you just tell me why you're not signing up today oh I'm not signing up because I don't have the money right now I have this amount of money okay so if we had a payment plan where you could do $10 a month and every month you're able to pay it off does that does that work for you or only pay if you pay half now and half on success so it's more how are you trying to understand the person to be able to transition them to success for themselves and a lot of times not selling is powerful like hey I don't think this is right for you I don't think I can help you that's just as powerful as making the sale okay so kind of reframing the way we think of selling rather than being a a bad thing that I am making an ask or like making an offer instead of it being a bad thing is being like thinking of it in terms of I've got the option of helping this person out it's a great you're helping you're helping I think it's awesome like I truly like million dollar weekend my YouTube channel apps.com I'm like if you have a software company and you want customers I I truly believe it's my job to tell you about atsuma and if you don't if it's not ref you that's okay but for someone who wants promotion like let me understand what your needs are and if it aligns with what I can do yeah I'm going to transition them to the next steps of a sale what are some other areas of life in which you have done or people that you know have done the asking thing and it's led to interesting outcomes yeah I mean you look at some of my YouTube videos specifically uh I said it's at a private airport and I asked people if I could get on the private Jet and I got basically like $100,000 flight to Boston that was a pretty good ask that cool yeah you know and that what crazy about that was that I only stood out there for about 10 minutes yeah I didn't like have anything flashy it was just it's accessible for everyone I think this is there's a misconception that like oh because they have something or they did no I just stood outside with a piece of paper normal clothes on and just ask people like hey can I come see your plane I love to see your plane and the reality is that when you start asking for things you realize that people are actually a lot friendlier than you think too yeah so a guy named Jake who read million dollar weekend he's he exactly what you said actually he's been wanting to start his own business for two years 24 months he's done nothing which is 99% of people yeah right it's the same thing with productivity like they want to do something they want to do something but they don't do it and so I was like Jake let's do something now not how let's just make sure we're going today let's just do it right now let's call someone with your business idea I won't won't put it out with his business idea around golf trips I'll leave it at that let's call someone right now and see if they'll buy your your golf trip and he's you know it's like he's like oh [ __ ] really I'm like yeah let's do it right now and he was shocked how friendly someone was and how excited they were to give him money I know but we have this fear like I'm bugging them I'm harassing them and Jake was that belief in him of what he's trying to offer was so exciting for these other people and I have the same thing when I'm I did another video where I asked first class passengers yeah that was good it's very uncomfortable because if you say no to me you're sitting next to me for the next 8 hours which most of the people said no yeah but we create the script in our head when we're doing things that this about the other person that's just not true because a lot of people I did talk to were actually excited and happy to chat with me like there was an optometrist there was a yoga teacher there's just a lot of different people that actually were happy to share how they got to first class and how others can do the same and that was just cuz asking that was just because of an ask it wasn't anything that the where most people are and where they can be is actually closer than they think where they are and where they actually want to be is closer than they think who they are and who they think they could be is closer than they think but they have to start you can't sit back you can't watch more you can't there's no more to learn a lot of times it's about getting going so you can get to that place so we've talked about talked about fear of asking um can you tell me more about this fear of starting like if with asking like I I Feel the fear of asking I don't think I feel the fear of starting but I'm I'm I'm sure I I I know when it comes to YouTube loads of people have that fear of starting yeah what's it like in in the business thing like what stories are people telling telling themselves most people tell themselves they're not ready okay they say they need they don't have the right business idea have you ever talked to people like oh yeah you you have your YouTube account how many people say I don't have anything to talk about on YouTube yeah like 80% of them most of the people yeah if they just started the YouTube channel today right now like if their dream is to be a YouTuber like like we are or maybe have an e-commerce business or maybe it's a service business or maybe whatever it is it and it doesn't have to be a millionaire it could be a grocery nare to make grocery money it could be to make $100 so you can have a nice meal once a month the whole opportunity is just getting going and so what are ways that people can just get going and stop being sideliners is what I call them so one way to get going is your freedom number your freedom number is what you said which what what is your what was your number where you felt comfortable quitting your your medical job I F I felt comfortable taking a break when that number was like 10K a month yeah I I felt comfortable quitting when that number was 100K that that's that's another episode That's The Following episode but thinking about okay it's actually probably a lot smaller of a number to be able to quit my job and have freedom than I realize yeah I I realized like a lot of the thing like in in reality if I had a job that I didn't like and I was able to make I don't know 2 or 3K a month to pay my expenses in my rent and stuff yeah that would be the perfect the perfect number to be like you know what screw this I'm going to do my own thing yeah I mean it seemed risky to me to have a day job it seemed not risky to start my own business and everyone should be an entrepreneur because being having money and the ability to work in hotel rooms or stay at home with your kid which I'm looking forward to doing I want that opportunity and that's available for everyone it's not exclusive but you have to get started yeah what do what do you mean everyone should be an entrepreneur that's a pretty hot take I think everyone should be an entrepreneur being rich is great I don't know if that's a hot take anymore I don't know if you're allowed to say people should be rich or not rich but I've been poor for a long time and I've lived poor for a long time and the reality that everyone it's accessible to everyone to be rich and being anre is the best return on getting rich Let's Take just like Zoom back for a second what's the great stock market return annually the 8% whoa okay real estate 10% 7 15% and you have to put money down and all this stuff yeah uh T bills or interest bills 5% what else government bonds yeah government bonds I don't know what you guys have in the UK 7% previously 0% yeah okay entrepreneurship unlimited yeah not not even saying books I'm saying if you start your own business there's literally no upside to what you can create yeah it is the best investment you can ever make is starting your own business and that's part one and part two is it's the best way to learn about yourself learning how to start and being overcoming some of the fear you have like what happens when my friends say no to my business what happens that I I start it doesn't work but I keep going and I find that I have courage and I can do these things exactly and you start realizing like and I've learned more than through business by myself than anything else and you realize like I have a lot more capable and a lot more able to do things than I realized and I don't know any other way to get that that I've seen as effective as one as a return on investment but secondly just as a return on yourself what about people who say you know there there'll be some people listening to this and think screw this guy like not everyone should be an entrepreneur what if I like my day job and I don't want to deal with the stress of being an entrepreneur and I just want to go home go to work collect the paycheck and come home and then spend time with my family yeah I think they can do that and be an entrepreneur okay and to be an entrepreneur it does I think where there's a misconception is to become a milli millionaire you have to make a dollar and that's where people get hung up to become a millionaire you have to start with making1 and Everyone by the way can right now on their phone message someone to get a dollar just right now right now right now they can message someone but to start you have to get to become a millionaire which is what people like oh I want to be a millionaire no just get a dollar and get going and that's how you become a millionaire a multi-millionaire or billionaire now to be an entrepreneur I think where're people have the misconception is well I need to make a lot of money to be an entrepreneur I need to make a millions or no you can make a hundred bucks a month m doing cookies like there's a woman Jennifer who's R million dollar weekend out in Dallas she's a school teacher and she's like I just want to make a few extra dollars a month for my family and so the ability to have creative control the ability to to create things with your hobbies and your free time I think that's what people all should be doing and if they don't like it fine you don't have to but I think one you got have a lot of upside with the money if that's what you want as well I think you're going to learn more doing that than anything else oh interesting okay so you're defining how how are you defining entrepreneur then how do you define productivity I productivity in a very holistic way almost too holistic some some might say I think Entre in the simplest form yeah H I believe it's just it's someone who creates yeah someone who creates so that doesn't mean it has to be making so much money I think that's a big misconception of the more mentality we live in yeah like how many subscribers you want more how much money you want more how much food you want more it's like no I want a little bit and I'm okay with that and that's amazing a power of Entrepreneurship that that's accessible to anyone anywhere especially now now it's easier than ever to start a business so would do you say like you know back back when I was in school I was freelancing as a web developer yeah on the side does that count as entrepreneurship or is that like a different kind of thing is that not what we're talking about here that's exactly what we're talking about okay I think it's expressing yourself finding out who you are through business that's nice I like that yeah it's great I mean and it's accessible to anyone and it doesn't have to be there's not a set way of doing it like on my YouTube channel there's a guy Larry janeski he does $600 million a year with basements Bas I don't I've barely ever been in a basement I don't know if you guys have them in the UK but in California we don't or there was a woman Pam uh we knocked on her door just knocked on her door she's doing strawberries strawberries and now wine that's how they got rich and it doesn't mean you have to get rich even though being rich is great and I would encourage everyone to do it I really do yeah but just finding some activity and hobby that you're really interested in for yourself that gives you something creatively as well as an upside that's that's unlimited okay so it sounds like you're saying that like even if someone has a day job then they can learn a lot about themselves and they can get some extra pocket money by doing something on the side whether it's baking cookies selling strawberry selling wine or starting a YouTube channel doing web development and eventually the people who get going are the ones who then have the the option of taking forward if they want have you ever been fired have I ever been fired no I've never been fired what's it like that was good that was good that was good that was good um you realize that everyone is replacing able and you don't have as much control on your life as you think and especially today where interest rates are high there might be coming down mortgage rat all over the place companies are back are cutting back I think now more than ever people need to figure out for themselves how to at least have that option available to them whether you work at atsuma we have a lot of people with their own business at appsumo we encourage it but in other companies like if you have a day job that you like like they could still get rid of you at any moment any moment yeah there's no obligation to them and so having your own option that you've created that you have one it's fun at least gives you that option so that if things don't go your way you're in control of something nice M I love this I'm fully fully on board with with with with what you're saying I think in the past I've been hesitant to say everyone should become an entrepreneur because I've always got the thing of like well what if I enjoy my job and and all this kind of stuff and I've always said that like well okay but wouldn't it be nice you know a lots of people in the pandemic lost their lost their jobs yeah and wouldn't it be nice to just not be so reliant on a single employer because when you have a job you're ring on a single person to pay your paycheck and to support your family and that person is not you that person is your boss or your boss's boss or the HR person or the person doing the company and you never know what might happen um and so I've always been very bullish on people learning skills on the side and then trying to find a way to monetize those skills yeah man you just learn so much about yourself you learn so much it's fun it's fun I mean if you the difference in in in what I believe million dollar weekend process is it should be fun and I talked to to someone who read the book and and I asked him like what about a million doll weekend what is it that you wanted like I didn't want to live a wh if life I didn't want to leave I didn't want to live a wh if life I wanted to know that I have dreams that I of how I want to spend my day which is with his kids yeah and I didn't want to not be able to take that chance now and show and lead by example showing the kids how he is so that he has that opportunity one day in the future but you'll never get there unless you start yeah and then sticking with it which is law of 100 which is like doing these things and sticking with these things what do you mean what's low of 100 so you've started YouTube you've started a business most people quit too soon yeah you've seen it all the time I see it all the time and so as we start these things and we make a little bit of money yeah how do I stick with it so love 100 is how do you apply to 100 days or 100 videos or 100 emails or 100 calls whatever it is for me it was podcasts I quit too soon and I had I was basically getting tons of downloads per episode but because it wasn't it was 30,000 downloads and it wasn't 100,000 downloads I quit at around 40 down uh 40 podcasts if I would have just stay and so I've noticed this trend where the people who are most successful started and they need some framework to stick with it so for me it was this law of 100 to actually be able to stick with YouTube now three years and then continuing I'm now on a 10year plan for YouTube and so just finding that people need a framework to be able as they start something now okay let's call One customer day don't make it a big thing just first if you have a day job and you got kids and you got a family that's a lot going on one call a day one social post a day one email a day whatever it is just pick a hundred of them and then stick with it this episode of Deep dive is very kindly sponsored by by hostinger now if you're looking to start a business or develop some kind of brand then you're probably going to need a website and if you've ever wanted to set up a website but you're not sure where to start then hostinger has everything you need hostinger is a top Global website hosting service with servers all around the world it's fast and it's reliable and it's got over 2 million users and it's 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30-day trial of snipped and then you can try it out for the entire 30 days and you can take all these notes and you can see if it Vibes with you so thank you so much snipp for sponsoring this episode when I started YouTube in 2017 I told myself my first 100 videos are going to be crap so I'm just G to get through the first 100 videos and then I'll reassess and how'd that go make video number 52 I hit 1,000 subscribers video number 82 went viral and video number 82 took me to like 10,000 video number 93 went viral took me to 50,000 and by the time I got to 100 videos I was on like I don't know 50 58,000 subscribers and I had no idea that that that's what was going to happen I just knew that I've got I'm G to do at least 100 videos yeah I I think where where most people are are finding their mistakes is is that they're not starting it yeah like my first YouTube video uh you can go on the channel and see it it's me shirtless which is not impressive I'll tell you that it was just me shirtless in my room yeah doing this with the same phone that everyone else has I just posted it very little and I got a little bit of response got 300 views and it was like oh I like doing this and so it doesn't mean you should just do things you hate and stick with it forever but find something you enjoy and so that I did that and then I was like oh this is kind of fun and people like it and so my point for everyone is it's accessible you don't need thousands of dollars a camera or fancy microphones or lighting you just need your phone and getting going and then sticking with it now you know the L I just bought like a this A7 S3 is a $3,000 camera you have lenses these mics are hundreds of dollars and that but that's over time right same as your content but you got started stuck with it and as you stick with it it keeps improving the first Vlog that I made I I was watching Casey neistat's Vlogs and Peter McKinnon's Vlogs in 2017 I was in Cambodia on my medical elective where I was doing like this plastic surgery type stuff and I remember thinking I should start a vlog and I remember thinking I need to do it right now otherwise it's not going to happen so I took out my phone I lay on the bed and I said guys I'm starting a vlog and I the video is still on the Channel people watch it people comment on it to this day that is awesome where I'm like I know I I knew that if I you know I had to just get started like this I I had a camera but I was like if I wait to set up the camera it's just not I I need to take action as soon as I have the inspiration and that video is on the channel and that was the start of my Vlog which was the start of my YouTube channel being something about something other than how to get into medical school which you know now I have seen your day in the life few years ago Vlog where you had medical school walking around with your camera I was like this pretty good video but we've had we do um a lot of beta testing with the book yeah and so we've had we have 1,200 people in our beta team and every weekend I go uh with five people to the book and then we survey and we survey okay what's what's your biggest takeaway of the book and EV by far the number one thing is the now not how a mindset and it's this mindset of how do I just do this thing right now you want to post a video great you want to sell someone great you're interested in maybe selling cookies even post it on social media right now now not how just message your mom message your cousin message whoever some maybe it's a colleague whatever it is and you start realizing you can apply this in kind of small ways like I don't want to take out the trash well what's now not how just go and take your trash out right now that's obviously like a silly way yeah but then you start thinking in in wanting to start a business or wanting to start a Content Channel okay I have to I want to put a video but I don't know I'm talk just talk about anything doesn't even matter just get it out yeah this is exactly what we saying our um YouTuber foundations course which is a course for complete beginners getting started with YouTube yeah and like the third or so lesson in that is me being like okay you're you're not going to take out your phone you're going to hit record and you're going to talk to it and say why you're starting a YouTube channel and you're going to up on the YouTube app that's on your phone and you and you're just going to do that right now and so many people their first YouTube video has been just that one where they're like yeah I'm making and they always title it Ali abdal made me do this or some [ __ ] Al like hi I'm taking Al abd's course he made me do this I've been wanting to start a YouTube channel for 10 years and I haven't done it but finally I'm going to take action and I'm I'm doing the thing and just reducing the friction lowering the bar and just making it happen I guess two questions for you one what would you tell yourself when you were first starting now to kind of be like the now not how and then how just Frank how grateful are you that you got started mate I think I I didn't have the terminology for that but I'd been absorbing the Tim Ferris personal development world so long that I knew that like because I wanted to be a YouTuber since like 2010 and it took me until 2016 to make one video and then until 2017 to actually start actually commit to the decision of making YouTube videos because I was thinking I want to be a music YouTuber and every summer like I had these friends who were good at singing and I was like I want to learn the piano and the guitar and we were like like no but we we haven't got the right equipment this was like three phones but actually my brother had a camera we could have just filmed with that it could it would have been so easy but I was like No And I I need to have the perfect microphone I need to have the perfect setup and obviously I can't I can't do any of this until I have the perfect setup and I waited seven years to start make to make my first YouTube video and in that in that time I absorbed a lot of this personal development stuff and I realized this is a dumbass attitude let me just make bloody video and I am so immensely grateful every single good thing has happened in my life as a result of starting the YouTube channel seven years ago it's insane yeah like half the friends I've got now are friends I've made through the internet probably more than half my relationship I got in through the internet in a roundabout way all the money that I've ever made has been through the inter it's just [ __ ] incredible like how much that one decision to start has just changed the trajectory of my life and that's what's holding people back and then you know you have ideas you validate and then you grow it if you can just get past yourself then getting the business stuff is easy but it's getting that stuff going I think there's also this other comment of how can like I'm so grateful I want to thank my 13 year 13 years ago self you're thanking your seven years ago self I think for everyone out there like what five years from today self are you gonna thank for what you're doing right now what are you GNA thank yourself today in five years you're like oh I'm so glad okay I just finally started the thing I've been talking to my friends about I've been thinking about I finally just got going and in five years they be like like even now I'm so grateful 13 years ago I just got going with absum yeah so lucky so grateful that I started it and stuck with it yeah this thing I I really like this framework of like what would you be grateful for for yourself now five years from now um I I used it uh a few years ago I I I I had this like hole in my teeth and my smile wasn't very nice and I was it was a decision to get Invisalign okay and it's it was a process that was going to take two years and I kept on putting it off because I was like oh no but like they say you can't drink coffee and I was working at the time and then the pandemic hit and I was like you know what now I have no excuses now I need to get invis years later my teeth and now I look at my old videos I'm like similarly I started taking some meds for my hair loss like in like 2019 when I had almost no hair and I was like two years from now I'm going to be grateful for this decision and that was the thing that got me to take those meds and so I think this this idea of now not how applies in like so many areas of life this thing of what can you start today that your future self would be grateful for 100% whether it's taking care of your health or like calling your mom more often or like starting that business or starting that channel whatever the thing might be I think we're we were surprised about it's not as hard as we thought yeah like oh if I finally you know all these people are going to say this all these voices that we have in our head which everyone has like you still have it I still we all have it but you get going and then you actually realize through action you get confidence through practice you get confidence and you kind of keep practicing you keep going you're like huh I actually can do these things but that it's by getting into the game into the arena starting that you can then get to these other places yeah I I really like an the the idea that confidence is domain specific like you can have a CEO who's super super confident in the boardroom but who's really unconfident when he goes to a nightclub because he hasn't put in the Reps it's a domain specific you can get someone who's like incredible on stage but sucks talking to a a camera when making a YouTube video because confidence is domain specific and that means if you're not if you're not confident at something that's okay you just haven't put in the Reps yet so you can just get started and start putting in the Reps and you can think about something you are confident with and think were you born confident that thing or did you just practice quite a lot and usually it's like I practice quite a lot to become confident the thing I that's a great point yeah mate some good stuff um I want to talk to you a little bit about the again it's it's feels like a bit of a hot take to be like being being rich is great because I think the narrative that we're told and and you know I I speak to a bunch of people who are very rich and they're always like yeah but like Beyond a certain point money doesn't really buy more happiness and you know all that kind of stuff often the people I speak to are like high-flying entrepreneurs who have sacrificed their health and their relationships for the sake of making more money yeah so how do you think about money and the acquisition of of more wealth I believe no it's get spicy I believe money can buy happiness okay I agree just tell me more so my taking a step back I I do believe a lot of people when they're born in a certain class economically and this is what I believe are believing that they have to stay there I grew up middle class so I stay middle class that's how I felt I felt my parents had normal jobs my dad was an engineer and my mom was a nurse and I was like I guess that's just where you stay and realizing there's all these levels to life and realizing you can do any kind of life you want there's no there's no rule to how you live it's how you ever want it I remember as I'm dating this Venezuelan woman and she's in Spain and I kept thinking I I don't know but that's not part of like the normal plan I had this buddy tinan who you know I love tinan he's like you make the rule you create it and money which is available to everyone sometimes it's harder depending on how you were born and how were certain situations but it's available and you can create it and I just lived so middle class and poor uh basically until Co I was a multi multi- multimillionaire and then when Co happened I was just realizing like holy [ __ ] like I have all this money and I've worked so hard to get it I'm just not enjoying it and I started uh testing it so one of the things about being an entrepreneur is that we make it so scary we're like oh it's oh my God it's this big ass thing you have to quit your J job don't quit your J job that's risky yeah having a j job you hate that's also risky yeah but start testing things out and so I started experimenting enjoying money I started experimenting like can I buy happiness with money because I was told that you can't like that's what they say and I was like let me let me question this thing and um I started renting like I rented a Malibu beach house for 25k and I was like oh yeah money can definitely buy happiness okay then I rented another house in Austin on the lake that was 7,000 it was everything was Cheaper by the way during Co and you know if you want million-dollar experiences you could I rented a Lambo here in LA uh a few years ago during that that experience for $250 on turo oh it was great that's not bad and I was like I don't give two shits to have a Lambo yeah you tested it out and realized you didn't want it I didn't yeah I experimented and I think if you can think of how how do I have an experiment or mindset in these different areas of life huh maybe I can experiment being rich see if I actually like being rich maybe I can experiment having a six-pack which everyone has and see if you actually won I've had a sixpack I'm like it sucks I like drinking and eating I don't want to live that life and actually enjoying the money now I'm like this is so great not worrying about which groceries I have to buy yeah going to a store and it's it's crazy CU right now it's a scary hard time for a lot of people like you go to the grocery store you're like you want to buy these things you're like I don't know if I can get all that you want to fly somewhere I was talking to someone recently they're like yeah it's expensive to get flights I was like oh really and I don't mean that as an arrogant thing or that I'm totally disconnected from reality but the idea of starting your own business being an entrepreneur having money and you have these choices that you can do anything you want and if you want to work all day great or for me as I'm having a family I now have the ability to spend money to have a lot of my free time like I can be everyone can be a time millionaire and money makes that a lot easier and so I can have staff which I don't want to have staff do everything for my child but I can have do some things so I can do some hard parts and then enjoy the other parts that I want so taking a step back at least create your own business so you have this option and if you're like I hate all these money things and you did the experiment and you don't want to do it fine give the money away or just go do whatever thing you want to do but I have found like I I can do just so many different cool things for myself that it's accessible to everyone like I can have two two bikes that are very expensive here and in Spain so I don't have to worry about which bike I'm riding yeah and it's just so great I'm so much happier having money and it is you know Chris Williamson I think you know Chris he had this thing it's it's a bias right because I have money now but I remember having no money and I was sleeping on floors for a year I was sleeping on my parents couch last night and it brought back memories of it of just working so hard and not enjoying it I was just on there's a guy pach and then I was living on uh shyan's her couch and it was just like these really tough times and I was making okay money and it was it's like wow having money so that I can hire coaches hire having money so I can hire therapists and feel better about myself and all these things that open up to me is just what everyone should do and it's again I have to say it's available it's not some exclusive Club yeah so many people get rich from doing stands from bottle caps it's not only making a YouTube channel or doing e Commerce you can do a restaurant you can do a lot of different things it's just finding the thing you actually enjoy yeah I think when it comes to this money thing a lot of times and as as I'm saying this I think I think I do this to myself even now which is I think people tell themselves a story that they feel becoming rich is or let's say I don't know even getting an extra 5K a month that to them feels unattainable and therefore they tell themselves I don't want it anyway why is people if you just gave people 60k an extra 60k for the year like a raise they'd be over the moon if the boss just gave them a 60k raise but if you say would you like to build a business on the side that that makes you 5K a month and if they think it's un unachievable they'll say oh I don't want that anyway oh people oh who who needs money money like you know money doesn't buy happiness and like the real things in life are you you know relationships and health and that is also true to an extent yeah like I don't think I'm am that much happier as it were right now than I was when I had a lot less money I'm happier in the sense that I'm not doing my day job which was the thing that was bringing me unhappiness and so money allowed me to have that option and I'm quite a risk ofers guy so I needed to I literally needed a million in the bank to feel comfortable quitting my 40K day job uh to feel like you know that was a you know a risk worth taking but I think there's this story that a lot of us have and even even now like you know we'll do I don't know 5 million Revenue this year with like 60% margins and Sam par from my first million was challenging me this morning he was like what what do you really want like what's your goal for growing the business and was like uh I don't really have one I just want to make content and like teach and stuff and I think that's true to an extent but I I always wonder am I just am I afraid of trying to go for 10 million Revenue am I afraid of trying to go for like the bigger numbers yeah or is there something like I I also think there's something to the fact that I love what I'm doing and I don't want to I don't want to do not fun things for the sake of more money does does any of that make sense like yeah yeah how do you square those things a few different things so part one is once you have your Freedom number which yours was $10,000 mine was $3,000 and everyone should figure out what's your freedom number do something you actually enjoy to get that freedom number yeah and if it's cookies for me it was promoting stuff I love promoting that's what ABS was and then it was like all right I'm going to do this thing and enjoy it and then it turns out it can actually make millions of dollars which we go through a million dollar weekend which is like all right what's your Market yeah making sure you the right Market making sure you have the right business model so you can actually using your freedom and do the things you enjoy now in terms of your second question I think that that's actually a problem it's the Valley Tech Bros which I I come from but I left I went to the Midwest and now Europe I SP a lot of time in Spain it's the problem is that they're just having more for more sake and they have not realized like when is it enough like this year uh absum did around $7 million in profit which is insane it's insane like I was happy with 36,000 a year yeah and that's profit and I'll just be super canid I can take all of it yeah I can just take that money and just like put in my bank doesn't like there's some amount at a few million dollars where it's enough for me so let me give it to the team which we did let's take everyone to Mexico which we did let's go invest in servers let's go invest in ads let me give it to my business partner and it's recognizing and when it's enough for what how you actually want to live and that's the power right you you talk to certain people I think that's what they think they're supposed to be selling telling you yeah oh you're supposed to grow super fast and you know what it's like I actually want to spend if I can spend my whole day making sure I'm good parent and a good partner and do my work like that to me is ideal I'm not willing to sacrifice that just to make more money for more sake like we we had a board meeting and I love our board members because they challenge me it's like Andrew Chen who's awesome rajer T smer from indeed we got Moody from glasto and zapier he's amazing and they're like you're not growing fast enough and I'm like we're actually trying to grow slower we're trying to grow slower for longer and it's just and all that is is coming back into yourself but what I've noticed for me and I think for everyone out there set less less ambitious goals that's I talk about in book set less ambitious goals is what you talk about in your book and if that you can sustain you set in your book LeBron James is the slowest Walker one of them in the NBA and he is literally you know what 20 years in the NBA and so with appsumo the I love our board members and we and there's things to take away from how they challenge us and everyone should get a board or Elite advisers which we can talk about but we're going to grow at 7% next year that's our goal and people are like 7% like yeah that's like you're going to go you're going to go to sleep like you're going to even try but what we have noticed is that I I don't want to sell I don't want to go public cuz I like I like what I get to do I don't have to have a job yeah and by having less ambitious goals we can have more freedom we're not stressing to make money and that leads us to more creativity which then ultimately leads to a more successful business from a money and frankly enjoyment perspective and yeah that has been a counterintuitive thing that I've learned over the years of running different companies where I used to set like if we're not 10 Xing this year then we failed which is what our advisor say and so I do think there's ways of doing that which is doing it in smaller segments but again coming back to how you actually want to live your life and operate your business and yes make a million a year two million a year it's way more than enough for almost everyone but at least get to that point that you can have that option but then I think if you have to try to go super fast H okay uh it's way it's unnecessary it's not necessarily what you want so it sounds like you also agree that at some point there is diminishing returns to more cap to more money 100% it's just that the study from 20 years ago might say it's 70k but you and I probably say in in the range or something yeah and everyone who's like I want to be a billionaire [ __ ] like who cares to be a billionaire like what are you GNA do you want to donate all go donate all yeah like oh if I help a million people it's like do you really want to help a million why I help one and start right now to help one what I've recognized though is that 70,000 today people who make 100,000 I feel are are poor and I don't mean to insult poor people or rich people or anything like that but I find it just hard to live even as a millionaire I'm like how do people live I I don't know how it is in London it's super expensive in America uh and so the only way you can actually be able to have freedom to be able to make choices where you're not sweating this stuff start a business and then yes get to some point where it's enough and then you can share it with other people like one of my yearly goals this has been a yearly goal every year is to spend all the money on myself or others or donate it and what it forced me to do was like okay I can't keep this like there's the book die with zero which I know you like I have to spend it on others yeah I have to get someone a nice gift like so I'm going and seeing oh this will come out later I'm going to give some Rolexes to people oh nice that I'm like yeah think could be a very generous gift for them they'll be like holy [ __ ] or um I wore this Rolex because I got my girlfriend pregnant and so I said once I finally get not someone pregnant like that but I would me and my two best friends would all have matching Rolexes and this was our dream so now all three of us have women and we have we're all have uh our women are pregnant or have kids and it's just like a special thing for us and that's just having that goal that I you can every year it's in my goal list like spend all the money on myself or others or donate it and so these are some examples of having the money makes it easier and exciting to go and do that stuff what are the U for you what have been the I guess annual income step changes in like your because so so if you're earning 10K a 10K a year yeah presumably pretty miserable when you earning 40K you're sort of not living living it up 100K 500k a million 3 million what can can you remember like what were the meaningful numbers that changed your life circumstances in way that actually made you happier I think I was miserable until I was about 40 not miserable like super horrible but just never not really appreciating how good life is and not much has changed except my mentality okay so it's t about the money and more about the way you've approached life well and it's the thing that's crazy and I keep saying this is that it's not exclusive yeah it's available to everyone and you know one of my good buddies tinan he talks about he's like the person you are and the person you want to be is a lot closer than you think M like you're probably 99% there and there's just like 1% of things you want to change and if you zoom out on on this person you you are today you can just zoom out on where you are today you me everyone frankly lik's already pretty [ __ ] great yeah we have running water yeah if someone if someone's watching this life is pretty [ __ ] it comes out of a [ __ ] faucet you literally do this and like where does that water come from no one knows yeah and it's amazing we have electricity I every day I plug in my laptop I'm like that that whole electricity thing whoever that Thomas Edison guy or some woman who invented it God bless them so just taking a step back life is already so dope if we can just accept that and where we want to be with it's money life we're much closer than we even realize if we get going now in terms of my income I'll tell you my salaries exactly so I graduated 2004 uh Intel I made 55,000 then Facebook I made 65,000 then I went to Mint and I made 100,000 then I started my own company so I went down yeah then I started making 40,000 40,000 75,000 120,000 300,000 then I started my own company went down to zero uh so AB with zero 40 75 120 and then about six years into appsumo I noticed that I just didn't have anything to show for it and meaning that a lot of if you're starting certain companies in Tech space you want to sell your Equity go public liquid I was like I don't ever want to do that that's not my interest but I don't really have that much in the bank that I'd feel comfortable and candidly I felt a little I felt I felt it was hard to to take the money when I'm like there's other people in the company who are doing the work the only difference was I started and so how do I how do I balance making sure they're taking care of and then I'm taking care of and what I I feel is right and so uh about six years into appsumo started paying myself half a million Y and then the past every year it's been seven figures so like one to three million and that but to be clear that's only if we make money so when Co happened we had about a one and a half perc profit margin so I made less than a million um and that was about two years of that yeah and so this year thank God it's been an amazing year it's going to be a few million dollars inside which is blows my mind and so this is not Rel relevant for everyone else necessarily but when I I didn't actually feel that I had money until I had $3 million cash uh in the bank or like liquid liquid yeah totally arbitrary and my father started his own copier business he sold copers door to door yeah I don't even know if we have copers anymore you I haven't seen a copier in a while and he built a business and through his own choices like did a lot of drugs and did a lot of alcohol and lost his entire business and I remember just as a kid uh feeling really scared of doing the same thing where oh I'm drinking or I'm doing drugs like I'm definitely going to ruin all these things I've created and so at that point when I had just the cash and I have like a disproportion amount of cash in the bank uh because I wanted if everything ends like I want to be able to survive and so at $3 million cash I felt like okay I can survive the rest of my life safely if I if I think of myself like six years ago before I started the YouTube channel before I started my business I would have been like 10 years ago damn I'm old um something like an extra 2K a month would have meant like the entire world cuz when you're making like zero or like 3K a month an extra 2K it's like whoa I'm practically doubling my salary and now I can like go on that vacation or now I can buy MacBook Pro instead of MacBook Air or whatever the thing might be um but then as I grew the business more and more that number obviously changed yeah but now I'm sort of in the same Bullock as you are where like I'll probably take on maybe two and a bit million this year and I feel like that's more than enough that's more than enough like million goes into the S&P like you know I've got a bunch of rental properties oh sorry to hear that I know it's awful it's actually I hate it this is a real like first world problem um but they're still part of me like every now and then when I speak to someone like Sam and Shan who have such conviction that like yeah you got to go for 10 million I'm like huh no are they are they am I missing something that these guys understand because for example you and I are telling people that like you should make more money uh and and and get up to 3 million and someone listening to this or watching to this might might be thinking bro how could you 3 million I'd be happy with an extra 10K yeah and so but we're like that person's missing something because they don't know how great it is to be at 3 million so are Simon Sean like just like not missing are we missing something by not being in the tens of millions a year in terms of income is like I I guess something that I I think about I think most of the people that are saying bro I'm not at like a g even right their bigger problem is not that they're not at a million they're they're sweating the million or the 10g but they're not even getting a dollar that's the big holdup is that they got to get going is that 13 years ago I made zero yeah and then I made 40 and then I made 75 and then it was like flat and then eventually it's like holy [ __ ] like I can actually make Ser money but it's realizing I got to get started now thinking about a freedom number y so I can actually do the work I really want to do which was promoting software deals it's I love it I can't believe this I literally canot believe my life I got hang out with you get write a book get to do a YouTube channel we promot software and like in LA like this is unbelievable and it's not exclusive there's not some club that I got access to that no one else can yeah I did have advantages that like some people do and some people don't but it's like if you people get going have their freedom number get there and it's like huh actually I I've experimented having maybe a nicer bicycle or maybe a nicer guitar or maybe they go on nicer vacations they're like yeah I want this all the time yeah not when you're 60 I'd rather be rich at 40 than Rich at 60 which is what my parents are and which most people are it's like all right I'm going to work hard save a bunch of money and then maybe I'll get one like economy plus seat when I'm 65 it's like pretty good yeah it's it's not bad it's not bad but like the live flat seats you know and you can spend a little bit more money and enjoy yourself yeah I'd rather have that at 40 yeah and so just getting going is that person's problem not actually I I think it Millions if you're making a few million dollars a year you don't have any problems maybe you have some like mental stuff about happiness and contentment but like you can go to therapy do different other experiences and other ways of actually just recognizing how great life actually is this episode of Deep dive is being very kindly sponsored by TR trading 212 now investment and trading can seem pretty complicated especially if you're a beginner I've made a bunch of videos about this and the thing I always recommend is to just invest in lowcost Broad stock market index funds which you can actually do completely for free 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checked it out you may like to check it out it's available in physical format and also ebook and also audiobook everywhere books are sold I really like this this idea of and experiments um like in in my book the whole thing is like try this experiment in your life and see what happens and back in the day when I was kind of torn between do I do I do parttime medicine and parttime YouTube and and stuff I was like oh why don't I just run the experiment and so I ran the experiment for a few weeks I did part-time medicine parttime YouTube and I realized I don't like doing parttime medicine um and then I had a I was interviewed on Louis House's podcast and he talked me out of ever going back to Medicine cuz pretty good show yeah because I I you know we were talk about passive income and stuff and then I said to him like yeah you know I like the idea of being a doctor part time and he was like why and I was like oh um cuz like security and stuff and he was like really like how long would it take you to make 100K a year if you lost everything right now and I was like oh a year or two and he was like I'm sure you can do it like six months I was like yeah I probably could and it was like he really challenged me on that and help it helped me realize that actually I'd been Clinging On to this story that I needed to be a doctor part time even though I had run the experiment and even though I knew results of the experiment we like uh I actually don't enjoy this yeah but now I take a more experimental approach to think where where I'm like you know what is like experimenting with I don't know this is going to sound super out of touch but like airnb versus Hotel what's actually nicer turns out I prefer hotels because you get everything done for you and that's cool I realize I like convenience but actually economy Delight on Virgin Atlantic is just as good as business class there's no need to pay 15 grand for upper class when you can get economy Delight which is like $300 extra compared to economy and it's just as good and I'm like oh that's great I've now save 15K ver my fly version Atlantic so it's like I'm running these sort of mini exper this is these are dumb examples but these mini experiments in my life to be like does spending more money on thing X actually improve my happiness with thing X or can I just not do that and still be totally content exactly I'm getting more and more of this data over time well and I think this applies not just to there there's two separate things if we take a step back you're saying there's one about enjoying creating the money and the second part that we're talking about is enjoying your money yeah and this part no one talks about because most people are still trying to to create it yeah it's also very unfashionable to talk about how to enjoy money once you're already rich and this and what the reality though and I think what you're commenting on is actually really interesting this is super powerful how do you when you do an experiment yeah and it fails you don't say like I'm going to give up and blow this whole thing up you what do you what do you do you learn from it and you're like try another one yeah and so if people start thinking all right if I want to start a business I want to be an entrepreneur I want to get this great investment maybe I don't want to make Be A Millionaire maybe I just want to enough for groceries maybe I want enough for seed upgrades or maybe they want to be able to go to a nice meal when you think of it as an experiment you're not putting so much pressure on yourself to succeed yeah when you experiment you say I am going to try to do a cookie business or I'm going to try to start lawn care business or I'm going to try to start an accounting business whatever it is a software business doing invoicing whatever when you experiment and it fails you're like all right well that didn't work H this or this video didn't work what what can I learn from it you're not so pressured oh I'm a failure like no it didn't work okay let me go back and experiment and again and again and again and again and it's through this process which we I cover in the book as well most of the most successful people have experimented the most yeah think about that most of the most successful people have experimented the most they've done these things and a lot of the things did not work yeah I've done conferences I've done discount cards I've built a lot of software no one's ever seen yeah I've done so many things that no one's ever seen because no one wanted it same and so but I'm experimenting I keep at it and eventually that's led me to find something like appsumo that thank God has worked and I've been able to help a lot of people employ people and all these things but it's through the act of going at it starting it and just again and again like Shawn like Sam these guys have done things and tried it it didn't magically just happen overnight yeah yeah like from age 13 to 19 every year I haded one or two new business ideas I did affiliate marketing sites I did um pyramid scheme trade doubler kind of this was back in like the 20067 era I tried starting my own web design studio I tried making an online video game I tried contacting Nintendo to be like can I build an online version of Pokémon cuz I was learning how to program at the time I was like 14 years old um did they say yes no they were like [ __ ] off basically uh I built a forum where I was like super into these books of these kids who are spies and I built a forum that was like we're going to teach you how to do lockpicking and martial arts and stuff so if you're a kid you can learn these skills and I I did all this [ __ ] when I when I was in school and then the first thing I did that actually succeeded was when I was like 19 and was like why don't I apply all my skills of web design to this idea to to the fact that I know how to teach and I can I got into med school to build this courses business around helping people get into med school which then was making me like 40K a year in profit while I was while I was at University which led to my YouTube channel all of it sort of happened and even then like we had like a dozen acquisition channels for this courses business all of them were crap except when I started making YouTube videos that was the only acquisition Channel we had apart from spamming on forums that actually got a sales I was like oh this YouTube thing is good I should I should stick at this YouTube thing so even like if someone looks at my stuff now they're like oh he's a big YouTuber whatever but they don't see like the literally 15 years 16 years now of experimenting and trying random [ __ ] and throwing stuff at the wall and crucially I think and I really like your point about this I was having so much fun along the way could not get I could not wait to get home from like a day of lectures in med school to like Tinker away on the website of my of my courses business I couldn't wait to learn like PHP backend programming so I could s sit up with my brother pair programming like this medical school question Bank in like 2015 and when I was home for the holidays that was so fun it was so exhilarating and if you can find find that thing and get started with it in a way that's actually fun I think it's the fun and the enjoyment that that sustains you on the journey and eventually something will succeed of course it will it's it's not not going to succeed but as you say way too many every everyone either struggles to start or they just quit way too early exactly hey this a good stuff so what else is in the book I feel like we we we've just like vaguely scratched the surface um no there's a lot in the book there's a lot you've gone full Ham on like 1 12200 beta testers like beta testing every chapter and making sure it's only the good [ __ ] I'm so inspired hearing I was intimidated hearing about your beta testing strategy I was like [ __ ] we're not doing that for Rob yeah I mean taking a step back I think one of the cheat codes for anyone out there is how do you how do you buy or copy or steal the 10,000 hours from other people yeah everyone's heard it right but I don't have 10,000 hours to go be a doctor I don't have 10,000 hours to be the greatest writer in the world I don't have 10,000 hours to be the best YouTuber in the world so how can I pay to get someone else an affordable price to be able to help me with these things and so this is available you know you've had different business coach is on so for this book I wanted you know and let me tell you that the origin story of the book because I think this is applicable for everyone out there 15 years ago I said I wanted to write a book and a few years ago I was like all right well I'm I'm just gonna write a book because that's what you do I started and I sent it to an agent named Lisa demono she's uh rem's agent's agent she uh rem's your a thiago's agent James clear's agent I believe and I sent her the proposal and she laughed at me she's like this is not a real proposal like come back when you're serious and this is like you know top Top Class agent and everyone could relate to that you know you do this thing and you get rejected and and it's like how do we have courage to face fear and that's what courage is it's being afraid and doing it anyways that's courage and she rejected it and and all these rejections whether you know we teach you through the book every rejection is just a test if you want something oh every rejection is just a test if you want something 100% okay do you really want it and so when she rejected me I was like yeah I want this book there's nothing else out there like it that helps you overcome your fear and helps you get the the business actually started and then growing and so then talk about cheat codes I started hiring 10,000 hour people so I found the guy who wrote James's clear book proposal David M oh yeah I worked with him in mine yeah and so I he ripped mine to th M to shreds he took what I read wrote and then laughed at it deleted everything redid it and then I was able to sell the book for a ton of money yeah because I paid a guy who's got 10,000 hours on it after David I then said all right I want to I'm I'm a pretty good writer I like making content all these things but I'm like a blogger Twitter I'm not a real storyteller author let me find the best in the world and so I went and looked through all the best business books in the past decade and there's a guy who's written two of them his name is to robs here so he wrote Never split the difference and also what else did he write uh Never Eat Alone Oh I haven't read that I've heard good things phenomenal okay nice this book was called never be poor That was cuz he likes never or never be poor in a weekend no but uh never be poor why did you not call it never he has like never in his title uh and so it was basically trying to I I cold emailed him yeah just like anyone else can and I said hey I wrote this proposal took me a year to write the proposal and again these are just things that people can think about all right so I got going it didn't work but I still wanted it I wanted it I passed the rejection test I had you know then I was like all right I spent a year writing the proposal and then with tall I was like I want you to write this book with me whatever it takes and so I was able to work with him to then write this book and then uh it's like all right how do I do this in other aspects of my life whether it's a business coach or Moody for marketing or CEO coach like go find some one pay him $1,000 an hour or pay him whatever it takes and the amount of value you get is insane out of it yeah uh and then through the book candidly and this probably will come across I'm not supposed to do this I'm supposed to be like super confident like I've started all these businesses I've got a lot of confidence it's like no I'm insecure just like everyone else everyone else out there everyone has some insecurities or lack of confidence and with tall in this book I said all right well I've started a bunch of businesses and a lot of them made millions of dollars and I've worked for Zuckerberg start.com I was scared of writing the book because I was like I don't know if it can really help people so let me me give the book to tall we went we went we went for a week in the woods which is kind of weird uh two guys that didn't know each other two bald Jewish dudes he and then I was like he's just going to write the book and do everything and then hopefully it's good and it'll help people yeah and all of us have a hero's journey inside of us and I was just so afraid of the book just like appsumo I was afraid that I'll ruin this company as well and I thought he would just save me which I think a lot of us do like all right I'm not going to try this thing out I'm not going to try the business out I'm not going to try the the job out I'm not going to try this relationship out cuz afraid afraid of what action can become which is amazing we realize that there's some level that you can be on that's [ __ ] awesome and as we working on the book I realized like I had to face my fear of can I actually help people or not even though I've done it myself even though I've hired literally the best writers in the world got the best publishing company the best agent I don't know if this going to work I'm really afraid and that's what led me to then build the beta team which is basically like thousands of people so every chapter had 20 people go through every single page 10 chapters 20 people for chapter and they're like yeah this is this is crap here's what we like now not how we like that we don't understand this this doesn't make sense then I started baited every weekend we baa test with five people so I just got off there's a guy William there's a guy LG there's a guy Felipe he's a he's a developer he wanted to start developing business and I was like okay let's go through the book all right you're afraid of you're afraid of starting let's go do the coffee challenge wait where you're like on Zoom calls with these guys we're doing our WhatsApp groups oh wow so every weekend there's you but every weekend there's different people going through their own million dollar weekend experience so I can understand wow if it actually will help them or not that's insane and so every weekend for six months now and then until the book launches and maybe afterwards we'll do it I wanted to build a book around will this actually help people change their life and start a business which literally you can change your life in 48 hours that's pretty [ __ ] nuts yeah and it's available for everyone it's pretty nuts it is nuts and so through all of us it's realizing that we can face our fears and overcome hard things and through doing this book helping thousands of people now literally just this book not not all the business I've started which has been a lot not through working for Zuckerberg not through all this stuff it's like oh wow it actually works and so that's been the part of building my own confidence then to come out here be like dude this book if people actually want to change their life start a business I'm excited about a million dollar weekend so I don't feel like I have to go sell it I feel like it's my responsibility to tell people like we're talking coming back full circle I'm like yo if you were trying to change your life in a weekend if you don't like your job or you want to create your own job you actually can so you're going to be a dad fairly soon I'm going to be a dad in July which is insane yeah how how has that changed your approach to I guess work and life 180 okay first off it's made me have a lot more admiration for moms we have at Absol when I started we didn't have health insurance for 5 years it was just like stay inside don't leave your house so you'll stay healthy I mean that was that was our health insurance plan because we couldn't afford it yeah we have moms at EP suumo and I have so much respect for them the fact they can they show up at work and they do amazing jobs like and they're pregnant with it as well as moms and families I have a lot more respect for how hard it is uh my my girlfriend is going through like morning sickness and all these things and she still has to go to her own day job yeah and so that that's been a first part just like wow a lot of admiration for families and especially the people who are birthing I'm like holy [ __ ] this is tough secondly I would say the 180 is how much time we waste we [ __ ] around so much and being a parent to me and being you know with this book being in a company being whatever it's like are you showing up like you say this is your priority but this is your behavior is your priority and behavior actually aligned and I've been noticing with my girlfriend she's been saying hey I need you finishing at 6 and I'm like dude I I dig around at work till at least seven or eight you know and it's been a great 180 and a great blessing that I want to be available for my family I want to be able to show up on time I want to prioritize what I say as my priority which is my girlfriend and our baby yeah and so how do I adjust my schedule and my what I'm working on so that I do the most important things and really finish on time I think everyone should think about the pregnancy hack just imagine your your husband or wife and your family you're about to have a family and you don't have a lot of time I am much more selective what I'm going to be doing who I'm going to be doing with and making sure I finish on time and as well being an entrepreneur I can have a lot more flexibility in that I don't have to go to my day job I don't have to worry about a three-month maternity plan I could take a 12-month that's what I really want to do with my family but just changing my perspectives on time it's much more intentional because I want to show up I really like that yeah this something I've been thinking about a lot like um one thing that I would I would I would like to be the sort of person who prioritizes relationships over work and so there have been a few occasions where my girlfriend has needed me for something and in that moment I was like set up for filming a YouTube video and that YouTube video would have made 20 grand in sponsorship revenue and I was like at that moment of Crossroads decisions my default is to do the work thing but the sort of person I would like to be the the person I aspire to be is someone who values relationships over work and so recently over the last few months I've been making the decision to be like screw the YouTube video I'm an entrepreneur I can do what I want like the whole point of getting to this point where I have freedom is so that I can literally give it to the people who I love and to my family like that's literally the point um and like you know I was uh that was there was there was thing where I was I was going to like I was going to go home for the go home to see my mom for dinner or something and my car had broken down and like the public transport wasn't working and then I was like oh you know I can't I can't go to see my mom for dinner then I was like wait a minute let me just Uber it and I was like $200 to get an Uber to see my screw it I've I mean that's literally the point the whole point of making money and doing all this stuff and getting all this freedom is to be able to then cash in for the things that you actually care about yeah and I I I enjoy catching myself now in moments where the default conditioning of save money or like do work or like work harder or do this thing actually no I could film another YouTube video tonight or I could go to the gym I also value my health more than work so let's just do that um whereas in the past I definitely would have been like oh no but like I need to build a business in like one more video now I feel like I'm changing that and more like valuing health and relationships how old do you know 29 you're going through like decades and years man I feel like you're on your 40th year only cool people that I interview I always learn from people that's why I'm questions that possibly half this interview people can't relate to but like I I want to know the answers to these question I think a lot of them can relate to I think a lot of them can recognize like hey if I want to be at a place where I can do whatever it is that you want to do in your life that is starting now so when you're 25 or 35 or 55 whatever that is 45 yeah you can be there yeah and I I do think it's relatable hopefully we'll see no and and what I say about that is there is a bi there's a success bias like I'm already so far removed from being like you know having a $ 55,000 job dollar job living at my mom's house to now having my own crazy house which I can't believe yeah your house is sick unbelievable but it was it was getting going on these things and realizing like huh in my 20s I definitely I was just I was working really hard and I think that's great I think you work if I had to break these decades down because I'm in my 40s and I'm finally [ __ ] happy I would say like actually content yeah I'd say 20s is just like you're suffering you're grinding you're uncertain you're frustrated you're angry at your parents maybe you're one of the Chosen Few people that that have like actually like figured it out but IID say in my 20s I was just like I don't know living on floors for a year like I told you going to Argentina going to Thailand for months at times and then 30s I'm like okay I finally found work I I like doing which is promoting stuff on appsumo but like I'm not figuring out this dating part I didn't realize how important partner selection is I just dated whoever I got not got who I want that's the same thing with asking if you don't ask you don't get you just hope for something instead of ask and get what you want and so 30s you kind of dial some of these things in and 40s you're calm you're calm you're like okay okay do I like being with my partner yes I love being with my partner I love she's awesome partner but I finally took time to go to I went to Stephanie rig it's a relationship coach okay and I go to therapy and I've hired other dating coaches and doing these the work of understanding myself to be there and then the same thing with my actual professional life it's like okay I don't like some of this stuff how do we finally get more calm and clear on it I think in the 20s it just feels more frantic and I'd say overall for everyone out there there's really two components of this whole journey that we're all on on a planet which is Bonkers one is patience we're so I'm so impatient I was impatient to get rich I was impatient to have a kid I was impatient it's like dude just chill out it'll all work out but we're we're all rushing to somewhere which is going to be the death which everyone ends up at so just be patient before you get there and enjoy all these things and I'd say the other part that I would I would recommend as well is just be generous to yourself be generous to yourself be generous to others and if we can just do a little more of that you just a little bit more generous like okay no you're doing okay today all you're doing okay today you you're doing okay today yeah be patient guess what it it does work out it really does and I think in these moments where it's not we're we're feeling frustrated and cre making it such a worse situation no me that's was a great place to end this um thank you so much thank you so much for the advice and all the inspiration and mentorship over the years um pleasure last question what would you like I'm 29 I'm going to turn 30 in about six months hoping to get married maybe sometime next year to have kids maybe soonish after that um any advice put on some that's my advice nice that's good and so let me let me unpack that a bit I got to meet suria he was on The Apprentice you remember the show The Apprentice like a we had a UK version of it as well yeah yeah same thing and um I was 25 we were at like a Denny's in the Bay Area and he was on The Apprentice I like oh you're on The Apprentice so cool and he worked for Neutrogena the skare company yeah and he was like put on sunblock and and try to lotion and wash your face every night oh nice I was like okay we'll do that and now I have a skincare routine which actually was one of the most popular emails I've sent in the past two years oh no way yeah that's one of my most popular videos in the last few years dude I'm say SK yeah I think what's interesting for you turning 30 and for everyone else out there it's kind of what we're talking about million dollar weekend which is you know following the process I started when I was 25 I got started right now so when he told me that I went home and I bought Neutrogena the the roller I still have it in my bag yeah and I started putting it on and at 41 it's like my skin actually looks pretty good it looks pretty good looks like you had a skin yeah I mean I you know and I was out all day at the ners game yesterday it was a it was a full day and but the reality was I I I started something and I stuck with it for a long period of time and it was something small like putting on sunblock yeah and so for yourself you know what's the thing you're starting now that when you're 40 you're like oh I'm glad I put on some sunblock think it's working out yeah is that working out yeah I think it is I think it is that it is that I've been kind of doing it on and off but not but not consistently for years like forever what do you think's holding you back or I'd never quite taken it seriously in that when it was a choice between working out and work I would choose work because I was building and I was like work was more fun than working out and when I was feeling lazy and low energy I'd like oh I'll just work on a YouTube video or whatever rather than go down go to the gym but put in that extra effort um but I've decided after attending a Tony Roberts event um which I know that you're not a fan of but I decided that like my top goal for 2024 was to get into the best shape of my life so that not so that I can get into best shape of my life so that a I could experiment with what it's like being in super super good shape to see if I want to but more importantly to build a habit of working out because I also read outlive by petera and I was like oh [ __ ] I need to get started while I'm relatively young to build the foundation of muscle and course strength and stamina and flexibility and all that stuff so now working out regularly what do you think that would give you if you in shape and you're working on all the time just Better Health and Longevity for the long term which is kind of what I'm going for and I'm trying to find a way to make it fun and then what do you what would be fun like how could you make enjoy because this is true for all everything we talked about we talked about being rich all these things it's just not fun because today they have to start and get going and then in five years or 10 years or one year they'll be millionaires or fit or whatever those things are they have to create a fun environment which is in the book I'm like okay I'm going to make it fun so you do get going and get start and keep with it but like what would be fun for you in terms of exercise what has been fun um I quite enjoy going to the gym on my own listening to an audio book while I'm doing it not like trying to go yeah I just realized this I I don't like it when I have to work super hard because then I'm like sweating and it's like huffing and puffing and stuff but you know doing it at my own pace still going to sort of failure or nearly failure on on the sets that I'm doing um but just taking my time with it a bit more and treating it as more like an enjoyable Pleasant activity rather than oh [ __ ] I've got half an hour I need to try and out the workout I Poss can and so I get I get through a lot of AUD books and stuff and sometimes I film myself and put turn into Instagram real of like working out trying to get that Lululemon or gym shark sponsorship or whatever the have you not got the gym shark thing yet yet we all my clothing is Lululemon now so I might reach out to them get get them I I guess even taking a step back there yeah what would make it fun though like so what I mean by that this is something I've learned in my like late 30s 40s like I don't enjoy I used to go to the gym and it literally feels like a jail it's like okay so I go to this place and I literally I'm picking up something and I just put it back down like my workout like that makes no sense to me yeah like that's not fun like I don't want to go to a room filled with other people and and be trapped and so I was like okay well how do I do get the the outcome I want which is to be healthy but I do it an enjoyable way so what are other ways for you I can I can share mine for me it was like okay I like cycling because I'm going somewhere I'm seeing the world I can do it everywhere in the world you can do it on the cheap you can do it expensive okay that's cardio or something and I was like I want to kind of maybe be fit so I started picking up boxing because you know I'm I don't want to get beat up as I get on YouTube I'm like oh they're going to beat me up or something like that I want to and it's a skill as well as then you get exercise so I like okay that's kind of fun that it's actually not kind that's super fun and then squash and so oh that squash yeah so I think with exercising what I've noticed besides sticking with it and okay maybe you have audio books how do you do ones where you're like no one has to ask you to go do it no one has to convince you to go do it you just actually want to go do it maybe it's kickboxing maybe it's Core Power Yoga downstairs maybe it's stretching maybe it's whatever and so it's like how do I change you know same thing we talk about rejection being a bad thing how do you make it a good thing how do you find exercise that's actually fun not you're convincing convincing yourself it's fun yeah no I'm I'm in the process of experimenting so squash is one of those things to me where I would I I I don't need discipline to play Squash but I still need discipline to go to the gym and so I want to try Crossfit because I've heard good things about that I've done a few yoga classes like I tried kickboxing for a bit and I need to try boxing because I've heard good things about boxing but I'm trying to do some experimentation to find what is that thing um but also I think I think almost everything we can find a way to make it fun and I would like I I think if if I can find a way to make lifting weights of the gym lifting a weight up and putting it back down again if I can find a way to make that fun I'm going to be in shap for the rest of my life because I might not have access to like a boxing gym or whatever the thing might be um I know I'll be fit for the rest of my life if if that's the case um so yeah just trying to trying to make it fun have you tried any accountability Partners yeah do you know Dan go yeah he's my he's my fitness coach um so I send him my little workout every time I and is like good job how has that helped it's really useful he we have a call every other week for 20 minutes he answers my questions he helps me out a bit he's really good I'm like yeah you know I'm traveling so I can't get enough protein and he's like okay well have you consider just getting some protein powder and putting in your suitcase and I'm like good idea I'll just do that yeah it's interes like Adam Gilbert my body.com is similar to Dan uh Adam is one of my best friends in my accountability partner for like a decade yeah and literally before I walked into the show I was like Adam I'm not drinking until Thursday because that that's definitely an outlet where it's like a hard day and you want to go relax you have a glass of wine and it was nice to have that support So for everyone out there it's like whether honestly in business as well as in you know in health and relationships it's finding coaching and Elite people uh to support you in these different areas and it doesn't have to be expensive it can also be a friend or someone else exactly yeah good stuff exellent thank you for having me we'll have so we didn't talk about picking ideas we didn't talk about scaling your ideas we didn't talk about growing your business any of these things I'll have at millionar weekend.com all anyone goes there I'll have a free thing for them to get all these different templates resources step-by-step stuff uh from the second and third parts of the book damn that's that's really clever and also really cool pretty good it's just interesting because you need to think like hey if you want more if you actually want templates videos step by step resources ni and we we're going to do a book club video about the book where we expl break down some of the bits and box are you really yeah and so the idea is that we'll take some of the sound bites from this and use them as to like prop up the book club video it's coming on 30th gen yeah cool we will do our best to get the video out that week Namaste thank no you've been such an inspiration over the last few years want want to do whatever I can to help help support the book and the amount of beta readers you got I haven't read it yet but I'm sure it's going to be [ __ ] incredible the BET yeah yeah I think that's I was walking in here with with Isaac who I've been filming with for a few years and I love this guy and doing the book and everyone can create whatever the hardest thing is for themselves like I think that's something I've been trying to think about myself like what's the hard thing I'm avoiding like doing the book I was I wanted to avoid it but I had to face some challenge in my life we all do and then when you face these things you realize it's not as hard as I thought yeah starting a business doing relationship whatever it is and uh going into the book it's been amazing and I'm sure you you've you're experiencing this well like how many people whatever you're doing but specifically with the book how many people want to help us yeah that's have you noticed that nice I'm like oh man that's cool yeah and that's been you know I was working with this guy Jake on his own business recently and he was calling people and and getting his business going using the million dollar ween process and he's like yeah these people actually are buying yeah like yeah dude they well they wouldn't if they didn't want to and people want to see you succeed and I think people need a little bit more of that in their Liv realizing like you can help others and others want to help you win too nice good stuff man thanks every Bud all right so that's it for this week's episode of Deep dive thank you so much for watching or listening all the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are going to be linked down in the video description or in the show notes depending on where you're watching or listening to this if you're listening to this on a podcast platform then do please leave us a review on the iTunes Store it really helps other people discover the podcast or if you're watching this in full HD or 4k on YouTube then you can leave a comment down below and ask any question questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode that would be awesome and if you enjoyed this episode you might like to check out this episode here as well which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode so thanks for watching uh do hit the Subscribe button if you aren't already and I'll see you next time bye-bye
