How to Invest in Real Estate—The Ultimate Show for Getting Started | BP Podcast 300

this is the bigger bad joke but wait wait do I say that excuse me I say that excuse me this is my show this is my show what are you doing is the bigger pocket a sec yes hold on it ready this podcast dude it's my show my show cue the music you're listening to BiggerPockets radio simplifying real estate for investors large and small if you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the heights you're in the right place stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger pockets calm your home for real estate investing online what is going on everybody this is Josh Dorkin host the official host the anchors of our cuts the X the X house our excuse you the X host the finger pockets but the figure pockets may hold the old here my co-host how undeserving Brandon Turner I have come back everybody to take over my show back from the dead look at this and he has grown a disgusting beard his brain is getting too large take over Hannah thing over is the word you were looking for yeah I don't know man what's I you're back back from the dead weird I think we hinted a few weeks ago that you were coming back for episode you know 301 and here you are today back for 301 1 or 300 yeah this was gonna be a two-part show and we've decided to crunch it together into one epic monster show monster really really long and quite entertaining and helpful show it is yeah I would encourage you guys this is gonna be the longest show we've ever done I think but listen to it in two parts if you have to on your drive to work and home but make sure you listen to the whole thing everything we talked about today every interview we do and we'll get to that in a minute is solid song solid so yes so speaking of guess yes guests plural back well your your your talk about me let's not talk about you worried about our guests today we actually we actually have eleven guests today 11 and 12 including me 12 including you if you're a guest today we can call you a guest today okay I guess it's kind of a guest host I am NOT here permanent guys unfortunately I am back for today I just I just want to see Brandon squirm I want to get a little uncomfortable thanks that's weird today we're going to interview 11 of our past guests and we're simply going to ask them what is we have a few questions but mainly what is your best advice for new real estate investors and like some of these are some of our fan favorites people that people just love these guys and girls yes yeah it's what are you doing a Yoda impression yes I don't even know what you're doing Josh anyone who watched late night television knows what's happened are you over 50 don't worry about it anyway they also share book recommendations they do yes speaking okay looks let's get to today's tip oh it's so much better with me yeah I know I don't know okay quick - yeah all right so the quick tip is well why are we doing this show why are you back why is it's because you're doing this show we are super excited about something Brandon and and I don't know how quite how we made this happen given the fact that you can't stand me and I I can't think yeah I was gonna say you can't stand me but you like me I just can't stand you so it's like you're awesome yeah I think you're awesome especially anyway it's horrible but here's today's quick tip Brandon and I have have spent some time doing something that I've wanted to do for a very long time and that is to write massages oh oh oh this is awkward thank you god you're on you're on a roll so we have written collaboratively a book my first full-length book yep which is really exciting I mean I know this is like you're 730 second floor welcome a typic welcome to be a pub welcome to being a published author Josh well I now now I'm the author as well so yeah I'm very excited about this so Brandon and I have have a book coming out titled today - at best it comes out it does can you just let me go go go it's titled how to invest in real estate the ultimate beginner's guide to getting started not to be confused with the ultimate beginner's guide which we wrote five and a half years ago as a free e-book on the site correct and that book has been downloaded by like well over a million people I think millions and millions of downloads I don't know exactly but that book served as inspiration for this book that was that was a guide it was on the website we gave it away as a free ebook and what happened we had countless people over the years reaching out to us telling us how awesome the ubg was and how they were just hoping that we could turn it into something a little more comprehensive and so since Brandon fired me from the podcast I had a little more time and decided to do this no we you know we've been hoping to do this for a while and and collaborated on on this book which is absolutely fantastic it's fantastic not just because like you know you helped you know write it which makes it more fantastic but know what's cool is that we took the kind of approach of like let's take a bunch of stories of BiggerPockets podcast guest people that you've listened to for years on the show here and we have over 40 stories throughout the book so every time we talk about a different type of investing because here's here's the idea of the book right the big picture and we'll move on in a second but the big picture is this when somebody says I want to invest in real estate what does that even mean we wanted to make sure like what does that actually what type of real stay right so we wanted to make one book that like we it we actually tentatively called it start here the first title of this was called start here because we wanted to be able to hand people a book and say start here so if you're if you're new if you've done less than five deals if you know people who have done less than five deals get them this book even if you've done 100 deals you probably learn something cool but really the idea is we wanted to give one book to rule them all one book to find them one book to I don't know the rest of that is that a Lord of the Rings or regular reference yes but what to be like you there's sonority I know this is the fat explains the beard they control your that short guy what's his name Gimli Emily yeah I'm Gimli except for I'm very anyway okay we're gonna move on but anyway you guys check your axe I I did axe throwing in Austin a few weeks ago that was amazing anyway oh nice how to invest in real estate the Elephant Butte is you get it today on BiggerPockets calm slush how to invest orbit easier just go to bigger pockets that comes less store but bigger pockets how to invest you can get the book now there are a bunch of launched only stuff for a bunch of bonuses you get including if you buy in the first couple weeks you're going to get a invite to a special live Q&A webinar with Josh gonna dance for you I'm not I might dance on the Q&A webinar oh I thought we were doing that as a bonus no no no no no I will dance for free I don't you don't pay for that oh they entice anybody anytime no but you come to a Q&A webinar we being Josh will hang out with you for a while answer your questions but you've got to buy the book in the first two weeks to get that check it out there's digital packages there's ultimate packages where you get digital audio physical everything shipped to your house so check it out bigger pockets that calm slash how we don't ship in the digital we do we ship it via email oh yeah okay super fancy all right bigger pockets that come how to invest get the book today yeah let's make it the best selling real estate book in the world that's the goal I thank you that is alright should we should we get to this you guys here to love this again 11 interviews with some of the best real estate investors that I know and a lot of really fun interviews a lot of laughs today you guys are gonna love this so no chitchat really in between oh yeah all your chitchat up front yep we're just gonna dive right into this thing it says the advice is gold Jerry gold gold yes so also guys next week check out the show it was going to be a two-parter it's not going to be so check out the show it's gonna be great because you know you will be back next week I won't be Guinness alright like life will be better for you and your ears that is that from something I don't know yes all right we're moving on let's get to the interviews bring it on guys all right Tim welcome to the show man so we I have not had the pleasure of chatting with you on the podcast of course Mindy was subbing in for me that day unfortunate for the world but you know it's it's nice to meet you it's nice to chat with you today's show we're doing something very special but and we're gonna focus on newbies but before we do let's give everybody like a 60 second brief on who you are what do you do what's what's your kind of real estate strategy sure thanks for having me on guys I appreciate it I'm excited about being on this greatest hits album my original podcast was to 21 with the substitute teacher Mindy Jensen and Brandon and Brandon was in Hawaii so now it looks like he's not in Hawaii so next week he's on his way you were sunburned in there was birds chirping in the background about you 21 professional so he was so my background is I'm like the Antichrist on BiggerPockets because I buy for I buy for appreciation which is like riverboat gambling Bitcoin I'm the big point of real estate it's so what my thing is is my wife and I you know I got some silver hair and when you're young you trying to scrap a deal together I get it and and you got to do whatever you got to do but now I'm in a different phase of my life so all I buy is quality real estate and fantastic school districts literally where I buy some number one school district outta 963 in Texas there's a cool little website called school digger like you're digging schools to see what your town ranks with school district so totally focus on school districts and appreciation I love it I actually I when I did your show I changed a little bit I took my entire world perspective changed a little bit because I'm like Timnath I'll be shorter grown and reared I that's who I said grown a beard after that and it hasn't stopped it has this beautiful I see unicorns and rainbows when I look at it that's what I'm going for that's the LSD okay so other than the advice have like growing a beard what do you have suggest for newbie investors okay getting started so there's a couple things one is is I'm always worried about couples having a conflict the guy wants to be investor the girl doesn't and and you know happy wife happy life so you gotta focus on that so one thing I would say is you're living on your launchpad and what I mean by that is if you're living at a $200,000 house you're probably gonna go buy a hundred thousand dollar rental but if you're living if you turn your current house your Launchpad into your rental couple things happened one is you're gonna be guaranteed that your next personal residence might be 250 or 300 and you just start it out with you know 50% better rental the other thing is you made your wife happy because now you're moving into a new house and you know the good and the bad and the ugly of your current house and the most important thing I think we'd all agree from listing all the bigger pockets but owner-occupied houses you can get in for 3 to 5 percent investment properties are 20% so you could about a $100,000 house took your 20 grand out of savings or you can turn your $200,000 house go buy a $300,000 house at 3% and put 9 grand down make mama happy and everyone's happy and you know what's good and bad about your current place you're living in instead of you buying your first house having a foundation is you having a hidden problem and then you never buy your second house so you're talking about just doing basically living flip kind of strategy yeah love it just live and rent I mean turning over this house into your rental because oh I got it got it we've all had all these people go man I just don't know where to get started well you already live in in your first rent house go buy go buy another personal residence you'll be good to go so my things are school districts and just get going with your first house because you know I hear it all the time too where people just you know the wife doesn't want to or the husband doesn't want to do it it's an easy way to start with your first one by buying a better house and turning your current house into a rental so that's actually don't think anybody on 300 episodes of the show has actually said like as a strategy take your house I mean people do it accidentally all the time like a lot of strategy yeah yeah let's see a Nike swoosh with that just move okay what do you say what do you say to the guys who you know are living in a property where you know they might be a little cash flow negative if they were to rent that that house you know on my episode 221 I basically because I have other businesses and other revenue streams I really don't care that much if I'm negative or positive my bigger thing is appreciation if I have a three hundred thousand dollar house that goes up 10 percent I made 30 grand let's say I was negative 200 a month two times 12 is 24 so your Delta on that is you know like $27,000 so I look at a little bit different but I'm in a different situation currently and I'm 52 years old but if you're 22 years old or 30 years old and you start obtaining all this negative cash flow it could sink you but if you've got other things going on and and you always say when you pick the house you picked the problem you pick the property you picked the problem I hate the word problem but you know you've got different things on the lower end and and with the higher end stuff I know that we talked about it Brandon the other strategy that we do out of the higher end that you couldn't do out of the lower end if you've got lower end properties those people are probably never going to be homeowners but what we do with my wife is buy from me tear up your lease for free so one of our renters and one of our high-end properties with 750 or 800 Beacon score we allow them to tear up the lease if they buy a different property not our rent house a different property from my wife so now when that renter leaves my wife makes a 3% pop yeah so I mean it's it works I mean I'm not you know I'm not when these pie-in-the-sky guys last year my wife made 71 thousand dollars in commissions selling properties to our renters because we have high-end rent houses that's also those people shouldn't be renters and on that note like when I look at my most expensive properties that I own right now the tenants are also the highest quality tenant I have I get the least amount of phone calls and those houses have appreciated like in the last few years an incredible amount more than my crappy little dumpy thing that did cashflow really well right yeah and now actually the good ones are now cash flowing because rent went up so much because it's such a high demand area exactly you just got to wait it out for a couple years you know all my stuff wasn't positive day one but you know as long as they keep printing more money rents are gonna go up and eventually you're going to be alright on that one of the things since these asked for one tip and will give me like seven sorry so why me up here we go the other thing we do is we write the first hundred dollars worth of repairs or on the tenth the tenant and the reason being is it avoids some of those calls you were talking about Brandon so when someone calls hey I got a garbage disposal well you gotta hit the reset and that's not a hundred dollars sure I got a loose doorknob well thank you for telling me I'll put that on your record that you need to get that fixed so you kind of flip the script on it because once you start obtaining more properties it's gonna be more challenging to manage so we put the first hundred bucks is on them we explained to them that these houses are a retirement we're gonna take care of you it's just we can't have a zillion different different calls on little door doorknobs and things like that what's the response to that yeah it's great once you explained it to them and just going see it from our side but also realize there's no one that cares more about this house I mean this isn't oh we have one rent houses you know we've got we've got 19 quality high-end rentals before we had some low-end apartments when we had a podcast a year and a half ago we cleared up all of the lower end stuff and now it's just quality stuff portfolios worth about eight million and it's just quality stuff that's great that's great awesome man well anything else Brandon I'm off radio any other final tips leave it before we get out of here to him for a brand I'm gonna do a couple things you know a shameless plug if I don't come on and plug it something then we're in trouble but but I sent each you guys copy this book and what's funny is it was made in the my wife love slash hates rental properties decision exactly but it's 16 chapters I thought about it when I saw Scott trench and Mindy and you're almost four where you're in Denver and I thought I'm gonna write a book with the guys perspective on a chapter and then the girl's perspective guy-girl guy-girl I made my wife looked like George Jetson with the Jetson lady not animated the cartoon wife yeah exactly but the reason why all the money goes to the women's shelter safe haven in Fort Worth Texas I'm not trying making money off it but what is for is when the guys into this and the girls not or vice versa you got this book back and forth explaining the guys perspective and the girls perspective and what got me thinking about that is the book everyone recommends on your show that guy wrote a lot of books and then Kim Kiyosaki wrote a lot of books and I read her book and it made me understand the female perspective so I wanted to combine male and female perspective all in one and then the other thing that Mindy ass is this is the coolest book I've read in probably last five years what is it this is a radio show you do realize you keep showing pictures there's a radio show man tube also this beard just gets me I'm like it's like a tractor baby's distracted it's disgusting attractive is the word you're looking there's something I think I see a cheeto in it it's entrepreneural reflection I I just met the author about a month ago he's great guy 78 year old guy's name is Jay Rogers rodg ers and what's great about it like he did a deal where he bought a condo in the Omni in downtown Fort Worth and he was worried that they were gonna discount out the final units and and it would hurt his value and so he ended up writing in the contract that if you discount out any units then I get the difference so say it's 40 bucks a square foot he's gonna get it so sure enough they try to blow out a unit for like 300 grand and his was a multi-million dollar unit so he put a contract on the $300,000 a unit he would have got it for like $23,000 because of the because of the discount so anyway his stuff is just super a lot of real estate a lot of higher-end it's like a book for an older entrepreneur it's not blocking and tackling like Scott trench is set for life which is a great book to get started with this is kind of algebra and calculus cool little book awesome and obviously that would be your book recommendation then there you go all right fantastic well Tim thank you for for coming on and sharing your energy and your them and and we really appreciate it and I appreciate and we don't do this Greatest Hits podcast is much appreciated well working people working people connect with you at you had a website like that yeah Tim shiner like a black eye remember Tim shiner calm and I've got a poster there that's free twenty five habits of a future millionaire it's got the podcasts to twenty one that was on before with y'all and I also want to recommend two forty two Josh Randall's Josh Joshi you had Josh who were so freaking hilarious and Brandi you were too but they just had to figure out which Josh was talking it was Josh it dated his sister that thing was crazy that's my favorite one so far a lot of fun thank you for joining us thanks guys thanks Erin say grow it up man it's it's been a while it's been a while we've been chatting recently but remind the audience who you are you've been on the show before you're all-around BiggerPockets but but in in very briefly let let people know what your story is I've been a real estate investor since 1998 primarily investing in duplexes small multi-family homes near train stations with easy commutes in and out of New York New Jersey into Manhattan that's right and the train station thing with what I thought yeah you know it was cool yeah yeah and you're also an agent right I am an agent yes I primarily work with investors I got my license really because there was no agents that really understood what I was trying to do and it seems a lot of agents are that way still to this day so I mean I that could be another whole conversation as is but yeah that's great that's great cool man so you've been doing this for a long time you've got a very specific strategy that works well for you and what was what was the show that you were on previously which everywhere 48 right was like 48 that's been a long time that was a long time ago yeah so if you guys have not listened to Darren's entire show go listen to bigger pockets icons less show 48 that's right last time I think Josh you were down in the basement and Brandon was in some and he's usually in a class it has been my night it's been too long actually during some rural area right all right I'm making fun of Brandon today so lettuce is great it's a missus this is good baby yeah I want to get to the topic of today's show which is new investors best advice for getting started so Darren what is your best advice that you would give a new investor but when they're gonna get into real estate simply put focus I think the biggest problem that a new investor has when they come in is that they get inundated with too much information they sort of come out and try to take a shotgun approach just trying to make something happen and real estate investing is a rather large area so they actually try to learn too much too soon and and they get overwhelmed by it and if you're doing too much in a very short period of time you're never going to get anything done it's kind of like use the analogy of actually building a house if you're a general contractor you generally don't do you don't build the entire house yourself you know you you go out and sub different aspects of it out different people who are specialized in it so I think it's really important for a new investor to come in and really just focus on one area that they can get into and work on that consistently on on a daily basis just do a little bit every day towards that because otherwise they're just gonna go in a thousand different directions and and not actually get anything to happen yeah suits him how does how does somebody I mean we're talking about newbies here right so how does a newbie even know what strategy to start with how do they know what to focus on what would you recommend I think probably the easiest thing for a newer person to invest in is probably some type of owner-occupied situation in a small multi-family house I was considering kind of like dipping your foot in the pool I call it landlord light because by you owner occupying a home you don't have like basically standard landlord-tenant relationships in many states again it depends upon the state that you're in but they're more seen as a guest in your house per se and it's a little bit easier to deal with situations should they come up so the very first thing I would do is is again if you're starting off and you want to get into this is try to find a you know two or three that you possibly can buy but it's really work with the lender talk to a lender find out exactly what you can do I get people call me up all the time so you know where should I be going where should I invest and and the big question is you know what can you actually do you know and if you do if you're not sitting at a lot of capital you know maybe an FHA loan is the way to go to get into a small multi-family only putting three and a half percent down but that's probably the the most sound advice - I think to get involved in real estate investing get into a small multi-family and see if you like it try to get into the absolute best place that you possibly can I think a lot of people try to go into more challenging neighborhoods because they feel that the rate of return that that they're gonna have is going to be greater than other places however the experience that they may have is not going to be one that could lead to them actually having a very long-term relationship with real estate investing it's like Josh like yourself I mean look you're dirty and I mean my I'm from a break and you just come slugging a man true it's true absolutely but Josh your your bad experience though in the end we all have to be very grateful for it because if it wasn't for you having that bad experiences we wouldn't be talking at this very moment so this is true this is true hey you rate you talked about treating them like guests and I think that's that's great but but do keep in mind you know obviously and you know this up but but just I want the listeners to them you know you still want to make sure you got proper paperwork and you do everything you do it at a businesslike level I don't mean that you should be treating them like a houseguest and on a court level that's not what I mean what I mean is that the way and I'm not an attorney and I only played one in high school drama so you definitely should talk to your attorney about this but it's my understanding that the way the law perceives the tenants being in your residence is different since they're underneath your roof versus a standard landlord-tenant relationship when you don't occupy the unit on a small multifamily there's a lot more leeway that they give you and your ability to say yes or no to a prospective tenant because again it it's your home yeah yeah that whole that whole idea of house hacking like focusing on that I think is such a good first step I mean that's how I started did you house active right like the beginning yeah yeah like it's such a good just intro thing now what about somebody who's just like cannot do that for whatever reason let's say they're their spouse will not live in a multi-family no matter what like how does somebody then go well should I just not invest in real estate or do you have another back-up plan for those people well obviously I think it's it's best if you know if you're doing if you have a spouse that you're both working towards the same goal yeah so if you know Josh when you came out a couple years ago and did our meet up in New York you literally did not talk about real estate investing I don't think at all it was a great meet up what you spoke about for that and that entire time was your why the program right exactly so if you're not both working towards that similar purpose then then you're not going to be on the same page no matter what it is that you try to do you both have to be you know both have to have the similar goals as to what it is you're trying to achieve so you got to get your why straight no matter what it doesn't matter you know what do you possibly can get into so if your spouse doesn't want to go into a small multi-family and and kind of take that step then obviously you have to look at other prospective ways of getting in if you want to start in small multifamily your guys obviously gonna have to put more money down and you're gonna have to choose a market that hopefully your spouse will be comfortable going to in the middle of the night yeah you know you don't want to go into those rough neighborhoods where it can be a little bit more challenging just to chase higher returns because again you're chasing higher returns but you're also chasing what's gonna be an impact upon your time yeah all right and that's something that we really don't talk about all that much yeah everyone loves so what's the cap rate you know what's it gonna be with what's my internal rate of return well what's your time worth right is it worth to get those double-digit returns if it means that you're getting text in the middle of the night you know with issue after issue to me it's not I'm a much more conservative in that way I'd rather make less and and have much more peace in my life I could not agree more yeah I think if people have overlooked that a lot too right I mean like Josh you started at that level I start at a level like by like the dumb pious cheapest house you can buy or like you know like even if it's in a little bit of a war zone or a little bit of a yeah I I regret those I mean I learned a lot but man they like they they're not my good properties today absolutely and I think a lot of newer investors sometimes if they're working with an agent who is really driven upon making a sale to making their living then I don't think that's probably the best agent that they should be working with I don't think in all reality that when it comes to working with a real estate agent that you should be working with an agent who doesn't actually walk the walk if they don't have income producing properties and they're just out there you know providing new things saying you should buy here because they're not gonna actually gonna add value at the end of the day after the sale anyone can really go out and make a sale as a real estate agent and it's kind of funny Michele Mike my girlfriend she just took the real estate exam and she said they covered real estate investing she said for one paragraph that's in the seventy five hour class here in New Jersey but that was it so so now suddenly with the real estate license we can go out as state agents and sell someone a million dollar property a million dollar investment and they only covered it for literally she said five minutes yeah that's crazy so true though I mean like yeah most agents out there have little training so I I think I would actually have that as a that's like a good second tip today from you is right is like find an investor friendly agent somebody who can help you focus like once you have your focus find an agent who can actually help you do that that's great what when I got my license it was the same thing I I don't think I spent three minutes investing as an agent so awesome Darren we'll listen a great great advice we really do appreciate it before we let you go um we'd love a book recommendation from you uh let's see I think this was the last recommendation I had right was the hamburger America but actually I probably saved my most prized book that I have in my collection is actually this one I don't know if you're aware but this is actually the very first printed copy what is the book yeah I think that was lovely no money down Randy Turner's so yeah the very first printing that that was ever done brand and actually says there's two of these and I am absolutely this is really is my prized collection but if I have to say a book right now that that's been a huge impact as probably Chris bosses never split the difference yeah fantastic in a way you can apply it and also one I've really been getting into recently is Phil M Jones exactly what to say I did that but I haven't got it yet it is a fantastic book you gotta check it out sweet crazy I will all right what can people find out more about you what can they connect with you at Josh would you believe I still don't have a website I believe it I know you well you're a bigger you're a bigger pockets and you got the amazing me tickets absolutely yes we do a good meetup you've been a guest and now that you're going to Hawaii I don't know how we're gonna be able to lure you back like halfway around the world just do the meet up in Maui it'll be much better Peter Lugar's fancy steak oh you can find me on BiggerPockets or you can email me at Darren Sager yeah whoo calm is probably my best way to get ahold of me perfect well thank you hey thanks Darren alright Ben labor welcome to the show and let me first say congratulations on the recent closing you just spotted a partner complex hey my sure did as Burke says welcome to the club there you go no and for you guys III know that one of you came out of a closet I want you to know that for you I don't just look good I also smell good is that sex panther as you can see this is my go-to cologne for the second meeting it's still a musky in here wow yeah all right that's really funny you have that Colonna to lyrics alright the fact that into it alright for those people who don't know you when they're like who the heck is this guy bed tell us your life story imple yeah I don't know who they are cuz you've you've been on the show now this is your fourth time I think on the BiggerPockets pot you realize like every time he comes in the show he cries guys just Burke that's important of me to beat out Burke there yeah I mean this is the one thing I can actually beat him out on so I'd like to make sure and do that with me tone it down a little will work I like the I like beatin Burke that's okay and by the way do you know Burke and here's a place in Maui so know me and Burke are gonna hang out next week I'm gonna go see him yeah you know we're gonna talk about it yeah we got to do this so who are you what do you do in real estate yeah lay I professionally trained violinist I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis yep I needed to figure out what to do with self because punching the clock wasn't gonna be the wisest thing to do according to the docs and all of the things that I have intellectual where whether with all you know real estate turned out to be like the most optimal decision I thought and so I got in and the other reason I got in this house plain stupid you know just like everybody you know she does real estate unless you're stupid you got this this is the newbie show bin stop it stop it all right so you got a new rule sit by the way you were episode number 14 number 61 and number 152 I don't encourage people to go out and listen to those who hear your yes full story out all of them I am just saying so been sex panther label so you got into real estate your multifamily guy you just bought a name just syndicated a 98 unit so now you're in the club ten million dollar deal it's going to be 15 when I'm done with it three years from now it's fantastic to the beginning I mean like what is your tip what is that number one tip you have for people who are just getting started today well my number one tip I think has nothing to do with real estate it has to do with self okay you have to know who you are and the afternoon cycles like everybody always talks about real estate cycles and and and every kind of market cycle well the people don't understand usually that we as humans as people go through cycles and doing something that is akin to trying to shove a square peg into a round hole with regard to where you are in an you know like your intellectual wealth state is a big huge mistake I think and people don't give that enough credit you can't do something before you are ready to do it both you know spiritually and and logically have them have the kind of the worth up here so what do you mean by what do you mean my cycle I mean like a plan I I don't I I mean like a judge for probably like four to five hours now on this podcast and I got to tell you I don't know what the hell are you talking about well the reason you can't relate is because you've been stuck in the 5-year old cycle ever since you were five so you don't have related fried things I don't tell you mean cycle what is that so so when you are when you are listening to this podcast and you are listening to been lady who started with buying duplexes and then six plexes and then ten and then a hundred units indication all that you're like I want to do that like I want to do that the thing you don't understand is that it took me 5 ye it took me five years like I heard Burke talk about syndication and I said this makes sense kinda sorta but it took me five years to grow into understanding what that process and that game really is about I need people to kind of be cognizant of the fact that you are not ready until you are ready to do something and we're all about hoorays and we're all about you know high fives and all that stuff that's not real life you need to know what your highest and best use in this moment will be if it's a duplex then that's what it is don't push it you will make a mistake if it's if you have enough intellectual worth to understand how to do a hundred unit and raise three point five million dollars from partners and do all that stuff if you have a great do that but that's the biggest mistake I see people make is trying to jump into pants of somebody that they haven't grown into and that's where you make the mistakes and you got to be careful and the other piece of it is that we change there was a time when I was a duplex guy and then there was a there was a time I was a cash-flow guy I'm not a cash-flow guy anymore because syndication is not a cash-flow play and that's a whole other conversation but I'm not that guy anymore but it took time to develop the intellectual worth to be able to see things from a different focal point so huh I wonder how do you balance between this idea of like I want to I want to grow I want to push myself to get to the next level but I also don't want to get out like I want to know myself and know what I'm capable of so how would you balance that between pushing to the next level you weren't a ninety eight unit kind of guy before right you were a a smaller of multifamily it's still like how do you know how to push yourself to that next level without getting over your head listen I don't know the answer to that question really you just know internally that's what I'm saying is pay attention to self and pay attention to your cycles because this is not something that you can necessarily rationalize this is just something you know internally where you are intellectually and spiritually and emotionally where you are you know I am not big on high fives on her raise and if I can do it you can do it maybe you can maybe you can't and that's fine we need both we need you and we need me you know that's okay you sure as hell can't be a sex panther okay how do you have been how do you know you're ready like you know you you just skipped from like jumping from a duplex to big big old 90 what was it 91 units I don't know what it was but nonetheless how does somebody know well it's not a hundred is what it's not so the question the question I have no this is this is a beginner show right so you're jumping and sub 100 units here obviously and so how does somebody know that they're even ready to start how about that since we're talking about start because my back was to the wall that's a very interesting conversation my partner Sam grooms left a big six-figure job with a publicly traded company as a CPA working directly with SEC to go into real estate I respect that a lot okay he left something there was a lot he could have lost by leaving I didn't I go on these podcasts and everybody tells me oh man your struggle you're a mess how much he had to overcome no I didn't have anything that I was losing my back was to the wall it was this or what so how do you know that you are ready you know that you already that's all I can tell you is you know that you are ready yeah and you never ready yeah when you put $200,000 cash on the line without a finance contingency not knowing if you're going to raise money to be able to close on the deal you only do that if you are ready to do that but that's how you know you're ready to do that because you do it deep make sense all right Ben well listen man you know you got to stop inhaling that perfume it's doing something to your head but thank you for your time before we let you go give us a book recommendation wait what do you what are you enjoying these days not this days the the the book that started everything for me was actually by Nickerson I think it's a William Nickerson how much five thousand and two five million or something like that it's called you can find it on it's an old book I don't know if it's been republished or what but I remember I got it out of library you know everybody talks about Rich Dad and you know all that all that is good and this is not an apartment book this is just a book of how you start with very little and how you bridge into a little more into a little more into that mindset of starting with a little and bridging finding a way to bridge the equity bridge your experience bridge your net worth that book started me looking for the answers basically love it's great it's awesome man all right well where can people connect with you at work and they find out more about you you mean besides bigger pockets they can email me through my website just ask Ben wide calm okay they can find me on Facebook or Twitter or something like that where is your local perfect store they can find you at your local perfume store listen I get it online it's black mark been good chatting good luck to you go for a hundred next time in little a little short this time Heisey Anna welcome back to the BiggerPockets podcast how are you great thanks for having me no tea so Josh was not on the last episode with you either was he I don't think no so Josh knows nothing Wow but you know now that it's public I'm screwed yeah we did we did meet at one of our bigger pockets meetups oh yeah and I remembered that shockingly like glitter glitter shimmering down your hair I thought I remember you saying that so very cool have fun I'm glad we're doing the interview now and next week so tell us who you are how'd you get it like what's your real estate kind of story and in the next like 60 seconds kiyo I'm Zanna McEntire and I do real estate through Airbnb so I now own six properties but I started with nothing and I was just renting out a room in the house that I was renting and then it kind of grew into renting a few different apartments and then I've also segwayed into managing homes for other people so now we manage on top of my six properties we manage another twenty all over the world so it's definitely something that's super doable to people from people that don't have any properties on their own and they can use other people's properties to get into it and build a whole bunch of savings and wealth through that and then they can segue into buying their own properties and you can do Airbnb just with you know a spare room in your house or in your basement so I think it's a really accessible tool for people that are wanting to get started perfect nice nice alright and and so what would what would be your tip then I mean what newbie tip might might be something along the lines of what you did but maybe not what would you recommend to somebody starting out I think it's really important to just get started and that's why everyone be such a great tool is that you don't need to own anything you generally live somewhere so you can start just renting out your room if you're on a trip or you go camping or whatever if you have a spare room you can make money off of that so just start renting that out fix up your basement rent the RV that's parked in your driveway like get creative I even know people that rent a tent in their backyard and they pay for like half their mortgage with that so yeah glamping I mean the rest of it all you know I could get around so they've got a property they've got a yard they've got a tent set up on the property are you in San Francisco okay this is in Colorado Springs and in Colorado Springs the camping you know the campgrounds just fill up it's so popular and so these people were like well let's see what the campgrounds charge they found out it was like 50 bucks a night and they're like sweet we open to open space let's just like put him here and say there's hiking trails they didn't even provide a tent they made them but they had a little fire pit and they provided like some s'mores fixings and that was it that's hysterical what I love about this idea right is like even if you can't afford to go buy a property like you said you probably have an extra bedroom even if you're renting you probably have extra bedroom and you're in you're right right it just it's doing something like because doing something is better than doing nothing right and even if it means a bedroom I mean actually my very first my very first that you would call rental I had a four-bedroom apartment I rented in college and I rented out all four bedrooms eventually I stopped on the couch and I was living here free I'm making money to live on the couch which you know I wouldn't do today but it was something right it was it was taking control of your finances versus being drug around so that works I mean III think that works pretty well when you're you know maybe in your 20s or or younger you know I don't know how many folks you know in 50 60 70 s want to necessarily rent out a room in their house to somebody what would you say to somebody in that position would it be similar advice er well it sort of depends because I found that a lot of empty nesters like miss having some younger people around and so they do like renting out their spare room but a lot of people have like separate entrance basement and that's the way to do it as like a grown-up is be like okay sweet you know let's just rent it out and then you don't even have to interact with the people you just provide them like a really thorough house manual and they know how to get in and yeah and you just do the cleans yourself if you want to go you know super basic so that's exactly what I just did it so we just bought a triplex in Maui right I'm gonna live in one unit I'll write the back you and I'm gonna rent out probably traditional rental because Hawaii is not real in love with vacation rentals but that the basement we'll probably just rent out on Airbnb if you know when people aren't coming to visit like you know friends a family but like I have been I have been in talks with Josh's wife and you are on my calendar for coming out so you may not know that but Josh you are actually booked you're my first book yes yes and you know how much I charged you know I'm gonna charge you a lot for that so anyways Anna you're invited out anytime and everybody listen to the show you're not in that's such a no but like I mean like the way I looked at that is it's gonna help to be able to live in a really cool area like in you can do that even if you live in a not cool area like the Iowa surprise I did a vacation rental for a short time and I was like in my area of a great Harbor Washington not a tourist area at all and I still had it booked like almost every single night because people does naturally travel whether or not it's to a vacation place or not have you found the same thing you're like have you found areas that are better or worse for vacation rentals well I think if you're in a city you just have more traffic in general and I like areas near college towns because there's just a lot happening with that there's a lot of events and there's a lot of students and parents and traveling professors so that's usually what I'm looking for hospitals also have a lot of traveling nurses so there's a lot going on there yeah but yeah recently I was in st. Louis and I did a little Meetup and there were some people in Illinois just over the river and I thought oh this is gonna be like a bustling little town it was nowhere it was a middle of nowhere and I went out there and they're booked all summer they have a little attic space that they converted and I was amazed that people were just totally in the boonies but they loved it so I just think it's so popular now that you can do it almost anywhere so you're saying you could take pretty much any kind of property in any kind of room and and this is true Brennan I mean look at look at the guy who works for us who has a trailer he bought a trailer lives in a condo bought a trailer moved into the trailer in Airbnb Z's house so it it's it's you know it's amazing I guess there's a demand to travel and and some people don't care where they are right yeah the coolest part about Airbnb is I know a lot of people that just have one unit and they live off of that and with traditional long-term you can't I mean I don't know I feel like no one can do that you know you if you're making only three to five hundred a month extra off your mortgage you need like tons of properties you need 15 properties to replace your income but a lot of people can do four or five thousand a month on Airbnb plus and then they go live in a van or they just travel full-time and so it is like I don't know it's a game changer really for real estate I think that's awesome so it's awesome give any tips I mean you've been managing your own and other people's now have any like simple tips about managing like things that people just get wrong like just real quick like this would make your experience a whole lot better pricing software I like switched to that I for the longest time was like I know better than anyone I'm gonna just do all my prices and then I got too many listings and I thought okay finally I'll pay for it and pricing software I swear gave me like 70% more I mean there's just dates that I would have never expected or prices that I thought was way too high it would never book for and it does and so that's like really been a game-changer so even if you have one listing I'm like pay for it it's cost it's only like 1% but when you think of all the different software's you're just kind of go like Oh everybody takes a percentage what am I gonna have at the end so I was a little hesitant at first but man I really made a difference that's awesome that's awesome yeah cool and and last last question here is how much work is it actually to manage these properties so you know I'm excited I want to rent a room I want to rent my garage my basement whatever it is but how much time are you actually spending doing that and obviously you're doing more than just one but you know for somebody getting started what would that be if it's just in your house I don't think it has to be that time-consuming but it is you're kind of taking on a side hustle there's a part time job associated with it because there is guest communication when you have as many as I do it's almost less work because there's so many different automations that you can do but yeah I think around like three to five it becomes like a part-time job and you really have to think about it like this is hospitality it's not long-term I've got to be like turning it all the time and and then it also really depends if you're cleaning it or not cuz cleaning obviously can be a lot of work and so even if it's one bedroom in your house yeah maybe it's half an hour but like are you available in the middle of the day so like leave work and come and clean the house so you know cuz people generally check out at like 11:00 or 12:00 so they're just kind of things like that that you have to think like do I really have the flexibility to do this yeah yeah the one's great the one vacation went till I had for a while out here in Grays Harbor I ended up not doing it after a while I sold the property because it just ended up being like you said with one property I didn't have those efficiencies to be able to handle like numerous yeah so like all that work for one I probably could had 10 and had almost no more work if not less work because of that and so I said I probably wouldn't get back into it unless I had a large enough volume to make it worthwhile but then again I'm at a different point in my investing right like I have a hundred other properties to take care of so like that one was taking up too much of my time but if I was getting started over again or if I bought a place in Hawaii like I'd do it of course because I just it like you do what you got to do to get started so that's a fan lift for free in Hawaii nobody could do yeah I'm gonna do so cool all right well what about uh you want to ask a Josh you look like you were gonna ask it I don't want to take your thunder well I'm not the host anymore so you know I I don't I don't get to boss you around at least on the show so but yeah I'll take this one so what book recommendations do you have ooh you said recommendations recommendation one for me I'll give you two nicer guy than Josh but what I want to say is never slip the difference because I think negotiation and life is huge and I've found out about that book from listening to your podcast so Chris boss was on there and it was incredible so that's one of those books that like by the time I was done reading I wanted to start reading it again because it's just so meaty and I wanted to really ingrain those skills so I will have to revisit it that's the second time that's been mentioned on this podcast that's great good I wanted to also talk about way of the Peaceful Warrior so I know everybody wants to talk about business books and I think that in business it's like if you want to have a spiritual awakening start your own business because it's really all about you it's about your limits your beliefs and like you getting your stuff straight and so if you don't have your yourself in check about like what is possible then you're not going to grow and so that book is all about like the magic of what you can create you know and believing in yourself so anyway it's a really good book but it's more spiritual cool thank you I've not read it excellent you know hey work where can people find you ze ona McIntyre's MC int why re and I have a blog and other podcasts lots of recommendations for software good spot alright good deal well thank you Anna very much we'll talk to you again soon appreciate it alright Anson welcome to the show man it's good to have you good to have you guys this is a real treat to have both of you here in my life again you know that's what people usually say when they get me and Josh together they're like that's a treat where it's we're not going anywhere no I know you're not going anywhere but like a virus all right so Anson has been on the BiggerPockets podcast not once not twice but three times episode 34 96 and 235 he also wrote a book for bigger pockets called finding and funding great deals right all right I know decent medium decent thing alright so for those who have not heard you though tell us who you are and what are you in real estate you have one minute go all right so I live in Denver I am a fixin flipper a wholesaler whole Taylor I'm also licensed or the occasional licensed stuff right now I'm working on expanding and refining systems here I'm expanding out into other markets and getting into long term cash flow which Brandon's been kicking my butt about for years now so it's true that's uh that's my focus for the next year but I'm still doing fix and flip still doing that thing go excellent oh that's great all right so today's show we're talking to people about their best tips and so we'd love to hear what is your number one tip for newbies other than don't let your wife cut your hair that's a good job I just don't style it very well right you've got a good foundation he's just not doing enough with it so my number one mmm my number one I'm gonna cheat a little and I'm gonna say is to be specific and persistent and so inside of there you know I want you know I want to understand I want to instill in the newbies that you have to stick with it and you have to have this consistency thing that people talk about and then the the persistent piece I'm sorry the specific piece would be a laser focus and I know I've talked about this before a little bit but when I started out I didn't have a laser focus it was like shiny objects everywhere and of course when you're starting out you can read you know ten different BiggerPockets books you know 20 different forum things and then you have 30 things that you're trying to go pursue but you laser focus on one thing let's say it's wholesaling and you run after it with consistency you're gonna be successful you can go on to those shiny objects once you've kind of mastered and made some money in that laser focused niche yeah it's a pic-a-nic niche pick a strategy niche niche good bless you and then focus on that and and and go you know just go go all out learn everything you can is that kind of what you're saying and then yeah exactly exactly I was like that laser focus and then you have to stick consistent you can't just you know try it out for a month and see if it's for you and then quit because it didn't work out in that month you got a yeah you gotta devote some time and effort and energy over a long run for that to work out you know I I heard this really good analogy one time it was like this guy was talking with there's two islands right you live on one island and then there's like they call it like Paradise Island or you know whatever there's like reality Island and like dream island we'll call it right and he's like everything you do like for example wholesaling or you're gonna start an Amazon business or you're going to whatever doesn't matter anything you're trying to do for financial freedom he's like building a bridge and it takes a long time to build that bridge from one island to the other but what people do is they build half the bridge and then they're like man that's taken a long time so they go back to the beginning they start building another bridge and then another and some people have dozens of bridges started across this thing but they never do it or of instead if they just focused on one bridge they would get there and then they could go play with as many bridges as they want to at that point because they've got they got the one done I really that may be impact when I heard that no it's huge and you can branch off from that new Island yeah and that new Island might be you know find financial security or you know making more in a month than some people do in a year and that gives you so many more options at that point you could build that bridge to you know long-term wealth or forever cash flow or you know more Amazon businesses or whatever you want yeah I I think far too many people in entrepreneurship and you know make no mistake being a real estate investor is being an entrepreneur I I think far too many people fail because they quit and and you know that seems pretty obvious but they quit before they had a chance to get anywhere and and you know it's this instant gratification thing that we've got right hey if I didn't get there in five minutes or on my first try then I'm gonna I'm gonna give up well guess what the people who are the most successful in this world and real estate and everything else to the people who struggled and got there and we're willing to fight it out right well you know I actually tell people about this all Josh all the time right let me look at Josh like he's not a very good-looking guy not you know intelligent a little more for me you know yeah he's got really nothing going for but honestly the fact that Josh like we're to his basement for like ten years before I ever even like emerged into like somewhat helping Josh like Josh like your persistence on that one thing is what made you successful that's why ninety percent does fail they wouldn't have done what you did answer how does the same thing about you like you've been flipping forever now and like most people wouldn't have gotten through those tough first years yeah exactly and in even on even on this you know that that's kind of like the long-term strategy but even in the tiny things on a day to day business like they'll you know someone will say hey I tried Direct Mail it didn't work well how many did you send and and how often did you send and who did you send it to and like oh I sent five hundred out one time and then they quit yep yeah and of course you're not gonna see results there you're not you're not pushing that snowball down the hill to gain that momentum and so and it's what that was like oh I tried networking and it didn't work well did you see when two lawyers at hi and you walked away yeah exactly so I went to the gym one time and I didn't get a six-pack installs like this sucks I thought man yeah they'll I don't know even two great clips one you're like myself alright my question to you then is take us off of my hair when is when do you grit and when do you quit I like that phrase right when to when to quit I didn't make that up I heard that in a book but like how do you know when like listen even working at wholesaling for two years and like you've just not made any money or you've been federal in for two years three years at what point how do you know you've done enough that it just is not gonna work out for you you don't have the personality or the luck or whatever that's no that's a great question and I love I love that grit concept I think that Angela Duckworth a great book is one of my favorites from last year that whole that whole concept in that's and that's important right when when to throw in the towel and I think I think if you're doing the right things if you're if you're if you're if you're taking the right actions with the right consistency I don't see a way that you can honestly fail yeah so there must be something in your process or something that you're doing that is not creating the results that you want and so before throwing in the towel I would definitely get with somebody who's more successful than you bigger pockets is a great I not not just to keep plugging this platform but knocking on concept this this concept of a nationwide network is something that I've been formulating in my head of where I kind of saw it turn in my own business is this nationwide network of investors when I can call somebody in Portland and talk business about fixing flip it's different than sitting down and talking to someone you know across the coffee table here in Denver because I'm not a threat to the guy in Portland I mean technically I'm not a threat to the guy I'm in Denver either there's enough business to go around but when when you can sit down and and and have a phone conversation with somebody who can open up their entire books and say this is exactly what I'm doing is this exactly who I'm mailing this is what I'm sending it's huge and so I would I would recommend to for throwing in the towel try and try and get help inside your processes because it could be as simple as oh you're mailing the wrong list or you're talking to the wrong people yeah yeah no that's really really great advice and and I would say I I concur uh uh yeah you know I I've had some of the smart people on the planet supposedly tell me to quit you know early early in on the business and I I knew you know that I would be successful despite what they thought and so you know that's not always true but you know as long as you continue to make headway and progress I just can't see failure as an option but that's that's me right I mean I think a lot of people who like you mentioned this word process and I love that's one my favorite words like my favorite concentrate like everything comes down to a process that we do right everything in our life is like a process like you don't have a six-pack because you're not doing the right process right and not you I mean you have amazed in the six-pack of obvious seen it but like you don't have a six-pack because you're at dinner a process you're not a successful wholesaler or a flipper or a rental owner because you're not doing the right process so yeah get that process nailed down and then figure out why are you not doing the process correctly like how many deals are you offering on Oh none what weird you didn't get any accepted because you didn't offer on any like how many did you analyze oh you didn't analyze any well of course you didn't offer any because you didn't you know like it's like these processes that anyway so I think that's perfect you get with somebody else who can who can expose what you're doing wrong in the process yeah I mean this this isn't rocket science I mean there's formulas out there of how to create a successful you know whatever wholesaling business fix and flip whatever you want to do if you're not having success there's something wrong with what you're doing first of all and then people just I think they throw in the towel too early I mean if they're if they're going to years with no results they should have you know a year and a half ago got help yep you know that's great that's great awesome Anton thank you so much for the insight before we let you go what would you say besides grit would be your new book recommendation alright so for people so this is thanks to Brandon I think Brendan bouchard's high-performance habits was my favorite book this year yeah and I've been trying to dig really deep into that book and into into him as an author and speaker and all the things that he does I feel like he gets that kind of process and his process is how would it become a high performer and and a lot of concepts in that book are stuff I haven't read regurgitated in a bunch of other books which by now there's a lot of regurgitation going on but that was a nice is a nice it was a fresh look at kind of that whole concept and so thanks for that recommendation Brandon I think I saw it on Instagram or something so it's an amazing book yeah I do excellent actually alright man well before we let you go where can people get in touch how can they reach out to you and usually I just point people toward with my BiggerPockets profile so just look up Anson young on bigger pockets and you'll find me there somewhere perfect Am I and you can just reach out send me a message and we'll link up from there excellent excellent all right man well thanks so much for coming on we really appreciate it you guys again it's a treat Oh always a treat all right Anson all right dr. meadows how you doing man good to have you back on the show well I'm really appreciate the opportunity thanks for having me back yeah so what have you been up to I mean it's been a while you were on out on number you were a while ago so what do you been up to since you were last on the show well you know continuing to number one work full-time as a physician oncologist but I certainly continue to invest I think a little over a year ago as on the show and at that time I had seven single family rentals which has since grown to ten nice so still acquiring some properties in a my main Jacksonville market continued to do a lot of private lending both online and off so flipping some houses got lots of crowdfunding projects going on most are doing okay some have not and they're they're working themselves out so that's that's been it and you know of course do an occasional podcast promotion of my book and you know that's that's that's enough man what's the book called the books called alternative financial medicine and it basically chronicles my my path into investing in alternative assets of which real estate is a big portion of it but also some other stuff you know like peer-to-peer lending and that kind of stuff they'll try that a bunch of different things yeah super cool super cool let's get to the the topic of today's show which of course is advice for new investors advice for people just starting out they want to buy the first deal what do you got what are you gonna tell those people well you know for me you know when it comes down to it finding an in-person mentor okay you know I'm an academic at heart so I know how to really study a topic and so I read all the the classic books like Rich Dad Poor Dad and everything but it was time to pull the trigger I really felt like I needed an in-person mentor you know much like medicine right no matter how much schooling you get in the classroom you got to do a residency or you're working underneath a doctor and so I was like let me let me find somebody who's out there doing this rental thing doing this house flipping thing that I can talk to see how it actually works and and talk to people that have invested with them so that that was the main confidence step for me that's cool yeah I mean it's so it's like almost like a lost art right like back in the day everybody was a pretty like a Prentiss was like how you do it right you were a black boy and that kind of it kind of went away I don't know over the last you know whatever you know we're you know we're in such this information age right where I think people and it's great but but I think people sometimes can delude themselves into thinking like hey man I'll just take an online course or just watch youtube videos or this and that but you cannot replace that that one-on-one you know what life mentoring why it in person mentor I mean why not just pay that you know fifty thousand dollars from some guy you know on TV and why somebody in person well to be honest with you I mean part of my education was discovering you guys podcast and while you guys always are you wouldn't totally slam the sort of gurus out there selling courses I got the sense that it that wasn't a necessary step to go it seemed like most of the comments in that regard like you don't necessarily go that route because you know I certainly considered it I had the financial means to do it but I'm like okay let me find somebody like local who's not a guru and it's just maybe interested in in educating an investor that might wind up partnering with them and stuff like that yeah so you guys have had something to do with that yeah I mean like I I do know people who have paid very expensive like you know paid mentorians up and some have worked out just fine some of them people spend a lot of money and are not in real estate right now well right and for some and for some people right some people need to spend over a certain threshold where like they've got that much invested and they in it they're gonna take action because they out laid that much amount of money yeah so for some people and I know that I know people like that too but I didn't you know I didn't feel like I needed to kind of overpay but but I certainly thought that just getting around somebody and it wasn't even so much a monetary thing I I demonstrated that I had studied a lot on my own and that I was willing to like do deals as long as I could get some comfort level and they were more than willing to sit down with me and and and walk me through things so yeah yeah that's that's so true so why I should say why would a mentor like from their standpoint want to work with somebody like if somebody's listened to the show and they're like well I want to go and work with somebody I got nothing I'm not bringing in a table right I'm just gonna waste their time why would a mentor want to work with somebody who's new well now I will say this right I mean if you come up to them and you haven't demonstrated that you have like any value to bring meaning like after a few minutes of talking with these prospective mentors it was obvious to them I had studied about what it meant to be a landlord what it meant to be a private lender I knew at least the lingo and all that kind of stuff so that that that gave them comfort and ease to say okay well this guy's actually pretty motivate he's a physician for God's sake he certainly didn't have didn't have to like learn about this so they took me very seriously now if you don't have like money or expertise but if you demonstrate like hey I'm willing to do whatever the most kind of like grunt work II kind of thing that you have it's it's mailing out letters if it's calling people all that kind of unglamorous kind of stuff I think if you tell somebody upfront you're willing to do that that that's that's tremendous value too yeah you know so you got to have something no because people get hit up all the time for people that want some of their time and expertise and let's just be honest I mean it's valuable so you know they want they want something to reciprocate you know yeah that's that's sure even if you don't think you have value you probably have something you have some grunt work you can do if nothing else and just you said just having the education like showing that you've at least done something so far to research and you've learned you're not just relying on them for a free ride trying to teach you everything right that's a lot of Mister people make that mistake they're looking for a mentor to teach them versus guide them and then ironically to it kind of like the highest level like these people that are like you know really awesome real estate entrepreneurs like when it comes to folks like me that might be like a money partner like like at the highest level they don't even want uneducated money partners they want people to know like what could go wrong in the deal and that kind of thing and so they don't even they won't even work with you unless you have some degree of education because they don't want to have to explain if things go wrong like what happened you know to that degree you know what I mean so yeah all right so the big question where do you find a mentor what are you where does somebody who's new even find experienced real estate investors well you know asking around you know in in in like anybody in my social circle and believe it or not you know things got started with a pastor of mine who actually knew a real estate investor like that that was kind of a surprising route but of course I went to my first couple of real estate investor association meetings which I have never gone to before and asked around about you know who are the kind of serious players in there because we know at most Ria's most of the people at areia are not doing a whole lot of deals but find out who the serious folks are there and that that's kind of where it where it branched off from yeah yeah it was a lot of asking around mm-hmm that's really what it is right it's asking around it's being open absolutely yeah like I I had a mentor in person mental named Kyle right he was my best friend's landlord and so like I went painted houses for him for a summer and like did a few houses and did it cheap I mean I was painting houses for 300 bucks a pop like because like I just wanted his I wanted his friendship and that actually like right what best piece of advice I ever got from mentors is stop thinking about mentor in terms of mentor think friend how do you build a friendship with somebody who's experienced yeah yeah like that pastor thing like you know you know how it came about like and he was it was key like his connections he just kind of mentioned in passing that he didn't take a salary from the church and so I asked him afterwards like well how do you support yourself oh I got some rentals and missing at night I do some private lending and it's like okay tell me about that you know and you just never know yeah yeah that's so true one more thing I've noticed with mentors is people oftentimes will look and they'll say well you know the first thing it says well I need a mentor and what I find is sometimes people use that almost as an excuse not to take action right because they don't want to go read the book or they don't want to do anything so they just keep saying well I don't have a mentor so I can't do anything what do you say to those people that you know like you said Matt that that is that's a cop-out I mean come on I mean if you're if you're really motivated and everything you're gonna find a way and and again you're gonna do some prep work and and have an approach I think and so that that's that's no excuse absolutely not they're all out over to place yeah well this is this is fantastic I mean I did the mentorship it's super super important very vital I think it's a great tip you brought up so before I let you go let's jump into kind of a last question I'm asking everybody this week what like what book recommendation do yeah baby this is one you've recommended before the show may be something brand new you've read you have any good book recommendations to through our audience I mean Rich Dad Poor Dad been said to death there was a but but but but honestly from a mindset standpoint to think about you know your relationship to to money and capital and time and everything it's great the the building wealth one house at a time I forget the authors Johnny Wright I think yes yes because you know that book was instrumental and me honing in on like okay I'm gonna do the single family thing like I'm not gonna do apartments I'm not gonna do you know anything you know so that was that was key for me yeah that's perfect I love it alright well dr. meadows it's been fantastic again like man we feel a lot more time but we had a lot of interviews to do today so thank you so much for joining us and you know where can people get in touch where can they reach out to you well you know the book is available amazon alternative financial mehta and blogsite of the same thing alternative financial medicine dot-com perfect that idea we'll talk to you later mr. David greens hello stop what what what hold on I'm gonna do this you take David Greene you come in and take over my show like you're some hot stuff guy I'm gonna turn the tables on you buddy well I'd be just to be honest you made it so easy you basically like warmed up the seat all I had to do is step into something that was already working you set me up really nicely so I did yeah and it wasn't hard to make it any better so I set the bar really low we are we are flipping the script again today on David he is no longer today he is not the host he's a guest today though my host I don't know you already go I think I'm gonna be host today you can be host today I'll be co-host today it's fine yeah only if you need that if you need that yeah you don't have the facial hair or the height or the good look so you might as well take on the Iron Throne and Brandon is just basically playing Tyrion right now he's suggesting all right David Green who are you for those for those who have not listened to the show before which would be weird didn't listen this episode and not listened to show but maybe not maybe this is a first-timer who are you David Green and besides being the regular host or assistant to the host of the BiggerPockets podcast who are you what do you see the reader right great I play Brandon sidekick on TV I'm here color commentary the al borland his Tim Allen every once in a while I say something somewhat intelligent or at least I tried to former police officer now a real estate agent hosts the podcast real estate investor I pretty much love all things real estate so I'm excited to talk to you yesterday awesome I was great ortus that was like the shortest of all this he's practiced he's practiced yeah yeah awesome all right David so what is your best tip for new real estate investors so if you read the book the one thing in chapter 2 they talked about the domino effect which is a theory based on geometric progression and the theory is that a domino well this is getting too many three syllable words let's keep this to like third grade level come on okay do you met your prince and explain the theory is that one inch domino can knock down another domino that's one and a half times bigger than itself so one is Domino can knock down a two and a half inch Domino which can knock down a 3.75 inch Domino and so forth by the 31st Domino is the size about Everest so the point would be you can typically knock down something 50% bigger than what you did the last time you did something but we never assume we never think that by the 31st Domino would be so big it could be taller than Mount Everest right and newbies get stuck trying to plan out every step of their journey I'm gonna do this and then this and then this and I need you bigger pockets to spell this out perfectly so I know exactly where I'm going and I will never make a mistake and the reality is life never works that way you don't know what your next Domino will look like until you knock down the once in front of you and you don't know how big it will be and you may think I could never knock down something that big but you're looking at yourself on Domino too well when you're on Domino 30 Mount Everest is totally something you can take down so don't get in your own way by thinking too much about how am I gonna do this when it's like 10 steps down the road you just gotta get step 1 crush it in that then start looking for your next step and crush it at that you can really simplify this whole process by saying I need to Excel where I am and look for my next step and then Excel where that is before the next one that's really good I have nothing to say I made the right move all right all right I got some questions asked on this so we got questions yes that's great and you got to read that book guys I mean one thing if you haven't read it if you're in any form of entrepreneurial venture I mean you got another anything in life you got to read that book so me and me and David green here actually like two weeks ago I got to like which I know Josh you've hung out with him before but I had not got to go hang out with Jay Pappas in like you know co-author of the one thing in person down in Austin and it was like I had to hold in my inner fangirl the whole time which was fantastic so yeah definitely check that book out okay so we're talking about like when people get started they get overwhelmed everyone's like oh how am I gonna do it you know Brandon Josh David Green now or you know I need with the other people they hear on the podcast to read their books too because they get overwhelmed but really you're just saying they got to do that first show so I'm wondering how important is that first deal David like I mean like do they need to get a home run the first deal to inspire them to do more do they just need do anything I got what's your opinion on that hey really quick before you even answers yes what what are you you know cuz I interpreted you're saying is not being the first deal as I interpreted it as being the first step towards the first deal and so obviously I was right right I was just gonna say well obviously your interpretation was incorrect so alright so the first deal might be the fourth Domino you don't know exactly where in that in that chain it is right your first deal might just be getting over your fear of like agoraphobia and going to a meet-up where you hear other people talk right or it might be conquering this idea that you think that I'm not worthy of wealth I don't want to be wealthy because that's I don't deserve that and you have to tackle that right the point is once you've overcome that issue your next issue which will well I don't have my finances under control is a lot easier because you've already determined that you're worthy of wealth and you have the motivation you need to take the next step and once your finances are under control you'll feel this desire like man I really want to go invest something I got all this cash makes it easy to go buy your first deal I actually wouldn't I I did too but I want to jump in next I don't really ever talk now you should write a book for bigger pockets someday you should actually write a book on like long distance real estate investing and you could publish it at bigger pockets comtesse store and get it today but anyway you like I'm wondering about the about the not being worthy of success reality we've ever talked about that on the show before but that's a legitimate fear or I don't have a fear of a feeling that people have what can you expand on that for a minute yeah that's huge I mean most of us everybody wants the tactical advice like show me the step-by-step process to buy a house and the problem is it's never the same for everybody so you really can't you're asking for something you can't have and even if you had it it wouldn't do you any good cuz you wouldn't probably follow it if you had what it takes to follow that you would have already been started on that journey without waiting for it right most of the problems is between our two ears and the demons that we struggle with regarding our own worthiness how smart we are preconception preconceived ideas we have about wealth being bad or a fear of risk like we just interviewed Annie Duke who wrote throughout the book thinking in bets and she was all about you have to change the relationship you have with risk from risk is bad avoid it too risk is everywhere how do I mitigate it how do I kind of like write it like a wave rather than just avoid it because the wave might knock me off so that I think for most people the first step is understanding that you are your own biggest enemy it's not that property manager that sucked it's not the agent that didn't return your call it's the mindset you're bringing into this that you don't have the eye of the tiger you don't have that whatever it takes I'm gonna do this you're not willing to do the steps that it would need to take and that true domino right maybe seven steps in you get your first rental property and then three dominoes later you're buying a hundred unit complex that happens all the time for people that take this journey so my advice to the newbies would be stop thinking that what you need is someone to hold your hand and walk you through this you need to start looking at how you can untap your own potential that makes you special and use that for the purposes of real estate investing I love that man I really really love that I I just read this this awesome book by Jesse it's Larry called thirty days with a seal probably the funniest book I've ever read and I'm trying to trying to link up with that guy so if you know Jesse please put me in touch but yeah you know Jesse's this a successful businessman and he does this endurance racing and he comes across this guy the specimen who's just blew his mind and invites the guy to come than for 30 days a Navy SEAL and the hooks it's not weird the book is hysterical but it's also motivating the the interesting thing is the Navy SEAL that he invited has this fascinating story where you know he was I'm gonna butcher the story a little bit but he was in the military I mean the guy was like 300 pounds he was a hot mess had you know lived this really really hard life and he decided one day that you know he wasn't gonna live that life anymore he made the decision and and that's what people who are listening to the show need to do they have to make that decision the decision is the first step this guy went from being this overweight guy who just you know low self-esteem all these issues to becoming he's he's the Guinness world record holder on pull-ups I mean he's an ultra you know endurance racer literally I think they named him the fittest man on earth and it was a decision that he said I'm not gonna let anything stop me I'm going to be successful no matter what gets in my way no matter what happens and that's it that's what takes I mean that is really all that it takes is that decision and once you've done that you just go well once he decided I'm going to do this no matter what it takes I guarantee you he started surrounding himself by people like that Navy SEAL who also had that same mentality and it started bleeding into him so for a lot of people that tree domino go find other people that aren't making excuses that are holding themselves so high standard like a Josh did you ever read extreme ownership the Jocko Willing book another name is not good one yeah that's his whole theories everything is my fault if something happened and someone else screwed it up it's my fault because I didn't train them better or I didn't monitor them more closely and what happens is you start improving yourself when you look at everything like it's your fault and you get the benefit of all that self-improvement and putting yourself around people who think the same way is guaranteed to bleed over into the way you think and act and believe absolutely absolutely awesome and so domino one is get yourself together figure out what you're going to do get motivated make the decision and do it there you go and then you don't know where that Domino path is gonna take you but you know that if you can push yourself to get 50% bigger on every single single next step that you take so crush it at the step you're at see what doors open and then go focus on crushing it there I love it all right well right mr. David Green do you have any recent book recommendations you want to throw out the audience today yeah so good they can't ignore you awesome book I love everything about it the author details the difference between people who have I can't remember what he calls it but it's this mindset that the world owes them this is my dream and everybody else should work to fund it right I want to quit my job because I don't like it real estate owes it to me to go make me wealthy so that I can retire early versus the craftsman mindset which says I'm gonna get so good at what I'm doing that I can name my price and I can do whatever I want because I bring so much value everywhere I go nobody would ever tell me no and you can create the life that you want right that's what I would tell people to go read especially if you're struggling with getting started the problem might be you're looking to buy a house before you have a million other things in your life won't even have a million but a lot of other things in your life squared away and that book can put you on the path to having the right mindset I love it cool awesome man well where can people find you besides the BiggerPockets podcast you can check me out at green income com it's a blog where I post some of the deals that I'm doing and articles I've written and stuff like that i'm on instagram at david green 24 it's another good place to add me boston David thank you for letting me chime in and and and host today I appreciate it and you're doing an amazing job and seriously like you are absolutely outstanding so keep it up Thank You Josh I appreciate that Brandon thanks you too men thank you bye bye Arianne welcome back to the BiggerPockets podcast I'm hey thanks for having me back yeah so you are I believe you're actually the very first possibly second I can't remember interview in our new book that comes out that kind of a case study that we put in the book so yes it's kind of cool so most people yeah or exciting listening yeah so because I love your story that's why I put it there cuz I love I love hearing your story what you did and how you've built your empire so that's what we're gonna talk a little bit about today and then get into some newbie tips so why don't we start there like in the next like minute or so like who are you what do you do what's your real estate thing okay cool I Marianne Lemire my husband and I Chris his name is we have a flipping and wholesaling business in Destin Florida and we also own a 24 unit rental to fool you here excellent super cool very cool all right so Josh you wanna ask you I'm gonna ask no it's not sure what I say about you so criterion is a very experienced real estate investor who's done lots of different things obviously you know what it's like to get started so tell us what is your top tip for newbies looking to get started in real estate investing my top tip I think for people starting out they need to remember that this business is a marathon and not a sprint so block time daily to take one action and then this could be as small as five minutes each day just make sure it's every day you could like look at a property and then analyze just one property do a quick analysis in five minutes and then if you do that consistently every day soon enough that'll become a habit and then use that habit as your foundation to build on and that's really where I think success in this business comes from like daily consistent action will lead to great results but build on it yeah and you know what that goes for any business I in fact Brandon and I you know had to write this book and this is earlier today I was like Brandon we should write that other book we've been talking about writing for a long time and you know as I've been thinking about it like well what does it take to write a book you sit down your block time and write every single day and it doesn't matter you know if it's good or bad you just got to do it right like the result of what you get done is semi irrelevant as long as you're doing it right and making forward progress I actually just read a an article in The New York Times with an older one but it was John Grimm who was published like right and he has a rule and it's right one I think it's one page a day like if he can consistently write one page a day he can pump out he's average like you know 1.3 books per year for the past 30 years or something like that it's crazy like he's like I just have to publish at least one page or write one page per day it's the same kind of time oh I think if they're you know if you're out there and you're thinking hey what am I gonna get my first deal well we should ask you what have you done every day to get your first deal right so really results happen when you do the actions and Brent you know Brandon gives these webinars where we we talk about he talks about a lot of these acts and actions that you can take but I you know we're not interviewing him we're interviewing you so you know you had talked about analyzing deals what what other actions could a a newbie real estate investor take every single day in addition to what you've already mentioned to get them on the path towards getting that first deal another one is like I'm an introvert so it's actually hard for me to kind of pick up the phone and talk to people so I think like if that's you like do that one that might be the hardest thing do it first thing in the morning right like call like one broker or one wholesaler or where another investor and talk to them about what properties might be coming into their pipeline that maybe they can't handle or if it's an agent you know that they think would fit your investment criteria and just do it every day and you'll be amazed at like how many deals start coming into your pipeline if you just do that one small action that really might just take 2-3 minutes yeah but area and I don't know any agents or brokers or wholesalers what do i do then um I suggest using bigger pockets or Google and you'll find some people who are in your area that are active you can also go to your local real estate investment club and then just find the active agents and wholesalers there yeah it's good and of course if people go to bigger pockets that calm slash events they can see local meetups happening all around the country all the time and don't you do some of the events did every go we actually have one coming up next week but this'll air so you put on an event because just so we can network with more people and I think bigger pockets is great but having that physical interaction with people like just solidifies the connections we make yeah yeah that's another thing you can do guys if there's no networking events in your area if you don't know folks or you can't find anything whether it be on bigger pockets or elsewhere start your own yeah I started our first networking event on bigger pockets like when we just did like one or two deals so it's not like you have to be yeah we're like just put people together and you'll make things happen so Jenny give any tips for people who maybe want to do that maybe they don't have a good meetup in their area or they want to start their own like what's worked for you what hasn't worked for you um so I just picked like a local cafe that let us like hang out there for a couple hours after work hours during the week we do it every Tuesday 6 to 8 then I put it on bigger pockets on the events page and some other local networking page and usually we actually have about 20 plus people that's awesome and the beauty is you're at the middle of the network now right you're the host and so you get to kind of grow your brand so to speak you can become that connector yes you know it just developed some brand recognition especially we flip and hold seance on some sometimes the wholesaling has a bad rap but if they can know that you're a pitiable person and you're somewhat in a position where you're actually hosting these meetups then you can talk to people more and they can see that you're a trustworthy person awesome tastic yeah so do you have you have any other daily actions that people could jump on right now to help them get to that first deal um so at I talk about analyzing details calling brokers wholesalers other flippers one thing I started doing actually is like setting up a daily task list for myself so I write down everything I want to do because we all have like a hundred things you want to do and then I prioritize the most the one that's the hardest and that'll give us the most like I guess bang for the buck in terms of the action so I start doing that and then now I can get like before I would start on the easier actions right and now when I start on the harder ones that give us the most return on time then like it just takes my business so much further yeah that's a great that is an incredible tip I mean so many people do that right you put your checklist you start writing down things like oh here let me do the easy things first because it it's easy right and I do you guys ever like do this thing where I like add an item to my checklist that I already did just so I can check it off that's pretty no I like okay I think I do today make checklist okay good I got now enjoys it I don't know anyway I have a tendency to want to do the easiest things first like make a checklist and you know brush my teeth on that checklist but no like I if you consistently work on the hard problems the ones that are actually important for moving your business forward yeah yeah that's huge I love that sorry you might help you a checklist where you're like make business cards make a logo call broker yeah right write an offer like if you have those four things you should probably write an offer first enjoy your book before making your business cards in your logo yeah yeah yeah business cards and logo definitely are like way down the food chain in terms of importance it's get that deal right I mean don't you I'm not a business don't worry about being a business like get that deal and then you can worry about you know getting that business going yes income producing actions first oh there's a so there's a thing called the Seinfeld strategy have you heard of that before it's kind of cool I have not but this sounds amazing I'm super excited he's like alright so sorry yeah okay so good job that you're good job all right so Jerry Seinfeld once told somebody said this is like the myth anyway that he told this guy who was an up-and-coming comedian in the community ask him how do I you know get famous like you and he said he's a very simple strategy for doing that he Josh is showing his dog licking his face into the camera and now licking his mouth now josh is literally tongue licking the dog no well you kind of work alright so Jerry says look the life Brett of any life blood of any comedian is to have the best jokes but most jokes fall flat and so the only way to have a consistent good career is you have to have a lot of jokes so said what I do is I take out a big board you know poster board and I put a bunch of boxes all over it and then a big red marker and every day that I write at least one joke I put a big red X on on that day right and if I miss it I just leave that box blank so he's like over time you start building like if you start writing joke every day your goal is the right one every day once you have four five ten 20 exes in a row your only job is don't break the chain so like you've got to keep you you see that big visual you know red X's on your page and you or on your on your board or whatever and you don't want to break that so it goes back to your like do something daily like it's far more important to go to the gym every day for 20 minutes then it would be to go to the gym once a month for three hours right right and I like that visual because then you get to see yeah I'm actually working this is actually the first I'll mention it but we're working on a journal that's going to come out a real estate investors Success Journal probably yeah it's coming out here later this year anyway in there I specifically put in a bunch of those pages of just blank check boxes cuz like I love that concept of don't break the chain so that's like the Apple watch it's it's the Rings and the Apple watch yeah yeah you know you want to get your daily rings complete last night I was literally like I had like 13 14 thousand steps but Apple makes it even harder because you have to like yeah you have to do all these things to get these rings closed and I had only exercised 28 minutes so I hit my watch I said that I'm now exercising and doing an inside walk and I started walking around the house just to get my extra two minutes of course Apple's smarter than that and after six minutes of walking around the house said I didn't go anywhere or do anything I accomplished nothing because I was going too slow and I wasn't actually doing this workout so good good for Apple on that same thing like it's it's this motivation to knock it out so yeah get out there make it happen start analyzing deals start calling people start networking go out look at properties I mean there's so many things you can do every single day even if it's five minutes a day and you know within a few days or weeks you'll be well on your way to make a move mm-hmm look at that Josh sums it up all right area what do you have a book recommendation that you can throw our audience something you've read recently or something impacted your life yes I think this one's really good for people who are starting out set for life French Scotch I've heard of that go Canada that guy yeah he's kind of you know whatever running I just really loved how Scott explains the process and really he goes from zero to financial freedom but there it breaks it down in like three parts also so what I really like the Moses I feel like this topic doesn't get covered a lot like going from zero to your first like 25k I think that's where people struggle and I actually started from negative I had like student loan debt and nobody covers it because it's not a sexy topic like you've never almost hear it then like quad gas or books or wherever it cuz like who wants to talk about that but I think he has some great actionable steps because that's really your foundation to build this financial freedom if you don't have that I feel like sometimes people might get like a big deal and they never started from actually building their own financial foundation I feel like it just goes away so I think that's a very important part perfect yeah Scott ranch president of bigger pockets yeah yeah a big deal no no yes cool well thank you so much for coming on the show how where can people reach out and get in touch with you I'm always on my BiggerPockets profile so I think we'll put a link on the show notes I can also email me at our EA RI at gh houses.com um thing that's that's it perfect thank you very much for being here today alright thanks Brandon thanks Josh all right Andrew welcome to the show man it's good to have you back good to be back nice to see you here too I disappointed Brandon didn't where is handsome shirt for you know I have a shirt you know today's whole show is like let's rip on Brandon this is great alright I want to discuss who you are I mean people don't know who you are some people I mean you've been on the show what like 40 times now so for those who have not heard you who are you what do you do Andrew I basically do apartment syndication I took the standard path into real estate and got a chemical engineering degree and you know like everybody does and then did that for seven and a half years discovered flipping how in Southern California flipped one quit my job to go you know full-bore into flipping houses did that for four or five years and then you know said well this isn't gonna last forever we're all these people gonna live they're gonna have to go to apartments because they can't buy a house for seven or ten years now because they have bankruptcies and foreclosures and so my wife and I he was in business partner we said you know apartments are probably gonna start a big cycle that fortunately turned out to be true we bought our first apartment complex in 2011 it was 92 units out in Macon Georgia since then we've done about eighteen hundred units and doing apartments full-time for coming up on seven years now aren't you the one who made like four hundred million phone calls before getting your first deal yes four thousand five hundred and seventy six that is correct I also knocked on about three thousand doors too so yeah that's persistence right there absolutely so speaking of persistence what what does it take man obviously coming from the guy that did that what is your number one tip for new real estate investors getting started what do they need to do to actually become successful in real estate well the good news is most people are gonna be better at it and won't have to be as persistent as I was but that really is the mindset is this expect it to be hard and be relentlessly relentlessly persistent you know most if you go into it thinking it's gonna be easy you're gonna quickly get disillusioned and ends up end up you know binge watching Netflix with a quart of ice cream you know most true real estate success takes time and you're gonna be an overnight success in five to ten years approach with that mindset well well that completely violates everything that the infomercials tell me I'm out of here unfortunately I don't stay up late enough to watch those so I don't get that message you know yeah all right so let's talk about persistence I asked this question to somebody else today on the same kind of interview circuit we're doing but I want to know your answer when do you how do you know when to be persistent and when to move on to something else like with that data is key so for me that answer is ripoff and duplicate which I mentioned before so I find something that somebody else is already doing six Fillie and has already proven so that I know that that system works and then so I'd add that and then just learn that and then go out and be persistent at executing that which is different than hey I got this great new business idea I'm going to create an app you know well okay maybe you shouldn't be persistent at that you have no way of knowing until the market tells you but if you find somebody that has already perfected your real estate investing model and it's really working well all you have to do is copy and be persistent and that's how you know that whether or not that's something you should be persistent at you know that's actually why I like I like the franchise model of like businesses more than just like I got an idea you know like I haven't I'm gonna make an ice cream shop and I'm gonna sell this I like yeah you might be fine but like I love the idea instead of I'm gonna buy it Dairy Queen cuz they're just you're ripping off the exact model somebody else has already proven thousands of times and I'm just gonna do what they've already done and that's why franchises have like a way higher success rate with real estate it's the same thing right I commit pretty much no matter what real estate Avenue you want to go into you can find a hundred people who are doing the exact same thing somewhere in the country right I mean it can be it can be really hard to be that persistent you know like I said it took me six months and a few thousand phone calls so sometimes people said well you know how do you do that right how do you persist that long and you know lots of people talked about all you have your why and all that but in addition to that I would tell people do do three things find an accountability partner right so it can be a friend it can be a cousin it can be the mailman somebody that a week later can say hey did you call the ten brokers you said you were gonna call that's as doesn't need to be any more complicated than that the other thing is just track your activities track how many broker phone calls you made not you know not that there's any true value in knowing that you made though that many phone calls but again it gets back to the accountability and knowing that you made progress because if you you make twenty phone calls and you have no deals to show for you're gonna feel like you accomplished nothing but in reality you worked on twenty relationships you looked at maybe twenty bad deals which means not even me better at looking you know finding good ones and in you know you did still accomplish something so tracking it helps you be accountable to your accountability partner accountable to yourself and let you know that you actually did accomplish something even if you didn't get a deal and then the the final thing is again it is really hard to get a good deal or even make a good deal in this market so focus on the process and not the outcome reality is and no matter how good we think we are we don't have full control over whether or not we get a deal I can't say I'm gonna get a deal in two weeks this is I can't do that but I can say well I'm gonna call 40 brokers in the next two weeks and I'm gonna focus on making certain that I do that and if I do that it's a success will a deal come out of it hopefully but it may not and that actually doesn't matter because I'm focusing on the process I love that there's a quote from Hal Elrod who you and I are all three of us know he says in one of his miracle morning books he said every result you desire is preceded by a process when you define your process and commit to it for an extended period of time the results take care of themselves and I've said that quote so many times I've got to memorize now like see see how of course does it much better and more concisely than I did but yeah exactly yeah like you if you just define that process and then commit to it be persistent like I love that you said that be persistent about the process so let's talk to newbies what are some processes that they and we actually have talked to a couple of people today it kind of similar themes but what are some processes people can work in their business that they should be focusing on well if you're trying to get deals the number one the highest value thing you can be doing is building relationships and that's either way you know if you're in the single family world that's with sellers right reaching out cold calling Direct Mail knocking on doors if you're in the multifamily world might be some of that but it's probably going to be you know calling brokers and and you know lenders and you know managers and your team so that is a process that you know like I said I what I do is I block off time I say I'm gonna call brokers for you know this actually did this morning for two and a half hours Thursday morning I'm calling brokers data is what I'm doing so that is something that you can you make very very tactical very specific and you can hold yourself accountable for so that's the kind of process that I would focus on just something that's you know simple and and doable and attainable you know what you guys have been talking about and some of the themes of these other conversations we've had what what really is sticking to me is we're talking about the journey not the destination and and you know I think a lot of new folks are like well I got to get to the destination already and and what the experienced folks that we're talking to are really saying is you'll get there but I focus on the journey you know open your eyes breathe in the fresh air as you walk down the street look at the trees right that's when you go back and and examine your life that's the stuff that matters it's not hey that I got there right and and so for for real estate investors if you figured out the journey if you figured out the calls and and the tools and the processes you know the destination all right you'll get to that first one but if you know if you kind of skip that and get to the destination you're not really ready for the next destination but if you've kind of figured out all this other stuff you get to the first one the next one's going to soon follow and so is the next one in the next one yeah particularly real estate success seems to take like a hockey stick type curve right a flat flat flat flat and all of a sudden you get to like an inflection point where you just start to ramp up dramatically where you have the systems and the people and the capability to do like really big deals or you can do high-volume of houses I mean think about bigger pockets Joshua I mean you're at a point now or bigger pockets just rules rule real estate and education and you know you can hire a CEO and all this whereas I mean the first three to five years you weren't rolling in cash right so so you know that real estate really is similar you're building a business I mean you might get a flip and make a chunk of big chunk of money right off the bat and that's great that does happen just don't expect to you know retire in six months right there's no that's great there's that quote that I can't member it's probably not even really him but I think I understand or something was like success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm I remember we said that but you know if you don't know who it is just say Abe Lincoln yeah I think Abe Lincoln said it ya know but I always feel like that's kind of I almost feel like that was my like my real estate journey is just like a lot of things that didn't work out the I thought they would you know like I tried to flip palaces and like like the market crash I tried to rental then I got irritate with that but like as long as you just keep going and keep persistent on the things you know are working like collecting cash flowing units like overtime that worked for me and now I look back I'm like oh wow I'm glad I went through all those like it was like failure after failure after failure so I think a lot of success is that yeah failure is not a failure if you learn from it and then build a system to not repeat it I love like that that's good cos um that's tweetable right there I might go - yeah I think that might be the first time I've ever been tweeted I don't know good for you you know there's a point in all of our lives where we get tweeted hopefully do you have any book recommendations for the newbies out there and anything that you think would be really helpful I do and yeah I I really like yeah not surprisingly it's a bigger pockets book but David Green's long distance real estate investing because not only do the prints of a number one it gets over people's biggest hurdle to investing oh I live in California it's too expensive I can't do it you know etc what's okay maybe so but go find a different market in in in David you know in detail goes through how to how to get over that and not only just do it but do it successfully but I also like the book because the principles apply whether you do in single family or 150 units yeah I mean the you know some of the technical stuff is a little bit different but the same principles apply so if you want to go flip houses or buy single-family read that book if you want to do apartments get that book Plus Dave Eiland dolls multi-family millions in emerging markets and those three get you you know a good start fantastic I mean where can people reach out and get in touch with you LinkedIn and bigger pockets of course and then also just our website vantage point acquisitions probably easiest to Google it but it's just V key a CQ calm and there's a contact us form on there and that comes straight to my email inbox perfect yeah thanks so much for coming on and it good talking you guys take care mr. Ryan Murdoch welcome back to the BiggerPockets podcast psyche here thanks for having me back Josh yeah hi how are you not too bad I've never spoken to the man himself so this is an honor to speak with the all-mighty Josh Dorkin and I would like no I did I appreciate everything you've done to take your idea in your platform and monetize it not only for yourself but it's it's remarkable that in doing so the other people IVA fected who have grain gained great success in their financial and personal life so it's it's remarkable and I'd like to congratulate you and thank you thank you thank you keep going keep going Ashley I continue so so today we're talking about newbie tips and and before we get into yours can you remind folks of who you are in about a minute give him a quick background on who you are and what you do sure yeah I'm a primary primarily I'm a buy and hold investor I started about 10 years ago house hacking my first duplex and built my portfolio up to about 20 units I think now I'm up to 50 of my own units plus a partnership on the on a mobile home park during that time I managed anywhere between 200 and 1500 units for obviously my own units plus running a management company managing unit for other people and then I went to work for an even larger management company for a period of four years up until a year ago when I left that just went back to self managing my own portfolio because it was to the point that it could sustain sustaining that's nice today you know you and I so people may not know that Ryan is actually my partner on well no we're not officially partners right we are tenants and common ticks or ticks it's a good thing it's a good thing we do a podcast every soft because it's about the only time we actually speak you and I could do this podcast by white text we would both take I think I've talked to you more in the last three minutes than I've talked to you in the last three minutes can you guys take this offline mr. Murdoch let's look shut up all right Ryan so as an experienced real estate investor obviously you know what it's like and as an experienced manager you also know what it's like for new real estate investors so what what advice would you give to somebody just getting started on what's your best tip my best tip I think would be the same thing that I preached last year when I was on the podcast and that's to make sure that you have adequate reserves for whatever property and whatever the scope of work is for that property you know if you're gonna be one of these guys that goes in and you want to buy something no money down and you need it the cash flow and perform from day one that's fine that's doable but you you better be confident in what you're buying and that goes from not only physical inspection of the property so you've done general building inspection you've sent a camera down the sewer line you've made sure that the thing is physically sound but also the the makeup of the tenants the economic vacancy who's paying who's not paying who are you gonna be able to salvage who is gonna be evicted and what are your turnover costs and everything else ago that's associated with that I've seen so many people especially new investors but even experienced investors get bit by buying something they didn't anticipate what was going to be involved with it and you know they were hit with a bunch of financial surprises so the more risk that you take the more unknowns for a property the the better equipped you better be to deal with it from a reserve standpoint and and ideally that's that's cash in your own bank account second would be access to reasonably priced borrowed money whether it's a line of credit or a personal loan but if you have a major system failure a furnace that goes down a sewer line that backs up you've got to come up with a solution for that immediately because there's no there's no putting that off and if you don't have the ability to do to do that whether it's it's it's a five thousand dollar repair on a duplex or a five hundred thousand dollar repair on a hundred unit complex that can put you out of business instantly yeah and I've seen I've seen too many people get bit so that's what what does a newbie do you know okay so I need to have reserves got it how do I even start to figure out what that number is you know if there's an exact I don't know it but I would take it again back to whatever you did for inspection so if you're gonna buy let's say a duplex you know if you have a failure at a duplex it's a $10,000 if it's a life-and-death situation pretty much anybody could scrape together $10,000 if you can't you're seriously in trouble but if it's a bigger complex a bigger property and you've got to scrape together say $100,000 $200,000 by tomorrow most people can't make that up out of their day job income so you've got you've got a real problem so you know base base your your reserve estimate just on the overall condition of the property and what you what what are your knowns what are your unknowns and the more unknowns you have the more money you're gonna have to set aside and be ready to spend yeah that's really good yeah I know like you know I I mean I wrote the book right on knowing low money down and but I always tell people like that doesn't mean you should invest when you're flat broke it doesn't mean if you can't afford to put food on the table or you know it just means you're using other people's money and so what I tend to advise people is if look if you are flat broke it doesn't mean you can't invest but maybe find a partner that smooth who's got some financial resources and they're your backup you know and like they know that they're your backup you know you know again it's better to have half of a deal and be secure they'll try to do an entire thing by yourself and the pressure and stress that comes when you have to tap into reserves is it's really frustrating and stressful if you're on edge right I mean if you could barely afford to fix you know the the floor or whatever it is you know the broken toilet I mean you know all these things happen if you don't have that cash and also by the way I mean you know if you're working with a manager and your manager isn't even talking that language isn't talking about reserves isn't making sure that you've got them in your setup or says that you don't have to worry about reserves you know just 500 bucks I mean time to find a new one yeah yeah cuz those problems are real and they happen and you have to be able them when they happen yeah so the same thing can be said about you know if you're buying a turnkey property or if you're buying just ideal an agent sense you know so that's a really good idea you know good deal because like expenses are real like if you're not analyzing for I don't know how many turnkey deals I've seen across my you know desk that the oh yeah we're gonna fix the property up you don't even worry about repairs yes you do like this cuz you fixed a property that doesn't mean the tenant doesn't bust a hole in the door cuz I get mad and drunk like that still happens maybe they can so happen Y a vacancy happens yep yeah it doesn't matter how good it is yeah I don't I don't go into any any property now even you know even a single-family home or a duplex so they think it's fine you always seem to spend ten grand just on stuff that you didn't expect I mean yeah well you just always do you walk to the door it's gonna cost ten thousand dollars whether it's an addiction or turnover you know some sort of surprise you know I don't care how diligent you've been you always end up spending money that you didn't think you were gonna have to spend and you've got to account for that idea my 24 unit bought in Ohio like everything was perfectly fine I had no like I didn't have the ten thousand dollar thing upfront right everything was just fine what yeah flood hits and like neighbor moved some trees and it changed the way the water flows and it hit my property and destroyed like two units I'm like yeah there goes my more than ten grand like that kind of stuff happens and yeah because even if you had done perfect due diligence on that you would never know yeah great example well anyway so in essence be prepared be aware be ready have have cat either cash access to credit lines credit cards whatever it is but have money available don't go and broke or at least don't max out everything that you have in order to get into the property and not in a fashion so if credit cards are your backup plan be careful with that too because that's a slope so if you you know if you don't have a property that's cash flow maybe it's cash flowing positive but not great and you put 10 or 15 or 20 grand on credit cards to fix something now you've got you know additional debt at 23 percent Interest which you may not be able to dig out of from the cash flow of that property so if that is your backup plan beware that you don't dig yourself a deeper hole I mean I've been there I've done that it's it's not a good place to be so you know make sure that whatever your borrowed money is in your contingency plan but you have the ability to repay that without making the situation worse awesome and perfect great advice by the way people want to listen to your whole episode you were episode Ryan was episode 34 right yep 234 the BiggerPockets podcast to check it out you got a really good there and kind of here you know your downs and ups it was really really powerful so they're good stuff alright so before we get out of here though jibbety recent book recommendations I didn't even read in consuming and anything that's changed your life part of the book that had the biggest impact on me and I think like a lot of books and a lot of that have an impact on people it's it's tightening as to when you read them and what's going on in your life and where your mind is at any given point I was fortunate enough and I know this has been mentioned before but 4-hour workweek I love that book and I like I said I was fortunate enough to read it when I was close to a lot of the ideas in that book but I really needed to read that book and just shift my mindset a little further I could to kind of push me over the edge in that that book really hit home it was about a year ago right now that I read it and I think it was about a month after I read that book I left my day job and I'm with the Thailand for a month and lived the 4-hour workweek lifestyle and never looked back it was fantastic so you know I'm not certainly not down to it every week is a 4-hour workweek but the principles in that book and sort of the mindset and getting there you know has really stuck with me and even my work week I mean I like what I do now I you know my the property management stuff the consulting I like what I do so even you know I guess yeah a 4-hour workweek I would equate that to just four hours of stuff maybe that you don't like to do and if the rest of the week is is you know it's still working but working on things that you enjoy then then you know you fulfilled that as well so there was a great book you say real estate you say consulting in reality what you mean is real same mercenary your my our scenario yeah allegiance to nobody but the almighty dollar I legitimately hired Ryan to fly out to Ohio to like check out my property and see what we can make it work better and optimize better because I was like I don't want to go to Ohio that's gonna mess me up I flew right over the apartments in a helicopter drop down on a rope swing in through the windows before we kick you out of here man how do people get in touch how do they find you what's my bigger pockets all the time so you can shoot me a message there I'm on Facebook you can check out my website which is lighthouse am comso lighthouse asset-management lighthouse am calm I have an Instagram but I couldn't even tell you what it is I'm still trying to figure it out but I post there but bigger pockets are face board and easiest way to give me perfect awesome all right Mindy Jensen Wow look at this this is cool this is cool I'm excited to talk to you guys it's been a while since I've been you know on a podcast wait you have your own podcast now the bigger yeah I have a fancy new podcast I don't need your podcast anymore oh you're too cool for school now mainly for those people who have no idea who you are who have not yet listened to the BiggerPockets money podcast and by the way if you haven't listened to the bigger pocket money podcast please tune in today listen to Mindy Scott talk about all sorts of cool money topics gets you nice and financially sound tell people about who you are and what your real estate background is so my name is Mindy Jensen I am the community manager for BiggerPockets comm if you're on BiggerPockets I'm your first colleague I am all over the website I am the podcast host for BiggerPockets Money podcast and I have been investing in real estate pretty much since before Brandon was born so like the last 20 years 17 years 17 years your so you're 17 I was gonna say no I've been investing for 20 years don't tell me my story Brandon I know it so my method of investing is called a live in flip that is where I buy an incredibly unattractive house I move into it and I rip it apart while I'm living in it I lived through the drywall dust and the new roof and all of that it's super awesome fun and explain some things yes and in two years I sell it the government tells me thank you for making the world a more beautiful place you can keep all your profits right in your pocket we'll take none because I lived in it as my primary residence so it is the government I love you know what I'm gonna go with for this instance I love the gun for you guys that's awesome IRS who gives me up to $500,000 tax free free yep I love it all right Mindy Jensen thank you thank you thank you all right so with that in mind III think I know where we're going with this but what advice do you have for new real estate investors somebody thinking about doing it for the first time what would you tell them so since I started so long ago I was really young and I knew everything it didn't occur to me to be nervous but I think that some people really get nervous when they think about investing in real estate so if you are nervous start small you don't have to jump in and buy a hundred unit complex use your own residence as your investment you've got the live-in flip which I do there's I know we've already talked about house hacking where you use part of your property to rent out to other people they help you pay your mortgage you're bringing money in that you can then go and invest in real estate in another way so you know if you're really nervous about it look at your own house see what ways you can use your house as an investment what what I love about that especially the live-in flip and I wanted to Zone in on there a little bit swimming talked about that today much is like you can live in a really really nice house like you could potentially live in a really great neighborhood in a really great house I mean granted you have to fix it up so either you do that right away hopefully or you do it you and I probably do which is wait until the day you move out to finish it but like you know like legitimately like I'm moving like this week I'm packing up all my stuff right now and we're finally finishing all this stuff but still like we've lived in everybody because everybody does it but we live in a great house in a great neighborhood and we're we're gonna see like $100,000 in profit that's gonna be tax-free because of the whole two-year exclusion like I love that so do you have any other tips for people like how to do that like what should they look for when they're gonna do do a living living flip like should they plan that ahead of time or did you kind of just stumble into it like okay this one will work out well how does somebody approach that well I stumbled into it because all I could afford was really rundown and unattractive but there are a couple of tips to making a living flip more successful first of all you don't want the nicest house in a crappy neighborhood you want the crappiest house in a nice neighborhood because what people are looking for a $100,000 house they're looking in a $100,000 neighborhood if they're looking for a $200,000 house they're not looking in that same hundred thousand dollar neighborhood so you want a house that you can buy low and bring up to the value that everybody else in the neighborhood has you know my first house here in Colorado we went to this neighborhood and it was decent and we found this house that blew our minds it was like this super eco house and gorgeous and amazing but it was like 50 or $100,000 more than everything else in the neighborhood and we were like all ready to pull the trigger and then we'd like you know rationality hit us and we're like wait a second no we're doing this completely backwards and thank goodness the the we decided not to buy it you can lose all the potential profit just by having the house located in the wrong neighborhood and you know the wrong neighborhood doesn't necessarily mean a bad neighborhood it just means you know it's not the right neighborhood for that particular house exactly if you are going to live in flip look for things that are really important to the stability of the property it doesn't matter that there's no dishwasher or that the last owners took the refrigerator it matters that the foundation is broken or that they smoked meth in the back bathroom or you know whatever you don't want to live in a meth house wait is that a benefit or a detriment to the deal the method about that yeah maybe Brandon had living in a meth house yes why do you always pronounce that differently you Persis you say Monticello money not to say no but if but if people don't know what I'm talking about I say Montesano cuz then they can spell it easier than people like oh I get it they can spell it that's why well generally that's why I'm trying to smell it if they want to Asano and then people like oh hey I know all right so Mindy I want to know how bad is too bad to buy a fixer-upper if you're gonna live in one of the you know live in the house it's a fixer-upper how bad would you recommend is to talking for first-timers you have to be comfortable with every single thing that needs to be done so are you comfortable with having the roof half off probably okay in Colorado if it just happened definitely not okay over in Monta whatever Washington where it rains more frequently so you know look at see no see Montecito when you went from like you know the the Pacific Northwest to the beautiful California coast yeah Montecito yeah well Brandenburg can't be constrained to one location back to me I'm really sorry this is the one time you'll ever be compared to Chuck Norris what does Brandon and Chuck Norris have in common they're both legs okay ranked like a lion okay strength like a lion look at these guys I haven't see me lift things I can lift things you are you are 100% correct the only thing I've ever seen you lift is Rosie you do realize we're down to two listeners now so yeah the two people who can't figure out how to turn off the podcast okay anyway so what makes the property too bad bringing this back in Josh mute Brandon so you know you look at the outside is are any of the elements getting in there there are some houses that are just too bad you know is it stable is it gonna fall down that's not a good property to try to rehab a house that I'm currently in was rific li unattractive when I bought it but it was a very solid house as I walked through it my feet didn't bounce I didn't you know bounce all over the house as I was walking it was very solidly built and there were no appliances well I don't care I can go buy appliances that's not a big deal but there was no mold which is good all the water worked copper theft can be a big problem in foreclosed houses this was a foreclosure so the although copper was still available it was still in place the electrical worked so it was so look for something Hall look for something that's not gonna collapse on you for your first house and and well and if your if it's your first house you know buying something where absolutely everything needs to be fixed can really drain your spirit yeah so get something with ugly carpeting and horrible paint get something with really ugly fixtures but all the pipes work it get you know it's nothing to change out a light fixture turn off the electricity first my DIY tip for the day same with the water but it's you know electricity isn't that hard plumbing isn't that hard and there are tons of books and tons of classes and tons of YouTube videos they'll show you how to do absolutely everything and if you're not wanting to do electricity just go hire an electrician I mean they're not that expensive protip have all of your things ready so if you want an electrician to switch out your electrical you know your electrical fixtures have them all ready for him to go so you only have one call one call charge good - good tip all right before we let you go mini les les question along this live in flip thing you know obviously it could get pretty overwhelming like you said if you've got everything wrong but presumably my assumption would be you you want to knock one thing out right like so start with one room get that one room done go to the next room go to the next room and kind of work that ways is that an effective strategy at least since I haven't done one I would assume that would be the way I would do it that is an effective strategy with an asterisk because there are some things that you want to get done all at the same time you want I want guys or yeah you want the drywall guys to come out and drywall everything in one fell swoop that is a huge mess and you don't want to deal with that more than once but yeah you know you can do everything but the drywall and then move on to the next room and do everything but the drywall so for the most part doing it room by room is great there are some jobs that you want to match together but ya have one space that you don't touch so we did that with our bedroom we had a bedroom we close the door no dust got in we put even we put towels underneath the the crack on the door so that nothing would get in so this was one area where sometimes you come in and you're like I am done I can't do this today I need a break and you go to your bedroom you watch TV it's this space that isn't all ripped up and it makes it worthwhile again it makes my mister called DCFS on you because the kid's room had dust everywhere the kids had their own space at the foot of our bed I love that I love the idea of like yes start small you don't need to start huge don't get overwhelmed just do what you got to do where you got it where you can do it and if that's a living flip that is a great way to get there so before we get out of here Mindy you have a book recommendation anything that you've read lately that's changed your life or improved your life or you just think it's a cool book so the book that I always recommend is the richest man in Babylon because it is a money book about there was written in the 1920s they think it was published in the 1920s and it just shows that money is not different a hundred years ago versus now don't spend everything you make invest with people who know what they're doing and it was written in King James Bible version English which is my favorite like Shakespearean English so it is fun to read well Josh liked that book too yeah love it love it richest man in Babylon is one of my favorite books it's fantastic everybody should read that book if they're gonna get into real estate investing without a doubt so great recommendation cool well Mindy thank you so much for coming on the show we appreciate it and we will we will talk to you soon it's always fun to talk to you guys thanks a lot bye alright that was our show no that's the guys that was that was show 301 on the BiggerPockets podcast I am your host the only host per the original host substitute Joshua death of the two teacher today the greatest I'm like Ali I'm the allottee of hosting you're the teacher of hosting but that's the did your flash backing me man that was a former career whoa anyway for those people who are still here there's like six people and one of them's my mom hi mom I hope you guys enjoyed yeah what's up mom there's way more than six people and we do hope you enjoy the show because it was awesome those interviews were fantastic yeah yeah really really good advice today I'm getting started I hope if you're just getting started I hope you walk away from this motivated and educated to go out and crush it cuz now is the time to start taking advantage of all this cool resources all this good knowledge and building your own financial plan for freedom so yes yes and leave us some feedback guys jump on the jump on the jump on the blog BiggerPockets Icom slash show 301 and leave us feedback on what you thought about the show any questions you've got for our guests and hopefully they can jump in otherwise of course do remember to leave us ratings and reviews on places like iTunes and SoundCloud and stitcher I don't know if SoundCloud still around I don't think they're I think yeah stitcher iTunes you name it wherever you're listening to this thing and you know we launched the book today if you buy the book if you buy the books you know make when it's not an Amazon today but it will be at some point in the future when it is with you guys leave us a review there and let us know that you like the book if you like the book it helps us and if you buy it from any of the other retailers yeah Barnes enables you leave us rings reviews they do help us tremendously bigger pockets calm / how to invest bigger pockets calm / how to invest bigger pockets calm / best get it today make me a best-selling author I've got yeah I mean this is about me at this point Brandon he sold a half I've me yeah you need to be now he just piggy backs there you go hey guys thank you so much really appreciate it it's been fun coming back and thank you for having me on your show Brandon Thank You Josh for being a substitute host this has been great today until next time I'm your host Joshua Dorkin signing off you're listening to BiggerPockets radio simplifying real estate for investors large and small if you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype you're in the right place be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets calm your home for real estate investing online

Channel: BiggerPockets

Views: 229,633

Rating: 4.7637343 out of 5

Keywords: biggerpockets, real estate, real estate investing, investing, rentals, rental property, investing in real estate, income property, bigger pockets, passive income

Id: XNrMOGuJ-wE

Length: 144min 58sec (8698 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 18 2018