How Indian Makes 43% More Power than Harley-Davidson

[Music] do you know how to go faster think slowly think about harley davidson this one displaces 1.2 liters costs 13 grand and dinos at 58 freedom power then think about indian scout bobber same same same but 83 horsepower there's one place indian can find a 43 percent gain one time [Music] it's the turn of the century and lubrication science is inexact riders are told to grab a crude court of whatever the five and dime is selling squirted into their engines wait until much of the oil leaks back out then repeat total loss lubrication is the norm until 1936. hence the old truism if it ain't leaking oil it's out of oil and hence engines typically turn slow otherwise you risk flinging too much lubricant away and seizing before the next squirt so how do we get power out of a slow engine well horsepower is torque times rpm over 5252 so if we can't raise rpm we need to raise torque consider a fat piston our explosion takes a while to exert its force across the piston head so that hit of torque is spread thin and for a given displacement a fat bore means a short stroke so our weak force is operating on a stubby little lever what it showed but with a tall narrow cylinder our explosion instantly exerts its force across the full piston head and a longer stroke means a longer crankshaft radius so more force transmitted through a more effective lever results and more torque this is why old-fashioned engines tend to be tall and their long stroke allows for decent power while keeping rpm low nowadays lubrication and machining have significantly advanced [Music] why chase a few torques when you can just add a few thousand rpm that's an easier way to find power when we can throw pistons as fast as we want without melting them of course fire only moves as fast as it wants which is a problem for our tall cylinders see the piston in an under square motor has to travel further and therefore faster per revolution at high rpm such a piston will actually start to outrun the expanding fireball and this is why if you've ever revved up a tall v twin it starts to feel like it's running out of legs the solution gentlemen choose the chode even at high rpm the piston needn't move that fast or far meaning it's always there near top dead center to fuel the force of combustion and if our over square motor can hit higher revolutions per minute while feeling more torque at those speeds then congratulations we just found the modern way to make power [Music] [Applause] indian knows this but of course harley does too the difference lies between knowing the way forward and being able to move in that direction [Music] see our over square motor spins so fast you need overhead cams to open and close the valves we can't use pushrod actuators they're heavy and heavy things don't like to change direction quickly so they fail to keep up with engine speed and float their tappets behind the cans but but harley-davidsons must have push rods on the side of their motors two extra penises per cylinder it's iconic and if you think that's a hard sell then remember how your engine is hottest here where combustion happens and here where combustion acts it's the cylinder walls that are comparatively cool so in an over square engine less gas gets to shed heat and it takes more time to do it meaning we have to compensate with better cooling liquid cooling but but harley davidson's must have air cooling fins it's iconic and there we've reached the place where nostalgia pushes back on ability if the branding department says we must have air cooling then it helps to have a long cylinder surface area and the dick jokes are just that jokes the truth is that we can barely blame harley for pushing vintage motors they tried the other way and few bought it the harley-davidson b-rod so when the branding department says we must have push rods then it is what it is which is the turn of the century problem all over again rpm is capped so a long crankshaft radius exerting high torque is the next best way to make power that is why harleys are under square and underpowered and that is how indian by daring to build a motor that looks modern can have an over square overhead cam liquid-cooled engine revved to 8300 rpm and make 43 percent more power it's an addictively satisfying motor the scout goes like a v-rod has the finished quality of edina and is priced like a sportster i could throw down that indian succeeds where harley fails but i need to think slowly to think back back to the original scout how low bikes once were how front and rear tires were once the same size because no one bothered to manufacture differently turning agility and available lean angle weren't the markers of performance back then because the board track leaned with you of course now it's rather backwards to put a flat-footed rear tire on the front just as it's antiquated to build a bike so low [Music] yet here we are because it's iconic i find indian guilty of harley's crime i'm sure the motor is pure engineering but they sacrificed a heritage all around it most frustratingly the transmission it's geared like a board tracker so you almost never get out of second i can hardly benefit from 8300 rpm if i only hit the rev limiter at 130 kilometers an hour a pure bruiser cruiser would have a narrower front tire taller than two inches of rear suspension and shorter gearing that ain't a wish list that bike exists we're not about history or legacy victory is you know is very new and we can take it in where we want it to go it gives us freedom well that bike used to exist anyway polaris produced the victory octane for all of one year before abandoning the innovative brand why because it failed to capture the nostalgia buyer that indian could we're a fickle customer in north america we want steps forward but we want them to move us closer to where we started [Music] maybe the scout is as near as we'll get to solving that paradox it is a compromised bike but a mostly brilliant one i mean even if indian could go back how would they sell innovation better maybe invest millions developing a dominant machine just for competition use just to remind everyone of their performance pedigree just to preface their entry into a sporting market and that's about the only way i can imagine a classic brand causing a pure revelation while seeming to return to its roots now that'd be a bright sleight of hand [Music] um

Channel: FortNine

Views: 1,792,631

Rating: 4.9446311 out of 5

Keywords: indian motorcycles, harley davidson, indian scout, 2020, 2021, indian chieftan, scout bobber, american v-twin cruisers, made in america, best cruisers 2020, best cruiser motorcycles, indian scout bobber review, indian motorcycles review, cinematic, 4k, explained, harley davidson stock, covid19

Id: -ooue7i73zo

Length: 10min 59sec (659 seconds)

Published: Sun Oct 18 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/spenserhicks123]

If f9 made an hour long video about shitty 50cc mopeds I'd watch it, great channel

[u/fidelis-et-elysium]

I’m such an easy sell on bikes, one YouTube video and I want an Indian Scout, beautiful machine! Also, what was the bike he rode off on at the end?

[u/Goallie11]

Another great video with incredible production quality.

I really liked the Scout Bobber when I test rode it, but I couldn't get over the feeling that I was going to fall off the back whenever I accelerated.

[u/poordus]

The editing is always so clever. Love this channel

[u/yellowsquare1980]

Has anyone else noticed he emphasizes the first letter of important words like Jeremy Clarkson does? Also the hand movements and verbal ticks. Not to mention the British style dry jokes.

[u/king_ranch69]

Not a Harley hater but.... if they were well engineered from the factory, how would they make all that money on after market parts where people spend thousands just trying to make the bike run like it should?

[u/Dakooder]

I had a spat with an HD fans while back about their bikes being lackluster for the price. What I don't get is why fans don't expect more from their favorite brand? It's not just HD fans but fans of products and companies in general. This is how companies screw the consumer over. I'm die hard Yamaha and Toyota, but I'm angry the 4Runner is 10 years old with no real improvements and the price keeps raising. I'm upset that Yamaha won't offer paint schemes for the entirety of a models lifetime. Hold your favorite manufacturer accountable! Don't be a stan.

[u/RocketGrouch]

It was obvious before I watched it that the issue was going to be cooling and engine efficiency.

Indian are in this century, and use liquid cooling. That is a ton more efficient than air cooling.

Harley is stuck with air cooling due to their fans demanding "Heritage" even if it means they get low-powered crap that can't be tuned legally (from a pollution point of view) to perform.

[u/inaccurateTempedesc]

It's crazy seeing modded Sportsters putting down 120whp and Harley can't even get 60hp out of it. Hell, Buells were making 90-100hp with the same engine a decade ago.

Also, only mentioning the torque numbers and not horsepower slimy as fuck.