How to align a bike frame using two different methods - with Paul Brodie

hi i'm paul brodie and we are not in my shop  today like usual we are out at ufv this is called   the bike shop and this is where i taught frame  building 101 for nine and a half years what we're   going to do today is to align a frame it's a rocky  mountain hammer that's our project for today but   as i mentioned we're out at frame building 101  and in the summer of 2019 a young man enrolled   in the class and that was mitch he is the man  behind the camera now so there was a connection   in frame building 101 in between what's happening  in this youtube channel so thank you mitch   let's go for a little walk around and i'll show  you what we've got here what's left we've got some   oxy acetylene bottles here oxygen acetylene  there's also argon we used to have the four   stands here there was a brazing stand here  one two and then three and then four this was   over there so ignore this and these because those  weren't there we had mats all over the floor   i had posters on the wall i had my big sign  up there you can see the hook over there   and we've got the milling machine here it's a lot  like the one that i have in my shop it's there's   no vice because that was my vice so it doesn't  look like anybody's used it at all we've got a new   lathe you can see we had some issues with students  and the chuck key so i made a sign pretty big well   first i made this sign and then it still happened  so that's when i put the caution all around it   had some success with that but usually someone  would forget and then we had a bunch of the   frame fixtures and the small things on the  wall over there you can still see the outline   and this is the bench this is the main bench with  the with the vise it's a i think it's a six inch   record and this is where we would align the frame  so this is really solid this bench is anchored to   the wall here so it doesn't move and then there  was all sorts of jigs and things underneath   arbor press that was used to ovalize tubing  things like that got a whole bunch of head tubes   all the tubing is over here had a problem  with birds in here so that's why we put the   cardboard here and there's a whole bunch  of braisons here there's there's dropouts   all different sizes of the bottom bracket shells  for the fat bikes 100 millimeters so we had a   pretty good stock here they're braisons let's go  around the other side and we'll see what's there   we've got a a drill press a belt sander we've got  a grinder here this was mostly used to sharpen up   the tungstens and a bandsaw that was used to cut  the tubing and then round here is the tig booth   it's kind of full of stuff but this is where  all the all the tig welding happened and then   over in the corner is a massive of chrome molle  it's basically straight gauge tubing because   sometimes we had a need for that and we've got  rolled tubing we got all sorts of stuff here so   got lots of memories here nine and a half years  that was kind of a long time anyway we got a   project so i've got a beautiful frame here i  got this for free it came from have at life   cycles in abbotsford thank you harv i think  he had it kicking around a long time and so   he donated it to frame building 101  and it sat around for quite a while   there's no threads the boss is bent so so what  i did back in my shop i i washed it with solvent   it was pretty dirty and i faced and chased the  bottom bracket because when you align a frame   basically everything starts off the  surfaces of the bottom bracket so i   wanted to make sure that those were  flat what we're going to do here we're going to use a surface table i'm going to  align the frame on the surface table and we'll see   i i have no idea if it's in alignment or  how far it's out i haven't checked anything   on it all i've done is wash it and clean  up the surfaces of the bottom bracket so   let's see what we do i think the first  thing we'll do is to take a vernier   and just have a look and see if the  down tube is more or less in the middle   i think that would be a good thing to do just  for our own reference it's pretty darn close it's not out by a mile or anything like  that so that's a good starting point   on a surface table there's always something that   holds the bottom bracket and this is  hardened steel this is really solid so the first thing as an observation is that this  is smaller than the inside of the bottom bracket   so you can have it to one side or the other i  think it's important to have it in the middle   so that's where your eyeball comes in i  chromometer so and then you crank it down   i've modified this tool it used to have three  allen screws holding it in but it was really   hard if you had to move it up and down you'd  loosen them and then it would kind of jam so i   changed this around a bit and i made these knurled  knobs in my lathe so this goes on here like that   and you can can you see how it's not centered  so the first thing we want to do is to center it and then everything comes off this and that looks good the first thing i'm going to  do is to is to check the seat tube this this here   is so that after you've aligned align the seat  tube you can move the frame over and you can   you can move these knurled knobs or discs so that  they're on either side and it holds the seat tube   in place and then you can move move the down  tube and align the head tube so that's the   first thing to do is to see how we're doing on  the seat tube here so there's no space there and there's no space there so actually the  seat tube is aligned quite well that's good   so i'm going to move the frame over now like that  and we're going to sandwich this just lightly so that's going to hold it there we  go so i cut i can't move it up or down   next thing we'll check is the down tube  oh okay so there's an obvious gap here   there's about a i don't know eighth of an  inch gap so what we need to do is to pull up so let's try that i'm lifting the table actually which is  quite heavy and it still has to come up more   i did bring something i brought a  car jack i just had a feeling that   i should maybe bring a car jack it's got a rubber  bit on the top i use this in my shop quite a bit   so this will allow me to put more more force than  i can put on there i just i should have brought   the handle i need to find a handle and what i  think i'll do i'll take a measurement so that   i know how much i'm going up so i'm going it goes  up quick so there i'm at the i'm at the 130 there   and we'll just go up incrementally i think that's  the best way to do it rather than all at once and   still got a gap so we did 130 last time so why  don't we do let's go to 140. there we go got 140   and we still have a gap getting some  torque on here now so let's go 150   we'll bend it so it's getting closer but it's  still out it's chromoly it's got a memory right   so it wants to spring back that's  part of the nature of chromoly   so we're gonna go to 160 this time that's  quite a bit of torque isn't it and there's 160 and it's still not straight the king okay so what  holds this on to the surface table is a big bolt   and when we got here i tightened this with my big  wrench as much as i could but it's apparently come   loose so i guess that's a little bit  of the shortcoming of of this design that's what goes in it's like it's it's cost  it's not it's not machine or anything it's just   cost so yeah let's try that and the story with  the surface table is that we went down to nabs   myself in the university and the gentleman that  had the booth right next to us he was selling   stuff and he had surface tables and he had  other tools as well and frame jigs i think too   so in the course of conversation i  think the university was offered a deal   that's how we ended up with a surface table  and the surface table has been here maybe while i was teaching five or six years and  we'll get into that story in a little bit okay so that didn't change anything  look i can put a ruler through there   we still have a pretty big gap so 165 is right  there that's a long ways there we go 165. okay so it went a little  too far there which is fine   because that's the best way to align  a frame is to go a little bit too far   and then then go back to center so i'm  going to give it a little bit of a push so we're tight there oh okay so that's good   we don't have paper going in either  side so that's good next stage is we know the seat tube is level level  with the table so now we put in a bar   and we check on either side that'll that'll  let us know if the head tube is in line with   the seat tube so if i twist that now  so that's pretty solid now we use this we have a huge gap on top and over here we also have a huge gap on top  so in theory this should be right in line   because because the down tube is aligned  with the bottom bracket so it's in the middle   and if i run my fingers over  the down tube and the head tube   it's not like the head tube is off to one side  but this is showing that that the down tube is is too low which doesn't really make any sense  so what i'm going to do is to i'm going to lower   this so that this bar head tube alignment bar is  in the middle and then i'll check the other side   and then we'll know if the head tube is in  line with the seat too let's try that okay   so that's good now we come over here so that's  tight oh we we've got quite a gap under here so what that means is that i have  to pull the head tube this way   and that's the main reason i i brought this out  because i thought if i have to put leverage on one   of these i want it supported under here so let's  do that there you go i've got some support and now there we go okay that's good and then over here  oh okay so that means that the head tube is now in   line with the seat tube so there's one more thing  we can do on the surface table and that's to check   how the how the rear end is doing how the how the  dropouts are see these here see these spaces here   i think we've got probably 126 130 135  let's just check because we want the 135 that is if you can see that that is 135.  all right so what this shows is that that has to go down and so does  that because it's out of alignment okay so that's good so this frame is aligned  right let's check what we're going to do now   is to flip it over because if it works on one  side then it should work on the other side right that's what we wanted  now we'll go to the seat tube   okay so we flip the frame over can you  see how there's a huge gap here now that's not very good and let's go up here so we  got a gap we got a gap here again so i flip the   frame over and it should be the same but it's not  so when we got this surface table that is exactly   what i did i aligned the frame on one side and i  flipped it over and it's out so i phoned up the   person who sold the university the surface table  and i explained to him and he says oh no he says   you never flip the frame around it always goes  on to the surface table the same way it goes   onto the jig and i said well how do you double  check it he says no he always put it on the   surface table one way that's what you do and to  me that made absolutely no sense at all because   in the system that i use i double check everything  that's how my system works so we talked on the   phone for half an hour and i could see that  i wasn't getting anywhere so i'm not a fan of   big surface tables so why don't we align  the frame using the system that i use   and you decide what's simpler this surface table  has been out here while i was teaching for five or   six years and i would show students how to align  on the surface table and then i would show them   my system so there's there had to be probably  80 or 100 students that came through when this   table was here and you know how many students  use the surface table to align their frames   not one not even one student use the service  table they all use my method because i think   it's easier and faster so i'll show you my method  if you've been watching our series you you know   that i made a fancy alignment gauge but i didn't  always have this and what i want to show you is   that basically we use this one for over 30 years  and this one works fine and look how simple it is   it's just a piece of eighth inch flat bar there's  a pointer welded on a a piece of flat steel it   got machined so that it's perfectly flat and it  works fine so i'll use this for the down tube so   let's just have a look and see how straight this  is now so what i do is i just rest it on on the   wooden table what i'm doing i got one hand on each  side so i'm putting force onto the bottom bracket shelf and i move it back and forth  until it just almost touches or touches   can you see that see how close  it is and i go over center   and the bottom bracket's nice  and flat and then i flip it over and it's slightly out it needs  to get pulled to the left   can you see that slightly out so let's align it  let's do that so i put in my bottom bracket shells hold it in the vise you have to be careful in  the vise because if you're not careful you can   damage your frame aligning a frame i used to tell  my students is the two f's it's force and finesse   and maybe it seems like they're  opposite but not really because   you need force to move the frame  but where the finesse comes in   is that you incrementally pull the pull the frame  so i put my foot up here and i got my knee on here   so now because if i'm out here i can't tell  how much force i'm putting on the frame   if i use my knee and my shoulder  muscles and my back muscles   i get a real sense of how hot i'm pulling  the frame so we'll give it a little pull okay that pulled it just a little  bit you saw it bend a little bit   and and the finesse comes in is that if i  need to pull it again i add 10 percent i   don't add 50 or more just incrementally so we  we had to pull it left it's very very close okay so i need to pull it again because it  didn't move enough it's i've got to pull it more   and this is where the experience comes in a bit  because i i have a sense of how hard to pull so there we go see that little bit of space there and we got a little bit of space there so  that down tube is aligned so now we'll check   the seat tube i'm gonna i'm gonna use my  fancy one it's not gonna make it any better so that we're very very close  and now we'll flip it over okay that's good there's nothing wrong with that   so we have aligned the down tube and the seat  tube so now we have to check the head tube with   the seat tube and that's where my little surface  table comes in let's go check it i put this in like that no screwing around you see how this  mat can you see that see how that matches there   and then i lock this move the handles around here and when i spread  the handles apart it locks that is solid   so this is my small surface tail  well it's the universities but   at home i have one identical and this this  table you can basically make it yourself   it costs thousands of dollars less than this one  literally thousands of dollars okay so even though   i align the head tube on this big surface  table can you see here how it's out see that i trust this more than that i really  do so what we have to do now is to bend this   down and that's what the hooks are for here you  see these hooks and this little ledge got added   later because frames got longer so now i put a  couple of these under the bottom bracket shell   and then now i'm going to press down i'm  going to put a bit of force on that okay so i put force on there but we still have a gap   i have to be careful here see see  how the how the seat tube is ovalized   i have to make sure that i'm off the overlies part  here if i put it down here i'd get a false reading   so you always have to be watch out if there's  a bit of ovalization going on so we still have we still have a little problem here i'm about  180 pounds but i can only put so much weight on   this so what i've got here is a little bit of  a cheetah bar and it slides into the seat tube   so what you don't want to do is to put it in a  little ways and then put all your weight on that   because you could cause a problem in here you  want to put it in at least a certain amount of   ways and then i'm just i'm using a small part  of it here you can bounce a bit too so that's got my feet off the ground this is not   oversized tubing at all but it shows you that  it's pretty tough stuff this chromoly and so i'm still not getting it aligned even  though on the big surface table i checked   it and it was a line but with the big surface  table it came with this bar there's there's   two different sizes this is a little bit of a  taper and i think this is the smaller size so there we go and the seat stay actually i heard it it  just touched the table very very slightly   look at that so this frame head tube seat tube it was definitely out so  i'm gonna have to put even more force on that   i have a theory and i'll voice it i know  there's a lot of frame builders that use   a big surface table and they  probably only check it on one side   i have a suspicion that maybe quite  a few frames aren't that well aligned   that's my suspicion but a frame really has to be  out of alignment quite a bit and then you can't   write no hands so if it's out of alignment  a little bit maybe it's not a big deal but   i'm just fussy i'm a fussy frame builder okay  we're going to put even more force on here now   i'm going to hold it out here more because if  something happens there i don't really mind see it touching the table and  if this doesn't make it straight   then i add another spacer under here that's that's  the methodology you add spaces at that point okay very close but still needs a bit  more okay so i've got a quarter inch flat steel and i'm adding that and so what's gonna happen is that when   i'm gonna touch that that's a pretty big  space isn't it that's like three fingers   that's how much i'm going to bend  the frame to try and make it straight there you go you heard it touch you know if  this rocky mountain was perfectly straight   we wouldn't have much of a video would we okay so  this is what's happened here now is that i've gone   see i've gone a little bit over center can  you see there's a little bit of a gap there   so that's actually good because  now i put it under that hook   and i put it like this and i'm just  going to give a little little push okay   that's all because it's got  that thing called memory look at that that's perfect that's absolutely  perfect so now we're going to do   the we're going to align the dropouts okay we're  heading towards the last part of alignment and   that is the dropouts and so the axle on this  bike is 135 so we want to space it to 136   so if it ever moved in the touch the wheel  would still slide right in what we want is   is the dropouts to be in the center of the seat  tube and the head tube so that's where this comes   in this is an alignment stick and i made this i  made this in 1985 it's pretty simple it's a piece   of aluminum it's tubing with an insert in the end  this is made out of stainless doesn't have to be   but there's an allen screw and you see how i can  move that and it stays where it is you see that so what i do i hold it like so i've  got my hand about half way in between   and then i have to have to rotate it  so that i know i'm going through the full it hit it's just touching  now we check the other side oh and we just aligned that on the  big table we had it right so obviously   there's a discrepancy  between the big surface table   and how i align the frame so if you're  getting into frame building it's your choice   you can spend a lot of money on a big  surface table it looks really impressive   but making up a few simple hand tools i  think you get a frame which is aligned   better okay so we need to check well we're at  about 140 so we need to come in a little bit   both sides have to move over a little  bit so just give it a little nudge oops so we're like 138 just touching and that one's still close so you know sometimes  these are hard to move if you got a really   thick stay a strong stay so if you put a rag here this just makes it a little bit easier  a little bit more more controllable yeah we're about 140 still but  we got to come to the middle see the space there we got to come in a little bit   and it comes back pretty easy  oops came back quite a bit we're at 136 so on the surface table on the big  surface table that's basically all we can do   but i'm going to show you there's some extra  steps i've got a couple other tools i'll grab them   what this is is my it's even got a label  seat stay fixture and this is what i use   for when i i tack on the seat stays this  holds the dropouts and this fits up around   the top of the seat too so but it's also  used as an alignment tool so i put this in   can you see that there it's closed  it's a little bit on the left   so it's a little bit towards the left but not bad  so what i could do i won't do it now i could take a round file and i could file up just a touch  and that will get the wheel back into the middle   but i won't do that now and then the second thing  which you can't do on a big surface table i got   the campy tools these are our dropout tools they  go in like that and it tells you if the faces are parallel with each other oh look at that  can you see how it's out it's out a mile   these ought to be in line with  each other so i'll show you how i   do this this one has to go that  way so i put the handle like that because now see what i'm doing i pull  this way and i push this way watch it bend there we go and if you look if  you look from this view can you   see how there's a gap under the  bottom so i need to push this up i'm i'm bending the dropouts and it's  pretty close and when you hold them together   they should be very very close so that frame is  aligned i think i've told you all i know about   alignment right now so thank you very much for  watching i hope you enjoyed it this probably   opens up a whole can of worms on alignment in  the frame building community but that's okay   if you like it please give us  a thumbs up please subscribe   we got merchandise for sale t-shirts hoodies  mugs and we both like coffee thank you very   much thanks for watching see you next week  that's a real dinophile the real thing   that's how you change the belts like that  and then you flip the cover back over   it's a nice tool really nice to the university

Channel: paul brodie

Views: 46,428

Keywords: headtube, jig, fixture, alignment, frame building, framebuilding, steel, metal work, metalwork, mill, bicycle, custom, surface table, brazing, aligning, pulling, bending, pushing

Id: V2U5uhZN5v8

Length: 34min 50sec (2090 seconds)

Published: Sat Feb 20 2021