How to Repair the Damage After a Fight | Dr. Becky Kennedy

this is the 10% happier podcast I'm Dan [Music] Harris hello everybody how we doing if it is true and it is true but anyway if it is true that the science strongly suggests that the quality of your relationships will determine the quality of your life life then what logically follows from that is that if you want to be as healthy and as happy and uh live as long as possible you need to learn the skills to do relationships better you can call this interpersonal hygiene some psychologists call it Social Fitness whatever you want to call it these are essential life skills which are very rarely taught to us which brings me to today's guest who is here with some extremely useful Social Fitness strategies specifically how to to repair the damage after you get into a fight with somebody Dr Becky Kennedy is a clinical psychologist bestselling author and mom of three who's been called the millennial parenting Whisperer by Time Magazine to be clear right here from the jump uh Becky spends much of her public and professional life thinking about and talking about parenting but she is trained as a therapist for grown-ups and also as a couple's counselor and this conversation I think is going to be very useful even to people who don't have kids a little bit more about Dr Becky she's the founder and CEO of good inside a content and Community company she wrote the number one New York Times best-selling book also called good inside and she hosts a podcast by the same name she's just out with a new Ted talk about repairing the damage after a fight and in this conversation we're going to dive much more deeply into this question how to do repair what happens if you don't do it and whether it's ever too late plus her definition of boundaries and an awesome concept that I'm already using in my own life when I get into conflict MGI and LGI most generous interpretation and least generous interpretation I love this conversation I think you will too wonder plus subscribers can listen to 10% happier early and AD free right now join wondery Plus in the Wonder app or on Apple podcasts maybe you don't have as much time for reading as you'd like I'm here to suggest audible they offer an incredible selection across every genre from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity Memoirs Mysteries and thrillers motivation Wellness business and more the app makes it easy to listen anytime anywhere while traveling commuting working out walking the dog doing chores around the house I'm currently listening to how we live is how we die by Pema CH who's been a guest on the 10% happier podcast new members can try audible free for 30 days visit audible.com or 10 text 10% to 500500 that's audible.com or text 10% to 500500 to try audible free for 30 days [Music] audible.com have you ever stayed in an Airbnb before and thought huh maybe my place could be an Airbnb it could be more doable than you think it could be as simple as starting with a spare room or maybe your whole place when you're away 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life insurance for this very reason if something terrible were to happen I would not want to put my family in financial distress on top of their emotional distress policy genius knows how valuable your time is their technology makes it easy to compare life insurance quotes from America's Top insurers in just a few clicks to find your lowest price with policy genius you can find life insurance policies that start at just $292 a year for a million dollar of coverage some options offer same day approval and avoid unnecessary medical exams your family deserves peace of mind a life insurance policy through policy genius can give it to them head to policygenius.com to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much you could save that's policygenius.com [Music] Dr Becky Kennedy welcome to the show thanks for having me Dan congratulations on your Ted Talk which I was there for in person and was dazzling in the audience and same digitally let's start with a TED Talk you start the talk by describing a fight with your son can you tell that story yeah so essentially I had been cooking dinner for my family it was a Sunday night and Sunday nights to me they're just so hard like there's a million things that were undone from the weekend there's a million things I know I need to do for the week and so I'm often kind of on edge so I actually cooked dinner that night which is not something I usually do but I did and then my son kind of walked into the kitchen and he just looked at the table and he's like oh chicken again and then he kind of like mumbled like disgusting like that and I you know there's so many things I wish I did in that moment but I didn't and I just exploded and I think my body was just completely full of frustration at that moment there was not like one ounce left to metabolize any additional frustration and so it all came out and I just yelled at him I was like what is wrong with you you're so spoiled you know and just kind of went on in this scary reactive way he then proceeded to say I hate you and then he ran out of the kitchen he ran to his room he slammed the door he's alone there I'm alone in the kitchen and you know that's how the night began sounds like good parenting to me what's the problem well you know and I think this is the focus of the Ted Talk and in that that moment happened and and I actually think every single person like if you're a parent you're like yeah yeah that moment happened in my house if you're not a parent you're like oh I've said things I didn't want to say I've used a tone that I am not proud of right that is the moment and then often what we do after the moment and I did this we spiral we usually spiral in one form of blame and actually often we seesaw right the blame of what's wrong with my kid my kid is so obnoxious I'm cooking food what's wrong with my kid or what's wrong with my boss or what's wrong with my partner like what's wrong with the other person and then we seesaw between that and like what's wrong with me why did I do that I messed up this other person forever I'm such an right and irony and I think the thing that the talk really speaks to is what does in some ways more damage to another person isn't actually the event or the moment of yelling it's actually what happens in that spiral because as we spiral in blaming someone else and or blaming ourselves we actually fail to go reconnect and to repair the relationship and repair as is the subject of the Ted Talk is actually the most powerful parenting strategy we have so we miss out on this really really important overall relationship moment so mess ups are going to happen in parenting or any other relationship it's what you do subsequently the repair that is the key yeah and I think there's like a really big picture here right I didn't talk about this too much in the Ted talk but a lot of my thoughts around repair really come from trauma literature and understanding trauma and we know trauma is not the event that happened it's the way an event gets processed in your body body I think another way of saying that I love Gabor M's way he says trauma isn't the thing that happens to you it's kind of what happens inside of you and so parents non-parents we all can really focus on the event on the moment but in every relationship it's actually more about whether that moment gets stored in our body next to aloneness and nobody talking about it or denying from other people or whether that moment gets stored next to connection and safety and love and explanation understanding that actually determines the way the event gets Remembered in our body so yes those moments happen for everyone everyone yells everyone snaps everyone says the thing that's imperfect we all do and I think what I really want people you know to shift in terms of their perspective is rather than focusing on the kind of harmful impact of the event to really really be aware of the healing powerful opportunity of the repair that can happen next this is an interesting reframe because most of us as you said use moments of disregulation to blame other people and beat the out of ourselves but actually the reframe that I'm hearing from you is oh these are going to happen anyway you might as well view them as an opportunity completely and we've inherited those coping mechanisms right like that tendency to blame ourselves or blame someone else I mean that's not something we were born with right like no babies like in their crib waking up their parents at 2 a.m. and being like Oh like is that too much like did I really need that feeding or I'm such a selfish baby we're not born with that tendency to blame and actually that tendency we all have which we can talk more about why but the blaming mentality it is a very stuck mentality there's no movement possible I'm kind of burrowing back into myself or I'm focusing all my energy on how awful someone else was nobody can make any changes from that place so it's also and I know you're a pragmatist too Dan like it's just it's a very ineffective mindset because after we yell most of us like don't want to do that again and so it's about finding a mindset and a couple of next steps that actually can help us change rather then keep us stuck in that awful moment so you talk about the three steps for repair let's go through them step number one is actually internal not external yeah when I think of three steps to repair the first step okay and I really mean this is to mess up and that I think is so important it's helped me personally as a recovering perfectionist so much because I remember being in grad school and hearing this line that my professor said like in passing and I remember it being like I'm not going to hear anything anything else you said that thing you said in passing was just so profound and what she was talking about was how repair is a marker of secure attachment kids who had more repairs growing up were more likely to have a secure attachment secure attachment basically predicts everything good that we want for our kids and then she kept talking about attachment I was like wait wait a second wait a second no one else is like finding this profound if repair is a marker of secure attachment that means everyone ruptures like why is no one highlighting this because also if repair helps kids get into secure attachment then you can't repair if you didn't rupture it's almost like full permission to mess up it's like you have to rupture to get good at repair and so when I think about the three steps of repair and saying Step One is rupture which means yelling saying the thing you don't want to say messing up whatever you want to say that actually is step one and the reason that helps me so much is because and I did this in the kitchen after I yelled at my son I was like okay instead of going to the abyss of I'm an awful parent I messed up my kid forever I actually picture this road and I'm like okay I'm actually on the road to repair and I know I'm on the road because I just ruptured if step three is repairing with my kid Step One is rupturing like I Crush that step I'm a third of the way there like that's that's pretty close look at my momentum right and I really do say that to myself like wow look at me I'm like getting closer okay so that's step one and if you're thinking about repair you've already done step one it's pretty you know pretty compelling step two is comping with ourselves and this is the step that I think too many people were never taught and it's really the singular reason why so many people would say yeah I'm not good at apologizing and it's not because you're selfish and it's not because you don't have empathy it's actually probably because you hold yourself with such derision and shame and blame that you literally can't face the reality of this thing you did so we can never repair with someone else if we can't accept that this not so good thing actually is something that we did and the only way we can accept that we did a kind of bad thing is actually by differentiating how I'm still a good person who did a bad thing and if I can't repair in that way which does not mean excusing it we mix up all those things okay if I can't separate from myself hey Becky I'm a good person who did a bad thing I'm a good parent who loves her kid who yelled like really separating what I say is my good identity from my bad behavior it will be actually completely impossible to repair with my kit we we cannot give out compassion and connection and goodness if we haven't reaccessed those qualities in ourselves we can't give out what we don't have in it's just like I don't know there's like physics I think it's just not possible um it's actually not physics um but it's something and then the last step is actually repairing with your kid and this is where I think getting into some of the details matter because I think a lot of us probably received apology that didn't feel good and that is not what I'm talking about a repair is not sorry I yelled but if you didn't complain about dinner it wouldn't have happened that is not a repair and if my son had said yeah like I really didn't like when you yelled at me if I say yeah I'm sorry you feel that way that is that classic line should be thrown in the garbage it is not a repair a repair is naming what happened taking responsibility for your behavior acknowledging the impact it had on someone else and if really want to go for bonus points kind of like sharing what you would do differently the next time or what you're working on and that sounds very different then I'm sorry but if you didn't do that it wouldn't have happened sounds more like hey I yelled at you in the kitchen and it's never your fault when I yell I'm sure that felt really scary and look I was frustrated but I'm working on managing my frustration so it doesn't come out as a yell does repair always involve an abject apology and admission of fault what if it's more complicated what if there are I mean your kid wasn't being awesome in that moment and sometimes when we lose our with other people they're being worse than that 100% so there's a lot of nuance here so there's a couple things because I know you know as a parent you're like but like if he didn't say that you wouldn't have yelled like isn't he kind of responsible or you know you say in a partnership but my wife said this kind of not so nice thing so like she kind of did make me snap back at her okay but here's here's one of the things I think about here number one we confuse our right to feel frustration with our right to express frustration in an angry disrespectful way they're two very different things the right to have a feeling and our responsibility to manage that feeling so we can show up as a respectful person especially in the relationships we care about those are two very different things my son saying that or maybe let's say my partner con constantly being late for dinners yeah of course I feel frustrated and of course that relates to my son saying he didn't like dinner or my husband being late that is completely different from feeling like I have a right to express that frustration in any way I choose to express it I think it's so important to differentiate that so that's number one number two when parents say this to me they say yeah well I said to my kid look if you just listened to me and got ready in time I wouldn't have yelled or if you didn't complain about dinner you wouldn't have gotten yelled at okay this is what I say okay because what we model to our kid is what they will do in the future like Dan I imagine being at my son's house I don't know however many years from now let's say he's married who knows if he will be but and I hear him say let's say to his partner look I'm sorry I yelled at you but if you had just remembered to bring toilet paper home it wouldn't have happened I'm sorry I yelled at you but if the dinner you made actually tasted good it wouldn't have happened to me it's like literally cringeworthy if my kid would think that that is an acceptable way to talk to someone and I don't know any adult who would be like yeah I would feel pretty awesome if I heard my kid talk to some of their loved ones in that way and if we don't want our kids to become adults who communicate with others in that way we just can't communicate with our kids in that way and expect it to be any different there's also like a bigger picture here if we zoom out I I realized I'm very very big on personal agency right and I always say to parents like what's going on with your kid isn't your fault I believe that that is like a firm firm belief of mine another equally firm belief that I just sip side by side is okay so what's going on with my kid isn't my fault I am the adult I'm the leader in the room and so it is not only my responsibility I do have an opportunity to think about what I could do to shift a dynamic in the home because when we shift something in a system everyone else in the system actually has to make a shift to accommodate and so if we give that example of let's say instead I yell at my kid every morning because they're never ready for school and the truth is if they did put on their shoes I wouldn't yell I guess that's true but to me it's very disempowering it's very disempowering as an adult to think you know if my four-year-old just listened to me on time I wouldn't yell like I am going to put Faith in my toddler's change and behavior for me to show up as the adult I want to show up as that would be like the CEO of a big company saying to their Associates you know if you all showed up in time I would be a better leader I don't think anyone wants that CEO you want a CEO who's like hey here's what I'm going to do from the top because I actually am have the most power in this situation and there's a really important thing that happens and this happens in my house all the time when I do say to my kid something like Hey listen something like I'm sorry I yelled the mornings have been really hectic I'm frustrated I'm working on managing that I always give myself 24 hours later I always say there has to be 24 hours after repair of course I'm a pragmatist then I'll say to my kid I won't say now remember how I apologized to you yesterday I didn't actually mean it because because you're actually just really annoying in the morning that definitely is not something I recommend but what I'll say is something from seeing my kid on my same team I'd say hey mornings are so hard like I ask you to put your shoes on you don't I ask again you don't and then it gets to the point where things feel really really bad and that's on me and I have to imagine you also want mornings to be smoother I wonder what we could do to just make mornings smoother and when kids are approached from a place of collaboration rather than control or criticism it's shouldn't be shocking that they're actually willing to collaborate and they're often very willing to apologize I can't even tell you how many times 24 hours later after a repair my 5-year-old came and said you know and I I really didn't listen to you and I'm sorry like and I think this goes back to like this whole idea that drives everything I talk about that kids are good inside that if we set up conditions for them to thrive they don't have to be tricked or sticker charted or time outed or punished a lot of that does come out when we lead with a similar generosity I want to get back to good inside eventually but let's just stay with repair so are you saying that there's a fourth step which is after you repair give 24 hours and then go back and teach a little bit either to your kid or to a grown-up with whom you've had a rupture yeah so we can use a grown-up example I always say 24 hours just cuz I know I need that there's like totally nothing scientific about that but I know if it's less than that I'm going to end up kind of like linking it directly and negating my apology I just need that time in my body to kind of cool down usually by then I've realized wait I like this person like I actually do see them as a teammate I've like forgotten that when I was in the Heat of the Moment and so there often is either a skill that's missing or you know some problem that does need to be worked through from a place of teamwork right so let's say I don't know it could be a situation in the office where you end up snapping at someone and you're like they really didn't do a great job on their presentation but also like I kind of snapped at them and like embarrassed them in the company meeting right so a pair might look like hey I'm sorry I said that in front of everyone that was not okay um and I want to let you know that some repair and then back my mind I'm like but they did do this like kind of you know half job okay so if I'm following this I be like I'm gonna wait 24 hours I'm G to wait till I get a little more grounded and then to me it's really important to activate a framework to me whenever we're in conflict with someone we either approach them like it's me on one side of the table and I'm looking at them at the other side of the table like they're the problem and if they just kind of like basically became a little bit more like me we wouldn't have a problem versus it's actually me and this person on the same side of the table and together we are looking at a problem and if I don't get myself in that mindset let's say with my colleague there's just no way I'm going to be effective so it would take 24 hours and then I might approach a colleague like this I might say Hey you know I'm thinking back on yesterday again totally not okay for me to yell I'm just thinking we're on the same team here we both want to produce something well I'm making this up for our client and I'm just looking back and thinking that some of the feedback I had given you earlier in the week wasn't Incorporated and so when the presentation you know went on I was really surprised by that and I think you know the best thing moving forward is just for us to think hey like how can that not happen again like I'm sure you want to do a good job too maybe there was something that wasn't clearly communicated maybe there was something that felt intimidating but I just want I want to talk about that with you not only so we're not in that situation again but almost more importantly so we can figure out how to work better together like the truth is had I said to my colleague the day before look I'm sorry I yelled but your presentation was like a joke and you didn't incorporate anything I said okay that next conversation of like hey how can we actually productively make change literally would have never happened my colleague would have been like Becky's an and I feel awful about myself and I would have thought oh this person's hopeless I would have seen them as an antagonist they would have seen me as an enemy as well and literally nothing has ever happened productively from that type of framework work and so repair finding my own goodness kind of again seeing goodness in someone else do repair it actually allows me 24 hours later to actually move forward in a productive way it's like a win-win win for everyone in the whole system yeah that all makes sense I'm just thinking about I've been doing communication coaching with this couple Dan Kerman and mudita nisker for five years and I still it up all the time but one of their primary tenants is teamwork yes getting people to see inviting people into collabor problem solving and I that's just a very attractive way to communicate yes because when we don't do that and to me this is also very relevant you're a parent and You' have an issue at school how do I talk to the teacher or me and my partner are disagreeing about who's family to go to for the holidays right the truth is when you're arguing in Conflict from a place of me against you you're actually not able to talk about a problem each person unconsciously is just trying to prove to the other person that they're a good person that's what you're really doing you're like I'm a good person no I'm a good person see my point so you see that I'm a good person so you actually can't solve anything when you start out with the Baseline and sometimes just these words are helpful to say like hey let me just start by saying we're really on the same team even the in-laws example like Hey we're on the same team like I know we're trying to figure out whose family to go to for the holidays it seems conflictual but we're actually on the team us like we're both on team us and we both care about making the other person in general happy and we care about ourselves being happy like we actually have a lot of the same values let's just try to keep that in mind as we work through whose family we go to it really sets the stage for Effective working through of that problem while staying connected in this important relationship what happens when there's no repair it's a really good question I hate fearmongering and parenting guidance to me it's all out there it's like you need to do this thing or you're going to mess up your kid forever like I I always try to stay so far away from that parents are doing the best they can can with the information they have so I'm going to share some information that I hope for parents acts as a kind of extra motivation that's how I use it to repair but not like oh my goodness you know fear mongering it's really not from that place let's go back to the situation with my son I'm in the kitchen he's in his room I'm upset he's definitely upset too what will happen if I don't repair or I think a lot of parents think I'm not going to bring it up again like it would just make them upset why would I do that why would I bring it up he came out a half an hour later it seems like everything's fine now that we know the event happened that's just the reality the event happened we can't change that right okay so how did my son's body register the event because also how we register something happens it's now kind of imprinted in our body well kids are oriented by attachment which means more than anything else in the world they need to figure out how to stay close and loved by their parents because that's actually how they get food and shelter and water and protection and all the things they need to grow and so In This Moment for my son the adult who is his most important protector became this threat became scary right my caregiver became a scary parent and so that's very disregulated overwhelming for a kid it puts them into a state of distress so my kid's body has already stored that sense of lack of safety and distress so the question for him now is how do I get back to feeling safe because I need to kind of feel safe to go about the world to learn everything I need to learn and to thrive so one way of a kid feeling safe again which is amazing is repair but let's say I don't repair a kid has no choice but to go from a physiological threatened place to have to get back to a physiological place of safety and they have two coping mechanisms at their own devices that they will always use because they have to in an Adaptive way get back to feeling safe and they're either self-blame or self-doubt self-blame essentially my son is in his room what is wrong with me I'm awful I'm unlovable I'm not enough I'm too much something is wrong with me I make bad things happen and as awful as that sounds cuz we're all like oh I wonder want my kid ever think that it's actually very adaptive like I always say it's very crafty for a kid because as long as they can internalize the Badness as long as they can say I am bad they can maintain that their parents who really represent the world around them is good and you actually need to believe that the world is good to like function as a kid and go on right and I I love the Ronald fabrin quote to me it's just so poignant for a kid it is better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than to live in a world ruled by the devil so they internalize the Badness so they can preserve us as good adaptive when they're young and yet to me after all my years of seeing so many adults in therapy this still is one of adults core beliefs when they struggle when they have something that's hard their selft talk is something's wrong with me I'm not enough or I'm too much I'm unlovable something's broken in me and you know what's so important for adults to know is that is not an original thought of an adult that is a story we wrote in our bodies when we were kids when we were left alone following distressing events that went unrepaired when distressing events Go unrepaired kids use self-blame to regulate and the other thing they use is self-doubt which is like I find really compelling to think about because it really urges me to go talk to my kid self-doubt sounds like this I don't think that really happened I must have overreacted I must be misremembering I wonder if another kid would have thought that was a big deal I can't really trust my feelings or my perception of things and if I think about the other kind of form of selft talk that plagues so many adults it's that it's wait did that really happen I'm going to call five of my friends I wonder if they would feel the way I would feel cuz I just don't know it's the legacy of a lack of trust that actually started from an Adaptive place so you could separate from this very painful reality and just keep going but as adults holds us back in every way and so when I think about those two coping mechanisms if I don't repair with my kid self-doubt and self blame will be wired in their body I I mean this because I don't I want to get away from the heaviness of this to me I feel like a magician with my kids when I repare I'm like I am going in and I am snatching out of your body self-blame self-doubt nope I'm not letting you write that story and I actually have the power to help you write a different story to write the story of every relationship has hard moments when other people treat you poorly it is not your fault and yes that really did happen you can trust your perceptions and in your safest and most loving relationships you can expect the other person to take responsibility for their behavior and to come and try to reconnect that is the story I I help right in my child's body when I repair I'm now thinking about all the times I lost my with my kid and did not go back and repair is is he like permanently screwed no no this is such a good point so you're getting to where I was about to go I know me too I me too we hear these and we're like that's interesting right it's like so like close and you're like I'm G to end this podcast right now like I just got to like go over bear the million people in my life okay here's the thing it is never ever too late this again is that magical power and when parents say but do I bring it up like it was years ago or parents say to me it's not like one thing like now when I look back on my kids life I feel like it was a pattern of things like whenever they were upset I kind of sent them to their room I really wasn't showing up in a more Curious understanding way I feel like I missed out on years of building a relationship with my kid no we can repair for moments we can repair for things that happened a long time ago we can repair for patterns right and what you do when you repair and then I'll share a script for how we might do this is this is my image Dan like our kids right like they're all of us our bodies are like books they're like stories with various chapters and some chapters are very painful and what we actually get to do when we repair for something that happened a long time ago is it's like and I'm I'm going to cry like our kid with us gets to reopen that chapter and we get to like go in with them and we can't cross out what happened but we actually get to like add another piece to that chapter like we actually sure it has a different ending and when you do this you actually change the way the memory lives in the body repair is actually memory changing okay and it actually even though it sounds like woo woo it makes perfect sense because it has the same impact as therapy right we know from research that memory is not the recollection of events it's actually the recollection of events coupled with every other time you've remembered that event which means when you take an event that was initially stored with confusion and fear and aloneness and then layer on remembering that event in a safer relationship with explanation and understanding and connection and curiosity and love and coherence which is what we give our kids when we help them understand you actually change the memory because you change the story of the event and that's all our memories really are is our stories and so what you're saying and everyone listening like I hope you hear me saying I'm excited for you is oh my goodness it is not too late you're about to have one of the best moments you're ever going to have with your kids you get to say something like hey I listen to this thing I learned something new first of all we don't say that to our kids not I learned something new today and I really want to tell you that can be a lot of things I remember when I yelled at you a couple weeks ago or hey I think there were a lot of moments where I yelled or where I just kind of sent you to your room and I wasn't able to see that you were hurting I wasn't able to see that you weren't giving me a hard time you were having a hard time and I can't take all those moments back but I want to let you know that I wish I handled them differently and I want to handle those things differently going forward and if you ever want to talk to me about any of those moments I I'll listen I'll listen to understand I won't listen to reut I won't listen to prove I'll actually listen because they matter and you matter and I really would put money and I'm not like a better but like I would put money on someone being like that was one of the most meaningful moments I've had with my kid in the last 20 years the idea that it's too late like I always want to look people and I'm not like a Shaker of people I promise but I want to like shake them like oh my goodness it's too late like your timing is impeccable your timing is impeccable this can all happen right now do you think this applies to interpersonal Dynamics among grown-ups 100% all of my ideas about kids and I don't think people know this actually come from the work I did with adults so I actually haven't seen kids in therapy for very long time really since grad school for years in my private practice I worked with adolescence I worked with adults and I did a ton of coup's therapy and I even did work in Consulting with organizations because to me again a family system a leadership system it's all a system that's about kind of building sturdy leaders and so what struck me is all the things I know kind of really does change the course of an adult's life like I was like why don't we just reverse engineer that information to parents so you can like get that information to kids right away right that's actually how I've come up with all my ideas about parenting so yes to me the through line is very very clear and here's something I was thinking about this actually happened in a couple's therapy session that I was in with a couple I was seeing and we were talking about something about repair and the husband said to his wife you know some version of I don't know if you remember but I'm thinking about this night early on after you had was their second baby and you really needed help and I was basically just yelling you about like how much work I had the next day and how I couldn't deal with it their kids were now like 10 and 12 okay and he was like I just I think about that a lot and like I've never said anything but like that was not cool and like that was not the type of partner or dad I want to be and what she said to me Dan was so interesting in the course of this couple's therapy she said you've been thinking about that for 10 years she was so touched by that you've been holding that in your mind okay you couldn't say something but you've been thinking about me in that moment and like you've been feeling bad about it for 10 years like that's so sacred when someone holds us in their mind so yes when we think about adult relationships think about a friend calling you now and saying I think about that time I didn't invite you to that dinner eight years ago and maybe you're not thinking about it anymore but I have and like I'm just I'm sorry I never said that to you to me almost like I don't mean this but almost like the longer the distance the more it would like impress me as an adult like wow like you really care about me you really care about our relationship you've been holding that and so yes all of this applies to Partnerships to friendships to really tricky moments you've had with your in-laws to that thing with your colleague it's all the same stuff are there ever times where repair is not possible repair is something we offer someone something that is like not a component of repair is when we think we're doing a repair but it's really a request for reassurance so that's a repair that's like hey I did this and I'm sorry it's okay now right or is is that okay like are we good you know do you forgive me then all of a sudden you're like wait I thought you were offering me this moment of connection and now I feel like you're asking for something from me so that Never Lands well I actually think it's why I focus so much on self-repair the reason most of us after an apology have a reassurance request is because we haven't actually accessed our own self-repair and our own goodness so we're looking for someone else to give it to us and people feel that and and then it kind of totally changes the game when you're actually really able to repair with yourself you're able to offer a repair for someone so then I guess the question is is it ever too late to offer a repair I think it's a different question You' be like well no what's the impact going to be on someone else we don't know and and I say this in the Ted talk after I go through this exercise where I actually bring people through an experience of imagining getting a repair from their actual parents or reading a letter if their parents you know are both deceased I really don't know many people who don't have some reaction to that and they would say because they're human and it makes sense like yeah that wouldn't be a 180 it's not like I'm like oh everything's good now let's go get some tea and you know hang out no but I I I really do think it hits somewhere especially if it's a true repair without that reassurance request but there are times where you've done something potentially so harmful or somebody's done something so harmful to you where repair may not be on the menu yeah well I guess they could offer a repair how I want to receive that whether I've developed boundaries that I feel like I need to protect myself yep 100% 100% nobody is under any pressure if they are offered a repair to open themselves up to receiving it sometimes continuing to have a boundary to protect yourself is really really adaptive and important 100% And I think a lot of people's realities are probably somewhere in the middle but I guess the point is there's a difference between offering repair it's never too late to offer a repair even if there's you I don't know two adults out there who one of them is listening thinking like I am going to call that person and like I kind of am not expecting something in response because repair is such a powerful impact on the repair Giver it really does it feels like you're finally acting in alignment with your values and to me there's nothing in life that feels as good as when you act in alignment with your values and when we act in alignment with our values it's lovely it's like icing on the cake when someone else Peres Us in that way and sees it but there's also benefit to the individual and just acting in alignment in that way and then yeah it's a let down when someone might even understandably say some version of like yeah I don't want to have this conversation like yeah I still don't want you in my life or I I can't hear that right now but I actually still think for the repair Giver it's a meaningful moment coming up Dr Becky Kennedy talks about whether her trademark phrase good inside represents a thesis about The Human Condition whether punishment is ever appropriate and a key tool you can use in moments of tension which she refers to as the MGI want to tell you about a product that I recently tried and really really genuinely enjoyed as we all know the fall season can be super busy you might be looking for uh something 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all of us that we get ethically sourced products so we love butcher box the holiday season is made better with butcher box for a limited time they're offering our listeners turkey free in your first box plus $2 off your first order sign up today at butcherbox.com sl10 and use code 10% to get this [Music] deal quick reminder don't miss the on Theo challenge a 7-Day meditation challenge designed to help you bring mindfulness into your daily life it kicks off on November 13th but you can join now download the 10% happier app today wherever you get your apps and get started for free let's go back to something you talked about earlier actually it's come up a couple times and it's the name of your book the name of your podcast good inside is that a claim about The Human Condition writ large yeah I mean I never thought of myself as a philosopher I'm like the single most practical person in the universe this is actually happening when we went to Ted everyone who knows me is like good luck Becky like people talk about really smart things there and you're going to be like I don't understand I have to say I sat at a table with you and Adam Grant and Emanuel AO and a bunch of people and we were talking about big smart you and you were more than holding your own you were holding court so I don't know what those people were why they were saying that to you well like I don't hold myself as like a a philosoph on on humankind but maybe I do because his stuff is all related so yes but there's so much Nuance here and things we collapse things so fast in our society right so yes I do believe people are inherently good inside I would take that side any day I think when babies are born into the world there is inherent goodness in them I do and I just want to be clear like that is not an excuse for bad behavior that is not at all it's not like I'm like oh my kid is good inside they're smacking their brother like well such a good kid of course not right and it doesn't mean that I am a proponent of permissive parenting again these things get conflated so fast yes I believe people are good inside that they have inherent good identity and to me what's really exciting about that besides the fact that I believe it is it creates this Gap okay someone's good inside they just did this bad thing why is my kid who's good inside lying to my face why is my kid who's good inside smacking their sister why is my partner who's good inside so distant and so dismissive of everything I say when we have a gap to me we can actually activate our curiosity and to me like activating curiosity is the key to solving all problems and I can be really curious to people okay why is someone who's good doing this bad thing and if I can hold both those truths at once I can actually kind of approach the problem from a very very different framework than when I which is what we do unconsciously when I use someone's bad behavior as an indication of their in some ways inherently bad identity now all of a sudden of course I have an enemy now all of a sudden that guy's an and my child's a sociopath and guess what then we interact with people from that framework which leads us to really really awful places so in some ways there's a self-interested case for taking the good inside worldview oh my goodness more anything I'm like a very practical efficient person I am so yes I think it's true but I also think it's simply like much more effective of a worldview than at least the worldview we've been given about kids you know which is the worldview that no one says but is underlying what most of us are told to do with kids punish them time out ignore them reward them sticker chart no one ever says those point of views are based on the idea that kids are bad inside nobody says that but they are and the fact that they don't say that to me actually makes makes those ideas way more Insidious because you can't actually understand the framework with which they're based punishment is never appropriate I'm not a big fan of like such you know rigidity but I'm GNA answer the question I want to answer if that's okay okay so like I might if you don't answer the question I want you to answer I might come back to it but go for you can come you can come back to it I like as you know from that dinner I like a I like some intellectual sparring that's true okay that's so to me let's ground this in like a situation so I don't know what would your kid do or what would my kid do that you're like is a punishment not appropriate yeah so I'm thinking with my son you know if it takes me five times to ask him to do something simple I might say look there's going to be a consequence if I have to ask you again and you might lose five minutes for your iPad time or something like that great great great and again this is just how we've all been raised to raise our kids this is just like everywhere so we've all been so influenced by by so many ideas that I believe are false that are like almost underlying that okay so to me the thing that's missing about a punishment is again if I'm one for Effectiveness is to some degree I have to believe okay my kid's not listening and if I kind of give him a punishment if I basically deliver him negative feelings after that will de facto the next time help him listen and then we'll be having better listen in our house okay first of all most people I talk to who are on a schedule of a lot of punishments are like yeah that's like not really happening just like I don't know keep saying punishments to my kids it's not really changing but I don't even understand the timeline of it like okay something happened so that my kid isn't listening like there's a reason before then the not listening happens and I'm delivering a kind of random consequence after which means like on some level I assume the next time the best way to help my kid change behavior is he's going to be not listening and he's be like wait a second wait a second if I don't listen in 10 minutes I'm going to get my iPad time shortened and I don't want that so knowing that I am going to listen like I don't know about your kid I I just I don't even know most adults who think that way wait a second if I yell at my husband here he will be upset so let me take a deep breath and actually talk to him in a more respectful way punishments after to me just don't even make sense as a way to change what would happen before so I'm like why don't we think about what's happening before plus when you punish a kid more than anything else a kid will not remember what we did or what we say they will remember the version of themselves we reflect back to them like in child development and I feel like something every parent needs to know we're a kid's mirror we show them who they are and that is how they form their identity and so often I'm not saying this with your son kids who kind of have quote a lot of bad behavior over and over basically their set of interactions shows them you're a bad kid you're a bad kid go to your room you're selfish we even say these things to these kids and like in some ways we're reinforcing an identity that we want our kid to move away from that that also doesn't make sense so the reason I don't think punishment makes sense isn't because I'm a softy like no one who knows me would say I'm soft that's the last word someone would say it just not only threatens your relationship with your kid threatens their self-esteem but also as a pragmatist it just like actually doesn't even work to change Behavior so again if we get to that Gap I do something to me this is my go to strategy the idea of good inside to action it's called MGI most generous interpretation what is my most generous interpretation of why my son isn't listening most punishments are based on an LGI we don't realize why would we punish a kid because we're like they could listen they just don't want to do it they don't respect me right it's very easy to come up with the least generous interpretation but if we come up with the most generous interpretation which is a muscle we need to build most people when they start they're like I couldn't even come up with one doesn't mean you're cold it probably means no one used a most generous interpretation with you when you were struggling but I might come up with this there's something about leaving and going to school that is hard I might say to myself okay if I was messing around in my house and my husband's like Becky let's leave Becky let's leave Becky let's leave I asked you five times let's leave why would I not listen I'd be like number one I would just find that really annoying okay number two he's probably yelling on the other side of the house while he's like on his phone I don't know maybe the state of our relationship isn't like that great in that moment maybe I actually don't know what leaving and there could be so many things for a kid maybe they actually don't understand the order of operations like where's my stuff maybe they do feel like hey my parents on their phone the whole time they're totally disconnected to me they're just kind of barking orders maybe they feel like I hate school maybe they feel like I have no control and agency in any area of my life so at least this is one area where I can push back to just feel like my own independent person and I just want to say none of these things which come from being curious means the behavior is okay but if we don't understand where a problem Behavior comes from we cannot successfully intervene to change the behavior it would be like trying to teach someone how to make a basketball shot without understanding like is it their positioning is it their hands is it that they're not strong enough you have to understand the behavior we confuse this too especially in America an attempt to understand a behavior feels like it's condoning a behavior it's it's bizarre it's just not the same thing if you want to teach a kid how to read you have to understand if it's a phonics issue or a frustration tolerance issue it doesn't mean it's okay that they're not reading it means you're trying to help them read so the reason I don't like punishments is it does none of that it basically says I think you're a bad kid I'm not actually teaching you a skill because if I have a most generous interpretation Dan for example I might say it's actually just overwhelming to get to school I might say to my kid mornings have been hard I always ask you to put things on you're not listening but here's the thing we're on the same team you're a good kid I'm going to do something I'm just going to like put on a little chart by our front door and I'm going to also put your socks in like a basket by the door cuz I know sometimes it's hard to remember I'm going to do it for mine too and it's just going to say water bottle put it in your backpack socks shoes out the door by 7:45 we're going to see if that helps and the other thing I'm going to do I'm going to say this to myself is I'm gonna actually put my phone down for the 20 minutes in the morning I'm gonna leave it in my room I'm actually like talk to my kid be present I'm going to see how those things go and none of that happens when you punish a kid and I think it's easy to say oh so it's because I'm on my phone that my kid isn't listening to me that's just like the most again least generous interpretation even of this approach it's it's actually something very different which is my kids Behavior has a reason and I'm the leader of the family and so if I want to help my kid figure things out and change the system leadership always comes from the top and so doing that little bit of reflection strengthens your relationship with your kid and I would bet within and I really mean this the change is so fast people are like my kid started listening in two days like literally I took your listening Workshop 2 days later they were listening about like everything it's just it can be so fast when the approach actually Mak sense let me just see if I can restate that um your approach to getting kids to listen to you is start with the MGI the most generous interpretation and then engineer a solution from there yes that's exactly right engineer a solution that's always based in the thought that like I have a good kid so something must just feel off we often don't think about kids as humans we don't we're like the same needs right cuz you were witnessing in my house if I was like sitting on the couch reading a book when my three kids were finally asleep which like never happens but let's say I had some glorious evening and it happened and then my husband was like hey Becky can you go get me a glass of water in the kitchen and he was sitting on the couch too if I was like oh like no like I'm reading my book or something and he was like you have a listening problem and I'm shortening your iPad time later today I feel like you I don't imagine you Dan being like Becky I think you have a listening problem I think you'd be like your husband's an like that's I think that's what you would say to me like that's gaslighting if anyone has a problem he has a problem I mean you didn't do what he wanted you to do I guess you didn't comply but it's prettyy aggressive to say that you have a listening problem meanwhile had me and my husband very close that day and I don't know I was talking about something and I felt like he was listening and he would put his phone down and he's like wow that sounds hard instead of saying like it's not a big deal or right and then he asked me like I I don't know I bet I would do it because I felt close to him right we listen to people because we feel close to them or because we feel scared of them it's the only reason we listen to people and we do not want to wire fear next to love for a million bajillion reasons with our kids so the only good option we have for our kids to listen is that they feel connected to us and we have to work to make that happen so no fear is ever good sometimes I feel like it's better be fear than love no no I don't feel that ever but there are you know once a month like and this is probably just me being shitty but once a month once every quarter I don't know once in a blue moon I feel like being a little Old Testament can wake my son up out of just being super stubborn and non-compliant I think sometimes it's not that deep and they need to and this is maybe delusion so I'm saying it out loud for you to take pot shots at it most of the time yes there's interesting psychological occurrence the MGI makes a ton of sense I'm going to use that but sometimes it's not that deep they're just testing their limits or there's something going on with his mom and he's messing with her and manipulating her and I'm just like dude in the car now yeah I mean first of all nothing about my parenting approach nothing about good inside again is like soft it's not like always like wait but like let me use is the most generous interpretation like no I would say our approach is 50% connection through validation and empathy and 50% connection through boundaries real boundaries sturdy boundaries firm boundaries that come from embodying your appropriate Authority I think we misunderstand fear interactions from boundar interactions most of the time we put fear into our kids it really comes from a place of desperation as parent and kids smell that like when we yell go to the car like we're really like I don't know what to do like I really don't have anything left I'm feeling kind of desperate right now and so the first of all like again not All Is Lost like no one everyone like says stuff to their kids me too and I don't mean to insinuate there's always time for processing I actually think most parents don't understand what real boundaries are it's probably one of the biggest thing we help parents with because boundaries have to be an equal part to Parenting as like all the kind of quote warm stuff to me boundaries also are from a place of warmth because they're from a place of protection well give give an example because I have a feeling boundaries are at play here well I really was I I found it very compelling what you said about why my son or any kid wouldn't want to put their shoes on to go to school or to leave the house for any number of things I found that MGI to be very compelling there but sometimes it's like okay you're on the sixth or seventh time and maybe he's got some sort of ancient Vendetta he's acting out against his mom who's traditionally the person doing the ask or whatever usually he is a good listener so this isn't like a hugely chronic problem but once in a while he's just not listening to her and my interpretation maybe it's the LGI In This Moment is that he's just with her and I'm just like I don't yell I'm just like dude do it now yeah I don't understand why are we asking you this much not like you need any permission but like yeah like full permission I say that to my kids too we need to do this now come on this has to happen now we can talk talk about it later we've got to move this along yes but I think there's some fear there well I think he's a little bit more scared of me than he is of her so then he listens to me well then look that could be separate right like a lot of women and to me again I think that what's helpful for women is the way I model this I'm like probably not a traditionally feminine in the way that like I actually really feel like I can embody my authority and like Express a boundary a lot of women have been socialized for generations to not be able to do that because in some ways their worth was defined by their lack of boundaries and their total taking care of everyone else so it's hard to re access that as a mom so gender difference is definitely could be out play but like here's an example where I'm thinking like boundaries versus fear first of all I just want to define a boundary because I think it's so powerful in every area of our life a boundary is something we tell someone we will do and it requires the other person to do nothing that is really important and if you think about a time you're setting a boundary if it would require anyone else to do anything it is not a boundary it is a request and we make requests of people all the time but it is not a boundary and the times we tend to get most frustrated with our kids and probably like induce some fear because then we end up like exploding with rage is a time I think we think we're setting a boundary and we're actually making a request and in that way we're actually asking our kid to do our job for us and we're not actually embodying our Authority in this situation so like an example like get off the couch get off I we don't jump on the couch get off the couch I said get off the couch I said get off the couch or I'm going to whatever the thing is that's scary versus get off the couch can you please get off the couch whatever I say the first time my kid doesn't hey look I'm seeing you're having a hard time getting off the couch I'm going to walk over to you and if by the time I get there you're not off the couch I will put my hand around you I'm going to put you on the floor sweetie and I'll show you a safer place you can jump that's a boundary I never let myself get to the point where I'm exploding because in a way I often think about this like I'm watching my kid jump on the couch I'm now watching them not able to cooperate and now I'm asking them can you do the thing you're showing me you're unable to do like it it would be like knowing my kid runs into the city streets being like can you not run into the city streets like I would just make sure they didn't run into the city streets that's a boundary and it doesn't come from Fear it actually comes from protecting my kid for all I know they're jumping on the couch right near a glass table and they like fall like it actually comes from love that to me is what's missing we think love Is Just oh you really want to jump on the couch and I understand that is but that is an incomplete parenting strategy if it's not coupled with actual firm boundaries they're equally as important this is all incredibly helpful um to me as a as a parent let me just go to this boundary request thing so how does that apply to The Perennial parenting problem of put your shoes on we got to go or we got to go whether your shoes are on or not and you're refusing to leave like that's these are requests so how do you not blow up when those requests are not being complied with great so I think that's actually really important because when we recognize it's a request first of all usually we make requests of people when actually safety isn't an issue when safety is an issue we set a boundary like we put our seat belt on our kit because like they have to even if they're screaming right when it's a request I mean I'm just going to say this kids don't always listen to requests and the truth is I don't know one adult who when they have a kid who's 25 is going to be bragging to their friends my kid is so compliant he listens to everything everyone asks of him he's so amazing like it's so not what we actually feel proud of like we say my kid is so independent and assertive and they can speak up for themselves well you can't raise kids to be compliant and subservient and expect them to be confident and assertive and also if you want kids to be confident and assertive you can't expect them to listen all the time so some degree we have to set expectations there's to be times when my kids don't want to put their shoes on and it doesn't mean they're disrespectful like I always think it's so centering of ourselves like my kid is not putting on their shoes because they don't respect me as a person like it's a pretty Grand interpretation they're not putting it on I don't know they don't want to go to school that day they got distracted they you know or like the times we're sometimes late for a meeting when we don't want to be late it's usually not because we don't respect someone it's CU like I don't know got in the way so what I would say there to avoid that explosion is we can't wait until we're in the moment where we're about to explode and expect ourselves to like act in some amazingly magnanimous way can't be like well what do I do instead of explode I'd be like I don't know get through it that's like the best I got to be honest the better question is what can I do outside the moment to limit the likelihood that we get into that moment again that to me feels like a very compelling question and that is when I'd have some type of family meeting with my son right family meetings to me are one of the most underutilized strategies and I've done this to my kids starting at such a young age people like you think your kid can understand that it's a question that bugs me the most I'm saying first of all I want my kid to understand things so I'm going to act as if they do and then they'll start understanding them earlier but kids always understood when they're being treated with respect they always do like just like honestly we could be in a foreign country not being able to speak the language and we would know who was coming up to us in a magnanimous way and who wasn't giving us the time of day language doesn't matter so what I'd say there is I'd approach son outside the moment and I'd start like this hey you know mornings have been a show right mornings have been a disaster whichever language is you know the language you use in your home mornings have been a disaster and like what generally happens is I ask you put on your shoes and I probably ask again and I ask again and then eventually I yell and you kind of yell back and like we both kind of like yell and maybe one of us cries and then we're like have a horrible car to school and then I say I love you and like I don't know I just feel like we can do that better so here's the thing though that you might not have heard from me I actually think your my teammate in this and I'm thinking about how we do things at work and when things happen at work especially over and over that don't go well we have a meeting of all key stakeholders and the reason we do that is because all key stakeholders have good ideas and you know you're a key stakeholder here I'm a key stakeholder and so I want to have a meeting not right now let's actually schedule it and time that good okay so it's going be Sunday night okay and we're going to do that okay first of all already you've changed the problem I mean again think about like if someone came up to you that way you're like it's completely different from how we usually approach someone when we're in conflict and then the way I'd start a meeting and there is a little bit of a structure to this is I'd say okay so here's how we're going to do this meeting the goal is to think about how to make mornings just a little more smoother how to go from asking you to put on your shoes five times to one maybe two times even I'd go for three how we're going to get there and the first thing we're going to do is brainstorm ideas about what can make it easier I'm gonna have ideas you're going to have ideas at first all ideas are good ideas and I'm going to write all them down and Dan you would have to go with the pad writing something down when you're in conflict with someone it like immediately makes things 90% better cuz again like like imagine if you're in a fight with your wife about something you're really mad about and she's like one second I just want to write down everything you say it like really matters I understand everything I don't know about you i' be like we're good like you're the best wife ever like done right so write everything down and a little trick I always say to parents is you start with number one and make it something ridiculous that will make the other person laugh and so you're now holding the whole thing in playfulness which always makes problem solving more effective so I would start maybe here by saying okay I have an amazing idea I think we can just get this like major trampoline and like I don't know like you're going to jump on it once and like you don't even need the car you don't even need shoes and it's just like gonna take you right to school I'm just gonna I don't know I don't know I all ideas are good ideas right and then I literally write down one major trampoline I don't know something like that okay and then number two usually after you lead with that your kid will share something it's like you're connecting there's playfulness they'll share something and maybe they say I don't have to put in my shoes to go to school and like what what does a parent want to say back like that's absurd but you don't say that you're say okay right down once you've written down an idea that they think you'll reject already you're building What I Call Connection Capital the more connection Capital you build the more you have to draw down on and we draw down on connection Capital every time we ask someone to do something they don't want to do in a marriage at work and so as parents we are very very big connection Capital withdrawers which means we have to be bigger connection Capital depositors it's just the math and so then by number three usually you can get to something reasonable set an alarm that goes off 10 minutes before I have to leave and when the alarm goes off we put our shoes on okay number four any other ideas try to get to like seven ideas we have a shoe race you know me and you and it's whoever can get them on faster kids always love races it's again kind of collaborative and fun instead of annoying maybe another idea you'd say is hey I know this sounds ridiculous maybe be like how is this related but I'm going to write down this idea of dad doesn't have his phone for the 10 minutes before you leave so we can actually get good time together because I don't know I probably wouldn't want to like put on my shoes and leave if I hadn't really spent time with someone okay and then you review the list and be like okay number one trampoline you know what sweetie that was my personal go-to it's just it's probably a couple years out so it's gonna I'm just have to cross that off okay number two you know never put on your shoes and this is where a boundary is helpful and this is one of my favorite lines as a parent my number one job is to keep you safe I don't know if I've said that to you but it is like I like when you're happy but my number one job is to keep you safe I take that very seriously and actually I love you so much that I will always prioritize it making you safe over making you happy even if you're upset with me and so like leaving for school without shoes it's just not something I could do because that's my number one job so I'm just going to have to like uh put a extra number two okay number three and like you can see by the time you get through this and like this whole thing really does just take as long as I'm modeling like it's like a family meeting is usually like five minutes it'll feel so good with your kid you will actually come up with something and then the next day you actually have this idea will it be magic will you call me and be like oh my goodness like my every problem is solved this morning morning was so smooth probably not but I also wouldn't be surprised if you were like that literally reduced friction in the morning by 95% coming up Dr Becky talks about applying her MGI or most generous interpretation to adults and whether she is personally able to practice what she preaches in her own life Crossing off your dream day checklist it's time to get your smile wedding ready with bite clear aligners start by ordering your atome impression kit today for only $14.95 bite clear aligners are doctor directed and delivered to your door treatment costs thousands 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jump on the DM and I wrot back like I'm not but like I I just would love to know what made you like what made you think that I work at like McKenzie or something you know and they were like your book was the number one book recommended in my management consulting slack group that's what he wrote me and I wrote you know what I take that back I am a Management Consultant I am um because not only does MGI apply to me the idea of boundaries to me the idea of two things are true the ability to hold multiple truths at once to me the idea of being a shame detective noticing when shame has really taken over from someone in which case we have to totally change course and how we talk to them it applies to Human Relationships so I happen to love right now at this point in my life to think about relationships between parent and kids but yes the ideas are everywhere so MGI is right the most powerful tool in any relationship because what it really does is it forces us to see the good person under their not so good behavior and if you're in a relationship with a person you want to be in a relationship with again I would never say the most generous interpretation of this person who's abusive to me is that they're actually you know you know in pain and so it's okay that they talk to me that way no of course not right we have to like consider ourselves in our needs but often mg gets is very useful in relationships you do really care about and our safe relationships right so okay I said to my partner um you're home late again you said you'd come home for bath okay and my partner says back to me someone's got to work around here okay let's just take that interaction if both Partners paused and the MGI muscle let me be clear has to be built after the fact before it is accessible to us in the moment right so let's say that night I'm looking back and I'm saying okay my partner said you said you'd be home for bath and you weren't like you lied or you know something what is my most generous interpretation my least generous interpretation is my partner like does not understand how busy I am and like does not appreciate my contribution to the family my most generous interpretation would probably be my partner feels really overwhelmed doing bath time alone like I could cry at like the softening like oh oh okay and then the opposite when I say back you know someone has to work around here and you know someone has to make money and then say okay I do love my partner and that was not a good moment what's my most generous interpretation um I think he felt attacked by me in that moment and like I wasn't seeing the way they contribute to this family it probably felt like I was saying you're bad dad you're a bad mom okay like if you actually think about what would happen after like and I really mean this like you could go to a partner and say hey I'm thinking back to that interaction and just just pause a second because I'm trying to actually see it from your perspective when I said to you you're not home you lied I like I wonder if it almost felt like I was like saying like you're a bad person like you don't care about this family because I I could understand that's totally not what I meant because then when I think about what you said back it almost is more responsive to that like th this actually is a lot of what happens in like couple's work right same thing you know in an office why is this person keeping late like to approach them with the most generous interpretation would be very different than an LGI LGI you fro that person at work being like hey you're always late like this cannot continue and like this is totally unacceptable I'm going to dock your pay I don't know most gener interpretation would say hey I I really do believe you're dedicated to this company and you want to do a good job and like I feel like something's getting in the way of showing up here on time and I'm your teammate and I would just love to you know I'd love to talk that out with you let's figure that out together like I think we all know which is going to be you know productive based on using that tool this has been incredibly useful conversation in many ways um I have two questions I always ask at the end one is um is there something I should have asked but didn't o um um I guess a question that the first thing came to my mind is Becky how often do you use actually all these things in your own family and I'm glad you asked that question because I got to share with everyone like not always my husband always is like um and you met him at that dinner he's always like I always want to tag your personal Instagram and your Dr Becky Instagram because I'm always like you should watch This Woman's videos they really help you because this thing you're doing with our kid is not so effective so like my kids do not have Dr Becky as a and I thank God for that like that would be so awkward for them and so we're all just trying to do some of this stuff some of the time okay so I answered that question what's your what's your second yeah just to just to say in support of you I uh many people in my life point out where there's a Delta between what I talk about on Instagram or on this podcast and the way I actually behave so that's right what people don't know is all these public figures they they're publicly working through the things that are hard for them things that they've mastered and I'm the first to share that yes well said second question is just can you please remind everybody of you know what whatever resources you're putting out in the world that we should know about your Ted Talk your book your podcast please just plug away okay yeah there's so many things and I love connecting with parents and hearing their stories so please do reach out so Instagram is quick follow Dr Becky atg good inside um can find me on threads can find me on Twitter all the places um good inside.com is really the hub for everything else right I I love Instagram but to me I would say parents deserve um they deserve better than random tips on social media it's the most important job so what I really set out to do and my biggest project is creating um a membership for parents it's really um a whole platform that can give you deeper Dives when you need them most of the time we don't need that we need kind of regularly accessible quick scripts and strategies and kind of things to help stop the spiral um and I really am aiming to be a parents co-pilot from you know 0 to 18 I feel like we really deserve that support and so our membership is at good inside.com free weekly emails atg goody.com my own podcast my TED talk you can find all of it there thank you Becky thanks Dan thanks again to Dr Becky big fan newly converted fan but an ENT one she's really fantastic thank you to you for listening go give us a rating or a review please that would be super helpful and thanks most of all to everybody who worked so hard on this show 10% happier is produced by Gabrielle Zuckerman Justine Davey Lauren Smith and Tara Anderson DJ cashmir is our senior producer Marissa Schneiderman is our senior editor Kevin oconnell is our director of audio and post production and Kimmy regler is our executive producer Alicia Macky leads our marketing and Tony Madar is our director of podcasts our fearless leader Nick thorburn of islands rot our theme we'll see you all on Wednesday for a brand new episode episode from the legendary executive coach and former Adventure capitalist practicing Buddhist and very good friend of mine and frequent flyer on the show Jerry Colona with some deep and provocative success [Music] strategies if you like 10% happier and I hope you do uh you can listen early and AD free right now by joining Wonder Plus in the Wonder app or on Apple podcasts Prime members can listen adree on Amazon music before you go tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey wonder.com survey we made USAA insurance for veterans like James when he found out how much USAA was helping members save he said it's time to switch we'll help you find the right coverage at the right price USAA What You're Made Of we're made for restrictions apply hey there I know that life is full of challenges but that's not necessarily A Bad Thing a stoic philosopher one said that no man is more unhappy than he who never faces adversity for he is not permitted to prove himself I'm Ryan Holliday the bestselling author and host of The Daily stoic podcast a podcast where I break down the ancient teachings from the stoic philosophers so you can apply their thinking to the problems of modern life on the daily stoic you'll find everything from insightful conversations to people like Matthew mccon and Gary ve on how they've used stoicism in their own life to short 10-minute teachings on how to deal with fear and build better habits ancient philosophy doesn't have to be this inaccess ible and practical thing on the daily stoic you can learn how to bring the 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Channel: Ten Percent Happier

Views: 3,577

Keywords: Dan Harris, Meditation, Mindfulness, Health & Fitness, Dharma, mental, health, anxiety, buddha, buddhism, meditate, podcast, interview, science, self help, fitness, self aware, adults, men, women, practical tips for mental health, practical tips for mindfulness, self help mental health, mindfulness for beginners, mindfulness interview, meditation interview, meditation teacher, mindfulness teacher, anxiety meditation, anxiety mindfulness, panic attack, tv, dr becky, beckey, kenndy

Id: XY4Rub-1s70

Length: 79min 39sec (4779 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 14 2023