How to eat in 2024: 7 essential strategies | Prof Tim Spector and Dr Sarah Berry

Sarah and Tim thank you for joining me on New Year's Day you got me out of my bed after a late night last night my voice was a bit more Gravely than usual what would the advice you would be giving to somebody who's waking up today and saying in 2024 I want to make changes to ensure that I feel better longterm whoever's listening at whatever age whatever state of your health or your diet to really listen up and make those good choices cuz it's going to make a huge huge impact on the rest of your life two of the world's leading scientists are here to give you straightforward actionable advice to change your diet and what to eat in 2024 a lot of people listen to this may be saying well actually I think I'm eating healthily are most people in the west eating well no while people have been thinking they're eating healthfully heart attacks cancers diabetes have been slowly increasing and look our seven top tips are going to make you feel great and live a longer healthier life in my opinion welcome to Zoe science and nutrition where World leading scientists explain how their research can improve your health I'm your host Jonathan wolf co-founder and CEO of Zoe as we welcome the New Year I've got a really special episode for you two of the world's leading scientists are here to give you straightforward actionable advice on how to change your diet and what to eat in 2024 for Dr Sarah Barry and Professor Tim Spectre are back on the show they'll share their incredible knowledge about nutrition and healthy eating with you Sarah is a world leader in large scale human nutritional studies associate professor in nutrition at Kings College London and chief scientist at Zoe and Tim is one of the world's top 100 most cited scientists a professor of epidemiology and my scientific co-founder at Z Sarah and Tim thank you for joining me today on what is New Year's Day for everybody who is listening pleasure you got me out of my bed after a late night last night just to be here but I'm very excited regardless I didn't have all the tequila Slammers that Tim had so I'm doing a bit better than him today my voice is a bit more grovely than you do all right well uh we are doing a special episode today which I'm really looking forward to um really tied into I think like the heart of our mission at Zoe and our mission at Zoe is to improve the health of millions by helping them to change how and what they eat and so I wanted to have this opportunity today to have both of you as incredible scientists who dedicated your careers to understanding how the foods that we eat could make us sick or in support our health really talk to us about like what is the latest science and uh what would the advice you would be giving to somebody who's waking up today and saying you know in 2024 I want to make changes that are going to ensure that I feel better and in the long term that I'm healthier based on actually like the real science not something they just discovered that popped up on their social media and told them that the uh the answer was um you know to just eat cucumbers and so I know that you've pulled together seven essential strategies and we're going to cover each of those but before we run uh into those can I just like start at the beginning like Tim why does what we eat actually matter well it's probably the most important personal choice we can make for our health and also the planet as a as a side effect and the data clearly show that if you got everyone uh to improve their diet to the top 10% you would get rid of 60 or 70% of all common diseases it doesn't matter when you start it um new data showing that if at age 40 even if you've had a really bad diet if you shift yourself to the an Optimum diet of the top 10% of people you're going to gain an extra 10 years of life an extra 10 years of life exactly so this is why it's worth it for everybody whoever's listening at whatever age whatever state of your your health or your diet to really listen up and make those good choices because it's going to make a huge impact on the rest of your life and Jonathan not only will it reduce your risk of diet related disease you also feel better and we know this from our own research that if you follow a healthier diet you have more energy you have better mood you feel less hungry and I think that's really important that we don't forget that it also enables us to feel great and it's not a super strict diet we're talking about these people that punish themselves and so you know that extra years you know you you you counting every minute of it because you can't wait until you can get to something good to eat never allowed a piece of cake for the rest of your life exactly and look our seven top tips are going to make you feel great and live a longer healthier life in my opinion now a lot of people listen to this may be saying well actually I think I'm I already am eating healthily are most people in the West in fact already eating well no while people have been thinking they're eating healthily you know heart attacks cancers uh diabetes all the mental health problems been slowly increasing so for the last 20 years we've been deluding ourselves that what we thought was a healthy diet actually isn't and I think that's the tragedy it's not like people weren't trying to some extent um they wanted to do the right thing but they were given the wrong advice they were in the wrong environment and they ended up making the wrong choices I do think that there are a proportion of people that are eating good diets particularly those that have listened to our podcast over the last few years um but I think that the real challenge is in the current food landscape that we have in the UK in the US and many other countries it's actually really hard to eat healthily as well I would totally agree with that one of the things I've been struck you know on the my own personal J Journey with with Zoe off over the last sort of seven years is I thought I was eating healthily at the beginning and now I've changed almost everything that that I eat but also that I have this experience you know as soon as I'm eating out um as soon as I'm looking to um you know to buy something how how hard it often is to eat something that is healthy and how much thought I have to put into it and in the past I would have thought it was trivial what are the problems that come from this food so you talked about living longer but but but what is uh what is the negative what's been happening to People's Health as a consequence of this this food you've been talking about most of the common chronic diseases are in some way impacted by our bad diets and uh are so listening and they maybe their diet isn't so good what are the risk factor they are exposing themselves to really there's very few conditions that Sarah and I think of that we know definitively are not related to a poor diet so I think there's a chance for everybody listening who even they've got some obscure illness uh that no one's ever heard of that CH improving your diet is going to have some impact on that and I think that's that's a really new way of thinking certainly compared to you know 20 years ago when when I was looking at this when we thought it only had a trivial effect I think we've totally underestimated the impact of diet because we didn't really know what the good advice was so you know if it was just eating more mly and orange juice then obviously it didn't work and Jonathan I think on a positive note we also know that introducing a good diet as well as um giving us longer life years can actually reverse some of these chronic diseases and there's fantastic research coming out now in a real life setting of people with type 2 diabetes going on a healthy diet losing losing weight and to going into total remission and so even for people that are already along that path it's not too late so listen to our top seven tips hi I hope you're enjoying the show so far and learning a lot about what science really says about eating healthily in 2024 if you're not already a regular listener I hope you feel like you might come back make sure to hit the Subscribe button so you know whenever a new episode arrives we release each week ad free as part of our mission to improve the health of millions okay back to the show so I think we've now explained why this is important let's go and uh start with uh the first strategy and the first one I think is food is more than fuel don't count calories or macronutrients so Tim many people listening have been told that eating healthily is fundamentally about counting calories and making sure that they don't eat too many calories a day why is that wrong that's rubbish advice because well at one level you can describe food in terms of calories by burning it and seeing how much energy it gives off that's not a useful guide to what to eat because it totally ignores quality of that food and we also know that following calorie reduction doesn't work for the vast majority of people that's why calorie restricted diets although they all lead to some short-term weight loss virtually always lead to a long-term uh failure of that plan and an overshooting A lot of people are going to be completely shocked to hear this because they've been brought up you know in my case almost 50 years of advice saying like the fundamental thing you need to do is Count Your calories and if you are overweight it's like your fault and you just need to like reduce the number of calories you do each each day so are you sure absolutely there are multiple studies now and metaanalyses looking at these where they've done very carefully controlled uh Trials of people on calor restricted diets against uh control groups and yes nearly everyone will reduce rate when you you you you say half the the amount of calories they're they're eating and they can sustain that for a while uh but then that body starts to react against it we've had uh you millions of years of evolution to ensure that um we don't lose vital amounts of muscle and fat that we still keep them and so after that initial period of euphoria oh this is easy you know I'm losing weight your body starts ramping up its defense mechanisms to stop you stop you losing too much of your valuable tissue it senses you're in this starvation mode and it goes to survival mode and that means absolutely ramping up those signals to the brain saying to eat more so your appetite signals all the time you see food you think about food you can't you're obsessed about eating more and so it's really hard to uh not go past that fridge and uh and not dive in or uh have a snack then you've also got your metabolism which at the same time is slowed right down so it is conserving uh your energy rather than Bur burning it up it's trying to keep every little scrap of fat and muscle in your body so you are actually fighting against nature by doing that if you are purely following a calorie approach to this and many people doing these low calorie diets are often taking junk foods and things that get into the system very quickly may not have the right amount of fiber all all kinds of things they're ignoring because they're focusing just on this one measure of food and how understand because you mentioned food quality so again I think a lot of people thinking food is fuel right if it's not calories then maybe it's like the macronutrient like carbs and and fat what is this quality thing food is isn't just an energy source for our body it's also an energy source for our gut microbes and I think that's another way to to look at food as get an idea of how we're discovering it's much more complex and so as well as uh just you know providing sugar sugar for example for our cells to burn it should be providing fiber for our microbes to feed off for those of you who haven't heard about the gut microbiome this is the community of 100 trillion microbes that live in our gut most of them in our body are in this lower part of our intestine and basically we have to nourish them every day with food for them to produce all the chemicals that keep our body really fit and healthy keep our immune system stop us from aging stop us getting cancer uh and help keep us happy send chemicals to our brain so we need to send complex fibers down to those guys all the time to keep them happy and that's really also one of the key factors of of food quality that is totally ignored if we're only focusing on calories and I think Jonathan it's important to add that as well as counting calories not being a sustainable way to lose weight is that actually back of pack calorie information is highly in accurate and so we know that for some foods it can over or underestimate the amount of calories by up to about 30% 30% yes we also know that food is so much more than just the amount of energy that it gives us it's so much more than the macronutrients I know most people are familiar with you know the amount of protein fat uh carbohydrate for example food contains thousands of chemicals and all of these chemicals have magical properties in our body and have different kinds of properties in our body if we become overfocused on the nutrients or the calories then we're not getting the correct diversity of these different kinds of chemicals which is important and also Foods there to be enjoyed I often say as you know Jonathan if a food is too healthy to be enjoyed it's just not healthy at all and we have to remember that eating is part of our culture it's part of how we live our lives our social setting our lifestyle and we need to make sure that in a quest to eat healthy food we still retain that pleasure that we get from food I agree and has come up on a lot of podcasts actually isn't it about this idea that um our our social lives actually have this hugely positive impact on our health so clearly what you want to do with your food is support that in the way we think we talk about U Mediterranean diet quite often one of the things I'm always struck by when you're in the Mediterraneans how long people sit down and eat their food together and I know that um you've shared some of this data and they're not stressed about eating and I think this is the other thing if people are on diets there's some evidence to show that actually you stressed when you sit down to your meal because you're worrying about counting things and looking at the pack and not overdoing it and that probably offsets any potential advantage and so we want to get people to sit down to a good meal that's based on quality not calories and absolute each time really enjoy that moment so if people are you know they're waking up on uh on January the 1 and they're listening to this should they now be saying I've got to restrict myself and cut out lots of foods from my diet in order to be healthy this year absolutely not I think that it's really important we focus on adding healthy foods in increasing the diversity of our plate rather than worrying about taking specific Foods out and by adding in healthier foods naturally you will displace some of the less healthy foods all right let's move to the second strategy um and this one is that fat is not your enemy so Sarah many of us grew up being told that actually fat is your enemy it's bad for us you should be looking to restrict it as much as possible and that if you eat lots of fat you will get fat is this all true absolutely not fat is your friend fat is your friend it is okay some people who have not been listening to the podcast are going to be a bit shocked tell us so Fat's your friend firstly because it makes food taste great and we want to enjoy our food so fat carries the flavor in food it also creates that beautiful creamy mouth feel of food I don't know if you've ever tried low fat cheese but it tastes like crap and the reason is is because you haven't got the fat carrying the beautiful flavor giving the is really required for you to get that that taste um chocolate why does chocolate taste great because it melts in your mouth cocoa butter melts at 37 deges body temperature is 37° you put it in your mouth and you've got that beautiful mouth F it's all about the fat so firstly it makes our food taste great and it should be pointed out that Sarah has been studying fat for 25 years so are you quite a fat you're a fat fan girl I have been teaching on the positive effects of fat the entire past 20 years so why have we all grown up with this assumption that fat is bad for us and does that mean that all fat is good for you and we should go back to eating you know as much steak as possible so first I think the misconceptions based around the energy density of fat and so what we know is per gram of fat there's twice as many calories as per gram of carbohydrate and protein so there's this perception that therefore it will cause us to put weight on it will CA the fat will cause us to be fat because of how many calories there are per gram of fat but this is wrong and most doctors like me you know we brought up like that and change to lowfat yogurts uh without you know knowing really what we're doing just because it seemed a nice Simple Story yeah and therefore everybody followed it and uh the industry gave people what they wanted and suddenly you go into supermarket and half the products are low fat but it's very shortsighted so in the 80s there was this explosion of lowfat no fat reduced fat products obviously with the removal of fat we have to replace it with something else and we don't know the health effects often of what um has replaced the fat we also know though quite clearly that actually increasing your intake from fat actually isn't associated with weight gain so it's all it's it's just not true if you eat more fat you don't end up putting on more weight compared to within reason Jonathan like obviously if someone goes and has like five slabs of butter every day got but it's not because it's but if you move to a high fat diet versus like a lowfat diet you don't put on so if you go from a lowfat diet to a high fat diet you'll find that actually a large proportion of people might even reduce their body weight some people will just maintain their body weight but what's L people saying that's sort of crazy are you saying that I could eat a lot of fat and still could lose weight so fat makes us feel full for longer it delays the rate at which our stomach empties food which again helps us create that feeling of fullness so it also controls our blood sugar levels as well so that we tend to consume less calories potentially later in the day and what about health because I think what a lot of people um associate is um this idea that it's linked to having heart attacks and you know I think about my I've talked about this on the podcast before like my father been given this advice 50 years ago that he needed to eat a very lowfat diet because he had high cholesterol and therefore he was at risk um and that is this true that's wrong so what we know is there are some types of fat that are linked to increased risk of heart disease because it increases our blood cholesterol so there's particular kinds of saturated fat and so the kind of saturated fat that's found in many processed Meats for example or other red meats and often in quite processed foods so from Tropical Oil sources for example there's other saturated fats that are found in fermented dairy that we know actually don't increase your cholesterol and this is one of those big myths out there that people are told you've got high cholesterol don't eat dairy actually that's wrong as well you can eat dairy particularly cheese yogurt for example yeah fermented dairy is is generally healthier than than plain Dairy and and you don't need to go for lowfat dairy either so we know that there's some fats that saturated fats that are bad for us we know that there's some saturated fats that actually aren't bad for us but really important we know there's some fats that are great for us so great for our health great for our health what are they if somebody's listening they're about to go and stock up the kitchen for January with fats so there's a type of uh fat called essential fatty acids and these are actually essential for our health they're really important for normal physiological function meaning that you would basically die if you you die without okay they sound important um and they have loads of really important functions almost like pharmacological like functions in our body yes um but there's also lots of other fats that we call are monounsaturated and other polyunsaturated fats that we know have really important functionings actually they don't in that way so how do I find this in the grocery store because I haven't seen the mono unsaturated fat aisle where do I get these so we know that any unsaturated fat is good for our health and there's loads of different sources of these so one that's a great source is olive oil so extra virgin olive oil which I know Tim is one of your favorites uh to have so not only is it full of what we call heart healthy oils it's also packed full of polyphenols so what you'll often find is that these healthy sources of fat also have lots of other fantastic nutrients in them as well anything else other than extra virin nuts avocados oily fish so many different plant-based sources es of oils and I think this is one of the things that like personally sort of blew my mind when I first really got involved um with Zoe because I had moved to like avoiding all of those things pretty much because they're bad for you and so this idea that you could actually pour a lot more extra virgin olive oil over almost any meal and make it healthier it's slightly mind-blowing it's one of the big shifts that I've made um in my own diet as is also thinking that eating nuts is really good for me versus thinking like oh they're like really high fat that must be something that I need to avoid so I think those are two in my own personal case like really easy shifts I think have made a a big difference in my um in my diet each week yeah I would say avoid lowfat no fat reduced fat products yeah that's a very simple rule if it's says uh low fat no fat just leave it on the Shelf brilliant let's move to strategy number three which is very simple eat more plants so Tim I know this was really your top pick for improving your health in 2024 can you explain why yeah it's a a cal that if you do eat more plants then you're going to get so many extra benefits and we know that plants are an incredible source of many things including obviously everyone knows their source of fiber and we are as in the US and the UK massively fiber deficient only about 5% of us get enough fiber so 95% of us not getting enough so you get that through plants and you get through you want diverse fiber you don't just want the same fiber so getting multiple different plants into your diet is really important to feed your gut microbes which feed the rest of your body the um other reason we've come up with uh eating more plants is it also gives you enormous amounts of protein and people forget get they think they've got to eat steak or you know I think a lot of people will be really surprised by that you know again I was definitely brought up with like protein is a piece of meat or if you're being like really healthy maybe a piece of fish no I don't think that even count when I was growing I don't think even no really that was that was full of fat so that's like fat of course allow that's like like literally protein is like something that our ancestors might have hunted and everything else is not Protein that's not right that's absolutely not right and that's is this is a whole failure of our education system and why we're not you know teaching kids this and and chefs and and and schools and even universities really the the key that you can get protein everywhere and there are certain plants have more protein than others but there you know some like the grains for example that um quinoa that have around 10% of it is actually protein you've got your pastors at around 8% Anders what is a pulse beans legumes chickpeas a lot of protein in a bean there's masses of it yes so again you know often over 10% and it they'll vary and you're getting different types of proteins so let's imagine I managed to convince my son to listen to this podcast which is unlikely but let's just say that I manage you he's just 16 he's starting to um uh put on a lot of muscle and he's really focused now on like making sure that he's getting enough protein and he doesn't believe that unless he's sort of going to be eating lots of meat that he can possibly get enough protein to actually like put on all those muscles and you know grow up to him be a man what would you what would you say Tim I'd say there are many other ways to build get muscle through purely plant-based uh proteins and there are many successful uh bodybuilders who are on a plant only diet so you're not saying he has to be on a plant only diet but you're saying he doesn't have to stress about eating meat order only Dart or egg only Dart or only having these protein shakes and uh this stuff you can do that with a healthy uh meal with even only just having occasional meat because there are so many plants and legumes and related uh products like mushrooms that going to give you protein and so people just forget that uh this is very much a constituent of plants and that that's really why I want to just remind people that if they have a diverse of plants they're going to be getting sufficient protein maybe just actually just help us to understand what a plant is because again I think I think back to when I first heard that like a plant is something I put in the garden a plant is not something that I eat so a plant is obviously your fruits and your vegetables but it's also a nut it's also a seed it can be a herb it can be a spice it can uh be actually uh Cho dark chocolate because actually that's derived from a fermented plant it can be uh I love the dark chocolate might be a plant I'm smirking here in the corner that coffee is a plant coffee is a plant and so I think it's I'm sorry I'm going on a plant-based diet for um 2024 called the chocolate diet well and you know by that nature yes wine and cider also planted food wine and chocolate so most of the foods we eat are plant-based I think that's what we we seem to forget in this world where we get things out of packets and uh uh it's composite so when we're saying to we want to eat people to eat more plants we mean the whole plant rather than just a small extract of it so uh it's the difference between uh having a corn on the cob or having Corn Flakes um the corn on the carob you can you can see exactly what it is that's in its purest form you boil it you see it there might be an intermediate one where you might have had it cooked and put in a in a can and then you got the ultr processed version of it which uh doesn't resemble the original one at all there's none of the outer coating none of the goodness none of the fiber none of the nutrients see it's still recognizable as as the plant I think that's the key um there is one act exception here mushrooms are not plants they're not um meat they're another kingdom but mushrooms I would definitely include in this group so I don't want them to feel uh if there any mushroom lovers who are feeling um they're allow as well yeah they're in in my in my group and I think we our studies so far have shown that around 30 different types of plant a week is your Optimum for gut health I think we probably we're going to be revising that number soon but it's a reasonable something to Bear In Mind as a Target I think a lot of people who've listened to me before on this and a Zoe have found that a useful Target to get to to try not only uh eat more fiber and protein but also get all the other polyphenols in these plants because the more different ones the different colors the different flavors the different levels of bitterness you're getting more of these chemicals there are 50,000 chemicals in plants and you want a diversity of chemicals in order to help your body both directly indirectly via feeding your gut microbes and the better the menu you're giving them the more they the happier they are and the more chemicals they respond with and this is why you want something that's you know not massively processed so it's just down to something very simple like um you know like a white rice or a white flour it's because you've lost so many of these chemicals that were in the original plants so I I would think about the healthiness of a plant using three key tips one is does it reasonably resemble the the original plant are we having enough diversity so like Tim said are we getting a diversity of maybe 30 different plants and what about the quality of that plant as well because if it is heavily processed has loads of added chemicals doesn't resemble the original plant it doesn't mean it's healthy for us don't forget that Frozen and canned um vegetables are fantastic generally in terms of nutrients so it's not like it has to be the super expensive high-end uh of plants many of them you can just get from the cheap freezer we did a whole podcast on this about sort of being able to eat more cheaply and interestingly again one of the things I've really shifted actually just in the the last 18 months since that is the amount of stuff that I'm eating from tins particularly things like beans and also the amount of stuff that's now in the freezer which means that suddenly you can cook with a bunch of things really fast which i' never thought about so I've definitely found those two tips great and completely the opposite of what I thought which is FR Frozen and canned food is bad and I think you guys have generally convinced me often it's got the best in terms of the things I've got yeah often it actually is more nutritious if it's frozen because it retains some of the um vitamins that might be degraded from either air or light like vitamin C so often it can actually be better for you let's move to strategy number four reduce Ultra processed foods so can we just start with what is an ultra processed food and why is it bad for us there's no uniform definition of an ultra processed food the simplest one is that it comes in a a package and the back of the label includes ingredients you wouldn't find in your kitchen and don't resemble anything that you would cook with so this means that it's contains bits of foods that have been extracted from real food and then combined together with glue and gums and colorants and flavorings and lots of fat and and sugar to stick it together it's then pressurized baked and comes out in some form that is looks like food like so I call them edible food-like substances and I think that summarizes it pretty well there there are some grading systems which are complicated to go into but I think the take a message it's in a packet um it's probably got all these Health Halo labels on it that we Health Halo label saying it's low in fat or uh low in calories or it's got extra vitamins um all these nonsense claims and why are they not Tim lots of people are saying oh that's you know it's gray it says like high in vitamin C or high in fiber why would that be nonsense claims because any small addition that they've made to it by reformulating it doesn't hide the fact that the the underlying food is likely to be harmful for you long term and so these we call them Health Halos because it's a bit like you know painting a turd you don't actually uh it's still a turd um and you wouldn't eat it even if it's got a nice color on it so this is essentially what the manufacturers are doing that's a poop for anybody who doesn't know what Tim is referring to so the reason that these are bad for us is because they tend to be higher in unhealthy nutrients they tend to be higher in salt higher sugar higher in unhealthy saturated fats they tend to be lower in healthy nutrients so lower in fiber good quality fats good quality proteins they tend to be low in a lot of the really healthy chemicals that come from natural plants so these polyphenols they also tend to have lots of added ingredients like emulsifiers and additives that we don't fully know how they impact our body and then importantly they also have a food structure that has been destroyed and by destroying the original food structure it changes how fast we eat the food so we know that we can eat Ultra processed food for example 50% more quickly than an unprocess 50% more quickly and this can in uh go on to make us eat up to 500 calories more over day which is huge so it means we're overeating the foods as well it also changes where our body digests the food so what happens is is it's digested earlier up in our gastrointestinal tract where we have less of the receptors telling us we're full so we tend to not feel as full as quickly again encouraging us to overeat these Foods yeah so it's the biggest disaster really uh in uh in Western countries is the rise of ultra processed food that's taken over since the 1970s from whole real foods and as we've focused on just trying to reformulate them to to reduce the total amounts of fat or uh dial down the amount of salt or sugar we've ignored all these all the other facts that Sarah's been talking about that the the structure the way that these foods are designed to make us overeat them and if we keep them eating them regularly that just means we will overeat more of them and they're low fiber so we're in a state of fiber deprivation continuously but we want to eat more and more of these products and we're now at a state where nearly 60% on average across the U the US and the UK of our meals are ultr processed 60% of the food we're eating in the US and the UK is ultra processed yeah it's corre and it's worse in deprived areas so that's the average so you think what it's like for for poorer families and that explains why you know their their life expectancy is 10 years less uh there's a clear correlation between ultra-processed food and uh longevity and all these M multiple disease problems we're having and there doesn't seem to be any discussion about ultr processed food within the food guidelines be that in the states or really across anywhere in in Western Europe I think some countries have introduced these uh these are are countries that don't have the same political pressures on them uh to do nothing and the US and the UK are heavily lobbied by these massive food companies that have hundred billion dollar budgets they can spend on uh lobbying and making sure that the industry comes first that the idea that you know there's a manufacturing base that is important for each country so they stop this happening effectively like the cigarette companies did in delaying any legislation against them the food companies have find it incredibly profitable because they have long shelf lives they can package them it can last for two years and each year they're finding more innovative ways to automate the process make it cheaper doesn't require manual labor at all and they are uh really brilliant scientists behind making these these these novel products uh which are these edible food-like substances whilst real food is getting more expensive so the differential is clearer and as many people are are struggling with cost of live they're buying more of these products not less and the profit margins are huge on them so on cereals for example profit margins around 30% so they can afford to do huge advertising to children and uh it's so easy to produce these products unlike poor old Farmers you know making pears or apples or whatever um they're not given the same sort of help uh that Automation and Industry and and Robotics and things can do for the the food industry so that's why we're in this mess and it costs individual taxpayers thousands of pounds or or dollars a year uh that we're paying for all the health costs of this junk food given to our populations and so it does affect everybody whether you eat it or not you're actually paying for it I think that's the point I think Jonathan though we can add a positive note here that yes we're eating far too much of these unhealthy heavily processed foods but actually even a small reduction can have an big impact on your health and that's really important to remember because it's all very well are saying all of these reasons why they're so unhealthy for us but the current food landscape is what the current food landscape is and you go into a supermarket and like I said it's very difficult to actually avoid these ultr processed foods so what I would say to people you don't need to totally eliminate them you could every month try and Reduce by like 10% try and swap out a few products that are heavily processed with unprocessed Foods that's still going to have a big impact okay don't go cold turkey we don't want to ever set anyone up at Zoe to fail and that's why it's really important to say look even a small reduction is going to have a big impact we need to think about the fact of of what is accessible to us I love that message now I think a lot of people will be listening to and saying but I don't eat any Ultra processed foods are they right or what might be the foods that are like hiding that they don't even realize are Ultra processed era so there's lots of ultra processed foods that we might not typically think a alra process so a lot of the kind of cereal bars that you get that again have these like Health Halos say high fiber full of Oats they're actually really heavily processed they don't resemble anything like the original food they came from virtually all breakfast cereals I'd say wouldn't you yep and breakfast cereals um also many yogurts so many of these uh fruit flavored sweetened low fat low sugar yogurts are actually also quite heavily processed as well as most most Supermarket breads um biscuits cakes most ready meals you know again this is one of those things that's been a relatively new discovery for me going to like the grocery store and looking at all the the yoga or the yogurt depending upon which country you're in and realizing that basically almost every single one on something that might go on for the entire aisle is all Ultra process and maybe you can find like one or two things that are not is a bit of an eye opener so I find that this is one of those things where when you start to realize it it really um changes the way you think about the food that we're eating for ourselves giving our children have you found this interesting if so I'd love you to help us with our mission to improve the health of millions do you know someone who could benefit from hearing Tim and Sarah's actionable advice on what to eat in 2024 if so please share it with them right now okay that's it thank you and back to the show let's talk about strategy number five reduce your blood sugar spikes so Sarah um lots of people have like heard this word blood sugar and blood sugar crashes but like what are they and why would you want to reduce repeated blood sugar spice Jonathan when you eat carbohydrates so this is a nutrient that's found in bread in rice and pasta in all of the foods that we eat you have a shortterm increase in blood sugar uh which we actually call blood glucose and that reaches a peak around 15 to 30 minutes after you've eaten that food what some people have and we see this is anywhere between 25 to 50% of people also about 2 to four hours after they've had these carbohydrate rich foods have a dip in their blood sugar and we know spikes up and then for some people it can also dip down yeah I think of it a little bit like going on a roller coaster now I'm scared of roller coasters so it's not something I like and what we know is if you have these Peaks going up repeatedly excessively Time After Time throughout the day that they can predispose us to certain chronic diseases predispose us to type two diabetes cardiovascular disease so heart disease um and also increase our risk of developing um obesity as well and this is because they impact the lining of our blood vessels they impact inflammation in our body what we also know and we know this from our own research and this is really interesting that for those people that have a dip as well so that's the dip in the roller coaster two to four hours after they've had this carbohydrate Rich meal they actually feel a lot more hungry than those that don't have a dip they go on to eat a lot more calories up to 300 more calories over day than the people that don't have um a dip they feel less alert um and uh they also might feel what we you know that kind of feeling of being hungry um because that you've got this low blood sugar and they might reach for that chalky bicki at at at at 11:00 and people might recognize that slight feeling oh I've got a bit of a low here I need some sugar to get me going and uh I didn't ever link it to uh actually having a real blood sugar change mind yeah totally seen these results and these people who were blinded to their blood sugar we did this in the in the predict studies they didn't know what was going in their blood sugar and they were reporting they were feeling low energy um and hungry they were eating half an hour before the people that didn't have these dips as well as eating what saying and this is like this blood sugar shooting up crashing down below and starting what was actually leading people to say like I've just got to go and eat this is a consequence of what they ate before so funny enough the first food they ate was sort of forcing them to eat the second food it's commoner in women interesting than men and it it obviously does depend on what they if they had a a a Carby breakfast you know typical British breakfast of toasted marmalade or uh a moly or or some breakfast cereal then get to work and then they'd have this dip and I think many people listening will will you know remember that uh and it we think it's about one in three women are are in that position and you know the science is now telling us it's for real it's not just a psychological uh you know thing I'm a bit tired at work I need to sit down and a and a and a bicki um this is physiological and uh if you add up all those events over 10 or 20 years you can see why just uh because of this sugar dip actually you're going to be putting on a lot of weight you have more mood problems more energy problems Etc so does this mean that people should just stop eating carbohydrates and just eat all the healthy fats you were telling us about no absolutely not so what's really interesting is from our predict research we also found that some people have a dip one day depending on their breakfast but actually can change the type of breakfast they're having to not have a dip so you don't it doesn't mean that you're always going to have a dip after having your meal it's about changing the type of carbohydrate that you have so what you want to do again is focus on the quality of the carbohydrate and what you want to do is slow down the rate at which your carbohydrate is entering your bloodstream so you don't get this sudden Peak and then that sudden crash and nature has a wonderful way of doing that by actually having fiber with most carbohydrates if you eat yeah unrefined carbohydrates so you want to avoid what we call refined carbohydrates and these are the kind of carbohydrate that you'll get from white bread white rice white pasta for example the more fiber that is in the carbohydrate so from whole grain varieties that's going to slow down the rate at which your stomach empties and it's going to blunt that Peak also adding other kinds of nutrients and foods to your meal will help so if you add fat if you add um protein as well that again slows down the rate at which your stomach empties so what are the because I think often people listen to this like oh I better give up all carbs that's terrible could you get some more examples of like what are healthy carbs that are not going to cause these blood sugar spikes and I guess it's still supporting some of the things that you were just talking about before about making sure you're eating all these plants and plants are basically carbohydrates aren't they yeah I think also you can mix up your meals as well so it's not about take again it's not about taking away your carbohydrates so what you could do is if you like I don't know like you know a chicken curry for example you could have slightly less rice more of the chicken more of the healthy oils and more of the vegetables um in that meal vegetables pulses have carbohydrates in but because they have so much fiber in them as well and for pulses they also have the protein you're slowing down down you're you're changing a a fast carbohydrate to a slow carbohydrate and that's what we want to do instead of the rice you could have quinoa or you could um have lentils uh which are also carbohydrates but they have a very different different profile more fiber you know more protein and so rather than white rice so I think many there's many swaps I mean I find I have great with with breads but if it's basically a rye bread I'm fine so I think everyone needs to find out what suits them and experiment more and just not accept that the staple is the one they should always go for but um so yeah so choosing different ones adding things to it you know I always add cheese to most of my stuff it seems to do the trick as well because I love cheese but I'm I'm not realized not everyone will do that and also eating Foods in their original structure so if you take a whole apple or a whole Orange versus apple juice or orange juice that has hugely different impact on your blood sugar level help us understand because I think a lot of people you know if anyone listening is is a zo member they'll say look when I go and look at the the score for my Apple it's really good it says I can e it sort of every day for almost everybody I think listening whereas you know everybody looking on their apple juices seeing that score is really bad so it's the same thing right it's the apples are smashed up and turned to apple juice how can they not have the same advice for people to eat so you've got two things happening firstly you're changing what I would call a slow food so a food that you can only eat at a certain Pace into a fast food and so if you were to have a whole Apple versus a glass of apple juice that glass of apple juice can be drunk in half or quarter of the time that you're going to eat that Apple so you've got this sudden flux of glucose coming into your bloodstream also many of the juices that you buy don't have the fiber as well from the food and so again not having the fiber means that your stomach empties really quickly so again you have have this really fast surge of glucose going into your bloodstream so you're going super fast on that roller coaster there's virtually no fiber in most orange juice you there's more more fiber in coffee than orange juice so I think all the good stuff has been taken away in that transition and all the cells have been broken up Etc so that exactly the structure of the food is really important that comes back to this sort of ultra processing of foods the more it's ground up and crunched up it's going to have a faster effect big effect on your blood sugar um but you know everyone is different when I was doing the Zoe test with my wife you know she could eat a Quant and have hardly any a little flicker whereas mine was way over the top really annoying and so um there will be people out there you know with their Partners ending up with quite different uh blood sugar profiles um which you know if they have a glucose monitor is easy easy to spot if you don't have one it you know you have to to sort of actually think about how your body is responding and as Sarah was talking about these dips just think about what's happening two or three hours afterwards maybe keep a log book these kind of things to see if you can uh guess what your your body's doing and then swap things around see you know by changing your breakfast can you change that dip which suggests you are uh quite sugar responsive and I think we can listen to our body our bodies are such incredible machines and I know that Tim and I um about a year ago did the experiment where I made him have a full sugar Coke and I had a full sugar Coke I don't typically have fizzy drinks like that although I'm I do eat carbohydrates about 30 minutes after having I actually felt sweaty and clammy and my heart was racing a little bit um and then I had that crash a swell now normally I'd be too busy rushing around with my day to notice it but at that point of time I was just texting Tim on my metrics of my heart rate changing um but actually you can feel a swell what's going on and this is one of the amazing things isn't it when you you do something like Zoe and during the testing part as you're getting the data that then delivers the program you start to get this Insight right and I know I have very bad blood sugar control that's one of the things that really shocked me and so the first time that you do this and you say I've just eaten for example like you know the um the breakfast I'd been eating for a decade I thought was really healthy and you see your blood sugar go up through the roof and then come down as you say sometimes you in my case I was also dipping it's like wow I feel really bad an hour and a half later I was just used to that that's just part of like Jonathan as a human being like Oh that's actually really driven by what I eat and I guess it ties back to what you said earlier Sarah about how by changing your you know someone listening to this changing their diet could actually be feeling better in just a few months time yeah and my top tip is don't try and do everything Co at once just like we said with the ultra processed food you don't need to go cold turkey with this if you can make one change which is changing your breakfast or your snacks which actually account for a huge proportion of our energy and particularly your breakfast so that you don't set off on that roller coaster is a really simple change that you can make by adding in um fiber by adding in protein by adding in healthy fats my one tip from this is I was drinking a lot of smoothies before this because I was understood that that was really healthy right it's got all of these fruit and vegetables and plants that I was hearing you both talk about um and actually it turned out that basically I was just drinking a massive amount of sugar SP in my um my my blood and not getting the same benefits because you sort of destroyed a lot of those fiber that you were talking about so I think giving up the smoothies and just going to eating the underlying fruit which still has just the same amount of sugar in it completely changed what I saw happen to my blood sugar and has definitely changed the way that I I feel so I think that's quite an easy change because it's one of those it's one of those many things that I think people are doing that they think is good for their health and turns out not to be which I always find like is the most frustrating where where you're like I was doing that because I thought it was the right thing to do yeah I mean there are some smoothies that are can still be healthy but the ones that are mainly fruit-based you you you'll get exactly as you described um but if you you can put nuts and seeds and uh more uh vegetables than than uh sugary fruits and get some benefit but I think it's just thinking about it in a different way and I think that that's what we're trying to get across here is a a new way of thinking about food that isn't just about uh macronutrients and um it isn't just about calories it's you know what about the quality of the food what effect is that having on your body and start people thinking about it how is it affecting me and uh yeah either they get the new technology or have a notebook and start thinking about it brilliant strategy number six nourish your gut microbiome with fermented foods and this is definitely one for Tim um because we know you're really passionate about this what are fermented foods and why should anyone listening be eating any of them most people already eat lots of fermented foods they just don't know they're called that so these are foods that are essentially Probiotic foods where they have live microbes in them and those live live microbes normally live in that food and convey a health benefit to us humans and the one that most people know is say yogurt because you transer you mix cow's milk with three bacteria and you produce yogurt at a certain temperature because those bacteria multiply when that temperature drops from a high temperature down to the temperature which they love and that then it sets in the fridge and that's yogurt in its simplest form only has two ingredients really milk and microbes and that there are many others so there's uh fermented uh milk which which goes like a super yogurt called cfia which uh you have usually over a dozen microbes and that process uh is drawn by cfir grains where you add you add to it rather than just three microbes and that's more powerful then you've got things like fermented tea kombucha which uh is a colony of about 30 microbes that grows like a little blob uh and this this blob of community of microbes and and and yeast eats tea and sugar and converts it into a nice drink then you've got Kim cheese which are uh basically sauerkraut cabbage which is another one but this is the Korean version where they add chilies and garlic and celery and various other um spices so the 4ks is the other way to remember this um cafir uh kombucha kimchi and Kraut let's not forget cheese because I think everyone forgets that actually cheese is perhaps one of the original fermented foods and they they matter because multiple Studies have shown that people who have regular fermented foods uh have less heart disease and uh less General other disease problems and there's been some really detailed clinical trials now in humans showing that you having multiple portions of these a day you can have a really big impact on your immune system so what's what's going on just help us understand because you're talking about these fermented foods what look you're giving your gut microbiome a great big party like Tim had uh last night for New Year's Eve but without the hangover exactly so basically you're it's a party and you're inviting real party people uh to come down and and add to the existing uh party that's beginning to sort of fade a bit down in your in your gut okay so this is you're bring you're busing in a whole load of new microbes to the party and they're bringing champagne with them and and new gifts and this is invigorating your existing set of gut microbes and they probably don't last there a long time they don't stay there necessarily they eventually pass through but whilst they're there they've livened that party up and they've really stimulated the immune system and that's what the biggest thing is and dropped levels of inflammation so demonstrably showing big changes in your in your blood tests so this is back to this idea that the the bacteria inside our gut are really important to our health and this is a way to sort of improve what's going on with them yes it's there's a there's a belief that we sort of evolved the need to eat these extra microbes be to enhance what was already inside our gut uh as a as a way of improving that the Whole Health of our gut microbiome so that those microbes can really fine-tune our immune system and also help things like our mood to stop us getting depressed and there's plenty of studies now showing that these probiotics can have effect on our brains and you just mentioned probiotics so a lot lot of people listening will have heard of probiotics as a sort of like a pill that you could pop would would they be better to take the probiotic instead of this fermented food a fermented food is basic basically uh a probiotic set of microbes that live in your food rather than in a capsule in your chemist okay and so they naturally live there they can reproduce and that you know they're live because you can smell them and they're your cheese and your yogurt and those ones are going to do good for you they're the same species that people bottle up and sell to you in a more expensive way in your chemist shop and have similar effects on the body except generally when you're having fermented foods you're having many more of them so you're getting uh if you have a variety of them you're probably getting over 30 or 40 different species of these microbes uh every day if you mix it up and that's what the studies are showing is that you need to have these fermented foods uh little and often so multiple different ones in a day um so I like to have uh yogurt I like to have cafir I like to have um some kimchi I like to have um some kombucha I think for many people listening the fermented food feels quite alien it's not food that they are used to growing up with you've mentioned quite a lot of um fermented foods that are like you know kimchi like who's heard of this um if you weren't um Korean so it is a real shift I think for a lot of people and I think what's interesting is this is also something Tim that I've heard you'd be much more keen about now than you were 5 years ago so it's clearly something I think that you you're getting access to sort of this this Cutting Edge of Science in this conversation I think as well Tim it would be nice to know some everyday products so that doesn't sound kind of uh unusual so what kind of cheeses could we have that we would consider more kind of everyday on the shelves in our fridge products well I think virtually all the cheeses that aren't ultr processed I they don't come out of a tube or they're not in a in a slice that lasts for for 5 years on the Shelf uh not pizza cheeses but all the other regular cheeses normal standard cheddar for example you get from a supermarket uh still is going to contain uh at least three good species of of microbe you're going to increase that as you get to more Artisan cheeses but even the basic cheese you know the normal cream cheese you get from a supermarket has microbs in it that's why it goes moldy if it never goes moldy that's a sign that actually there's it does never changes its its flavor profile or its shape so you know a cheddar a soft French cheese you know Supermarket Brie C they're all good you go up to another level if you pay a bit more and you get those Artisan cheeses or you get one's blue cheese because they've got extra bits of uh little fungi in there that uh increase the numbers of different microbes and if you go to un pasturized uh cheese you get a few more but I definitely don't want to give the idea you only have to eat unpasturized raw milk cheeses although I prefer them um pasteurized cheeses are still really good source of these um probiotics and as a great source of fermented food and we're definitely hitting time on this strategy there is a whole podcast that we did with the father of modern fermentation and uh it even inspired uh my wife and I to try this at home it turns out fermenting your own like Sauer crra is incredibly easy um and actually lots of fun so I reckon recommend checking that podcast out we are now on the final strategy number seven stick to an eating window so I have a window in my house but what is an eating window and do I have one of those so when we talk about eating window we talk about the period in time from when we have our first meal of the day to when we have our l meal of the day and generally I think we're actually having an eating window that's too long so generally I think lots of people are starting to eat very early in the morning and more importantly just keep snacking until my breakfast at 8: in the morning and I finish my last say chocolate and maybe a glass of wine at 10 so that's 14 hours that I've been eating that's a 14 hour period and what we now know is that if you can reduce your eating window even if it's just by a little bit that it can actually improve your health it can improve your levels of cholesterol it can improve your levels of blood sugar it can improve your inflammation and it can also um result in weight loss as well for some people now there's lots of trials that have shown that having an eating window of let's say six hours have a really quite strong favorable health effects but we now know from our own uh research where we did the big if study that actually even going down to just a 12 or a 10hour eating window so that means for example having your breakfast at at 10:00 in the morning and finishing your last eating event so your dinner or your last snack at 8:00 in the evening that can have significant impacts on how you feel your mood your energy your hunger it can also be associated with weight loss as well and this is against the backdrop of not telling anyone how else to change their diet so we know from clinical trials and our own work that if we say look just change when you have your first or your last meal of the day that unintentionally they reduce their energy intake from anywhere from two to 300 calories and also in addition to that there's all of these other favorable health effects as well so what's going on because it sounds sort of crazy right most of us are thinking food is really fuel that's where we started so just saying to like only eat for 12 hours and not eat for 12 hours sounds totally irrelevant well I think a way to think of it is the same way as we get sleep uh all humans need sleep we have a circadian rhythm once you know we all know after you know hard partying over the over the season uh we're not feeling up to it and so it's the same for our gut microbes and our gut if we don't give it time to rest if we're eating late night snacks then it's always working it hasn't got time to repair itself hasn't got time to get things back in order before the the breakfast is coming down in the morning oh we've got to deal with that again why doesn't Jonathan give us a break you know I mean he keeps putting stuff down here we're trying to keep up why can't you be like Tim I am a famous late night dark chocolate snacker so yes so I think we're working out that the whole body needs a Cadian Rhythm needs regularity it needs an activity time it needs a quiet repair time and Studies have shown that if you do rest the gut micro biome by not putting food down there for uh 12 to 14 hours or 16 hours you're going to get a much healthier set of gut microbes the immune system is going to be better the gut barrier which we rely on to uh keep the bad bugs out and also really important for our immune system is much stronger in those cases so that's the that's what's going on in the gut microbes and they're producing then sort of healthier chemicals in response and they're not there got less inflammation so I think the idea is rest your gut microbes just like you would you need sleep don't have those late night snacks don't keep throwing things down that that tube you want to give them the the time to recuperate so they're really ready to go in the morning and they can really help you and this is the same for all of the cells in our body every cell in our body has its own clock and that clock isn't designed to cope with being fed 24 hours a day and I think more and more we're eating for longer periods of time and importantly eating late into the evening and we know that that's probably particularly bad for us that if you eat later in the evening you actually wake up more hungry uh the next day we also know from our own research if you eat late in the evening It's associated with lots of unfavorable effects in our body such as inflammation such as high uh blood cholesterol such as higher weight as well everyone's different I think that was the other thing we did in this massive survey uh I think we've got people there's some notes on this we can look at but the um big if study showed that a third of people did this really successfully um so over over 100,000 people signed up over 34,000 managed to do this really successfully but there was a difference about a third of those people found it more beneficial to um finish eating earlier in the day had an early breakfast like you wake up hungry in the morning said I've got to get my breakfast I can't do this without and then ended up finishing eating at about 6 o' and two-thirds of people uh went the other way and said I'd rather uh not eat anything before 11 o'clock in the morning and go later so I think it's there isn't one size fits all it is about personalization and this is a great way people can uh experiment at home uh by really it's one of the places where I think I've seen massive personalization between people where some people find this almost transformational right and often using it as part of trying to really improve their health along with ch shifting food going to quite a narrow um eating window finding that it's great and and has a huge impact I'm someone who finds it awful to have this really narrow eating window but it has really changed my view because I think I was definitely brought up with this idea you must have breakfast and I see this even with our children and sometimes um Justine and I oh well you know it's really terrible um if they leave without breakfast but actually now comes to if they're not hungry actually it's fine and and I am myself now more flexible we've also had some very interesting conversations about you know sometimes doing exercise potentially fasted as well as having eaten breakfast it actually just like we were told a lot of things you just have to do and it turns out that a lot of this was not based on a lot of science no all the rules are going out the window really I mean I think this is this is the the really thing we you know every time we do another podcast we sort of throw a few other those rules out the window that our parents had taught us and uh yeah it's it's it's a it's a fascinating time for self- experimentation and uh as Sarah was saying really trying to listen to your body and I think this is it's a perfect example of how everyone's different there isn't one one recommendation for everyone other than you know try it yeah I think it's just gives us another tool in our tool box that's how I like to think about it it's not going to be for everyone but I think to recognize you don't need to do extreme Tim restricted eating just giving your body a 12-hour rest is good enough and we know my own research that most people will feel better doing that and it will improve improve your health as well and I think it's really important that people listen to their bodies like Tim said and make it work for yourself I know that I do like my glass of wine my bit of chocolate late in the evening so I know that actually for me it's better to start or have my breakfast a bit later in the day what is important to say is for people whom it doesn't really matter when they start and stop is the evidence does show actually finishing your last meal before 8:00 in the evening is probably the best way to do it but again it will differ for everyone and just listen to what works for you what about no wine after 9: Sarah you gonna do that I don't know if I'm going to take you off on that challenge too and this is how you know that they're all telling you the truth because even on the podcast Sarah wasn't commit to something that she wasn't sure she could follow through on I I'll try no wine after nine three nights a week how about that there you go can't say fair in that Tim and Sarah thank you so much I think that was a brilliant sort of Whistle Stop tour of the latest science in 2024 and I think we talked about uh seven strategies the first is that food is more than fuel so don't count calories or macronutrients it doesn't work food is so much more complicated than that don't choose restriction choose abundance choose what you can add into your meal secondly fat is not your enemy and we talked about how actually there's these amazing things like extra virgin olive oil and nuts and avocados that you can add into your diet thirdly eat more plants and plants are a lot more things than maybe uh we had imagined but you should be looking for 30 plants a week you should be eating the rainbow because there are 50,000 chemicals out there and you want to get as many of them as you can for your gut microbes number four was reduce Ultra processed foods this is something that many people will not even realize um that they are eating look at the back of the pack if this is something that doesn't exist in your kitchen this is probably an ultra processed food and even a small reduction s says can really help to improve your health number five reduce your blood sugar spikes this can have a big uh impact in the long term actually on leading to things like diabetes but also have a big impact on how you're feeling there's a big variation amongst people and so you can't really understand this without doing some sort of personalized test like Zoe but there is very clear advice you can do so basically you're looking for whole grain foods rather than very refined like white rice and bread and you're also saying that an apple is much better than an apple juice and these things will have a big impact number six nourish your gut microbiome with fermented foods Tim is adding fermented food into his diet every single day some of them are like weird sounding things like cfir and kombucha but actually you know cheese and yogurt are fermented foods that we've all been familiar with um and probably been eating since childhood and then number seven last but not least stick to an eating window those is fascinating new Sciences suggests that you know you at least for 12 hours you should be resting your gut and that can have a real impact on your health and that actually if you're one of the people who finds it easy to further restrict it that can have even more beneficial impact on your health and also potentially in terms of being able to manage your weight better spot on wonderful well we will explore more of those topics throughout the podcast this year and many new things that are happening in science so I hope that you enjoyed this I hope that you are now recovering from uh New Year's Eve and the the festive season and we hope that you will choose to uh to join us on this podcast throughout the year we will thank you hope you invite us back indeed we hope to be invited back you behaved yourself Tim you're allow back happy New Year everyone happy New Year happy 2024 thank you for joining me on Zoe science and nutrition today I hope that you'll try Sarah and Tim's strategies to eat a healthier diet in 2024 so you can improve your health this year now if you want to go one step further and get personalized advice and support on how you can eat the best foods for you to help you feel better now and in the years to come then you can learn more about Zoe and get 10% off your membership simply go to zoe.com podcast as always I'm your host Jonathan wolf Zoe science and nutrition is produced by yellow huin Martin Richard Willen and Tilly fford see you next [Music] time

Channel: ZOE

Views: 180,756

Keywords: zoe, zoe podcast, gut health, ultra processed foods, tim spector, jessie inchauspe, gut health diet, ultra processed foods documentary, ultra processed food, how to eat, 2024, calories, calorie counting

Id: xGY05t_sImc

Length: 74min 21sec (4461 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 01 2024