How To Pick A Niche You’ll Love

what's up everybody tim connolly here and we've got a good episode today we've got another hot seat another audience member daryl oberg is joining us so let's just you know check it [Music] daryl what's up hi so i'm happy to be in the show here and what i'm really hoping to learn here is how i can offer better b2b solutions to clients because i've done a lot of b2c and it's really different but when i've investigated some of the larger ticket items they're longer sales cycles and they're b2b and i've worked in them but it's kind of new to me okay yeah i love b2b don't like doing b2c marketing i've never enjoyed it i've done i've done quite a bit of it in my you know two decade career but i've never been that a big fan of it because of how fickle consumers are it's like one day they really love your product and then the next day they love someone else's product yeah i found the same thing and you have to have systems in place to nurture them so it's got similarities to b to b but they but their motives are different in a lot of ways in b to b there's the emotional under there but they're not as revenue driven so it's a completely different mindset but yeah i found b to c like they can just kind of disappear for a while and then they come back and it's hard to keep track right right so let's let's get into the b2c that you're doing so you're do uh you would do uh b2c marketing for small businesses correct that is correct yes okay so uh and you said paid ads i'm assuming google ads google facebook looking into linkedin because i think for it that i've been i've kind of determined is a good industry because i have experience that it would be they're probably going to need them okay probably and and like linkedin's its own ball game like you've got to have a pretty good you've got to have a pretty good conversion mechanism simply because of the price for uh for linkedin but still a great place especially in the it game let's go into how you're selling right now because you're saying you wanted a system for b2b but let's see like how do people come through into your business right now linkedin a lot of networking over time i grew a network so that's primarily how i get the clients right now okay because like i was looking at your site and and i honestly i didn't really know what you'd do like just looking at your site um and and i looked at linkedin and i was like i still don't really know what you do yes there was more concise information on linkedin but it still didn't tell me like what do you do like telling me you do paid ads you know ppc it's like okay then i get to make up my own definition of what you do because i've got my definition of ppc i've got my definition of paid ads but you're not telling me specifically what you do and that's i think that's a that's an issue so you'll carry that over into b2b okay that's a good point yeah and i'm actually reworking my website and the profile it's on my list of things to do but first i broke down all the industries and who i'd want to work with and everything you mentioned i'm aware of it's not on point it's confusing and i need to fix that so i'm glad you brought that to my attention no because i was thinking that so when you're working on on your site like who is it that you actually serve so you're saying that you're going that you you've identified i.t as as a path to go like out of it who are you going to serve in it because that's a big topic that's a big industry oh you're you're 100 correct and i've thought of that too so it's down to i'm going to do some research i'm looking at either the data security forensics area or maybe the larger managed service providers for and perhaps i'm actually researching that part of it because it's vast there's data there's yeah it's i have to spend some time on that but at least i got it down to an industry that was huge for me because i was bouncing all over yeah it looked like that from your site because it just looks so vague like we'll do paid ads for small businesses as it's like well there's um i don't know how many small businesses somewhere over 5 million or so just in america uh like there's a lot so that that covers way too much you're getting stuff you're getting business now from your network how do you intend to get business moving into i.t i plan to use targeted outreach on linkedin and so that can be to the companies and what i also might do is find people who know people in the space and build relationships with them and they can refer to me because our so that's what i'm gonna going to do but this time it's going to be more targeted better messaging i'm going to have things more aligned up because right now like you said everything's general all over if people look at what i do oh so you run some ads so what right do you have any case studies any examples that you can show the it world that you can actually serve them currently no what i have currently i have some local trades businesses i have helped other businesses so i can show results but what i can draw from is i went to school for it i worked in an enterprise level i.t environment for four years okay so what i can bring is experience of being in that environment and having training in it and then i can always being being one of them right so that's that's the approach yeah that's why i decided it would be a good one okay now i want to counter that i want to go back to like who you actually serve now like why would you leave people who are giving you money what's what's the issue there i found that okay one is when it comes to contractors there's a high degree of seasonality with a lot of them uh-huh so if it's i would need one that was year-round and consistent because if they're seasonal they'll go the season's up can we stop all work and that didn't work another one is medical which i have some experience at because i did work at an agency at one point that specialized in it but i'm just not feeling that one for whatever reason i don't know why yeah i've gotten some experience in that space at like different medical space i don't like it at all like it's uh there's it'd be really hard to pay me enough to want to work in that space i've i've helped people in dental i've helped people in cosmetic surgery like uh and and other like physicians and stuff it's like i just wouldn't do it like i don't and that's like my personal my personal feeling so i i get i get that like part of business is feel like we we got to feel what we do and and and i don't mean that in like oh i'm passionate about this thing right i i'm i'm saying that we've got to actually care enough and have enough interest in it that we that we can love to speak the language of of of our customers and medical nah that's not for me now that being said you're right i don't have case studies so i'm going to have to speak to some people in i.t and put together a system and that's a stretch but so between i had medical i.t and contractors and through all that that so it was sort of a mix so it wasn't going to be easy so if there's another one that i haven't thought of you know i would do that but i just pulled what do i know that's another one who's got lie ticket i broke it down okay right yeah i'm totally cool with it i i think it's uh one a great industry uh so plenty of room to expand so that you're not locked into a tiny niche inside of it because you could just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger like i had a client in the past he worked with education cios and and it was huge just huge industry and and that was it was just like education cios so you you've got plenty of room to grow and and uh achieve a big goals so that brings me to if we have a magic wand and we can just waive it what's your perfect business look like the perfect business it would be me i would have a project manager two three ads people i would outsource all seo and website i still do now and i would work with somewhere in the it i guess it would probably be around data security forensics they're kind of like high ticket but really long assists long sale because most people don't think about them and it's a smaller area of it but the cost of not having those systems in place is high now i may do another one because i find the demands better but that's just from what i've learned that's sort of ideally what it would look like okay it's kind of vague like i gave you a magic wand all right i gave you gave you a magic wand so you could have like the perfect business and and it was you didn't come down to what it is that you personally wanted out of it like what like you've got this business and it could do anything you want it to do what does it do oh it would ultimately i'd be able to live where i want mostly do what i want and i would have the team underneath me doing the work so i would be probably having webinars i'd be working with the clients educating them i wouldn't be in the business and that would be the goal i mean it's ultimately the reason that i do what i do it's more around the freedom i'm not having to go to an office things like that because i get wrestled sitting in an office eight hours a day so yep yep i know that feeling okay so uh you want you you're looking for freedom that's like the number one thing every entrepreneur ever says like some variation of freedom so cool i like that what results does this wonderful business give the customer what kind of results so what the customer would have is they would have a way to have their brand being presented to the public to get them to other companies to get them into their sales systems because right now what's happened is they need to have educational content out there a lot of them need webinars they need to have there's trade so they need to have paid ads going they need those things because people don't think about it because once they get into their sales system and their process and you can start automated nurturing and then you have a team actually talk to the person they can have success but initially most people don't think of i t most people don't you know it's not high priority when they think of what they need okay so do you have any idea if those things that you've said that it needs if they believe they need it i'm actually speaking with someone this week who's in i.t to get those answers i'm going to speak with others as well to confirm that but that was my experience with nit is they have the systems i've looked at their marketing but a lot of their marketing is there are the good ones but the ones who need help they don't have the systems in place to educate it's a lot of education up front to show people why they need it because people don't know what they're buying it's very it's very technical okay and because you have you told me that you do paid ads this sounds like a real departure from that actually what it would be is you can have content in there you can have seo you which is content you can do their seo so there's two types of ads there's lead generation type ads there's also branding type ads so you can have ads for download a white paper an ebook here's a custom customer testimonial it's so you're going to be able to use paid advertising for different purposes because that's the long term what companies do need and with paid you get remarketing you get the ability to target you get increased reach so i take paid ads beyond click a google ad call the plumber i view it as it's an extension to help your business grow and get front of more people and then plug them into a system in your company okay all right i i fully agree uh so one thing the reason the reason i'm asking and or even stating that the things that you say in one in one sentence are not congruent with the things you're saying in another so if you're going to have this brand message if we're going to build a brand message that they need to build a brand message right then then it's got to be clear so you can't say i do paid ads because that's not what you're doing you're getting you're doing this other thing i don't even know what you would call it this this brand system that is what is what you're actually doing paid ads just happens to be a part of that that that makes sense yeah i've been calling it customer acquisition and nurture okay customer acquisition and retention so really what it is is you're implementing a system to get people into the business and then turn them to a customer and then retaining them as a customer and a lot of that's tying them into a system around automation and that a sales team can use really i don't do paid ads you're right at the end of the day and most people don't really care if i do so okay so do you have an idea of how to actually generate customers from from this system like because you called it acquisition right so then you're telling me as the prospect that i i'm gonna give you money and i will acquire a customer yeah so what i would do is you'd have the ad they would get some information and then once they're in a system the system would have emailed with information you can give them access to different training resources it can be a group for their company to get information it could so you give them a lot of information to show them what they need you're essentially putting into some type of training or help if they need it right i understand the product it's it's demystifying i.t so it's different from the traditional you're improving the sales process because i think a lot of it companies are kind of i looked at their marketing what they say it's very technical and it yes i know what they're talking about but i went if i was a customer to really know what they what i wouldn't know what all this meant right well it depends on who their customers are so if they if their customers are ctos then speaking technically probably pretty useful granted they usually leave out speaking emotionally because they forget that ctos are human beings that's true i mean i i need to talk to more people than is what it sounds like to be honest that's your strong point because yeah i mean the technical because what really started this is i was working in a space and i just found that i was getting things shut down seasonally and i have all these skill sets and that's putting them together so do you this is what you're saying then i need to talk to more people in i.t and find out what they want that yes that's what i need to do that's what i'm hearing yes because it's like you've got all these ideas about what the market needs without ever having spoken to the market no and that's true i i have but not fully and when i decided on it i was going to talk to one or two people i spend more time on that yeah i would i would speak to you know like at least 10 different people that are potentially clients like they they fit they fit the definition of a client whether they would ever become one irrelevant uh and and actually you'd want to set it up in such a way that you're not actually looking for them to become a client you're just looking for all the secrets so that you can go and get clients right that's that's what you're you want to make it like a a really safe environment for them to divulge as much information as possible so that when you do craft a message they go yeah i would buy that because they told you exactly what they would buy then you can take that to a hit list that you've made because if you can do linkedin marketing you know an outreach you need to have a solid hit list of who you would work with then you would take all that information because the this little uh focus group that you had becomes the thing that gives you your very first offer for that market okay that makes sense yeah so you you need to bring them into that group and then have your offer and really find out once you know what they need then it's just presenting it right right right yeah because because you you hit me with like they need a what would you say a webinar they need the ads they need content they need like dude how about we do one thing we find out what that one thing is in in that space that you could actually fulfill upon yeah the number one what i do know from speaking with people on it is that most people don't their customers and now if it's cto that's different i have to know is it their audience the issue that they need a little more information to trust them understand the process or is it they don't understand i.t because those are two different different messages actually i think i don't even think of that right yep so like there was these guys that i knew i can't remember what their business name was it was something like it guys that get marketing or something like that and that was their whole thing they worked with marketing companies marketers internet marketers and they handled all the tech so they understood product launches they understood all this other stuff and they knew that there are their market knew zero about technology right so it's like you don't have to know you just be great at selling your stuff will handle every piece of tech behind the scenes never have to touch it oh that's a really good point right but if you're working with it companies who work with other technology customers well those technology customers want to know can you handle this form of technology that form of technology what about this what about this other thing right they want to know all the details because you got engineers speaking to engineers right so if you're selling to an engineer there's no way they're going to listen to a marketer who says yeah but you'll feel great about it right you don't have to worry about all that technological stuff right and speak to me and i can see so marketers would go to uh i.t people engineers and start speaking the language of of uh benefits as opposed to features and and so they start speaking to them like they're human beings instead of robots well engineers really care about the engineering they really care about the technology but they're also emotional beings so you have to find a way to speak the engineering language and the marketing language together right so you need to know who do you work with so if you're in security cyber security or just oh uh so cyber security huge very broad um is it again b2c uh like because people you know consumers like me do need you know security uh but if you're talking b2b well who on the b2b side is their customer because if it's a small business owner that small business owner doesn't want to know anything about the technology right that's true i need to know who they're targeting because they could be larger there's a size i know when i do it once companies have a certain size that go in house so who i deal with will be someone who helps these companies but they're not quite ready to bring it in-house though right right so there's there's a lot yeah there's a lot and this is where and the reason i've gone all over the place and for people watching and hopefully they're still sticking around is that we've got to understand like who you are and what your motivation is because you're about to launch a startup you're you're going from i've got a business that has been making me money i looked at your linkedin almost six years all right this stated on your linkedin you're nearly at the six year anniversary that's right and you're going to start a brand new business yeah i'm going after clientele that i've never really worked with because i've worked a lot of contractors and they're easy i just found getting a hold of them and the seasonality i just people it works but i was just running into stumbling blocks with it i was getting fed up so i was looking at other options right and and this is this is critical because a lot of people get into this uh mindset that the thing that i'm doing isn't working the way i want it to work so i'm gonna go start from scratch over here i'm gonna start from zero i'm gonna go from zero to one as opposed to going from one or two to five or six in the other thing or even just one just one to two like we don't even have to go very far but but i don't know if you've read peter thiel's book but zero to one is incredibly difficult well you know it definitely is because after working with certain industries enough you start to learn the common challenges they've been having so maybe it doesn't mean i can't do it but i have to really think about if i'm doing it for the right reasons then right because it's a whole different ballgame you're like it's like i'm i'm feeling one way and i think that it's that whole grass is greener thing i think it's going to be far greener over here and i've not spoken to anyone in that space yet but i believe it to be better and that is the thing you've got to find out why do you really believe that yeah i mean i did speak to some people in i.t and they have similar legion problems right but can i solve it or do you just finish the other thing and then later on go to another industry and help them yeah so i want to interrupt but if you solve the one you'll probably never go to the other that's that's true as well okay well everything you said made really good points so i still need to talk to people in it i need to find out what they need and why make an informed decision and then i have an idea of the system see could i put this in place doesn't mean what they need and i need to make sure that what i'm doing lines up because i don't want to do this i have to make sure this is actually a viable decision from a business point of view because yeah what you said if you starting this from scratch if it's not done right it's not going to get me the result i want and i'm better off just growing what i was already working with and figuring how to make it work better exactly exactly that is that is literally what needs to happen because uh i.t like i said right in the very beginning love it brilliant space to be in for somebody who's already in it it's fantastic but for somebody who's breaking into it from essentially zero i i would say you're at like 0.1 maybe right where you're at and and going and then trying to take it up from there versus maybe we just have a broken legion system for ourselves right now that's the other possibility too it's how you get in contact with it because i found some industries were just they're very difficult to get hold of someone a lure of i.t is they're really easy to get a hold of like if you look on linkedin there's tons of them yeah that's that was an appeal of it because certain industries are hard to get on the phone you can't get a hold of them but it can be challenging right so i think that was one reason that i liked about it and medical i was like i didn't really want to do it so but i t like getting up front of the customers would be easier right you can put stuff on linkedin you can message them it's easy to start the conversations like they tend to be more engaged on with technology now that i think i never told you that before but that was a reason and i'm motive i'm i'm still my brain is still sitting here processing the statements that you've made about getting a hold of people so contractor dynamics we don't call out we don't call out to anyone they they come to us and we get them to book a time with our people and our people talk to them at the scheduled time okay we don't worry about the industry being hard to get a hold of and we're and for contractor dynamics they're in this that company's in the roofing business and roofers are incredibly difficult to get a hold of because they have terrible systems and they're working 16-hour days especially during the on season uh off-season easy to get a hold of them but for part of the year they don't answer their phone unless it's a paying customer right they they're incredibly difficult to get a hold of we don't do that they come to us right so that's a that's a a lead generation system that we have which is based on client attraction as opposed to client outreach that makes sense that makes sense but you can still do the out do you do outreach because a lot of okay i've spoken with some agencies and they do both still yeah they do the outreach for the customers they want and then they have their inbound as well some businesses do like doing outreach but it puts you in a weaker position it puts you in a price shopping position because the people you're reaching out to don't know you from adam they don't know you from any other company they don't know why they need to do uh do business with you so you can put them right into your sales system and if you've got a very simplified sales system a relatively low uh price tag then you could probably do that and just reach out and push people through or if you're a large enough company where you can put people into a nurturing system where you've got people doing outreach and striking up the conversations and then other people doing the nurturing so that you get through these long sales cycles of maybe you know six months or a year before they're actually on a call a sales going into sales calls you know that's a possibility or for a business like ours and really any smaller agency like yourself i would focus more on attraction marketing where you're putting the effort into getting people to call you one far less resource is necessary to fulfill that business two because there's less resources much more freedom right because you said i want freedom first thing well if we're doing outreach that means we've got to have call center you know we're going to have sales people doing outreach we've got to have all that going on or we could speak the right message into the market using ads [Music] right we might go to use some paid ads and then we can attract them into our sales system then they get indoctrinated into our way of viewing the world and then they get onto a phone call with a sales rep which may be you and that person converts them because they've already been they've already gone through the thing they've already self-selected when they saw the ad that they had you know they raised their hand said i've got some interest right and then they saw additional content that filters them even further like oh yeah i don't have that problem i'm out or yes that is exactly the problem i have so i'm i'm going to take the next step i'm going to book a call with you right yeah i've heard that before and that's the interesting thing is i was also told that to really get moving faster it's better to do outreach yep but you've been in business six years so you shouldn't be in a position by now that you need to do something fast oh yeah i see you mean so what i should be doing is well i didn't grow as fast as i wanted because i kind of i jumped around too much and that sort of i've been doing it long enough to know all the tools i know this is me saying i need to focus down because i know what to do and focus so i need to focus on more of an inbound system then versus the oh versus the outbound like you're saying because that works better it works better to get better clients so going into a brand new space so so we got two ideas here i got my current business and the types of clients i've been solving problems for and then i've got this other one that i think is going to be my golden goose right but it's mythical right now so i'm gonna go do my research i'm gonna go validate whether or not we don't have to validate the the industry don't have to do that we don't have to validate that they want to get clients as because we know they do so we just need to validate will they buy a solution of some sort from me right so we need to know what what they what they need and do i have the capability of fulfilling that need and then if i can then i move to the next stage that business is going to require outreach there's no way around it because nobody knows who you are or you could spend a lot of money on ads and get known but i would start with outreach because it's inexpensive and you can get direct feedback really fast right i see so for the existing one inbound would work but for the new one you need the outbound oh i see the difference no i do know yeah that makes sense right because the the business that you've got now it's been in business for six years by now you should have you should have a system where people are coming to you through that system and saying i want to work with you daryl right because i do have that and they're like yeah we want ads we want leads etc no problem set it up and you go i mean that's pretty straightforward versus i.t no one really knows and it's a whole different system and a different audience and they have no idea but you made some points i never considered but i so i want i want to go back to that so i just said you need this system and and why did i bring that up because you told me earlier that you didn't have that system you said you had a network and that you reached out to your network and and maybe you get referrals or something but you wouldn't be looking for greener pastures if that system worked you're right that's exactly it so what i want to leave you with because you know we've we've made this journey from this uh you know identifying who you are what what it is it's motivating you where you want to go but there's no way you're going to make this decision here and that is i want you to spend some time thinking about the business that you have and whether or not you want to figure out the system that would generate quality leads coming in they say i want to work with you and then you get to say yes or no or are you going to just let it you know run like just exist while you figure out this other thing and put most of your energies into that because they are two very different decisions yeah and that's exactly it too you're right because i i was going between so i have to decide if i want to start branching into doing marketing for another industry and then sectors within that outside do i want to devote the time that's really required or fix what's working and have a better system for getting leads right and really work what i have now better have a system that really utilizes it right because there here's here's the the thing that i've kind of hinted at is if you don't fix the one you got you're gonna carry it into the new one yes and you know what having someone tell you the truth like you just did that's what we need oh no i really appreciate it you're you're welcome like i it's it's a reality we really have to face because we've we all have our defense mechanisms i have mine like i got a lot of them but we all have our defense mechanisms and yours is i i'm not happy with the thing i've got so i'll just go do something new right and that new thing is far harder than the one you got yeah so i need to talk to people and i t still like just have conversations and like really decide before i put too much more time into it way out what i need to do realistically can i deliver it and then okay would i want to take the time to put this system together because i've already acknowledged myself it's going to be a completely different system when you're working with b to generating b2b clients for it versus working with a plumber getting leads it's right totally different and i already know plumbers and all these ones i can run ads for them and i've seen enough i'm basically have to decide if i want to essentially make you set a it's a new business it is a new business i think it's a great one and you may after taking the time to contemplate this uh and and say i'm going all in on it like i'm making the switch i'm going to do it i'm going to do everything it takes i'm going to build up i'm going to augment my reality so that every so that the market sees me as the marketing person for the i t the a particular space in i.t right they're going to see you that way and you've and you use all the credibility indicators that you can muster to make that reality surround you and then as you do your outreach they go and they look at your linkedin they go and they look at your website and go that guy he knows me he's speaking my language he knows my problems he can read my mind yeah that's what it has to be they have to look at you and say okay he gets this he gets it he because right now it's they don't know that at all no it's not exactly and neither do your current customers no they don't well i it's quite interesting how you pointed out that i need to reassess what i'm currently doing and then before i look at the new one and then fix what's broken because then at least i can bring that forward if i'm gonna do something else yeah if you can if you can fix the uh customer acquisition for yourself in your current model you can apply it right into the new one well that's what i'm going to have to do then and i've been working on it but i have to give it more focus and a lot more yep and and when i look at your linkedin profile and i look at your website i need to be able to know exactly who daryl oberg is i need to know it like i don't know i go on there i look i have no idea what you really do i i've got my definition of paid ads i've got my definition of things but i don't know what you really do and you nee and if you fix that you fix that messaging and the method by which you acquire customers right now then you have a system that you can apply into any industry doesn't mean you should go into those industries but you could because you have a working business system as opposed to a fantasy about what this new thing could give you yeah totally okay well you've given me some homework you've called me out on some things here that i have to really question about why i'm doing it okay well i'm going to go and talk to people fix my legion system and really break this down to why and make sure it's the right thing yeah i don't want to do something because the grass looks greener right yep but like i said you know we are entrepreneurs and we are an odd bunch and so it's quite possible that you go you know i thought about it for about five seconds and i'm still gonna go do the other thing and if i do and i'll send you my linkedin profile when it's done awesome awesome well send it like send me your linkedin and and your website when you've figured out your messaging uh because you know i thought about like doing like a critique and like showing your show and stuff uh to the audience uh like here but i really wanted to go into like the psychology of it i really wanted to figure out what you were thinking because i had an idea because i've worked with a lot of people like you and i had an idea of what was happening but i wanted to hear it and as opposed to just going and going fix this fix this fix this and that wouldn't give you it wouldn't give you much it would give you well you'd make you some money but it wouldn't give you any real insight into what you were thinking yeah you're totally correct and the stuff you pointed out is things that i was kind of thinking that had to be fixed and i put off like the website right so i hope this helped others as well because i'm sure others have the same thing the same what do they call it shiny object syndrome yeah exactly exactly all right well thank you thank you for coming on daryl it is it was a pleasure i hope you got a lot of value from it and for everyone watching i hope you got value from it and if so hit that like button subscribe share and do all the socials and we will see you in the next video and we're done all right that's the video right there

Channel: Tim Conley

Views: 1,439

Keywords: how to pick a niche, How to Find a PROFITABLE NICHE for Social Media in 2020 (Instagram and Youtube!), How to find a successful niche for social media, how to pick a niche for smma, how to pick a niche for digital marketing agency, Tim Conley, a nerd's world

Id: mELkxGMN0BE

Length: 43min 54sec (2634 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 03 2020