How to identify the cracks in your relationship: Esther Perel | mbg Podcast

astaire welcome pleasure to be here it's such an honor to have you and before we dive into all things relationships let's zoom out and talk about the huge shift we're experiencing the great adaptation as you call it there's so much happening in the world right now there's unprecedented uncertainty so my question to you how do you stay grounded during such an unsettling time it's so interesting you start with this question because when i was trying to come up with the topic for my annual virtual training conference sessions live i thought what is the essence at this moment for clinicians coaches all people working in the field of relationships and well-being which mind body green so supports and we instantly said it is the great adaptation how do we stay grounded when the ground itself is moving what do you do when you have a period of 18 months plus of prolonged uncertainty grief loss overlapping crises an image came up for me that a colleague lisa fortuna described when she worked after maria in puerto rico where the kids described that there were two kinds of trees the trees that fell and the trees that bent and the trees that bend where the trees that were left standing because they could be flexible because they could they adapted to the winds to the to the elements and this is what is happening at this moment for us is that we need to step out of the normativity of in hyper focus on individualism understand that this is a period of mass mutual reliance we need to find ways to resource ourselves when we want to be able to continue to support our clients whichever type of care and service we deliver why we're not all therapists whoa for for us you know regular human beings if you will what what are some of the benefits of staying grounded during this time it's the same idea because the clients go the interesting thing is that this is a time when any type of people who are working in the field of wellness and therapy are actually experiencing a parallel process to the people that they're working with we're all going through the same thing so i when i think about what can the regular people be when i'm a regular person not me when i'm a therapist what do i need i need to really understand that the concept of self-reliance in this moment is insufficient that what will help us is a concept of collective resilience which means that i reach out to others it's mass mutual reliance it's an interdependence the the the pandemic is interdependent the pandemic doesn't discriminate between one continent and another and the same thing is true in terms of how we need to learn to think my actions have consequences in places that i can't imagine your actions affect me and therefore my caring for you or thinking about you has an immediate effect that interconnectedness is essential to connective resilience number one number two is to stay in touch with the erotic meaning the sources that give us a sense of aliveness of vibrancy of vitality art music nature community are the main ones so that we don't just try to survive but we can continue to thrive and those four are probably in my mind the most important ones to maintain that touch with the energy the life force not just i can cope i can do my tasks i can go follow my to-do list but really how do i still find poetry and meaning so when you mention the life force i think of connection and i think a means for connection is communication and it seems like we're pretty bad at communication why is that difficult specifically communication with those who seem to be closest to us i feel like that's a pattern that's kind of a course in couples therapy you've just asked [Laughter] i mean primarily there's a lot of reasons why we don't communicate well so a few one is that we are often more invested in what we need to say than in what we need to listen and hear and we often talk without paying attention enough to how the other person or people are registering what we are saying it doesn't matter how you know what i mean and how i say it if it doesn't land and if my intention doesn't come across so stop check and don't just repeat the same thing for the fifth time obviously if you're repeating it it's because it's not going through so if it's not getting true what is blocking it what's happening in the middle what is the other person feeling sensing receiving from you that is all beyond words that is all the other forms of language and vocabulary that are part that are not just in the spoken verb and then the other thing is expectations if i by in advance feel that you fundamentally don't really value what i have to say well that is going to taint all my communication if i don't really value your responses that's going to temper old so my expectations the emotional undercurrent of expectations that we bring to the relationship is going to block communication and lastly com i would say is a confirmation bias we tend to hear that which reinforces our pre-existing beliefs are we our existing assumptions rather than pay attention to to change we want our brain is organized in pattern recognition and it will go for what it knows first so often people will repeat the same thing they're in a feedback loop i say something that triggers you and makes you say something which then sets me up to say the thing that i didn't even mean to say but here i am again and we just like co-create each other each one with our respective feedback loops and it's a very important thing in communication forum change try to actually not look for what you already are used to seeing or hearing see if you can hear something else and then communication opens up i i think we're going deep into we're already started going to relationships so we'll go there so where would you go otherwise i know so conflict everyone has conflict conflict is healthy what is your number one tip for dealing with conflict in relationships the number one tip for dealing with conflict is that it is not the subject matter the issue that is at the core it is not the content it is the form the form precedes the content underlying conflict there are usually three primary hidden agendas primary issues that are triggered one has to do with power and control who has the priorities who has more power whose decisions matter more two is care and closeness this is the work of howard markman um care and closeness do you have my back can i trust you and three is respect and recognition do you value me my integrity and when people argue it may look like they're arguing about money the children the in-laws whose job is more important but underneath what they're talking about is one of these three things so i'm curious in your practice it's you know recording this the end of september in 2021 and it'll air end of october world is changing as we we open the world is changing rapidly and i'm curious how it's changed specifically in your office what are you seeing in couples today what's the most common issue or conflict you're seeing couples you work with right we're seeing look most people would admit that a disaster a global crisis acts as a relationship accelerator because this is a time when we say uncertainty it's not just uncertainty if we go back to work there is a sense of existential anguish where is all of this going this whole thing seems to be unraveling it from climate despair to the economic uncertainty to the racial reckoning i mean there's a lot of big things going on it's not the first time in history that a lot of big things are going on but in general what it does is it puts you closer to the precarity and the fragility of life things could change overnight things are not nearly as stable as i thought i had i'm not just in control of everything and that notion that we are in touch with mortality in in a symbolic and in a real way says life is short and when life is short people say what am i waiting for let's get married let's have kids let's move in let's move countries let's leave jobs or they say i have waited long enough i'm not ready for this anymore so there's a sharpening of the priorities what i really am looking for and what i no longer will tolerate or what i don't want to live without or with anymore and that clarity it's a phenomenal thing because in the midst of that uncertainty there is also a unique sense of clarity fascinating it fascinating because we talked so much coming out of kova that trends were accelerated but it makes sense the trends in your own relationship would be accelerated or well whether it's the acceleration of a crack in your relationship fascinating the way i've often said it is at a time like this most couples in my office will begin to see all the cracks in their relationships with more clarity they've just been together more than they've ever been for for months on end but they also will and that is the important part is you also need to see the light that shines through the cracks and so you get a sense of what is the strength of this relationship what is its resilience where what are the resources that you draw from it and how do they live together with the fragility with the honoree with the longings with the unmet needs etc this is the i mean couples are in a couples and families as well as organizations i think it's everywhere people are revisiting the importance of their relationship what they mean how much they sustain them who is there who has disappeared who became part of my pod who is no longer important to me i mean this review is really really important and i i it's something that we talk about in my training groups all the time at this moment is it's the partisanship inside families it's the big divides that are occurring inside relationships so the world the large issues of the world the public health issues the political tensions are all living side by side with intimacy and sexuality and house renovations that's the part of the great adaptation too you know what i think of priorities in a couple something that comes to mind is this idea of personal growth growing as individuals then growing collectively so how do you think about growth when it seems to be a little bit uneven in the couple for example one one person that really focuses on growth and the the other doesn't and when is that okay within the relationship and when does the rubber hit the road so to speak it's interesting mating in captivity my first book could be seen as a book about sexuality or desire in long-term relationships but what it also really explores is the dynamic tension between two fundamental sets of human needs the need for security and stability and safety and predictability and the need for adventure and novelty and change and discovery that's other words for what you called the one who is more dear toward growth and the one who is more geared towards anchoring and maintaining stability interestingly in a thriving relationship it is actually very good to have both because the fact is that in life you need both and when you see in the beginning of a relationship that divide that you just highlighted one person continuing to grow and evolve and change and be curious and the other one wanting things to just remain as they are and hunker down this was part of the attraction originally the person who was solid was probably quite drawn to the adventurer to the curious mind to the explorer to the discoverer but now they got more than what they bargained for and the person who was the liquid and who was the waves was actually quite attracted to the anchor because they so that's a person that you can trust you can rely upon them they are grounded they're responsible they show up when they say they would and now they got a little bit more than what they bargained for and so it becomes no longer complementarity but it becomes more fractured and polarity polarization when each one is no longer able to rely on the part on what the other one is doing and wanting some of it in their life but they are fighting against it they're blocking against it you never want to do anything you never want to go anywhere you just want to you just want to stay home the whole time you don't want to meet new people you don't want to read new books you're not listening to anything and the other one says you can never sit still you only want to roam around the whole time why don't you just meditate for a change ground yourself and you can see the same conversation that once around the same polarity that once was very attractive and dynamic has now become a source of conflict and tension and grief so you're hitting on our need for adventure and i'm curious how do we keep the spark alive in a long-term relationship i've been married for 12 years or i i i admire people who stay long stay married for 20 30 40 yeah we want to be one of those people we think we're on a path but i'm curious how do you keep the spark alive in a long-term relationship but let me ask you jason what would you say is one thing that you discovered in light of that question that may have been completely different from what you thought i i think it's a good question nothing comes to mind i think i think i think we've been incredibly lucky uh oh well okay i'll give you an answer actually because my wife and i work together we're co-founders and co-ceos i think something that we've had to work hard at and it took a while but we got there was and then we also were parents of two young children is one the ability to shut off work which is still a challenge and then two the ability to it's like there's colleen and jason as individuals and there's colleen and jason as who work together then as colleen and jason as parents and not lose sight of colleen and jason the couple and i think that conscious decision is for that cut decision but that being aware of that not losing sight of us as the couple right was it was a big thing for us huge and you're not just aware you're probably doing things just the two of you yes you're doing new things together just the two of you because taking risks engaging with new activities crossing thresholds pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone is essential to spark so doing things that are familiar that are cozy and comfortable and feel good is very nice that really solidifies the friendship this is the work of researcher eli finkel i think he really has a good point there but what you want the spark in addition to the comfort then it's about pushing yourselves outside of the comfort zone it's about crossing the threshold it's new doing new exciting risky not risky because they're dangerous risky because they just take you outside of the familiar patterns and that's where the edge and the spark lies curiosity i use the word curiosity for that that is essential that is what i describe as the erotic it's imagination curiosity novelty playfulness it's that whole other dimension of life that is not about management inc that is your parental role that is filled with responsibility it's like everything that family life needs is what eroticism is defending against family life wants consistency and routine and predictability and that's great for the kids and for the but the couple actually needs very different things and when you can straddle those two things it's not just the name the couple versus the name the parents it's that what makes for good parents is not the same as what maintains the spark in the couple and what specifically it is for each couple i really think it's wrong to say what keeps the spark is this i can give you the principle this what we just talked about and now for each couple this looks different for one couple it's about going to to a boat trip together for another it's about climbing a peak for another one it's about reading books and discussing them in depth together for another one it's laying down and listening to music and doing absolutely nothing but just being rather than doing for it's but it has to do with exploration like children we grow through by exploration by entering the world every time a little bit more our inner world and the world around us so over the course of your career you've worked with so many couples you work with couples who've experienced infidelity you've worked with couples who experience lots of things i'm curious over the course of your work is there a non-negotiable where you just shake your head and say this just isn't gonna work this couple can't overcome this is there that does that exist or do you feel all couples have a shot no all couples have a shot until they don't [Laughter] you know until they don't and then they you know no i think that there are but the non-negotiables i i i i was talking to a couple in the last few days and each one of them sees the other one from such a place of distrust each one thinks the other one is coming to get them each one thinks the other one is going is dangerous each one plays the part that the other one is threatening they're involving the courts they're involving that's a no return i agree very much with the work of john and julie gottman that contempt is the big divide i mean when you basically just no longer have the slightest care concern for the person that is next to you i think distrust and it may be rooted in trauma it may be rooted in all kinds of personal wounds that the people carry but the fact is that relationally they are on the lookout and they just cannot imagine that this person may not want to hurt them fundamentally that's a place of no return there is a movement either people are too close sometimes that's a problem there are too enmeshed their level of reactivity is in incessant not nobody can say something to which the other person doesn't have a reaction or there are people who are too far apart the gap the indifference this one may be crying this one is totally sitting there frozen next to it without even noticing it where this one spends two hours in bed at night weeping and this one is just sleeping fine or not fine but sleeping and it's it's a degree the degree to which this has become so far that even if you bring them a tiny bit like this but you have couples who when they are a tiny bit like this think it's fine what i think you can live with or tolerate or accept has nothing to do with what you may tolerate and accept so what are the the ultimatums have to do with danger forms of abuse coercive stress tactics relationships in which people lose their dignity but even those people sometimes will continue to stay together i see people in my office who tell me my parents just were at the battle my parents hated each other's guts their whole life but they couldn't leave i wished every day they would part so it's very important that we not develop a norm of what we think is the the relationship that is perfect or the if there is that which doesn't exist or the relationship that is beyond repair because sometimes i think things are repairable that people don't want to live with and sometimes i think things are beyond repair and people will not leave they'll accept to live like that because a host of reasons but fundamentally because it's better than not in some sometimes not healthy way but that's that's the challenge of when you work with relationship is to know that i may say this is this is art this is hurtful this is mean this is cruel but some people are so accustomed to it fundamentally that unless there is a real desire to do trauma work in this instance there's not much that's going to change but that doesn't mean they're going to need and so when you say we are together 12 years and i can say i'm together 35 years longevity is not a marker of success so then what is the quality of the relationship is what determines the quality of your life the quality of all our relationships is what determines the quality of our lives so and what makes for quality is not one set of things it's diverse but they all need in my mind to share a sense of dignity when people have lost decency in a relationship when the other person is treated basically as an extension of my own content then you're in a you know a zone where i just say to people you ask me this is not livable but what do you want to do right did that give you an answer yeah absolutely i i i agree with everything you said i would say it's quality and quantity i think ideally if you want both but i hear you quantity quantity is not the solo metric for success you know dan savage said you don't measure the success of a relationship because people have you know show up at the funeral parlor at the same time and i thought it's very clear we have so taken the number of years as a sign last but here it is lasting relationships stable marriages or relationships is one criteria maybe we could say that some relationships don't mean to be lasting but they mean to be generative they mean to be creative they need to accompany people to leave shitty childhoods and build something together and then at another stage move on to other people so my favorite line is that most people in the west today are going to have two or three relationships in their lifetime adults committed intimate relationships and some of us are going to do it with the same person so my question to you when you say we are 12 years together it's typically after that is to say and how many marriages have you had it's an interesting way to think about it i like it you understand yes so when you mention stability i think of monogamy what is your take on is our non-monogamous relationships can can they be stable what is your take on non-monogamous relationships in 2021 non-monogamous relationships can absolutely be stable non-monogamous relationships define stability very different sometimes than exclusive relationships and non-monogamous relationship is not one model it's a proliferation of different ways that people explore non-monogamy so it can be sexual non-monogamy non-exclusivity but it can be polyamory and it can be polyamory that has a primary relationship with more peripheral ones around and it can be a polyamory that is more of a communal model all together so there is not mono versus non-malo i think that distinction itself has to really be challenged and for that matter what are often proclaimed monogamous relationship are often clandestine adulterous relationships so people negotiate monogamy all the time but sometimes they just negotiate it with themselves i i think that there is your question is seductive and fraught so i'm curious what what have you seen when does it work when does it not work i'm curious i know it's hard to generalize so i will give you one criteria that i do think is important for people who want to live in a more plural model of love or model of sexuality there needs to be internally and in a sense of a secure attachment there needs to be a sense that if you go to someone else it doesn't mean you don't want to be with me and therefore i get anxious and therefore i get frantic and therefore i either shut down and avoid or i pursue you know it demands a degree of maturity and what we go back to another definition of the word groundedness or what other people call a secure attachment i think that is really important for people and the other thing is to understand that choice is a choice of values and lifestyle it is not a choice that is a solution to lack of desire to lack of intimacy it's not a com it's not a compensation it's an addition it's a compliment but it's not a compensation when it's done to solve another problem now that depends even there i would say i've seen it solve beautiful problems when people have partners who are ill or who are no longer able to be erotic partners with each other that then there isn't it is a an answer or solution to another thing but i'm talking about you know opening up because something fundamentally is missing here and even that when i say it's not always the case it depends i've seen in a lot of queer couples where that actually is the case because the relationship is not predicated on trying to be an erotic and an intimate and a core living and a parenting together it segments so it is a very exciting proposition of people to revisit what are the many different ways that people can actually engage in relationships and intimate relationships with partners you know the one relationship that has actually changed the least is the intimate with the romantic couple it has really tried to remain since the end of the 19th century quite locked into a certain ideology and so the fact that is opening up the same way that we opened up single-parent families and surrogate families and queer families and accordion families and long-distance couples this is part of the same exploration of who is how many people make a couple or a family or a relational system and if you look at it like that rather than just mono and non-mono it really becomes a very different conversation so it sounds like in order for it to work there needs to be alignment absolutely yes if you have one person imposing it on the other but of course one person may say the other one is imposing monogamy on me exclusivity on me and then you enter into power dynamics that has nothing to do anymore with mono and poly during power dynamics who has a say whose priorities matter most will go back to the power and control that underlies the conflict i was talking before you need two people also who are more on the axis of differentiation and freedom and exploration that is an alignment too if you have the one person that wants to stay in stability mode and the other one who likes to be in change mode and that involves changes of partners too and this person experiences it as i'm not enough this is a rejection why can't i satisfy all your needs you satisfy all my needs i never think about other people why do you have to think about other people then you're in a very this is a different conversation and one person will feel continuously threatened and one person will feel continuously constricted does that make sense it does it does absolutely so what's your take when you hear what we often hear a couple been married for years and you hear they're splitting up and the reason is well we grew apart is it i know that's a big question that simple what's what's your take when you hear that again i know it's hard to generalize but you know we grew apart we're still friends we just grew apart so interestingly a lot of these sentences have taken on a different meaning right now because people have lived together i did an entire podcast series where should we begin just with couples under lockdown and i met a couple in lagos and a couple in sicily and germany just to see what effect did this have on a couple we are generally spatial people we live in speciality we get dressed differently for different activities we leave the house we come back we've spoken to other people we've been infused with energy by our interactions with others and here i tend to say you cannot ask one person to give you what an entire village should provide and this is what just happened for many of us at least in the first months this is what just happened so and you asked about adaptability in the beginning in in the sessions live conference this year having uh alexandra solomon address this very question like how did all of this create a shift for those who are evaluating the quality of their closeness for those who are evaluating how close they actually want to become i.e new couples and for those who have lived together in a complete state of depletion with very little input energizing erotic and life playful joyful input with all the role collapsed in the same room now you may have a bigger place but for some people they have been literally in the same studio with the little kid doing their jobs taking care of their parents being a chef being a trainer being a parent being a partner being a friend and all of that while sitting in a state of collapse with a body that is kind of completely recoiling on itself this i just want to give the image of the because i see these patients i'm in my bedroom they're in their bedroom and we are what does that do to us who wants to afterwards when i've worked here the whole day listening to these stories what do i want to do in this bedroom afterwards what do i have left to say this is the growing apart that i i think is really important you know then you say to people what do you do when you experience that kind of atrophy could be social atrophy in general that we've experienced or relational atrophy what does it mean it means that when you say something your partner barely listens to what you're telling that they're half the time with their focus on their phone or attention divided they're not really listening the last time they looked at you in the eyes is quite a while ago that you have you get enthusiastic about things and they just say that's interesting and that's where it stops and that you start to feel that you don't matter i fundamentally think that when people say we've grown apart we don't share much anymore we don't have the same interest we don't get excited by the same stuff we don't get animated by the same thing i'm interested in this it's not the fact that i'm interested in this and you're not it's that when i try to engage you in the thing that i'm interested in you're not interested in me and then when you're not interested in me day after day after day you start to feel like if i'm here or not here what difference does it make do i matter do i exist for you do you think of me do you you know you have two little kids they have done object constancy right they have internalized you so that when you're not there you live inside of them that allows them to leave and come back and feel secure in the world because they have you there but the same thing is with adults when you start to have the sense that the other person barely notices when you enter the house and when you leave the house it's deadness right it's deadness and it's that sense of deadness that people have reacted to very much these days because it starts to feel like i don't want to live like this i have one last question on relationships before we segue to friendship what's the one thing that all couples regardless of age stage relationship what's the one thing that all couples would benefit from doing more dancing well that was quick dancing dancing what is it about dancing dancing is attunement dancing there is non-verbal attunement to the rhythm of another the body of another the motion of another dancing is music dancing is the one thing that you cannot do and be depressed at the same time [Laughter] i love it i love it dancing is i mean i can't tell you how much i invite people whatever the form of dancing but dancing together has no age there's no age music moves through you and it brings joy and you partner with someone and i mean i've spent hours watching elderly couples dance together and it is grace it is elegant it is erotic it is alive it is anti-death it really and seriously you can paint and cry you can write and cry you can listen to music and weep but you can't dance and we because the body that is this way depressed cannot dance you cannot move when you are like this so by definition it energizes you it enlivens you it it that's my one i i love it i love it so i will segue to friendship which is the subject of your new season of where should we and how do we how do we think about friendship and and how why it's so critical to our overall well-being and i'm very very interested in friendships it's they are the essential in my life mainly also because i had no family i had very small families so having people who became friends that became a proxy family or family by choice and the friendship is one of the most free choice relationships we have you cannot force somebody to be a friend you don't choose your parents or your caregivers or your foster parents or your siblings or your bosses but you do choose choose your friends and it is a relationship that if it doesn't renew itself and go still it generally will die a natural death so it demands activation friends accept you love you and tell you sometimes the truth friends allow you to go through the stages of life all of them and the birth the deaths the grief they are your community and within a community sometimes some people will become your friends it's not that all communities are friends you may be in a church community in a friend's remember you when you're gone i just went to a memorial last week where there were a hundred friends of a woman that went way too early and how she touched everybody what she was the source of light and she was a convener she wasn't all you know everyone is shaped by the friendships that they have had it's a it's like clay they mold you they continue all along you know where should we begin the card game in my mind i thought couples can play but i very much thought of it as a game that where that friends will play that will give you the permission to tell stories that you don't usually tell the game basically gives you permission it's a container it's a but i've watched it with friends i it is uh friends straddle that thing that you described between growing and stable the one who wants to continue i think that dynamic in friendships is is incredible you watch who are the people who continue with you who are the ones that belong to the period in your life but the attack period is over so you don't go back there i'm doing actually an episode this friday for where should we begin i'm friends oh my first with two friends rather than with a romantic couple and it's two friends who fell apart and they're trying to reconnect their friendship to renew their friendship that's fascinating i think that happens all you know uh my view for what it's worth i am far from being a professional is i love what you said about sometimes friend friendships naturally die and go through stages i found that all the time sometimes friends are there and we're in a stage and then they're not there and sometimes they reappear and sometimes if i i find that it's more common with men than women i think that what happens with men is actually is a slightly different the research says there's a very nice study in holland that basically people change their friends every seven years what happens to men and especially men in relationships is that they let go of their friendships to often and i would say straight relationships in particular they basically defer to the social minister and and let go of their friendships they don't i was talking about that with a friend last night and she said she called me and i was so happy that she called me and we went out the two of us and had like a long night of and i said does he also mean is he out tonight too and she said yes but he doesn't he calls people etc but many of the people he calls do not call him and i may have 10 different invitations of social things to do with my girlfriends and he may have one or two and i think it is one of the sad truths of men because it speaks to the isolation that many men feel and especially when they get older they have lost you know i can't tell you how much of my therapy with men involves reconnecting with lost friends sure i mean i make them fly i make them write i make them cool i make them send pictures i i because when a man reconnects with his friends it's like anybody else when a person you reconnect with parts of you so in closing how can we all become better friends i'm going to give you just an anecdote of the moment because that's what comes to my mind as you ask the question so i have a 28 year old who has begun to organize a birthday for himself this is the third year and he invites his friends and it's an amazing thing to watch which who changes who gets added every year and the the number of guests matches his age and one of the things that we discussed was how do you welcome all these people because many of them don't know each other and this is a thing that i discovered in america is that sometimes people tell you these are my two best friends and the two best friends i've never met and that is inconceivable in many other parts of the world that your two best friends wouldn't know each other but it's because people move and they have different okay so what we discussed is how when he would gather everybody at one point and he would say to every person i invited you and i wanted you here because this is what you mean to me one sentence and then he was gonna say to everybody if you want to get to know jason better talk to him about the birth of his first child and talk to him about how at one point when mind body green struggled she did something that was really transforming and for every person he is going to say if you want to get to know x better ask them or talk to them about and you're going to get if two small things that he knows about that so that other people can connect and i thought this is friendship building i love it your son is very wise beyond the ears he didn't come up with the idea no the idea i credited the source the credit just the source is kriya parker the art of gathering but but he will transform it but what it's deliberate it's very important for how do you become better friends by telling the friends how much they matter to you and how happy you are to have them in your life and for them to so at a birthday often what you get is the people tell you as make a speech to the birthday person and say why that birthday person what they wish for them etc and i was at the birthday recently where i did the same thing in reverse too instead of talking about the birthday person and something about that i made each person talk about what that birthday person meant to them and that evening i'm telling you everybody left with a very different experience and uh my last question you mentioned we reconnect we can have three last one this this really is the last one what what advice do you have for people looking to reconnect with friends you call if you are still of a generation that picks up a phone but i'm telling you the voice is so important don't just text always and don't just dm but if you have it in you call and just say all right it's okay i was sitting at my window i was walking in the park i was talking on this podcast and i remembered you i thought of you i just this morning i wrote to somebody says i was sitting there and i suddenly you came to my mind and i it's been two years and god we've been so all disconnected how have you been i i we all kind of got into these little you know a few people with whom we went through this phase what's happened to you and i would love to to see some news and so what i've begun to do is do voice memos i i speak into whatsapp i speak to text i speak so that and because i can say a lot more and it's really that i thought of you it's been so long whatever happened to us i don't know where you're at but i would love it if you want to get a drink or i would love to catch up or just to know that you are okay and by the answer you will know if this is shared or if it's kind of you're an afterthought in my life at this point you better not pursue this but it's incredible my same 28 year old had a guy here yesterday who i know from from the day he's born the son of my dear friend and i said to him how did he reappear in your life you hadn't seen him in 10 years and he said we just bumped in each other on the street and we just remembered that we know each other from birth but it's active it's an active engagement it's not like what you said earlier when you said something about we have been lucky when you talked about you and your wife people are not just lucky or lazy relationships are like plants you water them some of them can survive on very little and you meet them again and it's like we stopped the conversation yesterday it's as if no three years went by and some of them demand a tiny bit of really warming up to each other but they do demand attention otherwise they kind of left languishing well said we'll close there astaire thank you so much such an honor to have you it's a pleasure thank you bye-bye

Channel: the mindbodygreen podcast

Views: 48,241

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Id: KwaHeNlZ5N0

Length: 46min 39sec (2799 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 29 2021