How to Deal with Gatekeepers as an Artist

what is the Hope for artists nobody's gonna buy  from you you are the worst salesman I have ever   seen he said you go sit down I will sell for  you we can't give this away for free I'll change   it I'll change it just pay me please Dark Art  World shine your art change the world [Music]   welcome back to another episode of the light  movement podcast this is the show where we   discuss as artists how you can be successful as an  artist without selling your soul to the Dark Art   elitist system and this is a very special episode  of the light movement podcast not only because I'm   joined by Ellie Milan the founder of Milan art  inspiration behind this new artist movement that   is dispelling the curse of a starving artist  but this is actually a very special episode of   the light movement podcast because we are actually  highlighting so that you can come out of the spell   of the curse of the starving artist and pursue  your passion for art this year so Ellie first   of all thanks for being here I guess I should  introduce myself too my name is Jake Dunn I'm   the marketing director of Milan art and the host  of the light movement podcast Ellie what is your   experience with these Gatekeepers what qualifies  you to even talk on the subject I have had some   experience uh with The Gatekeepers and that  is interesting because I I feel like it's a   fortress there's entire Kingdom of sort of this  old system Dark Art world and within that you   know big Kingdom there's there's fortresses and  there's buildings and constructs and different   rungs different rungs and and there's gates  to each of them and of course you know the   heights of it you know the the epicenter of it is  going to have the the largest Gates and I've only   experienced sort of the outer rungs of of that  Kingdom and I've Dibble dabbled within you know   small areas of sort of the the outer the outer  edges of of that art World years ago you know   selling art within it but I have not experienced  I've only kind of peered in and seen bits and   pieces of it and and of course you know read about  it and once you understand how it works you see   it happening all around you you can even see it in  Hollywood or you know it's not just paintings yeah   it's interconnected yeah so that's what I mean by  it's a kingdom and there's a there's a part of it   that's that's fine art and there's another part  that's music and there's another part in it but   the whole thing is you you know you're either in  or you're out and there there are you know Gates   and you gotta cross the gates and you have to do  what they want and so throughout your career what   are some specific intersections that you've had  with this Kingdom within the you know art fiefdom   I would say for me and and I think uh anybody  who's gone to art school that's watching this   is going to maybe not everyone but a lot of them  I think are gonna commiserate and and understand   and see and they've touched it too so I think it  starts with Academia it starts in the art schools   and the more art schooly it is the more high up  in the rungs of Art School the more you're going   to see it if it's like a community college or it's  you know sort of a state-run you know University   or something and they have a so-so art Department  maybe you're not going to see it as much but the   higher you go you know in art education in  that elitist system you're going to see it   so for example I went to Savannah College of Art  and Design and then I transferred to University   of Georgia and University of Georgia actually  has you know a pretty good art school it's well   attended and they have and is well funded and so  I saw a lot of elitism a lot of gatekeeping in   both places and in Savannah you know of course  this was when they were first getting started   you know 20 what 28 29 years no 30 years ago it  could have changed I don't know but at the time   the professors would tell you all the time you  know you have to be this way or you have to be   that way to make it you have to make this kind of  art you have to make that kind of art if it was   you know beautiful they would call it uh precious  pretty pictures and they would they would degrade   you if you wanted and then they would esteem  anybody that was making art that was extremely   intellectual referenced Duchamp in any way had  embedded all of this concept and aesthetic was   very low on on you know priority and it took a  lot of explaining to even begin to understand   it and you know I remember this one girl she was a  really good painter and this was a painting class   okay it was an oil painting class and all of us  are doing our oil paintings I can't remember who   it was but somebody we did the critique and they  were you know made fun of because it was it was a   pretty picture and I think it was like a landscape  and and it was really well done and it was it was   beautiful and it had a lot of voice to it and  mood and it was really really nice but it was a   pretty picture and it was just a landscape and so  they were sort of shunned and then this this girl   came and you know she had done paintings before  but this was you know maybe three quarters of the   way through the class kind of at the end of the  quarter and so she she gave up painting and was   basically saying painting is you know oil painting  is you know mundane and for the Bourgeois and the   and and she and then she made dolls these black  dolls from some material I can't even remember   what it was but the material that she used was  like meaningful anyway she made these weird   dolls and she made like a hundred of them and it  had something to do with like the labor of these   dolls and this material I couldn't even follow it  but she had this like whole story in my mind it's   it's like it's not art it's not sellable it's not  collectible it's not displayable it's it's nothing   that and it certainly didn't Inspire uplift or  beautify anything and so the definition of art   changed in art school and what they taught us and  what they told us art was was something different   than what I signed up for and I guess I signed up  for pretty pictures and what I was told was Art   was those dolls and they weren't even good-looking  and they weren't well done but she was rewarded   because she put oil painting down as you know  some old thing that was dead and nobody's going   to do it anymore it didn't have value anymore and  it was an oil painting class so anyway that's the   kind of stuff and I remember at the time my  my brother his wife was a sculptor she made   these beautiful sculptures you know dolphins and  women these beautiful like generic Beauty women I   was totally brainwashed by art school and I would  make fun of that art as like you know sellout art   until I came around and I realized and I thought  I thought well art school art is is the art and   anybody who's gone to Art School you've either  seen it and rejected it or you've bought into it   and I temporarily did buy into it until I got out  into the real world and I took my decorative art   job and I made pretty pictures for a living and  then I realized what's at the heart of Art and why   do we make it and who is it for and what does it  serve and I realized that whole thing is you know   a house of cards it's it's a mirage it's not even  real that that dark art construct it just like   gets everybody in this intellectual gymnastics  you know where you just like invent these meanings   upon meanings upon meanings into your talking  and nonsense that no nobody can even comprehend   anymore and it's all referencing this historical  thing thing and it's it's just like this trail of   intellectualism that doesn't ever or get anywhere  you know so that was I think my first taste of it foreign [Music] and it was the same thing in University of Georgia  mostly with the professors it was it's not like   systemic in the curriculum you learn oil painting  you learn drawing but what they're actually   teaching in there is something very different and  your advisors my my advisor was worthless he kept   advising me to do something else or if I really  wanted to be an artist then just commit to a life   of waitressing and told me over and over again I  couldn't make it and so you're you're brainwashed   into thinking that Art For Art's Sake you're going  to just make this nonsense art that's all about   art and something kind of weird and depressing and  difficult to understand and the more difficult it   is to understand the more smart you are you know  just these riddles I'm super thankful that I got   that show at that restaurant at Last Resort Grill  and I showed my art and it was seen and I got out   of that and I got into that decorative Art Market  because it was the exact opposite and it was what   they were making fun of you can hear my stories  or when I talk about this and I say that that you   know all my art school friends told me you know  we sold our soul to the couch art devil it was   constant I mean for at least six to eight months  there was this you know huge separation from our   College our University friendships because we  stayed in Athens where we graduated from and our   friends stayed so imagine you know if you stayed  at in in La you would still be friends with them   but then you took a job that those friends didn't  approve of and so there was a six-month separation   where we were ridiculed and made fun of you  know we would go to the parties we would go   to the different things and slowly slowly we were  completely shunned and because we had these jobs   as artists making a living selling our art but  because we were making pretty pictures we weren't   acceptable you know it was it was very weird  looking back it's very weird and all those other   people what were they doing well they were making  their weird art doing drugs and you know going to   concerts and living the college life even though  they had graduated or just stopped going they   would talk about their art but do very little of  it because they weren't giving assignments anymore   so they would just you know get stoned and talk  about it in their lofty philosophies but they   didn't actually really do it a lot this is  a super fascinating Trail and specifically   when you said that you discovered like the True  Heart of creating art was I want to Circle back   to that later but before we get to that could you  just shed light on some of the other Gatekeepers   or different entities that exist within that  Kingdom we got out let's say like I feel like   this imagine this this Kingdom you know in art  school we kind of butt up against it and then   we kind of left it and we're we're in this you  know sort of decorative art thing then we Rose   pretty high up in that decorative probably  to the top of where it goes you know the the   decorative art and then we were right back you  know at the edges of the art world again and so   I saw it I think we were involved in it without  knowing it while we were selling art because we   would sell our art to the dealers yeah and and  we had just like our one contact with the dealer   and and they were the one that was that were  Distributing it and we were you know the Darlings   of these dealers I mean we were one of the top  art dealers in the decorative Art Market you were   like chemists making uh you know chemicals and  you didn't know that the people were using it to   make drugs yeah something I I don't know we just  kept selling him you know painting after painting   after painting and he had thousands of them and  we knew he was you know pretty important and   you know a big dealer and you know had a you know  multi-multi-million Dollar business but we didn't   really understand what was happening because we  just painted in our Studios and off it went and so   and we get our checks and we were happy but then  when the economy crashed in 2008 he wasn't able   to buy art anymore by that October it started  to fall off in May and then by that October it   it dwindled down to nothing and he basically  said I can't buy art from you and I don't know   when I will and we said well we can't be you  know obviously exclusive anymore right we're   gonna go and make a living and I said the first  thing we're going to do is try to sell art to the   people who are buying it which are the people he  connected us with and and he's like good luck dude   do what you got to do and we decided we were  going to go to New York art expo and that was   at the time now it's maybe less important but at  the time in the decorative Art Market and the more   Commercial Art Market and the market where the  dealers build people so I call it the decorative   Art Market and that was that was big there but  it's also like I don't want to name names but   you can kind of figure it out looking at magazines  or whatever it's it's these artists that that are   sort of one-trick ponies that just make the same  art over and over and over and over and over again   it's heavily commercialized and they have a dealer  and they have like you know the father of movement   or something they have some some name they're  known for right and so our art expo's full of   those people we decided not knowing anything  that was going on we decided we're gonna go   to New York art expo and we're just gonna sell  our own artwork there as artists you know and   um you had your choice of doing the solo which is  where all the artists went or you could go as a   as a dealer or a gallery and dumb us we thought  that's what we wanted to do because you know we   had the money for it so we were we were going to  pay for the more expensive space have a really   night we bought a double booth and we're gonna  sell all this art in New York art expo because   we were the top sellers for this dealer three  years in a row and so we thought it'll be a piece   of cake we'll sell so much art we'll probably just  sell all this art at Expo and the rest of the year   we can take off you know and travel or something I  don't know we had crazy ideas so we get ready for   that and um we naively dumbly we we call our deal  the dealer that you know we weren't working with   anymore uh because of the economy and we said well  we've decided we're going to do art expo this is   spring of 2009 and we just wanted to let you know  that we're going to be there he could have said   don't do it I'll Eat You Alive don't do it save  yourself just don't go trust me and then it's our   prerogative if we defied him or not right but he  didn't he said all right well good luck that's it   that's all he said and I thought well he's a nice  guy he's wishing us good luck so we got everything   ready made a huge investment we go to New York  we set up make our booth and the first day   all these while I'm setting up all these galleries  are coming in all these dealers and because the   first few days it's open to insiders not not  Outsiders yeah and I didn't know this inside   outside at the time I'm just naive there I don't  know anything and so these people are coming up   and they're like oh I can't believe you're here  we've been selling your work for years oh wow   it's so great to meet you you're you're gonna do  so well you're gonna do amazing oh this is great   beautiful stuff okay I'm coming back and it was  just one after the other and I was adding it all   up I mean we're talking like at least 30 different  people from 30 different companies saying they're   going to come back be ready I'm gonna buy a bunch  and I was just like oh my gosh I don't even know   if I have enough inventory this is incredible the  next day the first day we're there I'm waiting for   the throngs of people to come and and you know  buyer work and there's nobody coming you know   and then it's noon and then it's one o'clock and  it's two o'clock and this is going to end at five   and I'm like where are all the people that said  they were going to come and I looked down the   hall and this one lady that I really connected  with on setup and she said she was coming back   buying all kinds of things in fact she was that's  another gatekeeper this lady this person owns the   largest dealer art dealer in the UK she's like a  mega dealer and and then she distributes the art   to all the the gallery chains in the UK so it  is impossible to work with the gallery a good   Gallery a retail Gallery that's actually selling  art in the UK I mean this was at least true   25 no because I've worked to them recently like  I would say up to 10 years ago okay so if it's   changed in the last 10 years that's possible but  anyway you couldn't you can't go around these   people it is impossible she was a gatekeeper and  I didn't know it and so but we really hit it off   and I really liked her and she liked me and she  was she she said that she sold more of my art than   any other person that our our dealer had worked  with so it was a very exciting contact and so I   see her coming down the aisle and all of a sudden  she looks and she's like and then she spins on her   Wheels heels and and like starts walking away so  I chase her down and I'm like hey I'm like level   with me what is going on because all these people  came by yesterday and they were like I'm coming   back whatever and nobody has come anywhere near my  booth and I saw you you know you you're avoiding   me so what what is going on and she's like I can't  buy art from you I can't talk to you I can't buy   art from you and she and she leaves and I'm like  okay something is up so I'm like I'm gonna go   find our dealer and I'm gonna have it out with  him actually you might be surprised but I I was   way more volatile and reactive back then when  I was younger and I was shy but if I got angry   that was it I would I would just let you have  it and so I was going to let him have it so I   was I was walking to his big I mean he didn't even  have a booth he had an entire corner of the Javits   Javits Center so I go to his area and he's got  The Gatekeepers out front of his gate and they're   like I don't know gargoyles yeah the Gargoyles  yeah yeah and they're they're like snarling and   ready and they recognize me and they're like  immediately come up and they're and they're   like yes what do you want and and I was like I'm  looking for let's just go on Bob Bob I'm looking   for Bob and and they're like oh well he's not  here but I'll tell him you were looking for him   so I start to leave and then I recognized  a gallery that had come the day before from   from Minnesota and really nice guy and so I I go  up to him and I was like hey I said have you has   um Bob talked to you about you know not buying  from me has he told you that you can't buy from   me he goes yeah he goes look nobody's gonna buy  from you you've been completely blacklisted he's   gone around to every single person he's ever  sold your artwork to and has threatened if   they even talked to you that you'll uh that  he'll never do business with them again wow   and so I was like okay I'm done like I just spent  my entire life savings to be here took this huge   risk and I'm blacklisted like nobody's gonna buy  anything and they didn't we didn't sell anything   that day The Insider day The Insider two days so  it's the end of The Insider day and it's about to   be so there's two days where it's it's inside and  then it's two days where it's open to the public   and you're hoping that you would sell all of your  inventory I was just hoping outside at first oh   yeah that was why you go because because you know  open to the public it's you sell retail and it's   like it's Hit or Miss Random yeah more random  so we were going to make connections ongoing   connections it's the end of that first day and  and I I come back or a second day I come back   and I'm telling you know the the where the people  that were there working with me and I'm like I'm   like look what happened oh my gosh I don't know  what I'm gonna do and right then Bob comes comes   walking down sees me start smirking walks up  to me and he says hmm well congratulations   I see you've made it here very good yeah  beautiful work you guys have done well yeah   um you have you have you know good amount of work  here he's like I really hope you sold at least 70   percent I really hope you did well today because  you know the first two days are like it that's   that's where you make all your money he's like  the public days nobody buys anything it's just   all lookie-loos so I really hope you've done well  and I was like yeah and I was like yeah we've sold   a lot it's been great and we hadn't sold one thing  yeah and he he said I'm sure yeah and he knew and   he just turned and left and I had a table with the  paper pieces on it and a black tablecloth and I   literally won't fell to the ground went under the  table and just like had one of those Silent Cries   where you just scream into your hands but make  no sound and I was just shaking with rage and uh   just cried my guts out and then I don't know  when I finally pulled it together it came out   from the table and I'm like okay you know and uh  so then when went back to the hotel and you know   got some pep talks and we were like okay we're  just gonna do it we're gonna sell to the public   and that's kind of a whole nother story but it  has nothing to do with Gatekeepers so well I'm   sure the people watching are curious like is there  a happy ending yeah there's a heavy ending so okay   well that that night I was pretty much thinking  I've got to make all this money back because it   was a fortune to to at least at the time for me  like what what what are we talking about well okay   it was this is after several months of not making  any money and and preparing for this and building   inventory and so you not counting that investment  not counting the investment of of the material and   and the time putting into it and not making money  those months right just just the cash investment   for the booth alone it was like sixteen thousand  wow and then that's not including airfare airfare   hotel and transporting the art there transporting  the art there back you had to pay yeah and you   had to pay the not the mafia what do you call  them the uh Keepers the the other Gatekeepers   um there's Union the unions we weren't allowed to  bring in our own artwork there was a very special   way you had to you had to follow all the rules to  get the artwork there and each each step of the   way it cost you money and so it was cook you with  the booth and then they're like and you're gonna   have to stay in this specific Hotel you're gonna  have to use these taxis I'm just kidding yeah kind   of you're gonna have to buy this food you're  gonna have to drink these wear these clothes   and buy our clothes the ham the ham sandwiches uh  the Javis Javits Center were twenty seven dollars   20 years ago or whenever it was 27 I was like for  a sandwich yeah a ham sandwich really good though   no it was terrible and that's just like robbery  okay so but the happy ended yeah so okay the so   the next day it's it's gonna get bad before  it gets better but to make things worse this   is March but they were predicting the Storm of  the Century for that Sunday so this is Saturday   and it's supposed the show's supposed to go on  Sunday as well and you only have from ten to   five so it's not like all day all night you know  Sunday was supposed to be when the blizzard was   hitting and so nobody was expected Sunday and they  weren't even sure if they were going to be open   so everything had to happen Saturday so here  I am Saturday and at first I'm all pumped up   and I'm like okay I'm gonna do this we're gonna  we're gonna sell a bunch of Art and at least make   my money back at least be able to you know not  have to go get a job or something and uh so you   know we're trying people are coming in they love  the work we're talking they'd say they would come   back then they wouldn't come back I just couldn't  get a sale and I had no experience selling art I   just realized oh man I blew it I I should have  had a salesperson in here and I don't know how   to convert the sale now it's supposed to close at  five and it's about 3 30 and I still haven't made   a sale I'm sinking and I'm crushed and I'm just  dying and I'm in this kind of panic I went for a   walk and I was I was just praying and I was just  ah just desperate and literally begging God for   a miracle and and I was just thinking if I I if I  lose all this money I can't recover from this I'm   I I'll have to get a job John will have to get  a job you know what if what if we're not going   to be artists anymore what if this is it and so  I came back and it was about I don't know quarter   to four something like that and I had about an  hour left you know to sell some people came in   and I thought I had you know they were gonna buy  something and got really close they were thinking   about it and they left and they walked out and I  was so frustrated so meanwhile my neighbor across   the way it was this Gallery owner from and he  wasn't on the inside he was an outsider like me   and he had watched everything that had gone down  and what I had gone through and he didn't like   it and he felt really bad for me and his name was  Heim and which means life and a really sweet guy   and he he owned a gallery in Haifa and he um he  was just there selling art and he sold a ton of   art finally he came over to my booth after he  saw that last group go it's about four o'clock   and he goes I can't take it anymore I can't watch  this you are the worst salesman I have ever seen   he said you go sit down I will sell for you  and so I was like okay and so I just got in   my corner and uh I see him you know talking  with people and he's and he comes over to me   and he goes this P he says quietly to me so this  piece here uh you're asking five thousand will   you take four thousand five hundred I'm like yeah  yeah yeah and so he goes back to them and I see   him talking and then he comes back to um the the  girl helping me gives a credit card and he goes   okay ring them up and he tells me he looks at me  and he goes you put bubble wrap and I'm like okay   so I start bubble wrapping I was just  concentrating on bubble wrapping but then by   the time I looked up from my bubble wrap of my one  piece I there was three more big canvases lined up   uh he had sold and I I was bubble wrapping bubble  wrapping and then he sold more and then he set a   set of nine pieces it was it was like a set anyway  for the next hour he sold art non-stop wow and I   don't know how much pieces it was and how much  I bubble wrapped some of it was paper some of   it was canvas and you know one girl was just  running credit card and I was bubble wrapping   and packaging and I was so full of every emotion  you could imagine and then in the end uh that day   we calculated it out and you know we we had broken  even wow we we didn't make one penny but we didn't   lose one penny wow and I went home or went to the  hotel after that I mean of course I gave Heim the   biggest hug you ever saw and I could feel this  Rush of emotion just like I was holding it in like   when you see one of those movies that you want to  burst you just want to cry and cry and cry but you   can't you you're holding it in because you don't  want to make a scene it was like that and I was   holding it in holding it in the whole bus ride to  the hotel I couldn't talk because if I talked to   because I had my mom and this other girl helping  me and if I talked it would all flood so I just   I didn't say anything I'm just sitting there just  trying to keep it all in and as soon as I went in   the hotel room I just flung myself on the bed  and I just just bawled my eyes out it was just   so grateful I had my life back I had you know I I  could be an artist and I could I could survive it   and the next day the blizzard did come but there  was some faithful people that came through it was   it was very few people and my mom actually sold  three paintings to one guy and that those three   paintings were our prophet wow so that was on  Sunday that was the only sales we made I didn't   make one sale my mom sold those three and she  was so proud of herself because she was listening   to Heim the whole time you know and how he was  doing it and she copied him and she did it she   sold three paintings and I think it came to like  nine thousand or six thousand six or nine thousand   so our profit for that whole time was about six or  nine thousand dollars something like that you know   the moral of the story is God came through and I  saw the underbelly of the art world and I saw how   you had these Kings and these rulers and everybody  fell in line with them they did exactly what they   were told and they were minions they didn't think  for themselves they wouldn't move outside of it   there was a lot of fear a lot of money you know  people not wanting to lose out you had to play   the game and you had to do what they want and  then there's so much more you know you you have   to paint certain subjects you have to represent  yourself in a certain way if you get really far   in I mean we saw this a bit with Dimitri you you  you have to Brand yourself a certain way you have   to act a certain way dress a certain way be a  certain way and it all starts to not you can't be   a real person you can't be yourself and you're not  free after New York I I think of it as is like you   know Egypt you know and being being enslaved and  coming out of it was like crossing the Red Sea and   you know looking back I could see them you know  coming after me but it's like I'm I'm done seal   the the the the sea closed up and I'm on the other  side and I'm not going back I stayed out of it   ever since and worked with galleries that  were just Mom and Pop solid galleries we   we sort of touched the fringes again with Dimitra  unknowingly I didn't I didn't know it but once we   started to smell it and see what it was like we  didn't we didn't go there oh man I have so many   questions you know I've heard that story before  and I said this while we were on break but that   was definitely the most powerful version of the  story that I've heard so far um or explanation   of the story and you know if you don't already  despise The Gatekeepers then you probably do now   or at least you have a you know for those people  who are watching the an understanding of the dark   power that they hold within those communities at  a certain threshold and it's pretty evident that   incredibly corrupt and it's not good for such  a few amount of people to hold so much power   and influence over something as precious as art  and you know because as we've discussed in many   different podcasts you know art has such a mandate  to influence culture and I'm just so glad that   there is this opportunity for artists to make it  outside of that system so I'd love for you now to   talk a little bit more about how did you make it  as an artist outside of that system you said that   you worked with Mom and Pop Gallery system or  galleries and you know and then deontra touched   the fringes of that with the publisher what is  the Hope for artists nowadays I think there's   a lot of Hope for artists and how we've made  it is working either directly with collectors   or working directly with retailers or galleries  that aren't involved in that system and you can   kind of see basically if if we can get into one of  those galleries they're not one of those galleries   that's in that system because that system will  usually like for example with Dimitra the gallery   chain that she worked with for an individual to  just contact that Gallery chain they're not gonna   work with them they're going to only really work  with the agents and the Publishers that handle   the artist and so handlers the handlers so if  you contact a gallery straight up as an artist   and they want to work with you they're not one  of those they're not in that Kingdom if you are   working with an agent a publisher a Handler that  you're in that's that's that's that's the road   in I think you can work with a dealer in the  decorative market like we did and just be just   send in the artwork and your art will get all over  the place but you'll never really be able to work   with those people because they will only work with  the dealer and so it's a good way to get your name   out there but then if you try to circumvent and  and just work within those markets ever you can't   it's not possible we were a really top seller with  that that Gallery system dealer in the UK it was   like another five or eight years I can't remember  exactly maybe five years that we we weren't able   to work with them but then they approached us and  they said hey you know we we'd like to sell your   work and I was like well what about Bob his name's  not Bob but yeah yeah yeah what about Bob and and   he's like oh yeah don't worry about Bob so I think  something happened in the relationship where they   got some leverage and they weren't it was fine so  we just didn't ask him so we wanted you know to   work with them and and be you know have our art in  the galleries in the UK and all that and I didn't   quite think that they were I always Associated  a guy like Bob is as sort of The Insider or   the the underbelly you know of that system but I  thought like the the Galleries and stuff they're   just they're like me they're just you know hoping  to make some money and you know make a living and   utilizing the dealer we sent them tons and tons  of work and they were selling it until we started   working with dimitra's Publisher and then we had  to hand over that dealer to that publisher and it   just so happened that dimitro's publisher wanted  to work with that dealer and they were using us   to get in with that dealer and as soon as I mean  we were just naive and dumb about it so as soon   as we sort of said oh hey we're working with this  publisher now now you guys can work together then   they dropped us like a hop they wanted nothing to  do with us the publisher or the dealer no the the   dealer in the UK wanted so the dealer was trying  to get in with the publisher no the publisher was   trying to get in with that dealer oh I gotcha but  then as soon as and the publisher said if we're   going to work with you you can't work with them  we will work with them oh because the the D the   dealer didn't want to work with the publisher they  wanted to work with you guys directly yeah gotcha   gotcha and then they they just like I don't know  they just and they didn't really communicate and   we didn't know and and we weren't able to really  communicate with them they were communicating   with the publisher we weren't hearing the right  story it was a bit of a mess but anyway so like   now they probably wouldn't want to ever deal with  this it burned a bridge it sounds like you know   just a Common Thread within this elitist system  there's just a massive amount of politics like I   feel like that's like if you it just seems like  there there's so much political maneuvering that   you have to do in order to fit within the system  and they don't really tell you what the game is   no so you have to find out what the game is when  you blow it and when you you step on the landmine   you know I don't know it's it's just a it's just  a completely different system and and you know   now that you know you just it's just so sweet and  innocent and perfect to just like build your brand   it's all authentic you make your art that you care  about you have your message you have your story   you you make what you want to make you know it's  it's inspiring it's beautiful it's uplifting you   put it out there you make your content you have  your videos you share your process you tell your   story you do your podcast you have your website  you just you you do do your thing your fans are   attracted to your message and what you stand for  and and what you believe in and and they rally   with you and they're hard and your art and and  then they want they want to buy the prints and   then they want you know and they the if you make  a t-shirt they'll want that and and it's just so   innocent and beautiful and your art really means  something to them and they get the clear message   and it's not being filtered through some dealer  who's making something up and painting you as   somebody you're not even that person and just to  sell some story or or some facade or something   I think that that that system is crumbling and  they can't compete they can't compete with the   true authentic marketing story you know that that  artists are doing and with through social media   and their own websites and and all these tools we  have to communicate and they can't compete and so   a lot of dealers have gone out of business a lot  of galleries have gone out of business you know I   just read that Gallery sales in in 2022 fell by  three percent but conversely online sales have   risen 10.4 since 2019. so in the last three years  four years three to four years online sales have   risen by 10 more than 10 percent yeah and we're  talking you know billions it's not like when a 10   increase yeah yeah a factor of you know multiple  billions of dollars and a three percent decrease   is likewise you know Millions um and that online  figure is way off yeah exactly because how do they   even track how are they track all those Instagram  sales yeah I mean some people say that Instagram's   the biggest art dealer on planet Earth right now  yeah and I believe it yeah it sounds like the   anyone who is a gatekeeper basically is well  multiple so many different observations as a   result of this and I encourage those of you who  are watching to share your insights as a result of   this as well in the comments below you know and if  you're enjoying this please like And subscribe so   that we know if you're you know this is something  that resonates with you so we know what type of   content to make in the future for you so but one  key takeaway I'm I'm getting is that in the past   if you wanted to actually scale in our business  sounds like anyone could have made it in the past   or maybe not anyone but you could make it make  do you could just get by as an artist in the past   working with collector or working with Galleries  and selling directly you know just through   galleries in the gallery system there was no real  direct to collector model in the past that any   artist could tap into and from what I'm hearing  you say that is what this new opportunity is for   artists is the opportunity to connect directly  with the collector through means of social media   Etsy Shopify you know their own website and yes  and and Jake here's the thing this is why I'm   so excited about what we're doing in October about  the Milan art experience and Shifting the identity   of the artist because that's where it starts  it's all within your identity when I was going   through this and when I got sucked into Egypt  it was because I had that poverty mindset and   that starving artist mindset where I was looking  for somebody to take care of me I was looking for   Egypt to give me shade I was looking for a quick  catapult in and and so I was susceptible you know   and and so I I got sucked in because I didn't feel  confident or able to you know run my own business   represent myself and do all the things and it felt  daunting to me so I was just looking for a dealer   to come along and be like hey yeah we'll see throw  you twenty percent of the crumbs and you know   you just paint away in your studio and we'll take  care of everything and it's like that sounded good   to me and you know they treat you so bad that's  that's the thing I didn't I didn't talk about John   and I used to um equate it with like um spousal  abuse you know because you you would be mentally   abused you know they would really talk down to  you talk down about your work accuse you of things   like even just to make you desperate hold your  checks like our dealer used to he had plenty of   money we were supposed to we would invoice but  we didn't we weren't in a position to say hey   look if you're not going to pay your invoices on  time we'll go find another dealer yeah because of   my mindset now I would do that in a heartbeat but  at the time I was like oh I hope you'll still work   with me you know and and the more he abused us or  or tortured us or you know withheld money or lie   or he would say things like yeah you know um you  guys have uh been at the top for a while but I got   some other artists that are looking pretty good  and they might take your spot and I don't know I   don't know what you do you got four kids you know  and and like just instill this fear that you know   we had to perform and you know I got other artists  that uh actually paint faster than you guys   um and they're they're pretty good their skills  might even be better you know and just constantly   making you feel insecure making you feel like  you're not enough making you feel like one false   move you don't behave if you just don't behave  right out you go and then you don't eat and you   need them if if you don't have them you won't  eat and I mean we were sucked into that trap for   a long time and that's why that that time in New  York was so life-changing for me and I felt like   I just got out of Egypt I crossed the Red Sea and  I was I was I was free I was enslaved into that   system and so beaten down by it you wouldn't dare  challenge you wouldn't dare question you know and   and it wasn't just Bob it was you know almost  everybody I dealt with the he wasn't the only   dealer I ever dealt with there was they were all  kind of like that once I understood what I had in   my hands and and what art actually was and what it  does for people and what I could do with it then I   realized wow like I I you know people to sell are  dealers whatever they're they're anybody anybody   can do that but not anybody commits their life to  a craft overcomes all these obstacles perseveres   makes something beautiful with their skills  with their imagination puts that heart into   it you know where you authentically you have this  story and you have this vision and and all of that   comes together with the colors and the materials  and your skills and everything and you create a   series of pieces and you put it out there and  you document it and you put it on social media   and you work at it and you work at it and you work  at it not everybody does that that's rare and you   need to be paid for what's rare you need to you  you have value for for that you know and and so   I think artists really have to understand who they  are what is their position they're The Visionaries   they're the leaders and they should not be in this  place like I was of groveling or feeling desperate   or feeling like you know um I I better be nice  that I don't want to get them mad they might   not pay me either NC artists with commissions  you see these collectors sometimes they're like   um I don't know if I like that green you know and  and and you got these artists are like oh oh I'll   change it I'll change it just pay me please you  know it's like we can't we got to get out of that   we can't have that mindset and that identity you  know I mean you want to make the customer happy   and within reason you can tweak things I'm not  saying be difficult but if somebody's sort of   lording things over you or trying to control you  in any way like that you know you don't need that   yeah it's such a good lesson about diversification  and not just you know it like not letting any one   entity not just a person but any entity hold that  power over you and even social media platforms too   I mean that's why you want to make sure sure  you build an email list as well and have your   own website where you have some sort of control  or ownership over the traffic Etsy could change   the rules at any point exactly yeah and even  then it's good to have the website build skills   because who knows Shopify could like completely  crash I don't think it's likely but they could   go bankrupt one day and then you know if you had  someone else build your Shopify website then you   got to pay someone else to build your website on  Wix or you know build your website on some other   platform and you know it's just you don't want  to have all of your eggs in one basket yeah now   now that's not saying you can't choose a platform  and build a strategy based off of that platform or   Avenue right you want multiple streams of income  exactly you want multiple multiple Avenues to to   get your art out where out there and that's just  smart anyway you're going to sell a lot more art   doing that yeah there's different marketplaces  to tap into and you know that's one of the things   that's so powerful about the master program is  it teaches people how to tap into these different   markets and the different mindsets to have when  going into them and how to utilize all the tools   that are available whether it's licensing or or  even galleries too you know I mean you've had so   many bad experiences with galleries like what  a great experience chances though too yeah so   what are what are your thoughts on working with  galleries like what is uh I mean this might be   you know a different conversation but like what is  something you look for in a gallery that you like   to work with the tell-all is if they'll if they um  if they would work with an artist individually if   they are willing to work one-on-one with an artist  they're not in that system they might be jerks you   know they might not be fun to work with they could  be great you know I've I've worked with galleries   most of the galleries where it was one-on-one and  we built relationships were very rewarding we had   great friendships and they were kind they were  they were good they weren't they weren't like   yeah they weren't abusive so I've had a lot  of fantastic relationships with Galleries and   what we teach in the Mastery Program is to contact  once you have all your ducks in a row and you're   prepared in fact I'm writing right now a whole  book on you know the whole Gallery process but   it's it's a numbers game and you just want to  contact once you're fully prepared and ready and   and you know presentable then you want to submit  to like a hundred Galleries and you're probably   looking at you know at least 90 no's but those 10  maybes will be at least two to three yeses that   you actually want to work with and and then there  you go and by the time you've gone through that   process and you've had all these conversations  I mean it's like dating you check each other out   they're vetting you you're vetting them and by  the time you get to an agreement like okay let's   let's work together you're you're already friends  at that point well actually by the time people   listen to this I feel like your book it might not  be released but there's the opportunity if you're   watching and you are interested in learning  about working with galleries Ellie is in that   sharing her process of writing this book through a  series of newsletters and if you're interested in   kind of getting a behind the scenes scoop of this  newsletter or of this book as it's being written   as it's being created I mean I've seen the first  you know 20 Pages or so and it's absolutely when   I read it I was like we can't give this away for  free but Ellie insisted so if you want a behind   the scenes look into that that process of what  it takes to get into a gallery what galleries you   want to work with the different mindsets that you  need to have if you want to actually be successful   then click the link in the description to sign  up for that newsletter it's completely free we'll   just send you um an email the new like chapters  or the new sections yeah exactly so definitely   definitely will want to sign up if you've watched  this far then you're probably the perfect person   to read that so you mentioned when you were coming  out of that system of Academia and you realized   what the definition of art is or not necessarily  the definition but the True Heart behind art is so   I'd love for you to just share what your thoughts  are on that on that subject in comparison or maybe   contrast to this Dark Art in the dark art system  you know everybody has their own definition for r   yeah and I think you know probably most of them  are valid one definition that I like I didn't come   up with it I just read it and when I read it I  was like that is it Schumann a composer classical   composer but in the more modern times I think  he was a contemporary with Kandinsky and he said   the to shine the light on the human heart is the  profession of the artist it doesn't necessarily   explain all that art is but it does explain and  there's other people that shine light on people's   hearts but every artist shines light on people's  heart you know with their art and so I I just   love that and that is not at all what was being  told to us in art school you know it was like   Twisted into this other thing you know  like the black dolls when I went into the   decorative market and it was the exact opposite  and it was just a whole world of pretty pictures   and of course at first I was just like whatever  I'm getting paid to make pretty pictures it's like   I'm coloring for a living whatever I'll make my  real art on the side and so you know I did that   for a while and I was kind of split and I would  make pretty pictures all day and then I'd make   my real art pretty pictures real art and after  a while they just merged into the same thing but   while I was making those pretty pictures and I saw  there was an entire Market set up for it and and   people would come and and literally purchase this  art to beautify a room creating this environment   with the couch with the chair with the carpets  with the lighting you know the art niches all   that to to showcase the art you know the art was  like the statement in the room that elevated the   room and and told anybody that came into the room  like this is a great place there's Fine Art on the   wall you know there's original art on the wall  it's not a print from Ikea I mean there's no   nothing wrong with that but you know what I'm  saying it's like there's this is an original   painting on the wall and I just thought that's it  that's that's really what every artist wants they   artists don't want the black dolls they don't  want you know this niche market of five people   in Earth that can comprehend what they're making  that's not what artists want they want they want   to be loved by all right they want their art to  really be appreciated and loved and celebrated and   on the walls and anybody that comes over is like  wow what a beautiful painting I love that right   that touches me that that grips my heart that can  happen through pretty pictures you're more likely   to grip somebody's heart through Beauty than you  ever will through a black doll you know yeah 100   they want they want to connect like it's all about  connection and like you said to shine light on the   human heart that is the essence of connection and  here's the thing about beauty you could show a   three-year-old a three-year-old a two-year-old  you could show show them a ratty black doll or   you could show them you know a beautiful bouquet  of flowers or something that's beautiful and they   will know the difference yeah we're somehow we  know what beauty is same with sounds too yeah yeah   yeah like that's true in kids with sounds like I  even had that experience with my younger brother   like I was playing around with music production  and showed him was going through all the different   sounds and he was like oh no no no and then he  would be like oh that's good you know and he's   like three or four years old yeah you know this  doesn't sound good exactly yeah it's all about   Shining Light On The Human Condition wait what is  the exact quote human heart on the human heart so   if you want to shine your art change the world  then you know like And subscribe to this channel   we will be posting a lot more videos like this  and we've actually created a ton more podcasts   just like this for you to listen to that will  hopefully inspire you and if you felt the urge   like you just needed to paint or you just want  to get into this and and be a part of this art   community this new movement this new opportunity  for artists to break out of the curse of Starving   Artists and into the new Creator economy of  prosperity then join art social it's an amazing   community of artists that's the name of this you  know YouTube channel but we actually have a whole   social media platform for artists it's called art  social you can just go to artsocial.com and join   these amazing artists and we host free workshops  all the time Ellie teaches free workshops my wife   demetric she teaches free workshops and uh if  you haven't already then go hit that link in the   description join Ellie's newsletter and learn how  you can get your art into those good Galleries and   not the bad ones thanks for watching this I hope  you enjoyed and check out this next video [Music]

Channel: Milan Art

Views: 38,907

Keywords: concept art, dimitra milan, milan art institute, art podcast, contemporary art, art, art skills, artists, artist, art school, art education, classical art, composition, texture, professional artist, professional artists, create drawings, learn art, art program, art haul, watercolor, watercolour, acrylic, oil paint, oil painting, how to paint, how to draw, learn painting, best art skills, artist mentor, art mentors, art mentor, pro artist, pro artists, learn to draw, art blog

Id: SWYg5aZYB5c

Length: 54min 20sec (3260 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 29 2023