How to be an Antiracist

[Music] um let me read off a list of excellent credentials that Abram has uh I should say Dr ibram kindy so my mistake for under Boston you but uh best-selling uh author New York Times best-selling author founder of the anti-racist research and policy Center at American University he won the national book award in 2016. youngest person to do so correct yes you cannot like look be tired of being humble okay all right go ahead and claim that um for his book stamp from the beginning the definitive history of racist ideas in America he also has a new book which is coming out in August aptly named after this panel um called how to be an anti-racist uh which you can pre-order uh right now so be sure to do that on Amazon Apple I looked all this up you know I gotta plug this book How To Be anti-racist by Dr Kennedy so let's give him a warm welcome let's start there explain the concept of being an anti-racist so so I think first and foremost we've been led to believe that the sort of contrast is between racist and not racist I'm sure you've heard someone say I'm not racist anybody heard that and and so when someone says to me I'm not racist I typically respond well what is it not racist like what does it mean to be not racist as opposed to racist and typically people have never actually thought about that question and it's also the case that typically people cannot even Define racist um and typically the concept of not racism is really an act of denial and um and so if the contrast from racist is not not racist does that make sense it it is it is it is anti-racist and so really when we sort of understand the contrast and I'm speaking really about the contrast because it's hard to understand what it means to be anti-racist without understanding what it means to be racist but uh you know anti-racist ideas suggest that the racial groups are equals racist ideas suggest that certain racial groups are superior or inferior or better or worse than others racist policies uh yield racial inequity um anti-racist policies yield racial equity um racist people are are people who are expressing racist ideas or are supporting racist policies with their action or even inaction and I say inaction because if you do nothing in the face of of racist policies then essentially since racist policies are more or less the norm you're maintaining that Norm of racism while to be anti-racist is is one who is expressing anti-racist ideas or supporting anti-racist policies with their actions can you give an example of an anti-racist policy or policies sure we've been talking about one over the last few weeks reparations you know when you ask me about reparations uh you know I say how do you eliminate or even begin to eliminate the wealth Gap in this country without reparations and uh how do you uh eliminate a wealth Gap that's actually growing according to projections uh or even something like health care for all or even Obamacare which significantly increased the number of latinx and African-Americans who had health insurance these are policies that reduced racial inequities um you know most of us and you've talked about this before in previous talks you've given we have sort of been taught that you know the root of racism is ignorance and hate but you have a much different definition or way of looking at racism um so what is the root cause of racism um in your mind sure so in in writing um stamp from beginning which was a history of racist ideas I essentially wanted to answer that question because I think we've been taught this sort of causal relationship that the sort of core that the Cradle is ignorance and hate in other words ignorant and hateful people are the people who have produced racist ideas they they produce racist ideas because of their ignorance and hate and and then we've been taught that people who have these racist ideas are the people who've instituted racist policies from slave holding to Jim crowing to mass deporting and incarcerating and we think it's because of their racist ideas that they are instituting and defending and supporting these policies does that sound familiar to anyone and and so I went into basically in writing this history of racist ideas I wanted to figure out okay is that true are the people who have produced and I say produced as opposed to consumed for a very specific reason right the people who produced these racist ideas did they produce them because of their ignorance and and hate and and and in researching this history and in contextualizing the emergence of different racist ideas over the course of of American History I found that the producers were actually a who's who of American Minds that these are some of the most brilliant I mean in terms of the way they've been categorized uh Americans in history and and even some of these people uh according to them privately love black people or at least that's what they said uh based on their relationships with black people um I'm not I don't want to name names but I think y'all know what I'm talking about um and and so what I found actually was that instead of racist ideas leading to racist policies I actually found racist policies leading to racist ideas in other words as many of you know when when you want to Institute a racist policy you typically have to make a case for that racist policy right and that case for racist policies is typically something to demean a particular racial group when people resist your racist policy you typically have to defend that resistance with racist ideas of course black people are going to be 40 of the incarcerated population in this country uh even though they only make up 13 of the national population because they're so criminal like that's a defense of the racist policies that led to the mass incarceration and so I actually found racist policies leading to racist ideas and I actually found this sort of core or cradle as good old self-interest that that people have instituted racist policies because it made them money because it got them elected or kept them elected because it allowed them to excel in their professions or it allowed them to maintain their cultural or professional life and then they produce used these ideas to defend those policies to justify those policies and then Americans Mass consume those ideas they started believing that that latinx immigrants were rapists and and animals and then that led them to become ignorant and hateful um what you were discussing earlier I often refer to it as the Sal's Pizzeria Theory uh if any of you have seen do the right thing Spike Lee asked John Turturro how come you don't like black people and you call us you know and you have all these black people here on your wall like there's a difference between how you individually may feel about a black person because I always say the easiest thing in the world is to like a really cool famous black person it's really easy it's a whole different thing when you have to embrace us all as a group right because there's no skin in the game um so you mentioned you just hit on something about self-interest leading to sort of racist policy um but what you've also discovered in your research is that a lot of the the racist progress always follows the racial progress right and I was reading today about a poll that was done that was in The Washington Post where it said uh and this is again not me picking on a particular party but this was how the research was defined there are 47 of Republicans think it's okay to refuse service to someone based on their race religion or sexual orientation um that number has doubled since 2014 the last time they took this poll and it's also seeing increasing numbers among Democrats and among Independents those numbers are 18 and 24 respectfully so so I ask you why does that why is that the case how do we go from say this racial Nirvana people were in after electing Barack Obama to what we have now why is that progress often followed by even deeper and more defined and Starker racism so I think that that's actually a question I was sort of wrestling with in in writing stamp from the beginning because I think our generation for instance um has dealt with mass incarceration has dealt with a series of different sort of issues that our parents generation did not deal with at the same time our parents generation was saying to us well you had you got it better than we do and we were like well and so it's been this constant generational conflict to a certain extent within the black community in which younger people are saying it's worse or it's still bad or it's worse than ever and and older people are saying oh no it's it it's there's no way it's it's worse than it was when I was coming up in in Jim Crow and and in writing this history of racist ideas I had to write a history of Black America and so I actually found that both positions were correct that it is in fact the case that we've had racial progress but it's simultaneously the case that we've had racist progress and and to your question how that happens is when anti-racist um activists and and Americans have essentially been able to break down barriers um barriers of policies that benefited people um and of course excluded other people those who benefited from those barriers did not just like fly home to their um to their states or to their golf courses in Palm Beach not to pick on a particular party either um and have a more sophisticated ways to exclude people to suppress people to oppress people and I think we've seen that for instance with with with the ways in which voter suppression over the last 40 years have gotten ever more sophisticated right um voter ID laws are much more sophisticated form of voter suppression than poll taxes right and and so I think that I think that I wanted to sort of show that um and and how that fundamentally at its core we're in we're engaged in this struggle right this struggle between these two historical forces racial progress and racist progress and and at some point um there's going to be essentially a moment uh in which this nation is going to have to choose because essentially we've been trying to sort of uh have both elements simultaneously uh driving the sort of history of this country and eventually it's it's essentially not going to work as many of you guys know that are sitting in audience and I'm sure obviously as you know as well whenever we try in this country to have a conversation about race it goes absolutely nowhere you know I would probably have a more productive time just banging my head against a brick wall so why are these conversations that we try to have about race why are they so unproductive oh man where's my uh yeah I know just get your book out and just start reading it right here yeah so I think first and foremost this isn't in any sort of order I think you have everyone imagined themselves as an expert on race um because they're racialized um and so what happens is it's it's it's it's it's it's we we even for instance have difficulty talking about medicine at the same time we recognize there's a such thing as medical researchers and doctors right so can you imagine if generally speaking we didn't even consider doctors to have expertise how difficult it would be for us to sort of have a conversation a difficult conversation about about medicine and with that being said part of the difficulty is you have so many people who refuse to accept their diagnosis and you have so many institutions who refuse to accept that they are racist um and who constantly of course want to defend themselves even though those whose expertise um is assessing them is essentially making the case how and why they're racist and I think people do not want to be identified as racist partly because of the way that we've actually defined it and what I mean by that is I think in many ways people believe that a racist is like a fixed category it's like an identity it's essentially who you are and combined with that we've been led to believe that a racist is fundamentally a bad person and so I'm a good person so I'm not racist uh and I don't want to have that sort of tattoo on myself for the rest of my life when in fact at least I Define racist and even anti-racist as as not a fixed category it's not necessarily who you are but what you are doing in the moment and the reason why that's critical is because there's so many complex people so when it comes to criminal justice they're racist but when it comes to the environment they're anti-racist and when it comes to Health Care uh they're anti-racist but then when it comes to education and uh they're racist and so people are deeply complex um and and so I really think we should Define it based on what a person is saying and and doing in the moment I also think that there's there's a lot of stakes to um to sort of this conversation right and and there are people who benefit obviously from racism I believe that people in certain ways have actually been misled into believing how much they benefit and what I mean by that is so you take for instance white middle income and white working class in white white poor people do they benefit from racism compared to Black middle income people and black working people and black poor people without question but do they benefit from racism as much as black upper income white upper income people no they do not they're different levels of benefit for racist policies and typically white upper income people particularly those who are Behind These policies are typically trying to convince white middle-income people that they benefit from racism more than they would or more egalitarian society and so now as a result you have so many white people dying of whiteness to use the the title of one recent book without necessarily realizing how and why that's happening you also have black um Elites who who are seeking to distance themselves from the black poor who are reinforcing racist ideas of the black poor who imagine that that's how they ascend in this society when in fact Studies have shown that as you rise on the economic ladder as a black person the more likely you are to experience racism and those racist policies are Justified based on racist ideas about the black poor and so you have people supporting the very ideas that are actually harming their own economic Ascent so I'm saying this all to say because I can go on and on about it and we don't let you we have been so misled and manipulated in about the way race and racism operates in this country that so many people think it's in their self-interest when in fact it's really not one of the things you've also talked about I think this is uh before you wrote about the history of racist ideas that you had to deal with your own racism um share that experience and what exactly what racist ideals were you struggling and trying to come to terms with sure so um first of all I'll say that a lot of how to be an anti-racist is is me expressing that um is is me really expressing this sort of Journey that I had to partake in um really in many ways being raised in a black middle class that really had just arrived into the middle class in the 1980s and black men income people who were simultaneously raised in civil rights and black power and so who knew the way in which racism functioned but simultaneously imagine that their arrival into the middle class was based on their own hard work uh and that's contrasting themselves with who the black poor and so in many ways growing up uh in those spaces I was led to believe as a black mental and comparison that I was superior behaviorally to the black poor I mentioned this distinction between black Elites and the black poor because these are two racialized groups these are two racial groups right and so whenever we take any group in racial art we say the black poor as opposed to the poor we're essentially imagining or creating a racial group I also was Nev I was not raised in any way um in any sort of aggressive way to think of black women as equal to black men I was not raised in any aggressive way to think of um black the black queer Community the white queer Community as equal to Black heterosexuals I was not raised to I mean you know I can sort of go on and on there's so many different groups within the black community let alone other communities that are degraded and demeaned that even us too have been sort of manipulated into believing that that that is the case and and so in many ways I had to come to grips with that um I had to sort of look in the mirror and I had to recognize the ways in which I had sort of internalized uh racist ideas um and and that's why I actually sort of argue in in how to be an anti-racist that that internalized racism is the real black on black crime I want to go back to something you you said a moment ago about how a lot of times these conversations we have about race are unproductive because everyone fancies themselves as an expert in this area and um I know a particular frustration for me and I know a lot of people of color this is a frustration is that sometimes we have those conversation we are simultaneously educating at the same time and I just feel like if you're going to have a conversation about race it's just about 10 basic facts I need you to know before we have this conversation and so I asked you the um the expert the doctor um is it can you even have a conversation about race if you lack a knowledge about racist history no you can um and and why is that important to know that history going into these conversations you can expand on that as well well I think I think in order to typically when we have conversations about race we're having conversations about our racialized world our society racial disparities today the reasons for that um what some people would say what's wrong with this or that particular racial group and and every time we're engaged in in those conversations we're really having a historical sort of conversation without necessarily knowing it and and we're constantly talking about why this is the case right I mean even reparations and this discussion we've been having as a nation uh for the last few weeks if anything the last 150 years has been a historical discussion right um and so I think history is is absolutely Central um but what I also think is absolutely critical and even more critical than history um is how we Define terms and so typically we're having a conversation with somebody and we have completely different definitions of racist to give an example um and or even race uh and and how can we have a productive conversation with differing definitions uh clearly when someone who writes um or tells a New York Times Reporter what's the wrong what's wrong with the term white supremacy and then later in that very same story says I'm not racist clearly he has a different definition of a racist than I do right and and many of you do and and I think we have to have a basic definition of abrasive so when I encourage people to have conversations with their crazy uncle um about why he's racist I actually encourage people to First have a discussion with him or even her about simply defining the term racist that you can't even talk about race with that person without having a definition of that term you can't call that person a racist when they have a completely different definition of what a racist is or they don't even know what a racist is they just know that what they're not it which doesn't make any sense right how can you know you're not racist and you have no idea you can't Define racist in a very simple way to apply it to yourself but no no it made us the same as way when people you ask them if racism exists and they say yes but you can give them they don't want to name any examples of it they just make it seem like it's an abstract concept that's out there in the universe bubbling somewhere but it's not there it's like what it's Gotta exist somewhere right um I just want to tell you guys too I think we have we're going to leave about 15 minutes for uh questions so if you have any questions not statements okay if you have any questions uh you can sort of start thinking of those now I'm not sure exactly time wise where we are but I wanted to kind of plant that seed right now another interesting thing that that you have discussed and talked about is the difference between segregationist ideas and assimilationist ideas can you explain what that difference is sure so in in writing stamp from the beginning I I thought that ultimately I was going to write this sort of two-way debate over the course of American history between racist ideas and anti-racist ideas as I just sort of described those ideas suggesting that the racial groups um are equals and other ideas suggesting racial hierarchy but the more I research specifically racist ideas the more I realized that actually there have been two groups of racist ideas constantly challenging each other constantly debating each other and so really stamped is a three-way debate two kinds of racist ideas segregationists and assimilationist ideas um constantly sort of battling anti-racist ideas so the easiest way to understand the difference between segregationists and assimilationist ideas is the nature versus nurture debate so segregationist ideas typically state that black people let's say are inferior by Nature um basically we are genetically inferior biologically inferior permanently inferior assimilationist ideas typically state that that black people are inferior by nurture that we're all created equal but black people were were born and bred in in barbaric Africa uh black people were born in in bred in those barbaric broken black homes or those barbaric broken black communities or those pathological cultures and and so because we're all created equal assimilationists would say and because their inferiority was nurtured we can also nurture away their inferiority we literally can civilize and and develop uh black people and and and and essentially racial progress from the standpoint of assimilationist is civilizing black people while segregationists are like you can't civilize them it's impossible you can't they're they're by Nature stupid they're having stupid Gene so how do you think you can ever make them intelligent it is impossible and assimilationists are like no remember what Thomas Jefferson said we're all created equal we can do this look at that black person who is raised in in that white home look at how great and civilized uh they became and so anyway this has been a back and forth discussion and assimilationist uh were peopleing Abolitionist Movement the Civil Rights Movement many liberals progressives even radicals are assimilationists and and I think one of the things I wanted to do with stamped is show that fundamentally it doesn't matter how and why you explain a particular racial group in the case of stem black people are inferior if you say a particular group in a keep saying group is inferior you're expressing a racist idea no is there here um with assimilationist ideas is that similar to the sort of respectability Ideal that we have to um that our humanity is conditional that we have to you know people will treat you better if you pull your pants up that kind of thing are those very similar yes and and so and and stamp from the beginning I call it uplift suasion I call this strategy this this strategy to undermine white racism uh as upliftuation it was largely taught to black people by white abolitionists and then black people basically started passing it down from generation to generation and and most black people have been taught uh that if you would only act better then they will think better if you only uplifted yourselves then you can essentially persuade away white racist ideas and what that fundamentally means it's very popular potentially the most popular uh strategy within and outside of the black community to undermine racist ideas what it fundamentally says is that black people are partially responsible for the racist ideas that white people have about them that you are responsible your negative behavior has caused it so if you would only act better they would think better about you and to suggest that somehow black people are responsible um that there's some truth to racist ideas anti-black racist ideas is to essentially Express a racist idea so that's the irony this extremely popular strategy to undermine racist ideas that has circulated pervasively in the black community let alone in Liberal white communities is based in a racist idea and and then we wonder why it has failed um but what even if it's more striking is when somehow black individuals are able to act in an upstanding manner it doesn't oftentimes persuade away racist ideas what people say is oh you're extraordinary you're not like those ordinary inferior black people Sal's Pizzeria and you're extraordinary oh my god I've never met somebody like you right and and and and so it's just striking how we still and I think many people are finally beginning to realize the politics of respectability has failed miserably the politics of respectability forces each and individ each individual black person to carry the entire race so you you ever see black people walking around with their backs bent it's because they're carrying the entire race on their back right um and so hopefully at some point we'll we'll eliminate this and stop using it um we can open this up for questions now but I want to ask you one last question um uh so a lot of people when we think about race and racism it feels like this huge unsolvable problem that we can never ever fully tackle but you have a a more optimistic view of that um what is that view do is this a problem that we can actually solve so um I do think it's a problem we can solve and and I don't think that it's a problem we can solve because I'm I can see the future I don't uh I think it's a problem that we can I I believe that we should believe that it's a problem we can solve because once we believe that it's impossible it's guaranteed that we won't be able to solve it right and and so I also as a student of History if if this panel if we would have been talking we probably wouldn't be talking but uh if if we were to be talking in 1860 uh before the election of of Abraham Lincoln before South Carolina succeeded uh or even afterwards uh we could have been talking about can cattle slavery ever be ended right slaveholders uh were the richest group of men because they were mostly men but 40 of them were women as a new book book has showed the the richest group of people in the world the combined assets of enslaved people in 1860 were worth more than all other American assets combined when you talk about the power of slaveholders and the wealth of slaveholders um you're talking about a collection of people in a collection of power that this nation has never before seen and so to imagine that these extremely powerful people uh who are so powerful and Wealthy could lose their assets that slavery which had lived in this country for 250 years and was only continuing to to become even more quote productive from the standpoint of slaveholders uh in their wealth could in five years be no more at least in the case of child slavery right uh people would have thought you were crazy I mean it's impossible it's too embedded uh it's too historic it's there's so many powerful forces against it and it's the same thing with Haiti right for those of you who aren't familiar with with the Haitian revolution in 1791 these enslaved people uh decided that they were going to rise up against this their slave masters Haiti was the most profitable colony in the world in 1791. the Jewel of the French Empire the British Empire of Portuguese all the other colonial empires all wanted Haiti because it was so wealthy and so to imagine that in 13 years that these enslaved people with no military training could defeat local Masters and armies from Spain England and Brit in England in succession to win their freedom people who thought I mean that's just impossible I mean you know I can go on and on with examples from history even the American Revolution if somebody would have thought these small these 13 small weak uh uh colonies or States if you wanted to call them could defeat the mighty British Empire people who thought I mean that's just crazy right but it happened and and it happened because the people believed uh it could happen and and they were committed to creating a different type of world for themselves all right we're gonna open up the floor for questions so please raise your hand I see this gentleman here you with the glasses yeah you turn it around is there somebody bring your microphone thank you that was excellent and um I'm wondering I just finished reading Robin D'Angelo's white fragility and I think she did like an excellent job of defining racism as like a system of Oppression as opposed to like a personal choice it's like it's there you benefit from it or you don't that's its purpose you talked about the importance of defining racism but I but unless I missed it which is possible I didn't I didn't hear your personal definition is there is there one that you would offer us like how do you define racism sure so racism I would Define it um as a collection of racist policies that lead to racial inequity that are substantiated by racist ideas say that here [Laughter] sure a collection of racist policies that lead to racial inequity that are substantiated by racist ideas and anti-racism is a pretty simple using the same terms anti-racism is a collection of anti-racist policies leading to racial anybody want to take a guess Equity that are substantiated by anti-racist ideas foreign thank you for this it's the most comprehensive talk I've seen on racism my whole life I really appreciate you that's um how do you differentiate a race that I said how do you differentiate racism from white supremacy and if you do how and why so I I see racism the way I understand the relationship between racism and and white supremacy is that the effect the result of racism those policies those inequities those ideas is white supremacy right and so that's what happens right when you have a series of of racist policies particularly pro-white racist policies as most uh racist policies are it's going to lead to white supremacy it's going to lead to a current nation in which people of color um are growing in size but their power right particularly at a national level and even in many states are not growing in size another way I understand white supremacy is the way in which white supremacy normalizes whiteness um and that's when you really are Supreme right even when you think of power right when you think of power absolute power that truly has power you are not trying you don't have to flex your muscles right you don't have to um continuously use violence or other forms to essentially subdue you literally like your power is absolute it's Supreme it's understood it's considered to be normal um in the way rightness as a result of white supremacy which comes out of racism has been normalized hi I have two quick questions um one is about allyship and really wanting you to speak to what you feel are the greatest missteps you see in the process of uh anyone's desire to be an ally and what you believe that actually means and the second question is about internalized racism for folks of color and particularly folks in positions of power within institutions what do you feel are the greatest opportunities for them as Gatekeepers to really model anti-racism so two questions sure um so you mind if I take the second one first okay so there's been pushback among Black Folk in particular about this idea that we can internalize racism too what I've found is some of the most forceful pushback has been black people in positions of power and the reason why they've pushed back is because the way it's currently sort of concedes when they when a black person gets in a position of power and reproduces and maintains the same anti-black racist policies as their white predecessors and they defend those policies with the same racist ideas as their white predecessors we certainly don't call them racist in the way we did their white predecessors so in anything because of their color of their skin they're given a pass which then allows them right to continuously do that which is why they're actually empowered in those positions in the first place and they imagine that all they essentially have to do is sit in those positions because if they do their credit to the race but if we say no it's not enough for you to sit in those positions that you have the power to either further racist or anti-racist policies what are you going to do it puts them in a completely different situation that they don't want to be in right um and so I think that people in positions of power black people or people of color more broadly in positions of power need to obviously if they're going to be anti-racist uh ensure that they are pushing and defending policies that that that create more racial um Equity into your first question in terms of allyship I think that we've had many and I suspect you're talking about white allies okay um and I one of the things that I think has happened is when allies white allies think about their goal their goal has been to what be not racist right and and so what I'm arguing is that no your your goal should be to be to be anti-racist because if you're not striving to be anti-racist then you're striving to be racist and you're certainly not going to be an ally if you're what if you're racist uh and so I think it's critical uh for people to to essentially strive and for them to recognize for allies to recognize that there's no in-between safe space neutrality in this struggle right what are we doing either we're furthering um and reproducing this unequal Society or we're part of the struggle against it okay thank you for uh your several examples of how people overcame the unthinkable uh one of the things about those examples is that there were very tangible ends the end of slavery the end of colonization how do you recommend that we deal with things like implicit bias these unconscious beliefs that are really hard for us to sometimes operationalize and even more so see in our settings what are recommendations to really use anti-racist approaches to these things so I think that I think one of the good things about the sort of emergence of Notions of implicit and unconscious bias over the last I guess it's been 20 years now has has been that it it causes people to talk about race and racism um sometimes not even using the r word right and so it it opens the door for people uh to have these discussions I think one of the downsides of concepts of of implicit and unconscious bias is that what causes a person to be biased we don't have that conversation ideas that's what causes them to be buying so I think when that's why I don't really write um or speak on bias whether implicit or or or or or not because to me I want to talk about the underlying what's underlying the bias itself and that's ideas right and and and I would also argue that if we talk about ideas we can then see how those ideas are actually very overt very explicit but what happens is people don't recognize their own ideas as racist and so I can ask anybody why for instance is the black unemployment rate twice as high in this country as the wine unemployment rate there's only two ways they can answer that question either they can say there's something wrong with black workers or something right about white workers which is an explicit expression of racist ideas or they could say what racist policies and so I think it's how we're asking the question can actually get people to see what's actually in their minds and what's underlying this bias that has become implicit because we're not asking the right questions thank you so I liked the concept that you talked about around assimilation and what I'm curious about is what do you think it looks like to be because we interact with so many systems and institutions what do you think it looks like to be successful in Black without feeding into the concept of assimilation um so I think more or less first and foremost to to be yourself to be who you want to be in the world and if you create a standard that you want to measure Yourself by as a black person then that standard should not be unattainable what I mean by that is if you as a dark skin or even a brown skin person have this standard that white skin is beautiful you've now created a standard that's completely unattainable right and and so instead of creating a standard that is actually attainable um which is closer to your your skin complexion right I would also say that black people like other group of people should recognize that What Makes Us equal to white people and other racial groups is actually not because of the great black people and there's some great black people in this room that I could point out um is it's because of our imperfections it's our imperfections that actually make us human and thereby equal so be yourself now the problem is if you if you're yourself if you try if you essentially be yourself which means that at times you're going to quote exhibit black stereotypes at times you're going to do you're going to have your lazy day and times you're going to be human what's going to happen obviously is racist people are going to generalize you and that individual behavior and then potentially punish you as a result and so then the question becomes fundamentally for us as we're navigating these institutions is it better for us to be ourselves or is it better for us to essentially continuously try to wear the mask to essentially Ascend and we have to make those decisions for ourselves I've had a pretty difficult Road through the academy because I've refused to Cowtown in in certain ways that other young black academics do and and it's been an extremely difficult Road for me and and I wouldn't sort of I wouldn't suggest it on anyone but at the same time I'm happy you know I'm happy with who I am we have a young lady in the back yep you and we probably have time for one more question after this and then we have to wrap up thank you just uh quickly on being ourselves I want to say that in California there is pending legislation called the crown Act which will make discrimination against hairstyles yeah illegal which I think is it sounds like are they going to do that at the airports too you ain't lying boy let's hope so yeah let's hope so you'll have to come to LAX and test it out all the way in 2019. yeah that's not getting around to that earlier today I got a chance to hear Tara Westover talk from her novel educated about how she learned about slavery she learned about it in rural Idaho from a book on her father's mantle that was talking about slave owners having such a hard time whoa whoa whoa is the slave holders earlier this week I saw something on the Internet talking about how slaveholders actually got reparations before slavery was outlawed something I didn't know and I consider myself a fairly well-read person so my question to you today is what place does the truth play in creating an anti-racist Society so I think the truth is Central racist ideas have have long been built on lies racist ideas need Believers not thinkers thinkers typically look for the truth Believers are liable to believe anything right and so I think the truth is absolutely Central and you're absolutely correct about slaveholders you know receiving reparations um and actually um I guess was probably supposed to be Pub in the Atlantic I mean I actually wrote a piece in the Atlantic um it's allowed uh you know earlier this week uh which was framed around a speech Abraham Lincoln gave on December 1st 1862 with the Emancipation Proclamation pending in four weeks trying to from his standpoint unify the country because so many Northerners were against the Emancipation Proclamation and so in his attempt to bring these people together um and to create this compromise among friends to quote them directly he essentially offered uh in his address to Congress a 13th Amendment and that 13th Amendment would first and foremost um make it such that each state would need to emancipate uh their enslaved black people by January 1st 1900 I think that's not a risk Sprint by January 1st 1900 and those slaveholders would be compensated for emancipating all of those enslaved people and which I didn't talk about in the piece black people who would like to leave America and go back to Africa they would pay their way that was his proposal and essentially that was compensating right slaveholders who had long as you sort of mentioned been projecting themselves as the victims this is a war of Northern aggression that we are victimized as Southern as South Carolina successionists wrote when they succeeded from Union by abolitionists that we are the true victims um and and as a result Lincoln was like okay you're a victim let's compensate you let's repair you let's give you reparations by by compensating you for these enslaved people you know we we know I'm sure for those of you who haven't heard about that um that was the second time he did that because he also made that case in his first address to con to Congress in 1861 but we haven't heard about that right because it was pretty much rejected in the Emancipation Proclamation uh came forward but that's how close this country was to black people being enslaved another 37 years and all of those rich white people receiving wealth for com force emancipating their slaves I mean can you imagine how close we were to that mind blown um final question right here I didn't get paid to be racist that's amazing anyway go ahead um I Echo everyone here to thank you both uh the question I have has to do with um with healing I'm from the city of Pittsburgh where June of this month we marked the year of the untimely death of Antoine Rose 17 year old young black man exemplary shot in the back unarmed by a police officer it was striking and deeply painful um amidst the the case and the verdict of the police officer and so my question to you and this story as we all know is not a it's not a uncommon story across our nation so my question to you is as black people as people of color are pursuing and and fighting for the upholding of anti-racist ideals towards racial Equity are there tenants from which one could also draw a sense of healing and a capability of dealing with pain while at the same time you're resisting from which pain is often generated in the first place um so I think that what more and more people in the movement are calling self-care I would argue that that is absolutely essential and I didn't really write about this in in how to be an anti-racist but I sort of spoke to it indirectly that it's absolutely essential to being to being anti-racist and and the reason being is because if you are truly going to be a part of this struggle you have to be a part of this struggle for some time right you know you can't essentially um uh organize yourself into the grave right you literally have to figure out a way to ensure that you're putting your health first right and and I sort of had to learn this uh in particular because for a time I didn't put my health first and it led to me being diagnosed with stage four colon cancer um which I had to deal with last year um and that sort of showed me just how important right um it was for each of us to ensure um that we as we're sort of doing this type of work and as we're literally consuming um and engaged and really relating to the trauma because if you're truly you know somebody who's working on Antoine uh Antoine's case like you are almost feeling the pain of his family right um and so constantly sort of feeling this pain the pain of racism you know we have people right now who are feeling the pain of those children in those camps at the border right and so at the same time if you're feeling this pain constantly what are you doing to take care of yourself what are you doing to release yourself um to ensure that that pain is not going to essentially kill you um and I think that's absolutely critical because if we don't do it um then we're going to have another untimely death and there's so been so many untimely deaths um of people as we know who have been engaged in this type of work well I want to thank you guys for attending and being active and captive audience please a round of applause for Dr Cindy

Channel: The Aspen Institute

Views: 337,368

Keywords: Aspen Ideas Festival, Ibram X. Kendi, Jemele Hill

Id: TzuOlyyQlug

Length: 54min 54sec (3294 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 26 2019